| geeksandgeeks 29.04.2005 23:28 |
Or actually, anyone, help me out. I have been seeing an amazing young man for quite a period, and for the past couple of weeks everything has just fallen right into place. The problem is, he's a deeply religious Christian, and you all know what I think about religion. We're both willing to accept our differences on that; it's not an issue. But he confessed to me tonight that he's worried about me with regards to the afterlife. We have quite a while to wait before that comes into play, but I feel a bit guilty. So, question to people with somewhat more religion than I have: could you love someone who, according to your upbringing, was headed straight down the road to hell? And if so, how would you deal with that? I neither can nor am I willing to change my whole belief system, but I'd like to make this easier on both of us. |
| Megamike The GREAT 29.04.2005 23:53 |
Well myself I would have to say that I have spent many years walking away from Gods will and while I turned my back on him I tried a couple times to date a woman who was very religious, and it just didn't work, she would NAG me everyday to follow Gods plan, and when you are doing the things that would send you to hell the last thing you want is someone reminding you all the time about it, that is unless you have been thinking of giving your life to Christ and his love. (no.. I am not trying to preach here.. :) ) Hope that helps somewhat. |
| Yogurt 30.04.2005 00:19 |
I don't like to say I'm religous. I have a close relationship with God, but if someone doesn't want to know about God or be preached to, I don't. It's not like I go up to a random person and ask if they know God. Well, you said he's worried about your after life right? I guess he feels that it's his fault that you don't belive in God or something. That he hasn't preached to you well enough. Or something along those words. There are some religous people I know that go a little too extreme and say, "If you don't do this you're going to hell!" Those kinds of people kind of annoy me in a way. If they want to preach, don't scare the people. I was friends with a guy that's religous also. But he's a little too extreme. He would keep asking me stuff like ,"Did you pray?" Before a meal. And everytime I made a mistake he'd say, "Jesus saw you!" Well, we don't talk as much anymore. It's a good thing that your friend doesn't act this way. |
| dragonzflame 30.04.2005 00:34 |
My beliefs don't include Hell so I can't speak for that side. But I do know that if I was in a relationship with someone who was on at me a lot about the fact that I would end up there I'd have to think very seriously about whether it was worth it for us both. Do you really want him to be continually worrying about your immortal soul? Because if he's that devout he probably will. Things always come out right in the end. |
| deleted user 30.04.2005 03:30 |
It's about effing time to test which one's stronger: love or faith in a sublime Being. - - I'd like to know. And BTW, moral dilemmas such as yours are quite fascinating. Either it's a ruin of Love (which amazes me to no end) or the utter destruction of faith. |
| Farlander 30.04.2005 04:04 |
Geeks, You say he is deeply religious. I don't doubt you, but I have a hard time understanding how a deeply religious person could become so deeply involved with someone whose very philosophy flies in the face of everything he supposedly holds most true. What thought process even gets you to that point? How can you have a deep connection with someone whose view of the universe is completely opposite to your own? Why would you even want to be in a relationship like that? The reason, I suspect, is because he is young and overwhelmed by his feelings for you, and doesn't know how to put that in the proper perspective. Making decisions based on feelings leads to disaster almost every time. Because feelings come and go, change, and grow. Some day you will not be quite so beautiful to him and the spark will have gone out of things for you too. Your mutual interests will long have since played themselves out. What then? All that that will be left will be the two of you and who you are on the deepest level. If that doesn't match up, things will be very difficult for you. Because if he loves you, he will never stop trying to convert you. How can you love someone and not persist in trying to share the truth with her? And you. If you love him and truly want what's best for him, how can you stand to watch him waste his life away on a lie? It is the love that will breed the conflict. And life is difficult enough without being locked into eternal philosophical struggle with your partner. You may say you can live with your differing beliefs, but if those beliefs are truly believed with conviction, that will never really happen. My suggestion to you is to end this right away. Let him find a nice Christian girl who can be what he needs. And you find someone who can give you what you need. I've been through this before, and it is difficult. You have my sympathy. Whatever the two of you decide, it will not be easy for either one of you. |
| Banquo 30.04.2005 05:13 |
I had this problem with an ex-girlfriend. She was a very devout Catholic I, however, am nothing having never been christened or anything. I did go to Church with her once for Mass (if only to shut her up). I kept up this romance for nine hole weeks before I realised that we were poles apart in our beliefs so we came to an agreement to end it. To give her her due though she didn't try and force it down my throat. I am very suspicious of people who ram religion down your throats cf. Jehovnah's Witnesses. My advice then in short. Ditch him. |
| Dances With Freddie 30.04.2005 07:08 |
Geeks, you said that everything has fallen into place and that you're both willing to accept your differences. in my opinion, that's a good start. I suggest that you try to hang on a little longer, if that's what you both want. if you really want this relationship, you can work it out. on the other hand, if he's really worried about you and it makes your relationship difficult, maybe you better talk to him and find out what he thinks is the best. it's kind of his problem, and he knows if he can live with it or not. good luck anyway :) |
| KillerQueen840 30.04.2005 09:26 |
I can't help you out, but I will say that I think that you would only go to hell if you did something seriously bad like killing someone. |
| Erin 30.04.2005 10:09 |
I don't mean to be a downer, but if he is really religious I can't see it working out. I have known some extremely religious folks, my aunt included, and they can never except anything that varies from their beliefs. I would personally feel like I was being judged all the time. |
| deleted user 30.04.2005 10:09 |
Well, first off, Mandy, you have to understand that he is only bringing up this subject because he cares. We Christians can be "weird" that way. It seems like we are pushing, but it really isn't supposed to be that way. For me personally, I wouldn't date someone who doesn't share my belief system simply because I would already know that problems would occur. It is basically an understanding that I have that I will date someone that I I know I could possibly marry eventually and I would want that person to be Christian, so we would be on track with everything. Even if a person loves another person who doesn't share the same beliefs, those two people are STILL capable of (eventually) getting into nasty religious debates. And if they don't, they probably always choose their words wisely. Now you need to consider whether or not you two can remain in love with one another and continue to care for him when he feels so differently than you do. You also need to realize that neither of you are going to back down from your views and figure out whether or not this will be positive or negative for your relationship. |
| flash00. 30.04.2005 10:10 |
geeksandgeeks wrote: Or actually, anyone, help me out. I have been seeing an amazing young man for quite a period, and for the past couple of weeks everything has just fallen right into place. The problem is, he's a deeply religious Christian, and you all know what I think about religion. We're both willing to accept our differences on that; it's not an issue. But he confessed to me tonight that he's worried about me with regards to the afterlife. We have quite a while to wait before that comes into play, but I feel a bit guilty. i wouldn't worry sweatheart your not going to hell he should not be saying those things to you if he respects you, imo love transends religion and if there is a god isnt he all about love? my opinion is live life to the full and treat every day as if its your last, if he loves you or respects you he'll respect your beliefs. i'm no religious nut but i do believe there is an after life be it god or whatever and imo i think there is a special little place for the ones who take another mans life which isnt his to take. in short geeks if he wont accept you as you are then seek someone who will. So, question to people with somewhat more religion than I have: could you love someone who, according to your upbringing, was headed straight down the road to hell? And if so, how would you deal with that? I neither can nor am I willing to change my whole belief system, but I'd like to make this easier on both of us. |
| brENsKi 30.04.2005 11:08 |
<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: He shouldn't be worried. In fact, 'hell' wasn't included in Christianity until the middle ages, so several hundreds of years after Christ. The jews still don't have it. So, as I said, he shouldn't worry.Not as i understand it. the bibles were writtne in the early fourth century AD, after pope Constantine called a meeting @ Nicosea. the gospels we compiled from 40+ original "gospels" and Luke's gospel - which definitely includes Hell was included - see below: According to Luke 16:19-28 nobody can pass from Hell to Heaven or vice versa, and fire is not the only torment, thirst being another, and more that are not described; in this biblical paragraph it is also mentioned that the souls that are in Hell can see those that are in Heaven and vice versa, but nothing is said of the sight of God; those that are in Hell can see the happiness reigning in Heaven, and those in Heaven do not feel compassion for the others in Hell. THE PAIN AND FIRE OF HELL WILL NEVER END: "Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast INTO EVERLASTING FIRE... TO BE CAST INTO HELL FIRE." (St. Matthew 18:8-9) |
| Brimon 30.04.2005 11:28 |
I'd much rather someone worried about me in the nowlife, rather than the afterlife. Bloody religion. |
| Flashman 30.04.2005 13:22 |
Gad, he sounds like a fruitloop to me. He might be alright for practising with, but I wouldn't get too serious. Devout, my eye! Tell him there's nowt devout about that bulge in his trousers next time he gets up close and personal. Who wants to go to Heaven anyway? Full of boring old farts with sensible haircuts and corduroy, by the sound of it. Give me t'other shop any day. Jerry Lee Lewis versus Cliff Richard? Pfft, no contest! |
| Mr.Jingles 30.04.2005 13:46 |
From my own experience Mandy. My girlfriend happened to be raised protestant, but she says that she doesn't believe in Jesus but still believes in God which makes her agnostic in a certain sense. I happen to be a christian, but taken the conditions of how corrupt and hypocritical are christian institution I don't consider myself a follower of any of them. The only reason why this relationship has worked despite the differences is because we're not too religious ourselves. My very own advice Mandy would be to tell him to avoid religious conversations, and see what his reaction will be. |
| Lisser 30.04.2005 14:22 |
Manders....you already said you both can agree to disagree....stick with him until your heart AND brain tell you otherwise. Have fun!! Don't worry too much, it gives you wrinkles!!! EWWWW!!!! :) |
| Mr.Jingles 30.04.2005 14:25 |
<font color=purple>Miss James wrote: For me personally, I wouldn't date someone who doesn't share my belief system simply because I would already know that problems would occur. It is basically an understanding that I have that I will date someone that I I know I could possibly marry eventually and I would want that person to be Christian, so we would be on track with everything. Even if a person loves another person who doesn't share the same beliefs, those two people are STILL capable of (eventually) getting into nasty religious debates. And if they don't, they probably always choose their words wisely.That's very true, Amanda. I believe that religious differences in a relationship are something that is very likely to bring conflict, but it also depends on how deeply religious are a man and a woman. The more religious either one is, the more likely it is that the relationship wouldn't work and completely fall apart. There can be religious differences that could still make a relationship work but only as long as both can be moderately religious, and be able to accept the differences from their significant others. Another thing that can bring a relationship into even more religious conflict is children. When parents disagree about how religiously raise their children, you can nearly see a divorce coming on the way. |
| deleted user 30.04.2005 18:03 |
"Another thing that can bring a relationship into even more religious conflict is children. When parents disagree about how religiously raise their children, you can nearly see a divorce coming on the way." - Exactly, Dan. That is one of the biggest reasons why I have chosen to date men that share my belief system. I wouldn't want to raise my children in a family where I and my husband disagree on something like religion. That would only cause potential harm to the child, I think. |
| Mr.Jingles 30.04.2005 19:41 |
I've heard of a lot of couples here in NY that decide to marry despite one being from one religion and the other person from another (the most common one I've seen is christian/jewish couples) and they still manage to have an (apparently) successful marriage. The funny thing is that many christian/jewish couples seem to get along better than people who are protestant/catholic, even though this last one happens to be far more similar on their religious beliefs for being both christian. I however never had the chance to ask any of them how do they work it out to put the differences aside without destroying the relationship. |
| Brimon 30.04.2005 20:19 |
You just do Mr. Jingles. I'm a catholic and my wife is Hindu. And believe me, when you love someone so much, religion does'nt come into it. You'll do whatever it takes to be with that person. It is'nt easy, we've had some really shitty times, but you do it, if you love them. |
| Janet 30.04.2005 20:31 |
When I met my husband, I was Protestant and he was Catholic. I made it clear right from the very beginning that I would not be turning Catholic, nor would I be raising my child/children to be Catholic. I basically gave him the opportunity to decide if he wanted to be with me despite our differences, before things got more serious between us. It turned out that even though he was raised in the Catholic church, my husband had serious issues with alot of the church's practices,and was not happy with alot of it, and he was only too happy to get married in my church, and to raise our son in the Protestant religion. His mother had issues with it for awhile, and made a bit of a stink, but we stuck to our guns, and after awhile she backed down and that was that. |
| KillerQueen840 30.04.2005 20:38 |
Janet wrote: When I met my husband, I was Protestant and he was Catholic. I made it clear right from the very beginning that I would not be turning Catholic, nor would I be raising my child/children to be Catholic. I basically gave him the opportunity to decide if he wanted to be with me despite our differences, before things got more serious between us. It turned out that even though he was raised in the Catholic church, my husband had serious issues with alot of the church's practices,and was not happy with alot of it, and he was only too happy to get married in my church, and to raise our son in the Protestant religion. His mother had issues with it for awhile, and made a bit of a stink, but we stuck to our guns, and after awhile she backed down and that was that.That's sorta like my parents, too. My mum is Catholic and my dad is Protestant. But my bro and I are Catholic. |
| KillerQueen840 30.04.2005 20:47 |
<font color=purple>Miss James wrote: "Another thing that can bring a relationship into even more religious conflict is children. When parents disagree about how religiously raise their children, you can nearly see a divorce coming on the way." - Exactly, Dan. That is one of the biggest reasons why I have chosen to date men that share my belief system. I wouldn't want to raise my children in a family where I and my husband disagree on something like religion. That would only cause potential harm to the child, I think.Everything worked out great with my brother and I. My dad even goes to Church with us every week, so we go as a family. :-) |
| Saint Jiub 01.05.2005 00:08 |
My wife and I have been married for 14 - 1/2 years and have two boys. She is Catholic ... and I ceased being a practicing Catholic 19 - 1/2 years ago. She is raising the kids Catholic and I generally stay out of it. I conceded the religious upbringing issue, knowing that it would not harm the kids, and realizing that my views of religion were not quite mainstream. |
| Farlander 01.05.2005 00:28 |
Rip Van Winkle wrote: My wife and I have been married for 14 - 1/2 years and have two boys. She is Catholic ... and I ceased being a practicing Catholic 19 - 1/2 years ago. She is raising the kids Catholic and I generally stay out of it. I conceded the religious upbringing issue, knowing that it would not harm the kids, and realizing that my views of religion were not quite mainstream.But you haven't stayed out of it. Your lack of contribution is as big a factor as if you had actively contributed. What the children will get into their heads is that religion is just a thing to do and it doesn't really matter. This is the danger in mixed marriages for people who truly wish to pass on their faith. And oddly enough, it isn't usually the children who lose religion in this situation - it's the grandchildren. Not that I'm suggesting you should have done something different. It's that in marriage, it is not possible for one parent to stay out of the religious upbringing of the children; their action - or inaction - will always be a large part of that area of development. |
| Saint Jiub 01.05.2005 00:46 |
"What the children will get into their heads is that religion is just a thing to do and it doesn't really matter." Fine by me - my kids will hopefuly turn out ok - with or without religion. I do think "religion is a thing to do and that it doesn't really matter." |
| wstüssyb 01.05.2005 02:11 |
My wife is Cathloic, for me I tend to totally ignore religion, to many things that go on in this world for me to simply follow a religion. If I were to give advice, I would do what Janet said she did Geeks, lay down what you think and tell him now, so down he dont get the idea that some where down the road he can put ideas to change your mind. |
| geeksandgeeks 01.05.2005 22:21 |
Well, thank you all for the thoughtful responses. Never would have thunk we could all have this deep a conversation, eh? Janet - I've done approximately what you said to do. I basically laid down my entire belief system, monkeys and all, for him to sort through. Then he asked me if there was anything at all I had faith in, and after a bit of consideration (how can you expect another person to think when it's thirty degrees outside? Stupid Ohio River Valley) I said yes, I thought there was. And he said that as long as I wasn't entirely faithless, that would do, because he believes that all good people go to heaven as long as they had something that passes for faith. He'd been worried because I had jokingly referred to myself as "faithless" more than once (nice job, Mandy, foot-in-mouth disease strikes again). And yeah, to those who believe this relationship doesn't have a prayer (oh, ick, that was horrible), I didn't think so either at first ("You go to church HOW often?"). Thing is, I would kind of like to see this one continue for a while - this is the first guy I have ever dated who doesn't seem likely to leave me for another man (I have a BAD track record with dating gay guys). Thanks once again for the help. I'm hoping this one works out, at least for the time being. (Side note to Flashman: You wacky, twisted bloke! I love you! Please stay away from my house!) |
| dragonzflame 02.05.2005 06:25 |
Bit late for this - but what's with all this raising kids in a particular faith? Why do people fight over what religion their children are brought up in? I guess if both parents share the same faith then it's easy enough but those who believe different things, what's wrong with encouraging the kids to look into religion themselves and decide what they want to be? I don't seem to be seeing much of that in this discussion and it seems to me so obvious - it's fully how I intend to raise my family. And good to hear that things worked out for you g&g! Sometimes a good talk is all you need. |
| Hitman 02.05.2005 06:30 |
Farlander wrote: Geeks, You say he is deeply religious. I don't doubt you, but I have a hard time understanding how a deeply religious person could become so deeply involved with someone whose very philosophy flies in the face of everything he supposedly holds most true. What thought process even gets you to that point? How can you have a deep connection with someone whose view of the universe is completely opposite to your own? Why would you even want to be in a relationship like that? The reason, I suspect, is because he is young and overwhelmed by his feelings for you, and doesn't know how to put that in the proper perspective. Making decisions based on feelings leads to disaster almost every time. Because feelings come and go, change, and grow. Some day you will not be quite so beautiful to him and the spark will have gone out of things for you too. Your mutual interests will long have since played themselves out. What then? All that that will be left will be the two of you and who you are on the deepest level. If that doesn't match up, things will be very difficult for you. Because if he loves you, he will never stop trying to convert you. How can you love someone and not persist in trying to share the truth with her? And you. If you love him and truly want what's best for him, how can you stand to watch him waste his life away on a lie? It is the love that will breed the conflict. And life is difficult enough without being locked into eternal philosophical struggle with your partner. You may say you can live with your differing beliefs, but if those beliefs are truly believed with conviction, that will never really happen. My suggestion to you is to end this right away. Let him find a nice Christian girl who can be what he needs. And you find someone who can give you what you need. I've been through this before, and it is difficult. You have my sympathy. Whatever the two of you decide, it will not be easy for either one of you.this is the best reply i have read in this topic, Mandy. Consider farlander's words. |
| Lisser 02.05.2005 10:36 |
Lorenzooo, noooooo!! Mandy and her boyfriend need to not worry about anything. If it's love, nothing will be able to separate them!! NOTHING!!! Mandy, I agree about this damn Ohio river valley!! I'm PISSED about the weather!! It is supposed to be nice this week though. Are you going to Breakthru? |
| Mr.Jingles 02.05.2005 10:39 |
Lisser wrote: Lorenzooo, noooooo!! Mandy and her boyfriend need to not worry about anything. If it's love, nothing will be able to separate them!! NOTHING!!!That kinda reminds me about an extremely popular romantic chick flick about a sinking giant boat. "I'll never let go, Mandy. I'll never let go!" |
| Hitman 02.05.2005 10:39 |
well Melissa, why don't you add me to msn and talk about it? ;) i'm online... |
| Lisser 02.05.2005 10:43 |
Hitman wrote: well Melissa, why don't you add me to msn and talk about it? ;) i'm online...ohhhhhhhhhhh, I'd LOOOOVE to but I'm at work right now!!! I can't get on msn here!! :( Damn work!!! ;) |
| Hitman 02.05.2005 10:59 |
ok, save your reasons in a "word" file and add me to your list when you come back home...after you give a kiss to your kids and take care of them, of course :) |
| Lisser 02.05.2005 13:24 |
Hitman wrote: ok, save your reasons in a "word" file and add me to your list when you come back home...after you give a kiss to your kids and take care of them, of course :)I'm gonna marry you some day Lorenzo!!! ;) |
| Flashman 02.05.2005 14:41 |
...and have a passionate but volatile affair with Flashy behind your back ;) |
| Lisser 02.05.2005 15:01 |
Flashman wrote: ...and have a passionate but volatile affair with Flashy behind your back ;)Bwuahahahhahaaaaaaaa!! Don't tell!! ;) |
| The Mir@cle 02.05.2005 15:07 |
Lisser wrote: Manders....you already said you both can agree to disagree....stick with him until your heart AND brain tell you otherwise. Have fun!! Don't worry too much, it gives you wrinkles!!! EWWWW!!!! :)I like your point of view Lisser, although Farlander approach is more realistic I think. I can't really help you Mandy, never been in such a situation. I'm not religious at all and I can't imagine that a religion can be a fatal hurdle between two lovers. But I know in some cases, it is. |
| geeksandgeeks 02.05.2005 16:50 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote:*curls up like a boiled shrimp and dies*Lisser wrote: Lorenzooo, noooooo!! Mandy and her boyfriend need to not worry about anything. If it's love, nothing will be able to separate them!! NOTHING!!!That kinda reminds me about an extremely popular romantic chick flick about a sinking giant boat. "I'll never let go, Mandy. I'll never let go!" |
| bellydancer 02.05.2005 18:21 |
Dear Geeks When you are in a relationship, it is important to be openly and honestly the person that you are. Whilst everyone can seek to improve themselves, when it comes to core beliefs such as this, the partner must accept in loving that person that is who they are. I will give you an example - my husband when he was way younger fell in with a girl that was a member of Assembly of God. She insisted that he come to meetings and to church and he, in wanting to please her did. My husband has since being a teenager had a love affair with music and the "Elders" of the Church made him feel so guilty about his collection that they made him get rid of it - I'm talking BURNING all the music they consider "evil". He eventually left them and the girl when they tried to take half of his wages as "donations to the church" and also tried to convince him that because his family weren't Assembly of God members that they were a "bad influence". Today he regrets having listened to them and her in the first place - simply just to please a girl. Geeks, be yourself. Sooner or later cracks will start in a relationship if you are not. Resentment eventually grows and it becomes destructive to you and him. Besides, if the young man is a true Christian, one should not feel guilty about their faith as isn't a relationship with God based on love and understanding? |
| geeksandgeeks 02.05.2005 21:38 |
bellydancer wrote: Dear Geeks When you are in a relationship, it is important to be openly and honestly the person that you are. Whilst everyone can seek to improve themselves, when it comes to core beliefs such as this, the partner must accept in loving that person that is who they are. I will give you an example - my husband when he was way younger fell in with a girl that was a member of Assembly of God. She insisted that he come to meetings and to church and he, in wanting to please her did. My husband has since being a teenager had a love affair with music and the "Elders" of the Church made him feel so guilty about his collection that they made him get rid of it - I'm talking BURNING all the music they consider "evil". He eventually left them and the girl when they tried to take half of his wages as "donations to the church" and also tried to convince him that because his family weren't Assembly of God members that they were a "bad influence". Today he regrets having listened to them and her in the first place - simply just to please a girl. Geeks, be yourself. Sooner or later cracks will start in a relationship if you are not. Resentment eventually grows and it becomes destructive to you and him. Besides, if the young man is a true Christian, one should not feel guilty about their faith as isn't a relationship with God based on love and understanding?Now that was a nice post. I think we've both accepted that getting the other to change their beliefs would be like trying to grow seaweed in the Atacama. I don't want him to, anyway - I don't expect anyone to give up something that is that big a part of their life, and if it makes him happy, then who would I be to take that away? As for me, even though I have no religion, I like to think of myself as a spiritual person. For now I think that'll do. And Lisser, I knew there was a reason I wuved you :P |
| Lisser 03.05.2005 10:24 |
geeksandgeeks wrote:I wuv you too little Bluebird.bellydancer wrote: Dear Geeks When you are in a relationship, it is important to be openly and honestly the person that you are. Whilst everyone can seek to improve themselves, when it comes to core beliefs such as this, the partner must accept in loving that person that is who they are. I will give you an example - my husband when he was way younger fell in with a girl that was a member of Assembly of God. She insisted that he come to meetings and to church and he, in wanting to please her did. My husband has since being a teenager had a love affair with music and the "Elders" of the Church made him feel so guilty about his collection that they made him get rid of it - I'm talking BURNING all the music they consider "evil". He eventually left them and the girl when they tried to take half of his wages as "donations to the church" and also tried to convince him that because his family weren't Assembly of God members that they were a "bad influence". Today he regrets having listened to them and her in the first place - simply just to please a girl. Geeks, be yourself. Sooner or later cracks will start in a relationship if you are not. Resentment eventually grows and it becomes destructive to you and him. Besides, if the young man is a true Christian, one should not feel guilty about their faith as isn't a relationship with God based on love and understanding?Now that was a nice post. I think we've both accepted that getting the other to change their beliefs would be like trying to grow seaweed in the Atacama. I don't want him to, anyway - I don't expect anyone to give up something that is that big a part of their life, and if it makes him happy, then who would I be to take that away? As for me, even though I have no religion, I like to think of myself as a spiritual person. For now I think that'll do. And Lisser, I knew there was a reason I wuved you :P ;) |