| aaronmcg 12.10.2008 16:55 |
Hi guys, I am just starting to learn guitar and I was wondering does anybody know of any low price Brian May style guitars, cant afford the official BM Red Special yet. Thanks |
| Matias Merçeauroix 12.10.2008 17:23 |
Well, I guess you should save for a Brian May guitar. I think there's no point in buying a cheap guitar because you still don't have the money to buy a proper Brian May guitar... I mean, save the money! Meanwhile, you might as well mess around a little with your guitar wiring, it can get you a lot closer to Brian's sound. If you don't know how to do it, ask somebody to do it for you, it's not really hard. Cheers, Hor |
| Penetration_Guru 12.10.2008 19:44 |
There's always the mini-may - good for practising, right shape, cheap.... |
| john_john211 12.10.2008 19:49 |
I have a brian may guitar i wish to sell for arounf £400 should you be interested at all. |
| john bodega 13.10.2008 03:12 |
Buy any guitar, even a cheap one. Develop the sound you make with your fingers before throwing money down on a good instrument. You will thank yourself for it later; the fingers are a very underrated part of a players sound. |
| john_john211 13.10.2008 03:45 |
maybe so but i made the mistake of having cheap guitars and it kind of hinders you a little too. Maybe ok for practicing but to stand any chance of sounding good you need something of a fair standard because that in itself could prove frustrating on top of learning and trying to sound half decent. |
| bhm0129ad 13.10.2008 09:08 |
A BAD workman ALWAYS blames his tools |
| MercuryArts 13.10.2008 11:41 |
A bad worker alsways blames his tools is so true! Good one. Seriously, you can spend $200.00 on the Fender Squier Strat Pack. Includes everything you need to get started. The quality of the guitar is quite good. Especially compared to when I was starting out. Back then an inexpensive guitar,aka: cheap, was a bad guitar. Todays "starter guitars" are head & shoulders above what I had to start out on. Plus, as you get better over time & upgrade to a better guitar such as a BMG RS, you'll have your starter to learn the inner workings of most guitars. |
| john bodega 13.10.2008 14:05 |
Indeed! I also forgot to say in my last post; don't bother looking for a Brian May copy that isn't made by Brian May guitars. All of the good ones (read : not crap) are more expensive than the BMG ones anyway. You might as well just save for the official copy. |
| Hikara 13.10.2008 19:41 |
The cheapest I've seen his guitars sold (the Signature ones) was $700 on musiciansfriend.com when they were having a sale. (That wasn't very long ago, maybe they are still having it.) Still tis pricey though. |
| Adam Baboolal 13.10.2008 21:36 |
I really have to agree with those saying that it's all about how you learn and play, rather than the instrument that you learn on. I started out on a small 3/4 acoustic with steel strings. I think the steel strings and stiffness of this cheap guitar (£35 if I'm not mistaken) made me work harder to get what I wanted out of the guitar. Not long after, I picked up a nicer (more expensive acoustic) and because my fingers were strengthened by working harder on the cheaper/stiffer guitar, I found it easier to achieve what I wanted on my new one which had a thinner neck and more accessible neck. After that, I got an electric guitar (Squire strat). That's the guitar I used on the "A Winter's Tale" track uploaded here on QZ. It was a nice step to take and felt pretty cool to have my first electric guitar. After a few years, I picked up a nice Hohner ATX which I still use and have recently upgraded with my spare Burns pickups. Trying to play the Squire strat after playing the Hohner...well...the squire is a pig to play! But the point is, it was cheap, it worked and sounded pretty good and I learnt on it. So, overall, buy a cheap/decent guitar to begin with and don't fall into the trap where you may be led to buy something like the Brian guitar starting out. Personally, I'd buy something like the Squire and then once you get good, use the allure of the official Brian copy as your goal to reach. To me, that just seems more fun! I know it certainly made me learn how to get the most out of the equipment I had to hand and because I was a Brian fan, I looked into how to achieve that sound before the Burns guitars came about. It was in 2006 (around 9 years since I started playing guitar) that I managed to get the money needed for a Brian May 2006 (£440) model guitar. I still enjoy using that guitar because of, not just the sound but, the path I took to get to that guitar. Learning the inferior stuff to begin with, helped me. I know people who started on great guitars that don't seem to have the strength in their fingers (or knowledge) that I do. At least, I think that's something to do with starting on hard acoustic strings. And isn't it true that when you get something handed to you that makes things easier, you try a little less?? :) Hope you don't mind my rant! Adam. |
| john bodega 14.10.2008 02:59 |
I was overcharged (I think) for my Burns guitar. The shop was asking for $1800 Australian, thankfully we were able to knock a couple hundred off. I suppose I could've held on for a while longer, and gotten it cheaper from eBay or something. But I played it in the shop, I found phasing settings that had loads of possibilities in them, I fell in love with the thing! I haven't been so taken with a guitar since Mum let me have a (brief) go on my late grandfather's Hofner President. In hindsight I'm glad I went with that guitar anyway, price notwithstanding. I've heard horror stories about the Burns and I seem to have lucked out with this one. It's never failed me; every tuning woe it's ever had was down to me fiddling too much during a song. I just got it out of it's case after more than a month in storage and it was still in tune. I love this guitar. Actually, I'd like to add a bit of advice that I've foolishly ignored in my own travels; don't buy a guitar you haven't played first. This year I've bought a Variax and an Epiphone Casino, and both were bought without ever touching them (the Casino was shipped in from the US, so all I saw was some photos!). It's a much smarter move to have a hold of the guitar you're going to put money down on, and to make sure that you can physically use the thing! In my case, I haven't been bitten (yet) for ignoring this practice. The Variax feels and plays like a dirty whore, but I've A/B'd it with more than a couple of the guitars it emulates and it's good enough to record with (though I don't think I'd ever gig with it). And the Casino was a great find, at almost half the price my local shop was charging (I think we Australians get a bit ripped off!). I dunno if I've said this before, but my last offering is ; have the guitar with you as often as possble. Play it while watching the telly, play it in bed, play play play. Don't do what my nephew does, and 'wait for lessons' or practice for an arbitrary amount of time for every day. He's a musical kid, but I do think that treating guitar like juggling or algebra can hamper your progress. It can (and should!) be a much more involved and rewarding experience. |
| aaronmcg 24.10.2008 16:26 |
does anybody know where i can buy a cheap brian may style guitar, i seen a really cheap one about £120 a month or so ago on ebay but cant rem the brand of it, if anyone can think of the name of it drop me a line, thanks |
| Penetration_Guru 24.10.2008 17:19 |
You want us to remember the name of a guitar you saw on ebay? Is it your shoelace tie-er's day off? |
| Marcos Napier 24.10.2008 20:53 |
One point that is always missed: buying the same guitar as the musician x or y uses won't make you sound like him, if this is your main purpose. It might happen, but don't expect it to happen all the time. Spending a lot of money in an expensive instrument as a starter is much more frustrating than starting with cheap models. With cheap models, you can "grow", and while getting better at it, you can notice how the instrument itself is limiting your technique or not (if it's not limiting you at all, fine). Buying a very expensive instrument won't make you play better than you actually do in any time of your '"playing life", if you don't have the desire to play better or the right tools to play better - good teaching is one of them for example (not that important, but you need some kind of reference). I had some teaching in the beginning, and when it started to get boring and technical and I noticed that I had no real use for it, I quit. Also the advice of playing something before buying is very important. Being comfortable with a certain model is very good to keep you interested. A guitar that will make your hands ache after 5 mins of playing for sure will make you lose the desire to play it often, which is necessary in the beginning. Zebonka: the Variax is that bad because of the feel of the guitar while playing (a thick neck for example) or because of technical issues, like a delay in processing the sounds? I heard that it has a delay that sometimes gets very annoying, and I think it was a delay in the notes (latency), not in a patch change (ex. switching guitars) like in some old pedalboards... |
| bhm0129ad 25.10.2008 10:24 |
I own a burns Brian, and I am very happy with it. I have no intention of trying to either sound or play like Brian on it, or at all. I only know how to play about 12 Queen songs and three Brian solos. This is because I am a musician, not a sed get who wants to be someone else ( who has already been, and still IS). I have owned my BHM0129 since dec '01, and during the next three years, made three albums with my brother, who sadly died last year aged 29.( anyone interested can go to youtube channel InMemorandum07 where I have posted SOME of our original tunes. they were very much learning curve songs, and are not meant to be 'great' or meaningful, well most of them....) However, I FIRST played guitar on a Japanese Westone ( which I sadly do not have anymore), and this was a terrible guitar to play, the neck was soooo thin and small ( my fingertips are far from thin or dainty) and it hurt to buggery playing it. I started recording on makeshift equipment I didn't become a 'good' guitarist on it, I progressed and improved, but only so far, as I hated the sound and when the Burns was first released in Oct '01, it was only a couple of months before I could afford to pay for my pre-ordered one ( I was the second person in Leeds to buy one). I also bought an 8-track digital portable recording unit and stepped up my recording and at this time my Bro began to play ( on his new Les Paul) and the recordings on you tube were made. I know that those tunes would not even be that good if I had not 'broken' myself in to the guitar with the cheap Westone, and since 2004, I have become a much better guitarist than I was in those youtube recordings, only I don't record anymore ( too painful at the moment). So, in summary, buy a cheap beaten up guitar to LEARN on, for two or three years play it to death, get blisters, callouses and sores on your fingers and hands, then when you buy your Brian ( or whatever is your dream guitar) you will be able to move from 'I can play the guitar' to 'I am a guitarist' |
| aaronmcg 25.10.2008 13:07 |
**** off guru if u have nothing constructive to say, pisses me off people who hide behind screens, i just asked does anybody know the name of these models as there cant be to many bm copys with that price range. manners doesnt cost anything |
| john bodega 25.10.2008 15:11 |
Quoting doesn't seem to work for me at the moment, so this is aimed at Marcos Napier - The Variax... I dunno how to put it. It feels cheap in my hands. I once owned a $170 Strat copy, built of the cheapest woods I've ever seen in a guitar. (in fact, when it was smashed at the end of our act, it had all kinds of white fiber and stringy looking stuff in there, so God only knows what that was made of). The Variax feels a little like that guitar. Maybe a bit better actually, but anyhow. Having said that, I have no complaints about the sounds. I did an A/B test of the Variax versus my Casino (as it was the only guitar I owned that was emulated by the Variax). link During the dry tests (that is, no effects thrown on top) it sounds pretty decent to me. The only problem I've ever had with the Variax as far as the modelled sounds go? There's an irritating warble that sometimes comes up if you're playing on a 12 string setting. I know what the sound is; it's the pitch shifter trying to keep up with notes that are confusing it. Usually I get this sound if I strike two notes at once while using a pitch shifter on a pedal (like my ME-50). Frankly I'm annoyed that it's present on the Variax, but it doesn't happen often enough to really be a problem. Where was I..... ! The Variax isn't bad at all, seriously. I've played better and I've played worse; it's merely a good piece of kit to have around for experimenting, or as a spare guitar. It's definitely one to have while you're saving up for other guitars, put it that way! I've even made a setting for the Bohemian Rhapsody solo (I played a gig with a tribute band earlier this year and the thought occured to me that I didn't have a spare BM guitar on hand....) I might demo that eventually. The thing is, the Variax doesn't model the Tri-Sonic pickup. Off the top of my head, I got the closest sound by using a Gretsch Duo Jet body (it has acoustic chambers) and Toaster pickups out of phase. It wouldn't fool Brian in a blindfold test, but it's a servicable alternative if my Red Special ever blows up on stage. |
| Marcos Napier 25.10.2008 15:50 |
I have a POD2 and it has some Brian settings in that software they use (although I barely use it, too many wirings, I like to use my own settings anyway), but it's not that perfect. The Vox emulator is good for replicating the typical distortion even with my cheap Aria, mostly for the rythm. One thing that I've never seen any of these emulators or whatever they are called is that they never can replicate that "growl" of the RS. Probably it's not just a case of the RS itself, but the Deacy amp, treble boosters and all that... I know exactly what you say about the 12-strings messed up sound. I have also one ME-10 and the pitch when used to emulate a higher octave and try (try) to sound like a 12-string is always too fake, if you use it to lower the octave it's a little better. It's an old pedalboard, I think that the pitch technology probably improved since it was released. Sometimes I even use a preset I did for playing the guitar in Eb as my Aria has one of these Floyd Rose locking stuff and it's a pain to retune it, but it has a relatively long delay. Once you figure it, you can even use it, but it's not for all songs (chords do get messed up a lot). The ME-10 also have a fabric preset that sounds kind of an organ, using the pitch and some odd pre-delay settings, and it sounds great... if you just play an Am chord. Anything else is just pure noise. Shame that I was mostly interested in a Variax exactly for the 12 strings... or maybe the 335... |
| Penetration_Guru 25.10.2008 20:07 |
aaronmcg wrote: **** off guru if u have nothing constructive to say.....manners doesnt cost anything Hypocrite |
| john bodega 26.10.2008 00:40 |
If you're in the Variax for the 12 strings and the 335, don't be discouraged. The 335 sound is quite close. Having said that, I dunno how much a Variax costs where you are, but I got my Casino for less. And that was with international shipping! You can get a Casino or a Sheraton for a good price pretty easily. |
| Marcos Napier 26.10.2008 11:51 |
Here (Brazil) it's absolutely impossible to buy one of these in stores, they are overpriced to the max. A Variax that is about $600 in USA (sometimes even less in some cheaper models) here is sold for about $2500. A RS copy then is out of question... it would be better to buy it overseas and pay for the taxes, will be cheaper. I remember once contacting Burns and asking how much would it cost, and they said $1200 PLUS shipping which is a very nice deal... this would turn to something around $3000 the most with taxes here. At stores... didnt even see one so far but I'm almost sure that it will be over $4000. I bought my POD at Ebay, costed me half of what it would cost it at any store. Used, but it's fine. |
| john bodega 27.10.2008 02:34 |
Wow, I hadn't even thought of that :/ Do you know many people who go with such prices regardless, or do most people import stuff? |
| Marcos Napier 27.10.2008 14:56 |
We have high import taxes (for goods from $50 to $100 it's 60%, above that it's 100% on the final price), and the stores that import them not only have these taxes included but their own profits added to these prices... even if sometimes these instruments and gear arent exactly "imported" if you know what I mean. Cheap stratos that cost about $500 here are sold for $1500 or more. Real stratos, USA? $3000. Gibsons? Better not think about it. I still regret not having the money to buy that 68' Jaguar once... $800. Worse than that is that the taxes are applied to everything, including shipping costs (!). So if something costs me $100 but I want it tomorrow and decide to have it by FedEx or something fast (and expensive...), add this to the overall cost and the taxes on that... no chance. Sometimes we are a bit lucky and it is not taxed (don't ask me how and why, it just happens), but it's a risk and it's pure luck and guessing. Once I bought a single CD (it's better to buy one at a time) and wasn't taxed, a friend of mine bought the same and was taxed. For guitars that are usually a large package, it will probably caught the attention at the custom, and it will probably be taxed. Although... once I bought one mini-keyboard to use as a controller in my PC, and was already expecting taxes... I bought it from a store in Germany, and its box was relatively huge... but no taxes! My guess? The invoice was all in German, and they couldn't translate it and figure what should be taxed. I have noticed that whenever I buy something from Europe, there are less chances of taxes than from USA, this is what made me get very interested in getting a RS directly from Burns. If I buy the same at any american store, chances of being taxed are much higher I guess. |
| Marcos Napier 27.10.2008 15:02 |
I forgot: with pedalboards and gear like pedals etc. it's even worse. I bought my POD for $200 I think (final cost was about $350 with taxes/shipping etc.) but here it costed $800 at any store at that time. The stores probably know that even if they import something expensive and "exclusive", there always will be someone that will buy it no matter the prices... |
| Micrówave 27.10.2008 15:24 |
About a year ago, they were blowing out the Variax for $300. I bought it for the tuning features. This has turned out to be a pretty good deal for me. But I do not play it live or record with it. It's strictly a practice guitar for me or for rehearsals and such. The Sitar isn't bad, again, if you don't want to bring 3 or 4 guitars to practice. |
| Marcos Napier 27.10.2008 16:40 |
I don't see what's the difference in these more expensive models of the Variax and if I would get one, definitely would be that cheapest model (that seems to have disappeared since it was discontinued I think, they just have the model 600 and higher now). I guess if what is really important (the sound modeling) is done regardless of wood that was used, how it's built, neck thickness, whatever, all these "extras" aren't really necessary, they are mostly cosmetic I think. The RS was built from a fireplace after all... Interesting to notice that most of the people that I've seen making comments about the Variax is that they all use them as a recording guitar basically, and I think I've never seen any known guitarist using one live (although I might have seen some thinking it was a Danelectro). |
| john bodega 28.10.2008 01:00 |
Yeah, I'm personally wary of using the Variax in a live environment. I've jammed with it at a decent volume, and it's taken a couple of knocks, but I'm still cautious. Where possible I record with my Red Special and my Casino, but I did a track using the Variax's Telecaster setting once, and it went down very well with my pal (who worships the Tele like no one I've met). I'm not sure what the point of the 'higher end' Variax is, though. Aside from the addition of the vibrato, I don't really think the body wood is going to have a huge impact on an instrument where the sound is modelled. Maybe they feel nicer and play nicer acoustically, who knows. I think the Variax as a concept is sound, but they missed the boat in a few areas. On the one I've got, you can only model a 12 string on 3 guitar bodies (2 acoustics, and a Ric-360 body). Surely it wouldn't be too hard for them to have let you chuck 12 strings on any guitar body you could choose from? Also, I think the tunings should work a little differently when you do go into 12 string mode. I wanted to play "Hear My Train A Comin'", in that low C tuning that Jimi does on the 12 string. Unfortunately I couldn't just make a preset for that - I had to go into 12 string mode and then manually tune the instrument down. Not cool, guys - surely we could have a setting wherein all '12' strings can have their note adjusted. Imagine being able to tune the thing to a raga or something. I should make guitars. |
| Marcos Napier 28.10.2008 09:38 |
If the 12-string modeling is based on pitch shifts, probably it can be easy to model other 12-string guitars (Gibson doubleneck anyone?). But... if the tuning is based on the pitch shifting, it might be a bit complicated for them to let you play with alt tunnings at the same tme it's trying to make it sound an octave higher... not really impossible, as it seems that it lets you tune it, but it just not store the preset? The sitar is probably done with some weird flanging settings. I remember playing a bit with some flanger settings in the ME-10 and getting some interesting sounds, of course far from the real thing but it can trick some ears (like Brian did in Jealousy). |
| Fireplace 30.10.2008 12:15 |
Zebonka12 wrote:
I'm not sure what the point of the 'higher end' Variax is, though. Aside from the addition of the vibrato, I don't really think the body wood is going to have a huge impact on an instrument where the sound is modelled.
Maybe they feel nicer and play nicer acoustically, who knows.
Does that mean there is no difference in the sound modelling between the low-end and high-end Variaxes? Better playability would hardly explain the big difference in price. |
| Marcos Napier 30.10.2008 15:04 |
Seems so, as a body of a strato can't "emulate" a sound of a Gibson and vice-versa, and a hollow body won't make it sound like a full body. All the sustain probably is done by processing, according to the preset that was chosen. |