QueenZone discussion #1450295

Oscar J wrote: ^ No it's not. The terrorists are knob-heads first and foremost, not muslims. The Quran does not promote aggression, violence or terrorism. Trump, an openly Christian man, talked about lining up and shooting muslims with bullets dipped in pig blood as an example how they need to "get tough" to save America. The crowd was absolutely roaring with excitement, and so was probably millions of Americans at home watching it on the TV. Does that make Christianity a religion of violence? And by "Middle Ages" I assume you mean the 1940's.

Mr.Jingles wrote: Comparing Muslims to Islamic terrorists is like comparing football fanatics to hooligans.

Oscar J wrote: Funny you'd mention Hinduism by the way - if there's any religion I find hard to see much good in, it's that one.

Oscar J wrote: ParisNair: I wish I had put that more delicately. I really mean no disrespect - but the religion itself is in many ways every bit as patriarchal as Christianity or Islam, and has the caste system which just seems so fundamentally wrong to me.

Oscar J wrote: Speaking of ignorance - I take it you're not aware it was muslim mathematicians who gave us algebra?

The Fairy King wrote: There's a shift going on within the Muslim community, but it the danger is the pressure the Western world is putting on it. They don't get to evolve naturally (that is arguable i know) like the Christians, but with a lot of force. That is one of the problems.

ParisNair wrote:

The Fairy King wrote: There's a shift going on within the Muslim community, but it the danger is the pressure the Western world is putting on it. They don't get to evolve naturally (that is arguable i know) like the Christians, but with a lot of force. That is one of the problems.

The shift within the community is towards greater radicalism. And radicalizing youth is much easier in today's IT enabled age. A video or a picture can be taken from anywhere and used to cause offense and fuel hatred (hence my disclaimer for that German video). Cue the many western born and bred Muslims making a bee line to go to wage jihad in Syria and Daesh. Another shift that is happening, is people moving away from the religion. By some estimates, Islam has the largest number of adherents leaving the religion, more than any other religon. But most of these apostates hide their status in real life, for fear of being killed. They hide this fact even from their own spouces, kids and parents. Till they can find a way to seek refuge in the west.

Oscar J wrote: I completely agree that a countrys legal system should be completely independent from its religion(s). I'm not sure I agree religion itself is the biggest obstacle though, I think it has more to do with power, corruption and greed, but often camouflaged with religion as a means or excuse for inequality and opression. No need to laugh or cry - my comment aimed to nuance the view many have that all Islamic countries are inequal, opress women, etc. Even in Iran which has obvious problems with equality, there are glimpses of hope as, for example, women are very proficient in the academic world there. Not to say they outperform western countries overall, because they certainly do not.

The Fairy King wrote:

ParisNair wrote:

The Fairy King wrote: There's a shift going on within the Muslim community, but it the danger is the pressure the Western world is putting on it. They don't get to evolve naturally (that is arguable i know) like the Christians, but with a lot of force. That is one of the problems.

The shift within the community is towards greater radicalism. And radicalizing youth is much easier in today's IT enabled age. A video or a picture can be taken from anywhere and used to cause offense and fuel hatred (hence my disclaimer for that German video). Cue the many western born and bred Muslims making a bee line to go to wage jihad in Syria and Daesh. Another shift that is happening, is people moving away from the religion. By some estimates, Islam has the largest number of adherents leaving the religion, more than any other religon. But most of these apostates hide their status in real life, for fear of being killed. They hide this fact even from their own spouces, kids and parents. Till they can find a way to seek refuge in the west.

Yes, the West should realise it has a big part in the radicalisation of these youngsters, as they're often left with the feeling they don't matter. Especially when you look at world politics, IS, ISIS, Daesh or whatever it's called now, has found a way to show these kids their actions are just, based on the sentiment in the west towards the Islam. But also within the western countries there is something brewing that can't be undone so easily. There's too much injustice going on, which helps ISIS to recruit these kids. It's a two way street and people just seem to ignore that fact they are actually equally responsible for creating the monster. Not to oversimplify the matter, but it seems that there's a growing sentiment of us against them, which is too easy. Because that way you don't have to look at your self and be critical.

The Fairy King wrote: Yes, the West should realise it has a big part in the radicalisation of these youngsters, as they're often left with the feeling they don't matter. Especially when you look at world politics, IS, ISIS, Daesh or whatever it's called now, has found a way to show these kids their actions are just, based on the sentiment in the west towards the Islam. But also within the western countries there is something brewing that can't be undone so easily. There's too much injustice going on, which helps ISIS to recruit these kids. It's a two way street and people just seem to ignore that fact they are actually equally responsible for creating the monster. Not to oversimplify the matter, but it seems that there's a growing sentiment of us against them, which is too easy. Because that way you don't have to look at your self and be critical.

ParisNair wrote:

The Fairy King wrote: Yes, the West should realise it has a big part in the radicalisation of these youngsters, as they're often left with the feeling they don't matter. Especially when you look at world politics, IS, ISIS, Daesh or whatever it's called now, has found a way to show these kids their actions are just, based on the sentiment in the west towards the Islam. But also within the western countries there is something brewing that can't be undone so easily. There's too much injustice going on, which helps ISIS to recruit these kids. It's a two way street and people just seem to ignore that fact they are actually equally responsible for creating the monster. Not to oversimplify the matter, but it seems that there's a growing sentiment of us against them, which is too easy. Because that way you don't have to look at your self and be critical.

You don't see the Japanese, the Vietnamese. the Koreans, the Indians, the Israelis, the American Indians, the Africans, the Chinese blowing themselves up for avenging the deeds of the Americans/western countries on their nations. What exactly has the West done to the Arabs/Muslims of this world that it has not done to the these other peoples? The West is no saint, of course, but don't demonize the west just so you can apologize for terrorists. I reproduce one of the comments under the Youtube video that I shared in a previous post- "this is how Neo Nazis are created , when that roller boy gross up hes going to 6.6 250lbs of pissed off rage , and he will most likely stab and beat the crap out of hundreds of muslims in revenge . we reap what we sew .?"(sic)

The Fairy King wrote: To play innocent is kinda much though. I didn't say it was the only reason, but we have seen some fucked up things happen under the "war on terror" flag, don't you think the "west" kind of deserves some criticism? The problem isn't actually the Islam, it's that the west can't understand why the rest of the world might not want their version of "democracy", " freedom of speech" and "capitalism". It's hypocritical to say at least. Also i think there are some weird forces at play here and i don't think the general public is aware they are being used. The fact that you didn't read my comment and just started throwing weird examples my way is very typical. Are you bombing China? the Koreans?(not yet), Japan? Oh wait you bombed Japan...then what happened? Why would Israel bomb America? They make too much money off of them. The American Indians? They sure gave up their land without a fight... ....you see my point?

ParisNair wrote:

The Fairy King wrote: To play innocent is kinda much though. I didn't say it was the only reason, but we have seen some fucked up things happen under the "war on terror" flag, don't you think the "west" kind of deserves some criticism? The problem isn't actually the Islam, it's that the west can't understand why the rest of the world might not want their version of "democracy", " freedom of speech" and "capitalism". It's hypocritical to say at least. Also i think there are some weird forces at play here and i don't think the general public is aware they are being used. The fact that you didn't read my comment and just started throwing weird examples my way is very typical. Are you bombing China? the Koreans?(not yet), Japan? Oh wait you bombed Japan...then what happened? Why would Israel bomb America? They make too much money off of them. The American Indians? They sure gave up their land without a fight... ....you see my point?

It was not my point that west is beyond blame. And the west does face criticism and a whole lot of it, by westerners themselves. Try to criticism an Islamic govt in a similar manner and see where that takes you. You should check history, and you'll know what the west did in each of those places that you call weird examples. My point was that they did not get fixated on ideologies (religious or otherwise) and focused on nation building. Not the American Indians, ofcourse, they don't have a nation to call their own anymore. On the other hand, there are the Islamic countries, which don't seem to have the ability to look beyond the non-muslim = enemy = kill narrative. What do you mean by "rest of the world"? You think Islamic countries don't get aid (make money) off of the west? You are a classic example of what some have started terming "white-guilt all over again".

The Fairy King wrote: Where did you get the idea i'm "white" and i feel " guilty"? Don't act like you don't know what i mean. You gave a bunch of shitty examples and i clearly told u that shit won't fly. :D Talking out of your ass and then tell me to check history? C'mooooon. Get your heads out of the sand and see the bigger picture please.

Panchgani wrote: A Dutch coworker of mine who lives in Belgium (he is an international sales rep) told me (in February well before the suicide bombings) that the problem is 3rd generation Morraccans whose parents came to Belgium in the '40's for the mining industry. According to him, the Moraccans have disdain for the European culture and have no interest for assimilation. They harass and spit upon the indiginous Belgians, and of course the crime is horrendous. In the US we are genrally lucky (aside from San Bernardino). The vast majority of Muslums are moderate and have assimilated into America.

YourValentine wrote: Of course not all Muslim people act like that but there is a strong minority which also bullies liberal Muslims whenever possible.

Btw, the video you posted is genuine and already a few years old. The school in question was closed. It was in Berlin in a quarter with mainly immigrant families. The video shows the problem in a nutshell: German kids are taught to solve their conflicts in a peaceful way why Middle East kids solve all problems with violence. There is no respect for German teachers because the kids learn at home that Germans are just "kuffars" and the teachers have no ways to sanction the behaviour because the only way they would understand would be the teacher hitting them which is - of course - not allowed. I have to admit that I feel anger when I watch this video.

The Fairy King wrote: Queen's fanbase isn't purely white, you tit. :') That statement alone just totally ruined your credibility. If you had read my responses you wouldn't make such weird assumptions. Especially the "me blaming the West"part. I was saying i don't hear any word about the shit the West causes in the East in these kinds of threads. It's always the "other". Fucking grow up. Don't give me the crap about Christians or Jews not doing anything wrong. That's bull and you know it. If you in fact had studied "the serious issue of international Jihad" you would know where this is coming from. If you had studied the bloody thing you would come with better arguments than that.

So, for the record: -ISIS, IS, Daesh or whatever you call em these days is a product of Western negligence, backstabbing politics and total disregard of Middle Eastern lives with the fucking crimes they committed especially during the " war on terror". These guys have carte blanche. They think they have their God on their side. They got a way to alienate their brothers from the West, totally brainwash em because hey the West is evil, look at what they did the last 30 years. they fall for that crap. Why? Because in their heads it all makes sense. the same idiocy you see in the West when they look at the Islam. It's THEM against us. No it isn't. White guilt isn't even applicable here, because when there's a conflict, it is actually healthy to look at yourselves and evaluate what you might have done wrong in the past what could have also caused this. Maybe white-realist is the word you're looking for? Is it all the doing of the West? No, because within the Islam there's a problem as well. The interpretation of some verses, which can be regarded as totally fascist and hostile towards infadels, in the wrong hands can get dangerous. The Bible has some similar things going on, but hey...i guess there are no Christian nutbags out there? Do we hold Christianity responsible for the acts of (for example): Anders Breivik? The KKK? Anti-abortion violence? No we see them for what they are....nutbags. And that's how we should view IS. Also what i said earlier. The trend of giving Muslims the stink eye, alienating them, discrimination, etc is counter-productive as well. This shit happens now, but isn't really new. To finally tackle these guys, you need the Muslims to form a front. In the end, the most casualties aren't even "white". The most victims are actually on the Muslim side, blood on the hands of IS/Daesh, Assad, Israel, America and Russia. Again, not saying the West deserves it, but should realise it has a share in the blame, and should fucking unite people against these fucktards instead of creating more chasms.