QueenZone discussion #974164

CMU HistoryGirl wrote: The fact that no one...not ONE PERSON in the entire administration thought about long term effects makes me very nervous, as was unfortunately what I thought would happen right from the day that Bush announced he was running back in 1999.

Mr.Jingles wrote:

CMU HistoryGirl wrote: The fact that no one...not ONE PERSON in the entire administration thought about long term effects makes me very nervous, as was unfortunately what I thought would happen right from the day that Bush announced he was running back in 1999.

Colin Powell was the only one with brains in that administration, and the only one who strongly adviced against the long term effects of invading Iraq. Turns out to be that within the Bush administration you're either part of their narrow minded and extremist mentality, or they'll find a way for you to quit or be forced to resign.

YourValentine wrote: It's a shame that the Bush regime turned the former role model of a democracy into a tyranny where international law is not respected, war crimes and crimes against humanity are common and torture a daily business. It's an even greater shame that not only the people of the USA but the whole Western world watches this ongoing killing in Iraq with an unbelievable indifference. We are all guilty of watching and ignoring the daily mudering in Iraq and the torturing and illegal imprisonment of people in Guantanamo Bay. Benjamin Ferencz, former prosecutor of the Nazis in the Nuernberg trials said on German TV that Guantanamo will forever be linked with the USA as is Ausschwitz with Germany. He called Bush, Rumsfeld and others war criminals who must be held accountable for their actions. Visit his website, he is one voice of reason to be listened to. He said that even the Nazis had a fair triial and that the rule of law can never be given up or we are no better than Saddam Hussein. Michael Ratner from the Center for Constitutional Rights in New York has filed charges against Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales, George Tenet and a dozen of other high profile US administration and miltary officials for committing war crimes and crimes against humanity to the Federal Public Prosecutor in Germany. In Germany law requires that all crimes against humanity have to be prosecuted, no matter who committed them and where. Fat chance that anything comes out of it but at least they cannot look away anymore. We all can take action and raise our voices against the war in Iraq and the concentration camp in Guantanamo Bay. - outside the USA write a letter or email to your US embassy and demand that the war crimes have to end. Tell them you expect the USA to return to the rule of law and to stop violating international law. Tell them you expect the USA to work on a fair solution for Iraq with the help of all countries who can actually help. Demand that Guantanamo is closed. Tell your friends to do the same - if you are a US citizen - email the President of the United States. Tell him you do not approve of the violations of Human Rights and demand that international law is being observed again. Tell him you want Guantanamo closed. Tell him you expect that the administration makes a genuine effort to find peace in Iraq with the help of the UN and all countries who can help. Tell your friends to do the same and to encourage their own friends to do the same. Phone your Congress representaive and tell him the same. For help and guidance visit the Amnesty International website - current actions USA.

CMU HistoryGirl wrote: Leaving all of these refugees to their own devices and the winds of fate is only going to breed more anti-US sentiment and more terrorism in the future, and then the members of the administration will sit around, scratching their heads and wondering where all these new terrorists come from and why they hate us so much.

Mr.Jingles wrote:

CMU HistoryGirl wrote: The fact that no one...not ONE PERSON in the entire administration thought about long term effects makes me very nervous, as was unfortunately what I thought would happen right from the day that Bush announced he was running back in 1999.

Colin Powell was the only one with brains in that administration, and the only one who strongly adviced against the long term effects of invading Iraq.

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: The point about the term 'libertarian' is that it can mean anything from 'anarcho-syndicalist' to 'ultra-nationalist neo-nazi' (the latter goes for the Dutch Libertarian Party, which, thank god, has no seats in the House or Senate).

Sherwood Forest wrote:

joxerthemighty wrote: just seen on the news that the democrats have won the senate vote on the withdraw of troops by oct 2008 but it looks as if bush will veto the vote making it null n void.

<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote:

Sherwood Forest wrote:

I agree.

Lisser wrote: For what it's worth, I did email the President and asked him to end the violation of human rights and to find peace in Iraq. I also asked that he ensure that his adminstration work with other countries that are in the UN to resolve the issues in Iraq as well as Guantanamo Bay. I plan on sending him the same email at least once a week.

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:

Lisser wrote: For what it's worth, I did email the President and asked him to end the violation of human rights and to find peace in Iraq. I also asked that he ensure that his adminstration work with other countries that are in the UN to resolve the issues in Iraq as well as Guantanamo Bay. I plan on sending him the same email at least once a week.

The e-mail won't reach the guy. It'll end up being deleted by *anonymous henchman #35 in charge of mail"

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

joxerthemighty wrote: just seen on the news that the democrats have won the senate vote on the withdraw of troops by oct 2008 but it looks as if bush will veto the vote making it null n void.

Gee, I didn't see that one coming. Nothing is going to happen in the US until someone else is elected. Anything voted for by the Dems will just get vetoed by Dubya.

CMU HistoryGirl wrote:

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

joxerthemighty wrote: just seen on the news that the democrats have won the senate vote on the withdraw of troops by oct 2008 but it looks as if bush will veto the vote making it null n void.

Gee, I didn't see that one coming. Nothing is going to happen in the US until someone else is elected. Anything voted for by the Dems will just get vetoed by Dubya.

It doesn't have to pass. They know that he will veto it. They just want to pass it so that they can put the message out there, to the national as well as the international community, that Dubya doesn't speak for everyone, and we (congress) don't agree with what he's doing and are trying to stop it. (Granted they could try a hell of a lot harder, but let's not get too optimistic)

CMU HistoryGirl wrote: It doesn't have to pass. They know that he will veto it. They just want to pass it so that they can put the message out there, to the national as well as the international community, that Dubya doesn't speak for everyone, and we (congress) don't agree with what he's doing and are trying to stop it.

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: It's called a borderline autocracy, that hopefully will end in about a year.

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: However, shortly after the French Revolution that STARTED it, it degenerated from *perception* to *deception*, which is how it remains to this day.

Zeni wrote:

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: However, shortly after the French Revolution that STARTED it, it degenerated from *perception* to *deception*, which is how it remains to this day.

Representative democracy in the United States predates the French Revolution. No clue what you mean by "STARTED it." And people who claim that our government is in tatters and needs fixing rarely look at the longterm history of the US. Six years of single party rule, or "autocracy" as some might claim, is nothing compared to other eras in our history. We rebounded then, we'll rebound again. Rumors of our government's demise, to paraphrase Twain, have been greatly exaggerated.

<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: However, in the last two decades of the 19th century, the Republicans started siding with the monopolists more and more, and were installing more and more systems of protectionism. The Northern Democrats and the liberalist Republicans then formed the modern Democratic party against them, now finding allies in the rest of the population apart from the monopolists and the elite. The Republican party has since been mostly an authoritarian party, and the Democratic party a liberal one.

CMU HistoryGirl wrote: Thank you, Zeni Caspar, you give the French Revolution too much credit. Just in case you forgot, Americans remained OUT of that revolution even before The Terror started, because we were too busy trying to make sure things were going to survive at home. The French Revolution had a huge impact on Europe....but almost none on the US. And for the record...nothing of international importance from the 30's to the 60's? Give me a break.

CMU HistoryGirl wrote: Caspar, 6) [Nixon] built the modern republican party (again, good or bad, but it's important)

Zeni wrote:

CMU HistoryGirl wrote: Caspar, 6) [Nixon] built the modern republican party (again, good or bad, but it's important)

It should also be pointed out that a certain Democratic governor heavily influenced Nixon's thinking in the early-1970s. But that doesn't really play into Caspar's overall thesis too well.