| david (galashiels) 25.01.2012 17:00 |
for the last 2 weeks my son has been of school,all because of a misunderstood text message. a few weeks ago a teammate of his hung himself(14yrs old),and the usual facebook messages came up. by the end of the day my son was fed up with the same people posting/pasting the same messages all day long(5 people said the same thing over and over). he sent a tex to a person to say he was fed up with the same posts/people..........fair enough. school on the monday morning he was jostled,sworn at,kicked,and finaly beaten up by 3 cowards..they said he had been disrespectful to there dead mate(and my sons mate i may ad). he was brought home and stayed in his room for the rest of the day.. he got a text from a friend saying, someone said the text said he was glad he was dead??. not true,the deputy rector saw the text and said it was rubish.. night time the online threats started to come,,,,,,,,,,,,,police time. as a result 1 boy has been charged,3 given warnings. the complete third year was called to special assembly to explain the text was not what they thought.and who ever started the romour was wrong. so after 1 1/2 weeks my son went to school today,police warned the complete year,deputy rector warned the complete year. so of he went(remember he has spent nearly a week in his room)scared but reasured by me and his mum it was fine, phone call 1 hour into his day from school.someone had threatened to stab him with a pen,others had abused him verbaly. he is now back home,a scared/frightened 14 yr old boy who has vowed never to go back to school. so it seems the bullys win again. BASTARDS. |
| MadTheSwine73 25.01.2012 17:48 |
Bullies are assholes. I know 'cause I was bullied on and off my whole life. Hope thing get better for you, your son and your wife. |
| catqueen 25.01.2012 17:59 |
That's horrible, teenagers can be horrible... hope your son is ok... its a tough enough time for him without that kind of crap. |
| david (galashiels) 25.01.2012 18:10 |
the text read.............i am so fed up of the same people posting the same thing about ?????? on there f/book page im thinking about closing my account...if they dont know about??????they never will.and his thought was,think of the faamily having to read the same thing over and over again.. seems ok to me |
| GratefulFan 25.01.2012 18:50 |
Being a parent is the hardest job in the world. A lousy situation and a really terrible burden on a young man. All I can offer is my best hopes for a resolution and a reminder that there is always opportunity in crisis. In the times that my son has faced really difficult things I've tried to reassure him that this too would pass and that try as he might he could not avoid being a stronger, wiser and more courageous and perceptive person on the other side of it. It's hard for them to see the value in that now when all they want are friends and acceptance and a little independence, but pity the child that never has troubles. |
| pittrek 26.01.2012 02:17 |
Yes, bullies ARE bastards |
| Hangman_96 26.01.2012 07:49 |
Bullies have always been bastards. There are many of them in my school. They smoke, drink, lose their virginity, mock other people and they think it's cool. I hope your son is ok soon. |
| thomasquinn 32989 26.01.2012 10:00 |
Bullys = retards. You can't argue with a retard because he/she is...retarded. They are mind numbingly stupid, and tend to translate their stupidity into violence, verbal or otherwise. It sucks that they can do this, but at least you can be secure in the knowledge that the chances of these dumb fucks ever amounting to anything are negligible. When your son is a happy and successful adult, they'll be wondering when exactly they decided to take back-breaking, demeaning jobs for the rest of their lives because they are fucking asses who are criminally stupid to boot. |
| Micrówave 26.01.2012 10:16 |
That's horrible that you're son is going through this. There are some positives to come out of all this. The world is full of bullies and that will never change, but he will be much better equipped to handle those potential times. But this is also an eye-opener about kids, texting, and facebook. Parents need to monitor this behavior if they're going to introduce it to children at such a young age... self included. My daughter had her first cell phone at 12. I had a land line. She was texting within months. I had a land line. She had her facebook page (that I know of!!!!) at 14. I had a land line. At what age is a child ready for the pressures of a social networking system. Each is different... mine could've probably waited a couple of years more, but it is our responsibility to assure that they're ready. And we, as parents, have nothing to go on for reference... this isn't something you can ask your parents or older friends how they handled... they never had to. Just know that you're fighting the good fight and keep your communication line with your son clear. |
| The Real Wizard 26.01.2012 13:02 |
Maybe you should just stop talking about politics and focus on issues like this. You appear quite human after all ! |
| The Real Wizard 26.01.2012 13:08 |
David - tell your son that while it's tough right now, bullying will make him stronger and wiser. He will develop backbone, and empathy for people in similar situations. Takes one to know one, as they say. It's great to see so many anti-bullying campaigns popping up all over the world. But most of them are missing an important fact - bullying doesn't suddenly stop after high school. It happens in the workplace too. So if anything, experiencing some bullying early on preps you for the real world, as you'll have the tools to endure it. |
| Micrówave 27.01.2012 14:30 |
Yes, and watch out for people taking what he says out of context and then group bullying begins. Bob? |
| The Real Wizard 29.01.2012 14:18 |
Can't you get your jollies from some other place than trolling a forum? |
| GratefulFan 30.01.2012 10:05 |
I know what he means...a bit. If you've ever spent any degree of time holding a minority position on the internet in opposition to a significantly greater number of people you'll know that there is a particular dynamic that can develop that really does feel like bullying or a kind of almost ostracisation, even though it's not. It's amplified I think by a sense I have that people are less likely to detect finer, more subtle differences between the beliefs or arguments of an array of people in general disagreement with them. As such it really could feel like a homogeneous deluge of "America sucks and so do you" thuggery, even though that is the last thing that was intended. It's been my experience that people have to be a bit more careful than we generally are with tone and volume when there is kind of a lopsided conversation going on to avoid leaving people feeling unheard and set upon. No idea if or how that applies to Microwave's comments, but I do know that speaking generally it can and does happen. |
| Micrówave 30.01.2012 10:13 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Can't you get your jollies from some other place than trolling a forum? It's okay, man. I was just using you guys as a perfect example. What should have been a good discussion turned into your opinion about how everyone hates America and Grateful Fan's opinion about every US soldier (past and present) is just a glorified killing machine. You were expecting everyone to simply agree with your stance and not take offense? And what did we come away with from that discussion? Nothing... not a damn thing. So using your definition, you are just trolling as much as me. |
| GratefulFan 30.01.2012 10:25 |
Ridiculous representation of something I 1) don't think and 2) never remotely implied. From the guy who's been complaining about being 'taken out of context' and tragically misunderstood. Well isn't it ironic. |
| greaserkat 30.01.2012 11:26 |
GratefulFan wrote: Well isn't it ironic.========================================================== It's like raiiiiiiiiin on your wedding day; it's like a freeeeeee riiiiiiiiide when you've already paid. Sorry, I couldnt resist. |
| david (galashiels) 30.01.2012 16:56 |
the school has now decided,my son.can have some home tutors,untill he is ready to return to school.....if ever. the bullys have been spoken to and parents informed.and said sorry. ye right,as if that will work. |
| catqueen 30.01.2012 17:40 |
Micrówave wrote:I don't think anyone was implying that everyone hates america or that the american army is any worse then any other army... Just that actions like those that were being discussed should not be considered part of 'normal' army life/operations. Not trying to start anything here, but i hope you didn't feel like i was trying to insinuate that i hate america or something? I would be equally against ANY person or soldier doing that, no matter what country (including my own).The Real Wizard wrote: Can't you get your jollies from some other place than trolling a forum?It's okay, man. I was just using you guys as a perfect example. What should have been a good discussion turned into your opinion about how everyone hates America and Grateful Fan's opinion about every US soldier (past and present) is just a glorified killing machine. You were expecting everyone to simply agree with your stance and not take offense?And what did we come away with from that discussion? Nothing... not a damn thing. So using your definition, you are just trolling as much as me. |
| catqueen 30.01.2012 17:41 |
david (galashiels) wrote: the school has now decided,my son.can have some home tutors,untill he is ready to return to school.....if ever. the bullys have been spoken to and parents informed.and said sorry. ye right,as if that will work.Yikes, hope things cool down soon :( At least he can keep up his education while he is out of school. Are there any other schools in the area that he could transfer to? |
| Micrówave 30.01.2012 18:15 |
GratefulFan wrote: Ridiculous representation of something I 1) don't think and 2) never remotely implied. From the guy who's been complaining about being 'taken out of context' and tragically misunderstood. Well isn't it ironic. It is the very function of the military machine to strip the enemy of all humanity so normal young men can go out and become functional killers.Hmmm.... So someone stole your QZ account and wrote this? That's a nice blanket statement, I thought the "military machine' had more than one function. So you and Bob keep saying "I didn't say that!!!" but jump on me for defending MOST of the military and citizens of the United States. |
| Micrówave 30.01.2012 18:17 |
Ironic, isn't it? You're not gonna get mad now and tell me to troll someplace else also, right? THE MORALE OF THIS THREAD: Don't let people bully you if you truly believe in what's right. There's some pretty shitty people out there... some have uniforms, but not all. But one should never feel pressured by the "majority" to not take a stand. |
| YourValentine 31.01.2012 08:05 |
I am really sorry about the bullying your son has to cope with, David. Actually, I already was shocked by the start of the "story", i.e. a team mate of your son hung himself - like that is not a traumatising experience in itself! I do not understand why it is your son who has to stay at home now and not the students who abused him. In general, I do not understand where all this hatred, lack of sympathy and lack of loyalty towards your co-students comes from. Surely, the social networks alone cannot be blamed, there must be a condsiderable erosion of values when it comes to school education. What happened to the idea that students all "sit in the same boat" and need to help each other? As to the rest of the thread - it is a real pity it was hijacked by what must be a knee-jerk reaction to Microwave's posting although he made very valid points and stuck to the issue. |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2012 10:33 |
GratefulFan wrote: It is the very function of the military machine to strip the enemy of all humanity so normal young men can go out and become functional killers. Microwave wrote: Grateful Fan's opinion about every US soldier is just a glorified killing machineYou need to go back to school to work on your reading comprehension. GratefulFan was asserting that the machine (i.e. the people in charge) AIM TO strip the enemy of all humanity, which doesn't necessarily imply they accomplish that goal with every soldier. |
| Micrówave 31.01.2012 12:49 |
Oh, so I'm supposed to do what you do.... add something in (i.e. the ones in charge) and totally change the context of what he posted?
That's what started the whole problem!!!! You and "the crew" assuming I was glorifying peeing on dead bodies.
I don't think there's an issue with my reading comprehension... but more an issue of you and Grateful Fan choosing your blanket statements more carefully. Then when it goes awry, stop changing the subject or posting your "quit trolling" remarks. Stick to YOUR guns... if you really believe in what you said.
I mean really... you're reaching quite a bit, Bob.
It is the very function of the military machine to strip the enemy of all humanity so normal young men can go out and become functional killers. "It is the function of the military machine to" is QUITE DIFFERENT than "The ones in charge aim to". I actually agree with some of what you're trying to say. But I don't think your "Ones In Charge" were condoning the urination act... they were probably (1) horrified as much as you and I AND (2) embarrassed that they're gonna have to answer for it. Bottom line is, you were showing a perfect example of bullying on Queenzone. One person (in this case TQ) lights a fire and certain people (I'm being nice here) jump on. You really actually believed that I was ok with this horrible act. So you threw common sense out the window as well. All to be an internet bully. |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2012 14:18 |
Apples and oranges. Don't attempt to scribble in a line to connect two things that are not related. There's a major difference between this and the urination thing. You saying that worse things happen in war, like rape and torture, effectively stating that urinating on dead bodies is the lesser of the two evils, is a commonly used tactic to attempt to distract from the subject at hand to exonerate (or at best, overlook) one group's actions by vilifying another who has done something similar or worse. In this case, it's people like yourself who are unequivocally pro-military and use this tactic to attempt to deflect the attention elsewhere when the military, who are supposed to be "fighting for our freedoms," have done wrong in some way. It's on page one of the right-wing playbook. GratefulFan made a true statement about the way soldiers are trained. By dehumanizing the enemy, it is easy to train soldiers to be mindless drones devoid of emotion who will take out whoever they are told to take out. It is not a blanket statement. This is the way war has worked for the last five thousand years. It's not something the United States came up with. |
| Micrówave 31.01.2012 15:18 |
1. You're beating a dying argument. By inferring I am making a comparison was your first mistake. My point was clearly made... what 2 or 3 marines do (in disgust) is not the worst thing that has ever happened in war. If it were a comparison, you'd have to bring a hell of lot more than rape and torture into the foray... you went there, I didn't. You twisted it into a way that you and TQ could have some fun. And then GratefulFan jumped in... even when after several attempts to clarify, you kept it going. 2. GratefulFan did NOT give a true statement about military training. That would infer (your strategy) that he is somehow knowledgeable about the way soldiers, in this case the Marines, are trained. There are several different fields within the Marines... they have medics, corpsmen, engineers, pilots, scientists, etc. To say they're all trained like drones is factually incorrect. If it were, why would they be one of the strongest military forces in the world? (ONE OF, not THE... in case you're planning on going there) And if you're still convinced that you're the moral compass of what's wrong and right with the military, why not try talking (directly) to someone who has served, instead of making hateful remarks about what they do (and sacrifice) on a daily basis. (and then piling on someone who says 'hey wait a minute, this isn't a fair representation of The United States Military!!') |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2012 15:42 |
Micrówave wrote: By inferring I am making a comparison was your first mistake.If it wasn't a comparison, then what was it? You were the first (and only) person to bring up rape and torture. There are several different fields within the Marines... they have medics, corpsmen, engineers, pilots, scientists, etc. To say they're all trained like drones is factually incorrect.Obviously she was referring to the people on the front lines, not the entire military. It is no secret that the US military recruits soldiers almost exclusively from states with consistently low IQ scores. These are the people doing the dirty work. Do you think they'll be able to kill without remorse if their military training consists of the history of middle eastern architecture? No - they are taught that the enemy is a bunch of savages that need to be eliminated, otherwise the US will be at risk. It's not hard to hammer that point into someone with a ninth grade education. I know plenty of people who have served in the military in various positions. Please don't patronize me and stick to the subject at hand. |
| Micrówave 31.01.2012 15:58 |
It is no secret that the US military recruits soldiers almost exclusively from states with consistently low IQ scoresWow... I'm starting to believe you're one sick bastard. If it's no secret, source please? Besides "They say"... So now everyone gets IQ tests. And somewhere, someone says "Hey, look at all these scores in the 90s from... say Alabama. Let's go grab these people up because they're stupid? Dude, Oswald killed JFK. Sorry to disappoint you... Mr. Conspiracy. Although, feel free to continue passing out your literature at Dealey Plaza. I know plenty of people who have served in the military in various positions. Please don't patronize me and stick to the subject at hand.Ah, the ol' 'I've got friends who are black...' Priceless. |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2012 16:08 |
So now everyone gets IQ tests.Absolutely. For decades the military has been very open about wanting to ensure a respectable level of intelligence in all departments to get the job done, but a few years back they lowered their standards so they could get more people to serve in Iraq. link There was a 60 Minutes on the topic at the time. There was footage of ads being posted on street corners in South Carolina and Mississippi small towns in search of soldiers. One of the army officials interviewed spoke with political double-speak like "some states were preferred over others." Ah, the ol' 'I've got friends who are black...' Priceless.Why challenge my position if your rebuttal is preconceived? Were you expecting me to name names and provide full minutes of our coffee meeting? |
| Micrówave 31.01.2012 17:09 |
Interesting article. However, nowhere in the article was this accusation:
It is no secret that the US military recruits soldiers almost exclusively from states with consistently low IQ scores Of course the military has lowered it's standards. That happens at war time or when there are a lot of deployed troops. Duh. But they are not actively recruiting from exclusive states with consistently low IQ scores. That's utter bullshit that you just made up. I have a lot of friends that write articles... |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2012 17:19 |
I meant "recently," not from day one. Could've worded that better, I admit.
But the "that's what happens at war time" line is a load of crap. The fact that they have to lower their standards says a lot about the kind of people they need to fight in wars. Quantity over quality.
That's utter bullshit that you just made up.Yeah, you have to assert I made it up because it doesn't fit your worldview. Even if there was a NY Times article I could link to, you'd label it as left wing propaganda. |
| Micrówave 31.01.2012 17:25 |
If the article said what you claimed it said. That last example did not. So there you go, flying off the handle again. Claiming I'm dismissing facts that aren't there? Really? I think I've presented my argument in a pretty clear, concise fashion. It's YOU that keeps tripping things up with your rhetoric. So maybe YOU shouldn't enter political discussions and stick to Queen related topics, which you obviously excell at... and I'm not being sarcastic there. |
| Micrówave 31.01.2012 17:28 |
But that last article you linked to was most certainly left wing propaganda. You can't tell that from reading it? C'mon dude. The only thing missing from that article was the cast of Glee standing up saying "Yeah!" after every point. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why the military lowered their standards for recruitment in the last few years. You must think the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy was instituted to be nice to gay people, don't you? |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2012 17:29 |
So maybe YOU shouldn't enter political discussions and stick to Queen related topics, which you obviously excell at... and I'm not being sarcastic there.Thanks. But there really is no point in attempting a rational discussion with you on subjects like this. You'll always find a way to deny, distort, twist or vilify the opposition to hammer your talking points home. No answer is ever good enough. |
| Micrówave 31.01.2012 17:32 |
No, I think you (and everyone who read these) can agree that most of the time I'm bringing BOTH SIDES to the argument. I've never been one to follow the popular beliefs especially if their ass-backwards. |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2012 17:34 |
Both sides? Mentioning torture and rape during a discussion about US marines urinating on dead bodies is the other side? It's completely unrelated. It just makes you look like you're looking to stir the pot. |
| david (galashiels) 31.01.2012 17:43 |
i have to say,,i only posted the initial post?as a personaal problem with bullys. i didnt expect all the other things to follow, im sorry i didnt mean to start an argument amongst the zoners... a little update,my son has now(2 weeks+ later)has been offered counciling for the trauma he has suffered,and the school has offered profesional help.as he was not at school to get it in the first place. they say that as he has suffered more than others they will give him more support and pastoral care. thats good of them,but a shame its 2 weeks to late. but at last they are trying to help. |
| Micrówave 31.01.2012 18:00 |
just makes you look like you're looking to stir the pot.What about your claims? All military personel are just killers and nothing more? The Military looks for stupid people in certain parts of the country? So we're BOTH trying to stir the pot? Perhaps we should have smoked it instead. |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2012 18:55 |
Micrówave wrote: All military personel are just killers and nothing more?Again, nobody made that claim. The claim was that soldiers are trained to strip the enemy of their humanity to make the kill easier. Which they are. But you probably would be fun to smoke up with. |
| The Real Wizard 31.01.2012 19:06 |
david (galashiels) wrote: im sorry i didnt mean to start an argument amongst the zoners...It's okay, these things tend to happen around here. Thanks for creating a thread that led to interesting results. the school has offered profesional help.Good to hear. I'm sure he'll pull through it all. |
| GratefulFan 01.02.2012 00:08 |
Micrówave wrote: No, I think you (and everyone who read these) can agree that most of the time I'm bringing BOTH SIDES to the argument. I've never been one to follow the popular beliefs especially if their ass-backwards. As relates to your completely dyslexic reading of my posts on this topic, what I'd agree to is that you seem to be having a (presumably) scintillating conversation entirely with yourself. It appears to me that you have taken very specific internal issues of the United States as they played out in the media at home over this incident and projected them all over me as I'm trying to talk about something completely different. I"m not interested in the limited and limiting debate about whether Barack Obama or Rachel Maddow or Bob or whoever insulted the USMC. That's your little domestic squabble to have at home, and not one that frankly is of much interest or concern to me. Because they're not our citizens or our troops to fret over in this case, the far more compelling line of thought for me is the effect of war and the behaviour of soldiers in general in these terrible, relentless, stressful conditions. Which is precisely what I was talking about when you went all strawman on me an half the other participants in the conversation. |
| GratefulFan 01.02.2012 00:13 |
david (galashiels) wrote: i have to say,,i only posted the initial post?as a personaal problem with bullys. i didnt expect all the other things to follow, im sorry i didnt mean to start an argument amongst the zoners... a little update,my son has now(2 weeks+ later)has been offered counciling for the trauma he has suffered,and the school has offered profesional help.as he was not at school to get it in the first place. they say that as he has suffered more than others they will give him more support and pastoral care. thats good of them,but a shame its 2 weeks to late. but at last they are trying to help. I was more worried that your thread got sidetracked. :) Your situation is such a huge thing for a family to deal with. Thanks for the update, and hang in there. |
| inu-liger 01.02.2012 03:09 |
GratefulFan wrote:david (galashiels) wrote: i have to say,,i only posted the initial post?as a personaal problem with bullys. i didnt expect all the other things to follow, im sorry i didnt mean to start an argument amongst the zoners... a little update,my son has now(2 weeks+ later)has been offered counciling for the trauma he has suffered,and the school has offered profesional help.as he was not at school to get it in the first place. they say that as he has suffered more than others they will give him more support and pastoral care. thats good of them,but a shame its 2 weeks to late. but at last they are trying to help.I was more worried that your thread got sidetracked. :) Your situation is such a huge thing for a family to deal with. Thanks for the update, and hang in there. Which is precisely WHY I made this topic below for them to spar it out within, because quite honestly this is bullshit when it becomes so intensely personal that it spills over into non-relating threads! link TAKE IT OVER THERE BOYS. Enough is enough! |
| YourValentine 04.02.2012 02:36 |
david (galashiels) wrote: i have to say,,i only posted the initial post?as a personaal problem with bullys. i didnt expect all the other things to follow, im sorry i didnt mean to start an argument amongst the zoners... a little update,my son has now(2 weeks+ later)has been offered counciling for the trauma he has suffered,and the school has offered profesional help.as he was not at school to get it in the first place. they say that as he has suffered more than others they will give him more support and pastoral care. thats good of them,but a shame its 2 weeks to late. but at last they are trying to help. You are really the last person who has a reason to apologize here. I am glad they finally care about your son and I hope he comes out of this strong. I think we must understand why students get bullied in order to stop it, I really do not understand why this happens. |
| -fatty- 2850 04.02.2012 04:56 |
I cant be bothered to read this thread in in it's entirity but it appears as though your son has been excluded from school for peeing on a U.S soldier? Wow! You palemerks are some crazy mo-fos. fatty. |
| GratefulFan 04.02.2012 10:44 |
What is a palemerk? Google was...not helpful. |
| Hangman_96 04.02.2012 14:07 |
Is it something related to poker? |
| GratefulFan 04.02.2012 14:23 |
I think it probably has something to do with Scotland or football or football in Scotland. But the word immediately made me think of 'meerkat' (!), and until somebody rescues David from my ignorance I'm stuck thinking of him as a giant member of the mongoose family who presides over a somewhat smaller mongoose like creature who has potentially been excluded from school for peeing on a US soldier. Somebody. Please. Help David not be a meerkat. |
| The Real Wizard 04.02.2012 14:24 |
YourValentine wrote: I think we must understand why students get bullied in order to stop it, I really do not understand why this happens.In a nutshell, most bullying is done by kids with low self-esteem. By bringing others down to their level, it validates their own existence. But of course it can be more complicated than that. Psychologists have studied it for ages. The worst symptom of bullying is feeling isolated, so the best way to combat bullying is to have a network of people on your side. But there's another angle that most people miss - bullying doesn't always stop in the schoolyard. These kids grow up and they bully in the workplace. Professional bullies. And they're often your boss. It's tougher to combat it at work, because any kind of action could result in you losing your job. |
| Hangman_96 04.02.2012 16:53 |
The Real Wizard Bob, please check your email. |
| YourValentine 05.02.2012 05:58 |
I am afraid David is a palemerk by birth or at least by location :-) Back to topic - I believe that bullying is a relatively new phenomenon in schools. It must come from somewhere because I remember times when bullying simply did not happen in schools. Perhaps education has changed because hitting at smaller children or ganging up upon individual students was such a no-go in "my days" that students who did not follow these rules would have been unable to find other kids who helped them bully individual students. Also, in my school days teachers tried very hard to teach us how people are different and how you cannot under any circumstance make fun of other peoples' shortcomings or inabilities. Maybe this stopped at some point in time. We did not have any social workers or additional pschiatrists or something - just teachers. On the other hand bullying did happen at work places, it just was not called bullying. |
| GratefulFan 06.02.2012 12:42 |
Armed with that clue, I found this: I live in Galashiels, the largest town in the Scottish Borders, which is (if you haven't grasped it yet!) in Scotland. Completely unremarkable town really, bad areas, good areas and some really scummy areas. The one funny bit of trivia is that people from Galashiels are derogatorily known as 'palemerks', where pale is, you know, a pale, or bucket and 'merk' being a local pronounciation of the word 'mark'. So bucket marks? What's significant about that? Well, that's because Galashiels was the last place in the Scottish Borders to get flushing toilets. So when the rest of the Borders had their fancy flushing thingies, they were mocking the people of Galashiels for the marks on their arses left by the buckets they were still shitting in. In case anybody else was curious. :) Bullying is not a new phenomenon. It's been a feature of literature and childhood experience for ages. The child rights movement was still in it's nascence even in the 1970's, and bullying or taunting and teasing at low and mid levels were not really addressed at school by teachers or schools leaders in my school years. I was bullied badly in Grade 7 - to the point that I was twisted into a new person in some senses - by - wait for it - MY TEACHER. I wouldn't call that common, but at least one other time in Grade 1 a teacher brought a classmate who struggled a lot and sometimes urinated in his pants to the front of the classroom with urine soiled jeans for everybody else to look and laugh. And she wasn't cruel to us generally - I can only blame that on ignorance and thinking that shaming was an effective method of discipline or correction. Still, I can still feel his burning torment even now across all these years. It was a terrible thing to do a small child. There were none of the modern day awareness campaigns and the school yard could be a jungle. We had a girl in our class that had an artificial limb below the knee on one leg. Back then the limbs were made of wood, and this miscreant in our class I can only imagine is dead by now of idiocy of some kind used to spend recesses largely unhindered running around hooting "2 by 4, 4 by 8, How do you measure a lumber leg?" Children who were overweight were openly and consistently picked last for teams and their Valentine's boxes were routinely stuffed with the Valentine's cards with cartoon elephants or hippos on them at that yearly ritual. If you were in any way marginalized by anything, even fleetingly, there would be repercussions from the group. Almost everyone was a victim in some way at some point, and you just dealt with it and adapted where you could. Childhood in my era was in it's way the purest of merit societies. It could be cruel, and it could be wonderful, and it was a pretty good preparation for the joys and inequities of adulthood in the end. Things have changed greatly on the surface and in the literature and in the official zero tolerance policies of schools and school boards, but underneath it seems to me that the same age old currents of childhood still ebb and flow. I was surprised by your experience YV. I wouldn't have guessed that at all typical or common. |
| thomasquinn 32989 06.02.2012 14:47 |
I would be willing to concede that Micrówave brings "the other side" to quite a number of arguments. Not that he has ever even for a moment seriously pondered both sides to any great issue. But then again, neither am I willing to see the other side's point of view in quite a number of things (the white American South's response to civil rights legislation, for instance). |
| david (galashiels) 06.02.2012 17:08 |
thank you for all the replys to my subject/topic/problem...and a small update. elliot is going in to school on thursday to see all his teachers,he will be the only kid in school because of a inservice day(unsure what the other countrys call this),no pupils teachers only. he has appointments to see all his teachers and get up to date work.and it seems he wil be working from home for the near future,the local ccouncil are in the process of supplying a home tutor. again thank you for all your kind replys,and gratefulfan,i never knew that fact lol. elliot still wont go out of the house alone,and only goes out when in the car,so he wont bump into anyone. i hope this is not going to be a long term problem?. |
| GratefulFan 06.02.2012 18:04 |
david (galashiels) wrote: and gratefulfan,i never knew that fact lol. Yes, it's totally true! They're white, usually, and roundish, and they do have a flushie thing. You can get them in Edinburgh I bet. :P |
| YourValentine 07.02.2012 09:08 |
David - why is your child excluded from school? Shouldn't the teachers protect him and enforce no-bully policies in the school? I find it outrageous that the victim has to stay at home and not the bullies! @GratefulFan - reading your post I probably have another idea of "bullying". In fact we had cases of students being ridiculed at times in front of the class room by stupid teachers but there was always the loyalty of the class - we knew who was the friend (student) and who was the enemy (teacher). Also, I was always picked last for team games because I was the smallest child in class but I never thought of that as bullying. I was small and therefore I was not an asset for a team, I did not take it personally. Actually, in high school we did not have many overweight kids - that happened after my school days. I think we are behind the USA and Canada in all things - good or bad :-) There was always favouritism and injustice but that comes with life and happens everywhere. In my childhood we simply had to put up with it. What I really never experienced in my school day was a group of children ganging up against singled out individuals. I only encountered that when my god daughter had this problem in school. Maybe it was because I grew up in a smaller town with no particular social problems. The worst disadvantage a child could have in my school was when they came from a village and did not speak the correct standard German that was required in high school. |
| GratefulFan 07.02.2012 11:26 |
YourValentine wrote: @GratefulFan - reading your post I probably have another idea of "bullying". In fact we had cases of students being ridiculed at times in front of the class room by stupid teachers but there was always the loyalty of the class - we knew who was the friend (student) and who was the enemy (teacher). Also, I was always picked last for team games because I was the smallest child in class but I never thought of that as bullying. I was small and therefore I was not an asset for a team, I did not take it personally. Actually, in high school we did not have many overweight kids - that happened after my school days. I think we are behind the USA and Canada in all things - good or bad :-) There was always favouritism and injustice but that comes with life and happens everywhere. In my childhood we simply had to put up with it. What I really never experienced in my school day was a group of children ganging up against singled out individuals. I only encountered that when my god daughter had this problem in school. Maybe it was because I grew up in a smaller town with no particular social problems. The worst disadvantage a child could have in my school was when they came from a village and did not speak the correct standard German that was required in high school. I think you probably have the right idea of bullying, and I just misunderstood your post. :) It sounded to me like you were describing an egalitarian utopia in the lush German countryside where nobody ever even had their feelings hurt, not ever, and certainly not by your teacher, Julie Andrews. LOL You're right I think that the really focused, targeted bullying was and is rarer. We agree too about situations where students were picked last for teams. While that dishonour could be used as a weapon in shifting campaigns of ostracism for whatever reason, it was often practical decision about skill and athleticism that some kids didn't possess in the same way. So when an overweight child had that experience there was a context that might have been uncomfortable, but there was truth and reason in it. In present day, schools here would not dream of allowing students to pick teams in gym class, because a new paradigm sees the kind of Darwinian schoolyard survival rules that we dealt with in the past as universally harmful. So now, if we continue to consider overweight children, they're still discriminated against as the world will do, but allowed very little context for it. I can't imagine that's an improvement. The zero tolerance approaches are a mixed blessing. While schools have progressive discipline policies that are designed to catch the most egregious cases and the repeat offenders, by too tightly controlling natural human interactions in times of stress or conflict they've also unwittingly pushed a lot of it out of the more focused environment of the school to fester and grow in the wild frontier of the internet and social media. Schools have been forced into modes that mean they have had to be become more focused on process and accountability than results on some fronts. In the case of David's son, it may be preferable to them to avoid liability for potential incidents in an overheated situation than it is to take on some risk and solve the problem for real with Elliot at school. Schools' fear of the wrath of hyperinvolved parents is certainly a new complication. The reason my Grade 7 teacher could be such a successful tyrant was because the expectation by parents was that we listened to our teachers, who were naturally always right. That teacher had a special spot in his dark little heart for breaking me, but he was just generally a mad man. He'd leave his desk drawers open for the express purpose of violently slamming them shut to punctuate his anger about whatever. It was like grenades all day. At least 3 or 4 times a day he'd express frustration at the smallest thing by whipping chalk, blackboard erasers, books, pens and on several occasions a metre stick (!) at us. We had those flip top desks, and we'd learned to duck and cover at the first noise. People would knock on the classroom door when it was shut and there would be paper flying everywhere as we reflexively tried to protect our heads. We were half way to being a room full of 12 year old PTSD sufferers. To imagine that happening today couldn't be more laughable or impossible. And that, I suppose, is an improvement. PS. Are you still small? If so, I would like to suggest that future impasses by resolved by height. I'm average at 5' 5 1/2". So I could say stuff like "As somebody 2 and a half inches taller than you, I'm right. " What do you think? Do you think that's a good idea? I say that's a good idea. I'm probably taller and you have to agree. |
| david (galashiels) 07.02.2012 17:57 |
elliot was not excluded,he was withdrawn from school for his own safety,he returned and was imediatly threatened by another child,so was withdrawn again. and all this time the bullys were allowed to return to school after a few days ,while ells suffers at home. there seems no end to this problem.but today i heard some good news. one of the bullys broke his ankle playing rugby,so a small part of justice is being served. |
| Donna13 07.02.2012 22:25 |
I was not aware of any serious bullying when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's. Except for one group of mean girls who for some unknown reason (they were about three years older than my little group that walked to school together) said that they were going to beat us up. We didn't even know them. It was scary and I think a couple of times we had to run for our lives, so to speak. But looking back I think maybe they just wanted to scare us. I never knew of any students getting physically harmed by other students other than icy snow balls or other types of teasing and horse play. Nothing that would produce blood or broken bones. My sister went to a rough school for a year and got along without any trouble by not making eye contact. She realized very early on that reacting in any way would only encourage the aggressive behavior. My parents made the decision to move us away from that school district. So I never had to deal with any unpleasantness of that nature. It is too much to ask of a kid to deal with criminals at school. The parents need to take over rather than assuming the school will do anything. I don't have kids so I don't have any experience but it seems like a matter for the police and also legal advice. And moving the kid to a safer school as soon as possible. Home school would also be an option if there is no better school available. Good luck with this terrible problem. |
| catqueen 10.02.2012 17:50 |
david (galashiels) wrote: elliot was not excluded,he was withdrawn from school for his own safety,he returned and was imediatly threatened by another child,so was withdrawn again. and all this time the bullys were allowed to return to school after a few days ,while ells suffers at home. there seems no end to this problem.but today i heard some good news. one of the bullys broke his ankle playing rugby,so a small part of justice is being served.Even still, the people making threats should have been kicked out :/ I agree, keep your child safe, but the school should discipline the bullies :( |
| Djdownsy 12.02.2012 10:52 |
When I was at school, I was bullied non- stop from senior infants right up to 6th year(that's 12 years) I didn't have any real friends, I had very low self esteem, I was an easy target. Anyway, one afternoon in 6th year, I was on the bus going home, when someone, for no reason, set my hair on fire. Suddenly, something snapped, and I went home, told my mother and we rang the bus company. The people involved were kicked off the bus for the rest of the year and were also suspended from school. Anyway, the reason I'm saying all this is because, it was that one moment, in my 12 years of being bullied, that I finally stood up to the bullies. It was the best thing that ever happened me. Maybe there's a silver lining in all this David, maybe this is the one thing that will make your son become a strong person. :) |