QueenZone discussion #1445891

Biggus Dickus wrote: Also the sound on the new clips was crap.

The Real Wizard wrote:

Biggus Dickus wrote: Also the sound on the new clips was crap.

I so disagree. It sounds wonderfully clear. Although it's clearly gone through Pro Tools in a few places, it still sounds like it's from 1977. Can't say the same for Rainbow (November more so than March), Hammersmith and Milton Keynes - the snare is triggered on all three. MK is the worst. Unlistenable to me as a result. If they released a 2 hour Earls Court compilation with what we hear/see here, this may be the best Queen live release of all.

The Real Wizard wrote: Furthermore - a few years ago the rumour mill said Earls Court was unreleasable because the piano mic track is blank on the multi-tracks of both nights. The fact that Freddie is seen speaking at the piano before the song on the documentary all but quashes that theory. Who comes up with these things !? Thoughts?

Bad Seed wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: Furthermore - a few years ago the rumour mill said Earls Court was unreleasable because the piano mic track is blank on the multi-tracks of both nights. The fact that Freddie is seen speaking at the piano before the song on the documentary all but quashes that theory. Who comes up with these things !? Thoughts?

I believe that came direct from Jim Beach when asked by a fan. The fact that the only time we hear Freddie speak into the piano mic is still the same as the old bootleg makes me worry that the rumour is correct. Why would they do all of the work you mentioned yet not correct a simple error like that? I do hope you're right though!

on my way up wrote:

Bad Seed wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: Furthermore - a few years ago the rumour mill said Earls Court was unreleasable because the piano mic track is blank on the multi-tracks of both nights. The fact that Freddie is seen speaking at the piano before the song on the documentary all but quashes that theory. Who comes up with these things !? Thoughts?

I believe that came direct from Jim Beach when asked by a fan. The fact that the only time we hear Freddie speak into the piano mic is still the same as the old bootleg makes me worry that the rumour is correct. Why would they do all of the work you mentioned yet not correct a simple error like that? I do hope you're right though!

But, as the new footage - and especially audio - shows they are combining the music (instruments) from night 1 with the vocals from night 2.... And there's no reason to believe there was a problem with the piano mic on night 2. So, the following question: why not just release night 2? It has no piano mic problems, the performance is probably even better than the first night,... I think the simple answer to this question might be that they have more footage from night 1 (see '39 for example where they have already synched the second night audio to the first night video). And they like making compilations... In my perfect world they'd release: - the second night uncut in just audio format with whatever footage they have from night 2 on a blu-ray - the first night in full with patches from the second night in places where the equipment failed Since we're in Queen-world - which is far from perfect - I can settle with a compilation of boths nights :-)

jondickens1 wrote: I'm convinced this will be released next year along with Hyde Park as the bonus material. Like already mentioned,why go to tge trouble of fixing the audio for an hour documentart. I'd love Hyde Park in its entirety,however by the looks of the documentary I think the tape is too badly damaged. Not a betting man,burif I was id go for QPL releasing Earls Court bluray and cd release (an emalgamation of both nights a la Rock Montreal) with Hyde Park cd in the deluxe edition and video extracts of Hyde Park in the super deluxe box set.

Biggus Dickus wrote: If they don't have Freddie's piano mic on the multitracks, QPL might declare that as a reason for it to be unreleasable. Sure Freddie's voice from the piano mic is on the stereo mix but that might not be good enough for them cos they can't autotune it.

brians wig wrote:

jondickens1 wrote: I'm convinced this will be released next year along with Hyde Park as the bonus material. Like already mentioned,why go to tge trouble of fixing the audio for an hour documentart. I'd love Hyde Park in its entirety,however by the looks of the documentary I think the tape is too badly damaged. Not a betting man,burif I was id go for QPL releasing Earls Court bluray and cd release (an emalgamation of both nights a la Rock Montreal) with Hyde Park cd in the deluxe edition and video extracts of Hyde Park in the super deluxe box set.

I agree. 2016 will present us with a compiled Earls Court and a "best of" Hyde Park, since they're adamant they can't release the full concert of that.

The Real Wizard wrote: The minute of '39 on the From Rags To Rhapsody documentary sure is an interesting study. Clearly it's not identical to the Earls Court version of the song heard on the 2011 remaster of ANATO, which is entirely from the second night, June 7. Plenty of things indicate this, particularly Freddie's ad lib connecting the last two choruses. On the first night he says "all together" while it's "everybody" on the second. The former is used in the documentary, but the vocals (lead and backing) otherwise seem to be identical on the two versions. I tried playing the two versions side by side, and they don't remotely match up on first glance. Instrumentally it's all different, so at least musically speaking the two clips are definitely from the two different nights. So for the new documentary they used the backing tracks from the first night, the vocals from the second night (constantly adjusting the tempo to ensure it all matches), and switched to the first night for that one ad lib so that Freddie's vocal matches the footage. So the question is - why? Why was all this work done for a one minute clip in a documentary? Maybe the footage of the song from the second night is unusable? In that case, couldn't they have chosen another song that wouldn't have required so much work? My theory - the work has already been done. They've got an official release in the making, similar to the Rainbow '74 material, using a compilation of both nights. Furthermore - a few years ago the rumour mill said Earls Court was unreleasable because the piano mic track is blank on the multi-tracks of both nights. The fact that Freddie is seen speaking at the piano before the song on the documentary all but quashes that theory. Who comes up with these things !? Thoughts?

The Real Wizard wrote:

Biggus Dickus wrote: Also the sound on the new clips was crap.

I so disagree. It sounds wonderfully clear. Although it's clearly gone through Pro Tools in a few places, it still sounds like it's from 1977. Can't say the same for Rainbow (November more so than March), Hammersmith and Milton Keynes - the snare is triggered on all three. MK is the worst. Unlistenable to me as a result. If they released a 2 hour Earls Court compilation with what we hear/see here, this may be the best Queen live release of all.

Oscar J wrote: Same with Hammy, there are loads of EQing, compression, ducking, and reverb etc. going on there, but the characteristics from the bootleg's snare is still there somewhere. If you listen to Roger's frenetic snare work at the end of Now I'm Here, its acoustics just sound too natural to be triggered IMO. Not saying that the drum mixes are good though. Awful hihat, no body to the toms, and an extremely loud bass drum.

Negative Creep wrote:

Oscar J wrote: Same with Hammy, there are loads of EQing, compression, ducking, and reverb etc. going on there, but the characteristics from the bootleg's snare is still there somewhere. If you listen to Roger's frenetic snare work at the end of Now I'm Here, its acoustics just sound too natural to be triggered IMO. Not saying that the drum mixes are good though. Awful hihat, no body to the toms, and an extremely loud bass drum.

I think within QP and the Queen organization generally it's a case of jobs for the boys and keeping it in house. It would be far better to hire an engineer and producer who have successful track records in working with old live master tapes. Increasingly it's becoming more and more frustrating listening to what the band seem to pass on as high quality and or the best available. It's just weird how they're letting their sound team "produce" these things so much - archival stuff should surely be mixed to get the best out of the masters, not have some no mark have such a huge influence in completely changing every sonic detail to their own taste.

The Real Wizard wrote: If they released a 2 hour Earls Court compilation with what we hear/see here, this may be the best Queen live release of all.

on my way up wrote: So, the following question: why not just release night 2? It has no piano mic problems, the performance is probably even better than te first night,... I think the simple answer to this question might be that they have more footage from night 1 (see '39 for example where they have already synched the second night audio to the first night video). And they like making compilations... In my perfect world they'd release: - the second night uncut in just audio format with whatever footage they have from night 2 on a blu-ray - the first night in full with patches from the second night in places where the equipment failed

Biggus Dickus wrote: If they don't have Freddie's piano mic on the multitracks, QPL might declare that as a reason for it to be unreleasable. Sure Freddie's voice from the piano mic is on the stereo mix but that might not be good enough for them cos they can't autotune it.

Lord Fickle wrote: Unless I'm mistaken, they haven't yet released a complete concert from the archives, which wasn't previously available in one form or another, albeit only in part.

The Real Wizard wrote:

Lord Fickle wrote: Unless I'm mistaken, they haven't yet released a complete concert from the archives, which wasn't previously available in one form or another, albeit only in part.

Well, that's a pretty high bar to set, since a ton of shows were bootlegged. The chance that any complete pro-shot show from any band is just collecting dust without having come out on bootleg or shown in a documentary is pretty remote. But of all the releases, five shows are complete - Hammersmith (audio), Milton Keynes, Wembley (both), and Budapest (audio). Official releases will continue, but I doubt this particular list will be added to. Maybe Hyde Park or Hammersmith 79? Maybe.

Kevinrm15 wrote: All the archive footage in the documentary will be released if all goes well.

Kevinrm15 wrote: All the archive footage in the documentary will be released if all goes well.

Lord Fickle wrote: Somehow my reply didn't appear in the previous post

fras444 wrote: Do you think that they will give John deacons voice some auto tune or overdubs on in the lap of the gods or somebody to love. .? Or keep it original. .?

tomchristie22 wrote:

fras444 wrote: Do you think that they will give John deacons voice some auto tune or overdubs on in the lap of the gods or somebody to love. .? Or keep it original. .?

The other possibility is that they'll mute it completely, recreating the way the band intended the songs to sound on the night. I hope they'll leave John's vocals intact, but knowing their perfectionism, I doubt they will.

The Real Wizard wrote: The minute of '39 on the From Rags To Rhapsody documentary sure is an interesting study. Clearly it's not identical to the Earls Court version of the song heard on the 2011 remaster of ANATO, which is entirely from the second night, June 7. Plenty of things indicate this, particularly Freddie's ad lib connecting the last two choruses. On the first night he says "all together" while it's "everybody" on the second. The former is used in the documentary, but the vocals (lead and backing) otherwise seem to be identical on the two versions. I tried playing the two versions side by side, and they don't remotely match up on first glance. Instrumentally it's all different, so at least musically speaking the two clips are definitely from the two different nights. So for the new documentary they used the backing tracks from the first night, the vocals from the second night (constantly adjusting the tempo to ensure it all matches), and switched to the first night for that one ad lib so that Freddie's vocal matches the footage. So the question is - why? Why was all this work done for a one minute clip in a documentary? Maybe the footage of the song from the second night is unusable? In that case, couldn't they have chosen another song that wouldn't have required so much work? My theory - the work has already been done. They've got an official release in the making, similar to the Rainbow '74 material, using a compilation of both nights. Furthermore - a few years ago the rumour mill said Earls Court was unreleasable because the piano mic track is blank on the multi-tracks of both nights. The fact that Freddie is seen speaking at the piano before the song on the documentary all but quashes that theory. Who comes up with these things !? Thoughts?

Bad Seed wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: Furthermore - a few years ago the rumour mill said Earls Court was unreleasable because the piano mic track is blank on the multi-tracks of both nights. The fact that Freddie is seen speaking at the piano before the song on the documentary all but quashes that theory. Who comes up with these things !? Thoughts?

I believe that came direct from Jim Beach when asked by a fan. The fact that the only time we hear Freddie speak into the piano mic is still the same as the old bootleg makes me worry that the rumour is correct. Why would they do all of the work you mentioned yet not correct a simple error like that? I do hope you're right though!

The Real Wizard wrote: But the fact that the same level issue is there on the piano mic should pretty well indicate that Beach was right, at least about the first night. And chances are it'd be the same case for the second night, as nobody would review the tapes after the gig. It'd be absolutely tragic if that were the case. This would mean there is no multi-track of a complete Queen show for all of 77-78, their most interesting touring years as far as I'm concerned.

cmi wrote: ^ Compare the set lists of both.

Doga wrote: Are we sure both nights have the problem in the piano mic? With Rainbow, (i believe was Rhys???) who said they had to merge the two nights because one night have problems in some spots.

The Real Wizard wrote:

Doga wrote: Are we sure both nights have the problem in the piano mic? With Rainbow, (i believe was Rhys???) who said they had to merge the two nights because one night have problems in some spots.

That's encouraging. But to this point we haven't heard any evidence of the multi-track having the piano mic. We've only heard '39 from it. All the rest of the (mostly documentary) clips are from the mono video feed.

The Real Wizard wrote: Yes, and that particular bit comes from the mono video feed, as evidenced by the same level issue on the bootleg video. It's almost as if they were trying to subtly tell people like us that the first night can't be released for this reason. There really was no need to include it.

The Real Wizard wrote: Yes, and that particular bit comes from the mono video feed, as evidenced by the same level issue on the bootleg video. It's almost as if they were trying to subtly tell people like us that the first night can't be released for this reason. There really was no need to include it.

Biggus Dickus wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: Yes, and that particular bit comes from the mono video feed, as evidenced by the same level issue on the bootleg video. It's almost as if they were trying to subtly tell people like us that the first night can't be released for this reason. There really was no need to include it.

I think they will release it. I wouldn't bother doing remixing just for a couple of clips to be featured in a doc. That's just me though.

rocknrolllover wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: Yes, and that particular bit comes from the mono video feed, as evidenced by the same level issue on the bootleg video. It's almost as if they were trying to subtly tell people like us that the first night can't be released for this reason. There really was no need to include it.

I prefer second night

The Real Wizard wrote:

rocknrolllover wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: Yes, and that particular bit comes from the mono video feed, as evidenced by the same level issue on the bootleg video. It's almost as if they were trying to subtly tell people like us that the first night can't be released for this reason. There really was no need to include it.

I prefer second night

Of course - wouldn't we all ? We've heard the first night.

rocknrolllover wrote:

Biggus Dickus wrote:

The Real Wizard wrote: Yes, and that particular bit comes from the mono video feed, as evidenced by the same level issue on the bootleg video. It's almost as if they were trying to subtly tell people like us that the first night can't be released for this reason. There really was no need to include it.

I think they will release it. I wouldn't bother doing remixing just for a couple of clips to be featured in a doc. That's just me though.

But not this year I assume.

rhapsody8 wrote: There are very much possibilities for releasing. 2017 should be very satisfactory year. But now, waiting Hyde Park for 2016...

Val Lurex wrote: ^ Knebworth seems more realistic. Hasn't it been said many a time now that Hyde Park in full will never see the light of day?

Marknow wrote: QP might be a bit paranoid about the fact that HP was interrupted a couple of times by Fred to calm the crowd, mentioning the local constabulary etc. Coupled with the fact that the distant camera image is total gash I can see why they might skip it. Plus if they cut the naughty bits out we'll all freak out on them. It would be a crime if they skip it though, seminal moment for the band.

Holly2003 wrote:

Marknow wrote: QP might be a bit paranoid about the fact that HP was interrupted a couple of times by Fred to calm the crowd, mentioning the local constabulary etc. Coupled with the fact that the distant camera image is total gash I can see why they might skip it. Plus if they cut the naughty bits out we'll all freak out on them. It would be a crime if they skip it though, seminal moment for the band.

Ever seen the movie Gimme Shelter? A little bit of controversy never hurts a release.

pittrek wrote:

Val Lurex wrote: ^ Knebworth seems more realistic. Hasn't it been said many a time now that Hyde Park in full will never see the light of day?

Really? I never head that before

Val Lurex wrote: ^ Knebworth seems more realistic. Hasn't it been said many a time now that Hyde Park in full will never see the light of day?

Doga wrote:

Val Lurex wrote: ^ Knebworth seems more realistic. Hasn't it been said many a time now that Hyde Park in full will never see the light of day?

Ha ha. Is interesting to see how many steps further has taken Queen Productions (and us, for that matter). Few years ago, Knebworth will be the pinnacle of any release and now is a (bit) letdown compared to Hyde Park. I'm glad 70's Queen are more appreciated. People is starting to understand Freddie once was a man without moustache.

Doga wrote:

Val Lurex wrote: ^ Knebworth seems more realistic. Hasn't it been said many a time now that Hyde Park in full will never see the light of day?

Ha ha. Is interesting to see how many steps further has taken Queen Productions (and us, for that matter). Few years ago, Knebworth will be the pinnacle of any release and now is a (bit) letdown compared to Hyde Park. I'm glad 70's Queen are more appreciated. People is starting to understand Freddie once was a man without moustache.

Val Lurex wrote:

Doga wrote:

Val Lurex wrote: ^ Knebworth seems more realistic. Hasn't it been said many a time now that Hyde Park in full will never see the light of day?

Ha ha. Is interesting to see how many steps further has taken Queen Productions (and us, for that matter). Few years ago, Knebworth will be the pinnacle of any release and now is a (bit) letdown compared to Hyde Park. I'm glad 70's Queen are more appreciated. People is starting to understand Freddie once was a man without moustache.

Not really a letdown. If they released the Knebworth audio, I would still be happy and safe in the knowledge that the final Queen concert has at last been given the proper treatment

cmsdrums wrote: I had One Vision from 'Live Magic' come round on shuffle in the casr yesterday.....whilst the mastering level is quite low (perhaps not a bad thing compared to today's loudness wars), the drum sound is overall the best of the Magic tour official releases (antoher Dave Richard legacy I believe?) - the snare has a real depth and crack to it which Budapest and Wembley just don't have. Even judging by some of the Knebworth bootlegs sounding pretty good, I'm hopeful that if they do work on Knebworth for a release that it could outshine the other Magic tour releases.

Oscar J wrote: ^ The drums sound awesome on the March '74 concert. :) In fact, the audio as a whole on that show is just great IMO, so raw.

Oscar J wrote: I meant it sounds raw, as in not processed to death in Pro Tools.