brians wig 31.08.2012 10:39 |
La Japonaise at 4.18. Some of the end vocal creeps briefly in and sticks out BADLY like a sore thumb. Was this intentional or a major cock up? Either way it's extremely jarring. As for the rest of the album, well it's quite delicate on the whole and by that I mean that in quite a few parts where the listener is expecting "OOMPH", there's sadly a whimper instead. The Fallen Priest, however, is superb and I'm glad about that as it's always been my favorite track. I've approached this with an open mind (Wouldn't have bought it otherwise) and so desperately wanted to give it praise but I'm sorry, I can't as it fails in a number of places for me: by that what I mean is it jars me when it shouldn't. I suspect I'll ultimately end up sticking with the original, but I've only listened the once andit may grow on me yet. Now. Can you please cater for the fans and remaster the original like you did for the Queen albums and make it shine ? |
pittrek 31.08.2012 10:56 |
How can somebody have it already ? Amazon is not fair :-( |
rocknrolllover 31.08.2012 11:36 |
Probably he many times listened to Barcelona sampler, you know :-) |
bokkepoot 31.08.2012 13:21 |
The deluxe 4-disc edition has arrived today and I have to say that I like it very much. But... The quality of the DVD is not exactly what I was expecting. My hope was that the little documentary which was also on the youtube channel would be on the DVD in a longer format. On the other hand the orchestra has done a good job and is a good replacement for the synthesizers ! I'm not really an audio expert, and hope read here some more critics (good or bad) about this release. |
eYe 31.08.2012 13:26 |
Got my copy today (jpc.de) - and like it a lot! Sounds great on a decent hifi system. And it has dynamics. Sometimes it seems strange, but I guess that's because my ears got used to the original sound. I'll listen again... |
rocknrolllover 31.08.2012 13:55 |
someone share your copies on other resource please |
Hangman_96 31.08.2012 14:16 |
We'll get it from Rutracker. Stay tuned since September 3rd. |
YourValentine 31.08.2012 16:47 |
I got my copy from Amazon today and spent the whole evening listening. I think that the orchestra versions of most songs are done quite well. The sound is clear and deep and the orchestra music is true to the orignal arrangements. Unfortunately the voices are drowned in some places which ruins some delicate parts, most notably in "La Japonaise" and "The Fallen Priest". For some reason "Ensueno" was not given the orchestra treatment but is still mainly a piano -voices song like the original. Instead they added "Exercises in Free Love" which was not on the original album being the same song. Now we have Ensueno with piano and "Exercise" with a mighty orchestra which makes it a very odd song interchanging Freddie's "yahoo, yahoo" with Swansea-like orchestra which does not fit at all in my opinion. Why they did not "re-orchestra" "Ensueno" is everybody's guess but the album simply does not need the same song twice. Which brings us to the bonus track: "How Can I Go On" with David Garrett. Now David Garrett is definitely an undisputed great violinist but sadly he is also one of these modern sell-out artists who play anything and anywhere if only their faces are on TV. On "How Can I Go On" he plays a violin solo and additional violin which sound like a Vienna coffehouse violinist from the turn of the century. I do not know whose idea it was but the person who came up with the idea cannot possibly ever have listened properly to the song which is full of sadness, loneliness and dispair. In fact it would have been enough to have listened to the other version of the song on the same album to realise that this kind of violin simply contradicts the whole mood of the song. Lost are the delicate vocals by Freddie and Montserrat. Luckily the so-called bonus is the last song and can very easily be skipped. Imo the album would be much better if the bonus and "Exercises" had been left out or at least relegated to a bonus CD. There was no need to destroy the original dramatic flow of the songs. Disc 2 has the rarities and demos. It is very cool that finally "Exercises" with Montserrat's vocals - b-side to the Barcelona single - has been released. It was missing on the Freddie box for no reason (other than it was probably forgotten), so I am very happy it was included this time. The other demos have all been already released on the rarities 2 disc of the Freddie box but many newer fans do not own the box and the selection is quite good. They give a good first impression of the fantastic work Freddie could do in a studio. The best part of Disc 3 - the DVD - is the Ku Club version of Barcelona although they did not have a real good copy. It is always better to have a bad copy than none imo. Disc 4 is the orchestral version of the original album with no bonus and I have not yet listened. I have to admit that I am not much interested in a Freddie-less Freddie album but I will check if "Ensueno" is the same arrangement as "Exercise" on disc 1. Surely I am not complaining about an additional CD only because I do not care about it. Until today I never listened to the "instrumental mixes" of the Freddie box, either :-) Another thing I have to criticize is the chaos in the liner notes, mainly the credits and lists of studios which are apparently all lumped together for the original album and the new release. Actually, I was very sceptical about the whole project, it always makes me suspicious when someone claims that they act on behalf of Freddie's artistic legacy and not for profit. Certainly Freddie would have used an orchestra if he had wanted to but he must have had good reasons to record the album the way he did it. However, these new songs are definitely worth to listen to, much is done very well and there is always reason for criticism, mainly from old fans with very long standing listening habits. |
AlexRocks 31.08.2012 22:29 |
What do you mean by a "Freddie-less" Freddie album? Or am I confused by what the contents are...I can't recall at the moment sorry. Also the reason the original studio l.p. was probably recorded with keyboards was that it did not make as much sense financially to record with a real orchestra at the time. I can't imagine that this release at the time did all that great in sales...though I certainly could be wrong. I love it all though so don't get wrong in any way! |
cmi 31.08.2012 22:51 |
2AlexRocks: There's no Freddie's voice on the intrumental version of the album from CD4, so it doesn't have any connection with him at all. |
YourValentine 01.09.2012 02:52 |
AlexRocks - we do not know why Freddie did not use an orchestra but money was likely not the reason. Remember the recording of ANATO which was apparently very expensive at a time when the band was actually broke and had just bought out of the Trident contract with a very unsure future ahead. Somehow I do not believe that the 1987 Freddie was afraid that the investment would not pay. After all, he was about to risk the reputation he had worked so hard for, so I do not believe that money was such an issue but we will never know that. I cannot imagine the Pablo Picasso estate commissioning a painter to repaint Picasso's work because colours and canvasses are so much better these days and Picasso could not afford such good material. There is always fine line when you mess with the art of a dead person and claiming he could not do what he ultimately wanted to do is a gross disrespect imo. I would feel better if the box contained the original album or a remaster of the original album to give a new audience a chance to compare the original as Freddie released it and the orchestra version which is certainly a good album but it would not exist if not for the genius and boldness of the creator of this music. I am not against this project per se, I am certainly against the way it is sold to the public. |
cmsdrums 01.09.2012 04:06 |
Very good point about the 'Freddie-less' instrumental album - on a previous thread I compared it to one of those 'royal philharmonic plays the music of...' albums. Basically it's a bit pointless. Do the sleeve notes say if Mike Moran's original piano parts have been retained on the new version, or have they re-recorded those for no reason at all? |
Ozz 01.09.2012 06:24 |
@YourValentine . After reading Peter Freestone book it gave me the feeling that maybe Freddie was in a rush making "Barcelona" because he wanted to see it done , "capturing her voice", and let's remember that he was ill at the time, and if the album take long time to record maybe he wouldn't see it finished. |
Sebastian 01.09.2012 06:28 |
YourValentine wrote:I cannot imagine the Pablo Picasso estate commissioning a painter to repaint Picasso's work because colours and canvasses are so much better these days and Picasso could not afford such good material.Plus, for the analogy to be complete, the new paintings should be marketed as 'the way Picasso wanted them' or 'the way they should have been.' YourValentine wrote:I am not against this project per se, I am certainly against the way it is sold to the public.That's exactly my opinion on the matter; and on 'Made in Heaven' as well. |
Pim Derks 01.09.2012 07:00 |
Let's wait for the new Queen-album, "Mr. Bad Guy" to be released. Freddie would've wanted it that way. |
pittrek 01.09.2012 07:06 |
Pim Derks wrote: Let's wait for the new Queen-album, "Mr. Bad Guy" to be released. Freddie would've wanted it that way. Actually Brian's guitar and Roger's drumming would help the songs from the album :-) |
YourValentine 01.09.2012 07:17 |
cmsdrums wrote: Very good point about the 'Freddie-less' instrumental album - on a previous thread I compared it to one of those 'royal philharmonic plays the music of...' albums. Basically it's a bit pointless. Do the sleeve notes say if Mike Moran's original piano parts have been retained on the new version, or have they re-recorded those for no reason at all? Mike Moran's contribution - it is not clear from the liner notes which recordings are new and which are not new. Apparently all old non-vocal tracks were removed and replaced except for John Deacon's bass on How Can I Go On - or not? Look for yourself: Original Barcelona liner notes: All keyboards: Mike Moran Bass guitar on 'How Can I Go On' by John Deacon Assisted on 'Barcelona' by: Homi Kanga, Violin; Laurie Lewis, Violin; Deborah Ann Johnston, Cello; Barry Castle, Horn; Frank Ricoffi, Percussion. Assisted on 'The Golden Boy' by: Backing vocals: Madeline Bell, Debbie Bishop, Lance Ellington, Mirian Stockley, Peter Straker, Mark Williamson, Carol Woods New liner notes: All Piano and Hammond Organ by Mike Moran. except Piano on 'How Can I Go On' by Stuart Morley. Bass guitar on 'How Can I Go On' by John Deacon. Drums on 'The Golden Boy' and 'How Can I Go On' by Rufus Taylor. Koto by Naoko Kikuchi All backing vocals by Freddie Mercury except assisted on 'The Golden Boy' by Madeline Bell, Debbie Bishop, Lance Ellington, Miriam Stockley, Peter Straker, Mark Williamson, Carol Woods. |
brians wig 01.09.2012 07:20 |
I expect Mr Bad guy will be released by Island records next (they'll want to capitalise on re-releases as expected), but in what form? Whilst I'll be over the moon for a deluxe set with remastered album, I'll also be mighty pissed at the fact they'd remastered that but not Barcelona... |
YourValentine 01.09.2012 07:32 |
@ Ozz - the Barcelona album was recorded over approx 18 months, so time was perhaps not an issue. There can be many reasons why Freddie chose not to use a full orchestra. He may have wanted the full control at any time, he may have not been able to write the proper sheet music for an orchestra, he may not have wanted so many musicians involved - we do not know. The only thing that truly annoys me is that we are told that Freddie made a second rate album because he did not have the means to do it better. This means that it took Jim Beach and the musical director of the WWRY musical(!) to "lift what was already an outstanding record into a whole new stratosphere" (quoted Rhys Thomas from the Barcelona 2012 booklet). No disrespect to Mr. Morley but he is only a paid session musician standing on the shoulder of a giant. |
Sebastian 01.09.2012 08:48 |
I think the reasons why Freddie chose not to use and orchestra have been commented by both Mike Moran and David Richards a number of times. |
people on streets 01.09.2012 10:40 |
pittrek wrote: How can somebody have it already ? Amazon is not fair :-(promos were sold on ebay over a week ago... |
brENsKi 01.09.2012 11:09 |
brians wig wrote: I expect Mr Bad guy will be released by Island records next (they'll want to capitalise on re-releases as expected), but in what form? ..wasn't Mr bad Guy on CBS? which makes it part of SONY not Island...unless the rights for it moved? |
TRS-Romania 01.09.2012 12:06 |
If my memory serves me well: Freddie signed on with CBS for a multi-album deal, but bought himself out of it just before Barcelona was released. |
Mr.QueenFan 01.09.2012 12:55 |
edit |
pma 01.09.2012 13:33 |
The album is already on Spotify (using Spotify Open in Finland). Sure, some parts do come across a bit dodgy in terms of the overall mix, but I think this re-release will introduce the album to people who may have never heard it. A simple remaster of the original recording would not have had the same marketing value. The songs are still great, the new orchestration does not really add that much, but it cannot take anything away from the original compositions. |
JacquesDaniels 02.09.2012 02:31 |
All the vocals on this new Barcelona are a lot drier than in the original version (for example, La Japonaise has no noticable reverb on any of the vocals), and sometimes the orchestra really does drown out the vocals. It's too bad, because the orchestra sounds wonderful in most places, and it really could've made the album a whole lot better. At least we have a cappella versions of La Japonaise and The Golden Boy in the Freddie box from 2000 so we can make our own remixes of them with the new orchestrations from the instrumental versions...
pittrek wrote:Well, concerning Mr. Bad Guy... in the original album sleeve notes, Freddie has dedicated his first special thanks to Brian, Roger and John "for not interfering." But of course you already knew that, and we know what has happened since. :-PPim Derks wrote: Let's wait for the new Queen-album, "Mr. Bad Guy" to be released. Freddie would've wanted it that way.Actually Brian's guitar and Roger's drumming would help the songs from the album :-) What I sometimes like to do, is compile a playlist of an "enhanced" Mr. Bad Guy from the tracks on Made In Heaven and The Great Pretender, though what's still left unmodernized are "Man Made Paradise", "There Must Be More To Life Than This" and "Love Me Like There's No Tomorrow". With the Michael Jackson duets and a couple of workable demos, Brian and Roger might have another MIH on their hands... But I'm kinda hoping not. |
popy 02.09.2012 18:15 |
Does anyone have the 3 CD + DVD? A question: is the DVD the "The Great Pretender" documentary or not? The press release says: "‘Barcelona- The Special Edition’ album release is accompanied by a brand new TV/DVD documentary ‘The Great Pretender’ (Eagle Rock) focusing on Freddie’s solo career and life outside Queen produced and directed by Rhys Thomas. The documentary features never-before-seen footage of Freddie, including hilarious and emotional interviews re-discovered in the Queen archives for the first time recently. ‘The Great Pretender’ is released on DVD & Blu-ray on September 24. Pre-order here on Amazon.co.uk." But then the press release has this track list: 1.Ku Club Ibiza Performance – Barcelona 2. La Nit Barcelona Performance - Barcelona (5m46s) - How Can I Go On (3m58s) - The Golden Boy (5m58s) 3. Barcelona – Classic Video 4m25s 4. Barcelona – The Special Edition EPK 5. Barcelona – 2012 edit by Rhys Thomas 4m49s Can anyone confirm the DVD content? |
Pim Derks 02.09.2012 22:49 |
The Great Pretender is a separate DVD/Bluray which will be released at the end of this month. The DVD in the Barcelona box has the tracklist as per the press-release. |
dowens 03.09.2012 19:05 |
I just can't understand why people seem to get so upset at the Queen versions of Freddie's solo stuff on MIH. You never know, Freddie could have given them free range on whatever before he died. He was adamant about getting the last recorded material out there and knew there wasn't enough for a complete album. It would be great to get an in-depth interview about the process of making MIH. I'd rather here more Queen versions of Freddie's songs rather that the "flavor of the month" artist performing with Brian and Roger. I'm looking forward to this new version of Barcelona. |
dowens 03.09.2012 19:05 |
I just can't understand why people seem to get so upset at the Queen versions of Freddie's solo stuff on MIH. You never know, Freddie could have given them free range on whatever before he died. He was adamant about getting the last recorded material out there and knew there wasn't enough for a complete album. It would be great to get an in-depth interview about the process of making MIH. I'd rather here more Queen versions of Freddie's songs rather that the "flavor of the month" artist performing with Brian and Roger. I'm looking forward to this new version of Barcelona. |
ITSM 04.09.2012 06:06 |
It's on Spotify. But I think I will buy this - I'm weak for these things... |
scovel001 04.09.2012 10:31 |
I've just listened to this on Spotify, all I can say is 'wow' this album sounds exceptional. Even on my lowly Macbook Pro. I never had the original, however, my friend did & I remember thinking how dated the synths made things sound. This one is a belter, very impressed indeed. |
Sheer Brass Neck 04.09.2012 17:22 |
dowens wrote: I just can't understand why people seem to get so upset at the Queen versions of Freddie's solo stuff on MIH. You never know, Freddie could have given them free range on whatever before he died. Why people are upset with Freddie's stuff on MIH? It was emotionally manipulative and dishonest. Two pretty good reasons. |
Sebastian 04.09.2012 18:10 |
dowens wrote:I just can't understand why people seem to get so upset at the Queen versions of Freddie's solo stuff on MIH.A lot of people do, a lot of people don't. I personally don't mind either way. dowens wrote:You never know, Freddie could have given them free range on whatever before he died.Schrödinger's will. dowens wrote:It would be great to get an in-depth interview about the process of making MIH.Fifteen years ago, yes. Nowadays, however, it would be so revisionist, with Brian and Roger portraying themselves as saviours and saints fulfilling a dying man's last wish while saying John was barely more than a session musician who played two notes and got one third (or fourth) of the performing royalties for it... that *if* they bother mentioning him at all. dowens wrote:I'd rather here more Queen versions of Freddie's songs rather that the "flavor of the month" artist performing with Brian and Roger.IMO, that's like a manager of a football team telling the press 'I'd rather we lose 0-5 than 0-5.' Well, of course... but it's still a loss IMO. |
dowens 04.09.2012 20:56 |
Emotionally manipulative and dishonest?! You seem to get too emotional about this. Did you personally know Freddie?! I think Brian and Roger did. Sorry, I don't get the "lose 0-5 than be 0-5". There simply is nothing wrong with Queen making versions of Freddie's songs, there is nothing dishonest about it. They are superior versions to the originals, IMO. |
YAFF 04.09.2012 21:41 |
scovel001 wrote: I've just listened to this on Spotify, all I can say is 'wow' this album sounds exceptional. Even on my lowly Macbook Pro. I never had the original, however, my friend did & I remember thinking how dated the synths made things sound. This one is a belter, very impressed indeed.Have to disagree. The original is better. New orchestra lacks punch in many key places and drowns the vocals at times. Rufus Taylor's drum parts are crap. This has got to be one of the few instances in history where synthesizers trump an 80 piece orchestra!!!! |
Sheer Brass Neck 04.09.2012 22:17 |
dowens wrote: Emotionally manipulative and dishonest?! You seem to get too emotional about this. Did you personally know Freddie?! I think Brian and Roger did. Sorry, I don't get the "lose 0-5 than be 0-5". There simply is nothing wrong with Queen making versions of Freddie's songs, there is nothing dishonest about it. They are superior versions to the originals, IMO. To point 1, not emotional at all. They changed the tone of the song MIH from uplifting to plodding, adding a minor key ending, when Freddie's version could have been about a night at the club Heaven where he used to hang out. Now it's about "heaven", where Freddie may or may not be? Shockingly dishonest. Same with Let me Live. No where did they state that was a song from 10 or so years prior to Freddie's death. However, it appears on the "final" Queen album like it's a plea from Freddie to let me live. Weak shit there. My knowing Freddie is as important to this discussion as knowing you, To point 3, superior in your opinion. Inferior for the stated reasons in my opinion. |
dowens 04.09.2012 23:35 |
You know, I always thought MIH seemed prophetic in a way, was surprised to realize it was written so early. Just be because you end something in minor doesn't make you dishonest. Let Me Live is quite fitting on the album, and I'm glad the demo was finished and has seen the light of day. I guess what you call weak, I call creative. It's clear you dislike the final album, so we can just agree to disagree. But manipulative and dishonest? Can't see that. |
john bodega 05.09.2012 00:36 |
"They changed the tone of the song MIH from uplifting to plodding" *shrug* I've never found the original version to be terribly uplifting at all. Sounds like a weak-ass demo. To me, the only real hatchet job of his Mr. Bad Guy era stuff would be I Was Born To Love You. The Queen version was just a little too far in the direction of 'car commercial'. I like the track, but it feels like one of the more constructed pieces of the album - even measured against You Don't Fool Me, which really was 'constructed'. A little too much manipulation of Freddie's performance, a few too many samples - and the fadeout ending always sounded a bit lazy to me. I really believe that Made in Heaven, on the other hand, was a great job. There's nothing plodding about the guitar solo. Reminds me a little of Free As A Bird - although a lot of people had problems with that too, so it might not be the best example. Ha. One might not feel like it was a good idea to make the song seem lugubrious or whatever, but I think the vocal meshes with the new backing a lot better than it did with Born To Love You. As for this new Barcelona thing - I dunno. It's a very worthwhile idea, but the new backings are dodgy. The title track (the last I heard, anyway) was severely lacking in percussion. Some of the big moments of the song lack any impact. |
rhyeking 05.09.2012 01:39 |
I won't bore you all with a song by song analysis. It sounds great overall to me. Is it perfect? No, but neither was the original. Both are pretty damn good. You *will* hear the differences. You may not like them, especially if you're used to and love the original. Or you might think they improve upon the what was recorded in '87/'88. Even if it's not Freddie performing the music himself, he did co-write it. I think calling the instrumental disc "Freddie-less" can be somewhat obtuse. If I understand the intent correctly, this project was intended to expand the vision of the album, to complete the idea of the classical model it was partly built on. I would argue that in this case, unlike symphonic cover albums of Queen songs, the instrumental disc is more in line with a modern transcription like of Mozart (and no, I'm not comparing Freddie to Mozart, I'm comparing classical music practices, which do relate to the Barcelona album, since it started as an operatic project of sorts). When I listen to a piano transcription of Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, which Mozart did not pen himself, I still hear the music Mozart created. The same goes for these instrumentals tracks. I would suggest that you're missing out if you choose to dismiss the instrumental disc. It's a new and different way to hear Freddie's music and you may find much beauty in it. And that goes for the entire Special Edition. It's something different, another way to experience the album. It doesn't negate the original and you don't have to pick one over the other. |
YourValentine 05.09.2012 03:44 |
As I said before I am not actually complaining about an additional CD only because I am not too keen about it:-) For me Freddie on a CD is mainly Freddie singing. It is true that he wrote the music but he did not write it for orchestras to play the music, he wrote it for himself and MC to perform it. It is the same when I say that I appreciate Fredie's piano skills but if he had performed a Queen concert only playing piano and not singing it would not have been a great Queen concert for me. But I will take your advice and listen to the orchestra CD - with an open mind :-) As to picking one album over the other: sooner or later you find that you just play one of them. Therefore it would have been much better imo if the box contained the original album, maybe even a remaster. Just out of respect for the original album, you know :-) |
rhyeking 05.09.2012 05:18 |
It's impossible to please everyone, but I guarantee that if they'd included the original 1988 Barcelona album, some fans would complain of having to pay more for a 5 disc set that has a disc they already own, remastered or not. If it were remastered, some would complain that the remaster didn't sound as good as the original. Issuing the set without the original version of the album at least does away with some of the accusations and increased complaining. Disc 2 is mostly demos from the boxed set, but at least Montserrat's version of "Exercises In Free Love" is on there (a glaring omission from the boxed set, especially given Freddie's was on there twice). I view Barcelona as a bridge between popular rock and classical opera, an attempt to marry the two forms. Orchestrating it is a logic attempt to explore the operatic side more closely, to increase its presence on the project. Whether the listener thinks they succeed is up to the individual. Regardless, the music is still Freddie's (as co-writer), it's still him communicating ideas and emotions, but with greater emphasis placed on the classical form, rather than the symphonic rock form, and the act of transcribing has a long, respected tradition in classical music. Sorry to sort of repeat myself, I just wanted to clarify my earlier thoughts. I really like the instrumental disc on the FM boxed set, and the instrumentals Queen and the solo works have issued. It's a different way to hear the tracks and, for me, increases my appreciation for the songs' craftsmanship. Honestly, I'd love to hear all the albums without the vocals, just to listen to the musicianship and composing involved. I still like and listen to the originals, too. |
TheVisibleMan 05.09.2012 13:07 |
double post |
TheVisibleMan 05.09.2012 13:08 |
rhyeking wrote: I won't bore you all with a song by song analysis. It sounds great overall to me. Is it perfect? No, but neither was the original. Both are pretty damn good. You *will* hear the differences. You may not like them, especially if you're used to and love the original. Or you might think they improve upon the what was recorded in '87/'88. Even if it's not Freddie performing the music himself, he did co-write it. I think calling the instrumental disc "Freddie-less" can be somewhat obtuse. If I understand the intent correctly, this project was intended to expand the vision of the album, to complete the idea of the classical model it was partly built on. I would argue that in this case, unlike symphonic cover albums of Queen songs, the instrumental disc is more in line with a modern transcription like of Mozart (and no, I'm not comparing Freddie to Mozart, I'm comparing classical music practices, which do relate to the Barcelona album, since it started as an operatic project of sorts). When I listen to a piano transcription of Eine Kleine Nachtmusik, which Mozart did not pen himself, I still hear the music Mozart created. The same goes for these instrumentals tracks. I would suggest that you're missing out if you choose to dismiss the instrumental disc. It's a new and different way to hear Freddie's music and you may find much beauty in it. And that goes for the entire Special Edition. It's something different, another way to experience the album. It doesn't negate the original and you don't have to pick one over the other.Absolutely how i see it, too |
winterspelt 05.09.2012 14:32 |
Its not a bad album, the orchestral arrangements had to be changed as keyboards and instruments of an orchestra have differences... BUT... They took excessive "creative liberties". One thing is to change some arrangements cause the keyboard parts were written outside the range of a violin/cello/whatever and another, totally different thing is to change things like adding an additional verse towards the end of La Japonaise (4:17) Also, the mix is awful: Sometimes the 80 piece orchestra sounds so low and shy in the mix that I still cant understand how a few keyboards can sound so powerful and how a full orchestra can sound that bad... An amazing orchestral work sounds awful thanks to the mix... I didnt liked it at all... Thanks God I bought the regular edition! |
Sheer Brass Neck 05.09.2012 16:37 |
dowens wrote: Just be because you end something in minor doesn't make you dishonest. It's clear you dislike the final album, so we can just agree to disagree. But manipulative and dishonest? Can't see that. No, but Freddie's MIH in Mr. Bad Guy was not a dark, brooding song ending in a minor piano chord, it ended on notes in the Ab major scale, with a nice fade out and a drum machine. You could say that it was optimistic. On the MIH album, it was big and orchestrated, and dramatic, as the Ab major became an Ab minor. I'm not a theorist but minor brings tension and drama that a major chord doesn't (why CLTCL is more "upbeat" than WWTLF.) So Freddie wrote the song, thanked his bandmates for not interfering on Mr. Bad Guy, and hopefully produced, the song he WANTED. Now he's passed away, and the song takes on a tone of impending doom due to the instrumentation changes and that's the song that Freddie wanted? He wrote the song MIH that he wanted, the remaining members changed it, I find that dishonest. That's just me though :) |
rhyeking 05.09.2012 17:06 |
It's not like Queen ever said, "Hey, what we did with Freddie's MIH was to restore it to what he intended" or "This was the way Freddie would have wanted it" or even that they were "improving" it. They recorded a new backing track that reflected the feel of the album. They were upfront about what they were doing, that of offering fans alternatives to the songs already released in other forms. A dishonest approach would have seen the band lying about their intentions and the process. The band have been pretty forthcoming over the years about how each version came to be, how tracks were reworked and experimented on. It sounds like you simply don't like that they changed the key and darkened the tone, as if they had no right. They were bandmates and friends for 20 years. Freddie trusted them to finish the album and they knew how to work on each other's tracks and make artistic decisions accordingly. Yes, he wrote it the way he wanted for Mr. Bad Guy, but that doesn't mean any of us know if he'd object to the idea of changing it around for inclusion as a Queen song. |
CosmosTales 05.09.2012 19:32 |
I bought Freddie Solo Collection instead of this kind of sample version.... |
dowens 05.09.2012 19:36 |
I could not agree more rhyeking. I think Queen probably changed MIH to fit the album concept, so that's why they changed it to minor at the end possibly? I don't know. I see what you're saying Sheer Brass Neck, but I just think Freddie gave the members 'free range' on whatever with his music. After all, we all know the famous quote Freddie told Jim Beach before he died..."do whatever you want with my music and image." Paraphrased, of course. I understand music theory, I have a degree in music education and have taught instrumental music in the States for 10+ years. :) |
Sheer Brass Neck 05.09.2012 21:12 |
I agree with you, and rhyeking, dowens, on both of your sentiments. I'm just old school, and agree with Sebastian's line of thinking. Why not have someone repaint Picasso's masterpieces? Maybe there is an artist on an Italian reality painting show called Adamo Lamberto whose yellows are more vibrant than Picasso's, and maybe that's how Picasso really wanted them to be. Maybe. But doubtful. Freddie wrote the songs he wanted to, Queen's surviving members "Queenified" them. I can live with that. I still and will always find certain things about the album manipulative and dishonest, and others who love it I think it's great. |
YourValentine 06.09.2012 01:26 |
For me there is a huge difference between the orchestrated Barcelona project and using the two Mr. Bad Guy tracks on MIH. After all, Queen were Freddie's peers and if he had offered the songs to them in his lifetime they would have probably sounded very similar. I simply have more confidence in the remaining Queen's musical ability and in fact they never claimed they were re-recording them because Freddie did not manage to record them the way they should sound. They re-recorded "Heaven For Everyone" in the same fashion and it was no disrespect to Roger. |
tomchristie22 06.09.2012 01:38 |
Sheer Brass Neck wrote: I'm not a theorist but minor brings tension and drama that a major chord doesn't (why CLTCL is more "upbeat" than WWTLF.)Really? I would've thought CLTCL is more upbeat than WWTLF because WWTLF is a slow, melancholic organ-driven dirge, while Crazy Little Thing is a light (musically and lyrically) rockabilly song. But I guess it really is more to do with a single chord difference, huh. ;) RhyeKing's point is very valid - they only ever set out to be re-doing the two Freddie tracks as Queen versions, not recreating Freddie's versions as they believed he would have preferred them. |
cmsdrums 06.09.2012 02:56 |
Got my Barcelona set today. First thoughts? The hi hat on How Can I Go On is so fucking loud it's unbelievable - did they mix it with earplugs in?!! And on the same song, the kind of triplet bass drum part just before the lead out 'dee dee dee.....' vocals at the end is an integral part of the original but is now missing. It does seem to me that rather just a reproduction, someone has taken some 'creative/artistic' decisions to change things slightly, such as making some instruments carry on longer, bring vocals in and out at very different levels to the originals etc... To me that wasn't the brief and is totally unnecessary. On a plus point, hearing the real instruments, it makes you realise how good a job Mercury, Moran and Richards did matching the synth sounds some 25 years ago, and how well they mixed it. |
Sheer Brass Neck 06.09.2012 05:16 |
tomchristie22 wrote: Really? I would've thought CLTCL is more upbeat than WWTLF because WWTLF is a slow, melancholic organ-driven dirge, while Crazy Little Thing is a light (musically and lyrically) rockabilly song. But I guess it really is more to do with a single chord difference, huh. ;) RhyeKing's point is very valid - they only ever set out to be re-doing the two Freddie tracks as Queen versions, not recreating Freddie's versions as they believed he would have preferred them. Obviously you get music Tom, some people may not know a minor chord from an instrument so that was for their benefit. And the reason I used WWTLF is that it's a slow, melancholic organ-driven dirge. Change all the minor keys in that song to major keys and you'd likely have an uplifting sequence. Which, when Brian passes away, John can say that's what Brian wanted, because he wanted to live forever, so John re-recorded the end section to make it joyful instead of mournful. You can re=record for technology, but the use of a minor in MIH changed the tenor of the track to make it fit in with the death theme. IMHO. |
shamar 06.09.2012 05:59 |
"How can I go on 2012" sounds like "How can I go on 1985". I have the same felling when I heard original versions of "In my defence" and "Time" for the first time. Original versions sounds old but it was correct coz were old. Why "2012 edit" sounds like from mid80's? Worse than 1987 original... |
tonyyy 06.09.2012 09:33 |
I bought it and I like it! Yesterday I ideally spent my evening with Freddie and Montserrat, and it's been nice. Thanks Freddie for all the fantastic muscic that you gave us! Tony link |
rhyeking 06.09.2012 12:49 |
It's funny that Sheer Brass Neck brings up the idea of visual art masterpieces and the idea of changing them around for different purposes. Believe it or not, this practice happens all the damn time, that artwork is procured, altered and presented as something different for another artist. "Redefined," "Parodied," "Homage," and other vaguely pretentious buzz words are used by artists to justify the artistic statement. Some comments the artists make are valid, some are self-indulgent. In music, artists commandeer artwork for album covers with either the same deliberate artistic intent or because it looked cool. Hundreds of album covers are simply works of art altered in some way to suit the sleeve. Many don't credit the original anywhere in the sleeve. Guns N' Roses Crash Test Dummies Led Zeppelin The Smiths Coldplay Collective Soul Here's a list: link And a video: link And believe me, there are many more examples, I just don't have time to hunt them all down. My point is that argument implicit in "why not re-paint Picasso?," or any other artist, falls short when you realize respected (and maligned) artists *have* done that sort of thing in perfectly acceptable ways. For years. And it's not going to stop. Even Queen did it. Twice: News Of The World is an alteration, by the artist himself (Frank Kelly Freas), of the piece "The Gulf Between." Innuendo's front and back covers (and it's related singles) are alterations of the illustrations of JJ Grandville for the book "Un Autre Monde". They "Redefined" and "Recontextualzed" the pieces just as the argument feared. If that was dishonest, shouldn't you return every copy you own of those albums and never ever listen to them again.? |
saj ditta 06.09.2012 18:23 |
i got my disc 4disc barcelona today i gotta say dvd was appalling why wasnt it on bluray?its like it was done in a rush could of been so good so sad to hear@see ryhs@co screw this up after doing a sooperjob with previous stuff.on my 53inch tv dvd looked rough realy awful.these guys either better slow down abit@release high quality stuff from queen@co they let us down with 2011 deluxe editions i mean whats wrong with you muppets?you taking the peees/cus it works.they could of put 88barcelona wich i know is gunna get its own release in the future but they could of done that bit better.my god in freddies name these clowns take the p.ss. |
AlexRocks 06.09.2012 20:16 |
Soooo is this release now by Freddie Mercury, Monsterat Cabelle, and Rufus Tiger Taylor? I love the idea of Rufus being all over me...oops! I mean all over this re-release I was just curious as to how many songs he is now on. |
rhyeking 06.09.2012 20:42 |
It's amusing that people just lump all releases related to Queen, be they Queen itself or solo material, into the category of Queen Are Responsible For This! Brian, Roger and John had nothing to do with the Special Edition's production. It's Freddie's Estate who calls the shots on his solo material. They may consult Queen Productions, since there is overlap in rights for Freddie's Queen material and QPL has resources and staff the Estate may not have, but the decision to create the Special Edition and things like the Very Best Of are all them. Roger and Brian and QPL make zero money on it. John may get some money because his bass work appears on the album, but that's it. Mike Moran would see some nice coin from it, since he co-wrote a bunch of the songs. |
Sheer Brass Neck 06.09.2012 22:00 |
I realize all of your comments are valid RhyeKing, and I've read a lot of your stuff that you write under your real name and think it's well done, so I have no bone to pick with you. But as a knowledgeable writer, you can't say with any sense of conviction that MIH was anything but the "Freddie death album", and Queen knew it. I am a lifelong Queen fan and know my history fairly well. So pre-internet, I and many had never heard of the opening track "It's a Beautiful Day." So we hear this as the opening track, and if you understand Queen, the opening track has always been a key to the album. Here's an unfinished song by Freddie, and he's showing great strength in the face of death by singing It's a Beautiful Day. But wait! This song was written in 1980 when he was alive and well!!! Now the tone has been set. Next is MIH. As stated, the Mr. Bad Guy version may have been about a day in Freddie's life, the gay club "Heaven" that he frequented around the time Mr. Bad Guy was recorded, or about everything in life being made in heaven. His Mr. Bad Guy version was neither happy nor sad. But wait! Freddie's optimistic ending became minor key and plodding, which suited the tenor of the album. Next up was Let me Live. Same thing as IABD. Most people would have assumed it was a plea for Freddie to "let him live", as he has received a death sentence and he's putting his words and music down for the world to see how he's coping. But wait? The song was written in the 80s (a la IABD) long before he knew he was ill. My Life has been Saved was a mostly obscure B-side, but it was rehashed for MIH. Death, dying, theme emerging. Even though these songs had been around in one way or another for a long time, it comes off as a bit cynical and manipulative. Why My Life has Been Saved instead of Rock in Rio Blues or Hijack my Heart? Why It's a Beautiful Day instead of Silver Salmon or Feelings Feeelings? Why Let me Live instead of Hangman the Sheer Heart Attack version of Sheer Heart Attack? Don't you find it odd that all songs are about death and dying? I do and did. Lots of others too. I know you're a fellow Canadian and maybe a Torontonian so I think you may have heard of John Sakamoto from the Toronto Star. He is a huge Queen fan, and he called MIH "bathetic" in his review. Or to put it differently, effusively or insincerely emotional; "a bathetic novel"; "maudlin expressions of sympathy"; "mushy effusiveness"; "a schmaltzy song"; "sentimental soap operas"; "slushy poetry." To each their own, but I find MIH in the Micheal Bolton/Celine Dion world of Hallmark card emotion. Innuendo was a fitting end to Queen, I find MIH mawkish, schamaltzy, and worst of all, a boring album start to finish. That's just me though, and more power to the people who love it. |
Ozz 07.09.2012 00:00 |
Now that i listened the album: The Good: - La Japonaise sounds much better because of the mix and the koto - The Fallen Priest, sounds better and stronger - Exercises in free love, much richer sounds The Bad: - Barcelona sounds bland and boring - How Can i go on. The violin sounds like a cheap addittion. in some moments like a cat howl - The Golden Boy. Awful mix of rufus drums (Loud). Lack of feeling in the playing too The Ugly: - I feel they killed all the former energy of Overture Piccante - Guide me home ending.. they just chopped it. Fuck that! |
rhyeking 07.09.2012 00:12 |
It was the accusation of "dishonesty" that I challenged, not your feelings toward or interpretation of the album. It is art, we can make of it what we want, like it or not like it based on what it says to us. All I ever advocate is trying to fully understand as best we can what Queen were trying to say and how they said it before applying a value judgement on the finished work. To do any less, I feel, is to undervalue our role as the audience and to do ourselves the disservice. I don't think the band was insincere with MIH and if they chose the songs they did and the arrangements/production that tug at the heartstrings, it could be because it's how they felt at the time. Brian was still experiencing ups and downs with his depression and you can hear it on the solo tracks he was recording, including some of the material on 'Back To The Light.' The same went for Roger on 'Happiness?' I recall a quote from Roger, when asked why H? didn't have the same energy as FIS and SF, or even The Cross albums. His reply was something like, "That was the feeling at the time, that's why." I do think there's more going on in MIH than simply "Freddie's Death Album." I think part of the idea was to reflect on the career of Queen, which is done by including songs previously issued as solo tracks, a B-Side and unfinished pieces, new and old. Thematically, I think they were more interested in examining what life is like in the face of adversity (including death). Personal pain is a recurring idea, but so is Hope. |
cmsdrums 07.09.2012 03:35 |
saj ditta wrote: i got my disc 4disc barcelona today i gotta say dvd was appalling why wasnt it on bluray?.What would be the point of putting the videos on a Blu Ray disc? They were only created in standard definition so they will still be in standard definition even if they were provided on a Blu Ray disc as opposed to a DVD. Blu Ray is judt a storage format that enabled hi def content to be provided because it can store a lot more than DVD - they didn't need it because the total playing time of the video clips fits comfortably on a DVD. If like to know therefore why you think it's 'appalling' that the videos didn't come on a Blu Ray disc?? |
Sheer Brass Neck 07.09.2012 07:26 |
Fair enough RhyeKing, plus, I think I've moved this too far from the original thread :) |
YAFF 07.09.2012 09:31 |
Ozz wrote: Now that i listened the album: The Good: - La Japonaise sounds much better because of the mix and the koto - The Fallen Priest, sounds better and stronger - Exercises in free love, much richer sounds The Bad: - Barcelona sounds bland and boring - How Can i go on. The violin sounds like a cheap addittion. in some moments like a cat howl - The Golden Boy. Awful mix of rufus drums (Loud). Lack of feeling in the playing too The Ugly: - I feel they killed all the former energy of Overture Piccante - Guide me home ending.. they just chopped it. Fuck that!Being that "How Can I Go On" is my favorite and they botched it (twice) I can't be bothered with this "Special Edition". I would have never thought I'd prefer a synthesized version over a fully-orchestrated one but the original was mixed properly and accentuated in certain spots for that extra "oomph". Though the "Fallen Priest" does sound great I miss the original opening and so on and so on. My expectations were too high. I applaud them for trying this out and hope it sells enough to justify re-releasing Freddie's other solo stuff. I have a sinking feeling they'll save it for Freddie's next birthday though |
cmsdrums 07.09.2012 10:20 |
I'll second all of that Yaff |
dowens 07.09.2012 22:16 |
Not to beat a dead horse, but I agree with EVERYTHING rhyeking says. :) |
dysan 08.09.2012 01:24 |
Good discussion. For my part, I've listened to Barcelona maybe twice all the way through as it's something that doesn't interest me and for that reason I'm not going to get this reissue. |
Heavenite 08.09.2012 04:03 |
rhyeking wrote: It was the accusation of "dishonesty" that I challenged, not your feelings toward or interpretation of the album. It is art, we can make of it what we want, like it or not like it based on what it says to us. All I ever advocate is trying to fully understand as best we can what Queen were trying to say and how they said it before applying a value judgement on the finished work. To do any less, I feel, is to undervalue our role as the audience and to do ourselves the disservice. I don't think the band was insincere with MIH and if they chose the songs they did and the arrangements/production that tug at the heartstrings, it could be because it's how they felt at the time. Brian was still experiencing ups and downs with his depression and you can hear it on the solo tracks he was recording, including some of the material on 'Back To The Light.' The same went for Roger on 'Happiness?' I recall a quote from Roger, when asked why H? didn't have the same energy as FIS and SF, or even The Cross albums. His reply was something like, "That was the feeling at the time, that's why." I do think there's more going on in MIH than simply "Freddie's Death Album." I think part of the idea was to reflect on the career of Queen, which is done by including songs previously issued as solo tracks, a B-Side and unfinished pieces, new and old. Thematically, I think they were more interested in examining what life is like in the face of adversity (including death). Personal pain is a recurring idea, but so is hope. A fascinating discussion this one. I think that in 2012 we certainly do forget the emotions and experience, or lack thereof, that we had back in both 1991, when Innuendo was released, and in 1995 when Made in Heaven came out. I certainly take the point that the remaining band members constructed this album with the theme of Freddie's passing in mind. Hence the name Made in Heaven I guess. But I think it very much was done in the context of their feelings at the time and was done with absolute respect for their friend who had passed. I remember feeling very grim when I put on the MIH album for the first time all those years ago. And those early sounds on IABD make about about the grimmest sounds you can make. Then suddenly Freddie is singing "Its a beautiful day!". I found that very uplifting and felt like I was more able to listen to the rest of the album in a more positive way. Not that rest of the album was full of joy and light. There are lots of songs about surviving death (My Life Has Been Saved and Let Me Live), but then there's Mother Love, in which it seems to me that all Freddie wanted was peace from his suffering. So I think it was appropriate for the songs chosen to have been very contextual. I mean would you have stuck a version of "Lets Turn It On" next to "Mother Love"? I think not. Or if you did, you would change it to be consistent with the feel of the album, as occurred with "I was Born to Love You". So the songs chosen were mostly very contextual. Had Queen had any subsequent releases with Freddie singing on them, then it would have made more sense to put any other material unrelated to the issue of death on that or those releases I think. Even an album or demos would have been interesting I think, provided they had been marketed as that. On Barcelona, I love that album, even though the title track is not my favourite song. Will definitely be buying this version to listen to their attempts with orchestra. Hopefully its a bit more good and a bit less ugly for me than there has been for some on here. |
ole-the-first 08.09.2012 07:51 |
This Special Edition looks like shit, smells like shit, sounds like shit. Do you need any more proofs that this is shit? |
Heavenite 08.09.2012 09:38 |
Hi Ole When it comes to Freddie, I just gotta see it, smell it and hear it for myself mate. |
AlexRocks 08.09.2012 09:58 |
Lol. I can understand to some degree the criticisms of the studio l.p. "Made In Heaven" but I think it is a genious project just the same from begining to end. I also cosider it a part of the trilogy of studio l.p.s up to that point. Those being "The Miracle", "Innuendo", and "Made In Heaven". I intend on getting the four c.d. set of "Barcelona", and the vinyl...I'm REALLY excited about this...I think it comes out next week in the U.S. if I am correct. |
Pim Derks 09.09.2012 04:07 |
Am I the only one who is annoyed by the ending of La Japonaise? Sounds like an error to me, the "Soobashi"-vocals (or whatever they sing) coming in too early. I edited them of and replaced it with the instrumental version from disc 4. |
john bodega 09.09.2012 04:48 |
"Most people would have assumed it was a plea for Freddie to "let him live"" Most people = the dumbass literalists that thought TMLWKY was about AIDS. I think there's a number of real issues and concerns that people have with Made in Heaven, but the stuff you're talking about here comes down to the listener. Being a Queen novice when I first heard Made in Heaven, I didn't know the origins of the songs, but neither did I assume them all to be about AIDS or death. The constant changes in the vocal style/recording quality would suggest that they weren't all done at the same time, so it's obvious to anyone with ears that the songs aren't all "aargh I'm gonna die!". It can't be helped if some people are bound and determined to view all of the songs from the very narrow perspective of 'this is Brian and Roger manipulating me!'. I suppose some folk thought that "You Don't Fool Me" was Freddie's way of telling his doctors that he thought they were overcharging him for his AZT pills or something. *shrug* "Why My Life has Been Saved instead of Rock in Rio Blues or Hijack my Heart? Why It's a Beautiful Day instead of Silver Salmon or Feelings Feeelings? Why Let me Live instead of Hangman the Sheer Heart Attack version of Sheer Heart Attack?" They weren't making an anthology album; they were trying (perhaps in a futile way?) to make a cohesive piece. I've never felt they entirely succeeded - I think one or two of the songs don't sit quite in place and I honestly think Brian and Roger could've padded it out a bit with their own stuff. In any case, they had an album they wanted to make, and none of the songs you suggested would've made any sense. And some of the crap you're saying about them is callous. I don't find it offensive as such, and if I was Brian or Roger I'd probably laugh it off, but it always baffles me when people on this forum fire off broadsides at what Brian and Roger did on Made in Heaven. Whatever the missteps, these were bereaved guys, and I've never gotten the sense that they acted improperly with that album. I dunno if you've ever tried to make music with the dead, but it's rough ... and the 'manipulation' you accuse them of just does not jive with the facts. What they've done post '97, of course, is another story. Haha. |
Sheer Brass Neck 09.09.2012 22:08 |
Zebonka wrote: "Whatever the missteps, these were bereaved guys, and I've never gotten the sense that they acted improperly with that album." Good for you. I did. "What they've done post '97, of course, is another story. Haha." So you're debating my point about MIH but dismissing 15 years of releases because of your opinion? Interesting. |
john bodega 10.09.2012 00:47 |
You don't -have- a point about Made in Heaven. Looking at an elegiac piece of music and complaining about it being morbid is like complaining about all of the dairy in an ice cream cone. The issue here is that you think it shouldn't have been made at all - good for you, but that isn't a reflection on the album (or its makers) at all. It's squarely a reflection on you, and it's your loss. |
Sheer Brass Neck 10.09.2012 08:26 |
I'm going to channel Sebastian here :) "You don't -have- a point about Made in Heaven." I do. I think the album is manipulative. That's my point. You don't think so. So I guess based on your logic you don't have a point either so why are we debating this? "Looking at an elegiac piece of music and complaining about it being morbid is like complaining about all of the dairy in an ice cream cone." Excellent point, and not being sarcastic. If we can accept that elegiac can be defined as verse composed in memory of the dead, let's look at MIH song by song. IABD? Written in 1980, not about death or dying, could be about a beautiful day. In the context of the album, it's an unfinished first song. Why wasn't it finished? Freddie too ill to complete it a la Mother Love? Or it sets a tone of a man coming to terms with death and dying. Your interpretation, my interpretation, whatever. That's how I see it. Next is MIH? Written in 1986, not about death or dying. LML? Written early 80s, not about death or dying. ML? Written around the time of Freddie's death or early that year, so an honest look at what he was facing. Apart from the scmaltzy end. MLHBS? Written by John Deacon, years before that, so not Freddie's thoughts. They stripped the life out of the B-side version, as it had energy and was optimistic, not so on this plodding rework. I think I have a point ;) which of course you will disagree with :) "The issue here is that you think it shouldn't have been made at all - good for you, but that isn't a reflection on the album (or its makers) at all. It's squarely a reflection on you, and it's your loss." I thought Innuendo was perfect as a goodbye album. In North America we didn't know what his status was until the picture of him leaving the doctor came out in August. To me, that was a poignant, honest album, and there's more emotion in Bijou than the entire MIH album. That's just me though. |
Holly2003 10.09.2012 12:05 |
Sheer Brass Neck wrote: I'm going to channel Sebastian here :) "You don't -have- a point about Made in Heaven." I do. I think the album is manipulative. That's my point. You don't think so. So I guess based on your logic you don't have a point either so why are we debating this? "Looking at an elegiac piece of music and complaining about it being morbid is like complaining about all of the dairy in an ice cream cone." Excellent point, and not being sarcastic. If we can accept that elegiac can be defined as verse composed in memory of the dead, let's look at MIH song by song. IABD? Written in 1980, not about death or dying, could be about a beautiful day. In the context of the album, it's an unfinished first song. Why wasn't it finished? Freddie too ill to complete it a la Mother Love? Or it sets a tone of a man coming to terms with death and dying. Your interpretation, my interpretation, whatever. That's how I see it. Next is MIH? Written in 1986, not about death or dying. LML? Written early 80s, not about death or dying. ML? Written around the time of Freddie's death or early that year, so an honest look at what he was facing. Apart from the scmaltzy end. MLHBS? Written by John Deacon, years before that, so not Freddie's thoughts. They stripped the life out of the B-side version, as it had energy and was optimistic, not so on this plodding rework. I think I have a point ;) which of course you will disagree with :) "The issue here is that you think it shouldn't have been made at all - good for you, but that isn't a reflection on the album (or its makers) at all. It's squarely a reflection on you, and it's your loss." I thought Innuendo was perfect as a goodbye album. In North America we didn't know what his status was until the picture of him leaving the doctor came out in August. To me, that was a poignant, honest album, and there's more emotion in Bijou than the entire MIH album. That's just me though.I have to agree. I find MIH mawkish and cloying, which is why I hardly listen to it. Any memorial song that has the word "heaven" in it is always going to be embarrassing: Queen produced a whole album like that. AC/DC's Back in Black is a good template for a tribute to a dead band member. It has attitude and humour. As Brian May is the one mostly resposible for MIH, you might think he would know this. |
brENsKi 10.09.2012 13:02 |
^^^ have to agree with the above rock music tributes should not be about fawning, slushy ballads and oversentiment....rock the fuck out...that's what Freddie woulda wanted... think the only track that actually does that on MIH is "it's a beautiful day [reprise]" |
YourValentine 10.09.2012 15:02 |
"Any memorial song that has the word "heaven" in it is always going to be embarrassing" I remember a journalist writing that MIH was called MIH because they could not call it "Made In A Computer" |
Holly2003 10.09.2012 15:31 |
YourValentine wrote: "Any memorial song that has the word "heaven" in it is always going to be embarrassing" I remember a journalist writing that MIH was called MIH because they could not call it "Made In A Computer"Ha! |
brians wig 10.09.2012 16:09 |
YourValentine wrote: "Any memorial song that has the word "heaven" in it is always going to be embarrassing" I remember a journalist writing that MIH was called MIH because they could not call it "Made In A Computer"It SHOULD have been called "A Winters Tale". The connotations are obvious enough: this is the last Queen album and since people refer to lifespans as seasons, this album was made in the winter of Queen's life.... |
Ozz 10.09.2012 20:41 |
Funny how people make fun of that album being called "Made in Heaven" when that's not a title made up by QP or Brian after Freddie's dead , but the title for a Freddie mercury song, so its very appropriate... Funny that fans take Queen too seriously, when the band was known for being all their career very relaxed about that. I Guess it's appropriate channeling Freddie this time when he said "fuck everyone", cause he made his songs for himself with no hidden meaning in his lyrics, and just meant to be disposable and never boring.... Freddie will be laughing about all of you |
Ozz 10.09.2012 20:48 |
And lets not forget that MIH had good sales, and made a whole new bunch of people into Queen. In fact most of the people i know fell in love with Queen with that album, and i feel that freddie trademark was still there, even until No one but you. if was afterwards that Brian and Roger, tried to do Queen+ songs in the style of a lame hard rock band... when John Deacon wasn't there |
dowens 10.09.2012 21:25 |
Rock it out?! That's what Freddie would have wanted?! Did you not see the interviews about going back into the studio to make this album? How weird would that have been to work on an album, hearing Freddie's vocals but him not there. I think nothing but love went into MIH and I think it's the perfect ending to the Queen catalog. I hardly doubt "rocking out" was their agenda. Hell, they didn't have to do the album, but did the best they could with what they were given. Boy, we need to create a new thread for this!!! |
john bodega 11.09.2012 06:08 |
"I think the album is manipulative" That's getting knee-deep in the discussion of what is art supposed to do - express an emotion, or make you feel one? I think your feeling here is that Brian and Roger are going out of their way to make you feel something. I've always figured that the album was more an attempt to use what they had to paint a certain picture about what they felt. I have the same discomfort with some of the more 'hatchet job' parts of the album that a lot of people have, but again ... it just strikes me as daft to say that the album is intentionally manipulative because it's a very bold guess as to the motivations of the people who made it. Then again, as a musician I lean more towards the idea of music being a form of expression. Making music as a bereaved person is an act that's rather steeped in catharsis and really do think there's every possibility that the album is more about Brian and Roger (and John) putting out their feelings, using what was available, as opposed to them trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. They had to know those of us that were sharper-eared than the others would know that the songs weren't all done in 90-91 anyway. "there's more emotion in Bijou than the entire MIH album" As a basic statement, I'd agree with that, but then what kind of emotion are we talking about? The emotions of the people making it, or the emotion that it makes us feel? I'm very sure that a lot of emotion went into the making of Made in Heaven, so it'd be churlish to call any of it 'emotionless' by comparison. Obviously it doesn't have the same effect on everyone. For my part, the only tracks I've ever really had strong fondness for on Made in Heaven were the ones actually done while Freddie was on borrowed time. That's just me though. "AC/DC's Back in Black is a good template for a tribute to a dead band member. It has attitude and humour" I agree with that. Although the band quickly passed its use-by date after that. Their replacement singer isn't much use, and the songs have never been as funny as when Bon was around. |
Dane 11.09.2012 08:17 |
Over the years this album started to lean more to the Operatic side rather than the Rock side. I think this reworked version makes it a true Operatic album with Rock influences rather than the other way around. Anyone listening to classical music knows dynamics are a very important part of orchestrated music. This version of the album captures this concept quite brilliantly. Not being seduced by the re-re-re-re-mastering trend of the loudness war! Had a very soothing and fun time listening to it. |
thomasquinn 32989 11.09.2012 08:51 |
Another thing that's very important in classical music is *not to mess with the basic arrangement unless there's a pretty damn good reason for doing so*. When re-arranging a score for a different group (in this case, re-arranging synths for an orchestra), the key is to keep it as close to the original as possible. If you don't, you're not arranging - you're creating a new piece of music. I feel the arranger for this release should have been more modest. From what I've heard so far, this album goes waaaaay beyond the original score. I hope someday, someone will do this right. |
YAFF 11.09.2012 11:48 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Another thing that's very important in classical music is *not to mess with the basic arrangement unless there's a pretty damn good reason for doing so*. When re-arranging a score for a different group (in this case, re-arranging synths for an orchestra), the key is to keep it as close to the original as possible. If you don't, you're not arranging - you're creating a new piece of music. I feel the arranger for this release should have been more modest. From what I've heard so far, this album goes waaaaay beyond the original score. I hope someday, someone will do this right.I have to admit I was initially disappointed with the "Special Edition" but somehow I'm now really appreciating it. Maybe I'm just trying to psychologically stifle buyer's remorse LOL |
AdamMethos 11.09.2012 11:57 |
Zebonka12 wrote: Making music as a bereaved person is an act that's rather steeped in catharsis and really do think there's every possibility that the album is more about Brian and Roger (and John) putting out their feelings, using what was available, as opposed to them trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes.Made in Heaven was one of the first Queen albums I bought (after greatest hits and AKOM). At the time I got it, I had no idea that it was Queen's last album or that it was made after Freddie died. I bought it because none of the tracks on it were duplicated on greatest hits or AKOM (so, a good value haha). So basically, I had no foreknowledge of anything to do with MIH when I first listened to it. The main impression I got from the album as a whole is a wistfulness for days gone by, appreciation for the present, and hopefulness about the future. Despite "heaven" in the title, I didn't connect it to death at all. I didn't interpret "heaven" as "died and gone to" but as "good things come from" and took it as Queen just being cheeky about the quality of the album. |
DLCVinnuendo 11.09.2012 13:00 |
MIH is a good album, but there's nothing of this album really made in heaven, maybe the track 13, but the album counteins 11 tracks, with the last track in three parts... |
DLCVinnuendo 11.09.2012 13:05 |
there are many things interesting in MIH, like example, IWBTLY, a great version, but there are many desapointed things, MLHBS of the album is very weak compairing with the 1989 version, my favorite track of the album is you don't fool me |
thomasquinn 32989 11.09.2012 14:21 |
I never really minded Made In Heaven at all, because the songs on it were, mostly, completely transformed from the Freddie originals into something new. With the Barcelona-thing, I get the impression of something gone wrong halfway between something new and the original freshened up by replaced synth parts. It could easily have been done like the original (only with a full orchestra in place of synths) but it would have taken a great deal more time and thus money. |
Heavenite 11.09.2012 23:59 |
DLCVinnuendo wrote: "MLHBS of the album is very weak compairing with the 1989 version,..." That's funny! I got the MIH album version first years ago, and its only now that I've finally got the Singles Collection that I've heard the original b-side, and its that one that I think is a bit lame.....lol. So it could be that it depends on what you're used to. |
YourValentine 12.09.2012 01:17 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: I never really minded Made In Heaven at all, because the songs on it were, mostly, completely transformed from the Freddie originals into something new. With the Barcelona-thing, I get the impression of something gone wrong halfway between something new and the original freshened up by replaced synth parts. It could easily have been done like the original (only with a full orchestra in place of synths) but it would have taken a great deal more time and thus money.I totally agree. More time, money and maybe a little more musical feeling for the original recordings. Also I agree about MIH - a light year away from the Barcelona project. |
joesilvey 12.09.2012 08:09 |
Not to derail the MIH discussion, but simply because I have to respond to the original topic: I just received my Barcelona special edition set. Now, i haven't listened to every minute of the discs, but I'll say this - I too felt the mix was imbalanced (vocals too loud in places, then buried in others) and the orchestra weak when i heard samples online. But that was on computer speakers, not a proper stereo system. After reviewing Barcelona and Overture Piccante on my high-end stereo... it's stunning. The dynamic range is extreme, so it's more like listening to a MFSL version than it is listening to any radio singles released in the last several years. And of course there are subtleties that we're all used to on the original that sound strange at first, but so far, i'm EXTREMELY pleased with it. It will never replace the original, but it's a lovely alternative re-imagining of it. p.s. i'm the obsessive Queen fan in the house, but my wife WEPT within the first minute of Overture Piccante. Do give it a chance... |
1sharppencil 12.09.2012 10:01 |
there should be no comparisons between this "thing" and "Made in Heaven" - OMG!!! moving on...records should be made with regard to the listener - there's a great picture of Elvis listening to his latest 45 on a cheap plastic portable player; when asked he always replied that he wanted to listen to a single the way his fans do..so let's just suppose most fans have no high-end stereos,ok? this project sucks in oh so many ways - going back and messing with the original piece of work, even if it's no masterpiece, has never been my idea of genius (even if it's removing Spector's production on "Let it Be"!!!) - some small alterations? well even that bugs me (no "long lost guitars" for me, thank you very much!)...the only thing I'm glad about is that this project is being released for the third time! The 1992 reissue, from what I gather, outsold the original - can this one do the same? I doubt it... |
Heavenite 12.09.2012 16:50 |
Hmmm, sounds like there is enough controversy for me to buy one for sure. Especially since I quite liked the album when it came out. Reimagining Freddie's work is all we have left now he is gone. Although I can understand why some people wouldn't want to do this. |
gastelllo 13.09.2012 19:32 |
I listened and found it excellent. |
Heavenite 14.09.2012 03:09 |
Yep, plenty of people like it and plenty of people hate it. So I just gotta get my own I think. |
cmsdrums 15.09.2012 09:57 |
Additionally I'm just watching the DVD for the first time and notice that they've overdubbed the original audio from the La Nit performances of How Can I Go On and The Golden Boy with the new versions - how totally unnecessary. |
dysan 16.09.2012 02:31 |
I picked this up in HMV yesterday and had a look. I put it back and walked off shaking my head. |
john bodega 17.09.2012 02:47 |
"they've overdubbed the original audio from the La Nit performances of How Can I Go On and The Golden Boy with the new versions - how totally unnecessary" I'd change that to 'utterly insignificant'. It wouldn't be hard to just put the originals on top again. It was mimed anyway, it's not like anything important got replaced. Celebrate - you've got the videos on DVD now! |
GuitarMay 17.09.2012 07:14 |
I will hear and check these Remastered version now ! |
Doga 18.09.2012 06:18 |
I love the new version, they put a lot of effort in it. Some thing of the 80' really sucks, and the use of synthetizers is one of these. I imagine Barcelona was made with keyboards because is the way they did the things at the time,but now is much better. |
YAFF 20.09.2012 19:15 |
Doga wrote: I love the new version, they put a lot of effort in it. Some thing of the 80' really sucks, and the use of synthetizers is one of these. I imagine Barcelona was made with keyboards because is the way they did the things at the time,but now is much better.I love it too. My only complaint is they couldn't get HCIGO right TWICE. On the "bonus version" Freddie's two soaring "How can I go on" bits are completing buried |
Toozeup 22.09.2012 04:31 |
pittrek wrote:Just what I was thinking!Pim Derks wrote: Let's wait for the new Queen-album, "Mr. Bad Guy" to be released. Freddie would've wanted it that way.Actually Brian's guitar and Roger's drumming would help the songs from the album :-) |
thomasquinn 32989 22.09.2012 05:22 |
Doga wrote: I love the new version, they put a lot of effort in it. Some thing of the 80' really sucks, and the use of synthetizers is one of these. I imagine Barcelona was made with keyboards because is the way they did the things at the time,but now is much better.Freddie and Mike Moran both stated that they used keyboards because Freddie insisted (Mike tried desperately to get him to use a real orchestra), Freddie explaining this by saying "you just don't have that kind of control over a real orchestra" (i.e. "I can't write the parts down accurately enough for an orchestra to play them up to my standards"), consult the Freddie Mercury Solo Collection for details. |
cmsdrums 23.09.2012 10:33 |
So basically Jim Beach is talking shit then in the promo film for this release, where he says that Freddie couldn't be bothered to use an orchestra, whereas the truth is that he could be bothered but actively chose not to, in order to have the album exactly as he wanted it to sound, thereby completely negating the reason given by Beach for re-recording it. Thanks for picking this up TQ |
thomasquinn 32989 23.09.2012 11:31 |
@cmsdrums: That's the info you get from the Solo Collection. I can't incontrovertibly say Jim Beach is talking shit, but unless the Solo Collection contains completely fabricated interviews and quotations, that is what it looks like. |
cmsdrums 23.09.2012 11:40 |
I suppose it could that the Solo collection is wrong (which is feasible when you consider the numerous mistakes on other releases), but I'm guessing if it actually contains quotes and references specific interviews, that it's Jim Beach that is making excuses this time. |
winterspelt 24.09.2012 02:04 |
While they did some nice job, the thing I hate the most is that they took so many liberties: removed the flute part on La Japonaise (min 1.55) removed the amazing keyboards on Excercises added an unnecesary chorus on La Japonaise (min 4.16) Removed the amazing piano intro at The Fallen Priest etc etc etc etc... |
Missreclusive 24.09.2012 08:39 |
Isn't just about everything done for the Almighty dollar? I enjoy the original, it is genuine. |
Mack2008 26.09.2012 11:20 |
If we are to believe what Jim Beach says in a number of interviews....Freddie said they could do whatever they wanted with his music and his image as long as they never made him boring. I used to get bent out of shape when remixes or new edits of tracks were released. After watching the new documentary (Great Pretender) I don't feel that way any more. I'd rather see stuff remixed, re-recorded and released as something "new" so it catches the attention of a new generation of music fans. We had our time with the classics of Freddie & Queen. They still exist. We can still choose to go back and listen to them. The new stuff also exists for those that want something different (maybe not better but different). If Freddie truly saw his songs as disposable and throw away then let Jim Beach and the rest of Queen do whatever they want with them. As long as Freddie is still being discussed and kept in the public eye thats okay by me. Thats just my thought for the day. I'm glad we're all still listening to Queen & Freddie and enjoying the wonderful music he gave to the world. |
joesilvey 26.09.2012 11:25 |
^^^^^^ well said... my feelings as well |
*goodco* 05.01.2013 09:49 |
A christmas present we've been waiting to open since September. Reading the reviews here, we knew what to expect. It has its moments, yet manages to diminish some of the most powerful moments. The album was never a favorite. But the title track....I listen to the LP version often, as it follows the studio TSMGO version on MY GsHits III setlist. On my Freddie best of, I have the extended version, 'Exercises', Ensueno (inst) and the 'Guide Me Home/How Can I Go On' demo included. These still get a spin quite often. The title track was the first song we heard in our limo after our wedding 10+ years ago...so it has always been very special to us, This was our first 'Queen' purchase since 'Live at the Bowl'. The idea was a good one. The love and effort put forth cannot be doubted. Just rather sad and disappointing that an orchestra (and the mixing) would detract and not enhance some of the power and majesty from the original. (who knows...maybe in 2016 they'll issue a remastered version;-)) |
Sebastian 05.01.2013 10:28 |
cmsdrums wrote: So basically Jim Beach is talking shit then in the promo film for this release, where he says that Freddie couldn't be bothered to use an orchestraOf course he is. Saying 'that's what Freddie would've wanted' is an automatic boost for sales. |
Snackpot 06.01.2013 07:43 |
It's not terrible. But my concern is I think the orchestra somewhat drowns out the vocals a bit |
Matias Merçeauroix 12.01.2013 00:31 |
I didn't like the fact that the arrangements are 99% true to the original version. You hear it's ALMOST complete. I was highly upset about that. I didn't like the mix either, the vocals were either too loud or too drowned in the background. Besides, so much for real orchestra! It does not sound THAT much better. I still choose the original, no doubt about it. But, you know, it's a matter of opinion. Maybe I'm too used to the original versions. |
john bodega 12.01.2013 00:54 |
Haven't heard all of the songs yet but with Barcelona it's really missing a certain percussiveness now. They didn't translate the 'oomph' of some of the louder parts very well. I definitely love the actual sound of real instruments, I'll take that over shitty synths any day - but the arranger didn't really do their homework on this one. I'm just thinking how much better this would've sounded with balls-to-the-wall orchestral percussion. I dunno, maybe they were under pressure to keep it 'traditional' because of all of the orchestra types hanging around, but I reckon they ought to have bucked a few trends and just gone for it. |