Yara 01.09.2008 17:09 |
People, I'd like to have your opinion on something. Why do porn movies make so much success? Why the search for this kind of thing in the web is so overwhelming? First, let me explain why I find it odd. I've only seen a couple of these videos with friends. I found it so sad...I mean, first, because it's...I mean...sexuality is presented in such an agressive way, I think...and everything is so fake and absolutely out of touch with reality. The women usually do things in these movies that are absolutely degrading, absolutely degrading, really, it's ugly, I don't feel at ease describing it. Ok, that goes for movies in general, all of them are based on illusion and demand us a certain suspension of disbelief. Ok. There are movies in which violence is all that there is and people find it cool. But that still strikes me as odd. I mean...it's sex. I mean...violence, well, in fact there's nothing odd about it, is there? But what...I mean...I ask for people who do enjoy these movies, and I don't want to judge anyone, it's just a doubt: where does the pleasure of seeing it come from? Do men find it attractive to see women playing degraded and submissive roles, often humiliating? Because this is what I saw! I mean...why? |
Yara 01.09.2008 17:15 |
And...do you think this kind of movie has any influence whatsoever on the sexual behavior of people in the REAL LIFE? Like...let's suppose some day - unlikely..hehe! - I start dating someone. He becomes my boyfriend. Like...suppose the things are going to get rough, so to speak. Both, me and the boy, are sexually wow...but I like the boy. And then the boy wants do to things with me that he sees in these movies...it'd be nightmare, I'd never make it, even if I were deeply in love! I mean...and...I fear that these things might happen. It's all hypotetical. I don't have a boyfriend and am not dating anyone. But I do think that the way guys approach me sometimes when they do, for some reason I can't explain, feel attraction for me is quite...I mean...they want to have sex, and that's all. That's my impression. It may be a prejudice and have sounded offensive to really kind boys, who want to have sex, for sure, but maybe not only that...like... Is there love? Or is it an invention? |
StoneColdClassicQueen 01.09.2008 18:15 |
Why are your questions so long?? |
Winter Land Man 01.09.2008 18:59 |
Yara wrote: People, I'd like to have your opinion on something. Why do porn movies make so much success? Why the search for this kind of thing in the web is so overwhelming? First, let me explain why I find it odd. I've only seen a couple of these videos with friends. I found it so sad...I mean, first, because it's...I mean...sexuality is presented in such an agressive way, I think...and everything is so fake and absolutely out of touch with reality. The women usually do things in these movies that are absolutely degrading, absolutely degrading, really, it's ugly, I don't feel at ease describing it. Ok, that goes for movies in general, all of them are based on illusion and demand us a certain suspension of disbelief. Ok. There are movies in which violence is all that there is and people find it cool. But that still strikes me as odd. I mean...it's sex. I mean...violence, well, in fact there's nothing odd about it, is there? But what...I mean...I ask for people who do enjoy these movies, and I don't want to judge anyone, it's just a doubt: where does the pleasure of seeing it come from? Do men find it attractive to see women playing degraded and submissive roles, often humiliating? Because this is what I saw! I mean...why?I don't know, I never watched that hardcore stuff much (I once watched a pro porn vid of girls fighting and hitting eachother and then ending up having sex and doing kinky things). But if it's degrading to women, wouldn't it be to men as well (depending on the film)??? And I've read that there's a lot of women who buy these films, and not just gay/bisexual women. Some women like violent kind of things. My opinion is that those videos are so lame. Too fake. I've seen documentary's on those porn films, the men take viagra to keep it hard and working all day, and the women lube themselves up pretty good. Orgams? Fake. They even put make up over their assholes to make it appear perfectly pink. Home videos all the way! |
Mr Mercury 01.09.2008 19:08 |
StoneColdClassicQueen wrote: Why are your questions so long??They arent long at all. Yara has just explained her reasons and thoughts behind asking the question, thats all. |
Music Man 01.09.2008 19:31 |
The questions are short. There are just too many of them, so it's hard to determine the overall point or direction of the conversation. |
Sergei. 01.09.2008 20:36 |
Because the world is full of randy people. |
Matias Merçeauroix 02.09.2008 00:53 |
There are lots of kinds of porn... not just the typical "man" stuff. Not everything is awful and "violent". Cheers, Hor |
JoxerTheDeityPirate 02.09.2008 03:54 |
as the man known locally as the 'Praa Sands porn King' i say "keep it coming" [if you excuse the pun] |
Yara 02.09.2008 07:37 |
JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: as the man known locally as the 'Praa Sands porn King' i say "keep it coming" [if you excuse the pun]Hahaha. Of course I excuse the pun! I missed you so very much, really. I love your sense of humor. :-) *Hug* |
Mr.Jingles 02.09.2008 08:11 |
Yara wrote: First, let me explain why I find it odd. I've only seen a couple of these videos with friends. I found it so sad......but porn is so fuckin' funny! Just the porn audio by itself is funny enough. |
Lady Nyx 02.09.2008 11:26 |
Mr.Jingles wrote:yeah it is XDYara wrote: First, let me explain why I find it odd. I've only seen a couple of these videos with friends. I found it so sad......but porn is so fuckin' funny! Just the porn audio by itself is funny enough. omg i cant watch it cuz i either feel awkward or i just start laughing. the funniest is softcore, since they arent paid enough to actually penetrate, so they hump eachothers stomachs or backs XD i dont feel porn is nessesary. but i guess its like violent video games, instead of taking it out or ruining things on innocent people, keep it at home and get it out of your system XD oh my... |
Cwazy little thing 02.09.2008 11:48 |
Good lord, I never expected to see such a thing on here! Well, I think porn serves its purpose - and during those barren spells when you're not having sex its a useful aid, haha! Some women like it, and for men its not essential, but it is very useful - men are biologically programmed to work from visual stimulus in these sorts of things, so when its just you and Mrs Hand, its much better than staring at a wall! As for the degrading part, I think theres a few sides to this. Firstly, hardcore porn like that Yara described actually bores me for the reasons Yara and someone else mentioned - its fake and exaggerated, and I dont believe for a second anyone is really enjoying themselves as much as the soundtrack would make out, hehe. Home movies are better, and feature less of the degrading and fakery. However, there is of course some homemade stuff that involves the portrayal of women as submissive, and sex objects. Why? Well first of all - with homemade stuff, its far more likely that its all consensual, and the reason for it is that both the man and woman find their respective roles enjoyable or arousing in some way: in which case, fair enough-as long as no one gets hurt, thats all good in my book. Why are these themes so prevailant in hardcore, and sometimes in homemade stuff? I think its an unfortunate fact that sexually most men are programmed to like to be in control. In fact, not just sexually - generally men like to be in charge. Its all biology - were built to be the big chest thumping male. While this is tempered in a civilised society by respect and equality, during sex, perhaps the most primal thing, often men, to varying degrees are still more aroused when in control, and when a woman is to some extent submissive. It is of course a matter of degree - I doubt many people want to go as far as hardcore porn goes, and of course some people like it the other way, where the woman runs the show like some sort of dominatrix. Or just a balance. Porn is fantasy though - it takes these things as far as they can go, which is fine, because its not real, and its controlled, as long as people remember that, everything is alright. I think you should distinguish between "love making" and "fucking" - the former being a deep, sensual thing two people in love do, the latter being more about pure pleasure and gratification, and that is what porn is about. Dont worry Yara - I believe in a thing called love, and I dont think many people want to have sex like in a porn film. Unless thats what you're into, hehe. |
Micrówave 02.09.2008 12:04 |
Cwazy little thing wrote: I think you should distinguish between "love making" and "fucking" - the former being a deep, sensual thing two people in love do, the latter being more about pure pleasure and gratification,You gotta be really good to sell that one... |
Poo, again 02.09.2008 12:36 |
The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed. |
Mr.Jingles 02.09.2008 13:20 |
Poo again wrote: The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed.Anything that has mass appeal sells. People love sex and sensationalism. Combine both and you got yourself a cash making machine. Even anti-capitalism sells. Sony doesn't give two shits about what's on a Rage Against The Machine album as long as people buy it. |
Music Man 02.09.2008 13:25 |
Poo again wrote: The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed.That doesn't make it a bad thing. Basically, one could rephrase what you said to be, "Firms provide a service to society by fulfilling demands that we otherwise are incapable of fulfilling. They only profit if their product is desirable and harmless (or if the harm is consensual, and only affects the consenting individual)." Greed is inherent to humans. Capitalism is the only system that can properly operate consistently with human nature. It transforms greed into progress, and without greed, our quality of life would be almost naught. |
Poo, again 02.09.2008 14:00 |
Music Man wrote:No.Poo again wrote: The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed.That doesn't make it a bad thing. Basically, one could rephrase what you said to be, "Firms provide a service to society by fulfilling demands that we otherwise are incapable of fulfilling. They only profit if their product is desirable and harmless (or if the harm is consensual, and only affects the consenting individual)." Greed is inherent to humans. Capitalism is the only system that can properly operate consistently with human nature. It transforms greed into progress, and without greed, our quality of life would be almost naught. The capitalist creates an ideal, not from our demands, but from his own desire for profit. They profit on the twisted and unnatural view of women and sexuality planted in our minds. And claiming that the capitalist system is the only one compatible with the human race is doing exactly what the capitalist wants and expects of you. My friend, you have been brainwashed. I know it's an ugly word, but it's true. The greed of the capitalist will stop at nothing to maximize profits at the expense of the oppressed peoples of the world. It does make it a bad thing. Capitalism is the root of starvation, injustice and poverty in the world. |
Mr.Jingles 02.09.2008 14:12 |
Poo again wrote:Somehow a capitalist system is what's allowing you to buy a computer and pay for an online connection, just so you can go on a message board and rant against capitalism.Music Man wrote:No. The capitalist creates an ideal, not from our demands, but from his own desire for profit. They profit on the twisted and unnatural view of women and sexuality planted in our minds. And claiming that the capitalist system is the only one compatible with the human race is doing exactly what the capitalist wants and expects of you. My friend, you have been brainwashed. I know it's an ugly word, but it's true. The greed of the capitalist will stop at nothing to maximize profits at the expense of the oppressed peoples of the world. It does make it a bad thing. Capitalism is the root of starvation, injustice and poverty in the world.Poo again wrote: The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed.That doesn't make it a bad thing. Basically, one could rephrase what you said to be, "Firms provide a service to society by fulfilling demands that we otherwise are incapable of fulfilling. They only profit if their product is desirable and harmless (or if the harm is consensual, and only affects the consenting individual)." Greed is inherent to humans. Capitalism is the only system that can properly operate consistently with human nature. It transforms greed into progress, and without greed, our quality of life would be almost naught. There's absolutely nothing wrong with capitalism as long as both buyer and seller are satisfied with making business. My only issue with capitalism are deception tactics and manipulation. I'm totally against merchants, businesses, and corporations abusing the trust of consumers. |
Poo, again 02.09.2008 14:20 |
Mr.Jingles wrote:If you've read Marx you should know that capitalism is the state prior to the revolution of the proletariat, and an absolutely necessary stage in the development of mankind on the path to the socialist utopia.Poo again wrote:Somehow a capitalist system is what's allowing you to buy a computer and pay for an online connection, just so you can go on a message board and rant against capitalism. There's absolutely nothing wrong with capitalism as long as both buyer and seller are satisfied with making business. My only issue with capitalism are deception tactics. I'm totally against merchants, businesses, and corporations abusing the trust of consumers.Music Man wrote:No. The capitalist creates an ideal, not from our demands, but from his own desire for profit. They profit on the twisted and unnatural view of women and sexuality planted in our minds. And claiming that the capitalist system is the only one compatible with the human race is doing exactly what the capitalist wants and expects of you. My friend, you have been brainwashed. I know it's an ugly word, but it's true. The greed of the capitalist will stop at nothing to maximize profits at the expense of the oppressed peoples of the world. It does make it a bad thing. Capitalism is the root of starvation, injustice and poverty in the world.Poo again wrote: The porn industry is simply another product of the capitalist system. Women (and men) are being portrayed in a way that'll make the capitalist money and maximize profits, by presenting strange, rarely achievable and twisted ideals for the masses. Ah, greed.That doesn't make it a bad thing. Basically, one could rephrase what you said to be, "Firms provide a service to society by fulfilling demands that we otherwise are incapable of fulfilling. They only profit if their product is desirable and harmless (or if the harm is consensual, and only affects the consenting individual)." Greed is inherent to humans. Capitalism is the only system that can properly operate consistently with human nature. It transforms greed into progress, and without greed, our quality of life would be almost naught. But of course, you haven't got Marx in America, have you? I have no choice but to live in a world of capitalism, a system that is bound to destroy itself, simply by fulfilling itself. If what you've mentioned above is the only thing that you''ve got against capitalism then you must either be a monster or very ignorant, and I'll go with the latter. |
Mr.Jingles 02.09.2008 14:30 |
What are doing you here whining about capitalism then? As far I'm concerned there are still a few countries left in the world with a totalitarian communist system, so it's not a complete capitalist world as you can see. An airplane ticket to Cuba or North Korea would be the last time you'd have to give money to a capitalist entity. Then you'll be able to live in a country 100% free of capitalist oppression, where everybody is happy and jolly. |
Yara 02.09.2008 14:46 |
Cwazy little thing wrote: Good lord, I never expected to see such a thing on here! Well, I think porn serves its purpose - and during those barren spells when you're not having sex its a useful aid, haha! Some women like it, and for men its not essential, but it is very useful - men are biologically programmed to work from visual stimulus in these sorts of things, so when its just you and Mrs Hand, its much better than staring at a wall! As for the degrading part, I think theres a few sides to this. Firstly, hardcore porn like that Yara described actually bores me for the reasons Yara and someone else mentioned - its fake and exaggerated, and I dont believe for a second anyone is really enjoying themselves as much as the soundtrack would make out, hehe. Home movies are better, and feature less of the degrading and fakery. However, there is of course some homemade stuff that involves the portrayal of women as submissive, and sex objects. Why? Well first of all - with homemade stuff, its far more likely that its all consensual, and the reason for it is that both the man and woman find their respective roles enjoyable or arousing in some way: in which case, fair enough-as long as no one gets hurt, thats all good in my book. Why are these themes so prevailant in hardcore, and sometimes in homemade stuff? I think its an unfortunate fact that sexually most men are programmed to like to be in control. In fact, not just sexually - generally men like to be in charge. Its all biology - were built to be the big chest thumping male. While this is tempered in a civilised society by respect and equality, during sex, perhaps the most primal thing, often men, to varying degrees are still more aroused when in control, and when a woman is to some extent submissive. It is of course a matter of degree - I doubt many people want to go as far as hardcore porn goes, and of course some people like it the other way, where the woman runs the show like some sort of dominatrix. Or just a balance. Porn is fantasy though - it takes these things as far as they can go, which is fine, because its not real, and its controlled, as long as people remember that, everything is alright. I think you should distinguish between "love making" and "fucking" - the former being a deep, sensual thing two people in love do, the latter being more about pure pleasure and gratification, and that is what porn is about. Dont worry Yara - I believe in a thing called love, and I dont think many people want to have sex like in a porn film. Unless thats what you're into, hehe.Good God! Thanks, many thanks for the answer! Well...I see. But, like, as you say, it's all partially rooted in biology. The movies, in a way, excite this side of human nature, so to speak, while other cultural manifestations tend to keep it more under control. Like...do you think, yourself, that if a girl you're in love with, a girl you really like, don't want to do the kinds of thing you see in the movies, like, do you think it's likely that you'd end up doing it with someone else? Now, that's my worry. Because...I mean, judging from what I've seen, AND LISTENING TO BOYS TALK!!!, I get appaled, really. I...really. It's very degrading, very. It's not like they're doing sex and, that's it. It's not even...there are things I can't describe, it's disgusting and ugly, and I listen to men talking or boys talking to each other, and they say things that I saw in these movies, you see? So, that's my worry. Because, of course, in all relantionships, I suppose, both sides have to make concessions and to be tolerant to a great extent. But there's always a limit, isn't there? And I'm afraid that, if the woman who's not much into this puts the limit, the man goes out of the limit with someone else! It's a risk, isn't it? So basically...if you see guys talking...and you see guys talking...like, I feel terrible if I pass by because it's as if the guys regarded us as a sex target, and that's it. Now, of course I want boys to have sex with me. lol I don't want to scare them off! But, now, I don't to be seen as just that...if you see these things, I'm still shocked by the power of the images, I guess, it's too brutal... Now, I'm NOT suggesting it should be censured or anything like that, neither am I being judgemental. I'm just point out my worries. Yes, I agree that what's sad for some, may be funny for others or exciting. I'm by no means putting myself above others or something like that in a moral sense. It's just the way I feel, and people feel differently, it's like humor: what's funny for some may be outrageous for others but that doesn't imply that someone's wrong there. It's very subjective. Now...the thing about the hand and the painting wall was funny. Hahaha. Ok. Well, thanks for the reply. You were great, really. Thanks. *hug* |
Poo, again 02.09.2008 14:49 |
Mr.Jingles wrote: What are doing you here whining about capitalism then? As far I'm concerned there are still a few countries left in the world with a totalitarian communist system, so it's not a complete capitalist world as you can see. An airplane ticket to Cuba or North Korea would be the last time you'd have to give money to a capitalist entity. Then you'll be able to live in a country 100% free of capitalist oppression, where everybody is happy and jolly.Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know this was such a sensitive issue for you! Of course I'll stop "whining" about capitalism, and the injustices such as starvation and poverty that it causes... NOT! For your information, North Korea is not a communist state. It is rather a fascist necrocratic autocracy. Also, I'd gladly buy a one way ticket to Cuba if I were older and had an income of my own. You see, the proletarian dictatorship must remain in a communist state to prevent the bourgeosie to work against the proletariat and/or stage a counter-revolution and re-instate oppression. As long as there is a capitalist USA, there will be great injustice and oppression in the world. Remember your embargo against Cuba? That's exactly what I'm talking about. How much is your freedom worth to the starving child in Africa? |
Poo, again 02.09.2008 14:54 |
Also, Yara, I apologize for straying very off topic. I hope I didn't ruin your thread. |
YourValentine 02.09.2008 15:06 |
Yara, you should not take the talking of these guys too seriously. In most cases they are immature boys who did not even have proper sex but instead they have a big mouth :-) Tolerance and compromise is all very fine but in a sexual relationship you just do not go beyond your own wishes and desires and a man who loves you won't ask you anything you are not ready to do. If a man does not respect your limits he is the wrong one and not worth another thought. If you are in a loving relationship you will explore your wishes together with your man and there is no pressure and no shame. If you are appalled by a porn movie, there is nothing wrong about that. I do not like porn movies either and most of my female friends feel the same. It's true that sex sells but in a porn movie the actors/actresses sell their bodies and it's not something that turns me on or I would like to watch or even pay for. At best I feel sorry about people who need a porn movie because they do not have a fulfilling sex life. I rather not say what I think about people who produce these movies and make money from them. We all know that the actors often are not allowed to use condoms and HIV is very frequent among porn actors. For me that is an ugly form of slavery and while I am not in favour of censorship I think it's better not to support this ugly business by buying the movies. |
Mr.Jingles 02.09.2008 15:28 |
Poo, again wrote: I'd gladly buy a one way ticket to Cuba if I were older and had an income of my own.Well good luck! Here you are complaining about capitalism being the sole cause of poverty. Well go to Cuba and see how many people are suffering from poverty in a country where a communist government controls how much of the common basic needs people are allowed to have. link When you get there, I hope you can sneak into the offices of a Cuban official (since they are the only ones that have the freedom to use computers) and tell us how wonderful things are going on in there. Poo, again wrote: You see, the proletarian dictatorship must remain in a communist state to prevent the bourgeosie to work against the proletariat and/or stage a counter-revolution and re-instate oppression. As long as there is a capitalist USA, there will be great injustice and oppression in the world. Remember your embargo against Cuba? That's exactly what I'm talking about.So if the USA is wiped off the map capitalism will be over? Need to remind you that many of the largest corporations in the world come from Japan, South Korea, and European nations. Poo, again wrote: How much is your freedom worth to the starving child in Africa?Since when is the U.S. to blame for starvation in Africa? As far as I'm concerned African national leaders waging war based on extremist ideologies, lack of education, and corruption are to blame for the great majority of the problems in Africa. Look, you are obviously a naive young person with a mind twisted by views from a single perspective. I don't agree with the way how the current capitalist system works in the U.S. and most nations around the world. It certainly needs to change in order to bring a sense of justice. Individuals should be given the freedom to make a profit, but also not be allowed to abuse the system by deceiving consumers and oppressing workers. |
Poo, again 02.09.2008 15:53 |
Mr.Jingles wrote:Ah, I don't know how many times I'll have to explain this.Poo, again wrote: I'd gladly buy a one way ticket to Cuba if I were older and had an income of my own.Well good luck! Here you are complaining about capitalism being the sole cause of poverty. Well go to Cuba and see how many people are suffering from poverty in a country where a communist government controls how much of the common basic needs people are allowed to have. link When you get there, I hope you can sneak into the offices of a Cuban official (since they are the only ones that have the freedom to use computers) and tell us how wonderful things are going on in there.Poo, again wrote: You see, the proletarian dictatorship must remain in a communist state to prevent the bourgeosie to work against the proletariat and/or stage a counter-revolution and re-instate oppression. As long as there is a capitalist USA, there will be great injustice and oppression in the world. Remember your embargo against Cuba? That's exactly what I'm talking about.So if the USA is wiped off the map capitalism will be over? Need to remind you that many of the largest corporations in the world come from Japan, South Korea, and European nations.Poo, again wrote: How much is your freedom worth to the starving child in Africa?Since when is the U.S. to blame for starvation in Africa? As far as I'm concerned African national leaders waging war based on extremist ideologies, lack of education, and corruption are to blame for the great majority of the problems in Africa. Look, you are obviously a naive young person with a mind twisted by views from a single perspective. I don't agree with the way how the current capitalist system works in the U.S. and most nations around the world. It certainly needs to change in order to bring a sense of justice. Individuals should be given the freedom to make a profit, but also not be allowed to abuse the system by deceiving consumers and oppressing workers. The reason Cuba is poor, is because the bourgeosie will do anything to counter the proletarian revolution. The most obvious form of this is the embargo led by the USA. There will only be true communism when the world unites in revolution against the oppression of the capitalist system. I never said that the USA is the only capitalist puppet in the world, but as long as any of them remain, there will never be an end to poverty and injustice. The entire capitalist system, including it's supporter the USA, is to blame for starvation in Africa. Capitalism walks hand in hand with imperialism, and rests on the fact that Western world steals the natural resources and riches from the lesser developed countries of the southern hemisphere. It all began when America was discovered and the era of colonialism began. It continues today as capitalist interests, and not the people, own the natural resources of many lesser developed countries of the world. Look, you're obviously a very ignorant, and I daresay brainwashed individual, who doesn't know better. Individuals should be given the opportunity to be able to live a decent life first and foremost. I'm sure any starving child in the world would enjoy the freedom to make a profit, though. |
Mr.Jingles 02.09.2008 17:26 |
So now I'm ignorant and brainwashed because unlike you I don't follow a totalitarian and fascist ideology that brings nothing but oppression to the population. History has taught humanity that neither a totalitarian communist or capitalist ideology works for the benefit of the majority of people. Why do you think that Soviet Union collapsed by itself? Check you history books. Name me one single country living under a communist regime where people are happy and they've have been given enough civil liberties for their own progress. I'm not defending totalitarian capitalism at all. Despite the effort of right wing nut insiders on the US government, a totalitarian capitalist system in the US has never really existed. I agree that there are forces within the government willing to push it, but they haven't been allowed to do so. Still it poses a threat to the nation, and there are still many things that IMO need to be changed to stop corporate machines from gaining more power. Personally I totally oppose a government that allows the wealthy to oppress the lower classes in any way the want, and to make their own rules. I defend the right of individuals to start a business and make a profit while providing fair trade to consumers, paying fair wages to their workers and associates, and pay taxes to a government (that hopefully) will invest in social programs to provide the population with basic needs such as health and education, as well as providing tools to individuals to achieve progress. Now, if you wish to live in a country where despite any efforts to work hard and study, you won't be able to raise your living standards, then go ahead. If you wish to live in a country where you will be persecuted and jailed for disagreeing with the government, then you're more than welcome to leave. Once you move to Cuba, then let's see how much freedom you have to post a message on this board. |
StoneColdClassicQueen 02.09.2008 19:28 |
YourValentine wrote: Yara, you should not take the talking of these guys too seriously. In most cases they are immature boys who did not even have proper sex but instead they have a big mouth :-) Tolerance and compromise is all very fine but in a sexual relationship you just do not go beyond your own wishes and desires and a man who loves you won't ask you anything you are not ready to do. If a man does not respect your limits he is the wrong one and not worth another thought. If you are in a loving relationship you will explore your wishes together with your man and there is no pressure and no shame. If you are appalled by a porn movie, there is nothing wrong about that. I do not like porn movies either and most of my female friends feel the same. It's true that sex sells but in a porn movie the actors/actresses sell their bodies and it's not something that turns me on or I would like to watch or even pay for. At best I feel sorry about people who need a porn movie because they do not have a fulfilling sex life. I rather not say what I think about people who produce these movies and make money from them. We all know that the actors often are not allowed to use condoms and HIV is very frequent among porn actors. For me that is an ugly form of slavery and while I am not in favour of censorship I think it's better not to support this ugly business by buying the movies.Exactly! Wow, I learn something new everyday. :D Thanks for the info. |
StoneColdClassicQueen 02.09.2008 19:30 |
Mr Mercury wrote:Oh. Well I don't enjoy reading much anymore and all thanks to my stupid 9th grade English teacher..StoneColdClassicQueen wrote: Why are your questions so long??They arent long at all. Yara has just explained her reasons and thoughts behind asking the question, thats all. She sure does a lot of explaining. |
Cwazy little thing 02.09.2008 20:24 |
Yara wrote:Hey Yara, I'll reply to your answer since it was most directly in response to mine, but I'd like to point out that I agree with most of YourValentine's sentiments above. Very sensible words.Cwazy little thing wrote: Good lord, I never expected to see such a thing on here! Well, I think porn serves its purpose - and during those barren spells when you're not having sex its a useful aid, haha! Some women like it, and for men its not essential, but it is very useful - men are biologically programmed to work from visual stimulus in these sorts of things, so when its just you and Mrs Hand, its much better than staring at a wall! As for the degrading part, I think theres a few sides to this. Firstly, hardcore porn like that Yara described actually bores me for the reasons Yara and someone else mentioned - its fake and exaggerated, and I dont believe for a second anyone is really enjoying themselves as much as the soundtrack would make out, hehe. Home movies are better, and feature less of the degrading and fakery. However, there is of course some homemade stuff that involves the portrayal of women as submissive, and sex objects. Why? Well first of all - with homemade stuff, its far more likely that its all consensual, and the reason for it is that both the man and woman find their respective roles enjoyable or arousing in some way: in which case, fair enough-as long as no one gets hurt, thats all good in my book. Why are these themes so prevailant in hardcore, and sometimes in homemade stuff? I think its an unfortunate fact that sexually most men are programmed to like to be in control. In fact, not just sexually - generally men like to be in charge. Its all biology - were built to be the big chest thumping male. While this is tempered in a civilised society by respect and equality, during sex, perhaps the most primal thing, often men, to varying degrees are still more aroused when in control, and when a woman is to some extent submissive. It is of course a matter of degree - I doubt many people want to go as far as hardcore porn goes, and of course some people like it the other way, where the woman runs the show like some sort of dominatrix. Or just a balance. Porn is fantasy though - it takes these things as far as they can go, which is fine, because its not real, and its controlled, as long as people remember that, everything is alright. I think you should distinguish between "love making" and "fucking" - the former being a deep, sensual thing two people in love do, the latter being more about pure pleasure and gratification, and that is what porn is about. Dont worry Yara - I believe in a thing called love, and I dont think many people want to have sex like in a porn film. Unless thats what you're into, hehe.Good God! Thanks, many thanks for the answer! Well...I see. But, like, as you say, it's all partially rooted in biology. The movies, in a way, excite this side of human nature, so to speak, while other cultural manifestations tend to keep it more under control. Like...do you think, yourself, that if a girl you're in love with, a girl you really like, don't want to do the kinds of thing you see in the movies, like, do you think it's likely that you'd end up doing it with someone else? Now, that's my worry. Because...I mean, judging from what I've seen, AND LISTENING TO BOYS TALK!!!, I get appaled, really. I...really. It's very degrading, very. It's not like they're doing sex and, that's it. It's not even...there are things I can't describe, it's disgusting and ugly, and I listen to men talking or boys talking to each other, and they say things that I saw in these movies, you see? So, that's my worry. Because, of course, in all relantionships, I suppose, both sides have to make concessions and to be tolerant to a great extent. But there's always a limit, isn't there? And I'm afraid that, if the woman who's not much into this puts the limit, the man goes out of the limit with someone else! It's a risk, isn't it? So basically...if you see guys talking...and you see guys talking...like, I feel terrible if I pass by because it's as if the guys regarded us as a sex target, and that's it. Now, of course I want boys to have sex with me. lol I don't want to scare them off! But, now, I don't to be seen as just that...if you see these things, I'm still shocked by the power of the images, I guess, it's too brutal... Now, I'm NOT suggesting it should be censured or anything like that, neither am I being judgemental. I'm just point out my worries. Yes, I agree that what's sad for some, may be funny for others or exciting. I'm by no means putting myself above others or something like that in a moral sense. It's just the way I feel, and people feel differently, it's like humor: what's funny for some may be outrageous for others but that doesn't imply that someone's wrong there. It's very subjective. Now...the thing about the hand and the painting wall was funny. Hahaha. Ok. Well, thanks for the reply. You were great, really. Thanks. *hug* I think the key is in the word you used a few times in that post - "Boys". Its a maturity thing - some boys love to talk a big game and are prone to talking nonesense - especially in front of their friends, but it is almost always a show to seen impressive and macho. No - this is not what men want at all, on the whole. Of course, everyone has their own personal limits, and it comes down to what you feel comfortable with. My advice is to be open minded, but as soon as you dont feel comfortable, dont feel you should go any further. You'll probably find that the more you are with someone, the more things you'll be interested in trying with them - its partially a trust thing. But, a bit of harmless fun roleplaying aside, you should never feel degraded. My male perspective is that no, women are not just sex objects. They are a million things and more - sure, sometimes sex is something that is important and at the forefront of your mind, but any man who loses sight of the person is not worth your time, or anyone elses time. In any relationship there is a risk the other person might go elsewhere, so it comes down to trust, compromise and communication if you ask me. Just be willing to talk about these things and explain your limit, and be open minded. I believe as long as two people love each other, and get along and communicate, you give yourself the best chance that you'll be ok. You seem like a very nice person - any man who goes elsewhere because you set a reasonable limit is a fool, and not someone you should want to be with in the first place. I think there are lots of good people out there who are better than that, and Im sure you wouldnt have this problem with someone like that. *hug* for you too! :) Take care. |
Cwazy little thing 02.09.2008 20:41 |
YourValentine wrote: At best I feel sorry about people who need a porn movie because they do not have a fulfilling sex life. I rather not say what I think about people who produce these movies and make money from them. We all know that the actors often are not allowed to use condoms and HIV is very frequent among porn actors. For me that is an ugly form of slavery and while I am not in favour of censorship I think it's better not to support this ugly business by buying the movies.With lots of respect for most of what you're saying, I dont think anyone "needs" porn unless they have a problem, but does anyone need chocolate? They serve similar puposes - they fulfill a desire of some sort - its just something you want. When you're not in a relationship or sleeping around (not something I do), you dont have any sex life, let alone a fulfilling one, so unless you object to masturbation (which I suppose you might) I dont see why you would object to some sort of stimulus to aid that purpose. I'd also like to say that western porn at the very least is quite stringently regulated, and the stuff which sells loads and has a big market does not involve the kind of slavery of which you speak at all - it really is people in it because they enjoy it, and they can be well paid if they work at it. Yes, there is probably an underground market where things are far less controlled, but this is not the mainstream or the norm. As for this "not allowed to use condoms" and AIDS issue - again, in the mainstream market all the actors have to undergo regular STD tests, and are not allowed to make these films unless they have done so, and are clear. It is only on those conditions that no condoms are used (again I recognise there maybe an underground market with less regulation). "The porn industry" as most people recognise it in Western Europe and the US is quite well controlled. It isnt the big bad beastie some would have you believe - it gets a bad rep from people who dont know too much about it because of the controversial subject matter. |
Music Man 02.09.2008 21:23 |
Cwazy is correct about the porn industry. In fact, if you had a room of 10 porn stars and 10 regular people, and you had to choose one of them to have sex with, you're much better off (from an STD standpoint) with the porn stars. |
john bodega 02.09.2008 21:41 |
Everybody in this thread, get fucking. Go crazy; get your fucking gear off and let's go for it right now. We'll do it in front of Treasure Moment's house; hell he can join in. No no wait - we'll turn his GIG in front of thousands of people into a massive fucking orgy. Fuck fuck fuckety fuck fuck pants! All over the place. *ahem* Anyway, I'd like to venture my sincere opinion. Lesbian porn is awesome. Consenting females + baby oil + fuckmeboots = great viewing. No look, honestly.... a lot of porn makes me feel uncomfortable. Especially the stuff where you can tell one (or more) of the 'actors' are drugged out of their heads. I don't like that. It genuinely makes me feel bad; sure, maybe they're as high as a kite and don't give a shit that they're being rammed in three holes at once, but for me personally.. I don't like watching people have to get out of their brains to do something. I hear tell that there's no porn industry in Perth, though. As a failed wannabe filmmaker, I've got to say I would really like to start such an industry down here. I'd like to do it right, though. It would be really fun to do arty films, and use couples as opposed to the biggest cocks/tits I can find. *ahem* I'm on the verge of not posting this, it makes absolutely no sense and I'm probably going to get unwanted spam from morons again. Fuck it, I'll just go with my original statement. Fuck each other, go crazy. I'm personally on my way to every Queenzoner's house right now with a 20 inch dildo; except for Jake and Yara. There are some things you just don't want to catch. Fuck in the streets people, and if there's a camera there, so much the better. |
YourValentine 03.09.2008 03:16 |
@ Cwazy little thing I do not "object" to using any stimulus, my point is that you do not need it when you are in a sexual relationship just as you do not need McDonalds when you have the chance to get regular, tasty meals. That does not mean McVomit should be closed. It's not a moral issue for me at all, just a matter of taste. I also do not object to masturbation at all, why should I? Mainly I wanted to make the point that a young girl should not feel frightened by hard corn porn movies thinking this is what you have to do if you want to make your sex partner happy. As to the AIDS issue, I am sure I did not dream this up. I remember seeing a movie about the issue and when I google "AIDS + porn actors" I get 200 000 results, for example this one: Porn actors worry as AIDS spreads in industry Main Category: HIV / AIDS Article Date: 02 May 2004 - 0:00 PDT As AIDS spreads in the porn industry in the USA, actors worry and ask for improved health care, more pay and better schedules. Many porn industry actors are attempting to unionise. Earlier on this week a group of 35 actors had a private meeting. Every single one of them voted to draw up a list of demands and a bill of rights for people who work in the porn industry. The porn industry in the USA is a large employer and a huge earner. The actors are arranging for more meetings where they will discuss health care provision, pay and scheduling. According to a report in the Los Angeles Times, porn industry actors are paid either per scene or per day, there is not overtime pay. On some occasions they have to work 20 hours in one single day. So far three people have tested positive for AIDS, the first one being Darren James. The industry in California has closed down voluntarily for two months. Porn actors in the USA tried to unionise in 1993 and 1998 and failed. It is said that this AIDS outbreak originated in Brazil where Darren James played scenes without a condom. However, Brazilian porn industry actors (in Brazil) have expressed concern that the American porn industry actually films sexual scenes without the actors wearing condoms. Apparently, this habit of not wearing condoms when shooting scenes is more common in the USA porn industry than the Brazilian industry. link |
Matias Merçeauroix 03.09.2008 03:38 |
I DON'T NEED PORN, SHRED SATISFIES ME SEXUALLY. Cheers, Hor |
JoxerTheDeityPirate 03.09.2008 04:23 |
for Barb: there was a big campaign about 10-15 years ago in the porn industry [esp here in the UK] to get everyone involved tested on a regular basis for HIV/AIDS and there was for quite some time a regulation that films would not get released unless ALL male participants [i refuse to call them actors] used a condom in every scene. Now,for some reason, things have changed over the last 5-10 years,mainly because using a condom in a film was seen as 'uncool' which just beggers disbelief at how stupid they are if that is true.i remember the interview last year of one porn star that was ORDERED by his director to perform gay sex on film without a condom in an orgy scene and contracted HIV through doing it [there was a big legal claim and it made the national tv news here in the UK]. for Yara [and any other woman for that matter]: if you really want to freak a bloke out who gives the ol' "machismo" act just tell him [to his face] that porn really gets you 'in the mood'.as many of you know i have MANY female friends in the real world and they swear that by saying this the bloke jumps back into his shell quicker than Usain Bolt heading for an 'all-you-can-eat-buffet',as they cant handle the fact that porn gets the woman 'going' better than he does and inveribly the subject is dropped,never to be mentioned again. there are always exceptions though,dont try this ploy with harem masters or they will call your bluff ;-] |
Mr Mercury 03.09.2008 08:09 |
StoneColdClassicQueen wrote:As far as I can see your understanding of English is perfectly fine. Infact it is better than a lot of so called English speakers to be honest.Mr Mercury wrote:Oh. Well I don't enjoy reading much anymore and all thanks to my stupid 9th grade English teacher.. She sure does a lot of explaining.StoneColdClassicQueen wrote: Why are your questions so long??They arent long at all. Yara has just explained her reasons and thoughts behind asking the question, thats all. What I meant in my response was that, sometimes someone can put something over as if it was a question, but in actual fact it really isnt. An example would be this: - you just happen to do something, anything, then you stop and say to yourself, "Why did I do that?". Now you would invariably know the answer to the question therefore making it a non-question and more of statement. This is what I see Yara doing here. Her initial post seems to be about why some people seem to enjoy porn and yet she doesnt. And by doing so in this way, it isnt really a question, but it is designed to try and invoke a response from people. |
its_a_hard_life 26994 03.09.2008 08:52 |
From porno to communists to porno.... XD |
Yara 03.09.2008 10:15 |
JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: for Barb: there was a big campaign about 10-15 years ago in the porn industry [esp here in the UK] to get everyone involved tested on a regular basis for HIV/AIDS and there was for quite some time a regulation that films would not get released unless ALL male participants [i refuse to call them actors] used a condom in every scene. Now,for some reason, things have changed over the last 5-10 years,mainly because using a condom in a film was seen as 'uncool' which just beggers disbelief at how stupid they are if that is true.i remember the interview last year of one porn star that was ORDERED by his director to perform gay sex on film without a condom in an orgy scene and contracted HIV through doing it [there was a big legal claim and it made the national tv news here in the UK]. for Yara [and any other woman for that matter]: if you really want to freak a bloke out who gives the ol' "machismo" act just tell him [to his face] that porn really gets you 'in the mood'.as many of you know i have MANY female friends in the real world and they swear that by saying this the bloke jumps back into his shell quicker than Usain Bolt heading for an 'all-you-can-eat-buffet',as they cant handle the fact that porn gets the woman 'going' better than he does and inveribly the subject is dropped,never to be mentioned again. there are always exceptions though,dont try this ploy with harem masters or they will call your bluff ;-]Hahaha. Thanks. You're fun, Joxer, and very kind. Now, I don't think I'm going to adopt this strategy because if the boy calls my bluff, I'm really...f***** :D I wanna thank you all!, YourValentine, Cwazy (why Cwazy!?) Little Thing (it really, well, it was a very thoughtful and, I think, honest, answer, thank you, it helped a lot), Joxer, Mr. Mercury, Zebonka12, MusicMan, Bad Horsie (you're fun!) and, yes!!, Mr. Jingles and Poo Again - I was the one who wrote "Industry" there, and porn sells, of course, and what it sells is, well, controversial, so it's just natural that the debate wouldn't be confined to sexual behavior. :op Now... *hug* :-) |
Ms. Rebel 03.09.2008 10:21 |
Bad Horsie wrote: I DON'T NEED PORN, SHRED SATISFIES ME SEXUALLY. Cheers, HorLMAO. |
Matias Merçeauroix 03.09.2008 12:26 |
Ms. Rebel wrote:Oh yeah, babyBad Horsie wrote: I DON'T NEED PORN, SHRED SATISFIES ME SEXUALLY. Cheers, HorLMAO. ;) Cheers, Hor |
Poo, again 03.09.2008 12:45 |
Mr.Jingles wrote: So now I'm ignorant and brainwashed because unlike you I don't follow a totalitarian and fascist ideology that brings nothing but oppression to the population. History has taught humanity that neither a totalitarian communist or capitalist ideology works for the benefit of the majority of people. Why do you think that Soviet Union collapsed by itself? Check you history books. Name me one single country living under a communist regime where people are happy and they've have been given enough civil liberties for their own progress. I'm not defending totalitarian capitalism at all. Despite the effort of right wing nut insiders on the US government, a totalitarian capitalist system in the US has never really existed. I agree that there are forces within the government willing to push it, but they haven't been allowed to do so. Still it poses a threat to the nation, and there are still many things that IMO need to be changed to stop corporate machines from gaining more power. Personally I totally oppose a government that allows the wealthy to oppress the lower classes in any way the want, and to make their own rules. I defend the right of individuals to start a business and make a profit while providing fair trade to consumers, paying fair wages to their workers and associates, and pay taxes to a government (that hopefully) will invest in social programs to provide the population with basic needs such as health and education, as well as providing tools to individuals to achieve progress. Now, if you wish to live in a country where despite any efforts to work hard and study, you won't be able to raise your living standards, then go ahead. If you wish to live in a country where you will be persecuted and jailed for disagreeing with the government, then you're more than welcome to leave. Once you move to Cuba, then let's see how much freedom you have to post a message on this board.*sigh* Somtimes I wonder if there's even a point in arguing with the most ignorant of fools. As, I've explained in my previous posts, there will only be true and final communism when the oppressed peoples of the world unite in a global revolution. I've also previously explained the reason for the necessity of the proletarian dictatorship, and among other things the reason why proletarian dictatorships generally are poorer than Western capitalist systems. I do not really care about your views. In the opinions of myself as well as Marx, you are either with us or against us in overthrowing the bourgeosie. There is no middle ground. You may go back and read these posts anytime you like, as I don't wish to waste any more of my time typing to you what I've already explained. However, should you contribute something new to this debate, I'll gladly reply. |
Music Man 03.09.2008 13:37 |
*Someone* is expressing severe ignorance in this thread, and it's not Mr. Jingles. Maybe it's the person who is committed to an outdated doctrine, which most experts can and will agree is simply "wrong." |
Mr.Jingles 03.09.2008 14:00 |
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Mr.Jingles 03.09.2008 14:01 |
Poo, again wrote: I do not really care about your views. In the opinions of myself as well as Marx, you are either with us or against us in overthrowing the bourgeosie. There is no middle ground.Only a Sith deals in absolutes. (Mr.Jingles draws lightsaber) I will do what I must. |
JoxerTheDeityPirate 03.09.2008 14:33 |
im still trying to work out what Groucho and Harpo have to do with this thread,perhaps they made an incest film together or something? |
Yara 03.09.2008 15:24 |
JoxerTheDeityPirate wrote: im still trying to work out what Groucho and Harpo have to do with this thread,perhaps they made an incest film together or something?Pirates have an axe to grind in this question. They're all capitalist, even though the Queen keeps most of the treasure. ;-) |
Poo, again 03.09.2008 16:05 |
Damn, I just smoked a hell of a lot of htis shit!1111! |
Cwazy little thing 03.09.2008 19:51 |
Mr.Jingles wrote:This is perhaps the most important sentiment to come out of the star wars prequels, and very true.Poo, again wrote: I do not really care about your views. In the opinions of myself as well as Marx, you are either with us or against us in overthrowing the bourgeosie. There is no middle ground.Only a Sith deals in absolutes. (Mr.Jingles draws lightsaber) I will do what I must. Nicely used. And it made me laugh out loud in my room aswell, haha! But that aside - I dont particularly side with either of you in terms of your political assessmesnts, however, Im completely against anyone with a with us or against us type view - that signals a complete lack of tolerance, which is something the world could use a massive dose of. So yes, we must defeat the sith, and restore peace and justice to the galaxy. |