| miraclesteinway 16.05.2020 16:49 |
Has anyone else noticed that Freddie's "ooooh" in Mad the Swine at 2:07 sounds more like a 1989-91 addition than something from the 1972 take? The quality of the voice is Innuendo-era in my opinion, and I suspect he added when they remixed it. What does everyone else here think? |
| ElthonBowie 16.05.2020 18:11 |
Thanks link |
| Supersonic_Man89 16.05.2020 19:00 |
Interesting... never noticed it before, but i do hear what you mean. |
| Dim 17.05.2020 10:22 |
No it isn't. |
| matt z 17.05.2020 17:16 |
Good catch! I honestly am not a big fan of the song. When i eventually got my copy of QUEEN it was also with CROWN JEWELS (Hollywood cruddy boxed set of the first 8) so it omitted the bonus tracks. It DOES sound like an overdub at a later stage. The grit AND quality of the grit of Freddie's voice. Maybe they felt it was lacking Brian's hopefully going to come out of this gluteal problem ....But until then I'm not sure he'll have an active anti-social media presence. That's a GREAT question to ask him |
| Dim 17.05.2020 19:43 |
Having a great sound system I just listen both original vinyl 12 inch single and cd as the 2011 bonus. No it isn't. Is just Freddie early voice with this little thin harsh. I can understand the confusion, because In 89 90 Freddie was thinner and didn't drink and smoke as much as he used to do. So his voice became more thick and sweet with some harsh. It was closer to 80-81 period but sounded older. If you check how the next vocal goes everything is natural. |
| miraclesteinway 17.05.2020 19:52 |
I would like to ask Brian May but honestly I don't know if he would reply. Maybe Roger would reply?? Shame we can't ask Freddie. The song was only released in 1991 wasn't it? After the original was cut in 1972, and this is where I might agree with Dim actually, it seems an odd thing to put in to the song on a remix. On one hand I can't imagine Freddie saying "let me just stick in an "oooh" here", but on the other hand I can imagine him saying exactly that "and let's see who catches on to it!" Dim, I haven't listened to this song on good speakers in a very long time. I have the Headlong CD single from '91, and I remember thinking at the time that the "Oooh" sounded a little more 'Innuendo' period vocal. Hey, I've been wrong before so it may well be an early example of his growl! Freddie didn't seem to sing much with that quality on the earliest recordings, and on the bonus tracks on the 2011 first album release Freddie's voice actually sounds rather weak. He worked very hard to fashion himself into this great singer - the raw material was always there of course, and the ear, but the voice developed over time as we all talk about on this forum rather often. I don't know many singers whose voice changed as much as Freddie's over their career, and yet who remains instantly recognisable throughout every recording. |
| matt z 18.05.2020 11:13 |
Yes, it's grim but Freddie's voice kind of went back to his youthful clear voice before taking on a much thinner variant. The smoking and drinking had husked it up in the 80's. But when you say you've heard the original vinyl single Dim... u mean the b-side from 1991? Hadn't this also been remixed by David Richards? Has the original mix ever been released? Or has the public only gotten the touched up versions? Also not to be grim. . But different matters may have been on Freddie's mind as he'd also finished off "Africa By Night"/ ALL GOD'S PEOPLE during the time that song selections would've come up. Although Freddie was dismissive about his lyrics for the most part, both songs would seem to focus on "don't turn your back on these lessons" be good to one another etc. It's strange that they revisited this ONLY... hangman still hasn't seen the light of day. Regarding the decision to revisit and release MAD THE SWINE... who's was it? And considering that the band were generally unhappy with the original KYA mix, It could be possible they revisited the MTS mix to add a few touches before it reached the public? As touched on above, Freddie wasn't really using that tone of voice at the time on any other recordings. I know there was a previous QZ thread which was speculating where the song may have fit on the original sequencing of the album...(after GREAT KING RAT ) And why the fade in was done As a stand alone it makes sense that the band might have felt that the close of the song needed a little more "gusto" but. ..hey it's all speculation. Considering that a proper remix couldn't be done doesn't rule out any quick overdub. |
| Dim 18.05.2020 11:31 |
Yes the b/side on 12 inch single, the original b/side for 45 single is All God's people. I found this video his from John S Stewart, Line-up: Freddie Mercury (vocals), Brian May (guitar), Roger Meddows Taylor (drums), Deacon John (bass). Recorded June – Nov 1972. Released 13th July 1973. Produced by John Anthony, Roy Thomas Baker & Queen at Trident Studios, London, for Neptune Productions. Engineered by Roy Thomas Baker, Mike Stone, Ted Sharpe & Dave Hertschel. Night Comes Down recorded by Louie Austin. Mad The Swine US 1991 3:23 Remix Queen: US 1991 Hollywood HR-61064-2 Original Trident Studio Version Unreleased: (Roger Taylor & Roy Thomas Baker argued about the strength of drums in the final mix, so eventually dropped. Originally featured between Great King Rat & My Fairy King. 1991 release NOT a remix but a remaster). When "Mad The Swine" safety master was flown out to Dave Richards in 1991, the band knew that it could not be "remixed" but it could be "enhanced" - ie a cleaner reproduction which could be EQ'd - but not classically "remixed". So it is the "same" version. To make maters worse, and to show that "Mad The Swine" did come from the safety master (and not from the actual master mixes) the version we know and love has actually been cut by about one or two seconds. Right at the end of "Great King Rat", Roger ends on a final drum solo (Roll?). This solo fades out to a stop, and "My Fairy King" starts with a clean guitar intro. You can hear this still - whatever version of the disc you have. But "Mad The Swine" used to sit between both before it was removed from the final album. What should have happened is that Roger's final drum solo was ever so slightly longer and it segued into "Mad The Swine". Obviously to start the 1991 version of "Mad The Swine" with the final (bar?) beat of a faded drumroll sounded "incorrect" - but there was no way that this final beat could be removed. (If they had the master mixes this would have been no problem - but because it was from a safety master - it could not be "un-mixed" or removed). So to overcome this problem, they simply "cut-out", the final drumbeat and edited "Mad The Swine" to start a second or so later. You can still hear this today - if you know what you are listening for. The track should begin "I've been here before". (notice the word "I've"). But because the "tail" of the final "Great King Rat" segue coincided with "I've" - "I've" was cut from the final edit - so the song now begins "Been here before". (I think "I've been..." is the actual official lyric). "Great King Rat" posed no such problem, because the track was faded out a second or so earlier - the segue did not exist. Link : link |
| Negative Creep 18.05.2020 12:47 |
With all due respect to John S Stuart (RIP) - none of that made ANY sense. He simply didn't know what tape they used, or whether it was remixed or not. The talk about the drum roll from Great King Rat was nonsensical. They wouldn't have recorded the 2 songs together - any stereo album master would have had the individual song masters taped together, and could be separated at a later date. I wouldn't believe they'd overlap the drums from GKR over the first word of another song to begin with. The reference to My Fairy king doesn't make sense, because they clearly faded the drums out before it started? Looking at the spectrum frequency grap in Audacity - there's no abrupt edit between GKR and MFK. This is simple stuff. The released version of Mad The Swine has tape noise and a guitar note prior to "been here" - they didn't abruptly cut off the alleged "I've" from a vintage mix. Open it up in Audacity, select Spectrum frequency graph and zoom it to see for yourself. The release version is either a new mix, and they actively or mistakely removed "I've" - or it's the vintage mix and the "I've" thing is just bollocks. The credits say the song was remixed - I don't think David Richards would have taken a mix credit for something he didn't mix. Mastering (with EQing is) doesn't constitute mixing. Out of interest - has anyone ever heard this version with "I've" present? I remember having an mp3 and it was just the releases version with an "I've" edited onto the beginning - strangely with no overlapped drums. Explain that! JSS also posted somewhere listing the Strange Frontier mixes on CD as being different the original LP release, which they aren't. He was a massive collector and trader, but far from infallible with info. |
| Dim 18.05.2020 18:10 |
He spoke as collector who is searching for every detail of every released version of song. There he might found this info. His point is for the the safety master. If they remixed mad the swine, it would be good for remixing the whole album, as well the Jazz, the miracle. Interesting enough is that on the official YT Chanel Keep yourself alive and Radio ga ga are 2011 remix. Does anybody know something about these remixes? |
| Negative Creep 18.05.2020 18:57 |
Dim wrote: He spoke as collector who is searching for every detail of every released version of song. There he might found this info.Well, unfortunately in this case he was wrong - I did point this out several years ago, but he didn't respond. The whole story you quoted above is just nonsense. For my money - as credited, it was 100% remixed for the '91 release. The mix is vastly superior to anything else on the debut album. The vintage album mixes are kind of low res, in that most of the instrumentation tops out at 15khz - not so with Mad The Swine. And yes, that "ooh" does sound like a later overdub - how very interesting and odd! |
| Jeremy 19.05.2020 07:22 |
Regarding the "Oooh", I've wondered about that since I first bought the cd in the late 90's.. I have come to believe that it was just 70's Freddie straining his voice a little to sound a bit harsh. These are the kinds of topics that I love. On a similar note, does anyone feel that Freddie's vocal on the second half of "All God's People" (Then I went into a dream) sounds like it was recorded during the actual Innuendo sessions as opposed to during the earlier 1987 sessions for the song? |
| miraclesteinway 19.05.2020 14:44 |
"All Prim-in-isiters"..... I hadn't ever thought about All God's People's lead vocal being done in anything other than the Innuendo sessions but now you say it, I can hear what you mean. The main vocals actually do sound a little bit more "Magic/Miracle" era, and that "Rule with your heart" in the second half does sound more like a 1990 vocal (where Roger and Brian add to the harmonies). I think previously I'd just heard the complete song and not thought about it being recorded in different takes over such a long period. The difference on the Innuendo sessions - and in some ways he does this on some Miracle tracks as well - is that he sings in head voice more for the high notes. I know there are some singing experts on here who will correct my terminology (actually I took a secondary in classical singing *for fun* while in undergrad, I'm a piano major), but I just mean he had stopped pushing from the chest. There is a rumour going around London that Freddie was introduced to the vocal coach Mary Hammond through Elton John and went to her - and that Montserrat also taught him a few new techniques. It's quite possible that he knew he wouldn't have quite the sheer muscular force by then and needed a new way to get the high notes. Whatever happened, that sound on the Innuendo album is a *trained* sound. Marry Hammond incidentally would neither confirm nor deny that she worked with Freddie, but you can be almost certain that if that rumour is going around London, *something* happened. Mary has worked with Liza Minelli, Chris Martin, Elton John, and many many others - probably Peter Straker (they'll CERTAINLY know each other). The way Freddie blended his head voice - and by head voice I just mean that kind of slightly falsetto sounding high note - with his chest voice in the 89-91 sessions was masterful, and I'd hazard a guess that it's a taught technique. So there you go. My theory on his vocal change on the late albums is that he had vocal training. Lots of famous singers have done it and then said to the media they've never trained. Peter Freestone isn't going to break the spell either. |
| MyHumanZoo 19.05.2020 18:06 |
I never noticed that on Mad the Swine, but now you say it, it does sound like his later year’s voice. But I would say a few of the fill-ins that happens later are also from the later time. There is an “oh yeah” and a few others. I can’t imagine going to the trouble of adding just that single “ooh” that really can’t be heard much anyway. So putting in a few other fillers makes sense to me. (Although the experts here will probably prove me wrong!) On “All God’s People” it also a little different in the second half, I can hear it. Steinway...where do you feel the later voice starts? I am mainly wondering about the middle section at about 1:50, where the beat slows and becomes bluesy. Is that slower section done in an earlier recording or during Innuendo, do you think? Kind of hard for me to distinguish. |
| miraclesteinway 19.05.2020 18:24 |
Sebastian actually knows most about which sessions were done when and where, so if he can chime in he'll probably be able to tell you whether All God's People's lead vocal was recorded in two sessions or one. It seems to me the change is after "then I went into a dream", but I could be hearing something that isn't there. |
| Sebastian 23.05.2020 14:10 |
I really don't. I ignore 99.99% of what happened there and have always admitted so. I'd love to learn more and reading what all of you have written here has been fab! |
| Wilki Amieva 28.05.2020 13:27 |
I've discussed this privately with John S. Stuart ...a long time after his post. I know that David Richards remixed Mad The Swine from the *original multitrack master tape* that was found in 1990 while digging the Queen vault (literally a vault then). I've talked both with the late David and with Kevin Metcalfe, who was there when they found the tape. So, it was a remix and nothing should be missing from the start AFAIK. |
| Dane 28.05.2020 14:01 |
Also remember that in every era in pop music different styles of singing are used. Best example being the BeeGees going bollocks high in the 70s. So although Freddie would have had this type of voice in his arsenal (certainly not perfected), it might not have been considered 'the' way to sing back then. |