| Vali 09.08.2010 04:53 |
I already commented this on another thread but I think it deserves it's own space It all started here on saturday: link so, what do you tink ? Will they do it well this time ? Will we be getting something "new" at last? I still want to keep some hope... otherwhise it'll be a MAJOR LETDOWN. |
| Holly2003 09.08.2010 05:02 |
I think for many older fans this may be the 'last chance saloon' for Queen/Queen Productions to release something interesting and valuable. If they mess up this one, I think that may well be the end of my interest in the band. |
| pittrek 09.08.2010 06:28 |
And this is the official end... |
| rhyeking 09.08.2010 09:15 |
It looks promising, for sure, but frankly I'm not sure what fans are expecting here? We've really been quite spoiled as far as Queen releases go, when you look at what a lot of other bands do. Most are content with just re-issuing the albums, a few hits collections, and not much else. People like Springsteen have yet to even to a proper remastering of all the studio albums. Sure, The Beatles issued the Anthologies CDs, but contrary to popular belief, those weren't exactly complete. Ask any Beatles collector and he'll tell you there was a bunch of stuff left off. Elvis re-issues and special editions have been cutting, pasting, butchering and screwing up releases for a long time too. I can't speak to every bands' releases, but I can say a lot of bands I like haven't gone nearly as far as Queen have in issuing rare material over the years. We've been given, to name a few: 1985 - The Complete Works 1991/1992 - The remastered HR catalogue with bonus tracks and a whack of promo remixes/edits/versions 1992 - Box Of Trix 1992 - Karaoke Hits 1993 - The Queen Collection boxed set 1995 - Made In Heaven 1997 - No One But You 1998 - Queen: The eYe 1999 - Hits III 2002 - A Night At The Opera DVD-A 2003 - Live At Wembley Stadium 2003 - The Game DVD-A 2004 - Live At The Bowl 2005 - Q+PR Live Downloads 2005 - Return Of The Champions 2005 - ANATO 30th Ann. CD+DVD 2007 - Queen Rock Montreal 2008 - The Cosmos Rock 2008 - Q+PR Live Downloads 2008 - The Singles Collection Vol. 1 2009 - Live In Ukraine 2009 - The Singles Collection Vol. 2 2010 - The Singles Collection Vol. 3 To sum up, they're put out NEW material, older concerts, 5.1 surround mixes, remixes, new concerts and live tracks, and a bunch of other stuff (and that's not even including the stuff I didn't list, like solo material). But since the so-called Queen Anthologies haven't materialized, the band have failed us and you're going to give up on them (Holly...looking at you here!)? Oh no, they put out a few releases hardcore fans didn't care for (Singles Collections and some spuerfluous hits collections) and focused their energy on NEW recordings (Q+PR), so it's totally about time we abandon ship! They've fail us and are milking the fans. Unbelievable. |
| mike hunt 09.08.2010 09:22 |
Maybe they will do the Delux CD treatment Instead of the anthology. maybe release 2 or 3 CD's a year starting with Queen1 and so on......... with a bonus disc of rarities...... I know that was being discussed a while back. |
| Holly2003 09.08.2010 09:41 |
@rhyeking -- I'm not interested in re-release of old material in a new package e.g. singles box sets, but I would buy a properly remastered version of Queen 1, or even the albums re-released if there was a bonus cd with outtakes, demos etc. I was never a 'completist' and I won't buy just anything with the Queen name on it. The only thing that interests me now is what I've said above, and possibly DVD or audio releases of old concerts (Queen have done a reasonably good job of the DVD releases, albeit with some missed opportunities to include realy interesting extras). In short, I reserve the right to lose interest in a band if they don't release anything interesting! |
| cmsdrums 09.08.2010 09:48 |
I wonder if Greg Brooks is feeling a little peeved that the 'Official Archivist' is being overlooked for compiling and writing the first ever set of sleeve notes accompanying the entire studio catalogue , in favour of a comic actor from the tele? I know I would be! |
| mike hunt 09.08.2010 10:19 |
Holly2003 wrote: @rhyeking -- I'm not interested in re-release of old material in a new package e.g. singles box sets, but I would buy a properly remastered version of Queen 1, or even the albums re-released if there was a bonus cd with outtakes, demos etc. I was never a 'completist' and I won't buy just anything with the Queen name on it. The only thing that interests me now is what I've said above, and possibly DVD or audio releases of old concerts (Queen have done a reasonably good job of the DVD releases, albeit with some missed opportunities to include realy interesting extras). In short, I reserve the right to lose interest in a band if they don't release anything interesting! We don't agree on everything, but i'm with you on this one. the only new Queen releases i'll buy is the anthologies, it could be the original albums remastered plus the bonus rarities or one big boxset. Doesn't matter which way they do it....... A 70's concert of course would peak my interest. A few of their albums could use a remaster.....Queen1 of course. Jazz........Innuendo....three great albums that would benefit the most. |
| rhyeking 09.08.2010 10:33 |
As I've noted in a previous thread, I think a lot of fans are going to be disappointed with whatever demos and outtakes get issued. Based on what has been leaked, played at Cons, mentioned by the band and GB, here's what I think we're likely to see come out officially: - early stage recordings of existing songs, mostly incomplete - some short, incomplete, unheard ideas - some variations on previously leaked unreleased material - the odd in-studio jam - a handful of genuine curiousities - The BBC recordings - live material What we aren't going to see: - lots of completed (or even nearly completed), unreleased songs (there are likely a few from the early days, but I doubt there are many after that which we haven't already accounted for) - An album's worth of awesome, "I can't believe this never got released" material from over the years If we're lucky: - a couple of bona fide gems Personally, I think the well of gems has been tapped, between things like "Mad The Swine," "KYA Long Lost Re-take" and the various leaked early stuff ("Polar Bear," "Silver Salmon"). Don't get me wrong, I'm as interested as the next person to hear demos and outtakes, but I'm pretty certain it's going to be mostly variations of songs we know (like the leaked Hot Space demos, all of which, except "Feel Like," are pretty much close to the completed versions). However, demos only interest me to a point. And what are we going to do if and when these Anthologies are issued? What will be left? Plenty of concerts, but they'll reach a point when there's a concert for each tour available. Then what? The answer is what the band have been doing since 1995 (in the post-Freddie era): record and release NEW material, be it as Queen or solo work. For me, that's the interesting stuff! |
| mike hunt 09.08.2010 10:56 |
Not Interested in new material that much.....didn't like TCR or the blinking eye....their past it.....All Dried up. It would be neat if roger and brian finish some of these rare songs......Dog with a bone, I think we're falling out, and those type of things. |
| rhyeking 09.08.2010 11:40 |
I disagree that they're "past it" and "all dried up." For me, they're still doing a lot of interesting things and I look forward to Roger's next solo album. Not everything they do grabs me immediately, but I find that which didn't ages well for me and I appreciate it more when I get past my initial expectations and reactions. I'm not the same person I was when I first got into Queen and music in general, and they aren't the same artists as they were in 1970; they're in a different place, but just as rewarding (for me, anyway). |
| Benn 09.08.2010 11:59 |
At the end of the day, what we all want is Queen's music given the VERY BEST POSSIBLE representation. The band prided itself on the quality of it's music, it's presentation and it's appeal to their fans. Recent years have seen a sharp decline in those measurables and THIS is the chance to put that right. Universal has the "Deluxe" format available to produce something genuinely stunning on behalf of Queen. We all know that it can be done and there are plenty of yardsticks by which Universal can measure Queen's output on their label. Whether this happens or not will be soley down to QPL and what they have agreed to in the contract with Universal and also the quality of the material they allow Universal access to under that contract. It's exciting to think that we could be given the very best re-issues from ANY band's catalogue, however, we all have past history by which to judge QPL's input in to projects like this and the jury is certainly out until we have tracklists at the very least. |
| rhyeking 09.08.2010 12:40 |
Benn wrote: "The band prided itself on the quality of it's music, it's presentation and it's appeal to their fans. Recent years have seen a sharp decline in those measurables and THIS is the chance to put that right." You neglect to mention that the band took risks in spite of what appealed to fans, boldly and unapologetically moving in musical directions which were sometimes commercial successes and sometimes not. Every new direction made some fans lose interest and gained other fans. I'd also disagree that there has been a decline, sharp or otherwise, simply because hardcore fans aren't being catered to. We were all casual fans at one point and certain releases are marketed to them. They can't preach to the converted all the time. The only real issue I have with something like The Singles boxes is that they do not contain enough unique versions for a set which you would think only hardcore fans would invest $100 in. |
| mike hunt 09.08.2010 13:12 |
Benn wrote: At the end of the day, what we all want is Queen's music given the VERY BEST POSSIBLE representation. The band prided itself on the quality of it's music, it's presentation and it's appeal to their fans. Recent years have seen a sharp decline in those measurables and THIS is the chance to put that right. Universal has the "Deluxe" format available to produce something genuinely stunning on behalf of Queen. We all know that it can be done and there are plenty of yardsticks by which Universal can measure Queen's output on their label. Whether this happens or not will be soley down to QPL and what they have agreed to in the contract with Universal and also the quality of the material they allow Universal access to under that contract. It's exciting to think that we could be given the very best re-issues from ANY band's catalogue, however, we all have past history by which to judge QPL's input in to projects like this and the jury is certainly out until we have tracklists at the very least. I agree benn.....i'm actually pretty excited and curious about these remasters. Will they get this right?......2011 is only 5 short months away, so we'll hear something about track listings by the new year, or soon after. I have a feeling 2011 is gonna be a good year for Queen fans......Or they're gonna wait until the 50th Anniversary to do something special?.............. lol. |
| Back2TheLight 10.08.2010 02:33 |
If the remasters sound anything like what they did for the eYe remixes, I think it will sound fantastic. I just put alot of that stuff on CD in my car, and it just absolutely blows my mind how mammoth those remixes are. I don't know who did those mixes, but maybe that's who they should have in charge of doing the remasters. Make the songs we all fell in love with back in the day just absolutely sound mammoth! Especially things like Innuendo and The Miracle which can really benefit from some TLC. That is something I would be happy to go and buy. Ilisten to the Breakthru remix from The eYe, and it just sounds phenominal! |
| cmsdrums 10.08.2010 05:44 |
bambams-paradise wrote: If the remasters sound anything like what they did for the eYe remixes, I think it will sound fantastic. I just put alot of that stuff on CD in my car, and it just absolutely blows my mind how mammoth those remixes are. I don't know who did those mixes, but maybe that's who they should have in charge of doing the remasters. Make the songs we all fell in love with back in the day just absolutely sound mammoth! Especially things like Innuendo and The Miracle which can really benefit from some TLC. That is something I would be happy to go and buy. Ilisten to the Breakthru remix from The eYe, and it just sounds phenominal! Whilst the Eye remixes are interesting and great to listen to, I don't think there is anything special in how they are mastered from a sonic point of view. Are you confusing mixing/remixing with mastering? |
| zephead2112 10.08.2010 09:53 |
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a product that includes un-released material from the vaults and I will be bitterly disappointed if that doesn't happen (Hammy 79 pleeeeeeeeease.....!) However, I must say that, based on their tremendous back catalogue alone, how could you possibly "lose interest" in Queen? Being frustrated is one thing but dismissing them for good (as the comment infers) is a different kettle of fish. I'm know that I'm one of the older Queen fans here (first being 'attracted' to the band in 1974 when SSOR was released) but I never have and never will lose interest in the band, simply because their musical legacy is just too damn good to ignore. I guess it's just a design defect of human nature; no matter what treasures they already have, people will always want more. |
| The Real Wizard 10.08.2010 11:36 |
cmsdrums wrote:
Whilst the Eye remixes are interesting and great to listen to, I don't think there is anything special in how they are mastered from a sonic point of view. Are you confusing mixing/remixing with mastering?Have a listen to the attached file - Capitol Records vs. The Eye. To me there's absolutely no comparison. Listen to the difference in the mastering. |
| The Real Wizard 10.08.2010 11:37 |
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| Negative Creep 10.08.2010 11:51 |
The tracks on The Eye are completely new remixes. The whole back catalogue could do with being re-mixed - just merely re-creating the old mixes without the unncessary analogue compression fresh from the multitracks would do it wonders. |
| Vali 10.08.2010 12:34 |
rhyeking wrote: It looks promising, for sure, but frankly I'm not sure what fans are expecting here? +++++ hi rhyeking .... I see we live in oposite worlds here We've really been quite spoiled as far as Queen releases go, when you look at what a lot of other bands do. Most are content with just re-issuing the albums, a few hits collections, and not much else. People like Springsteen have yet to even to a proper remastering of all the studio albums. ++++++ not the best example .... Ask Bruce's fans if they'd prefered having a proper remaster of every studio album instead of the 4-disc Tracks Boxset, the Born To Run Boxset (wich included the album remastered) or the forthcoming Darkness On The Edge Of Town Boxset (wich will include the album remastered). Now let's do the same question to Queen fans ... there'll be exceptions, I see, but I guess the winner option would be ... I can't speak to every bands' releases, but I can say a lot of bands I like haven't gone nearly as far as Queen have in issuing rare material over the years. We've been given, to name a few: +++++++ our conception of the word "rare" differs .... 1985 - The Complete Works ok, in 1985 they were going the right way with the inclusion of the b-sides album there. 1991/1992 - The remastered HR catalogue with bonus tracks and a whack of promo remixes/edits/versions only released in the USA. The import costs for an EU citizen in 1992 weren't friendly. From all those ealbums I'll save: Mad The Swine KYA long-lost retake See what A Fool I've Been Fat Bottomed Girls remix I Go Crazy Scandal (extended version) The rest, at least to me, is pure crap (SSOR remix anyone?). The rule for wich they didn't include A Human Body, Soul Brother or The Miracle b-sides is still a mistery 1992 - Box Of Trix So limited and price-unfriendly ... Yes, very rare. 1992 - Karaoke Hits Only released in Japan (and Korea?). Instrumental versions. Nice ? yes. Rare. No. 1993 - The Queen Collection boxed set limited; price unfriendly. Nothing rare in there 1995 - Made In Heaven nothing rare. It was released as the final studio album. It was a labour of love and we all thank Brian , John and Roger. 1997 - No One But You one new song. Nothing rare there. Thankyou again Brian, Roger and ... bye bye John. 1998 - Queen: The eYe instrumental edits + an extremely difficult game to play. I enjoy listening to the cd's, but there's nothing rare. 1999 - Hits III Yes very rare. The inclusion of that hip-hop AOBTD and Driven By You makes it extremely rare. 2002 - A Night At The Opera DVD-A That made me happy and wanting for more. 2003 - Live At Wembley Stadium rare ? no 2003 - The Game DVD-A that made me happy ... and waiting for more. In 2010 you can find more than 2 albums from any band in 5.1 sound 2004 - Live At The Bowl rare ? no 2005 - Q+PR Live Downloads crappy mp3. Go check livemetallica.com 2005 - Return Of The Champions rare? something had to be released, isn't it ? I enjoyed the DVD extras so much. 2005 - ANATO 30th Ann. CD+DVD great remaster, crappy bonus content. If only the ANATO making of documentary had been attached .. that would have made a decent release. 2007 - Queen Rock Montreal rare? no 2008 - The Cosmos Rocks rare ? no. I liked it. A new studio album from two of my heores. Thankyou ! ah ! the lack of promotion made it indeed very rare 2008 - Q+PR Live Downloads take a look again at livemetallica.com in case you can't believe yet how it could have been done 2008 - The Singles Collection Vol. 1 aka The ruined Singles collection. Nor the joe public nor the hardcore fans are buying it. 2009 - Live In Ukraine the crappiest show election ever. You enjoy watching 350.000 people? not me. I'd prefer watching 30.000 argentinos and a better setlist 2009 - The Singles Collection Vol. 2 2010 - The Singles Collection Vol. 3 idem as Vol. 1 To sum up, they're put out NEW material, older concerts, 5.1 surround mixes, remixes, new concerts and live tracks, and a bunch of other stuff (and that's not even including the stuff I didn't list, like solo material). But since the so-called Queen Anthologies haven't materialized, the band have failed us and you're going to give up on them (Holly...looking at you here!)? +++++++ ok you can look at me , too. Why on earth did they announce the anthologies back in year 2000 ? why on earth did they announce the BBC sessions back in 1995 ? Oh no, they put out a few releases hardcore fans didn't care for (Singles Collections and some spuerfluous hits collections) and focused their energy on NEW recordings (Q+PR), so it's totally about time we abandon ship! They've fail us and are milking the fans. +++++++ we should precise your words here: they put out a few releases we don't care, a bunch of hits release we don't care, they worked with Five, Robbie Williams, Britney Spears, Beyonce, Pink and even the fucking Muppets and focused their energy on ONE NEW RECORDING (singular). Unbelievable. ++++++ not. Not that much. I guess some thousands agree with me. Just go and check any Youtube video of any Queen rarity and you'll always read a comment from some Joe guy going like: "hey! when will they release a boxset with rarities?". That's what people wants ! If you're happy with Universal releasing all the studio albums remastered without any extra content, that's ok. I respect your opinion. But I'm happy with Springsteen giving the fans what they really want and, from time to time, remastering one of his key albums. For God's sake, even Depeche Mode and The Cure are doing it ! not to name Genesis, Neil Young, Dylan, the Stones, Bowie ... anyway, mate, we think totally different on this matter and nothing's gonna change our minds ... but I'm really enjoying your alternate Jazz tracklisting ;) cheers Vali |
| Vali 10.08.2010 12:36 |
sorry double post |
| jozef 10.08.2010 13:05 |
Vali - I absolutely agree with you ... |
| Holly2003 10.08.2010 13:13 |
zephead2112 wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a product that includes un-released material from the vaults and I will be bitterly disappointed if that doesn't happen (Hammy 79 pleeeeeeeeease.....!) However, I must say that, based on their tremendous back catalogue alone, how could you possibly "lose interest" in Queen? Being frustrated is one thing but dismissing them for good (as the comment infers) is a different kettle of fish. I'm know that I'm one of the older Queen fans here (first being 'attracted' to the band in 1974 when SSOR was released) but I never have and never will lose interest in the band, simply because their musical legacy is just too damn good to ignore. I guess it's just a design defect of human nature; no matter what treasures they already have, people will always want more. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess that's addressed to me. Mostly I'm talking about new releases -- I've bought very little Queen stuff in the last 15 years, mostly becasue it's been a series of re-releases with little 'new' or interesting. (I've mentioned what I like already, no need to repeat it). If they produce interesting releases, I'll buy them. As for the old catalogue, it's great, of course, but I find myself listening to it less and less these days. Plus some albums I'm not keen on anyway, i.e. almost everything after The Game. Unless you;re going to try to convince me that Hot Space, The Works or AKOM stand the test of time and are still worth listening to over and over. Hardly. Brian is more interested in other matters instead of music these days. I'm not interested in what he's interested in -- that doesn't make me 'greedy' as you are suggesting, just human. Roger is capable of doing interesting stuff, but we'll have to wait to see how the Foo Fighters thing pans out. John has retired. Fred is gone. My interest is fading. ps I'll just add one thing to this, the best thing I;ve heard from Queen in the last decade is the unofficial Brighton Rock multitracks -- what does that say about Queen releases recently? |
| The Real Wizard 10.08.2010 13:17 |
100% agree with Vali and Holly. While there have been some great releases in the last 10 years, the quality and quantity of the releases of the back catalogue and rarities pales in comparison to most other major bands. |
| Benn Kempster 10.08.2010 13:43 |
With regard to what's been released since Fred's death. Let's be brutal here. What, out of everything that has been released so far, has actually had anyone sit there and go "Wow!" on listening or watching? For me, I can honestly say that only the MK '82 release has in terms of the sound quality. I'd had the audio boot for a LONG time (as we all did) so none of the material was new but the sound was something to behold. Absolutely nothing else has really captivated me in any way at all. All of the material we've been "treated to" has been available elsewhere either officially or unofficially in various guises. I can'tsee anyone being excited about any of the singles boxes or the fact that they could re-jig a live set list and purport it to be unedited (Montreal) and expect people to be happy with that. This is a chance to make us all thrilled to bits to be Queen fans. Let's hope they don't fuck it up. |
| Bad Seed 10.08.2010 14:34 |
I must say I am getting incredibly fed up with Queen. The lack of interesting product is becoming beyond the joke! After many years of blaming Jim Beach (who I'm sure is not guilt free), I'm starting to believe that its Brian who is the problem. We all know that he is a perfectionist, and since Freddie has gone seems to have turned into a control freak. He is also terribly insecure. This is one of the reasons we dont get any live releases which dont have multi-tracks. And its not because they cant do a 5.1, its because May cant overdub his fuck-up's! Brian May is my favourite guitarist bar none, but the fact is he can't get through a live show without fucking something up (correct me if im wrong)? I'd put money on it that the reason Hammy '79 wont be released is because he can't re do the Save Me solo. And because its one of his songs, he won't release the show without that song. Vali mentioned the Metallica stuff. The reason Queen+PR will have done it this way (individual songs as opposed to full shows) is because BM will have wanted only the tracks that turned out perfectly. I've no doubt it will be the same with pretty much everything else in the vaults. If its not perfect in his opinion, or if mistakes can't be rectified, they will never see the light of day. |
| cmi 10.08.2010 14:51 |
Vali wrote: 2004 - Live At The Bowl rare ? no I think anyone of us even didn't know or remember the complete setlist of the gig before it was released. So when it was released in complete form it was revelation! As for the subject: I think Universal is the proper company to release Deluxe editions. I think there must be 3 different editions for each album: 1) cd (album) 2) cd (album) + cd (extras) 3) cd (album) + cd (extras) + dvd (video of the period) And it'll be fantastic if we'll receive whole cd of extras and dvd of tv apps, original aspect ratio videos and possibly live clips or some interviews. I hope it'll be not just a dream... |
| marvinp01 10.08.2010 17:47 |
To keep us Queen fans busy, I think Greg and his minions get to work on transferring Brian's tape archive of Queen shows to lossless digital audio albums and have them for purchase and download on queenonline.com. What do you think??? |
| rhyeking 10.08.2010 18:54 |
Hi Vali :-) I said a few other things you neglected to reproduce in your reply to my post, such as what we're likely to see and not see in the way of demos and also that I feel most or all of the genuine treasures have been mined already. It's a pity the Hollywood Records bonus tracks were exclusive to North America and not the world and that various tracks weren't included. I agree 100% that all the non-album b-sides ought to have been accounted for before the 1991 remixes and the Original Extended Versions. That said, given that HR could very well have given us nothing, I'll take what they offered, most of which I like or appreciate. As I've noted repeatedly, Hollywood Records should be commended for their massive promotion of the band in North America. Dozens of promos were issued and they were a big part of getting Queen back on the airwaves (though Freddie dying and Wayne's World helped too. When the news of Freddie's passing hit, radio DJs had a great stack of promos to reach for). It's perverse that people hate Hollywood Records because of the remixes, when the remixes were a genuine effort to advance listenership of the band in the States. After The Game, Queen were pretty much forgotten here. Hollywood R invested time and money in turning that right around and they succeed! They were not trying to tarnish the band's legacy, but to expand it. I guess it's easier to hate them for the remixes than to see that they were trying to help and gave you something you didn't like. Also, I'm well aware of the definition of rare. If you read my post entirely, instead of picking and choosing what to reply to, you'd see the argument I was making was that in addition to all the non-album tracks, alternate versions, promos and remasters, Queen have put out NEW stuff as well. The list was qualifing NEW releases, not just "rarities" and old stuff. And Vali, just because you're not interested in a release, a song or a version does not immediately disqualify it from inclusion in the Queen canon of output. I ask you, if the Wyclef Remix of "Another One Bites The Dust" got just one new fan into the band, was it worth it? My answer is "Yes." We were all new fans once, never forget that. New fans can grow into seasoned fans, but they have to have a place to start. Promoting what is a new release, whether it's older material or new, will cycle newbies into the fold. North America, unlike the rest of the world, is consumer-driven hell. The reason there are so many Hits and Best Of Queen collections here is because the public has the attention span of fish. But they sell and they do their job. They get new fans in, which is a good thing. Lastly, and this is important, I said I'm interested in whatever demos and outtakes these Universal releases contain, just like you. I also said I'm more interested in NEW material. I dread the day Queen and Brian and Roger stop releasing new things. What do you do then, when all the old studio rarities are out and there's nothing left in the vaults and nothing new on the horizon? |
| rhyeking 10.08.2010 20:18 |
Speaking of Springsteen, I think he's a perfect example of what Queen is not. The Boss had a crapload of unreleased songs, more or less complete, some unheard, some works-in-progress and others alternate recordings of existing songs. All evidence points to Queen having nowhere near that kind of depth in their vault. What we're likely to see will be similar to the FM Solo Collection: early stage recordings of existing songs and the odd incomplete, abandoned idea. Besides what has been leaked, I doubt there are too many things we'd call "unreleased songs". Karaoke Mixes and The eYe instrumentals are much more fascinating to me than demos of songs I already know (unless the demo goes off into uncharted territory). The backing tracks are so tight and so densely layered that there is a lot we don't hear in the regular mix. I feel the same way about the more effective remixes. To be clear: I like some of them, am cool with others and think some aren't so good. On the subject of the new material, I totally understand that not everyone is a fan of the Queen+ projects, but there are some gems buried among the bunch. It's not all Britney Spears and Beyonce and Wyclef retreads. And those kept Brian and Roger working, which is important. Much the way Hot Space, though recieving mixed reviews, allowed the band to stay together and keep working, giving us even greater work on subsequent albums. I know I'm not going to convince those fans who hate everything released after Freddie died, but I might open a few eyes to the fact that Queen did not die with Freddie and are still putting out a good amount of high-quality material. As Luke Skywalker said to Darth Vader: "Let go of your hate!" |
| Benn Kempster 11.08.2010 05:16 |
You know what, rhyeking is an absolute breath of fresh air on here - a wonderfull "glass half full" attitude towards the band that I just wish I could go with. That said, Springsteen was a much more prolific artist in every way than Queen ever were; he worked far harder at getting himself out there in terms of gigging than Queen did and, throughout his career, recorded what he wrote at pretty much every opportunity and recorded different, surprising variations on a theme in many cases. I'll agree that some of the "variations" and some of what is on the "Tracks" box really isn't great. However, if you can get hold of the complete 17 volume "Lost Masters" bootleg set, it's absolutely stunning to see Springsteen's creative processes at work and some of the material that we left off of the final albums was a complete travesty. In that way, too, some of the material that The Who rejected from the eventual "Who's Next" album was, unarguably, more important than what did get released - relegating some STUNNING material to single b-sides. Queen didn't feel that they needed to do that, presumably, as they either didn't have the breadth of original material available to them or they simply didn't enjoy the studio experience as much as Springsteen did. That said, Springsteen was ALWAYS the boss of what he and the E-Street band did; when Bruce decided the band would rest, they rested, when he deccided that they would work, they worked. Queen was much more of a democratic act and, as a result, the majority verdict would, normally, win through. The "evidence" as to what is in the Queen archive with regard to un-released (complete) songs, out-takes, alternate versions, germs of ideas, rejected ideas and the member's demos for the band is pretty thin on the ground. Apart from what has leaked and available from Convention bootlegs, the only evidence has come from Greggy Boy in his over-blown Record Collector article from some time back. Even that only really confirmed what we already know. I find it hard to believe that there is such a paucity of unreleased session material - Queen, creatively, had two geniuses at work during their heyday 1973-1982. But, the only way we will ever really know what's out there os if we get a sudden change of tack and QPL give us a stunning archive release that is all-encompassing or they delliver a book that details exactly what is existant on the tape boxes. Judging from past evidence of the organisation's commitment to quality and the collector's market, my glass is, sadly, still less than half empty. |
| rhyeking 11.08.2010 09:50 |
I'm sure some of you received this newsletter update as well, but for those who didn't: From Jim Beach, "Many of you will have read bits and pieces on the internet about Queen leaving EMI and moving record companies. Although we are saying nothing official at this stage I felt that you should hear from us that it is true that Queen are leaving EMI after 39 years." "Next year we start working with our new record company to celebrate Queen’s 40th anniversary and we will be announcing full details of the plans over the next 3 months. As Brian has already said Queen’s next moves will involve ‘’studio work, computers and live work’’. " He doesn't go into any more detail, but instead the rest of the letter talks about his son's band. It does seem something is brewing, bit what that something is is anyone's guess. A remastered catalogue is the safest bet, but additional material? No way to tell from Jim's statements alone. Something else I'd love to see is the rest of the original studio albums issued in 5.1 Surround Mixes. I know I said that many of the bands I like don't give their back catalogue a lot of attention, and many don't...but some do. One artist, Mike Oldfield (of "Tubular Bells" fame), has recently been getting the rights back to his previous Virgin Records albums and has been remastering the original mixes and remixing them into 5.1 Surround. He then is re-issuing Deluxe Editions with 3 discs: Disc 1 CD New album stereo remaster + non-album rarities Disc 2 CD Original mix + demos Disc 3 DVD of the 5.1 Surround Mix + whatever videos were issued for period singles This would an excellent model for Queen to follow. Mike, being a perfection, is doing the remixing himself. For the new mixes, he's using the multitracks from the original tapes and is correcting minor mistakes and cleaning up the sound. This is why he's including the original mix, remastered, as well, with no further tinkering, so fans have their choice. His changes in the new mixes are not really noticable beyond the whole thing sounding clearer (and the 5.1 sounding downright stunning). As great as these are, there ARE non-album tracks which are left off, which is a bit frustrating, so it comes back to the fact that very few releases from any artist are perfect. These come really close, though. |
| pittrek 11.08.2010 10:06 |
+ Disc 4 - concert from that period, or compilation of various concerts from that era |
| Pim Derks 11.08.2010 10:46 |
I honestly cannot believe that if a recording of pre-Queen bands like Wreckage, The Reaction or 1984 exists (and some in very good quality) that the amount of unreleased material in the archives is only very small. Look at the Freddie box. The guy made 2 solo-albums, but they managed to fill a 10 discs boxset with material from those 2 albums. I'm sure there's an equal amount of Queen-stuff. If there are any complete, unreleased songs is of course another question. I think there'll be some jams and ideas, like Robbery, Yellow Breezes, New York etc - but I think the chances for a 90% complete, completely written song are pretty small. Anyway, I'm not only interested in new material. Maybe I'm even more interested in alternate versions, mixes or demos of songs we all know and love. Can you imagine turning on Innuendo with Roger doing some vocals? Or an instrumental version of March of the Black Queen? An acoustic demo of I'm In Love With My Car? I'd happily fork out a couple of hundred bucks to hear stuff like that :) |
| GinjaNinja 11.08.2010 11:14 |
What I'd like would be to hear straight instrumentals of the albums (not karaoke, just the instruments), as they let you appreciate more of the song and hear the little details clearly. I remember playing the Spread Your Wings instrumental, and noticing the fingerstyle acoustic guitar part for the first time. I'm sure there are many more small things that go unnoticed by a lot of us, and instrumentals would let us hear them. Who wouldn't want to hear complete instrumentals for Queen II or A Day At The Races? Most of their albums were around 40 minutes long, which leaves almost half of a disc free. Let's see them use that space up, be it with B-Sides, demos, Remixes/Extended versions or instrumental/acapella versions of songs. I think Pittrek's idea of a live compilation from that period would be excellent, featuring the best performances of songs from that era. |
| Vali 11.08.2010 11:15 |
Pim Derks wrote: I honestly cannot believe that if a recording of pre-Queen bands like Wreckage, The Reaction or 1984 exists (and some in very good quality) that the amount of unreleased material in the archives is only very small. Look at the Freddie box. The guy made 2 solo-albums, but they managed to fill a 10 discs boxset with material from those 2 albums. I'm sure there's an equal amount of Queen-stuff. If there are any complete, unreleased songs is of course another question. I think there'll be some jams and ideas, like Robbery, Yellow Breezes, New York etc - but I think the chances for a 90% complete, completely written song are pretty small. Anyway, I'm not only interested in new material. Maybe I'm even more interested in alternate versions, mixes or demos of songs we all know and love. Can you imagine turning on Innuendo with Roger doing some vocals? Or an instrumental version of March of the Black Queen? An acoustic demo of I'm In Love With My Car? I'd happily fork out a couple of hundred bucks to hear stuff like that :) *********** I've always thought exactly the same. If Freddie filled 10 cd's .... what could Queen fill ? I'm sure there will hardly be any unknown/unleaked complete song, but there must be tons of demos, alternative takes, unused mixes, etc etc .. and that's actually the stuff that interests me the most. 10 or 15 years ago I only wanted new/fresh material, I wanted Brian and Roger (and John) to keep working together and doing new music. The waiting resulted in TCR, wich I always say I like, but given the actual situation (Brian and his to be respected crusades/other interests) I see zero possibilities of getting a new studio album; yeah, we'll get hopefully something from Roger and Brian may be playing in a couple of tracks. And that's it. And as I'm more and more convinced about this fact, I'm also more convinced the stuff I'm really dying for is an instrumental "Black Queen" or "Sweet Sister" in a demo stage, Roger or Brian doing vocals in a take we never expected they could do, etc etc etc.. |
| rhyeking 11.08.2010 12:31 |
I love the FM Solo Collection. The tracks sound great and the book is stellar. However, as people are repeating "they got 10 cds out of 2 solo albums" as an amazing yardstick for what must surely lay undiscovered in Queen's vaults, here's a little break down of the "rarities" included: 5 discs fully contain previously available material, some of which is easy to find (Barcelona & The Great Pretender albums) and some of which is a bit harder to find (the Singles). 1 disc contains interviews. Interesting, but no actual music. 1 disc contains all instrumentals, one of which was previously available (The Golden Boy). I love this disc, but it IS a manufactured, NEW set of rarities (they're not long lost mixes or demos). 1 disc contains "Other sessions," where 4 songs were previously available, 1 is a remix (Love Kill - Rock Mix) and 1 is another manufactured rarity (Love Kills - Instrumental). Of the 8 remaining tracks 2 are genuine early-Freddie rarities and the other 6 are demos. 1 disc of Mr. Bad Guy session material: 3 songs are manufactured rarities (the Acapella and Vocal+Piano tracks) and 2 are unreleased single mixes (Foolin' Around 12" & Instrumental versions). 12 are early versions or outtakes of album tracks, 1 is an alternate version of a b-side track, and the remain 5 are demos of abandoned ideas 1 disc of Barcelona session material: 2 tracks are manufactured rarities ("Acapella" mixes of the album tracks), 3 are from the Garden Lodge Tape of Freddie and Co. messing around at home, the remaining 13 are genuine demos, outtakes and abandoned ideas. To sum up, the FM box gave us a lot, but for actual rare demos, outtakes, abandoned ideas and the like, we actually only find, at a stretch, 3 discs worth of this sort of material, most of which are variations of existing tracks. Basically, we find 1 disc of demos/outtakes for each album (including The Great Pretender). As I mentioned in prevous posts, I'm sure Queen could give us early-stage recordings for existings songs, the same way the FM box did, and maybe some abandoned ideas, but probably not much more. And like all of you, I still want to hear them. |
| Vali 11.08.2010 13:04 |
rhyeking wrote: To sum up, the FM box gave us a lot, but for actual rare demos, outtakes, abandoned ideas and the like, we actually only find, at a stretch, 3 discs worth of this sort of material, most of which are variations of existing tracks. Basically, we find 1 disc of demos/outtakes for each album (including The Great Pretender). +++++++ you're completely right there, rhyeking. We should only talk about 3 discs of "rarities" in the FM Collection. 2 FM studio albums = 3 discs of rarities 15 Queen studio albums = .... Come on mate ! shout it out loud with me: "RELEASE 'EM QPL !!! IT'S F***ING TIME !!!" :-D |
| rhyeking 11.08.2010 13:26 |
A little comparison shopping here via the Freddie Mercury Solo Collection boxed set and recent Queen releases: FM box Queen Notes Disc 1: Mr. Bad Guy (2000 Remaster) 2000 Digital Remaster Series albums both remastered by Peter Mew Disc 2: Barcelona (1992 Remaster) 1994 Digital Master Series Eddy Schulyer worked on both Disc 3: The Great Pretender 1999 Greatest Hits III both are collections of re-made (1992 Remaster) older tracks, remixes and singles Disc 4: The Singles 1973 - 1985 Singles Collection Vol. 1 both remastered by Peter Mew and are previously released tracks Disc 5: The Singles 1986 - 1993 Singles Collection Vol. 2 same as above Disc 6: Instrumentals The eYe & Karaoke Hits attractive for the instrumentals Disc 7: Mr. Bad Guy Rarities N/A Would be nice to hear some Queen demos, etc. Disc 8: Barcelona Rarities N/A same as above Disc 9: Other Sessions 1991 HR bonus tracks Previously Unreleased tracks, Extended Versions, non-album tracks and remixes Disc 10: Interviews Box Of Tricks, Disc 3: Queen Talks Interviews...not much else to Message From The Palace say Disc 11: DVD - Video Collection Greatest Video Hits Vol. 1 Videos...Still waiting on Vol. 3 Greatest Video Hits Vol. 2 Disc 12: DVD - The FM story VHS - The Magic Years Be nice to see TMY or COTW VHS - Champions Of The World on DVD someday DVD - Making Of ANATO Yeah, Queen's given us hardcore fans nothing interesting, have they? |
| rhyeking 11.08.2010 13:52 |
Vali wrote: rhyeking wrote: To sum up, the FM box gave us a lot, but for actual rare demos, outtakes, abandoned ideas and the like, we actually only find, at a stretch, 3 discs worth of this sort of material, most of which are variations of existing tracks. Basically, we find 1 disc of demos/outtakes for each album (including The Great Pretender). +++++++ you're completely right there, rhyeking. We should only talk about 3 discs of "rarities" in the FM Collection. 2 FM studio albums = 3 discs of rarities 15 Queen studio albums = .... Come on mate ! shout it out loud with me: "RELEASE 'EM QPL !!! IT'S F***ING TIME !!!" :-D +++++++++++ :-) That's what I said, that Queen could probably cobble together a disc of demos and outtakes (of existing songs) for each studio album. I also said I want these as much as the next person. Just don't expect much more than that. And not to split hairs, Vali, but I stick to my ratio of 1:1 (1 demo disc to 1 studio album), particularly with Freddie. Yes, I know he had only 2 issued in his life time and that The Great Pretender/The Freddie Mercury album was posthumous, but he was working on a solo album other than Barcelona and certainly had enough songs to put one together with even 2 more completed tracks. The Great Pretender Exercises In Free Love Time In My Defense Hold On Love Kills She Blows Hot And Cold Stop All The Fighting The FM box reflects this |
| Pim Derks 11.08.2010 16:10 |
I'd be very happy if they decided to fully remix every album (Jazz, Miracle, Innuendo anyone?) and added the following extras on a bonusdisc: Queen: BBC sessions + De Lane Lea + Mad The Swine Queen II: BBC session + See What A Fool I've Been + Rainbow March '74 Sheer Heart Attack: BBC Session + Rainbow '74 remixed ANATO: Hammersmith ADATR: Hyde Park NOTW: BBC session + Jazz: Hammersmith '79 (not Jazz tour but what the heck) The Game: Soul Brother, Human Body (single disc package) Flash: add some alternate mixes without samples from the movies (single disc package) Hot Space: Cool Cat with Bowie, Staying Power and Back Chat 12" mixes (single disc package) The Works: all 6 extended mixes + Thank God It's Christmas & I Go Crazy Kind of Magic: Blurred Vision + Dozen Red Roses + Original AKOM version from Highlander + extended version Miracle: Extended versions + b-sides Innuendo: The remix of ICLWY from Queen Rocks, Lost Opportunity (single disc package) Made In Heaven: haven't got a clue (single disc package). All in a deluxe digipack, with an extensive booklet containing quotes, pictures of sleeves and merchandisign from around the world, maybe an interview with a producer/bandmember/roadie. Maybe throw in a DVD with the videos, some live bits etc. |
| rhyeking 11.08.2010 18:21 |
Pim Derks wrote: I'd be very happy if they decided to fully remix every album (Jazz, Miracle, Innuendo anyone?) and added the following extras on a bonusdisc: Queen: BBC sessions + De Lane Lea + Mad The Swine Queen II: BBC session + See What A Fool I've Been + Rainbow March '74 Sheer Heart Attack: BBC Session + Rainbow '74 remixed ANATO: Hammersmith ADATR: Hyde Park NOTW: BBC session + Jazz: Hammersmith '79 (not Jazz tour but what the heck) The Game: Soul Brother, Human Body (single disc package) Flash: add some alternate mixes without samples from the movies (single disc package) Hot Space: Cool Cat with Bowie, Staying Power and Back Chat 12" mixes (single disc package) The Works: all 6 extended mixes + Thank God It's Christmas & I Go Crazy Kind of Magic: Blurred Vision + Dozen Red Roses + Original AKOM version from Highlander + extended version Miracle: Extended versions + b-sides Innuendo: The remix of ICLWY from Queen Rocks, Lost Opportunity (single disc package) Made In Heaven: haven't got a clue (single disc package). All in a deluxe digipack, with an extensive booklet containing quotes, pictures of sleeves and merchandisign from around the world, maybe an interview with a producer/bandmember/roadie. Maybe throw in a DVD with the videos, some live bits etc. +++++++++++++++++ Interesting list and I agree with pretty much all of it. Why put "Soul Brother" with The Game? It's a Hot Space-related track. |
| tcc 12.08.2010 00:23 |
Bad Seed wrote: I must say I am getting incredibly fed up with Queen. The lack of interesting product is becoming beyond the joke! After many years of blaming Jim Beach (who I'm sure is not guilt free), I'm starting to believe that its Brian who is the problem. We all know that he is a perfectionist, and since Freddie has gone seems to have turned into a control freak. He is also terribly insecure. This is one of the reasons we dont get any live releases which dont have multi-tracks. And its not because they cant do a 5.1, its because May cant overdub his fuck-up's! Brian May is my favourite guitarist bar none, but the fact is he can't get through a live show without fucking something up (correct me if im wrong)? I'd put money on it that the reason Hammy '79 wont be released is because he can't re do the Save Me solo. And because its one of his songs, he won't release the show without that song. Vali mentioned the Metallica stuff. The reason Queen+PR will have done it this way (individual songs as opposed to full shows) is because BM will have wanted only the tracks that turned out perfectly. I've no doubt it will be the same with pretty much everything else in the vaults. If its not perfect in his opinion, or if mistakes can't be rectified, they will never see the light of day. On the other hand, the Queen Live at the Bowl DVD was released showing Brian having problems with his guitar in the middle of the guitar solo. |
| Rien 12.08.2010 04:46 |
Earlier this year I asked Greg Brooks about the possibility of Queen releasing a 4-member-Queen song that is good enough to be a hit. Why, because Queen is the only band in the world that has had hit-singles (or number-one singles, not quite sure about that) in 4 decades. So to make that position unbeatable to others it would be great to have a Queen hitsingle in the decade 2010-2020. (I can't imagine other bands to produce 'new' music over a 50-year span with exeption of perhaps The Beatles and U2 - I'm no fan ot that last one) He confirmed that there is at least one song on the shelves that can make this happen. So... a great opportunity to commemorate Freddie's and Queen's genius in 2011, 20 years after his departure. Perhaps the move to Universal puts fuel to this smoldering desire to start a fire so the Queen Phoenix arises again... (I'll just keep on dreaming, if that's okay by you all) :-) |
| Pim Derks 12.08.2010 05:04 |
rhyeking wrote: Interesting list and I agree with pretty much all of it. Why put "Soul Brother" with The Game? It's a Hot Space-related track. No idea, I had in mind it was started in 1980... |
| smilebrian 13.08.2010 06:41 |
If Universal can somehow remove Brian, Roger and staff from the process, and do a Mobile Fidelity type job on remastering the studio back catalogue I'll be very happy (and for once, pleasantly surprised). Throw in some proper vinyl reissues (cut from analogue) and even some hi res download access and they can have all my dollars. I really couldn't care less about rare, unreleased, archived material. I listen to all that once or twice, pay the credit card bill and tuck the boxed sets away with the rest of them, only reaching for them when I move house. There is far more enjoyment to be had hearing extra detail, more natural drum sounds, clearer vocals, more defined bass notes etc from a wonderfully remastered studio album than you get from an outtake that wasn't good enough to make said album in the first place!!! Brian and staff will find a way to fuck up all the releases anyway, so it's a moot point. |
| Benn 13.08.2010 13:54 |
Re: >>If Universal can somehow remove Brian, Roger and staff from the process Best of luck with that one..... ;-) |
| rhyeking 13.08.2010 19:50 |
Reading some these posts makes one wonder if "fans" can ever be happy with anything that ever got released. No wonder Queen Productions ignores everyone here. |
| Benn Kempster 14.08.2010 05:25 |
Rhyeking, re: >>Reading some these posts makes one wonder if "fans" can ever be happy with anything that ever got released. No wonder Queen Productions ignores everyone here. You say that, and I'll be the first to admit that I'm more guilty than most, but the *EVIDENCE* is there for everyone and QPL themselves to see. The back catalogue has been mis-managed and there has been too great a reliance on re-issuing material will little or no heed paid to the sections of fans who already have Bohemian Rhapsody 20 times in their collections across various formats and releases. QPL know for a fact that a comprehensive rarities collection (in any format) would placate huge numbers of the moaning minority, but still they refuse to do anything about it, instead concentrating on re-issuing GH collections year on year. I'm really past caring what the fuck QPL do any more; if nothing else, they employ a buffoon as "Archivist" and allow him to bait the people without whom Queen would generate little interest in the wider music world. We've all invested a great deal of emotional time, energy and no little money in the band and simply request a little bit of pay-back. Virtually no one is interested any longer. |
| rhyeking 14.08.2010 10:11 |
Benn Kempster wrote: Rhyeking, re: >>Reading some these posts makes one wonder if "fans" can ever be happy with anything that ever got released. No wonder Queen Productions ignores everyone here. You say that, and I'll be the first to admit that I'm more guilty than most, but the *EVIDENCE* is there for everyone and QPL themselves to see. The back catalogue has been mis-managed and there has been too great a reliance on re-issuing material will little or no heed paid to the sections of fans who already have Bohemian Rhapsody 20 times in their collections across various formats and releases. QPL know for a fact that a comprehensive rarities collection (in any format) would placate huge numbers of the moaning minority, but still they refuse to do anything about it, instead concentrating on re-issuing GH collections year on year. I'm really past caring what the fuck QPL do any more; if nothing else, they employ a buffoon as "Archivist" and allow him to bait the people without whom Queen would generate little interest in the wider music world. We've all invested a great deal of emotional time, energy and no little money in the band and simply request a little bit of pay-back. Virtually no one is interested any longer. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Where to start...? Okay, first, I would love a rarities collection (demos, outtakes, whatever). It may happen. It may not. There's no way to know at this stage as Queen's priorities have shifted a few times over the last decade. Personally, I like the direction of new material, but I know many people don't. I don't know what else to tell you on this subject. Secondly, I disagree that the back catalogue has been mismanaged. There are currently multiple remasters available worldwide, from different territories, based on what that territory has under contract to Queen Productions. If, for instance, their Japanese record company decides to promote the band differently than in the UK or the US, that's their perogative. I don't know what dicretionary power QP has over such decisions, but they approve what is released because it IS promotion. Which brings me to my third point, that in North America Hollywood Records has been consistant and effective in promoting Queen. Their remasters are top-notch and their radio play ever present. There's bitching and crying over the many compilations they issue, but that is a result HR understanding that this continent is a consumer hell and the music buying public has the attention span of gold fish. Understand that HR is issuing these many releases for one reason, and it has nothing to do with us: To get new fans interested in Queen. Everytime Queen does something in the media spotlight, HR is prepared to back them with a collection, to capitalize on the burst of attention. Las Vegas version of We Will Rock You: The Musical is opening? Release a new edition of Greatest Hits! Queen are to appear on American Idol? Release a collection (Stone Cold Classics)! True story: A colleague of mine saw the Toronto production of WWRY and bought the GH:WWRY ed. in the lobby. Worldwide, a 3 disc Platinum Collection of hits is not casual- or new-fan-friendly, so whittle it down to 1 disc (Absolute Greatest). This promotion works, plain and simple. Then a certain number of casual fans grow into hardcore fans, buying the albums and other releases. I know what your going to say: What about us? The loyal fans who support this band! All we're ever treated to are things like: A Night At The Opera and The Game DVD-A A Night At The Opera 30th Ann. Ed. CD + DVD Greatest Video Hits 1 & 2 Live At The Bowl Queen Rock Montreal Live At Wembley And like it or not, the band has released NEW material for those not content to relive 1973. The Singles Collections are the only recent releases I sort of scratch my head about, as I feel they ought to contain more unique versions than they do if they are to appeal to the hardcore fans. |
| Holly2003 14.08.2010 15:23 |
... on the other hand it's been 36 years since the Rainbow show, 35 years since the Xmas Hammersmith show, 33 years since Houston or Earl's Court, 31 since the Kampuchea Hammersmith show ... and still no proper release of any of these great concerts. |
| rhyeking 14.08.2010 15:48 |
The Rainbow '74 (SHA Tour) concert did get released, though very limitedly, as part of the Box Of Trix. I'd love to see the full, unaltered concert released in a 5.1 mix. |
| The Real Wizard 14.08.2010 17:11 |
rhyeking wrote: "Secondly, I disagree that the back catalogue has been mismanaged." Multi-tracks have been lost - about half of News Of The World, a few other 70s songs, and allegedly the Concert For Kampuchea multis are missing too. Thus the buffoonery Benn alluded to. "Which brings me to my third point, that in North America Hollywood Records has been consistant and effective in promoting Queen." I strongly disagree. I didn't hear a peep about Made In Heaven nor The Cosmos Rocks in the media when they were released. They have promoted the hits, not the records. Queen are just about the only remaining major band whose archives have been left virtually untouched and unavailable to the public. But maybe they don't want to release studio demos and 70s concerts. Maybe Brian and Roger want the band to be remembered by the public for a dozen big hit songs and being fronted by the charismatic fellow with the moustache. It's largely in their hands, and they're entitled to that choice since it's their band... as much as the hardcore fans may not like it. But I certainly do sympathize with anyone who sees this as a problem. |
| rhyeking 14.08.2010 18:41 |
I heard plenty about both Made In Heaven and The Cosmos Rocks, particularly from my local rock stations. I still hear plenty of hits AND album tracks. Hell, every once in a while the one I listen to the most does a great series on live material and they play a mix of Queen songs from the different live releases. As for the multi-tracks, were they lost or stolen? Was it before Jim Beach began gathering all the masters from the many studios Queen recorded in? Should we not blame the douchebag "collectors" who walked away with this stuff? No, we blame the artist. That makes a lot of sense. For your information, artists have their work stolen sometimes. link And occasionally things get lost when handled by third-parties. Which is pretty much what every industy entails, a series of middle-men between the artist and the audience. And occassionally things get found, like the multi-tracks for King Crimson's "21st Century Schizoid Man," which were presumed lost for 30-odd years. Or the presumed lost Layla (And Other Love Songs) multi-tracks. And for some perspective, the original multi-tracks were, for a long time, largely ignored by artists and their management after the album master was created and copied and sent to record companies. It's only been in the last 20 years that the idea of RE-mastering the music from the source material was a priority. If you're to accuse Queen of mishandling their many, many old tapes, you have to throw pretty much every band and artist who recorded anything since 1967 onto that pile (possibly earlier). And really, all these gripes come across as somewhat hollow moanings of people who simply want what they don't have and can't appreciate what they've got. Face it, many of you appear not to care about anything but getting old demos, and anything released otherwise fuels your perception that you're being mistreated as a "fan." I have a shiney new nickel which says the next post will be exactly the sort of griping I've been talking about... |
| chromant 14.08.2010 19:09 |
I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY wish that Queen HP'd stop release anything, anymore. They SCREWED UP BIG TIME with every release & everything Queen related you could think of, since Freddie's death...not that when he was alive things were better. Basically we're waiting for a decent release of the all catalogue since the 90's!...let alone anything rare or unreleased. So please, Brian, Roger and John - STOP! and do yourself a favour...go and check The Deep Purple Appreciation Society and see what a dedicated archivist/record company/fan base can do... |
| Sheer Brass Neck 14.08.2010 20:13 |
Where do you live Rhyeking? I'm in Toronto, and nothing, and I mean nothing, from MIH or TCR is played on rock radio, and virtually no promotion for either. Of course they are by miles the worst albums in Queen's catalogue so I understand why, but still, no effort to promote at all form Hollywood Records/ |
| rhyeking 14.08.2010 21:30 |
I get, among other things, Q107. I forget which stations I was listening to in 1995, (I'm sure the Mighty Q was one of them) but I remember hearing "Too Much Love," "Heaven For Everyone" and "A Winter's Tale" a lot. Before the album came out it was quite well advertised on the radio and HMV downtown. This was all before the internet took off (all we had were BBSs, remember those?). The Cosmos Rocks got mentioned more than once on Q late at night (the only time I really got to listen, while reading in bed) Sometimes I tune in in the morning to hear Derringer and I admit, he never said anything about it, but I was listening infrequently at that time of day. I guess TCR could have used a lot more promotion in North America, if that's any indication. |
| Holly2003 15.08.2010 03:34 |
rhyeking wrote: The Rainbow '74 (SHA Tour) concert did get released, though very limitedly, as part of the Box Of Trix. I'd love to see the full, unaltered concert released in a 5.1 mix. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's why I said "still no proper release" ... |
| smilebrian 15.08.2010 06:20 |
rhyeking, I strongly disagree that HR's remasters are "top notch". The '91 CD's are absolutely woeful. Ditto, the 2009 vinyl cut from badly remastered digital. Not that EMI have done much better. |
| GinjaNinja 15.08.2010 13:54 |
It is a real shame that some of the Multitrack masters are missing, 10 in all as far as I know, though some may have been recovered. They are also missing the original stereo masters to "Queen" and "Flash Gordon". |
| rhyeking 15.08.2010 15:06 |
Holly2003 wrote: rhyeking wrote: The Rainbow '74 (SHA Tour) concert did get released, though very limitedly, as part of the Box Of Trix. I'd love to see the full, unaltered concert released in a 5.1 mix. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's why I said "still no proper release" ... +++++++++++++++++++++++ And that's why I said "very limitedly" and that I'd love to see the full concert someday. I wasn't disagreeing with you, Holly. Re: Remasters As discussed in "The Best Remasters, Track by Track," the 1991 HR remasters were compared against the other remasters, such as the 1994 Digital Master Series (UK) and the 2001 Digital Remasters (Japan) and consistantly came up with top marks. There are some that are better, such as the Mobile Sound Fidelity Lad Editions, which only cover four albums, but the rest are either highly compressed and/or favour the high-end and low-end frequencies. Peter Mew, whom I took the time to email, even said that the Japanese remasters he did were specifically required by the record company to be much more intense. The result is that they are not as well balance as others. |
| Negative Creep 15.08.2010 15:21 |
Peter Mew is renowned for his over use of noise reduction and mostly works at Abbey Road I believe - he's considered by many to be one of the worst remastering engineers out there. Hopefully the new remasters will be done by someone like Bob Ludwig or Steve Hoffman. And I wish they'd let someone else do a new transfer of the tapes, but I'm sure whoever they use will only be given the existing digital transfers to work with. |
| rhyeking 15.08.2010 19:24 |
Whether Peter is the best or worst I can not comment on. All I know is that he was the first to admit his 2001 remasters were ramped right up, because that's what he was told to do by the record company. He felt the 1998s (Crown Jewels set) were more balanced by his terms. He didn't work on the 1991 HR remasters, which when compared against the later remasters, Mew's included, sound way better to my ear. |
| Benn 16.08.2010 15:37 |
All this is leading to is a realisation that what needs to (MUST) happen is that the very best QUEEN minds / ears are allowed to work on the project in order for re-mixing (should that actually be required), re-mastering and production of the original masters to be done to the highest standard. Is it too odd a suggestion to say that Brian, Roger and John are not able to be objective enough to be involved and this should be handed over to outside parties for it to be done properly? |
| Holly2003 16.08.2010 15:56 |
I think the best people to do Queen 1 are Brian, Roger and John. Only they know what they wanted Queen 1 to sound like, but couldn;t make it happen due to the limits imposed on them by Trident. I'm not convinced any of the other albums need any radical remastering by anyone, as they are the way the artists wanted it at the time. |
| rhyeking 16.08.2010 17:42 |
Benn wrote: All this is leading to is a realisation that what needs to (MUST) happen is that the very best QUEEN minds / ears are allowed to work on the project in order for re-mixing (should that actually be required), re-mastering and production of the original masters to be done to the highest standard. Is it too odd a suggestion to say that Brian, Roger and John are not able to be objective enough to be involved and this should be handed over to outside parties for it to be done properly? +++++++++++++++++++++++++ It's a sticky area, suggesting the creator of the work is not objective enough to present it in it's highest standard. As the artist, their word should be taken as law: This is how we want it and this is how it should be! However, the MEDIUM adds certain levels of complication to the process. It's been nearly 40 years since some of these releases have been issued and technology has advance considerably. Added to that, we know the band did not create the original masters by themselves, there were engineers and producers involved after the band approved the final mixes. There is no primary producer who the band worked with most of their career, like Beatles had George Martin. They used Roy Baker, Mack and David Richards, and co-produced themselves. So, who do you put in charge? My best guess would be David Richards, who could produce the remastering, supervising whichever engineers could do it best. |
| joesilvey 17.08.2010 00:33 |
so much to address... but the main issues I want to comment on: Brian and Roger are not nostalgic... Brian has said he believes Bob Ludwig's HEAVILY compressed Absolute Greatest remasters to be the best sounding versions of their catalog hits to date. To me, as someone with experience and knowledge in recorded sound, that says he's not going to revisit Queen I or any of their past work and try to "preserve" it as it was intentionally created or as it originally sounded. The MFSL releases, of the original masters, are STUNNING - and they feature no noise reduction, no compression, and no volume limiting. I have personally analyzed the waveforms (lossless rips) and can attest they are truly the original masters with a broad dynamic range. That being said, i agree with Rhyeking and others here who have said, from a marketing perspective, Queen's fanbase is a bit segregated. Some know only WWRY, BoRhap, etc. and LIKE the songs, but have no intention of buying even a 2-cd set of hits that's over $15. You have to offer general market products, and they have to be mastered DIFFERENTLY to stand up to over-compressed music of the last decade on every kid's iPod. Clearly AG met that need. I honestly don't know Peter Mew's other remastering work.... but i've looked quite closely over the past months at his QUEEN work from the past 12 years. I would consider myself an aural snob... i can tell you whether a remaster is simply bathed in compression or if it was done with care. And I will go on record here to say PM, in my opinion, is more of a remastering artist than Bob Ludwig or many others who seek a fomulaic end-result. I LOATHE the muffled results of over-using noise reduction. I do NOT prefer the neck-high water sensation of actively-compressed FM-radio masters of today. But in a perfect world, recorded music doesn't sound right without some adjustments being made. Mastering is an art, and it takes a master. Does everyone love PIcasso or Monet? no... Rhye - to your point about the Singles Collections - i agree they are sort of a miss, both for hardcore fans and casual fans... i think that was a bit of a self-indulgent venture. I think they're unique, fun, and sound GREAT... but very cost-prohibitive to most. ultimately, i desire what i think all of us here do... some kind of attention to detail. Certainly Queen Productions can appreciate that the mentality that has fueled this band for nearly 40 years - one of perfectionism, among other things - is very much what the fans expect in preservation of the vintage material for us now and in years to come... |
| cmsdrums 17.08.2010 02:54 |
GinjaNinja wrote: They are also missing the original stereo masters to .............."Flash Gordon". Mmmm - not quite sure how much sleep I'm going to lose over that!!! :-) |
| Kingswife 17.08.2010 03:14 |
Just my thoughts concerning the talent of Peter Mew. He did a great Job on the recent re-issue of Stormbringer by Deep Purple (1975), released in 2009. If the work on the Queen-Material is done like that, the new releases could be very promissing. |
| GinjaNinja 17.08.2010 06:49 |
cmsdrums wrote: GinjaNinja wrote: They are also missing the original stereo masters to .............."Flash Gordon". Mmmm - not quite sure how much sleep I'm going to lose over that!!! :-) But now we may never see a properly remastered version of Arboria (Planet Of The Tree Men)! :P |