| Marknow 25.05.2013 08:31 |
This is probably going to come across as very preachy and long winded, and maybe even self important, that's not my intention, I hope the average user (like me) reads this and takes something from it. About Me: In early 2004 while surfing hubs on Direct Connect+ I came across a user who was sharing many Queen concerts in mp3, I sent this guy a message asking him where he got all those Queen concerts, he sent me a message directing me to the Queen Hub, which I quickly joined and started downloading mp3's from. Flash forward to 2005, Queen were going on tour with PR and I had decided I was going to see them in Dublin. I had amassed quite a nice audio and video collection from the Hub by this time, mainly mp3's and VCD quality video, nothing special at all. Then I stumbled upon QZ, I quickly joined up and took part in conversations about the upcoming tour, I also figured out what torrents were and started downloading them. My main point is, I came here with nothing to offer, nothing at all. So, off I went to Dublin, I shot a few videos with a crappy camera and uploaded them on the forum a few days later, I was delighted, I had contributed something of my own. I had done something to contribute to the greater good of the collective. I continued to read the forum, lots of threads about the fabled Houston 1977 video, and rumours about audio of Drammen 1982. I became interested in acquiring these recordings. So what did I do about that? Did I sit on my arse waiting for somebody to upload them? No. I started looking for them online, in every place Imaginable, I went to car boot sales, Record shops and Record Fairs. Guess what? I found them, fair enough it was on ebay, or somewhere else, but at least I was self aware in looking for them. Here is the preachy and self important sounding bit(not my intention) I uploaded the first copy of Houston 1977 on video, I uploaded Drammen 1982 in lossless audio, I uploaded St Paul 1982 on DVD in the best possible quality. Very rare material that some people did not even believe existed. I went to some shows again in 2008, Glasgow and London. I brought in a high def camera and shot both concerts as best I could. I uploaded the audio, DVD's and BluRay from the material I shot. I know in the case of Houston and Drammen that other people had sourced these, and I just got lucky in finding them, but at least I went to the bother of independently finding them. I went to the bother of stuffing a high def camcorder down my pants going into concerts, and freely uploading the resulting material here. Did I do it for hero status or popularity? No, I am not considered a hero nor am I considered to be popular. I did it for YOU, for the greater good of the forum, for people who were interested in collecting live recordings. In all I have uploaded 48 torrents since 2005, lots of reposts from Dime, but also a lot of "new" material, rare material, and stuff I shot myself. I repeat, I CAME HERE WITH NOTHING TO OFFER, but didn't I do quite well considering? It does not matter what the "Fanthology" has, It does not matter what anybody else has that YOU have not. It is up to YOU the average user to contribute material here, It is up to YOU to research in your own time the recordings that YOU want. And, why not upload them here when you find them? For the better of the collective. So that's it, this is my point. When YOU log on to the Announce Forum and there is nothing new or interesting there it is YOUR fault, It is MY fault, It is not the fault of John S Stuart, Pittrek, Sir GH, YourValentine, etc. The forum has become boring because of YOU. It is all down to YOU. It is time for YOU to pick up the baton, It is time for YOU to stop thinking about what others have, and go and scour the earth for what YOU want. YOU must find the next Acetate to upload, YOU must find the next DVD upgrade, YOU must find the 1981 Mexico videos, YOU must find the next new audio concert or upgrade. Queenzone will only function and be interesting if YOU the average member do something productive about it. Stop complaining about what other people have, and do something about it. Stop bitching because others have worked hard to acquire material they do not feel like sharing. I expect to be flamed for this, I hope one or two of you get the message though, I look forward to seeing the fruit of YOUR labour in the Announce Forum, and try like me to not break any promises in the process! Peace and Love. Mark. |
| mooghead 25.05.2013 09:10 |
"I did it for YOU" Awwww shucks xx |
| The Real Wizard 25.05.2013 12:37 |
Bravo for your brilliant post. And had you not shared the videos you filmed in interest of accumulating more, that would be your prerogative and should be completely understood by everyone. What's yours is yours and you're free to do what you like with it. Nobody should have a sense of entitlement and condemn you for your choices. Alas, the universal rule in life is it's easier to point the finger at others instead of taking the initiative yourself to be the change you wish to see in the world. This goes for anything - from major things like social issues to minor things like music collecting. You're a good man, Mark. |
| Thistle 25.05.2013 13:51 |
Exactly. Well put, mark - and thank you for all you have contributed: from someone who has nowt to offer (or is too much of a shitbag to risk the consequences of sharing), I am grateful for what you have given. Cheers! |
| MadTheSwine73 25.05.2013 14:18 |
Thank you Mark. Thank you very much. (No sarcasm intended. I am truly thanking you.) |
| The Valyard 25.05.2013 14:20 |
See what happens when we play nicely. Thank you Mark for renewing my faith in human nature. perhaps there is hope for us afterall. |
| Hangman_96 25.05.2013 14:30 |
Brilliant! Thanks Mark! (no sarcasm either) |
| Wiley 25.05.2013 14:49 |
Great post, man. I identify with it a lot. I also started properly collecting Queen shows in 2005 because of the Q+PR tour. Before that I had several shows in MP3, very few in FLAC. I only did it for about two years or so but in the meantime I traded a few times with other collectors (through regular mail, using CDs/DVDs), dwelved a bit into the Queen hub, torrents and all. It was an interesting experience and I felt like I couldn't call myself a proper Queen "collector" if I didn't do that at least for a while. I never felt entitled to get any rarities nor I resented anybody for not sharing what they had. Like the original poster, I eventually got to contribute in a way: I recorded the Q+PR show in Munich with another collector's gear so he could go up front and enjoy the show... also, to my knowledge, I was the original source for the MP3 of the original (withdrawn) version of "LET ME LIVE" in CD quality, you know, the one with the additional "Take another little piece of my heart now baby" chorus. I said I had it, nobody believed me and then I went ahead and uploaded it. I suspected it was rare but I nevery thought that much about it. Eventually I uploaded the lossless FLAC version as well as I didn't even know what FLAC was when I first uploaded the MP3 version. I got it from my own Made in Heaven CD. I then learned that a few of the first Mexican edition of the album had that rare version. I was lucky. Why would I not upload it? I paid less than $5 bucks for it. This was back in the days when we already had access to decent Internet speed, torrents and all but before most rarities were a YouTube search away. My point with the "Let me live" bit is that I felt good about sharing because I had downloaded so much free stuff before. I felt I was contributing. |
| C_Matt 25.05.2013 14:57 |
Humble and magnificent post. |
| Thistle 25.05.2013 15:01 |
ciber_mato wrote: Humble and magnificent post.Yes! Nicely put :) |
| dowens 25.05.2013 15:02 |
Well lets be honest...it's because collectors like you guys keep us Queen fans engaged. I am collecting concerts and have been for at least 4-5 years now, it's a wonderful hobby. It keeps me entertained and keeps my interest in a band where the lead singer died over 20 years ago. When Queen releases material I do not have, I grab it because I'm a fan. And as a newer collector, I appreciate all of your guys/gals efforts! QPL should too. |
| The Real Wizard 25.05.2013 15:57 |
Exactly - that's an angle most people don't even think of. Indeed, for many people collecting keeps the interest in old bands alive. If it wasn't for collectors unearthing new things now and again, thousands of people would've likely given up on the band since they don't release too many of things of value to those who already have all the albums. There have been some good releases and bonus tracks, no doubt - but the majority of live and studio goodies in the past 15 years have come from underground (the Boston 76 show had people in a frenzy in 2009, more than any Queen release of the last decade). Since these people are still in the loop for that reason, then they may purchase something new that they might not have otherwise known or cared about. |
| inu-liger 25.05.2013 16:29 |
Speaking of investing, I don't think some people are aware here, but I've also been quietly investing in some very rare releases over the past few years (with a huge focus on deleted / never released on CD type of material) partly with the intent of upgrading from incredibly poor quality bootleg copies, to put it like that. I will put up a small example within the hour to give you guys an idea exactly what I've been up to behind the scenes :-) |
| inu-liger 25.05.2013 18:04 |
Example: http://media.ppnstudio.com/inu-productions/RT_IWT_Sample.flac |
| Ozz 25.05.2013 19:05 |
Excellent post! |
| Mr.QueenFan 25.05.2013 19:55 |
Great post indeed! And thanks for everything you've shared over the years. |
| john bodega 25.05.2013 23:05 |
I'd be all for filming something myself, but it seems I can't get any Brian these days without having to sit through Kerry "We're Just Good Friends, Seriously" Ellis as well. Imma stick to leeching. |
| tomchristie22 26.05.2013 01:21 |
I don't know why you expected to be flamed, you've got nothing but positive response here. Great post |
| tomchristie22 26.05.2013 01:21 |
inu-liger wrote: Example: http://media.ppnstudio.com/inu-productions/RT_IWT_Sample.flacDamn that sounds crisp. Thanks for sharing! |
| Vali 26.05.2013 02:07 |
Fantastic post Mark, that's the spirit. And I believe it was really necessary, given the turmoil we're passing through at QZ these days. I've always regret myself not having the opportunity (or the means) to put my hands on any rare material to upload here, so to give back something for so many tons of good stuff I've downloaded. But as you've said, Mark, there are many ways to contribute! Many ages ago I knew I had a very nice VHS recording of the BM Band show in Barcelona, so I decided to transfer it digitally, author an amateur DVD with Nero and give it to QZ as my very first uploading, Because I was taking so much from QZ, I needed to do something in return ! But after that I had nothing else to offer, until one day I thought that those covers I was starting to design just for myself could be interesting for somebody else here. Bingo! very good reception that encouraged me a lot to keep working and improving my skills. And I think I finally didi it ! It's very satisfying for me checking from time to time some Queen-sites and finding out my cover for the Boston '76 gig is there! Without noticing it, one finally finds out that there's always a way to contribute to this community. It's not necessary finding an obscure recording of any unreleased demo to prove yourself and the rest that you can do something. There are always many different ways and it's up to all of us finding the area where we can contribute, even if it is with the smallest bit. |
| Marknow 26.05.2013 07:10 |
Vali wrote: Without noticing it, one finally finds out that there's always a way to contribute to this community. It's not necessary finding an obscure recording of any unreleased demo to prove yourself and the rest that you can do something. There are always many different ways and it's up to all of us finding the area where we can contribute, even if it is with the smallest bit. That is my point exactly Vali, we can all do our bit in every little way, for the betterment of the forum. I am so happy the message seems to be taken at face value. It is up to us, the average member to forward the community. We all started with nothing to offer at some point, even JSS. We all should be motivated to do more rather than having the attitude that there are barriers in the way. There are no barriers, even the Fanthology will welcome someone with open arms once they have something to contribute. If that is the route a person wants to take. We, the average forum member, need to get motivated, small actions by the many will add up to great things. |
| DLCVinnuendo 26.05.2013 07:55 |
fight from the inside, right down the line! |
| Fireplace 26.05.2013 09:50 |
Nice post, although next time you might want to consider adressing the non-phantomologists on this board as "leechers", "moaners" or "scum". These are the names that we identify ourselves by. Just trying to be helpful! |
| A Word In Your Ear 26.05.2013 15:30 |
|
| A Word In Your Ear 26.05.2013 15:44 |
Nice Post Mark, I 100% agree with your post and reasoning. I too, like yourself have brought lots of my recordings to the table, posted them here too & as far as I know, a lot of my recordings are the only source that have surfaced, but as always, there are 2 sides to every coin. As you have said, these days, not much new stuff has/is being uploaded to share (well apart from John Stuart's Leaked acetates from Mr Fuller) But as I have said, there's 2 sides to every coin. For instance, I have a lossless recording of Last night's "SAS Band Gig Featuring Roger Taylor" The whole SAS Band Set, From "All Cannings" But just to post it up on here for all to download, would not do anything in my Favour, Yes I would get the normal "Thank yous" but would by posting it here, gain me anything to further my collection....the simple and sad answer is "No" so unfortunately, I will trade my recording first. In an Ideal world, if everything got shared, great, but unfortunately it's not an ideal world......Shame. |
| ok.computer 26.05.2013 19:33 |
Ok, in fairness to your original post, you're dead on. However, you really must admit, that much of the boards have fallen into farce. I used to post here in (I think) my early thirties...I'm now just over the age of 40. While the quality of some the threads was always questionable, it really has got to the point where it has become...well...silly... The staying power and contributions which are made and sustain any internet site rely on Joe Public. And unfortunately, my once-regular visits to this site have become very fragmented because the boards have just become...well...crap... But you're right in essence. It's down to us. I do think though, that a slightly heavier editorial presence would go a long way to turning things around. |
| dowens 26.05.2013 21:36 |
Ok, so in all of this debacle of the Fanthology (at this point, I just quickly skim through the bickering), did I read somewhere that the Fanthology was possibly going to release "their" box sets on here? Or at least discussion? Is that correct? |
| Marknow 27.05.2013 10:02 |
A Word In Your Ear wrote: Nice Post Mark, I 100% agree with your post and reasoning. I too, like yourself have brought lots of my recordings to the table, posted them here too & as far as I know, a lot of my recordings are the only source that have surfaced, but as always, there are 2 sides to every coin. As you have said, these days, not much new stuff has/is being uploaded to share (well apart from John Stuart's Leaked acetates from Mr Fuller) But as I have said, there's 2 sides to every coin. For instance, I have a lossless recording of Last night's "SAS Band Gig Featuring Roger Taylor" The whole SAS Band Set, From "All Cannings" But just to post it up on here for all to download, would not do anything in my Favour, Yes I would get the normal "Thank yous" but would by posting it here, gain me anything to further my collection....the simple and sad answer is "No" so unfortunately, I will trade my recording first. In an Ideal world, if everything got shared, great, but unfortunately it's not an ideal world......Shame. I understand your point of view given the current climate. Any big news from the show BTW? Hope you enjoyed it. |
| Marknow 27.05.2013 10:04 |
ok.computer wrote: However, you really must admit, that much of the boards have fallen into farce. I used to post here in (I think) my early thirties...I'm now just over the age of 40. While the quality of some the threads was always questionable, it really has got to the point where it has become...well...silly... The staying power and contributions which are made and sustain any internet site rely on Joe Public. And unfortunately, my once-regular visits to this site have become very fragmented because the boards have just become...well...crap... I agree with you 100%. I'm 36 now and I just get the feeling I'm too old for this place. It's like being at an under 18's disco.... |
| inu-liger 27.05.2013 10:46 |
dowens wrote: Ok, so in all of this debacle of the Fanthology (at this point, I just quickly skim through the bickering), did I read somewhere that the Fanthology was possibly going to release "their" box sets on here? Is that correct?100% correct, despite what a certain trio wants you to believe otherwise. Whether that will happen now, or at least anytime soon is anyone's guess thanks to a certain leaker. |
| Thistle 27.05.2013 12:11 |
^ I've got some faith in this, Inu. Just a shame that the leak, coupled with the Infighting, potentially jeopardises the project. I just feel so bad that I don't - for all my searching and trying - have anything to return to the group. That taints my excitement at the possibility of having the chance to get what they're willing to share. Honestly. Although I 100% agree with the sentiment of the OP, I have been trying, and can't get past my original haul. Any other wee things I had, but hoped to use as a brokering tool, have now found their way onto QZ. So now I feel I can't contribute :( |
| mooghead 27.05.2013 12:43 |
To play devils advocate, if you have something that no one else, or very few people have, and you can use it to bargain and barter with then why the hell shouldn't you? Its all very well talking about the right 'spirit' and all that but that's just because people who say that want something they don't have and want it to be given to them. Would the people sitting at their computers waiting to be given all this stuff be so willing to give it away themselves if they had it and had gone out of their way somehow to obtain it? They will say yes but they will be lying. Devils advocate. |
| Thistle 27.05.2013 13:19 |
mooghead wrote: To play devils advocate, if you have something that no one else, or very few people have, and you can use it to bargain and barter with then why the hell shouldn't you? Its all very well talking about the right 'spirit' and all that but that's just because people who say that want something they don't have and want it to be given to them. Would the people sitting at their computers waiting to be given all this stuff be so willing to give it away themselves if they had it and had gone out of their way somehow to obtain it? They will say yes but they will be lying. Devils advocate.That's what I was getting at in another thread that ended up being a Fanthology rant :) |
| The Real Wizard 27.05.2013 14:17 |
ok.computer wrote: But you're right in essence. It's down to us. I do think though, that a slightly heavier editorial presence would go a long way to turning things around.Since such a thing will likely never happen, maybe this place needs to die a natural death and someone should start a new forum in its place.. |
| Thistle 27.05.2013 14:24 |
The Real Wizard wrote: maybe this place needs to die a natural death and someone should start a new forum in its place..That would be a shame. I don't think it would stop the bad apples from jumping over, either :( |
| tero! 48531 27.05.2013 14:53 |
inu-liger wrote:If only you hadn't brought up questions such as the "legal rights of the owner" and "future profits for the QP anthology releases" in relation to the actions of David Fuller, your case would be FAR more convincing. I would probably give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that "the fanthology" were going to release the material at some point.dowens wrote: Ok, so in all of this debacle of the Fanthology (at this point, I just quickly skim through the bickering), did I read somewhere that the Fanthology was possibly going to release "their" box sets on here? Is that correct?100% correct, despite what a certain trio wants you to believe otherwise. Whether that will happen now, or at least anytime soon is anyone's guess thanks to a certain leaker. But you've ruined that with your hypocrisy and double standards. "Your trio" has done at least as much damage to the public reputation of the traders as David Fuller has, but you don't want to take any responsibility for it. |
| mooghead 27.05.2013 15:15 |
The Real Wizard wrote:It just needs some sort of moderation, get rid of wankers like Medusa for good and make sure people stay on topic, perhaps even interact with the board!!!!ok.computer wrote: But you're right in essence. It's down to us. I do think though, that a slightly heavier editorial presence would go a long way to turning things around.maybe this place needs to die a natural death and someone should start a new forum in its place.. |
| Saint Jiub 27.05.2013 15:42 |
inu-liger wrote:"or at least anytime soon is anyone's guess thanks to a certain leaker" ... and if dissenters and leechers behave and toe the line.dowens wrote: Ok, so in all of this debacle of the Fanthology (at this point, I just quickly skim through the bickering), did I read somewhere that the Fanthology was possibly going to release "their" box sets on here? Is that correct?100% correct, despite what a certain trio wants you to believe otherwise. Whether that will happen now, or at least anytime soon is anyone's guess thanks to a certain leaker. So Fanthology and elite collectors can do nothing but stifle dissent and bitch about leechers because they are still sore at the leaker. Thanks Inu for inviting me back into this conversation . |
| The Valyard 27.05.2013 16:09 |
Panchgani wrote:this is the 1st negative post in here all weekend why start now.inu-liger wrote:"or at least anytime soon is anyone's guess thanks to a certain leaker" ... and if dissenters and leechers behave and toe the line. So Fanthology and elite collectors can do nothing but stifle dissent and bitch about leechers because they are still sore at the leaker. Thanks Inu for inviting me back into this conversation .dowens wrote: Ok, so in all of this debacle of the Fanthology (at this point, I just quickly skim through the bickering), did I read somewhere that the Fanthology was possibly going to release "their" box sets on here? Is that correct?100% correct, despite what a certain trio wants you to believe otherwise. Whether that will happen now, or at least anytime soon is anyone's guess thanks to a certain leaker. if fanthology are genuine and do release stuff to all that is good. if they do not that is their choice and not yours. that has nothing to do with you. your bullying is a handforcing argument. why are you so bitter. you are the one who is dragging queenzone back into the mud after everone else dug you out. can you not see it is you who are stifling dissent and nowbody else. |
| brENsKi 27.05.2013 16:18 |
inu-liger wrote: 100% correct, despite what a certain trio wants you to believe otherwise. .yes. the Father, Son and "Holly" Ghost N.B. above comment in the interests of balance to counter the comment made by Panchgani. |
| A Word In Your Ear 28.05.2013 23:26 |
Marknow wrote:A Word In Your Ear wrote: Nice Post Mark, I 100% agree with your post and reasoning. I too, like yourself have brought lots of my recordings to the table, posted them here too & as far as I know, a lot of my recordings are the only source that have surfaced, but as always, there are 2 sides to every coin. As you have said, these days, not much new stuff has/is being uploaded to share (well apart from John Stuart's Leaked acetates from Mr Fuller) But as I have said, there's 2 sides to every coin. For instance, I have a lossless recording of Last night's "SAS Band Gig Featuring Roger Taylor" The whole SAS Band Set, From "All Cannings" But just to post it up on here for all to download, would not do anything in my Favour, Yes I would get the normal "Thank yous" but would by posting it here, gain me anything to further my collection....the simple and sad answer is "No" so unfortunately, I will trade my recording first. In an Ideal world, if everything got shared, great, but unfortunately it's not an ideal world......Shame.I understand your point of view given the current climate. Any big news from the show BTW? Hope you enjoyed it. Yes it was a great show, Roger was singing & Playing Drums extremely well. The whole SAS Band Set was great, but I will only list the Queen Related Tracks of the night. First song up was 2 opera type guys that sang "Barcelona" (I did recognize their faces, but could not put a name to them) Later Jamie Moses played his usual 29 riff overture that incorporated snippets of "Bohemian Rhapsody" "We Are The Champions" & "Seven Seas Of Rhye" (+ he played the riff to "All Right Now") Next up was Roger who sang "A Kind Of Magic" Roger Then Introduces Marc Martel (Queen Extravaganza) Roger Leaves the stage & Marc goes on to sing "Don't Stop me now" & " The Show Must Go On" Roger Returns to the Stage & sings duet with Marc on "Under Pressure" Roger Then introduces Jeff Beck & goes on to perform a fantastic version of "Say It's Not True" Rogers forgot some of the words, He He!!! Next Track, Roger sang the Hendrix song "Little Wing" (A first, never heard him sing that before) Roger then goes behind the Kit & Drums on "Peter Gunn" (Roger was Drumming Fantastic!!!!! Made my night) Roger Then Drummed again on the Track "New Orleans" Roger Left the stage for the last true song of the night, but returned on stage for the "Bows" ect at the end. Then the whole band, Including Roger Sang "All The Way" A Capella style. |
| A Word In Your Ear 28.05.2013 23:28 |
Another Photo, Roger going at it "Hell for Leather" |
| A Word In Your Ear 28.05.2013 23:31 |
Roger & Jeff |
| oliverd05 02.06.2013 05:03 |
you know what guys, its funny, i never thought that recent stuff would be appreciated on here, stuff like the Born Free Tour With Brian, plainly because its not considered RARE! i guess the fault (sorry to be pedantic) lies at the amount of fanthology related threads, i took it too mean that really the fanthology stuff was the only stuff, apart from old concerts that was considered "good" for here obviously the new Born Free tour starts on the 17th!, apart from one person i already know about who would be interested in a trade once i have my show recorded.. gateshead if anyone's interested! Cheers Guys & Keep on Rockin! |
| Fireplace 02.06.2013 17:28 |
I DO appreciate the new stuff, but for a different reason I'm afraid. Both Brian and Roger at now at a stage in their lives where I get anxious to hear if they've still "got it". Judging from the Glambert-tour I'd say Brian is still on top of his game as a guitarist and getting weaker and weaker as a vocalist. Roger has his moments both as a drummer and a singer, but is becoming less consistent. These new recordings are almost chronicling the very normal and natural decline of two very fine musicians, however much I dislike looking at it that way. These days it's more of a relief to hear them pull off songs without any major glitches, instead of pure joy. They are fully entitled to screw up as royally as they want, but that still doesn't mean I like to hear it. I hope they have one major tour left in them with a decent singer to prove me wrong. |
| MartynTS 02.06.2013 18:13 |
To google I go! Seriously though, great post. Very inspiring, and I'm not one to be inspired. I hope one day I can give something to this community. I feel like a lot of people aren't so outgoing with this because of how really organized and dedicated a lot fo fans are, and to people more new to this it seems practically impossible to do anything worthwhile. I'm not trying to say it's bad that so many people are dedicated, we have so much available so easily, I'm not complaing! It just can seem a bit, what's the word I'm looking for... unreachable. That's not the word, but it will do. You see things like the Houston video, or hear the Boston '76 tape, and they're amazing. Or see queenlive.ca/queenconcerts.com/other amazing sites that have huge amounts of information, and it seems like there isn't much to do. Like the whatever mexican videos, to someone who just downloads the mindset is to just wait until someone with the money/connections gets it and uploads it. It can be hard to find some inititive to take. This is a great post. Just stating that there are things that anyone can do, no matter if they're in the fanthology or just some fan who downloads boots. Okay, enough of my rambling, I probably didn't get any point across, oh well. Thanks for all you've done, and for doing it without getting the thanks you should get. and thank you for putting inititive into the community! |
| oliverd05 03.06.2013 07:53 |
MartynTS i happen to agree with you tbh, there does get a feeling especially for a newbie, that there really isnt anything that CAN be done, because everything maybe out of reach! |