| MercuryAngel209 09.03.2009 05:50 |
I believe Freddie knew he had HIV for a long time before he was finally tested. He may of been diagnosed with AIDs by 1986. After Live Aid, Brian May, and the rest of the band, including Freddie were in the studio finishing their Magic Album. When time for touring came around, Freddie said he had had enough of touring and wanted to make it their last stretch on the touring circuit. He was adamant about it and put his foot down when Brian May pressed him as to why he was giving up on the touring part of Queen. Freddie just said he had enough. Inside, however, although Im no Freddie insider(in his close circle of friends.), Freddie was exhausted. He had just begun a serious relationship with Jim, that would last until he died. He wanted to relax a bit. Take stock of life and enjoy his time out of the press and spotlight. Freddie most likely knew he had something. He knew of flight attendents and bartenders at gay clubs he had one night stands with die from a disease that he thought was at first contracted as an inhalant from cocaine use. He had officially been tested in 1987 and diagnosed with full blown AIDS. At the time the drugs were years away from success. They were in their infancy and terrible side effects occured, such as weight gain, nausea, etc. Freddie knew that he contracted AIDS from having multiple partners. He did not blame Jim. Jim, most likely got HIV from Freddie. In the early 80s, Freddie, Kenny Everett, a spaniard name Pepe and a russian solider named Nicolai, had a sexual foursome for a long time. Nicolai, is said to be the person who infected all of them and was the first to die. Nicolai was rampantlly permiscuous. I am sick of people here blaming Jim for infecting Freddie. No one knows the true orgin of how Freddie became infected, nor who gave it to him. I wanted to point out in one of the threads, one person said that Mary said that Jim gave Freddie HIV. That is completely a lie. Mary to this day has never spoken of the orgin of Freddie's HIV/AIDS. She and Jim may both have been at odds and still are to this day. However, Mary has never betrayed Freddie's confidence and told anything about Freddie that others already knew themselves. Im not saying Mary was always nice to Jim about things before and after Freddie's death. But I do believe out of everyone, it is Mary who truly cared about Freddie. I have read Jim's book. I found it to be, in my opinion very real and honest. However, either Jim was not very affectionate or was closed to Freddie at times, because, I wished he would have shown his love to Freddie more openly, the way Freddie deserved to be loved. I think in the end Freddie made the right decision and left his money and estate to Mary because he felt she would be the one to perserve it in a way he would have wanted. Freddie was a wonderful musical genius, the likes of will never be seen again. He left an indelible mark on many who loved him so much. We all secretly hope he is looking from beyond to really see how incredible he was to so many. I do believe he didnt know how much he was loved and how people really did love him not just for how he made them feel by his musical genius but by the kindly generosity and thoughtfulness he showed to countless names and faces who benefitted from a look, a smile and even of touch of the true king of Queen. |
| pittrek 09.03.2009 07:03 |
According to Peter Freestone he knew it since 1988 if I remember correctly |
| new one 09.03.2009 07:03 |
I too have read Jims book and found it to be an interesting read. I'm not sure Freddie would have wanted the world to know of his last words etc but who knows. With regards the who infected who thing i guess we can only take Jim Huttons word for it. I think the reason people are suspicious of Jim is the fact that he is still alive today and never developed full blown aids. I realise that this is something genetic with jim which means he will not develop full bllown aids. It is mildly suspicious that Jim waited to so long to be tested after Freddie was diagnosed given that they were lovers and did not practice safe sex. Was it because he knew he was already HIV positive and had perhaps infected Freddie himself? We will never know but I think the suspicion will always be there rightly or wrongly. |
| Raffy 09.03.2009 09:30 |
Freddie knew he had HIV in March/April 1987 but according to my opinion he was infected back in 1982/'83 'cause the virus incubation could last between a period of 5-10 years and now more than 20 years with the new medicines (so maybe he was sieropositive 'till 86 and developed AIDS later that year). Although I think that he was already conscious of being ill during the Magic Tour era. I doubt the fact that he suspect to be ill before that period... |
| Winter Land Man 09.03.2009 14:28 |
pittrek wrote: According to Peter Freestone he knew it since 1988 if I remember correctly Peter Freestone's book doesn't mention when Freddie got it. Peter said Freddie told him about it in 1989. |
| Crisstti 09.03.2009 15:09 |
new one wrote: I too have read Jims book and found it to be an interesting read. I'm not sure Freddie would have wanted the world to know of his last words etc but who knows. With regards the who infected who thing i guess we can only take Jim Huttons word for it. I think the reason people are suspicious of Jim is the fact that he is still alive today and never developed full blown aids. I realise that this is something genetic with jim which means he will not develop full bllown aids. It is mildly suspicious that Jim waited to so long to be tested after Freddie was diagnosed given that they were lovers and did not practice safe sex. Was it because he knew he was already HIV positive and had perhaps infected Freddie himself? We will never know but I think the suspicion will always be there rightly or wrongly. I guess he didn't take a test for years because he knew it was very probable he had HIV and didn't feel like getting a confirmation?. I mean, what for?. I think the HIV test of the time as not very reliable and that it took weeks to get the result and then weeks for the confirmation (someone correct me if I'm wrong...). So maybe he didn't want to go through all that... It does seem far more likely that it was Freddie who infected Jim and not the other way around. In any case, it's just a sad accident... It's so absurd when you see people wishing horrible things to whoever infected Freddie. They don't seem to consider that freddie probably infected many people. |
| vadenuez 09.03.2009 16:54 |
MercuryAngel209 wrote: In the early 80s, Freddie, Kenny Everett, a spaniard name Pepe and a russian solider named Nicolai, had a sexual foursome for a long time. Nicolai, is said to be the person who infected all of them and was the first to die. Nicolai was rampantlly permiscuous. I am sick of people here blaming Jim for infecting Freddie. No one knows the true orgin of how Freddie became infected, nor who gave it to him. There's a huge contradiction here. |
| L-R-TIGER1994 09.03.2009 17:01 |
As Freddie had a promiscuous life may be he wasn't even sure who infected him. |
| new one 09.03.2009 17:39 |
Crisstti wrote:new one wrote: I too have read Jims book and found it to be an interesting read. I'm not sure Freddie would have wanted the world to know of his last words etc but who knows. With regards the who infected who thing i guess we can only take Jim Huttons word for it. I think the reason people are suspicious of Jim is the fact that he is still alive today and never developed full blown aids. I realise that this is something genetic with jim which means he will not develop full bllown aids. It is mildly suspicious that Jim waited to so long to be tested after Freddie was diagnosed given that they were lovers and did not practice safe sex. Was it because he knew he was already HIV positive and had perhaps infected Freddie himself? We will never know but I think the suspicion will always be there rightly or wrongly.I guess he didn't take a test for years because he knew it was very probable he had HIV and didn't feel like getting a confirmation?. I mean, what for?. I think the HIV test of the time as not very reliable and that it took weeks to get the result and then weeks for the confirmation (someone correct me if I'm wrong...). So maybe he didn't want to go through all that... It does seem far more likely that it was Freddie who infected Jim and not the other way around. In any case, it's just a sad accident... It's so absurd when you see people wishing horrible things to whoever infected Freddie. They don't seem to consider that freddie probably infected many people. It could indeed be the case that Jim Hutton didn't want to go through the process infact thats pretty much what he says in his book and that he didn't want to upset Freddie any further. I was not actually saying that I believe Jim infected Freddie, I take him at his word that it was infact the other way round. I was just offering a possible explanation to the thread starter who was wondering why some queen fans blame Jim for Freddies death. I just think the whole episode is a terrible tragedy that nobody should have to go through regardless of their sexuality or sex drive. |
| thunderbolt 31742 09.03.2009 21:46 |
While I have no idea whatsoever when Freddie found out he was carrying HIV, one could pretty safely surmise that he did not know in 1984. What *is* known is that Freddie's farewells at the end of concerts had become much more sincere by the middle of the Magic Tour, and at the Knebworth gig, there's evidence that the entire band knew it would be their last show together. Freddie had, I believe, been hinting all year that he wasn't planning on touring again afterwards, and at the Madrid show, he finally came out and told the band that he was done touring after Knebworth. Still, he may not have known that he was carrying HIV yet--the man had been wrapped in the cycle of album-tour-album-tour for almost 15 years by that point, as had the rest of the band, and perhaps he'd just finally had enough of prancing around a stage. My thoughts on the subject? I'd wager that Freddie was acutely aware of the likely possibility that he was infected by the time of the Magic Tour, and sometime between the first 1986 Munich show and the end of that tour, he got test results back confirming his fears. |
| thequeen 09.03.2009 22:14 |
He might have "ignored" "it" till 1988 but he knew it by 1986 ..... Freddie... I will ALWAYS MISS YOU !!!!!!!!! theQueen ...fan of Queen and of "one" Freddie Mercury!!!!!! |
| jadedlady 09.03.2009 22:26 |
If he knew he had it in 1984 I will be very surprised. He looked to be in the best shape of his life around that time. |
| inu-liger 09.03.2009 22:43 |
Didn't it say in the biography included in his Solo boxset that he was officially diagnosed HIV Positive in 1987? |
| john bodega 09.03.2009 23:20 |
It does say, but some people have a superstitious, frankly bizarre distrust of Jim Hutton. It's called the "I like Queen, therefore I know enough to pass judgement on the people in the band and everyone who ever knew them personally" syndrome. It is because of this syndrome that people stick their fingers in their ears, go 'gnah gnah gnah' and make up their own minds about when Freddie knew he had HIV. I will say this much; it's totally reasonable to assume that Freddie would've been paranoid (or even known on some level) that he'd probably been infected, long before tests actually confirmed it. There really is no point trying to put a date on it though... |
| thequeen 09.03.2009 23:27 |
Zebonka12 wrote: It does say, but some people have a superstitious, frankly bizarre distrust of Jim Hutton. It's called the "I like Queen, therefore I know enough to pass judgement on the people in the band and everyone who ever knew them personally" syndrome. It is because of this syndrome that people stick their fingers in their ears, go 'gnah gnah gnah' and make up their own minds about when Freddie knew he had HIV. I will say this much; it's totally reasonable to assume that Freddie would've been paranoid (or even known on some level) that he'd probably been infected, long before tests actually confirmed it. There really is no point trying to put a date on it though... Well what's the point of your post then ? make sense ..... |
| thequeen 09.03.2009 23:28 |
...MAKES sense ! |
| Crisstti 10.03.2009 02:29 |
inu-liger wrote: Didn't it say in the biography included in his Solo boxset that he was officially diagnosed HIV Positive in 1987? Did it?. I think the 1984 date is brought up because Mary Austin said in an interview that he "lived withe knowledge that he had HIV for 7 years" (going from memory). |
| Crisstti 10.03.2009 02:31 |
Zebonka12 wrote: It does say, but some people have a superstitious, frankly bizarre distrust of Jim Hutton. It's called the "I like Queen, therefore I know enough to pass judgement on the people in the band and everyone who ever knew them personally" syndrome. LOL!!!. No doubt one sees that attitude... |
| jadedlady 10.03.2009 05:22 |
Crisstti wrote:inu-liger wrote: Didn't it say in the biography included in his Solo boxset that he was officially diagnosed HIV Positive in 1987?Did it?. I think the 1984 date is brought up because Mary Austin said in an interview that he "lived withe knowledge that he had HIV for 7 years" (going from memory). When did Mary say that and to who? |
| Sunshine 10.03.2009 05:53 |
I think he knew it indeed in 1986 but got the virus maybe already in the early 80's. He got Aids in 1987 when he developed Kaposi's sarcom and felt sick. The virus started in the US among gay men. Then it travelled to Europe. And because Freddie was clubbing heavily in that period, the chance he got it in his New York period or Munich period is likely. No one knows for sure when he knew it. My guess is that he knew it as soon he stopped clubbing suddenly, like end of 1985-early 1986. Maybe then he found out he was infected and made his way of thinking different. If he got infected 5 yrs later, he probably would still be alive... |
| Crisstti 10.03.2009 11:33 |
Sunshine wrote: I think he knew it indeed in 1986 but got the virus maybe already in the early 80's. He got Aids in 1987 when he developed Kaposi's sarcom and felt sick. The virus started in the US among gay men. Then it travelled to Europe. And because Freddie was clubbing heavily in that period, the chance he got it in his New York period or Munich period is likely. No one knows for sure when he knew it. My guess is that he knew it as soon he stopped clubbing suddenly, like end of 1985-early 1986. Maybe then he found out he was infected and made his way of thinking different. If he got infected 5 yrs later, he probably would still be alive... Didn't it start in Africa?. It's ironic, really, because the people who got in the late 70's, early 80's didn't know about the danger, or very vaguely. The people who got it later were probably being more irresponsible. Not that they desereved it at all either, but it seems unfair. |
| Crisstti 10.03.2009 11:43 |
jadedlady wrote: When did Mary say that and to who? In an interview to the Daily Mail, in 2000 it seems: link The same interview appears in that website, but in OK Magazine. Funnily enough, they edited some parts: http://www.freddie.ru/e/archives/ok/ (this one has photographs). |
| jadedlady 10.03.2009 23:00 |
Crisstti wrote:jadedlady wrote: When did Mary say that and to who?In an interview to the Daily Mail, in 2000 it seems: link The same interview appears in that website, but in OK Magazine. Funnily enough, they edited some parts: http://www.freddie.ru/e/archives/ok/ (this one has photographs). Interesting reading it, if a bit sad. |
| Marcos Napier 12.03.2009 00:59 |
jadedlady wrote: If he knew he had it in 1984 I will be very surprised. He looked to be in the best shape of his life around that time. I have to disagree. When they came for Rock in Rio, I remember thinking he was kinda fat, and a visible belly could be spotted, and it was a bit less evident during Live Aid. The next year, he was a bit (way) thinner for the Magic concerts. To me it all started around 85 although the confirmation was around 87, but when he finally was tested it was because the symptoms were starting to get more and more evident and not because he wanted to know if he had it or not - he knew he had it. |
| jadedlady 12.03.2009 04:08 |
Marcos Napier wrote:[img=/images/smiley/msn/sad_smile.gif][/img]jadedlady wrote: If he knew he had it in 1984 I will be very surprised. He looked to be in the best shape of his life around that time.I have to disagree. When they came for Rock in Rio, I remember thinking he was kinda fat, and a visible belly could be spotted, and it was a bit less evident during Live Aid. The next year, he was a bit (way) thinner for the Magic concerts. To me it all started around 85 although the confirmation was around 87, but when he finally was tested it was because the symptoms were starting to get more and more evident and not because he wanted to know if he had it or not - he knew he had it. I did not realise. |
| A_WintersTale 13.03.2009 09:07 |
I don't see much sense in finding out precise time for something terrible that had its fatal end anyway but let me contribute to the topic nevertheless. While he was still working in Munich, Freddie got close to the German actress Barbara Valentine. She, herself, also passed away in 2002 but in HER memoirs she mentioned that she was the first person to MAKE him to make an HIV-test. This was the period of the "Mr. Bad Guy"-album. (He dedicated it later to her "big tits" amongst other dedications) You do the math! |
| «¤~Mrš. BÃD GÛŸ~¤» 13.03.2009 11:13 |
What does it matter?? The man died of terrible, incurable disease. We lost a talented, wonderful musician who gave so much and filled the entire world with his beautiful voice and songs. |
| L-R-TIGER1994 13.03.2009 11:34 |
It's not the real matter of the topic but Barbara Valentine was not German but Austrian. |
| The Real Wizard 13.03.2009 11:34 |
There is little doubt that he knew it during the Magic tour. |
| L-R-TIGER1994 13.03.2009 13:50 |
I found this: "Freddie broke with Winnie and his relationship with Jim became better. His relation with Barbara came to end at the end of 1985 when Freddie decides to go back to England, he left Barbara with no reason, perhaps because he found out he had aids and was afraid to tell her. When he found out he had aids he stopped with his nightlive and stayed home al the time in his dreamhouse Garden Lodge." On Barbara's memoirs she said that the last time she saw Freddie he was crying and gave her no reason for that,she invited him to go to her house but he preferred to return to his hotel,he moved to England and never saw him again. |
| cleitj 01.04.2009 18:32 |
I thought that Freddie never used drugs like Jim says in one article- he tried every drug that excist-.....(i read that somewhere).But, I really dont think Freddie would do the unsafe sex with anyone,if he knew he was HIV positive..especailly with Jim..I read somewhere they met in 1983 and here i read its 1985. year. Watch The Untold Story,and u'll hear how Freddie told them he is HIV positive,and u will hear that he couldn even say that word (HIV)..He couldnt say that to his mom and dad,he didnt want to hurt them... |
| Crisstti 02.04.2009 21:45 |
A pair of things: - Mary said in that interview that Freddie knew he had HIV for 7 years, which would put the date in 1984 or 1985. - Barbara Valentin suspected he knew in 1984, when she says he left her. She says that because he left her without explanation, and because of that incident in which he cut himself and didn't want her to get near. She also says they had sex. And that she was the first person to make him have an HIV test. - Peter Jones (Freddie's driver and friend until 1984) said that he thinks Freddie knew then, because that would explain some attitudes of his as well as an almost fall from some stairs... Now, Kes from the forum in Queenonline has said many times that Jim, Peter AND Mary have given 1987 as the date. But I haven't seen an interview with her saying that. Would it be possible that the magazine made a mistake?. Both Barbara Valentin's and Peter John's impressions that Freddie knew in 1984 are something they thought in hindsight, when they knew later that he had AIDS. the attitudes they talk about could be explained by many other things (personal problems, drugs...), and not necessarily because he knew he had HIV. Maybe he left Barbara because he wanted to live with Jim?. As for the HIV test, they weren't very reliable at the time (for what I know) so it mighthave been negative. Now, if they are right, then: - Barbara Valentin would have had HIV too. Does anyone know if she did?. Actually, whether he knew or not in 1984, he very probably had it by then , so in any case she would have had it. - Freddie would have knowingly infected who knows how many men, since by any account he was having a lot of casual sex until 1985 at least. - Jim said they only started to use protection after Freddie told him he had AIDS in 1987, so if he knew since 1984 it would mean that he knowingly infected Jim. And his German boyfriend, Winnie. So, it would really lower my opinion of Freddie if he indeed knew in 1984. But I refuse to believe him capable of that unless some better evidence is presented. Plus, think about it: - If he didn't want Barbara to come close to him when he had cut himself (to protect her, evidently), then, how would you explain that he wouldn't care about having unprotected sex with Jim (and Winnie)?. - Monserrat Caballe has said that he told her that he had HIV, saying that he felt "it was his obligation" to tell her. So, he felt morally obliged to tell a friend, with whom he was not having sex, but didn care about having unprotected sex with his boyfriends...?. Doesn't seem to make sense. |
| Crisstti 02.04.2009 21:46 |
L-R-TIGER1994 wrote: I found this: "Freddie broke with Winnie and his relationship with Jim became better. His relation with Barbara came to end at the end of 1985 when Freddie decides to go back to England, he left Barbara with no reason, perhaps because he found out he had aids and was afraid to tell her. When he found out he had aids he stopped with his nightlive and stayed home al the time in his dreamhouse Garden Lodge." On Barbara's memoirs she said that the last time she saw Freddie he was crying and gave her no reason for that,she invited him to go to her house but he preferred to return to his hotel,he moved to England and never saw him again. Peter Freestone said Freddie and Barbara remained friends until the end... |
| Under Pressure 03.04.2009 20:26 |
Does Peter Jones have a book? Or any interviews with Joe Fanelli? Or any of Freddie's other friends? I'd be interested in reading some other perspectives on this other than Jim's book, Peter Freestone's book, and Mary's one interview. I think Jim's writing is heartfelt, but it's also very clouded because of his deep feelings, his seeming feud with Mary, and from what I've noticed, a tendency to contradict or embellish for dramatic purposes. I know in many cases he has completely left her out of events for which she was present, or refers to her as simply a company secretary. My 2c is that he likely would have known before Live Aid, just because he must have felt the slow effects for a LONG time before he finally got symptoms he could no longer deny, but that doesn't count for much since I didn't know him! |
| cleitj 05.04.2009 18:31 |
kenny everett discovered he was HIV+ in 1984,after Nicolai (russian)..Freddie was awarned about that desease from his friend Paul Gambaccini who just got back from USA.Nicolai went in NY and got from someone HIV and he infected Freddie and Kenny..I dont read magazines,I believe this when someone close to him gives that interview now.Mary knew that he was ill from the start.He says,that Freddie was ill for about 7 years. |
| cleitj 05.04.2009 18:36 |
and one more thing is that after someone get that infection,and if he tests himself results will be negative for 3-6 months. |
| DanQueen2008 29.01.2011 20:05 |
How is this possible when Freddie didn't get HIV until 1986? After the Magic Tour was over, he went to New York and this is where he got HIV, he was tested and found out in late 1987 |
| jpf 29.01.2011 21:39 |
MercuryAngel209 wrote: I believe Freddie knew he had HIV for a long time before he was finally tested. He may of been diagnosed with AIDs by 1986. After Live Aid, Brian May, and the rest of the band, including Freddie were in the studio finishing their Magic Album. When time for touring came around, Freddie said he had had enough of touring and wanted to make it their last stretch on the touring circuit. He was adamant about it and put his foot down when Brian May pressed him as to why he was giving up on the touring part of Queen. Freddie just said he had enough. Inside, however, although Im no Freddie insider(in his close circle of friends.), Freddie was exhausted. He had just begun a serious relationship with Jim, that would last until he died. He wanted to relax a bit. Take stock of life and enjoy his time out of the press and spotlight. Freddie most likely knew he had something. He knew of flight attendents and bartenders at gay clubs he had one night stands with die from a disease that he thought was at first contracted as an inhalant from cocaine use. He had officially been tested in 1987 and diagnosed with full blown AIDS. At the time the drugs were years away from success. They were in their infancy and terrible side effects occured, such as weight gain, nausea, etc. Freddie knew that he contracted AIDS from having multiple partners. He did not blame Jim. Jim, most likely got HIV from Freddie. In the early 80s, Freddie, Kenny Everett, a spaniard name Pepe and a russian solider named Nicolai, had a sexual foursome for a long time. Nicolai, is said to be the person who infected all of them and was the first to die. Nicolai was rampantlly permiscuous. I am sick of people here blaming Jim for infecting Freddie. No one knows the true orgin of how Freddie became infected, nor who gave it to him. I wanted to point out in one of the threads, one person said that Mary said that Jim gave Freddie HIV. That is completely a lie. Mary to this day has never spoken of the orgin of Freddie's HIV/AIDS. She and Jim may both have been at odds and still are to this day. However, Mary has never betrayed Freddie's confidence and told anything about Freddie that others already knew themselves. Im not saying Mary was always nice to Jim about things before and after Freddie's death. But I do believe out of everyone, it is Mary who truly cared about Freddie. I have read Jim's book. I found it to be, in my opinion very real and honest. However, either Jim was not very affectionate or was closed to Freddie at times, because, I wished he would have shown his love to Freddie more openly, the way Freddie deserved to be loved. I think in the end Freddie made the right decision and left his money and estate to Mary because he felt she would be the one to perserve it in a way he would have wanted. Freddie was a wonderful musical genius, the likes of will never be seen again. He left an indelible mark on many who loved him so much. We all secretly hope he is looking from beyond to really see how incredible he was to so many. I do believe he didnt know how much he was loved and how people really did love him not just for how he made them feel by his musical genius but by the kindly generosity and thoughtfulness he showed to countless names and faces who benefitted from a look, a smile and even of touch of the true king of Queen. ----- Or Freddie left Garden Lodge and 50% of his estate to Mary because he thought Jim, being HIV+, wasn't going to live long (and as we know Jim lived for another 19 years). |
| Gregsynth 29.01.2011 21:50 |
link I doubt Freddie was ill (HIV or AIDS) in 1984--the man was in his peak fitness shape. |
| sharoncooper 31.01.2011 20:58 |
No one may know just when he got the virus.mick rocks thinks it was in new york at the time he became infected. |
| Pim Derks 01.02.2011 00:25 |
We should build a time machine, return to 1975 and tell Freddy to use condoms. Then we return to 2011, Queen have just released a new album and we have 5 albums to listen to which have been released since 1991. Oh, and a huge tour with an orchestra, performing Queen II integral. |
| john bodega 01.02.2011 03:30 |
"I doubt Freddie was ill (HIV or AIDS) in 1984--the man was in his peak fitness shape. " For your edification; having been infected with HIV would not have really made him appear unfit. It's only once it develops into full blown AIDS that things start to really go wrong. He could've had it in '84, easily. A lot of people like to speculate, for some reason, whether he knew or not. I don't think he did, technically, but in line with his growing maturity in those years I think he probably knew there was a possibility that it was gonna happen. |
| Gregsynth 01.02.2011 09:58 |
Well someone said that he looked fat and out of shape because he got infected with HIV. I'm like "that's BS." That photo was to prove that he wasn't fat or out of shape! |
| Hangman_96 01.02.2011 12:09 |
I doubt that Freddie knew about his illness in 1984. Once I read in Rick Sky's book that Freddie had a test of his blood in 1986 and doctor said to him that he's got AIDS (or HIV at that moment, I can't properly remember). About one and a half years ago I read that Freddie got his illness in 1983. |
| notimeforlosers 01.02.2011 13:31 |
Gregsynth wrote: Well someone said that he looked fat and out of shape because he got infected with HIV. I'm like "that's BS." That photo was to prove that he wasn't fat or out of shape! Well, if you've watched Live in Rio you will notice Freddie was indees a bit fatty. He had a belly well in development by that time (january 1985), as well as in the other gigs from early '85. Then suddenly in july by the time of Live Aid, he was totally in shape. Like this picture from this article: link But I don't think this has something to do with his illness. And if I'm going to give an opinion, he was infected by 81-83. It was a time when he was massively going into clubs having unsafe sex with everyone that crossed his way. I have read Lesley-Ann Jones biography (an excellent one, best I've read by the way) and once you read it you're sure that this was the exactly period. But that doesn't mean he knew it. I think he could suppose he did, but was not sure at all. The confirmation test was really in early '87 when he was already developing full blown AIDS. |
| Gregsynth 01.02.2011 14:36 |
notimeforlosers wrote: Gregsynth wrote: Well someone said that he looked fat and out of shape because he got infected with HIV. I'm like "that's BS." That photo was to prove that he wasn't fat or out of shape! Well, if you've watched Live in Rio you will notice Freddie was indees a bit fatty. He had a belly well in development by that time (january 1985), as well as in the other gigs from early '85. Then suddenly in july by the time of Live Aid, he was totally in shape. Like this picture from this article: link But I don't think this has something to do with his illness. And if I'm going to give an opinion, he was infected by 81-83. It was a time when he was massively going into clubs having unsafe sex with everyone that crossed his way. I have read Lesley-Ann Jones biography (an excellent one, best I've read by the way) and once you read it you're sure that this was the exactly period. But that doesn't mean he knew it. I think he could suppose he did, but was not sure at all. The confirmation test was really in early '87 when he was already developing full blown AIDS. ==================== I'm almost positive that Freddie was just out of shape because of not touring (he also had parties during christmas and stuff--probably packed on a few pounds)! As for the test, the only one I was aware was the spring of 1987 (when it said he had AIDS). I'm putting my money on 1984 being the year he got infected (that Russian guy, Kenny Everret, etc), but Freddie didn't get a test until 1986/7 (because he thought it wouldn't happen to him--but when his friends started dying, he started questioning himself). |
| Bigfish 02.02.2011 05:27 |
new one wrote: I too have read Jims book and found it to be an interesting read. I'm not sure Freddie would have wanted the world to know of his last words etc but who knows. With regards the who infected who thing i guess we can only take Jim Huttons word for it. I think the reason people are suspicious of Jim is the fact that he is still alive today and never developed full blown aids. I realise that this is something genetic with jim which means he will not develop full bllown aids. It is mildly suspicious that Jim waited to so long to be tested after Freddie was diagnosed given that they were lovers and did not practice safe sex. Was it because he knew he was already HIV positive and had perhaps infected Freddie himself? We will never know but I think the suspicion will always be there rightly or wrongly. Err... Jim Hutton died last year. |
| notimeforlosers 02.02.2011 20:56 |
Bigfish wrote: new one wrote: I too have read Jims book and found it to be an interesting read. I'm not sure Freddie would have wanted the world to know of his last words etc but who knows. With regards the who infected who thing i guess we can only take Jim Huttons word for it. I think the reason people are suspicious of Jim is the fact that he is still alive today and never developed full blown aids. I realise that this is something genetic with jim which means he will not develop full bllown aids. It is mildly suspicious that Jim waited to so long to be tested after Freddie was diagnosed given that they were lovers and did not practice safe sex. Was it because he knew he was already HIV positive and had perhaps infected Freddie himself? We will never know but I think the suspicion will always be there rightly or wrongly. ---------------------------------- Err... Jim Hutton died last year... ------------------------------------- I think you didn't see the date of new one's post. He wrote back in 2009 when Jim was still sound and safe in Carlow, Ireland. |
| *goodco* 02.02.2011 21:33 |
Freddie did not have AIDS until the summer of 1987. It was not until that time when President Ronald Reagan uttered the term 'AIDS'. Therefore, it did not exist until then, Therefore, Freddie did not have the disease until that time. According to some people, Reagan was gawd. Gawd spoke. And gawd spoke that it did not exist until 1987. Before that year, it was still GRIDS. Actually, according to gawd, GRIDS didn't exist at all. Because gawd never said GRIDS. Case closed. |
| freddiefan91 03.02.2011 01:17 |
for those wanting to know when aids first started read take a look at the following link, that will give your answer link |
| The Real Wizard 03.02.2011 01:43 |
I don't know why this topic is still going. Freddie was a very private man, and only he knew. He told his friends at various times, but that has nothing to do with when he contracted the disease nor when he learned he had it. All we know is he most likely was aware in 1986, and perhaps earlier. |
| john bodega 03.02.2011 07:02 |
"Err... Jim Hutton died last year. " Not a moment too soon! |
| jpf 04.02.2011 01:34 |
Zebonka12 wrote: "Err... Jim Hutton died last year. " Not a moment too soon! --- It should have been Mary. |
| angelmom808 08.07.2012 01:30 |
I just found a pic on Tumblr of Freddie at Live Aid.....anyone notice the "bruises" or marks on his arm?! *sigh* I wish he was still here :/ |
| radiogugu 09.07.2012 02:25 |
Hoenstly freddie has to be infected from 1980-1983. He had karposi sarcoma in 86-87 (full blown aids). You dont get infected and have full blown aids in a year, sorry. He had full blown aids in 87 (karposi sarcoma is an AIDS symptom), he had to have had it for year to go from hiv to aids. I am guessing he was infected between 1980-1983, when nobody knew much about it, and gay men didnt learn to safe sex until it was too late. (freddies case) |
| koldweather123 10.07.2012 11:51 |
I wouldn't be at all if he dd have it in 1984. He also probably would have had an increasingly good idea that he had it, even if he did actually take the test a fair bit later than 84-85. If people you know and used to be in the same circle as started coming down with it, you'd be increasingly concerned that you'd also have it, so I think Freddie probably had a fairly good idea by say 1985, though it may not hae been confirmed at that stage. Radiogugu, you can have what they call rapid progress, where in you can be DEAD from AIDS within a year of first catching HIV. You'd unlucky but its just as possible to get that as it is to survive 15-20 years and not have it become AIDS. |
| niall 11.07.2012 07:43 |
What a horrible thing to say, Zebonka. You should be ashamed of yourself. You come across as a pathetic little person. |
| Day dop 15.07.2012 23:52 |
Barbara valentine never had HIV or AIDS did she? They shagged plenty apparently... |
| Hangman_96 16.07.2012 08:20 |
Day dop wrote: Barbara valentine never had HIV or AIDS did she? They shagged plenty apparently...That sounds lame. |
| Day dop 16.07.2012 09:16 |
"That sounds lame." That's like... comment of the year or something. |
| Hangman_96 16.07.2012 14:03 |
Of course it is! My comments are always nominated as comments of the year. Thanks for attention. |
| Day dop 16.07.2012 20:33 |
You say it like it's a good thing. I would thank you for the attention you gave me in the first place, but it wasn't wanted - as you said nothing of any worth whatsoever. |
| daaydo 07.09.2012 20:40 |
I'm definitlely not an AIDS expert or anything, but I do consider myself a Freddie Mercury fanatic. I've read countless books, and have watched countless videos and documentaries, all in which state facts- obviously with no proof of complete true-ness. However, from these "facts" I have come to my own conclusion about Freddie's battle with the disease, which I'll share with you now- you can chose what to believe. The original diagnosis date that I was aware of, was during the spring of 1987- right around Easter if I'm not mistaken. I believe Freddie/ Jim Hutton noticed some type of mark or bruise (which I've learned is a side effect or symptom of AIDS) on Freddie's shoulder or back- maybe stomach or leg I don't know (lol). Anyway, this mark supposedly led to Freddie getting checked out and tested for the first time. I think that he was in denial and he didn't want to know- but he was eventually diagnosed- I think at a time when Jim was out of the country- so Freddie called Jim to return, and from there he began his battle- with only a few other select people aware of his state. A second possible idea, which I've come to realize from several outside sources- is that Freddie may have been privately tested for HIV/AIDS at some point during 1986. There is not much proof of this- besides the fact that there have been several statements or whatever quoted by Freddie Mercury during the Magic Tour, leading to the conclusion that something could be wrong with him. I can't remember exact quotes, but I do remember hearing Roger Taylor and Brian May saying how they thought that Freddie knew that he might not be terribly well, and that he knew that this could be their last tour. These statements do lead one to believe that Freddie did know at least on some level, that he wasn't all that healthy. Whichever of these 2 scenarios- or any other outside scenario, you want to believe- you do have to realize that the probability of Freddie finding out that he was HIV positive the second he became HIV positive is extremely low. He was most likely infected in the early 80's- or maybe even the late 70's. This would make sense because these are also the years where Freddie was at the height of his sex/bar/party life. The only other facts that I have about Freddie and his illness- are that he did chose to come off of his medications and die at some point- I'm not sure when. But this shows that he was suffering- and by the time he was diagnosed- it was definitely full blown AIDS, and pretty far along. One last thing- I'm not sure if it's even a "thing" but I'm just going to put it out there and it's open for interpretation. I am not a doctor or nurse and I know very little about AIDS, but watching Queen's 1985 performance at Live Aid- I have noticed a very small purplish mark on the side or back of Freddie's I believe right arm or shoulder... I don't know what this means, but knowing the relationship between AIDS and marks and bruises- I can only believe that this is some type of sign that Freddie was definitely infected by 1985... Okay, I think thats it... this whole thing really is a mystery, and it's such a shame that we lost this amazing talented beautiful person at such a young age from such a terrible disease.. Thanks for reading ;) |
| daaydo 07.09.2012 20:52 |
I personally believe that Freddie was infected during the late 70s or early 80s- this was a time of extreme partying and sex for Freddie- add no protection and no idea of what AIDS really is into the mix- and its just a recipe for disaster. It is said that Freddie wasn't diagnosed until spring of 1987, although Brian May and Roger Taylor have been quoted as saying how they thought that Freddie didn't think that he was terribly well during the Magic Tour (1986) and that they thought that he knew that that may be their last tour. I have also noticed a purplish mark on Freddie's arm during 1985's Live Aid if you look really close.. this could very well just be a bruise- but from what I know about AIDS (which is very little), bruises and marks are somehow associated with the disease- so that could very well be a clear sign that he had already been not only infected with HIV- but with full blown AIDS, by 1985. From what I understand, marks like these don't occur to a person with HIV- but with AIDS. P.S I'm not a doctor so any AIDS info could very well be incorrect- please feel free to comment and correct me if that is so ;) Thanks for reading |
| Gregsynth 07.09.2012 21:12 |
The sarcoma spots didn't start to appear until 1987 (you can see a spot on his left cheek during his "last interview" from 1987). The spot at Live Aid was just a standard bruise. |
| Supersonic_Man89 07.09.2012 23:18 |
For all the detectives out there, watch the Freddie Mercury and Kenny Everett documentary...it kinda states who most probably gave the disease to Freddie, but doesn't say when, although there's clues if you really wanna find out. |
| tomchristie22 08.09.2012 00:03 |
Better yet, don't watch that prejudiced, poorly made piece of crap :P If I remember correctly they said in DoRo's Untold Story documentary that he got it from some big Russian guy in New York in 88 or sometime in the late 80's, I don't really remember. Or that could've been in Freddie Mercury & Kenny Everett, I don't know. |
| brENsKi 08.09.2012 03:22 |
tomchristie22 wrote: Better yet, don't watch that prejudiced, poorly made piece of crap :P If I remember correctly they said in DoRo's Untold Story documentary that he got it from some big Russian guy in New York in 88 or sometime in the late 80's, I don't really remember. Or that could've been in Freddie Mercury & Kenny Everett, I don't know.so you're claiming he actually contracted hiv AFTER he already had visible signs (sarcomas) of the disease? interesting theory |
| tomchristie22 08.09.2012 06:35 |
I'm not claiming that at all, I'm saying that's what some shitty documentary claimed, which is a reason not to take said documentaries as reputable sources. |
| Bigfish 08.09.2012 06:44 |
I am desperately trying to unsubscribe to this thread but cannot. |
| Supersonic_Man89 08.09.2012 07:35 |
The documentary didn't say that at all. Not saying they're 100% factual but they interview some of Freddie's closest friends as well as some of Kenny Everett's, who also knew Freddie well but hadn't been spoken to in other Queen related documentaries. |
| tomchristie22 08.09.2012 08:27 |
I must have been thinking of another one then. My mistake |
| Bigfish 08.09.2012 08:45 |
Maybe if I start swearing someone will pull the plug.. |
| tomchristie22 08.09.2012 22:37 |
You poor tortured soul |
| splicksplack 10.09.2012 10:47 |
What a load of toss you all spout. How on earth would someone who has multiple partners know which one passed on the HIV virus? And why the fuck are you speculating anyway? |
| brENsKi 10.09.2012 13:07 |
while i agree in fact with what you're saying, it is almost possible to deduce these things in some cases for example: if X Y & Z all find out they're hiv+, and they all had unprotected sex with W 3yrs ago, who found out last yr that he was hiv+, then there's a certain amount of logic in that assumption |
| lvq 11.09.2012 03:10 |
That would work if those incidents were singular and not joined by countless other exposures. It's basically impossible to trace the source. Freddie was exposed countless times to the virus, before and after he contracted it, you can trace that through his track record. Many of the people with whom he got intimate died before him. Freddie's lifestyle propelled in 1978. If details about Freddie's promiscuity are true, then really, even as early as the late 70's, when HIV wasn't all that prevalent, it would have been hard for him not to get exposed. Having a one year relationship with a person who subsequently succumbed to the disease was of no help either, but even that incident is not the sure case due to the circumstances of the time. |
| lvq 11.09.2012 03:18 |
It's impossible for Freddie to have known of infection as early as 84, when no tests was available. I suspect Freddie became aware of the risks as some of his former partners fell to the illness, around 85-86. But back then, the outlook of being diagnosed with the virus was so bleak, that many people at risk refused to get tested. They were too afraid to get tested. Perhaps Freddie just avoided testing until the first symptoms of AIDS surfaced. |
| Fmercurio 09.09.2014 18:09 |
Freddie probably had the virus by 83-84. Wasn't that the time he was spending all those crazy club nights in New York? By the early 80s hiv was spreading more in new york than in England and according to close friends from him it was very likely he got the disease there. Now I'm positive that tho he mightve been self conscious about it since he was aware of his careless sex life . I really doubt he knew he had it back then. Maybe he knew there was a possibly he had it and avoided medically knowing out of fear. I'm sure that by 86 tho around the magic tour he must've felt strongly about it and started feeling more brave to officially know about it since some of his lovers had died of it by that time. I'm sure he suspected and somewhere around late 1986 or early 1987 he got tested to then get the news in spring of 87 he had aids (according to jim ' s book he notice a KS on his shoulder and got it tested and he knew) but yeah. Even if Freddie didn't officially know until spring of 1987. He must have felt suspicious about it by 86. I doubt before that. Also let's consider by 85 freddie had already settled down and had enough of the promiscuous nights. Jim got the virus from freddie. That's why he was lucky and the virus didn't progress to aids unlike freddie. Jim got the opportunity to undergo the hiv pills cocktails and the improvement of medicine. That's why he lived longer. I doubt had it been Jim who infected freddie things would've played the same for him. Before 1992 when the first retrovirus treatment came into market, more time with the virus mean less time of life. So according to how things played out I'm sure freddie infected jim by the time the disease was already long there hosting freddie's body. Plus Jim said he didn't wanna know because he knew if freddie had it then he did and he didn't want freddie to feel responsible for it or in a way making it feel like jim was more fortunate tha freddie had he not had it. It just didn't seem to fit the situation Freddie was in so he wanted to avoid telling him until a year later . |
| Fmercurio 09.09.2014 18:27 |
Also I'm sure by late 70s there's NO way he had it. I mean the possibilities were just not big enough for him to get hiv back in late 70s. Although the disease already existed in Africa it was still not considered a pandemic. Let alone be in the streets of london. The first hiv/aids cases as pandemics were dated in the beginning of the 1980s. 81 in USA to be more exact and then started spreading more worldwide. It's just the probabilities of Freddie being one of those very unique EXTREMELY unique and weird cases of having hiv already by the 70s is just unlikely. Also keep in my that though it takes normally 10 years for an hiv patient to develop aids NOWADAYS. It wasn't the same back then and certainly not on the early 80s. So just because he got aids by 87 doesn't mean he had hiv by 77. Freddie could've been living with hiv was 3 to 5 years. |
| Costa86 10.09.2014 04:33 |
Fmercurio wrote: Also I'm sure by late 70s there's NO way he had it. I mean the possibilities were just not big enough for him to get hiv back in late 70s. Although the disease already existed in Africa it was still not considered a pandemic. Let alone be in the streets of london. The first hiv/aids cases as pandemics were dated in the beginning of the 1980s. 81 in USA to be more exact and then started spreading more worldwide. It's just the probabilities of Freddie being one of those very unique EXTREMELY unique and weird cases of having hiv already by the 70s is just unlikely. Also keep in my that though it takes normally 10 years for an hiv patient to develop aids NOWADAYS. It wasn't the same back then and certainly not on the early 80s. So just because he got aids by 87 doesn't mean he had hiv by 77. Freddie could've been living with hiv was 3 to 5 years.I don't agree, and I think you're wrong also on a scientific level. The HIV pandemic was noticed in 1981, but this was just the consequence of the spread of the virus in the early to mid-70s. By the 70s it was already spreading like wildfire, but because of the long latency period, symptoms in those infected with HIV only became widely apparent to doctors in the early 80s. It's not correct when you say that only a few had it in the 70s - tens of thousands had it already, but they just didn't know it. So, to be clear - those who were infected in the early 70s started showing symptoms in the early 80s - those infected in the late 70s (indeed it was more likely to get infected in say 1979 than in 1972) showed symptoms in the late 80s (as our Freddie did). It is likely that by 1984 or '85 at the latest Freddie already had some light symptoms showing, meaning HIV had already progressed significantly. I think we can say almost certainly that, with a narrow margin of error of ±2 years, Freddie was infected between 1978 and 1981. If by late '86 he already had full-blown AIDS (which he probably did, as he had a KS lesion visible on his cheek - as evidenced by a photo of him coming back from a trip to Japan - and KS is USUALLY but not always demonstrative of AIDS, not just HIV infection), then he couldn't have likely been infected after '81. As to when he knew, it's also almost certain that he had a very good inkling that he wasn't well by 1985, possibly by 1984, and certainly by 1986 (Mary herself recently said he knew in '86 - not because he was tested - but through deduction and through his symptoms). The term "knew" is relative - like when a smoker of three packs a day for 60 years starts hacking up blood - he knows he has lung cancer, even before tests confirm it - but he isn't 100% certain. If I had to bet 100 quid on when Freddie contracted HIV, I'd say it was 1979 or 1980. If I had to choose just one year, it would be 1979. One last thing - HIV took on average ten years to become AIDS since the beginning, not nowadays. Nowadays HIV usually doesn't become AIDS, as HAART stops it. Ten years is the average latency period WITHOUT treatment. But this AIDS porn must really stop now. I'm sorry I'm contributing to it. |
| Zamidoo 10.09.2014 06:27 |
I'm sorry to be contributing as well, and have nothing to say on the 'how/from whom did Freddie get HIV' speculation... but for those who are claiming there was no HIV testing available in 1984, this isn't true. 1985 was when the first test was licensed. It isn't the same thing. Obviously, the ELISA test didn't just appear miraculously in 1985 out of nowhere, with no research or case studies, and there are lots of incidental evidence that testing was available earlier: link link (says testing available in Victoria, Australia, late 1984) link (published April, 1984, says test to be available within 6 months, people tested already for research) link link (see case 1) All the individual cases before ELISA was licensed wouldn't necessarily come up on 'AIDS/HIV timeline' google searches. Nothing to do with Freddie's personal testing experience(s), but just saying... Also, reading the POZ Forum long-term survivors section (one of the links is to a this forum) gives a lot of insight into the fear of testing positive that was around at that time, and why people may have chosen not to be tested... also quite a few say they were first diagnosed in 1984. I couldn't care less if Freddie was first tested in 1984 or not, but it isn't impossible as some seem to be saying, here. Now, die thread (and apologies again for letting it live another day). |
| Fmercurio 22.09.2014 14:39 |
He probably had hiv by 1984 already if he developed aids by 87. But i doubt he knew it until 86 where he started to suspect or by the confirmation in 87. It takes a really bad heart for someone to know they have hiv and keep having unprotected sex injecting others. I doubt Freddie knew by 1984. Let's remember hiv doesn't show physical changes most of the times until the immune system is decaying and is heading towards aids. You can look and feel normal and healthy while you have the virus. He probably started getting worried once some of his previous lovers have died of it by 86 and he was already with Jim (who freddie gave the disease to) and knew in 87 . After the diagnosis him and Jim used protection. So I really doubt he had hiv and knew it while infecting other people. |
| Fmercurio 22.09.2014 14:40 |
He probably had hiv by 1984 already if he developed aids by 87. But i doubt he knew it until 86 where he started to suspect or by the confirmation in 87. It takes a really bad heart for someone to know they have hiv and keep having unprotected sex injecting others. I doubt Freddie knew by 1984. Let's remember hiv doesn't show physical changes most of the times until the immune system is decaying and is heading towards aids. You can look and feel normal and healthy while you have the virus. He probably started getting worried once some of his previous lovers have died of it by 86 and he was already with Jim (who freddie gave the disease to) and knew in 87 . After the diagnosis him and Jim used protection. So I really doubt he had hiv and knew it while infecting other people. |
| Fmercurio 22.09.2014 14:40 |
He probably had hiv by 1984 already if he developed aids by 87. But i doubt he knew it until 86 where he started to suspect or by the confirmation in 87. It takes a really bad heart for someone to know they have hiv and keep having unprotected sex injecting others. I doubt Freddie knew by 1984. Let's remember hiv doesn't show physical changes most of the times until the immune system is decaying and is heading towards aids. You can look and feel normal and healthy while you have the virus. He probably started getting worried once some of his previous lovers have died of it by 86 and he was already with Jim (who freddie gave the disease to) and knew in 87 . After the diagnosis him and Jim used protection. So I really doubt he had hiv and knew it while infecting other people. |
| Fmercurio 22.09.2014 14:44 |
About the weight the only time Freddie looked fat to me was around the years 87-88 and it was because of the aids medication at that time it made you gain weight or more like swollen look rather than fat? He was naturally a thin man and very physical may I add. The only time he looked over weight was that time. |
| Martin Packer 23.09.2014 01:36 |
I keep reading that Freddie gave Jim AIDS. While it's indeed quite probable I don't think we can really say that. And actually I don't think I really want to. Remember "there's no one to blame, there's only victims" from about that time. |
| Day dop 23.09.2014 04:29 |
Fmercurio wrote: About the weight the only time Freddie looked fat to me was around the years 87-88 and it was because of the aids medication at that time it made you gain weight or more like swollen look rather than fat? He was naturally a thin man and very physical may I add. The only time he looked over weight was that time.It's not unusual for people to put on weight when they hit middle age. He'd started to put weight on before '87, look at Freddie in Rio 85. Not as thin as he was in the early years. I recall reading (in one of the books, maybe Jim Hutton's or Peter Freestones) about an article in The Sun where they took a swipe at Freddie in '86 for putting on a little weight too. |
| Vauxhall1 06.04.2015 15:43 |
It's been a year since anyone contributed to this thread but I agree that Freddie contracted the virus in the late 70's/early 80's. And by the time he was tested, he was full blown. Jim may have or may not have contracted it from Freddie, we won't know for sure but one thing I do think for sure is that Jim did NOT give the virus to Freddie. Sadly, Freddie was already infected with the virus and it progressed to full blown AIDS by the time he was tested. A few times I have read that Freddie states that it was his 13th Aids test that revealed he had it. So, given he stated that himself, he obviously had reason to test. He also stated himself that he had had thoughts that '' this one might be the one who gives it to me'' and he speaks of going into the shower and scrubbing himself, although he knows that it won't wash off and he clearly also knows by the time he makes that statement that its' a bodily fluid virus. Appears he still wasn't using condoms when he was taking those risks. Yes, I saw the documentary '' When Freddie met Kenny'' and there is quite a good timeline to do the math and figure out a time frame as to when Freddie contracted the virus. I have read other threads and postings and so many people are in denial about the entire issue. They clearly have the rose coloured glasses on when it comes to when and how and from whom Freddie contracted the virus from. Sadly, all 3 of the men who resided from Freddie died of AIDS, so someone, infected someone, whether it was Freddie to them or vice versa does not matter now. I believe they were a group of gay men who were indulging in very high risk behaviour at the pinnacle point - prior to much being known about it. So yes, I agree with posters who say Freddie became infected prior to 1985. Now, all we can do is be thankful that times have changed and that so much has been done toward controlling HIV and AIDS. |
| miraclesteinway 07.04.2015 07:34 |
By the time he was tested in 1987 he was full blown - remember people who are HIV positive take tests regularly to test viral load to assess treatments. He was almost definitely tested positive in 1985, so he probably had the virus in his body before then. It was a very sad time for a lot of people. If you want to know about the full impact of AIDS in the early 1980s then check out a film called 'We Were Here'. It documents the journey from 1981 to the present day, and there are some harrowing stories on it. It doesn't mention Freddie (as far as I remember) but it gives real and personal faces to the AIDS epidemic of the time. It's a little like the TB epidemic of La Boheme actually - some people died that suddenly. There are stories of people having a massive stroke in reaction to the treatment and dying before they get close the emergency room, other people developing the more 'classic' symptoms. It's upfront, up-close, personal and absolutely tragic. Most of the people infected in San Francisco at that time were involved in high risk behaviours - it doesn't really need to be said because they all know what they did and they know the results of their behaviour, and that's very sad. We all - every single one of us - do things which are irresponsible, knowingly and unknowingly, and we all have to pay for it. Sadly in this instance, people paid with their lives. The positive side to the story is that it shows an extraordinary love developing in the gay community at that time, an extraordinary togetherness that may not have been there otherwise. It shows how people will pull together in times of tragedy and uphold each other. It would be nice if it didn't take tragedy for this to happen, but it seems that it does. |
| Martin Packer 07.04.2015 09:17 |
And The Band Played On is also harrowing - and it DOES mention Freddie right at the end. |
| Costa86 08.04.2015 03:44 |
Martin Packer wrote: And The Band Played On is also harrowing - and it DOES mention Freddie right at the end.I watched 'And The Band Played On' a couple of months ago, and I don't remember Freddie ever being mentioned. I do recall that 'Play The Game' was playing during one of the scenes, when the two doctors/scientists walked into a bathhouse. You might be referring to the book though. |
| Martin Packer 08.04.2015 10:16 |
@Costa86 it might have been something added by the TV station when the movie was played. But I really don't know. |
| NickGreen 09.04.2015 11:45 |
I can confirm it has queen stuff in it... 18 mins in, the queen track 'play the game' is on the background..at the end freddie features in a montage of famous aids victims with music by elton john. There's my factoid of the day. |
| Moët Et Chandin 24.11.2017 18:24 |
Freddie already had HIV for at least 6 years by 1984, but had not yet developed AIDS, so I doubt he knew he had it then, as he probably felt mostly well. it was the following year, 1985, after learning of Rock Hudson's death, that he started to worry and was tested for the first time, and probably positive |
| raucousmonster 25.11.2017 10:44 |
Freddie had put on a bit of a belly during the Works shows and certainly by 1985. Not far by any stretch of the imagination but pudgy enough for it to be noticeable. All gone by the time of Live Aid of course. Was this age, a side effect of medication (for what, who knows?) or the result of a year off work and living it up in New York? He did seem to suffer from various minor ailments from 84 onwards. There's the throat issues on tour and in Sun City. This is a man who had been on tour in and off for over a decade with few problems. Yet The Works tour was nowhere near as strenuous compared to earlier tours. I also remember reading that a fan met Freddie at the I Want to Break Free shoot where Freddie complained of being tired all the time. Again at Live Aid he had throat problems (but still went on to kill on stage) but from this point on he remained completely faithful to Him (according to Mercury & Me iirc). So I reckon the early symptoms of a reduced immune system were kicking in around early 1984. Poor Freddie, like so many others, was infected before he knew there was anything to be infected by. |
| LOTV 28.11.2017 13:51 |
@raucousmonster Sorry to pick at your well meaning post but "over a decade with few problems" with regards to touring is totally inaccurate. He was plagued by problems all through his touring career and often performed (brilliantly) with various issues. Due to the way he sang and the effort he put into it he was constantly dealing with throat issues for a start. None of this had anything to do with HIV. |
| c.jory 28.11.2017 15:43 |
raucousmonster wrote: Freddie had put on a bit of a belly during the Works shows and certainly by 1985. Not fat by any stretch of the imagination but pudgy enough for it to be noticeable. All gone by the time of Live Aid of course. Was this age, a side effect of medication (for what, who knows?) or the result of a year off work and living it up in New York?He was living in Germany at this time; his boyfriend was a restaurateur, maybe that had something to do with it! And probably because he wasn't touring. He maybe looks *slightly* chunkier at Rio but it was just after Christmas...common problem haha. He didn't have steroid weight gain til 87/88; he looks different. |
| c.jory 28.11.2017 15:44 |
|
| LOTV 28.11.2017 16:50 |
captainjory wrote:I was pretty young at the time and I used Freddie's seemingly rude health to convince myself all the rumours were bullshit. I knew nothing about weight gain from steroid treatment.raucousmonster wrote: Freddie had put on a bit of a belly during the Works shows and certainly by 1985. Not fat by any stretch of the imagination but pudgy enough for it to be noticeable. All gone by the time of Live Aid of course. Was this age, a side effect of medication (for what, who knows?) or the result of a year off work and living it up in New York?He was living in Germany at this time; his boyfriend was a restaurateur, maybe that had something to do with it! And probably because he wasn't touring. He maybe looks *slightly* chunkier at Rio but it was just after Christmas...common problem haha. He didn't have steroid weight gain til 87/88; he looks different. Makes me so sad looking back, sad and frustrated. The press were real cunts too. |
| Mustafa IbraGame 12.05.2018 19:46 |
raucousmonster wrote: I also remember reading that a fan met Freddie at the I Want to Break Free shoot where Freddie complained of being tired all the timeYou got me interested! Where did you read about that, d'ya still have source or link on this? If true, it may have a great contribution to calculation on when Freddie's got the full blown AIDS. |
| Costa86 12.05.2018 20:43 |
What calculation? He had "full blown AIDS" (not a term which is even used much anymore) in 1987 - which is a certainty, given his medical records were reported multiple times as attesting to this. He might have been "full blown" by 1986, given he had KS on his face, but KS can appear at any time during an HIV infection, although it gets worse as AIDS progresses. And if you want to go full blown morbid, given what we know about the progression of the disease with the treatment available at the time, he'd have become HIV positive around 1979-1982, likely during one of the periods in those years when he was in New York. The first HIV test became available in 1985, which is when he had his first positive results and also started having the telltale symptoms. But by 1984 he'd probably have known he might have been in trouble, given he'd have noticed past lovers getting sick with HIV/AIDS symptoms, and might even have had a few symptoms himself. |
| dbrid 16.05.2018 15:22 |
So in relation to this topic, it claims in the Wikipedia article about the upcoming Bohemian Rhapsody movie that Freddie took the stage at Live Aid with the knowledge that he had a life threatening illness. How could this be? Did Freddie know he was HIV positive by the time of Live Aid? Seems a bit of a stretch of artistic license if the movie claims this. any thoughts? |
| mooghead 16.05.2018 16:54 |
They need to sell a film... |
| dbrid 16.05.2018 17:53 |
Yeah, I get that. Like I said, if that's not truly the case, that's quite a jump in artistic license. |
| mooghead 16.05.2018 19:21 |
It is a biopic. They twist the truth and use artistic licence. Making a profit is more important than the truth. Someone here is complaining about elbow angles. |
| stevendabudgie 16.05.2018 20:45 |
According to Mary Austin, Freddie knew in 1985 |
| dbrid 16.05.2018 21:16 |
Hmmmm... before or after July 13, 1985 I wonder. |
| stevendabudgie 16.05.2018 21:55 |
If the dates are right he must have known since early 1985 link His doctor advised him not to Live Aid because he had a throat infection. Didn't he have the flu around that time and have to be coaxed into doing the Magic tour? |
| waunakonor 17.05.2018 05:09 |
mooghead wrote: Someone here is complaining about elbow angles.Come on now. Complaining about elbow angles is clearly different from complaining about a movie pretending that Freddie didn't know he had HIV when he definitely did. Quit being dense. And just because ignoring important details is a thing that happens in biopics doesn't make this okay. We should want better instead of being totally satisfied with the half-baked crap we're getting. |
| Day dop 19.05.2018 04:38 |
"Freddie knew he had HIV in 1984?" No. |
| miraclesteinway 19.05.2018 11:55 |
Well, as I said before, a friend of my family was present in the room when Freddie's blood was tested. She claimed it was about 1984-1985, and she told me the story in 2000-01 or thereabouts. Remember, someone saying it could have been 1984-85, it could also have been 1986. People don't tend to be that exact with dates when looking back, unless perhaps arguing a point on a forum and searching google for answers to certain things. When she told me, there wasn't a smart phone in someones pocket upon which we could check the information on google... in fact smartphones hadn't become mainstream by that point and the connection was still dialup in our house.... Anyway point is, no, I can't tell you if Freddie knew before LiveAid, although our friend did recount watching LiveAid knowing he was ill and feeling heartbroken. That memory could be her watching LiveAid after the fact, or even watching it after he died, and somehow the whole thing has become conflated in her mind. There have been comments on the forum regarding how long Freddie had been infected, but the truth is that we can't know. We can't know at what point anyone became infected, we can only know from what point someone tested to what point they developed full blown AIDS. There are articles on health websites saying that some people can enter stage 2 of the infection (the silent stage, asymptomatic stage) and remain in good health for many years, while others become ill within a matter of months. These days people are healthier for longer not just because of the medications, but because the virus itself has evolved to become weaker so that it doesn't kill the host so quickly. Brian May said in 1991, on British TV (the interview is on youtube, Brian and Roger 1 week later, I watched it when it was being aired) that Freddie had lived with the illness for four or five years, but again, that could mean 6 or 7, or it could mean simply from the point he knew he had developed full blow AIDS. The whole thing is very sad, we missed out on nearly 30 years of great music because of the illness, and Freddie, along with almost 40 million other people, have had their lives cut short because of it.... and it's still out there killing people right now. Let's not actually forget that. Oh I need to not be so preachy at times.... sorry! |
| dbrid 19.05.2018 16:20 |
Thanks for the great response. Certainly makes a lot of sense. More specifically I should have asked, is it likely that Brian and Roger would "bend" the timeline of Freddie's awareness to make it seem he knew before LiveAid (if in fact he did NOT know beforehand) to add drama to the movie? If so, it would seem a bit unethical to me to alter a fact for a plot point. But as you stated, if no one is 100% clear on when exactly Freddie knew I suppose some artistic licence is acceptable. |
| Costa86 20.05.2018 11:25 |
Look, HIV was discovered in 1983 (by French scientists) and 1984 (confirmed by US scientists) - that's when they found out that AIDS is caused by a virus. Before then, nobody knew for sure what was destroying AIDS patients' immune systems. The first HIV test became available in March 1985. It is impossible for Freddie to have "known" he had HIV before 1985. The only thing he could have known is that he might have had certain symptoms which were associated with HIV/AIDS - but we don't know if he had any such symptoms by 1984. But in 1984 the disease inside him would not have progressed to the extent that doctors would be able to tell him "you have HIV". In the case of more advanced AIDS patients, they could tell from their symptoms that they had AIDS, and hence HIV (once it was discovered), before an HIV anti-body test became available. miraclesteinway's story is credible, and it would have happened in 1985. Given that by 1985: 1. Freddie had been in a high risk group for many years - homosexual with many sex partners 2. Some ex-lovers were probably sick/dying 3. He possibly had some tell-tale symptoms It is practically 100% certain that he was tested for HIV in 1985, once a test became available. And that's when he would have started getting the first in a multitude of positive test results, which would have also included the odd false-negative. |
| Mustafa IbraGame 20.05.2018 15:20 |
Costa86 wrote: miraclesteinway's story is credible, and it would have happened in 1985. Given that by 1985: 1. Freddie had been in a high risk group for many years - homosexual with many sex partners 2. Some ex-lovers were probably sick/dying 3. He possibly had some tell-tale symptomsYeah, he got throat bleeding (since the early 80's and lesions or warts in his mouth by 1984 (the latter can't be proved or disproved since only Barbara Valentin told about these growths and she is in the grave now). And also a constant fatigue, if that cool story of anonymous fan according to what he heard on the set of IWTBF from Fred is true. But what i hope everyone's here wants to know it's a year (and even better, a month) on which Freddie got HIV. Day is not so important as he almost surely got repeated sexual contacts on the course of some next weeks (being in New York,supposedly). Also the timeline of living with HIV / AIDS seems quite personal, but depends on what? Grete Rask and Gaetan Dugas lived on about ten years without practically any treatment. And Klaus Nomi (Jobriath also) died within 5-6 years from supposed date of infection. If the first, of course, hadn't catch the virus while still living in his native Austria in first half of 70's. |
| Invisible Woman 20.05.2018 16:43 |
I don't believe it. I can't believe that someone knows something so seriously and hide that from the people in house and from his partner. And the other thing, when he got the results of that alleged test in 1984, 1985 or 1986, didn't one of the doctors tell him that he must use protection, because without protection can endanger another person? Surely doctors not failed to tell this fact to him. I don't think that he was such a person who would consciously spread the virus to other people, maybe I'm stupid but I don't believe it. He must have suspected something but I don't believe that he knew it before 1987. |
| Mustafa IbraGame 20.05.2018 18:24 |
Invisible Woman wrote: And the other thing, when he got the results of that alleged test in 1984, 1985 or 1986, didn't one of the doctors tell him that he must use protection, because without protection can endanger another person?Even told so, he may behave selfish or self-denial to the disease. And don't forget that Hiv/Aids wasn't studied well at those times. In 1985-86 it was supposed in medical circles that only 5 to 20% of people with HIV will develop a full blown AIDS. he may thought of himself being out this percentage... |
| Costa86 22.05.2018 13:28 |
It's probably best not to enter into moralistic considerations when it comes to mega rockstars in the 1970s and 80s. They were different times, different societal norms, etc. If we enter too deeply into Freddie Mercury's behaviour off stage - such as trying to understand whether he did or didn't practice safe sex after knowing he had HIV - I'm sure some of us will find things they are not comfortable with. I think it's pointless to delve into that. We can't understand it fully now, living in 2018 and knowing what we know about illness, society, etc. |
| Saint Jiub 23.05.2018 01:15 |
"It's probably best not to enter into moralistic considerations ... They were different times, different societal norms, etc." I drove a Volkswagon in the 70's when I was a teenager. My dad and mom both owned Volkswagons. Therefore, I am a Nazi and a "clean diesel" polluter. link link |
| Costa86 24.05.2018 15:13 |
"70s" not "70's". "70's" means "of the 70s". One of my pet peeves. |
| Saint Jiub 25.05.2018 03:19 |
Oops ... link |
| raucousmonster 29.05.2018 09:19 |
raucousmonster wrote: I also remember reading that a fan met Freddie at the I Want to Break Free shoot where Freddie complained of being tired all the time You got me interested! Where did you read about that, d'ya still have source or link on this? If true, it may have a great contribution to calculation on when Freddie's got the full blown AIDS. Wish I could remember the source though I think it was none other than Jim Jenkins who was the fan in question. I'm sure a robust Google would find the article. In terms of an Aids timeline I always felt Freddie picked up the disease in New York in thecesrly 80s. However Tony Gaston died years before Freddie (1986) iirc so he might well have had the virus in 1979 when he and Freddie hooked up. Not saying Tony was the one who infected Freddie necessarily because it could have been someone even before this. But if Tony does only 7 years after he and Freddie hook up your have to say there's a fair chance he had the virus or that the virus was in Brighton/the UK at that time when Freddie was at full throttle. |
| Holly2003 29.05.2018 10:53 |
It's not even close Halloween yet the ghouls are out in force ... |
| emrabt 29.05.2018 11:35 |
Sounds like the movie is going to adjust things to happen about a year earlier. Probably because it ends at Live aid and they want an Oscar scene. |
| Stardust Parade 30.05.2018 02:16 |
Why do people still obsess on when Freddie got AIDS? People are already complaining that his AIDS diagnoses won't be included in the movie ffs. |
| Ivo-1976 30.05.2018 11:45 |
As far as I know this has been discussed over and over. Freddie found out he had HIV/AIDS in 1987. Several sources confirmed this. In the years before 1987, he must have been very worried and uncertain about his future. AIDS spread fast in the gay community and some of Freddie's friends and past lovers got sick and/or passed away. As a result, Freddie moved back to London and changed his lifestyle in 1985. Unfortunately it was already too late. He might very well have had some smaller fysical problems before 1987 because of HIV/AIDS, but tests were still unreliable back then. |
| Nellie Bly 12.11.2018 04:09 |
Seems as if Jim and Marys descriptions of his death are totally different... Sorry so late to this convo |
| Sweetandtenderhooligan 03.12.2018 18:45 |
Nellie, Mary wasn't even there when he died, so why would she have an account? |
| Queen Popinjay 28.05.2019 02:05 |
I'm not going to claim to personally know Freddie or Barbara or Jim or Mary or Nicolai or anyone else mentioned or involved. My guess as to when he first either knew he had HIV or at least suspected it would be whatever year it was that he didn't want Barbara to come near him when he cut himself and bled. If he didn't know for sure at that time, it only makes sense that he suspected it because why else wouldn't he want her to get near his blood? I would not sink in any way that Jim was the one who gave it to him. I think he had it long before he met Jim. As for those who are saying he couldn't have had it in 1984 or 1985 because he looked at his most fit during that time, including at Live Aid, that wouldn't matter. HIV and AIDS has an incubation time of approximately 10 years. So if he was diagnosed let's just say in 1987 with full-blown AIDS, she most likely had it since the late 70s, maybe early 80s. You don't start appearing like you are deathly sick until much much later! You get possibly a few symptoms in the beginning. Then while the disease incubates in your body, you don't actually have outward symptoms. Or most people don't anyway. So he could have looked as perfectly fit as he did at Live Aid and still have had it by then. No doubt. |
| doughnut 29.05.2019 10:41 |
queen popinjay I wouldn't base anything on the word of Barbara. |
| Metropolis 06.06.2019 00:29 |
I'm pretty sure he contracted back in 1982, because he looked ill on Saturday Night Live in their last performance in America. |
| bucsateflon 06.06.2019 07:45 |
You should keep your female intuition reserved for whos pregnant or not...it doesn't work for HIV/AIDS the same |
| Costa86 06.06.2019 11:07 |
The first HIV test became available in 1984, which is in all likelihood the year that Freddie took his first HIV test. He’d have taken it several times, because false positives and negatives were common at the time. Sometimes he might have gotten a false negative, giving him hope that the positive tests might have been wrong. By 1985 or 1986 he’d have started developing symptoms. We know for sure that he had Kaposi’s sarcoma on his face in autumn 1986 as it is clearly visible in photos taken during his trip Japan. In 1987, he has a blemish on his back biopsied, and this proved he has KS, which in turn resulted in his doctors’ diagnosis of what used to be called “full blown AIDS”. From what we know about the disease and how long it takes from infection to progress to AIDS (i.e. CD4 T-cell count has fallen to a sufficient degree that severe immunosuppresion starts, leading to the tell-tale signs such as KS, and then ultimately pneumocystis pneumonia - which is what killed Freddie - and other deadly diseases), he’d have been infected in the late 1970s to early 1980s. Most likely he was infected in New York, one of the centres of HIV transmission, along with San Francisco, in the early 80s. If you look at the dates he was in New York in the 70s and 80s, you’ll have strong possibilities on when he got infected. |
| Galileo1564 06.06.2019 16:32 |
Costa how did you diagnose Freddie with PCP? |
| Costa86 12.06.2019 11:25 |
It says so on his death certificate. He died on bronchopneumonia, which in an AIDS victim is almost certainly pneumocystis pneumonia. |
| Galileo1564 21.06.2019 04:13 |
Nope. Bronchopneumonia is almost certainly not pneumocystis. It’s almost certainly some other bug, and maybe just garden variety bacterial pneumonia. Bronchopneumonia is just a radiology term that describes what is seen on an x-ray. It doesn’t say anything about what bug is causing the pneumonia. It just says where the infection is. And that’s the wrong place for Pneumocystis. I was being sarcastic in my above post. And now I kind of regret it because I don’t want to get into a debate about what bug killed Freddie. It doesn’t matter, and it feels creepy. But you talk a lot about this subject, so I suppose it interests you. But you say things that reveal limits to what you know. The testing situation in the 80s for asymptomatic people at risk was a very bad and precarious situation. It’s really not how you describe it at all. The licensed tests were designed to get HIV out of donated blood, not to help people at risk. There were gay groups opposed to the test and who tried to get its release blocked, at least in the US, as they feared it could be abused. The atmosphere in those years was pretty horrible, there was a lot of ugliness and talk of quarantine. Not only that, but the meaning of a positive antibody test in an asymptomatic person was controversial as to whether it meant the person was infected or not. And come on who says Freddie got tested anyway? Lesley Ann Jones? Anyway as long as he was still playing the field, why get tested. It takes a while to seroconvert, and in any case you could get infected the day after you test, and if you test positive there is nothing you can do about it. At the time it was thought that only a small percentage of people testing positive would ever get ill. This scenario of Freddie feeling fine but going for repeated testing makes absolutely no sense at all. They were measuring antibodies, not virus. But whatever. You’ve related this story before so I guess you’re convinced of it. If you want to know what that era was like, there are books you can read. This picture you paint is not how it was. False positives/negatives were not a major concern. There were lots of other greater concerns that surrounded testing. |
