caviar 07.07.2005 14:01 |
Will English people finally understand that they shouldn't allow hateful islamists spread their hate all day long in Hyde Park calling for the death of the Queen and the islamization of UK? These terrorists attacks are awful. Islamist organizations should be kicked out of England. |
Suigi 07.07.2005 14:15 |
So, this could be considered Live Hate? *gets shot by Political-Correctness Police for improper remark and horrible pun* |
Serry... 07.07.2005 14:22 |
A couple years ago in London was convention called ''Jihad against Russia'', our journalist was attacked there and spent few months in hospital, but government of UK didn't care about it all - it was okay for them. If this is 'liberty' - when I don't want such 'liberty' for my country. It's very sad that people understand some clear things only when people are dying because of this terrible terrorist attacks. |
Daburcor? 07.07.2005 14:40 |
Not all Islamic people are bad. Not all Muslims are bad. Not all Christians are good. Not all Buddhists are good. Not all Scientologists are crazy. Not all gays are pedophiles. Not all southerners are stupid. Not all northerners are mean. Not all straight people are homophobes. Not all Americans are fat and lazy. Not all Asians are smart. Not all Africans have HIV/AIDS. The list goes on and on... We can't judge whole groups of people based on the actions of a select few. |
DudleyFufkin 07.07.2005 14:57 |
I agree, send them all back. let them live in arab countries where they belong. but people say "oh, all muslims are not bad" but we dont know which are bad and which are not. they all wear these ridicilous costumes, covering their faces, then we get hooded tops banned but they can cover thier heads. its not on. |
Wet Willie 07.07.2005 15:04 |
The stuff you read after these kind of events... Well, Freddie was... oh not British... humm.... From Iran? I think so... His ancestors are Iranian... So this means Freddie would have had to be sent back? Listen, it's understandeble you're shocked, who isn't. But understand that those who place these bombs lack education. Not that they're stupid, it's the lack of education they receive due to embargos, propaganda... It's also motivated by jealousy of not having all the material stuff you have. Islam is not about hate. ALL religions of the world preach LOVE! Fuck, even George W. Bush has got the message of jesus wrong! LOVE!!! That's the key. NOT all Muslims are pro-terrorists. NOT al Christians are pro-Bush. There's bad element everywhere! Even in Buddhism. PLEASE, I hurge you NOT to fall for the lowest emotions that will cause HATE and REVENGE upon locals who have NOTHING to do with this. Show the extremests that this will NOT effect your view on religious harmony! The best way to make them dissapear is to understand one another! |
Serry... 07.07.2005 15:09 |
DudleyFufkin wrote: but we dont know which are bad and which are not. they all wear these ridicilous costumes, covering their faces, then we get hooded tops banned but they can cover thier heads. its not on.How do you which non-muslims are good and which are bad? |
DudleyFufkin 07.07.2005 15:09 |
Freddie wasnt muslim. |
deleted user 07.07.2005 15:23 |
A lot of people are racist towards them since 9-11 |
DudleyFufkin 07.07.2005 16:07 |
Good. |
Wet Willie 07.07.2005 16:48 |
DudleyFufkin wrote: Good.I hope that by morning your mind will have changed. This attitude is very sad. Blaming a whole nation or religious following because of a very sad and tragic event is unjustifiable. I hope you will grow up. |
Wet Willie 07.07.2005 16:49 |
caviar wrote: Will English people finally understand that they shouldn't allow hateful islamists spread their hate all day long in Hyde Park calling for the death of the Queen and the islamization of UK? These terrorists attacks are awful. Islamist organizations should be kicked out of England.Well how about you start by kicking one of the reasons behind this hatred... you know... that president your family voted for? |
Wet Willie 07.07.2005 16:50 |
DudleyFufkin wrote: Freddie wasnt muslim.nope, but he wasn't white! So that, according to the bull I've been reading here is a valid reason for kicking him out of the UK. Boy am I glad I left that country, seeing how some of its youth is forgetting who and what our grandparents fought: hatred and racism. |
k01olnug 07.07.2005 16:54 |
look i dont think that all muslims are terrorists but i think its fairly safe to say that our main threat our muslims terrorists. Our we therefore not justified to protect ourselves and reduce such minorities. We are Britain yet we find ourslef in a time were few are British. I do have foreign friends so do not call out racist. It is in my belief that this country would benifit from reducing such ethnic groups and taking higher precautions when graunting asilim or a green card. |
bryans permed poodle 15069 07.07.2005 17:16 |
Chrirons wrote:You are correct we have good people in the UK who are Muslims. I think the real problem is a lot of people feel the Muslim religion is too extreme, inflexible, outdated and not tolerable to other relegions. Others feel that Moderate Muslim leaders don't do enough to condone attacks on the WestDudleyFufkin wrote: Good.I hope that by morning your mind will have changed. This attitude is very sad. Blaming a whole nation or religious following because of a very sad and tragic event is unjustifiable. I hope you will grow up. |
caviar 07.07.2005 17:33 |
Well there is quite some deviation here. I started my topic saying that we should kick out those islamic preachers who spend their time in Mosquees and in Hyde Park calling for Jihad and the Islamization of the country? I never mentioned that all Muslims are bad. My point is that extremists are the problem and moderate are the solution. However islamic preachers in England who call for hate, crimes and other forms of Jihad are led by love but by hate. These people should be kicked out, and only them! |
agneepath! 11994 07.07.2005 17:36 |
DudleyFufkin wrote: I agree, send them all back. let them live in arab countries where they belong. but people say "oh, all muslims are not bad" but we dont know which are bad and which are not. they all wear these ridicilous costumes, covering their faces, then we get hooded tops banned but they can cover thier heads. its not on.where would you send Cat Stevens? |
doremi 07.07.2005 17:45 |
Agneepath! wrote:I thought I had heard they wouldn't allow him back into the USA a while ago, or something to that affect.DudleyFufkin wrote: I agree, send them all back. let them live in arab countries where they belong. but people say "oh, all muslims are not bad" but we dont know which are bad and which are not. they all wear these ridicilous costumes, covering their faces, then we get hooded tops banned but they can cover thier heads. its not on.where would you send Cat Stevens? |
agneepath! 11994 07.07.2005 17:50 |
Dan Corson wrote: Not all Islamic people are bad. Not all Muslims are bad. Not all Christians are good. Not all Buddhists are good. Not all Scientologists are crazy. Not all gays are pedophiles. Not all southerners are stupid. Not all northerners are mean. Not all straight people are homophobes. Not all Americans are fat and lazy. Not all Asians are smart. Not all Africans have HIV/AIDS. The list goes on and on... We can't judge whole groups of people based on the actions of a select few.Agreed - Sometimes I'm not sure what scares me the most: The actual terrorist attack or the reaction of seemingly intelligent adults. |
Suigi 07.07.2005 18:19 |
Well, what's the first reaction of the human mind when it finds out that people are being killed by terrorists? Fear, right? Right. And when you fear something, you begin to hate something. And hate is the worst thing to do. Hate begets hate. And to clarify, Freddie was born in Zanzibar to Persian parents, and went to school in India before moving to England. He was Zoroastrian, not Muslim. |
Tim June 07.07.2005 18:31 |
The terroristic attacks are terrible and I feel very sad about the victims. But the terror and the terrorist are just part of our so called civilisation, no alians. The seed of terror will grow forever, in a world that (is) based mainly on injustice and double standarts. I think it is not only a question of culture or religion. |
inu-liger 07.07.2005 21:08 |
Arlene R. Weiss wrote:He was on a flight to the USA when it was discovered he was on the oh so coveted "No-Fly List", so they turned the plane around and sent him back, because he APPARENTLY has ties to terrorist organization groups.....bullshit that is. It's Bush behind this, I tell ya!Agneepath! wrote:I thought I had heard they wouldn't allow him back into the USA a while ago, or something to that affect.DudleyFufkin wrote: I agree, send them all back. let them live in arab countries where they belong. but people say "oh, all muslims are not bad" but we dont know which are bad and which are not. they all wear these ridicilous costumes, covering their faces, then we get hooded tops banned but they can cover thier heads. its not on.where would you send Cat Stevens? |
Mr Mercury 07.07.2005 22:27 |
Suigi wrote: And when you fear something, you begin to hate something. And hate is the worst thing to do. Hate begets hate.All that talk of hate puts me in mind of the Honda advert song link And so that you can all sing along the words are Here's a song for anyone who's ever hated... in the key of Grrr... Can hate be good? Can hate be great? Can hate be good? Can hate be great? Can hate be something we don't hate? We'd like to know... why it is so. That certain diesels must be slow and thwack and thrum... and pong and hum and clatter-clat Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something, make something better-r-r-r Ohh isn't it just bliss... when a diesel goes like this? Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something, make something better-r-r-r... |
Mr.Jingles 08.07.2005 08:16 |
What sickens me about the so many people here in the States complaining about Muslim fundamentalism is that a lot of the ones who say shit about Muslims happen to be "Christian" fundamentalists. It gets on my nerves that these idiots make up all this shit on issues like abortion, homosexuality, and use of birth control when there's not one single part of the Bible where these issues are addressed, but of course they brand them as "Christian causes" even though a lot of them didn't even exist during the times of Jesuschrist. |
The Fairy King 08.07.2005 08:21 |
There u go. -.-' Can we stop this? NO. Can we live with it? NO. You'll always have narrowminded, stupid people. Most will use drastic measures to make their point, how sick that point even may be. They get away with it but it will get us nowhere. |
Sonia Doris 08.07.2005 08:41 |
The people like the one who started this topic are more dangerous than the actual terrorists... So what's the world gonna be? smth like All Muslims are terrorists. All terrorists should be killed. So, all Muslims should be killed. Same goes the other way around for Christians... What a beautiful world indeed... There goes the message of love... Sunk in hatred and shit... :-( |
dimcyril 08.07.2005 09:59 |
all religious extremists are bonkers and dangerous no matter what religion they are. look at the beatle burning bonfires of 1966. the ku klux klan threatening to kill the beatles. they claimed to be angry by John Lennon saying the beatles were more popular than jesus. ku klux klan christians? do me a favour they were / are racist, intolerrant, thick as shit scum besides firstly john lennon was correct in what he said secondly in britain most people agreed with Lennon. thirdly it was the mad psycho christian extremists in the bible belt of the usa who kicked up a fuss over it you cannot rationalise with an extremist sadly my favourite lennon line was 'if i'd said television was more popular than jesus, or motor cars, i would have got away with it' any mad extremists arguing that television ISNT more popular than jesus? |
Erin 08.07.2005 10:11 |
Dan Corson wrote: Not all southerners are stupid.Yer dang straight..:-B |
Teo_torriate04 08.07.2005 11:24 |
Dan Corson wrote: Not all Islamic people are bad. Not all Muslims are bad. Not all Christians are good. Not all Buddhists are good. Not all Scientologists are crazy. Not all gays are pedophiles. Not all southerners are stupid. Not all northerners are mean. Not all straight people are homophobes. Not all Americans are fat and lazy. Not all Asians are smart. Not all Africans have HIV/AIDS. The list goes on and on... We can't judge whole groups of people based on the actions of a select few.With the exception of the French of course !! ;) |
Mr Mercury 08.07.2005 12:20 |
dimcyril wrote: all religious extremists are bonkers and dangerous no matter what religion they are. look at the beatle burning bonfires of 1966. the ku klux klan threatening to kill the beatles. they claimed to be angry by John Lennon saying the beatles were more popular than jesus. ku klux klan christians? do me a favour they were / are racist, intolerrant, thick as shit scum besides firstly john lennon was correct in what he said secondly in britain most people agreed with Lennon. thirdly it was the mad psycho christian extremists in the bible belt of the usa who kicked up a fuss over it you cannot rationalise with an extremist sadly my favourite lennon line was 'if i'd said television was more popular than jesus, or motor cars, i would have got away with it' any mad extremists arguing that television ISNT more popular than jesus?Dont forget the mob who were gonna kill Ringo Starr just because they thought he was Jewish (he isnt by the way) |
john bodega 08.07.2005 14:30 |
Fufkin, you're an idiot. |
Goo 08.07.2005 14:54 |
Do you people honestly think you'll be fully safe if you kick out all of the muslims? How thick can you possibly get? Most terrorist organizations are NOT based in the country they're against, and someone does not have to actually live in your country in order to hurt you. Also, there have been Westerner terrorists before, and if you want to maintain the idea of kicking every potential terrorist out, then you will have to evacuate the whole country. On top of that, where would you like to put all of those people? Wherever they go, they'll have to start off a new, and probably much worse, life, which will only cultivate the hate they feel for the western world. If everyone of islamic nationalities felt more welcome, accepted, and respected by the more powerful countries, then there would certainly be much less anger towards us, and therefore less terrorism. I'm pretty sure the Cat Stevens thing was a mistake. I remember hearing that he had the same muslim name as someone who was an alleged terrorist, or something of that sort, but I may be totally off there. |
Ray D O'Gaga 08.07.2005 19:09 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: What sickens me about the so many people here in the States complaining about Muslim fundamentalism is that a lot of the ones who say shit about Muslims happen to be "Christian" fundamentalists. It gets on my nerves that these idiots make up all this shit on issues like abortion, homosexuality, and use of birth control when there's not one single part of the Bible where these issues are addressed, but of course they brand them as "Christian causes" even though a lot of them didn't even exist during the times of Jesuschrist.John Q. Christian isn't blowing up subway trains, flying jetliners into the World Trade Center, and cutting off people's heads on the orders of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell either. Violence committed by Christian fundamentalists is few and far between and always condemned by the vast majority of the mainstream of both fundamentalist and mainline Christian leaders. You object to Christian fundamentalists furthering their views via the political process. We should be so lucky as to have the worst act of these barbarous Islamist fanatics be trying to pressure lawmakers to pass legislation in their favor or lobbying for a Supreme Court justice who slanted their way. There is a universe of difference between the two groups, what they want, and the tactics they're willing to use to achieve their goals. Christian fundamentalists may not be the most pleasant people to have around, but they're not going to chop your head off, blow you up, or turn your female relatives into chattle. If you don't perceive an enormous difference between the two groups, you really need to open your eyes. Its like the difference between throwing a bullet and shooting it. No comparison. Christian fundamentalists make you angry and annoyed. Muslim fundamentalists make you dead or maimed. ------------------------------------------- I resent your success. I hate you and your kind. So I bomb you By Roger Scruton link APOLOGISTS for terrorism (and they are not in short supply) argue that it is a weapon used by people who despair of achieving their goals in any other way. It is a cry from the depths by those deprived of a voice in the political process. The terrorist is not an aggressor but a victim, and we must disarm him not by violence but by addressing the grievance that motivates his deeds. This argument has been used to excuse Palestinian suicide bombers, IRA kneecappers, Red Brigade kidnappers, and even the mass murderers of September 11. Its main effect is to blame the victim and excuse the crime. If you look at the actual condition of terrorists down the ages, however, you will soon discover that the excuse does not match the reality. Some terrorists have been poor and some have been victims of injustice. But those are the exceptions. The Jacobins, who unleashed the original Terror, were for the most part privileged members of the rising elite. The Russian anarchists of the 19th century were no worse off from the point of view of material and social privileges than you or me, and with grievances that were more the work of the imagination than the result of either observing or sympathising with the ordinary people of Russia. There is no evidence that Osama bin Laden’s entourage is any different, and even the IRA, which purports to represent the “oppressed” Catholics of Ulster, is very far from recruiting from those whose oppressed condition it loudly advertises. As for the Islamist terrorists who have targeted our cities, they tend to be well educated, specialists in medicine, engineering or computer science, people who might have helped to provide the Middle East with the stable middle class that it so badly needs, but instead have chosen another and faster route to glory. It seems to me that we will be nearer to understanding terrorism if, instead of looking at what terrorist |
The Real Wizard 10.07.2005 01:48 |
Ray, that's such a fantastic post, full of great points (glad to see you here again!). But you're posting in the wrong forum. You're over the heads of 95% of the people here. |
Saint Jiub 10.07.2005 12:59 |
Great post Ray ... even though I only understood every 3rd word ... LOL |
Sir Archie 'Tiffany' Leach 10.07.2005 18:07 |
Oh for the day when all religion is banned... |
Music Man 10.07.2005 18:31 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: What sickens me about the so many people here in the States complaining about Muslim fundamentalism is that a lot of the ones who say shit about Muslims happen to be "Christian" fundamentalists. It gets on my nerves that these idiots make up all this shit on issues like abortion, homosexuality, and use of birth control when there's not one single part of the Bible where these issues are addressed, but of course they brand them as "Christian causes" even though a lot of them didn't even exist during the times of Jesuschrist.It's funny how you clearly have as much of a bias against Christian fundamentalists as you do Muslim fundamentalists. They don't "make up all this shit" on such issues, rather their personal moral beliefs lead them to such conclusions. You seem to think that these people just read the Bible in order to create a political platform, whereas they use their own moral beliefs, which, by the way, I believe everyone is entitled to. I suppose you do not feel that way? But also, you claim that the people who "say shit about Muslims" happen to be Christian fundamentalists. Well, already in this thread we have encountered many occurences of "shit" being said about Muslims, and not by Christian fundamentalists. See, what you are doing, is you are using every available opportunity to condemn these Christian fundamentalists, when they really play a very minimal role in this argument. I hope you can learn to see beyond your biases before you try to extricate others of theirs. |
dimcyril 11.07.2005 08:40 |
Mr Mercury wrote:ah yes. wasn't it in canada? and the reason they thought he was jewish was due to the size of his hooter.dimcyril wrote: all religious extremists are bonkers and dangerous no matter what religion they are. look at the beatle burning bonfires of 1966. the ku klux klan threatening to kill the beatles. they claimed to be angry by John Lennon saying the beatles were more popular than jesus. ku klux klan christians? do me a favour they were / are racist, intolerrant, thick as shit scum besides firstly john lennon was correct in what he said secondly in britain most people agreed with Lennon. thirdly it was the mad psycho christian extremists in the bible belt of the usa who kicked up a fuss over it you cannot rationalise with an extremist sadly my favourite lennon line was 'if i'd said television was more popular than jesus, or motor cars, i would have got away with it' any mad extremists arguing that television ISNT more popular than jesus?Dont forget the mob who were gonna kill Ringo Starr just because they thought he was Jewish (he isnt by the way) |
dimcyril 11.07.2005 08:43 |
Music Man wrote:Mr.Jingles79 wrote: What sickens me about the so many people here in the States complaining about Muslim fundamentalism is that a lot of the ones who say shit about Muslims happen to be "Christian" fundamentalists. It gets on my nerves that these idiots make up all this shit on issues like abortion, homosexuality, and use of birth control when there's not one single part of the Bible where these issues are addressed, but of course they brand them as "Christian causes" even though a lot of them didn't even exist during the times of Jesuschrist.surely it is sensible to dislike one set of fundamentalists as much as another. after all, all very religious people are slightly insane. otherwise they wouldn't spend their lives devoted to something that so obviously doesn't exist. the other thing about very religious people that is annoying is their smugness. It's funny how you clearly have as much of a bias against Christian fundamentalists as you do Muslim fundamentalists. They don't "make up all this shit" on such issues, rather their personal moral beliefs lead them to such conclusions. You seem to think that these people just read the Bible in order to create a political platform, whereas they use their own moral beliefs, which, by the way, I believe everyone is entitled to. I suppose you do not feel that way? But also, you claim that the people who "say shit about Muslims" happen to be Christian fundamentalists. Well, already in this thread we have encountered many occurences of "shit" being said about Muslims, and not by Christian fundamentalists. See, what you are doing, is you are using every available opportunity to condemn these Christian fundamentalists, when they really play a very minimal role in this argument. I hope you can learn to see beyond your biases before you try to extricate others of theirs. |
dimcyril 11.07.2005 08:44 |
dimcyril wrote:Music Man wrote:Mr.Jingles79 wrote: What sickens me about the so many people here in the States complaining about Muslim fundamentalism is that a lot of the ones who say shit about Muslims happen to be "Christian" fundamentalists. It gets on my nerves that these idiots make up all this shit on issues like abortion, homosexuality, and use of birth control when there's not one single part of the Bible where these issues are addressed, but of course they brand them as "Christian causes" even though a lot of them didn't even exist during the times of Jesuschrist.surely it is sensible to dislike one set of fundamentalists as much as another. after all, all very religious people are slightly insane. otherwise they wouldn't spend their lives devoted to something that so obviously doesn't exist. |
Fenderek 11.07.2005 08:49 |
I think th epoint is that the Christian fundamentalists who want to make world the way exactly they believe it should be (no matter which way) are the same kind of shit as Muslim fundamentalists. As simple- it's not a certain faith that is the problem. It's when you start killing (hurting, stealing etc) in the name of any god- that's the thing. And christianity isn't much "cleaner" in its history than Islam IMO... Live and let live. You believe in sth- great. Let others find their own way... But no- we've got the great message, we need to enforce it on you. Christians, Catholics, Muslim, whatever- it's all the same... And what's really fuuny is the fact taht all religions are based on love... Ironic, isn't it? |
Mr.Jingles 11.07.2005 08:49 |
Music Man wrote:I was never making some kind of generalization by saying that only christians or christian fundamentalists are the only ones who spread hatred against Muslim by putting this TERRORIST label on them. In fact, I know most TRUE christian are against the war in Iraq, or to some extent have doubts about it being the right thing to do.Mr.Jingles79 wrote: What sickens me about the so many people here in the States complaining about Muslim fundamentalism is that a lot of the ones who say shit about Muslims happen to be "Christian" fundamentalists. It gets on my nerves that these idiots make up all this shit on issues like abortion, homosexuality, and use of birth control when there's not one single part of the Bible where these issues are addressed, but of course they brand them as "Christian causes" even though a lot of them didn't even exist during the times of Jesuschrist.It's funny how you clearly have as much of a bias against Christian fundamentalists as you do Muslim fundamentalists. They don't "make up all this shit" on such issues, rather their personal moral beliefs lead them to such conclusions. You seem to think that these people just read the Bible in order to create a political platform, whereas they use their own moral beliefs, which, by the way, I believe everyone is entitled to. I suppose you do not feel that way? But also, you claim that the people who "say shit about Muslims" happen to be Christian fundamentalists. Well, already in this thread we have encountered many occurences of "shit" being said about Muslims, and not by Christian fundamentalists. See, what you are doing, is you are using every available opportunity to condemn these Christian fundamentalists, when they really play a very minimal role in this argument. I hope you can learn to see beyond your biases before you try to extricate others of theirs. Btw, the fact that so many so called "christians" bring all these issues such as abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, or terrorism, is not just a matter of PERSONAL OPINION, because they're indeed branding them as CHRISTIAN. How many times have we heard the GOD IS ON OUR SIDE comment when it comes to refering to the war on terrorism. Has God actually come up to these people to tell them that he's on our side. Why do these people think that violent retaliation is correct when Jesus stood against violence or hatred above anything else?? |
Music Man 11.07.2005 19:33 |
dimcyril wrote: surely it is sensible to dislike one set of fundamentalists as much as another. after all, all very religious people are slightly insane. otherwise they wouldn't spend their lives devoted to something that so obviously doesn't exist. the other thing about very religious people that is annoying is their smugness. i should n;t have included that much of the previous quoteSurely, you can't be serious. And I'm quite sure, or at least hoping, that this post was only a result of frustration at the topic at hand. It happens to everyone. That's why we have these mosques vandalized. People acting without thinking it through. People frustrated by their anger which blinds them. I could really make you regret saying that, but I understand why you said it...you call them smug, but you're not acting much differently. I'll just try to explain things a little. You don't have to be a fundamentalist or very religious in order to believe in this thing which so "obviously doesn't exist." So basically, you are calling every single person of faith slightly insane. Let me assure you, that within a reasonable degree of psychological certainty, these people are not insane in any way. Their minds function just as well as yours or mine. Please, you are clearly stereotyping. Listen, you seem to enjoy logic, so how about this: if devoutly following a religion is what makes certain people's lives easier or happier, then why should you ridicule them for that? Most of even the fundamentalists are good people with very strict morals. When their morals do not perfectly align with society's, you take offense. That is understandable, but in doing so you tend to envelop all of them under this umbrella which obfuscates your judgement. Please, go ahead. Hate people who kill people to get their point across. Hate people who threaten people to get their point across. But don't hate people who vote to get their point across. |
Music Man 11.07.2005 19:49 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote:You are correct. You weren't making a generalization, really. You were just directing your insults at a particular group of people. You didn't say they were the only ones, you just conveniently placed your crosshairs over this particular group.Music Man wrote:I was never making some kind of generalization by saying that only christians or christian fundamentalists are the only ones who spread hatred against Muslim by putting this TERRORIST label on them. In fact, I know most TRUE christian are against the war in Iraq, or to some extent have doubts about it being the right thing to do. Btw, the fact that so many so called "christians" bring all these issues such as abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, or terrorism, is not just a matter of PERSONAL OPINION, because they're indeed branding them as CHRISTIAN. How many times have we heard the GOD IS ON OUR SIDE comment when it comes to refering to the war on terrorism. Has God actually come up to these people to tell them that he's on our side. Why do these people think that violent retaliation is correct when Jesus stood against violence or hatred above anything else??Mr.Jingles79 wrote: What sickens me about the so many people here in the States complaining about Muslim fundamentalism is that a lot of the ones who say shit about Muslims happen to be "Christian" fundamentalists. It gets on my nerves that these idiots make up all this shit on issues like abortion, homosexuality, and use of birth control when there's not one single part of the Bible where these issues are addressed, but of course they brand them as "Christian causes" even though a lot of them didn't even exist during the times of Jesuschrist.It's funny how you clearly have as much of a bias against Christian fundamentalists as you do Muslim fundamentalists. They don't "make up all this shit" on such issues, rather their personal moral beliefs lead them to such conclusions. You seem to think that these people just read the Bible in order to create a political platform, whereas they use their own moral beliefs, which, by the way, I believe everyone is entitled to. I suppose you do not feel that way? But also, you claim that the people who "say shit about Muslims" happen to be Christian fundamentalists. Well, already in this thread we have encountered many occurences of "shit" being said about Muslims, and not by Christian fundamentalists. See, what you are doing, is you are using every available opportunity to condemn these Christian fundamentalists, when they really play a very minimal role in this argument. I hope you can learn to see beyond your biases before you try to extricate others of theirs. The fact that you are biased against fundamental Christians can be seen as clearly as the light of day. I'm not going to judge you for that, it is perfectly clear why you feel that way. You were simply angry at the time of the post - riled up. You weren't thinking, you were distracted, and your subtle prejudices showed through. It happens to all of us. Don't feel ashamed, just acknowledge it and move on. And these things are a matter of personal opinion. You have to think of it psychologically, instead of what you read in the newspapers. If someone doesn't like abortion, they will then seek Christian references to back them up, to feel more secure about their decision. They do not just follow their religions and blindly apply every single tenet that it holds. There are fundamentalists of every range of intelligence, and most of them can, in fact, think for themselves. They just tend to agree more with what was set forth in their religion, or feel more security in using their religion to promote their beliefs. I have never heard of a scenario in which a person thought, "I really don't think there' |
The Real Wizard 11.07.2005 22:27 |
Music Man... I have to say, I really enjoy reading your posts. By any chance, are you interested in studying psychology? Your knowledge, understanding of, and empathy for people, especially those different from you, is outstanding. We need more people like you in this world.
Music Man wrote: They don't "make up all this shit" on such issues, rather their personal moral beliefs lead them to such conclusions. You seem to think that these people just read the Bible in order to create a political platform, whereas they use their own moral beliefs...but this is the only place where I disagree with you. So you're trying to say that they come up with their beliefs (however bigoted or not) without the help of their bible? Other than their pastor who reads that same bible and gives "lessons" based on such writings, that is the primary source of their morals. Fundamentalists believe that the law is in the bible, and most of these people will condemn others who do not agree, saying they are "lost", and need to find the way. Many may be diplomatic and not say such a thing outright, but that is the belief of a fundamentalist. I have met many people like this, and they are scary. I am not being judgemental... I am stating the truth. If they weren't so strict about their beliefs, they wouldn't be fundamentalists. They would have mainline protestant beliefs and practices. On a slight tangent: Technically speaking, a fundamentalist cannot take a loan for a house if they take Levitical law to be verbatim, so if we go by the true definition of fundamentalist as being one who believes in and follows this collection of writings word for word, then there probably aren't any "true" fundamentalists in the world. But that's another discussion altogether. That ancient and celebrated piece of literature contains up to 2500-year-old laws and ideas, yet fundamentalists think they should stand for all times. The majority of the theology and ideas of Christian fundamentalists are anachronistic, anti-intellectual, and just plain wrong, by the standards of the growing world today. Such exercise of bigotry and intolerance in the name of religion is the reason why more people have been killed in the name of God than any other reason. Religious folk will try to throw numbers around to prove otherwise, but this is a fact. But also, you claim that the people who "say shit about Muslims" happen to be Christian fundamentalists. Well, already in this thread we have encountered many occurences of "shit" being said about Muslims, and not by Christian fundamentalists. See, what you are doing, is you are using every available opportunity to condemn these Christian fundamentalists, when they really play a very minimal role in this argument.I'll stand up for Jingles here. Never did he say that Christian fundamentalists are the only type of people who "say shit" about muslims. But they are surely make up large percentage of such bigots who claim that every religion other than theirs is the wrong path to be on. Fenderek wrote: But no- we've got the great message, we need to enforce it on you. Christians, Catholics, Muslim, whatever- it's all the same... And what's really fuuny is the fact taht all religions are based on love... Ironic, isn't it?But in most cases, they truly believe that it is an act of "love" to try to destroy relativism one step at a time by converting people to their religion. John 12:47 reads: "And if any man hears my words, and does not believe, I will not judge him". The (supposed) words of Jesus. Most scholars believe these not to be authentic words of Jesus, but regardless of their authenticity, this is a depiction of Jesus being the exact opposite of judgemental. Yet there are millions of people who worship/follow this per |
Mr.Jingles 12.07.2005 09:03 |
I'm very sorry, but using God's name to justify violence is nothing but BLASPHEMY, and it's without a doubt on of the worst kinds of SIN. It's a blasphemy for terrorists to justify terrorism against us, and it's a blasphemy for us to use it to justify retaliation. It truly makes me sick to the stomach. |
dimcyril 12.07.2005 09:59 |
Music Man wrote:i don't agree with persecuting anyone. i think the current mosque vandals in the UK are beneath contempt.dimcyril wrote: surely it is sensible to dislike one set of fundamentalists as much as another. after all, all very religious people are slightly insane. otherwise they wouldn't spend their lives devoted to something that so obviously doesn't exist. the other thing about very religious people that is annoying is their smugness. i should n;t have included that much of the previous quoteSurely, you can't be serious. And I'm quite sure, or at least hoping, that this post was only a result of frustration at the topic at hand. It happens to everyone. That's why we have these mosques vandalized. People acting without thinking it through. People frustrated by their anger which blinds them. I could really make you regret saying that, but I understand why you said it...you call them smug, but you're not acting much differently. I'll just try to explain things a little. You don't have to be a fundamentalist or very religious in order to believe in this thing which so "obviously doesn't exist." So basically, you are calling every single person of faith slightly insane. Let me assure you, that within a reasonable degree of psychological certainty, these people are not insane in any way. Their minds function just as well as yours or mine. Please, you are clearly stereotyping. Listen, you seem to enjoy logic, so how about this: if devoutly following a religion is what makes certain people's lives easier or happier, then why should you ridicule them for that? Most of even the fundamentalists are good people with very strict morals. When their morals do not perfectly align with society's, you take offense. That is understandable, but in doing so you tend to envelop all of them under this umbrella which obfuscates your judgement. Please, go ahead. Hate people who kill people to get their point across. Hate people who threaten people to get their point across. But don't hate people who vote to get their point across. i believe that people should be allowed to do what they want. however.... i personally don't like very very religious people. [i'm with roger taylor on this one] i have nothing against people who go to church or whatever they attend. however i think blind obedience to anything is dangerous. if you covince a 'little' man that he is doing something in a great cause, he could do anything for that cause. |
Music Man 12.07.2005 20:53 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: Music Man... I have to say, I really enjoy reading your posts. By any chance, are you interested in studying psychology? Your knowledge, understanding of, and empathy for people, especially those different from you, is outstanding. We need more people like you in this world.Hey, I really appreciate that. I'm not feeling too well today, so don't be disappointed. Various people tell me to go into psychology. It rangers from people I personally know, to people whom I merely meet online. Who knows? I'll probably check it out in college. I'd be interested in clinical psychology to help people, I would not want to go into research psychology. However, I'm not sure I could do that in a career. You see, I can analyze and understand people, yes. But a clinical psychologist would have to help people deal with their problems as well on a daily basis. The problem is that it takes a lot out of me. Whenever I see a person or friend with a problem, I will always try to help. I'll try to have them talk about it, and I'll listen. I'll try to show them I understand. You see, I think it takes a giant load off of a person's shoulders when he is able to talk openly about his problems...to somebody. Then we can work together on making them a thing of the past. It's almost inevitable that in this process they become good friends of mine. And when my good friends are sad or depressed, I have a problem. When they're having problems, it's just as if I am...and some things really get my blood boiling. Which is particularly why I don't feel so well now. It's much easier to deal with people online. I guess a good psychologist doesn't develop emotional attachment to their patients. That's what helps them deal with things from a valuable third party perspective, and I stress valuable. That's why it's so much easier for me to help people online. Eh, I had a lot more to say, but I lost my roll. Incidentally, I'm doing some more helping. Yay. Music Man wrote: They don't "make up all this shit" on such issues, rather their personal moral beliefs lead them to such conclusions. You seem to think that these people just read the Bible in order to create a political platform, whereas they use their own moral beliefs...but this is the only place where I disagree with you. So you're trying to say that they come up with their beliefs (however bigoted or not) without the help of their bible? Other than their pastor who reads that same bible and gives "lessons" based on such writings, that is the primary source of their morals. Fundamentalists believe that the law is in the bible, and most of these people will condemn others who do not agree, saying they are "lost", and need to find the way. Many may be diplomatic and not say such a thing outright, but that is the belief of a fundamentalist. I have met many people like this, and they are scary. I am not being judgemental... I am stating the truth. If they weren't so strict about their beliefs, they wouldn't be fundamentalists. They would have mainline protestant beliefs and practices. |
tupincs 13.07.2005 08:59 |
Live Hate? Sir Bob would love it! LOL |
The Real Wizard 13.07.2005 17:54 |
Music Man wrote: Various people tell me to go into psychology. It rangers from people I personally know, to people whom I merely meet online. Who knows? I'll probably check it out in college. I'd be interested in clinical psychology to help people, I would not want to go into research psychology. However, I'm not sure I could do that in a career. You see, I can analyze and understand people, yes. But a clinical psychologist would have to help people deal with their problems as well on a daily basis.If you are interested in psychology, then go and study it. This topic is a major strength of yours. A good chunk of young people don't know what they want to do after high school, and many of them go to University anyway, studying something they don't really enjoy, usually for the sake of making money in the end. So with that in mind, you're already one step ahead of many. In life, I think we need to find a passion and stick with it. And of course, making money is important too, so you have to balance the two. But if money and that passion can come together, then that's even better. I guess a good psychologist doesn't develop emotional attachment to their patients. That's what helps them deal with things from a valuable third party perspective, and I stress valuable. That's why it's so much easier for me to help people online.Yeah, good point... but developing emotional attachments with patients may not necessarily be a bad thing. That's the difference between it being a job, and a passion. You're talking to a guy who is 22, and a guitar teacher at a music studio. Of course I'm not making as much money as I possibly could, but at this point in my life, I'm doing what I love. When it hits the point that I'm not making enough money, then I'll do something about it. Surely many will disagree with this philosophy, but I'm choosing not to disregard my passion for music for the sake of making money - because it's not imperative that I'm dripping with wealth at the moment. |
dimcyril 14.07.2005 05:35 |
I could really make you regret saying that, but I understand why you said it] just curious, in what way could you really make me regret saying that? just remember at the present time, no one in britain is afraid of anything, it must be true i read it in today's edition of The Daily Bastard. |