QueenZone discussion #829619
Request: Queen unreleased in the '70's
| John S Stuart 19.07.2006 10:17 |
Now that I have the bit between my teeth again, I am interested, at the moment, in unreleased material dating from the 1970's. Below I list the uncited Wikipedia enteries, but there must be other sources. Who can help me find out as much as we can, without raiding the vaults - and what else is rumoured to be out there? Who wrote these Wikipedia enteries? Does anyone know the website where I can check against the registered authors or copyrighted writers of the tracks? If you do know of any rumoured tracks - who was the source, where did the rumour come from? The idea is to pan among the dirt, until we find some gold nuggets. I know it is imperfect, and will take a lot of digging, but, at least it is an attempt. |
| John S Stuart 19.07.2006 10:17 |
Queen II According to unconfirmed sources at Wikipedia.com: Unreleased songs from these sessions include John Deacon's first song, titled 'Fly By Night', as well as two songs called 'Deep Ridge' (by Brian) and 'Surrender To The City' (by Freddie). It has been suggested that 'Surrender To The City' was written by Freddie as an early (or working title) for the tail end section of 'March Of The Black Queen' (which was at one time a separate track), because it begins with the section: "Forget your sing a-longs and your lullabies", and comes from the line: "Surrender to the city of the fireflies..." Initial ideas for 'Brighton Rock' and 'The Prophets Song' were laid down during these sessions. Queenzone 19 July 2006: When asked “Is/Was there EVER any tracks for Queen II called ‘Deep Ridge’, and/or ‘Surrender To The City’, the Queen archivist replied: ‘Not that I know of. Never seen mention of any such tracks. Sheer Heart Attack According to unconfirmed sources at Wikipedia.com: Along with 'Sheer Heart Attack', several further songs were recorded during these sessions: 'Psycho Legs', an early version of 'Death On Two Legs', was recorded, along with a track by John Deacon called 'Young And Crazy' (not related to 'Tenement Funster'). Other titles of songs include 'Rollin' On', 'Between The Punches', 'Several Saturday Nights', 'The Man In The Mirror', and a lengthy jam called 'Brian's Boogie'. A Night At The Opera According to unconfirmed sources at Wikipedia.com: A song written by May and Mercury called "And Baby will Fall" was originally slated to end the album until it was decided that 'God Save The Queen' be the conclusion. Further, songs titled "Woe" (written by May and Mercury), "All for Nothing" (written by Deacon), and "Any Given Day" (written and sung by May) were also recorded. A Day At The Races According to unconfirmed sources at Wikipedia.com: Unreleased songs include an early version of 'We Are The Champions' (simply titled 'Champions' at this stage), a re-recording of 'Woe' by May and Mercury, a May song called 'The Night Draws In', and a Mercury song called 'Lap Of Luxury'. News Of The World According to unconfirmed sources at Wikipedia.com: A Freddie vocal version of 'Fight From The Inside' was recorded, as was a fast version of 'We Will Rock You', a guitar version of 'My Melancholy Blues', and two versions - one standard rock and one reggae - of 'Who Needs You'. The only true outtakes include a Brian composition titled 'Batteries Not Included' and a Freddie composition titled 'Where Did You Go Now?' Jazz According to unconfirmed sources at Wikipedia.com: 'Coming Soon' was originally recorded during these sessions, and a song called 'Circles' (authorship unknown) was also recorded. These are the only true outtakes, though a Freddie vocal version of 'Leaving Home Ain't Easy' was also recorded. 'Jealousy' and 'In Only Seven Days' were heavily edited; the former ran over five minutes, while the latter edited out a piano solo that brought the song over four minutes. Coincidently, the ‘Quartz’ debut album "Stand Up And Fight" (recorded 1977 – released 2004) featured sessions including Brian May as guest guitarist on a track also called ‘Circles’ (also featuring Ozzy Osbourne on backing vocals). |
| bigV 19.07.2006 10:28 |
EDIT: Nevermind... |
| Kastagir 19.07.2006 10:29 |
It would be interesting to know who has edited these pages on Wikipedia displaying this knowledge, I wonder if it's the same person for all albums. The problem with Wiki is, I believe anyone can edit it, therefore it could be all made up. |
| John S Stuart 19.07.2006 10:40 |
Unreleased 1970's Tracks confirmed to exist: (I have not included BBC sessions) Queen Doing All Right UK 7” Trident one-sided acetate (BBC Edit) Great King Rat GB IQFC convention October 16th 2004, Vlaardingen, Holland: Unreleased Great King Rat (Vocal demo Version). Recorded early 1973. Freddie counts intro, different melody and lyrics and no electric guitars. GB IQFC convention Prestatyn 2005: Unreleased Great King Rat Early demo: Take 4 Vocal demo 3:50 Take 4 Early demo 3:40 Small Odd Ends My Fairy King UK 7” EMIDisc Acetate (Exclusive BBC Edit) Freddie Solo Piano Demo Liar UK 7” EMIDisc Acetate (3:36 Exclusive BBC Edit) Rough Demo Lover: Ibex/Wreckage Original version Does Not Exist Night Comes Down Roy Thomas Baker Trident Studios Version Modern Times Rock and Roll Rough Demo Son and Daughter Out-Take Version(s) Jesus Trident "Heavy" Version Seven Seas Of Rhye 7” Withdrawn Test Press - As It Began p75 Mad The Swine Original Trident Studio Version I Can Hear Music Trident Studios UK 1-sided acetate 7” Recorded by Freddie, Brian and Roger during summer of 1973 under the pseudonym of “Larry Lurex And The Voles From Venus” while they were waiting for available studio time to work on their debut album. Trident producer Robin Cable thought Freddie's voice was perfect for this Beach Boys cover version. When released the artist name was shortened to just “Larry Lurex”. Robin Cable’s next Queen production “Funny How Love Is” also recreated the Phil Spector sounding: “Funny How Love Is” on the “Queen II” album. Silver Salmon (Convention No1: “Feeling” Version) Polar Bear (3:45) Polar Bear (4:43)(Take 2 – including studio talk) Rock 'n Roll Medley White Queen (Eponymous Session) Ogre Battle (Eponymous Session) See What A Fool I’ve Been (Eponymous Session) Stone Cold Crazy (Eponymous Session) Seven Seas Of Rye (Eponymous Vocal Session) Trident One-sided 10" acetates: Hangman Rock ‘n roll (Jailhouse Rock) Jesus Keep Yourself Alive Queen II Procession Golder’s Green Demo (Studio version) White Queen Brian May 1968 Home Demo Ogre Battle 7" one-sided Trident acetate BBC Edit (3:02) (Fades-in during final intro scream – fades-out during final outro screams) Nevermore GB IQFC convention Prestatyn 2005: Nevermore Piano/bass Instrumental Nevermore Piano/bass Instrumental (2:00) March Of The Black Queen GB IQFC convention Prestatyn 2005: Unreleased March Of The Black Queen Instrumental (Takes 3/5) Takes 3 & 5 Instrumental (6:45) Funny How Love Is GB IQFC convention Prestatyn 2005: Unreleased Funny How Love Is Instrumental (Takes 3 & 5) Original (1st Press) Cassette Tape Mix Queen II: TC M-M EMI TC EMA 767 Instrumental Takes 3 & 5 (6:30) Seven Seas Of Rhye Withdrawn Test Press - As It Began p75 See What A Fool I’ve Been Smile: Royal Albert Hall 27th February 1969 Sheer Heart Attack Carousel Brighton Rock Original Working Titles: Happy Little Fuck, Happy Little Day, Blackpool Rock, Bognor Ballad, Southend Sea Scout, Skiffle Rock and Herne Bay. Session engineer Mike Stone is the likely culprit of some of the titles, though the band members themselves frequently employed working titles during the song development process. GB IQFC convention October 16th 2004, Vlaardingen, Holland: Unreleased Brighton Rock (Incomplete lyric Version) Musically, very similar, but Bass guitar is very different, no guitar overdubs. The solo is much shorter, and most of the lyrics consist of Freddie La la las. Incomplete Lyric Version Killer Queen 7" Acetate (0:10" Finger Click Intro) Tenement Funster GB IQFC convention October 16th 2004, Vlaardingen, Holland: Unreleased Tenement Funster (Instrumental) Instrumental demo 2:20 Flick Of The Wrist GB IQFC convention October 16th 2004, Vlaardingen, Hollan |
| Jay Mantis 19.07.2006 10:52 |
John, since we're on the subject of unreleased 70's material could you perhaps help me with a question? I know you own the Hangman acetate and I presume you have listened to it (if not then forget the question) and of course I'm not asking you to upload it or even post a sample but could you perhaps give us some information on how you would rate the sound quality, the track length, if it's any different from the live versions and any other details worth mentioning about this great song? If you don't want to answer this, I'll understand. Thanks in advance though. |
| John S Stuart 19.07.2006 10:56 |
the_hero wrote: Sorry for interrupting this interesting thread, but "John Deacon's first song, titled 'Fly By Night'" IS there any information about this track at all? (is it a demo of a song we know or a stand alone track?)I know your question is not directly pointed at me, but the truth is, I have no idea. That is why I am panning for gold. In the absence of any further info, we are all just digging in the dirt - for now. Hopefully, as a community, we can gain some useful insights, and by forcing the source issue, trace it back, and even if we unearth one reliable gem, I think that the work would have been worthwhile. |
| FriedChicken 19.07.2006 10:57 |
Why not include over 20 takes for most of the songs? |
| Jjeroen 19.07.2006 11:22 |
FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote: Why not include over 20 takes for most of the songs?Right. More then just takes 3 and 5 of both MOTBQ and FHLI have had an airing. And that's only what has actually been played at conventions! (Though, yes, some of the other takes are THAT short that you can hardly call them a 'song'. |
| Benn 19.07.2006 12:09 |
John, Would it be worth puttign this directly to Brian via Jen at brianmay.com do you think? |
| John S Stuart 19.07.2006 12:14 |
Benn wrote: John, Would it be worth puttign this directly to Brian via Jen at brianmay.com do you think?I think you should ask Lester that question! |
| Mr Mercury 19.07.2006 15:25 |
Part of the problem I have with the internet these days is that as well as providing us with real genuine information, there is a lot of sites with "mis-information". What I mean by that is that there is info there but with no foundation or substance to back it up with. That kind of info can only be viewed as rumour or speculation until firm proof is provided. There is also sites out there that would have you believe that Freddie sang on the Leo Sayer hit "Thunder In My Heart" and proclaiming this to be the truth when the fact is it is totally wrong. So I thank you John for putting this thread up here and at least attempting to get to the truth. My only other wish is that Greg himself joins in within the spirit of the thread and not rise to any name calling or whatever. |
| Penetration_Guru 19.07.2006 16:40 |
Wikipedia is as reliable as something really unreliable. It's like the opposite of journalism. |
| Bohardy 19.07.2006 18:54 |
link is I think what you're looking for to find the registered authors and publishers of songs. There's nothing particularly interesting from Freddie, although searching under Brian throws up a few interesting items, such as 'Behaviour Modification', 'Change', and 'In The Groove': link |
| M. 19.07.2006 21:07 |
Kastagir wrote: It would be interesting to know who has edited these pages on Wikipedia displaying this knowledge, I wonder if it's the same person for all albums.Yes, it's the same person: link By the way, it's really strange that "71.224.53.203" claimed bass guitar on "Sail Away Sweet Sister" had been played by Brian May and not by John Deacon... |
| FriedChicken 20.07.2006 06:34 |
jeroen wrote:What do you mean with that Jeroen?FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote: Why not include over 20 takes for most of the songs?Right. More then just takes 3 and 5 of both MOTBQ and FHLI have had an airing. And that's only what has actually been played at conventions! (Though, yes, some of the other takes are THAT short that you can hardly call them a 'song'. I meant that it's a bit unnessecary to make a whole list of alternate versions. Since it's highly unlikely that there isn't more than 1 take for each song (even when John didn't mention it, or when Greg didn't play it). Oh yeah, the original multitrack of Bohemian Rhapsody has three lead vocal takes on it. |
| Jjeroen 20.07.2006 06:43 |
FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote:I think we meant to say the same ;-)jeroen wrote:What do you mean with that Jeroen? I meant that it's a bit unnessecary to make a whole list of alternate versions. Since it's highly unlikely that there isn't more than 1 take for each song (even when John didn't mention it, or when Greg didn't play it). Oh yeah, the original multitrack of Bohemian Rhapsody has three lead vocal takes on it.FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote: Why not include over 20 takes for most of the songs?Right. More then just takes 3 and 5 of both MOTBQ and FHLI have had an airing. And that's only what has actually been played at conventions! (Though, yes, some of the other takes are THAT short that you can hardly call them a 'song'. Though it might be possible that not all takes have survived. We could at least list the ones we KNOW that DID survive. I mentioned this because JSS specifically mentioned takes 3 and 5 and we both know that more takes have been played. (Take 4 for example) We know that these are 'available' in some sort of way and not SOLELY remain in the archives. We don't know what happened to takes 1 and 2 for example - so no need to list them. But we could at least try to be as complete as possible with what we know did find it's way out in whatever form. Am I making sence? ;-) |
| Bobby_brown 20.07.2006 16:23 |
John S Stuart wrote: Unreleased 1970's Tracks confirmed to exist: (I have not included BBC sessions) Polar Bear (3:45) Polar Bear (4:43)(Take 2 – including studio talk)These two are indeed the same take. The only diference is the talking in the begining, isn´t it? Take care |
| sparverius 21.07.2006 03:29 |
I had a quick look at the BMI link posted by Bohardy and have the following to report. - Published under "Mercury Freddie" are two songs (out of a total of 133) titled "Champions" and "We Are The Champions". Assuming that it would be meaningless to register the same song twice, one could say that "Champions" could be an early version of "We Are The Champions". |
| John S Stuart 21.07.2006 05:11 |
Bobby_brown wrote:I am sure they are, but I am paranoid about double-checking!John S Stuart wrote: Unreleased 1970's Tracks confirmed to exist: (I have not included BBC sessions) Polar Bear (3:45) Polar Bear (4:43)(Take 2 – including studio talk)These two are indeed the same take. The only diference is the talking in the begining, isn´t it? Take care |
| John S Stuart 21.07.2006 05:17 |
I forgot to add the latest updated information from the UK IQFC Queen convention, Prestatyn, May 2006: Tie your mother down - brian's guide vocals Somebody to love - piano rehearsal Don't stop me now – inst Let me entertain you - diff ending If anyone was there, can they explain the difference to me between the 'Don't stop me now – inst version' played at the convention, and the already released karaoke version? Also, apart from: One Vision - short out-takes Backchat - short out-takes I go crazy - instrumental demo 1982 Pain is so close to pleasure - demo and the revelation that the Anita Dobson track "Let Me In (Your Heart Again)" had been recorded in 1982 by Queen for The Works album, what other information came out from that weekend? |
| bigV 21.07.2006 06:18 |
John, do you ever get tired of mirroring your posts on the two boards? :) V. |
| John S Stuart 21.07.2006 06:27 |
Short answer = yes, but not if it is a request like this, as a bigger 'net' hopefully means more results! |
| Wilki Amieva 22.07.2006 18:38 |
John, MOST of those unconfirmed song titles come either from the 'Left Testicle Of Freddie' infamous QUEEN II thread in this forum or another equally infamous thread on the ArgenQUEEN.com forum. Believe me, they do not worth spending one second. |
| Bobby_brown 22.07.2006 20:17 |
John S Stuart wrote:Yes , i understand.Bobby_brown wrote:I am sure they are, but I am paranoid about double-checking!John S Stuart wrote: Unreleased 1970's Tracks confirmed to exist: (I have not included BBC sessions) Polar Bear (3:45) Polar Bear (4:43)(Take 2 – including studio talk)These two are indeed the same take. The only diference is the talking in the begining, isn´t it? Take care But if you listen to the end of the short version, you´ll notice that it captures the first note of the arpegiated chord that Brian does on the long version after the song is finished. I know this ís not very important to some people, but is just for people to know exactly what they have. (at least, until the boxes are out, we can only guess, so we really need to develop our hearing skills, and our reading skills too - like you´re doing right now with this topic - because we know that our questions are not answered by Q.P.). In the end this tipe of research will keep us busy, and is somehow gratifying, because we tend to interact with other fans and find out something new. I think that after the boxes are out, much of the fun will be lost too! Talking about hearing skills, you still don´t buy that the Silver Salmon is from 1977, do you? : ))- Well that was one of the most gratifying discussions i´ve ever seen on Queenzone, and very interesting too! Take care |
| Michael Allred 23.07.2006 14:54 |
Spread Your Wings Trent Reznor Remix Get Down, Make Love Trent Reznor Remix Now THESE I would love to hear! |