| Yara 09.04.2009 02:52 |
I'm really dismayed by and schocked at the images of the ruins left by the earthquake, followed by minor ones, which is causing so much suffering and devastated L'Aqcuilla and other neighbooring towns. It's so brutal. It's 272 people dead so far, I don't know how many lost their homes, much of the historical heritage was levelled, it's all so sad. It was painful to watch the families' suffering. My words of condolance to all Italian Queenzoners. |
| Saif 09.04.2009 03:39 |
Wow, I feel sorry for the earthquake victims. Yet again the Italian PM(Berlusconi) makes an insensitive comment(Google it).... |
| Poo, again 09.04.2009 04:47 |
Saif wrote: Wow, I feel sorry for the earthquake victims. Yet again the Italian PM(Berlusconi) makes an insensitive comment(Google it).... I actually like him and his ways. He is so wealthy and corrupt that he does and says whatever the fuck he wants. Finally a politician with a sense of humour, and after all, the comment wasn't really that insensitive. He was just giving friendly advice to the victims of the earthquake. |
| JoxerTheDeityPirate 09.04.2009 06:17 |
The Queen put ol' Pepperami in his place last week at the G20 summit :-] however,im surprised it took so long for a thread to be started about the quake [mind you,there could of been one but it was lost amongst Jakes nonsense for all we know],been watching it on the news over the last few days,these old towns and villages dont stand a chance in these situations but hopefully 'out of the ruins..' as the old saying goes. you always know when an earthquake disaster changes course when medical teams change the wordings from 'rescue' to 'recovery' when addressing the issue,so i wouldnt be surprised to see the death toll double over the next week or so.. not much else to say on the subject,just got to put it down as 'a force of nature' and 'one of the those things' and move on,tragic events yes,unavoidable probably not.. lets just hope no QZ'ers were caught up in it |
| pittrek 09.04.2009 07:55 |
Saif wrote: Wow, I feel sorry for the earthquake victims. Yet again the Italian PM(Berlusconi) makes an insensitive comment(Google it).... Who gives a damn what does that idiot say ? |
| pittrek 09.04.2009 07:56 |
Yara wrote: I'm really dismayed by and schocked at the images of the ruins left by the earthquake, followed by minor ones, which is causing so much suffering and devastated L'Aqcuilla and other neighbooring towns. It's so brutal. It's 272 people dead so far, I don't know how many lost their homes, much of the historical heritage was levelled, it's all so sad. It was painful to watch the families' suffering. My words of condolance to all Italian Queenzoners. Fully agree. There's too much dieing in this world |
| Saif 09.04.2009 08:58 |
The thing is, the guy is openly racist, just like John Howard(PM of Australia). I've read/heard that he's race-baited Italians against gypsies numerous times successfully. |
| AspiringPhilosophe 09.04.2009 09:13 |
Indeed, this Italian quake is a tragedy. So many dead, and like Joxer said I'm sure the total will double if they have officially started calling it a "recovery" effort, rather than a "rescue" one. My thoughts with the Italians as they clean up from this. The damage to the historic palaces and such was also horrible to see...I hope they are able to restore the historic places. |
| Lady Nyx 09.04.2009 10:41 |
im in venice right now, and i arrived the day it happened. it was nice that people were concerned whether i was ok or not (they dont keep up well with my updates haha) but it was strange to hear that this was so close! so sad.... |
| The Real Wizard 09.04.2009 15:50 |
God brought an earthquake to the catholic nation of all catholic nations. Surely there must be some kind of inconsistency somewhere here... Naturally, my sympathies go out to everyone affected, so don't come back at me for being allegedly insensitive. I can only hope one can be permitted to think freely and have heartfelt empathy at the same time. Someone had to get this taboo out in the open, so let the God-fearing folk bring on the flame war. |
| inu-liger 09.04.2009 16:08 |
Sir GH wrote: God brought an earthquake to the catholic nation of all catholic nations. Surely there must be some kind of inconsistency somewhere here... Naturally, my sympathies go out to everyone affected, so don't come back at me for being allegedly insensitive. I can only hope one can be permitted to think freely and have heartfelt empathy at the same time. Someone had to get this taboo out in the open, so let the God-fearing folk bring on the flame war. Sir GH, I had this very thought yesterday afternoon. Surely this must be a warning to that Nazi Pope? |
| YourValentine 09.04.2009 21:30 |
Sir GH wrote: God brought an earthquake to the catholic nation of all catholic nations. Surely there must be some kind of inconsistency somewhere here... Naturally, my sympathies go out to everyone affected, so don't come back at me for being allegedly insensitive. I can only hope one can be permitted to think freely and have heartfelt empathy at the same time. Someone had to get this taboo out in the open, so let the God-fearing folk bring on the flame war. Which taboo? There is no connection between the tectonic activities in Italy and the religion of the Italian people or a part of the Italian people. Where is the "free thinking part" in your comment? You seem to think that Catholics do not understand how an earthquake comes to happen - maybe you think they believe God "sent it"? Well in fact Catholics have a brain like all other human beings. I do not see how rubbing religion into peoples' faces when they are hit by a very painful tragedy is a sign of specific empathy and/or free thinking. I am an agnostic and in no church at all but I do not understand how bringing up the religion of people in mourning is in any way breaking a taboo or a shining example of "free thinking" |
| The Real Wizard 10.04.2009 00:42 |
My point is simply that if these people will be praying to their God amidst the relief/recovery efforts, where was their God when the earthquake was happening? Generally speaking, people see their deity as the force that controls things that they cannot control. So does this include natural disasters or not? Only the believer can answer that according to what they would like to be true. I'm not judging anyone, nor am I suggesting they don't have brains. This is 100-year-old philosophy for some, but new thoughts for others, especially if they subscribe to organized religion. Maybe the aftermath of a tragedy is a good time for people to re-evaluate the way they see the world, which could make them spiritually and individually stronger, rather than picking and choosing when their deity of choice is looking out for their best interests. |
| YourValentine 10.04.2009 04:02 |
I also think that believers are convinced that God is the origin of everything that happens but that is true for many religions, not only Catholics.There has always been a deep human desire to apply meaning to senseless suffering and senseless dying. There has always been a deep human hope that death does not destroy our souls but that there is some sort of afterlife. Again this is true for many religions, not only Catholics. Of course these very fundamental human needs have been exploited and abused by many religious leaders - not only Catholics. In a tragedy like the earthquake in Abruzzo people find comfort in their faith. They take their dead to the church and have them buried with a Christian ceremony. Perhaps some lose their faith but many need the hope they find in their faith more than ever. I just think it's not a good time for non-believers to start a discussion about spiritual superiority. In fact, I do not think that my Italian friends, who are ALL Catholics, need to improve spiritually. They do not push their faith into my face and I do not question their religion. It's a matter of mutual respect. |
| john bodega 10.04.2009 05:53 |
Why do you guys keep mentioning God? What has Brian May got to do with this. : |
| JoxerTheDeityPirate 10.04.2009 07:01 |
Zebonka12 wrote: Why do you guys keep mentioning God? What has Brian May got to do with this. : coz in the end its Brians fault.its the 5 stages of Brian! *does the sign of the pentagon and says a few hail marys to ward off the impending doom* |
| The Real Wizard 11.04.2009 13:00 |
YourValentine wrote: I also think that believers are convinced that God is the origin of everything that happens but that is true for many religions, not only Catholics. Of course. I'd be saying the same thing for any natural disaster in any part of the world where the majority of the people subscribed to a single faith. It's simply food for thought. >I just think it's not a good time for non-believers to start a discussion about spiritual superiority. It's not about superiority. It's about alternatives, and using one's mind to its potential. In the spirit of mutual understanding and growth as a people, is choosing a faith that our ancestors had forced upon them the best choice a 21st-century mind can make? >In fact, I do not think that my Italian friends, who are ALL Catholics, need to improve spiritually. They do not push their faith into my face and I do not question their religion. It's a matter of mutual respect. What kind of world would we live in if nobody challenged their fellow beings to grow? Avoiding discussion under the guise of mutual respect is exactly why I used the word "taboo" in my first post. Asking someone to even talk about their faith is still considered a taboo by most people, and I think it's a horrible loss for the human race that they feel the need to hide behind it instead of rationally discussing it with others and why it works for them, while learning about why someone else's view of the world works for them as well. It rarely happens, because 99 times out 100, "because I believe it" is where the discussion stops. In most cases, being an adherent of a major religion is not a rational choice, which is why the discussion rarely goes anywhere, as opposed to some alternative worldviews that can be rationalized. Therefore it's not mutual respect. We'd have mutual respect if Christians, Jews, Muslims, Bahais, and Buddhists all knew plenty about each other's histories and current issues within each. Until then, it's mutual silence, and mutual avoiding discussion to aim for a better understanding of each other. Absence of dialogue between the faiths has led to some of history's biggest conflicts and hundreds of millions of deaths, but the absence of dialogue on this entirely different level is a less visible but arguably equally major problem that most of us don't recognize yet. |
| YourValentine 12.04.2009 07:10 |
I am very much for dialogue between religions. I am also very much in favour of learning about all religions. I strongly oppose and fight against all attempts to force religious views and ethics on me or the legal system of my country. I think religion is very private and should stay that way, I am totally against all kind of proselytizing. On the other hand I just think it's not okay to use a disaster like the earthquake where 30 000 people are left homeless as a starting point to discuss religion with believers. It would be unkind and disrespectful towards the suffering of people in a highly distressful situation. To point out that ithe eartquake hit the "most Catholic country" would not add much to the dialogue beween the religions imo. I really think that it's not the absence of challenging suffering people about their religion that causes severe conflicts and hundreds of thousands of casualties: It's intolerance, lack of knowledge and respect and mainly the abuse of religion by leaders who manipulate people disguising their true motives with a religious dicourse. It's necessary to discuss the role of the church in politics and state issues - for example the role of the Vatican during the Mussolini regime to name just one example. But it's totally useless to offend grieving people about their faith. |
| The Real Wizard 12.04.2009 12:36 |
I see your point, and I realize that most reasonable people take that kind of stance. That said, I still maintain that the most effective personal growth comes in times of challenge and trial, not in times of smooth sailing. I don't see why religion should be exempt from that. If most people remain complacent in a time like this, nothing will change. |
| thomasquinn 32989 12.04.2009 13:49 |
Sir GH wrote: That said, I still maintain that the most effective personal growth comes in times of challenge and trial, not in times of smooth sailing. And not just personal growth. History shows that great innovations do not grow gradually. They arrive in a shock, and *settle* gradually. |
| JoxerTheDeityPirate 12.04.2009 18:02 |
ThomasQuinn wrote:a bit like a Big Mac entering the gut area..Sir GH wrote: That said, I still maintain that the most effective personal growth comes in times of challenge and trial, not in times of smooth sailing.. They arrive in a shock, and *settle* gradually. |