| inu-liger 20.04.2005 20:04 |
Hey, I just had a brilliant idea that would possibly ensure that some of us can get legal copies of the live songs currently being made available for download. I purchased "Can't Get Enough Of Your Love" from the Madrid 01/04/2005 concert, and it's amazing. While I was looking at the licence properties for the file, I noticed that it said the file can be legally burned "10 more times"(!!) That's where I got this idea: If some people were to buy at least some of the tracks, and burn the 10 CD-R's, they could keep one of the CD-R's for themselves and distribute the other 9 with friends (whether personal or QZ friends). I would gladly burn 9 discs with the song I bought, for other people here if they wanted to hear the songs completely w/o directly purchasing the songs themselves (hey, it's legal, isn't it?) This way, we can also perhaps do some trades in the process for other tracks from the QOL / 7Digital downloads shop, so some of us can hear the other great performances being made available, right? Any comments? Concerns? Let me know what you guys think. |
| Maz 20.04.2005 21:44 |
Inu Yasha<h6>a.k.a. Lum's Stormtrooper wrote: While I was looking at the licence properties for the file, I noticed that it said the file can be legally burned "10 more times"(!!)I'm pretty certain they mean for your own personal use, so look for any legal clauses in that regard. The "burn 10 times" line was not intended for you to share free of charge with 9 other people, otherwise what's the point in charging for internet downloads? This is still official material and sharing it is no different than sharing official albums through a tree. |
| inu-liger 20.04.2005 22:54 |
Why would 7Digital allow 10 burns then, if we couldn't do anything with the other 9 CD-R discs other than keeping them to ourselves? Here in Canada, we have a service called PureTracks, which is pretty much almost the same as 7Digital or iTunes. Their limit on burning is a maximum of 3 times (not as generous as 7Digital, but hey). I have an aide at school who bought literally hundreds of dollars worth of songs on his credit card from PureTracks (I'm seriously not joking! These downloads are $0.99 CDN each too!), and he sometimes burnt CD's with these tracks for me and my fellow classmates (and our other aide as well, occassionally - depending on the music). Here in Canada, it is legal to share the CD's which have been burnt with these such songs, as long as the rules regarding burning is followed, with other people. I have gotten music on CD-R legally this way from my above-mentioned aide. I'm sure that these laws are the same in Euro countries, otherwise 7Digital would not be allowed to let people burn more than 1 CD-R per license. If I can burn 10 CD's legally, why not share the ones I won't need to keep anyways? I don't need shelf filler discs! Also, another thing is that with 7Digital, you can have the same download on up to 3 unique computers. I gave the person who helped me buy this a copy of the song from the download page, so he too owns a legal copy (but I later learnt that I had to put in my account e-mail and password in the Obtaining License box in Windows Media Player to get the license, and the person doesn't have this info, so tomorrow I will have to give him that). So far, I've used 2 of the 3 downloads, but since I don't want anyone knowing my account info in order to get the 3rd download (if I were to offer that), I'm offering to burn the other 9 CD-R's instead. Does what I say make sense? |
| inu-liger 20.04.2005 22:55 |
Also, Zeni, it would be only like "sharing official albums" if I burnt more than 10 CD-R's by ripping the burnt tracks and making more copies that way. THEN that would be illegal, am I not right? |
| Maz 20.04.2005 23:41 |
Inu Yasha<h6>a.k.a. Lum's Stormtrooper wrote: Why would 7Digital allow 10 burns then, if we couldn't do anything with the other 9 CD-R discs other than keeping them to ourselves? Here in Canada, we have a service called PureTracks, which is pretty much almost the same as 7Digital or iTunes. Their limit on burning is a maximum of 3 times (not as generous as 7Digital, but hey).Asked and answered your own question. 7Digital probably allowed for 10 burns to be generous. A possible clue is found on their website: Q) Will these downloads work with my iPod? A) Not directly. However you can burn the tracks to a CD and use Apple iTunes to transfer from CD onto your iPod Allowing 10 burns will let you make a back-up or two and transfer to your ipod. If they only allowed one burn, users would get angry. DRM's are not consumer friendly, so companies have to bend somewhere. Also, another thing is that with 7Digital, you can have the same download on up to 3 unique computers. I gave the person who helped me buy this a copy of the song from the download page, so he too owns a legal copy (but I later learnt that I had to put in my account e-mail and password in the Obtaining License box in Windows Media Player to get the license, and the person doesn't have this info, so tomorrow I will have to give him that).From their website: Q) What does ‘License Acquisition' mean? A) When you purchase a track, our system will issue you a personal license enabling you to play the track on up to 3 computers as well as burn the track to CD and transfer to a compatible portable music player. My guess is that the personal license applies to one individual. That means when you bought the track, license was given to you to download three times, not for three people to download. Inu Yasha<h6>a.k.a. Lum's Stormtrooper wrote: Also, Zeni, it would be only like "sharing official albums" if I burnt more than 10 CD-R's by ripping the burnt tracks and making more copies that way. THEN that would be illegal, am I not right?Use your head for a minute. 7Digital is a company that wants to make money. Why would they let you have 9 freebies to give away? The 10 burns are for your personal use and a way to keep the individual consumer happy. It is not a license to make 10 copies for sharing for free. 7Digital wouldn't survive otherwise. As for your discussion on Canadian copyright law, I suspect there is a misunderstanding in there somewhere. |
| Rien 21.04.2005 05:13 |
Inu, I'm beginning to dislike the fact that you're more and more trying to start trees with official stuff. Sure you've been sharing too, and that's appreciated. Sorry to say, but still in some way or another I'm getting a wrong feeling about this. |
| willem-jan 8923 21.04.2005 06:15 |
Rien wrote: Inu, I'm beginning to dislike the fact that you're more and more trying to start trees with official stuff. Sure you've been sharing too, and that's appreciated. Sorry to say, but still in some way or another I'm getting a wrong feeling about this.You're not the only one. How retarded can you be thinking that it would be legal to give copies to your friends..... |
| agneepath! 11994 21.04.2005 06:36 |
Agree with the replies. On a personal note, I refuse to download the songs. Not because I'm tight (although 99p per song is far too much)but it would cost a bucketful to download all the songs. Put the songs on a CD, with a nice booklet and I'll buy it. Bottom line is... if you want all the downloads -buy them! There can be no other way. I'm more than happy with the bootlegs which many people have graciously made available. |
| agneepath! 11994 21.04.2005 06:49 |
Rien wrote: Inu, I'm beginning to dislike the fact that you're more and more trying to start trees with official stuff. Sure you've been sharing too, and that's appreciated. Sorry to say, but still in some way or another I'm getting a wrong feeling about this.He seems to come out with these crazy ideas / schemes once a month. |
| proton 21.04.2005 07:27 |
Not retarded at all!!!
A German LAWYER has searched and found out that giving free copies to your family or best friends is perfectly LEGAL!!! I saw him telling this on TV, so it's not some vague article in a newspaper.
Selling them is ofcourse not :-)
You're not the only one. How retarded can you be thinking that it would be legal to give copies to your friends..... |
| agneepath! 11994 21.04.2005 07:37 |
proton wrote: Not retarded at all!!! |
| proton 21.04.2005 07:56 |
the lawyer was referring to LEGAL CD's not bootlegs. He found some hole in the net of laws :-) He did research after the copy-protecting thing was put into legal CD's |
| Wilki Amieva 21.04.2005 08:13 |
Damned parasite!!! |
| agneepath! 11994 21.04.2005 08:55 |
proton wrote: the lawyer was referring to LEGAL CD's not bootlegs. He found some hole in the net of laws :-) He did research after the copy-protecting thing was put into legal CD'sI repeat... is it worth the risk? |
| proton 21.04.2005 09:01 |
according to millions of people with cd/dvd writers.... uhhh....yeah? :-) |
| Wilki Amieva 21.04.2005 09:10 |
...A little bit more seriously:
Inu Yasha<h6>a.k.a. Lum's Stormtrooper wrote: Here in Canada, we have a service called PureTracks, which is pretty much almost the same as 7Digital or iTunes.Do you mean the music service or the escort/dating service? (See the following thread: link ) Here in Canada, it is legal to share the CD's which have been burnt with these such songs, as long as the rules regarding burning is followed, with other people. I have gotten music on CD-R legally this way from my above-mentioned aide....I'm really not that sure about the legal status of your CD-Rs. Obviously, it all depends on the purchased licenses. In the case of the QUEEN downloads, they have PERSONAL licenses and all of their rights are bound to the individuals who bought them. The same goes for iTunes and most music download services. I'm sure that these laws are the same in Euro countries, otherwise 7Digital would not be allowed to let people burn more than 1 CD-R per license.Your logic is bad here! In fact, there are good reasons to let the people burn the tracks to CD more than once. Remember that in most countries it is legal to copy your entire CD collection for backup reasons. In others, it is legal to have a DVD-R copy of a VHS you already have. The point is that when you buy music, you buy the right to access to it more than the media it is on. The same goes for the downloads. Also, another thing is that with 7Digital, you can have the same download on up to 3 unique computers. I gave the person who helped me buy this a copy of the song from the download page, so he too owns a legal copy (but I later learnt that I had to put in my account e-mail and password in the Obtaining License box in Windows Media Player to get the license, and the person doesn't have this info, so tomorrow I will have to give him that).Oh, my. If you have to put YOUR e-mail, that is because the license is PERSONAL. Read my comment above. Does what I say make sense?No, it does not. |
| Wilki Amieva 21.04.2005 09:21 |
proton wrote: Not retarded at all!!! A German LAWYER has searched and found out that giving free copies to your family or best friends is perfectly LEGAL!!! I saw him telling this on TV, so it's not some vague article in a newspaper. Selling them is ofcourse not :-)There might be a legal hole on the German copyright acts, but I am pretty sure that is not the case on most countries (here in Argentina, LENDING your CDs is forbidden!). Ah, and just in case, do not believe in all you see on TV. |
| agneepath! 11994 21.04.2005 09:27 |
proton wrote: according to millions of people with cd/dvd writers.... uhhh....yeah? :-)I meant the risk to this site! |
| proton 21.04.2005 10:00 |
aha :-) well, it's better to have personal email contact to do these sort of things. There will always be fans who don't agree with such actions. And you never know whoelse is watching :-) But the ones who have the highest risks are people with a dedicated website to sell bootlegs and maybe legal stuff. Specially if you got your website on a host in your own country :-) |
| Benn 21.04.2005 10:18 |
Surely, if you convert the tracks from the first burn into a different format, you can then save the track in the new format and burn as many copies as you like? |
| onevsion 21.04.2005 12:03 |
Wilki wrote:In The Netherlands it is totally legal to give a friend a bootleg/pirate cd whatever. Selling them is illegal. Swapping or giving it as a present is not illegal at all. I think that's how the situation is every where else in Europe as well.proton wrote: Not retarded at all!!! A German LAWYER has searched and found out that giving free copies to your family or best friends is perfectly LEGAL!!! I saw him telling this on TV, so it's not some vague article in a newspaper. Selling them is ofcourse not :-)There might be a legal hole on the German copyright acts, but I am pretty sure that is not the case on most countries (here in Argentina, LENDING your CDs is forbidden!). Ah, and just in case, do not believe in all you see on TV. |
| agneepath! 11994 21.04.2005 12:32 |
I think the point is... advertising all of this on Queenzone is not the right thing to do. |
| John S Stuart 21.04.2005 12:33 |
This is economically stupid anyway. Buy the time I buy, burn and post out nine other CD's, I would be cheaper buying another download! |
| bohemian 11513 21.04.2005 12:43 |
C'mon... it´s eiteher "them" or "us" sleeping under a bridge... by the time the tour is finished! :-)) |
| Hank H. 21.04.2005 18:37 |
Difficult questions... First, I don't understand why many people here refuse to share official material and at the same time have no problem with illegally recording and distributing concerts which are also officially recorded and later officially available. Second, of course if you own something, you may give it away as a present. In this case, either you keep all ten versions for yourself, or give all ten exemplars away as a present. The downloaded data are to be used by 1 person, not more. It's like "All You Can Eat" in a restaurant - you are the one who pays and may eat as much as you like, but you are not allowed to take a friend and give him half of the food. |
| inu-liger 21.04.2005 19:46 |
Actually, Hank, the data here can be downloaded by a max. of 3 people (or PC's). After that, the license cannot be used by other people once all 3 are issued to the 3 different/unique PC's in question. And I was talking to some people at school today about this. They themselves aren't sure either whether these legal download copies can be distributed among other people within the limited number of legal burns. I also talked to my aide, and he suggested two things: 1) PureTracks (the digital download service, btw., for the person who asked - although I know you were referring to 7Digital) perhaps offers only 3 downloads so that the person who owns the unique license can make copies as follows: a master copy, a play copy, and a back-up copy (in case the first two ever get damaged). 2) 7Digital may offer 10 burns because they want more people's business, instead of people going for the (in terms of currency, since British pounds and pences are extremely expensive to other countries) cheaper services that offer virtually the same prices by number (eg. $0.99 CDN, $0.99 US, etc.). And while me and my aide were talking, he did point out that in Canada, it is perfectly legal to make a PERSONAL back-up copy of digital media, as long as you own the original media that you backed up. And it MIGHT be legal to give out CD's as well that you had the license(s) to make/burn, as long as you do it for free. When you make a profit, THEN it becomes illegal, and that's what complicates things. But then again, if everyone here agrees that this thing is not something to discuss, then I'll abide by the agreement. I'm not trying to pull another Teo Torriatte here, as that was a slightly different situation (on a bigger scale) - but then, I possibly might be wrong on that too. Who knows? Anyways, I think this matter is over. I'll decide privately from here on what to do with my downloads. |
| Khizzy 21.04.2005 20:16 |
It's simple... play the songs over Windows Media Player and set your soundcard to record "what you hear" or a stereo mix and record that into a recorder like Cool Edit Pro. Then save that as mp3 and you can do what you want with it..... |
| inu-liger 21.04.2005 21:00 |
Khizzy wrote: It's simple... play the songs over Windows Media Player and set your soundcard to record "what you hear" or a stereo mix and record that into a recorder like Cool Edit Pro. Then save that as mp3 and you can do what you want with it.....No need to. Like I mentioned earlier (if I did), I could easily burn the track to CD-R, and then rip it from the CD-R back to the PC as a WAVE/FLAC/MP3 file, whatever pleases me. I might have to do that anyways when I get a new PC (IF I do) later this year or next year, so it's not a bad idea, as long as I keep the file(s) only to myself. :P |
| Wilki Amieva 22.04.2005 08:49 |
Inu Yasha<h6>a.k.a. Lum's Stormtrooper wrote: Actually, Hank, the data here can be downloaded by a max. of 3 people (or PC's). After that, the license cannot be used by other people once all 3 are issued to the 3 different/unique PC's in question.3 PCs: Right 3 people: WRONG! The license is PERSONAL. Do you know what PERSONAL means? The restaurant analogy is a very good way to put it. ...And it is still illegal to give away the CD-Rs with downloaded material, as you have not bought a license which gives you the right to do so. Bear in mind that it is illegal to broadcast a song in the radio without the proper license. |
| Wilki Amieva 22.04.2005 08:50 |
Inu Yasha<h6>a.k.a. Lum's Stormtrooper wrote:There is a better way. High Criteria's Total Recorder makes perfect bit-to-bit digital copies.Khizzy wrote: It's simple... play the songs over Windows Media Player and set your soundcard to record "what you hear" or a stereo mix and record that into a recorder like Cool Edit Pro. Then save that as mp3 and you can do what you want with it.....No need to. Like I mentioned earlier (if I did), I could easily burn the track to CD-R, and then rip it from the CD-R back to the PC as a WAVE/FLAC/MP3 file, whatever pleases me. I might have to do that anyways when I get a new PC (IF I do) later this year or next year, so it's not a bad idea, as long as I keep the file(s) only to myself. :P |
| Wilki Amieva 22.04.2005 08:58 |
Ducksoup wrote:In most parts of the world it is legal to give away and swap CDs. I give them as a present to my friends regularly. And as a collector I have swapped hundred of items. Go figure! ...And I'm talking of official material. The problem is when you make a duplicate and give that or keep that to yourself while giving the original.Wilki wrote:In The Netherlands it is totally legal to give a friend a bootleg/pirate cd whatever. Selling them is illegal. Swapping or giving it as a present is not illegal at all. I think that's how the situation is every where else in Europe as well.proton wrote: Not retarded at all!!! A German LAWYER has searched and found out that giving free copies to your family or best friends is perfectly LEGAL!!! I saw him telling this on TV, so it's not some vague article in a newspaper. Selling them is ofcourse not :-)There might be a legal hole on the German copyright acts, but I am pretty sure that is not the case on most countries (here in Argentina, LENDING your CDs is forbidden!). Ah, and just in case, do not believe in all you see on TV. By the way, bootlegs have no copyright licenses attached to them, as they are by definition unofficial recordings. (Of course counterfeits and other kinds of pirate discs might be violating the copyright of an official recording, but that is another story). |
| wstüssyb 22.04.2005 10:30 |
hey dark, email Brian and ask what he thinks =) |
| Fenderek 22.04.2005 10:35 |
wstüssyb wrote: hey dark, email Brian and ask what he thinks =)LOL- i can imagine the reply!!! |
| Lisser 22.04.2005 11:07 |
wstüssyb wrote: hey dark, email Brian and ask what he thinks =)William!!!!!!!!!! Don't encourage him!!! LOL |