QueenZone discussion #1126911

Yara wrote: People, I'd like to have your opinion on something. Why do porn movies make so much success? Why the search for this kind of thing in the web is so overwhelming? First, let me explain why I find it odd. I've only seen a couple of these videos with friends. I found it so sad...I mean, first, because it's...I mean...sexuality is presented in such an agressive way, I think...and everything is so fake and absolutely out of touch with reality. The women usually do things in these movies that are absolutely degrading, absolutely degrading, really, it's ugly, I don't feel at ease describing it. Ok, that goes for movies in general, all of them are based on illusion and demand us a certain suspension of disbelief. Ok. There are movies in which violence is all that there is and people find it cool. But that still strikes me as odd. I mean...it's sex. I mean...violence, well, in fact there's nothing odd about it, is there? But what...I mean...I ask for people who do enjoy these movies, and I don't want to judge anyone, it's just a doubt: where does the pleasure of seeing it come from? Do men find it attractive to see women playing degraded and submissive roles, often humiliating? Because this is what I saw! I mean...why?

StoneColdClassicQueen wrote: Why are your questions so long??

JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: as the man known locally as the 'Praa Sands porn King' i say "keep it coming" [if you excuse the pun]

Yara wrote: First, let me explain why I find it odd. I've only seen a couple of these videos with friends. I found it so sad...

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Yara wrote: First, let me explain why I find it odd. I've only seen a couple of these videos with friends. I found it so sad...

...but porn is so fuckin' funny! Just the porn audio by itself is funny enough.

Cwazy little thing wrote: I think you should distinguish between "love making" and "fucking" - the former being a deep, sensual thing two people in love do, the latter being more about pure pleasure and gratification,

Poo again wrote: The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed.

Poo again wrote: The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed.

Music Man wrote:

Poo again wrote: The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed.

That doesn't make it a bad thing. Basically, one could rephrase what you said to be, "Firms provide a service to society by fulfilling demands that we otherwise are incapable of fulfilling. They only profit if their product is desirable and harmless (or if the harm is consensual, and only affects the consenting individual)." Greed is inherent to humans. Capitalism is the only system that can properly operate consistently with human nature. It transforms greed into progress, and without greed, our quality of life would be almost naught.

Poo again wrote:

Music Man wrote:

Poo again wrote: The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed.

That doesn't make it a bad thing. Basically, one could rephrase what you said to be, "Firms provide a service to society by fulfilling demands that we otherwise are incapable of fulfilling. They only profit if their product is desirable and harmless (or if the harm is consensual, and only affects the consenting individual)." Greed is inherent to humans. Capitalism is the only system that can properly operate consistently with human nature. It transforms greed into progress, and without greed, our quality of life would be almost naught.

No. The capitalist creates an ideal, not from our demands, but from his own desire for profit. They profit on the twisted and unnatural view of women and sexuality planted in our minds. And claiming that the capitalist system is the only one compatible with the human race is doing exactly what the capitalist wants and expects of you. My friend, you have been brainwashed. I know it's an ugly word, but it's true. The greed of the capitalist will stop at nothing to maximize profits at the expense of the oppressed peoples of the world. It does make it a bad thing. Capitalism is the root of starvation, injustice and poverty in the world.

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Poo again wrote:

Music Man wrote:

Poo again wrote: The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed.

That doesn't make it a bad thing. Basically, one could rephrase what you said to be, "Firms provide a service to society by fulfilling demands that we otherwise are incapable of fulfilling. They only profit if their product is desirable and harmless (or if the harm is consensual, and only affects the consenting individual)." Greed is inherent to humans. Capitalism is the only system that can properly operate consistently with human nature. It transforms greed into progress, and without greed, our quality of life would be almost naught.

No. The capitalist creates an ideal, not from our demands, but from his own desire for profit. They profit on the twisted and unnatural view of women and sexuality planted in our minds. And claiming that the capitalist system is the only one compatible with the human race is doing exactly what the capitalist wants and expects of you. My friend, you have been brainwashed. I know it's an ugly word, but it's true. The greed of the capitalist will stop at nothing to maximize profits at the expense of the oppressed peoples of the world. It does make it a bad thing. Capitalism is the root of starvation, injustice and poverty in the world.

Somehow a capitalist system is what's allowing you to buy a computer and pay for an online connection, just so you can go on a message board and rant against capitalism. There's absolutely nothing wrong with capitalism as long as both buyer and seller are satisfied with making business. My only issue with capitalism are deception tactics. I'm totally against merchants, businesses, and corporations abusing the trust of consumers.

Cwazy little thing wrote: Good lord, I never expected to see such a thing on here! Well, I think porn serves its purpose - and during those barren spells when you're not having sex its a useful aid, haha! Some women like it, and for men its not essential, but it is very useful - men are biologically programmed to work from visual stimulus in these sorts of things, so when its just you and Mrs Hand, its much better than staring at a wall! As for the degrading part, I think theres a few sides to this. Firstly, hardcore porn like that Yara described actually bores me for the reasons Yara and someone else mentioned - its fake and exaggerated, and I dont believe for a second anyone is really enjoying themselves as much as the soundtrack would make out, hehe. Home movies are better, and feature less of the degrading and fakery. However, there is of course some homemade stuff that involves the portrayal of women as submissive, and sex objects. Why? Well first of all - with homemade stuff, its far more likely that its all consensual, and the reason for it is that both the man and woman find their respective roles enjoyable or arousing in some way: in which case, fair enough-as long as no one gets hurt, thats all good in my book. Why are these themes so prevailant in hardcore, and sometimes in homemade stuff? I think its an unfortunate fact that sexually most men are programmed to like to be in control. In fact, not just sexually - generally men like to be in charge. Its all biology - were built to be the big chest thumping male. While this is tempered in a civilised society by respect and equality, during sex, perhaps the most primal thing, often men, to varying degrees are still more aroused when in control, and when a woman is to some extent submissive. It is of course a matter of degree - I doubt many people want to go as far as hardcore porn goes, and of course some people like it the other way, where the woman runs the show like some sort of dominatrix. Or just a balance. Porn is fantasy though - it takes these things as far as they can go, which is fine, because its not real, and its controlled, as long as people remember that, everything is alright. I think you should distinguish between "love making" and "fucking" - the former being a deep, sensual thing two people in love do, the latter being more about pure pleasure and gratification, and that is what porn is about. Dont worry Yara - I believe in a thing called love, and I dont think many people want to have sex like in a porn film. Unless thats what you're into, hehe.

Mr.Jingles wrote: What are doing you here whining about capitalism then? As far I'm concerned there are still a few countries left in the world with a totalitarian communist system, so it's not a complete capitalist world as you can see. An airplane ticket to Cuba or North Korea would be the last time you'd have to give money to a capitalist entity. Then you'll be able to live in a country 100% free of capitalist oppression, where everybody is happy and jolly.

Poo, again wrote: I'd gladly buy a one way ticket to Cuba if I were older and had an income of my own.

Poo, again wrote: You see, the proletarian dictatorship must remain in a communist state to prevent the bourgeosie to work against the proletariat and/or stage a counter-revolution and re-instate oppression. As long as there is a capitalist USA, there will be great injustice and oppression in the world. Remember your embargo against Cuba? That's exactly what I'm talking about.

Poo, again wrote: How much is your freedom worth to the starving child in Africa?

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Poo, again wrote: I'd gladly buy a one way ticket to Cuba if I were older and had an income of my own.

Well good luck! Here you are complaining about capitalism being the sole cause of poverty. Well go to Cuba and see how many people are suffering from poverty in a country where a communist government controls how much of the common basic needs people are allowed to have. link When you get there, I hope you can sneak into the offices of a Cuban official (since they are the only ones that have the freedom to use computers) and tell us how wonderful things are going on in there.

Poo, again wrote: You see, the proletarian dictatorship must remain in a communist state to prevent the bourgeosie to work against the proletariat and/or stage a counter-revolution and re-instate oppression. As long as there is a capitalist USA, there will be great injustice and oppression in the world. Remember your embargo against Cuba? That's exactly what I'm talking about.

So if the USA is wiped off the map capitalism will be over? Need to remind you that many of the largest corporations in the world come from Japan, South Korea, and European nations.

Poo, again wrote: How much is your freedom worth to the starving child in Africa?

Since when is the U.S. to blame for starvation in Africa? As far as I'm concerned African national leaders waging war based on extremist ideologies, lack of education, and corruption are to blame for the great majority of the problems in Africa. Look, you are obviously a naive young person with a mind twisted by views from a single perspective. I don't agree with the way how the current capitalist system works in the U.S. and most nations around the world. It certainly needs to change in order to bring a sense of justice. Individuals should be given the freedom to make a profit, but also not be allowed to abuse the system by deceiving consumers and oppressing workers.

YourValentine wrote: Yara, you should not take the talking of these guys too seriously. In most cases they are immature boys who did not even have proper sex but instead they have a big mouth :-) Tolerance and compromise is all very fine but in a sexual relationship you just do not go beyond your own wishes and desires and a man who loves you won't ask you anything you are not ready to do. If a man does not respect your limits he is the wrong one and not worth another thought. If you are in a loving relationship you will explore your wishes together with your man and there is no pressure and no shame. If you are appalled by a porn movie, there is nothing wrong about that. I do not like porn movies either and most of my female friends feel the same. It's true that sex sells but in a porn movie the actors/actresses sell their bodies and it's not something that turns me on or I would like to watch or even pay for. At best I feel sorry about people who need a porn movie because they do not have a fulfilling sex life. I rather not say what I think about people who produce these movies and make money from them. We all know that the actors often are not allowed to use condoms and HIV is very frequent among porn actors. For me that is an ugly form of slavery and while I am not in favour of censorship I think it's better not to support this ugly business by buying the movies.

Mr Mercury wrote:

StoneColdClassicQueen wrote: Why are your questions so long??

They arent long at all. Yara has just explained her reasons and thoughts behind asking the question, thats all.

Yara wrote:

Cwazy little thing wrote: Good lord, I never expected to see such a thing on here! Well, I think porn serves its purpose - and during those barren spells when you're not having sex its a useful aid, haha! Some women like it, and for men its not essential, but it is very useful - men are biologically programmed to work from visual stimulus in these sorts of things, so when its just you and Mrs Hand, its much better than staring at a wall! As for the degrading part, I think theres a few sides to this. Firstly, hardcore porn like that Yara described actually bores me for the reasons Yara and someone else mentioned - its fake and exaggerated, and I dont believe for a second anyone is really enjoying themselves as much as the soundtrack would make out, hehe. Home movies are better, and feature less of the degrading and fakery. However, there is of course some homemade stuff that involves the portrayal of women as submissive, and sex objects. Why? Well first of all - with homemade stuff, its far more likely that its all consensual, and the reason for it is that both the man and woman find their respective roles enjoyable or arousing in some way: in which case, fair enough-as long as no one gets hurt, thats all good in my book. Why are these themes so prevailant in hardcore, and sometimes in homemade stuff? I think its an unfortunate fact that sexually most men are programmed to like to be in control. In fact, not just sexually - generally men like to be in charge. Its all biology - were built to be the big chest thumping male. While this is tempered in a civilised society by respect and equality, during sex, perhaps the most primal thing, often men, to varying degrees are still more aroused when in control, and when a woman is to some extent submissive. It is of course a matter of degree - I doubt many people want to go as far as hardcore porn goes, and of course some people like it the other way, where the woman runs the show like some sort of dominatrix. Or just a balance. Porn is fantasy though - it takes these things as far as they can go, which is fine, because its not real, and its controlled, as long as people remember that, everything is alright. I think you should distinguish between "love making" and "fucking" - the former being a deep, sensual thing two people in love do, the latter being more about pure pleasure and gratification, and that is what porn is about. Dont worry Yara - I believe in a thing called love, and I dont think many people want to have sex like in a porn film. Unless thats what you're into, hehe.

Good God! Thanks, many thanks for the answer! Well...I see. But, like, as you say, it's all partially rooted in biology. The movies, in a way, excite this side of human nature, so to speak, while other cultural manifestations tend to keep it more under control. Like...do you think, yourself, that if a girl you're in love with, a girl you really like, don't want to do the kinds of thing you see in the movies, like, do you think it's likely that you'd end up doing it with someone else? Now, that's my worry. Because...I mean, judging from what I've seen, AND LISTENING TO BOYS TALK!!!, I get appaled, really. I...really. It's very degrading, very. It's not like they're doing sex and, that's it. It's not even...there are things I can't describe, it's disgusting and ugly, and I listen to men talking or boys talking to each other, and they say things that I saw in these movies, you see? So, that's my worry. Because, of course, in all relantionships, I suppose, both sides have to make concessions and to be tolerant to a great extent. But there's always a limit, isn't there? And I'm afraid that, if the woman who's not much into this puts the limit, the man goes out of the limit with someone else! It's a risk, isn't it? So basically...if you see guys talking...and you see guys talking...like, I feel terrible if I pass by because it's as if the guys regarded us as a sex target, and that's it. Now, of course I want boys to have sex with me. lol I don't want to scare them off! But, now, I don't to be seen as just that...if you see these things, I'm still shocked by the power of the images, I guess, it's too brutal... Now, I'm NOT suggesting it should be censured or anything like that, neither am I being judgemental. I'm just point out my worries. Yes, I agree that what's sad for some, may be funny for others or exciting. I'm by no means putting myself above others or something like that in a moral sense. It's just the way I feel, and people feel differently, it's like humor: what's funny for some may be outrageous for others but that doesn't imply that someone's wrong there. It's very subjective. Now...the thing about the hand and the painting wall was funny. Hahaha. Ok. Well, thanks for the reply. You were great, really. Thanks. *hug*

YourValentine wrote: At best I feel sorry about people who need a porn movie because they do not have a fulfilling sex life. I rather not say what I think about people who produce these movies and make money from them. We all know that the actors often are not allowed to use condoms and HIV is very frequent among porn actors. For me that is an ugly form of slavery and while I am not in favour of censorship I think it's better not to support this ugly business by buying the movies.

StoneColdClassicQueen wrote:

Mr Mercury wrote:

StoneColdClassicQueen wrote: Why are your questions so long??

They arent long at all. Yara has just explained her reasons and thoughts behind asking the question, thats all.

Oh. Well I don't enjoy reading much anymore and all thanks to my stupid 9th grade English teacher.. She sure does a lot of explaining.

JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: for Barb: there was a big campaign about 10-15 years ago in the porn industry [esp here in the UK] to get everyone involved tested on a regular basis for HIV/AIDS and there was for quite some time a regulation that films would not get released unless ALL male participants [i refuse to call them actors] used a condom in every scene. Now,for some reason, things have changed over the last 5-10 years,mainly because using a condom in a film was seen as 'uncool' which just beggers disbelief at how stupid they are if that is true.i remember the interview last year of one porn star that was ORDERED by his director to perform gay sex on film without a condom in an orgy scene and contracted HIV through doing it [there was a big legal claim and it made the national tv news here in the UK]. for Yara [and any other woman for that matter]: if you really want to freak a bloke out who gives the ol' "machismo" act just tell him [to his face] that porn really gets you 'in the mood'.as many of you know i have MANY female friends in the real world and they swear that by saying this the bloke jumps back into his shell quicker than Usain Bolt heading for an 'all-you-can-eat-buffet',as they cant handle the fact that porn gets the woman 'going' better than he does and inveribly the subject is dropped,never to be mentioned again. there are always exceptions though,dont try this ploy with harem masters or they will call your bluff ;-]

Bad Horsie wrote: I DON'T NEED PORN, SHRED SATISFIES ME SEXUALLY. Cheers, Hor

Ms. Rebel wrote:

Bad Horsie wrote: I DON'T NEED PORN, SHRED SATISFIES ME SEXUALLY. Cheers, Hor

LMAO.

Mr.Jingles wrote: So now I'm ignorant and brainwashed because unlike you I don't follow a totalitarian and fascist ideology that brings nothing but oppression to the population. History has taught humanity that neither a totalitarian communist or capitalist ideology works for the benefit of the majority of people. Why do you think that Soviet Union collapsed by itself? Check you history books. Name me one single country living under a communist regime where people are happy and they've have been given enough civil liberties for their own progress. I'm not defending totalitarian capitalism at all. Despite the effort of right wing nut insiders on the US government, a totalitarian capitalist system in the US has never really existed. I agree that there are forces within the government willing to push it, but they haven't been allowed to do so. Still it poses a threat to the nation, and there are still many things that IMO need to be changed to stop corporate machines from gaining more power. Personally I totally oppose a government that allows the wealthy to oppress the lower classes in any way the want, and to make their own rules. I defend the right of individuals to start a business and make a profit while providing fair trade to consumers, paying fair wages to their workers and associates, and pay taxes to a government (that hopefully) will invest in social programs to provide the population with basic needs such as health and education, as well as providing tools to individuals to achieve progress. Now, if you wish to live in a country where despite any efforts to work hard and study, you won't be able to raise your living standards, then go ahead. If you wish to live in a country where you will be persecuted and jailed for disagreeing with the government, then you're more than welcome to leave. Once you move to Cuba, then let's see how much freedom you have to post a message on this board.

Poo, again wrote: I do not really care about your views. In the opinions of myself as well as Marx, you are either with us or against us in overthrowing the bourgeosie. There is no middle ground.

JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: im still trying to work out what Groucho and Harpo have to do with this thread,perhaps they made an incest film together or something?

Mr.Jingles wrote:

Poo, again wrote: I do not really care about your views. In the opinions of myself as well as Marx, you are either with us or against us in overthrowing the bourgeosie. There is no middle ground.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. (Mr.Jingles draws lightsaber) I will do what I must.