QueenZone discussion #583636

Mr.Jingles79 wrote: I don't think Brian refered to citizens of the UK and the USA as evil, but rather their governments.

Lord Blackadder wrote: All that don't say this and don't say that is shite. Say what you want. I'm sick of one set of people being allowed to do one thing and the rest of us not being allowed to do anything. Did you guys know that last year during Euro 2004 English people wern't allowed to fly the English flag or the Union Jack incase it offended non-British people. I mean what the fuck is that? We are in Britain. If I want to fly the flag of England in support of our football team then should I not be allowed? If I wanted to fly the English flag any day I should be allowed. If you are offended by the flag of the country you live in then get the fuck out. Everytime a non-Muslim says something to a Muslim that is un-friendly for whatever reason then they are deemed racist, but a Muslim can say whatever they want and they get away with it incase the police get accused of being racist. Seriously, that's what England is like nowadays. A fucked up Government who make up silly rules 'coz they can. But the worst thing is, the best choice for Government is the one in power. They are all shite. I've got myself worked up now.

BHM 0271 wrote: ...and the American governments arrogance and disrespect to most things not American...

coops wrote: I think we all get fraustrated because we are afraid a little and do no understand the mentality of cold blooded killers any more than we do people who for example molest and kill children. We need concrete reasons. Accepting that people are just evil is hard.

coops wrote: You are right, sometimes things do come back and haunt us. That happens in out own lives but does it mean we deserve it?

coops wrote: Read his comments this morning on his views of how we are of the bad guys ( I should have have known we deserve to die) and wanted to ger a little understanding myself. I live in the USA by the way and despite what he says,...a climate of fear, which, sadly, the U.S.A. is already experiencing...is not true. I think we all get fraustrated because we are afraid a little and do no understand the mentality of cold blooded killers any more than we do people who for example molest and kill children. We need concrete reasons. Accepting that people are just evil is hard. want to see our politicians answer the question 'Why?' Why do people hate us this much? What can we do to change this? It's no use thinking we are dealing with a small bunch of maniacs, as seems to be the popular view, who need to be 'stamped out.' I have a few tips that may help: 1. NEVER say anything that may be even remotly offensive to islam. Do not even show negative news on tv. They hate this. Check out Rushdie or the Dutch filmaker that was murdered. 2. Make music that is only pleasing to god 3. Teach Islam in the schools. If we are evil than we must try to be like them and show we are not. 4.Talking of how we are perceived of a s greedy, how much are you worth Brian? Or is that different? 5. Pay $500 for a barrel of oil. That is what Bin Laden said we should be doing. Sell it to the infidels but make them pay. 6. Take out all westerners from the middle east, no matter who they are or what they do. Laden has stated clearly that we do not belong there. We are the infidel. 7. Continue with humanitarian aid and increase it as much as we can afford. They may hate us but we have to show we are better and continue to send them money. 8. Remove troops from Bosnia. If the slaugher continues, well the terrorists can step in and help. Like they give a damm about their own people anyway. 9.Do NOT develop electric cars. If we do not need oil, these people have NOTHING, and that would be hatefull on our behalf right? Look, I could go on and I respect Brians views, but it is a relativly small percentage of people who want to do us harm. Do you really want to change your way of live out of fear, and hope they leave you alone until the next time they want something. While not perfect, do you really think the USA and England is evil? If so, how could you live there? Must be non-evil places you can be. Lastly, knowing what Sadam was doing to his people (women and children) daily, do you not think it's evil to do nothing? "What a shame, we will do a concert and send money". But they still die. Singing kumbaya and hoping does not make dictators go away and does not relieve most of the worlds suffering. never has, probably never will.

gr8kingrat wrote: Brian is a tool

BHM 0271 wrote: I think your comment about living in the USA explains a lot, coops. Americans, on the whole (I'm Canadian, with family living in the US), are the most insular people on earth.
Yeah, you dirty Americans!! LOL. Learn from others:
France, for example, was and is totally against the war on terror. It praises dialogue, love and peace. And now...they're closing their borders!!
Spain: they suffered an atrocious attack to civilians. The day after, the great majority of people votes for the Government who opposed the war on terror! So now attacks are ruled out, having done what Bin Laden suggested...
I call this being coward and hypocrit.
I prefer the mistakes of the Americans to the ambiguities of the so called pacifist countries. If they hate America and the UK so much, why the hell don't they break off diplomatic and commercial ties and just enjoy the remaining parts of the world?

Fairy wrote:

coops wrote: Read his comments this morning on his views of how we are of the bad guys ( I should have have known we deserve to die) and wanted to ger a little understanding myself. I live in the USA by the way and despite what he says,...a climate of fear, which, sadly, the U.S.A. is already experiencing...is not true. I think we all get fraustrated because we are afraid a little and do no understand the mentality of cold blooded killers any more than we do people who for example molest and kill children. We need concrete reasons. Accepting that people are just evil is hard. want to see our politicians answer the question 'Why?' Why do people hate us this much? What can we do to change this? It's no use thinking we are dealing with a small bunch of maniacs, as seems to be the popular view, who need to be 'stamped out.' I have a few tips that may help: 1. NEVER say anything that may be even remotly offensive to islam. Do not even show negative news on tv. They hate this. Check out Rushdie or the Dutch filmaker that was murdered. 2. Make music that is only pleasing to god 3. Teach Islam in the schools. If we are evil than we must try to be like them and show we are not. 4.Talking of how we are perceived of a s greedy, how much are you worth Brian? Or is that different? 5. Pay $500 for a barrel of oil. That is what Bin Laden said we should be doing. Sell it to the infidels but make them pay. 6. Take out all westerners from the middle east, no matter who they are or what they do. Laden has stated clearly that we do not belong there. We are the infidel. 7. Continue with humanitarian aid and increase it as much as we can afford. They may hate us but we have to show we are better and continue to send them money. 8. Remove troops from Bosnia. If the slaugher continues, well the terrorists can step in and help. Like they give a damm about their own people anyway. 9.Do NOT develop electric cars. If we do not need oil, these people have NOTHING, and that would be hatefull on our behalf right? Look, I could go on and I respect Brians views, but it is a relativly small percentage of people who want to do us harm. Do you really want to change your way of live out of fear, and hope they leave you alone until the next time they want something. While not perfect, do you really think the USA and England is evil? If so, how could you live there? Must be non-evil places you can be. Lastly, knowing what Sadam was doing to his people (women and children) daily, do you not think it's evil to do nothing? "What a shame, we will do a concert and send money". But they still die. Singing kumbaya and hoping does not make dictators go away and does not relieve most of the worlds suffering. never has, probably never will.

Oh, finally a clear, proud answer to hypocrisy!!!! I haven't read the replies to this thread yet. I just wanted to tell you how happy I am to finally see a polite but still strong statement against the hypocrits who I feel are taking over our Western world and are supporting the enemy rather than helping in the cause for peace. We all agree we have many flaws...we all agree love and compassion are wonderful and necessary, but let's get real. Let's not mix up good from evil. Brian proved to be just another face in the crowd of the billionaire celebrities who use beautiful, empty words to appear compassionate and generous. After all, their words mean little to nothing. They must not take decisions anyway. I'm not even sure people like Brian are in good faith. Of course he knows very well that if he was born in those societies he preaches understanding for, he would not even be allowed to express his opinion, let alone to sing about sex, parties, and lead the life he led. I'm tired of this political correctness. I am the victim! And I'm tired. This attitude is just working against us. Fairy

BHM 0271 wrote: Fairy, using my quote about Americans being insular then mentioning nothing about it is an odd way of making your point.
Why? I simply meant that other countries are just as concerned about their own affairs as the US is, but they do it in a more subtle way. I just meant that for the French, the Germans, and the like, it is very easy to say no to the war on terror, simply because they know that there will always be someone who will fight it for them. They're protecting their interests and yet playing the innocent ones, so that the terrorists are less likely to attack them. But they're just hiding behind the only superpower who can somehow defend them.
If this isn't true, then they should have the guts to really break off economic and political ties with the US and Britain and venture out on their own. Make their own treaties with Islamic countries, etc. But then...when danger approaches, who gets called? Don't call on the US then.
If the Americans hadn't intervened in world war II, what would be the situation in France, Germany, and the rest of the Western world?

kdj2hot wrote: Sadam was by all accounts a bad guy but the Iraqi people were much safer under him than they are now. He ruled with an iron fist and the laws in that country were harsh but law abiding citizens were safe.
I couldn't disagree more...:-). First of all, law-abiding citizens in Saddam Iraq simply meant that you had to shut up and be deprived of any type of freedom you can think of, and of your pride.
Second, I don't think they're safer now. It's just that now we, thousands of miles away, hear of each Iraqi life lost, whereas during the Saddam era, dissidents and others simply disappeared - thousands of them - and nobody knew about it. Many of them were then found thrown in common ditches.
If this means being better off...........my entire vision of the world is totally distorted. LOL

coops wrote: KDJ2HOT, regardless of your political views the statements you made are really silly. Amnesty say that 75,0000 to 100,0000 went missing every year in Iraq, and many more were systematically tortured including women and children. Try telling them they had it better. Tell the thousands of Kurds who were gassed by Sadam that they were better off running for their gas masks than they are now. Western goods (such evil icons of greedy western culture such as satellite dishes ) are readily available so Iraqi,s can see what is going on around the world are available. Iraq may soon start to take advantage of the sale of their own oil, rather than it going into the pockets of a few. Medicine and food available at a price people can afford. But just a few, mostly non-iraqi people want to ruin it so they can go back to the good old days you seem to think were so special. And please get your facts right. I have posted on this forum (with no response by the way)for someone to send a link with a direct quote from Bush or Blair saying Iraq had wmd,s and were going to use them against the USA. We gave him the option to allow us to look or we would come in and look for ourselves. I don't think he would start a war with us, but I think given the opportunity he would sell weapons, or give them, to those who wouuld. If you disagree with the war fine. Just don't invent stuff to back up an argument. Hold on, your Michael Moore aren,t you?

coops wrote: Interesting how you seem to want to believe Sadam before anything else. But let me explain one thing to you- no one said Iraq was responsible for 911. Okay? Try to understand that over the last 20 years there have been multiple attacks on western countries and property that took thousands of lives. Then there was 911. This was big scale, and here in the USA. If you are in charge, you would probably think this is not the final attack. there could be one tomorrow, next week, even bigger and with gas or biological weapons. Who knows? Do you wait and see? You might, I don't know. Where might a terrorist get such weapons? Well we know Sadam had them and he keeps blocking inspectors- lets give him the ultimatum the United Nations gave him but failed to enforce. Sadam refused. He thought that because he had France, Germany and Russia in his pocket he was safe. We gave a second ultimatum. He refused and so we went in. One last thing to think about. What if Iraq held democratic elections and that country became prosperous? Over the years people in Iran, Syria etc wanted the same thing (the people fighting in Iraq now are from these countries trying to prevent peace and democracy) like Lebanon are working at now, and even Palestine and Israel are working hard. When these countries have peace and freedom and prosperity they will not tolerate terrorism, though they will probably still be around. I know you want this but HATE to think it may happen because of the bush administration. Hey it may not, but you gotta try. The world is getting smaller my friend and just like your community does not tolerate drug pushers, the world does not need to tolerate the Sadams of the world. Yes there are more but you start somewhere and hope it snowballs. I may be wrong but I believe people want the same things you and I take for granted. You think people would rather go back to Sadam than have a chance at real freedom, I don,t because I would not want to live like that. Why should I think anybody else would? Would you?

coops wrote:
Americans are always prepared to give but I am sick when I hear Europeans say "you onlt gave 30 billion to Africa for HIV teaching " when you gave none.
We have a little joke on Communists (which in Italy are way too many). The Communiss say: "If I had 2 airplanes, I'd keep 1 and give one to the party! If I had 2 cars, I'd keep one and give one to the party! If I had 2 bicycles....well, I have those, and they're mine!"
I'm Italian but I'm sick of hearing that too about Americans, especially since whenever something goes wrong we all turn to the US for help like wining small children will turn to their parents.