| Mean Mistreater 14.02.2005 16:20 |
OK, I picked up The Best of The Sweet the other day, and I think it's pretty good. Anybody else here fans of The Sweet? I'm newly discovering them so any particular songs I should know about? |
| kerfuffle87 14.02.2005 16:31 |
woohoo! i see you have a good ear for music ;-) i love the Sweet too, particularly 'Ballroom Blitz' 'Fox on the Run' and 'AC/DC' o and 'my generation' enjoy! xxx |
| Mean Mistreater 14.02.2005 17:32 |
Of course I have a good ear for music! :D Fox on the run and Love is like oxygen are my favs so far! |
| newcastle 86! 16483 14.02.2005 17:33 |
love is like oxygen a classic! |
| brENsKi 14.02.2005 17:59 |
i love FOTR and LILO - you gotta hear the long version of Oxygen there's some other greats in there teenage rampage ballroom blitz wigwam bam co-co hell raiser little willy |
| Pim Derks 14.02.2005 18:18 |
Been listening to their Greatest Hits cd almost 24/7 the last few weeks. Great stuff! |
| Mean Mistreater 15.02.2005 08:24 |
<B><font color=#ff7f00>Brenski</B> wrote: i love FOTR and LILO - you gotta hear the long version of Oxygen there's some other greats in there teenage rampage ballroom blitz wigwam bam co-co hell raiser little willyHey thanks for recommending the long version of Oxygen! It's great! |
| flash00. 15.02.2005 15:20 |
yea the sweet were a great band, they were huge in the early 70's, anyone see that docu about the lead singer how he ended up penniless living in a small flat in glasgow, it showed some kids throwing stones at him walking down the street, he died not long after, ive been meaning to get that greatest hits album tho, cool stuff...........ballroom blitzzzz |
| Mr Mercury 15.02.2005 20:22 |
<font color=#FF399> Linda Of The Valley wrote: The Sweet...did they do 'Action'? Maybe I'm wrong...They sure did. My 2 fave albums from them are Sweet Fanny Adams and Live At The Rainbow (which should be purchased purely for the extremely high harmony Roger style vocals alone). Excellent band. Pity two of are dead now (Brian Connolly and drummer Mick Tucker) |
| sir john 22.02.2005 18:32 |
the sweet were fantastic,great band only second to queen the hits are fine but the albums you need to listen to for real rock pleasure are Sweet F.A Give Us A wink Off The Record On the album sleeve of give us a wink it says "Queen Are A Bunch Of Winkers" Queen And Sweet Were Always Competeing or thats how the press tried to make it |
| Mean Mistreater 23.02.2005 07:30 |
sir john wrote: the sweet were fantastic,great band only second to queen the hits are fine but the albums you need to listen to for real rock pleasure are Sweet F.A Give Us A wink Off The Record On the album sleeve of give us a wink it says "Queen Are A Bunch Of Winkers" Queen And Sweet Were Always Competeing or thats how the press tried to make itThanks for the info! I'll be looking for those! |
| Ogre 23.02.2005 14:07 |
Yeah, still listen to their music, with the likes of:- Alexander Graham Bell Poppa Joe Hell raiser Wig wam bam etc.etc.etc. Great stuff.. |
| Heavenite 16.06.2012 09:55 |
I'm a Sweet fan from way back. Great to see lots of other Queen fans like Sweet too. The current UK version of the band released a covers album jsut a couple of months ago. Its called New York Connection and has a great version of their original b-side. Its also got some other great covers including Because the Night, Sweet Jane and New York Groove. They have done an absolutely super version of You Spin Me Round with Sweet FA sounding guitar. Not a song I would have thought they would have covered or expected to like. |
| brENsKi 16.06.2012 16:50 |
well done on reviving a 7½ yr dead, thread if you wanted to talk abou the Sweet why not start a new one? this has to be a new "regurgitate expired stuff" world record.... even Howard Carter, on breaking into Tutankhamun's tomb in 1922 found something newer than this thread |
| pittrek 17.06.2012 12:46 |
Well what can I say ? link or maybe link ? |
| david (galashiels) 18.06.2012 13:10 |
one of there best songs. link |
| Heavenite 20.06.2012 04:53 |
brENsKi wrote: well done on reviving a 7½ yr dead, thread if you wanted to talk abou the Sweet why not start a new one? this has to be a new "regurgitate expired stuff" world record.... even Howard Carter, on breaking into Tutankhamun's tomb in 1922 found something newer than this thread Hi brENSKI I used the search tool and found the old thread on Sweet that way. Reviving old threads seems to be a bit of a "no no" on here then. That's not always the case, as I am a bit of a regular on The Sweet site for instance, and bringing an old thread back to the top can sometimes get discussion going again if its been a while and there are new members and its a great thread. Having said that, your suggestion for a new thread is a good one. I note you commented on my Sparks/Brian May thread recently, so an angle on Sweet and Queen would certainly be a cool way to go. In fact there are lots of Queen threads on The Sweet site and plenty of Queen fans amongst Sweet fans as well. Alternatively, just a Sweet only thread under the Personal section might be good too. |
| Heavenite 20.06.2012 05:01 |
pittrek wrote: Well what can I say ? link or maybe link Hi pittrek Thanks for reminding people how great a track Sweet FA is. Check out You Spin Me Round version off New York Connection and I think you will see what I mean about the Sweet FA guitar. Its got some great keyboards on it too. |
| Heavenite 20.06.2012 05:12 |
david (galashiels) wrote: One of there best songs. link Hi David Its a ripper, isn't it? So incredibly underrated this band were in the UK. Yet polling in Germany in recent years has apparently still shown them to be in the top 4 or 5 most popular bands in their history. Check our Play All Night from the first Brianless album if you don't already know it. link |
| waq20659 21.06.2012 20:06 |
Didn't Brian May and Andy Scott just do a benefit together? I've seen pictures of the 2 together on the fore-mentioned Sweet site.....(that must have been a Sweet concert!!!) |
| Heavenite 22.06.2012 03:51 |
Hi there waq It was Rock Against Cancer, which was held in Wiltshire. Sounds like it was a fantastic event. Brian fronted up with Kerry Ellis and did a few songs, before coming back for the encore which included We Will Rock You. Great stuff! Apparently Sweet also did a set which went down a storm. What are you like with technology waq? I mean Can you put up a photo of Brian and Andy together at the event? I think it is awesome! |
| Heavenite 22.06.2012 04:34 |
Heavenite wrote: david (galashiels) wrote: One of there best songs. link Hi David Its a ripper, isn't it? So incredibly underrated this band were in the UK. Yet polling in Germany in recent years has apparently still shown them to be in the top 4 or 5 most popular bands in their history. Check our Play All Night from the first Brianless album if you don't already know it. link And Sweet have now uploaded You Spin Me Round on YouTube, so here it is for you to listen to with its Sweet FA guitars. link The album is named after their b-side from the 1970's and they have also included an updated version of the song on the album, and that also sounds excellent. |
| purplepiepete 22.06.2012 12:14 |
i liked the sweet in their heyday. they were one of the bands i was into from the british glam rock scene at the time. i had some of their singles and also one of their albums too. i think i was around 12 or 13 at the time. i also saw them in concert as well, that was around the time of the single 'action.' on that particular tour i listened to an interview on the radio with them. at one stage they complained that queen had nicked 'their' sound by using so many harmonies in their songs!!! even recently i read an andy scott interview and he's still moaning about queen! what a joke! he's obviously pissed off that the sweet weren't/aren't as popular as queen. its not as if they had a monopoly on vocal harmonies. i only have a greatest hits lp of theirs now. they had some really good songs, one or two quite heavy. my favourite song of theirs is 'turn it down', which is one of their more heavier tunes. |
| emrabt 22.06.2012 13:07 |
I Bought Andy Scotts Sweet's last CD of new music, "sweetlife" a few years ago and i have the greatest hits, but i wouldn't say i'm the biggest fan. |
| Heavenite 22.06.2012 23:53 |
purplepiepete wrote: i liked the sweet in their heyday.they were one of the bands i was into from the british glam rock scene at the time. i had some of their singles and also one of their albums too. i think i was around 12 or 13 at the time.i also saw them in concert as well, that was around the time of the single 'action.'on that particular tour i listened to an interview on the radio with them. at one stage they complained that queen had nicked 'their' sound by using so many harmonies in their songs!!!even recently i read an andy scott interview and he's still moaning about queen! what a joke!he's obviously pissed off that the sweet weren't/aren't as popular as queen.its not as if they had a monopoly on vocal harmonies.i only have a greatest hits lp of theirs now. they had some really good songs, one or two quite heavy. my favourite song of theirs is 'turn it down', which is one of their more heavier tunes. Hi purplepiepete Sweet and Queen certainly had some similarities, and Queen may have been influenced by Sweet given they were the just about the biggest thing in the UK in 1973 before Queen broke, but that was all. Queen certainly went to places that Sweet never went in their career. Here is a link to a discussion off the Sweet Forum which discusses whether Queen were influenced by Sweet. The first two pages are probably the most relevant, although it does come back to discuss Queen a few more times in the thread. link Just on Andy Scott, he has changed his tune in relation to Queen. In fact, just the other day after the Rock Against Cancer event he said that playing guitar next to Brian May in the encore to the Rock Against Cancer Concert was about as good as it gets as per this link: link Just on Turn It Down, have you ever seen the live version off The Geordie Scene programme? It's so cool! Check it out: link |
| purplepiepete 23.06.2012 18:22 |
slade were my favourite band of that era. unfortunately coz they dressed in ridiculous looking clothes[like many of the bands] i don't think they are ever taken seriously. however they had the two best songwriters of that time, the greatest singer, and the most powerful tunes around for a while. trivia. noddy from slade was approached by ac/dc to replace bon after he'd died. i think nod would of ended up being board in the band, although his voice would've suited and he had that cheeky larrikin character like bon did. |
| purplepiepete 23.06.2012 18:30 |
as for sweet fans thinking queen ripped them off??? what a joke. thats like comparing the beatles to the wurzels ffs! did the sweet rip off the beatles? the fab four had high pitched harmonies at times too. its all sour grapes. you only have to look at andy scotts face, it shows a lifetime of bitterness. this type of thing really makes me sick! get over it sweet fans who believe this. your band and its material simply wasn't quite good enough. simple as that! nothing wrong with the sweet, but queen and most of their songs are on a different level. |
| Heavenite 24.06.2012 08:56 |
Hi Purplepiepete Queen and Sweet are my two favourite bands, and I certainly don't think Queen ripped Sweet off. Influenced maybe, but that is a compliment, not an insult. And I'm not sure how much of the thread that I supplied that you read, but it is clear that most of the Sweet fans on there love Queen and don't regard them as having ripped Sweet off at all. However what might surprise you is that the success story is the other way around in Germany where, just as unfairly, Queen has often been regarded as a Sweet copy (not me, that's for sure!). Sweet was incredibly successful in Germany and had no less than 7 number 1's (even more in Denmark). A comparison of the chart history for the singles success of each of the bands in Germany is also very lop sided towards Sweet in that respect. Even more incredibly, in recent years Germans have voted Sweet the most popular band of the 70's and and have also voted them as high as the third most popular band of all time (I have a feeling that Queen weren't in the top 100 in the 1970's period). So while your Beatles/Wurzels comparison might be a pretty common one in the UK, it is probably not a balanced one from the overall European perspective. As a huge Queen fan, I think Sweet really did have something special to offer, as so many on this thread also seem to as well. I'm not sure how much of their stuff you know, but I think they have some absolutely wonderful albums in their discography, as Queen surely does. Significantly Brian May also wrote some words at the time of Brian Connolly's death, when he said that Sweet put out some of the best songs of its time. What's more Queen quoted Andy Scott in the Queen Bio released in the 1990's when Andy said that Sweet opened the door and Queen rushed by them leaving them holding the door handle. I doubt that would have been included in a Queen biography if they thought that statement was a crock. As far as Slade goes, from what I know of them, I certainly like them and agree they are a very good band. I have a copy of Slade in Flame, which I think is absolutely great. But as good as they are, I much prefer bands with more melodic vocals and harmonies like Sweet and Queen and the Freddie Mercury/Brian Connolly style of "sweet" sounding singer. Not that Noddy Holder or Bon Scott are bad or anything. Far form it. As an Aussie I know Bon particularly well and he is a legend. But those heavier rock voices are just not my absolute favourites. I also like the sort of guitar solos that Brian May and Andy Scott were so fond of in the early to mid 70's. Wonderful stuff! I'm not completely sure, but based on Slade in Flame, I don't think the Slade guitarist was ever really into that sort of thing. |
| Heavenite 24.06.2012 09:22 |
Hi again Purplepiepete I forgot to mention that Slade's current lead singer Mal McNulty was in Sweet and then later its lead singer for a while. But while he was quite good, I think he suits Slade far more than Sweet. The other thing I wanted to mention is I wonder if you knew that the current lineups of Slade and Sweet are doing an extensive tour of the UK later this year. As two of the pre-eminent glam bands before Queen's arrival on the scene, I think its really good to see them touring together. Not sure how many orignal Slade members are left though. Sweet has just the one with Andy Scott, although that latest song I put up above shows he is still ensuring the standard is right up there. |
| brENsKi 24.06.2012 10:26 |
purplepiepete wrote: as for sweet fans thinking queen ripped them off??? what a joke. thats like comparing the beatles to the wurzels ffs! .haha, you're funny. no it's nothing like comparing the beatles to the wurzels. |
| purplepiepete 24.06.2012 11:09 |
how about the beatles and the rubettes then? last time i looked there were two original slade members in 'slade', the guitarist and the drummer. believe it or not i think the sweet were absolutely fantastic at their peak. actually at the time they would of been my second favourite group. |
| Heavenite 25.06.2012 04:14 |
Hi again Purplepiepete I am glad that you rated Sweet so highly years ago. As I said, check out the song I placed on here from their latest cover albu if you haven't. It definitely seems to be a return to form to me. I love Andy's guitar on this album. Regarding your comparison to the Rubettes now (instead of The Wurzels), I was just wondering how much Sweet you really know. I mean, have you listened to many of their albums at all? I say that, because Sweet attempted to change their direction from an emphasis on singles to albums after their biggest glam rock successes. And while this didn't turn out to be all that successful unfortunately, I and many others have a very high respect for those albums. One thing that is particularly interesting about them is the evolution of the band that occurred on them. In the 1970's they went from bubblegum to glam (melodic) rock to heavy metal, back to melodic rock, then semi classical AOR and finally prog. Many fans only like certain albums and were miffed wheh the style changed, but as a whole, they make an interesting body of work. I moved with the band at the time and love them all. PS Just to correct what I said earlier, Sweet actually had 8 number 1's in Germany (7 consecutively) and no less than 11 in Denmark. Just the one in the UK, but they also had 5 number 2's and many other chart hits of course. |
| purplepiepete 25.06.2012 06:46 |
i didn't literally mean they are like the rubettes or the wurzels, i was joking. i think i know a fair amount of their music from their golden period in the seventies. in fact i probably had everything they released from that time. well, from little willy to action anyway. plus two lps. i use to look forward to the b-sides of their singles, these were usually rockers, weren't they? i like 'need a lot of lovin,' burn on the flame,' 'new york connection,' 'sweet fa,' someone else will,' 'burning,'[especially like this one.] actually i think there is an album with all the b-sides on, i may have to buy it! slade. guitar solos were few and far between in slade. however the thing you do notice about the band is the guitars even without solos. loud and rocking rhythm and riffs, like my favourite, 'take me ba'k 'ome. also the guitars on 'slade alive' are rowdy and fantastic especially on their cover of 'born to be wild.' actually that was my very first lp. my favourite live album, i rarely like live records but that one is a corker. it was before they were famous. i love the tone of andy scott's guitar. |
| brENsKi 25.06.2012 10:16 |
the sweet had something, but didn't evolve quickly enough their early to mid 70s stuff, excellent and fully in keeping with the style of the times, Love Is Like....was cool but was really (as far as hits were concerned) their swansong slade were fun and noddy is a great british institution...their obsession with mis-spelled titles became a bit tired quickly. take the point about their "sound" - but there's a very curious drum sound on one of their later hits "c'est la vie" |
| purplepiepete 25.06.2012 11:13 |
bye, i'm leaving the forum. |
| Holly2003 25.06.2012 14:56 |
purplepiepete wrote: bye, i'm leaving the forum. I hope you enjoyed travelling with Queenzone Airlines. Please remember to take all your belongings with you as you leave. |
| brENsKi 25.06.2012 16:15 |
maybe he just wanted to achieve "rocker" status? 25 posts - that's affirmation |
| Hangman_96 25.06.2012 17:41 |
I wonder if he's ever going to achieve "Deity" status. |
| Heavenite 26.06.2012 08:18 |
brENsKi wrote:
the sweet had something, but didn't evolve quickly enough
their early to mid 70s stuff, excellent and fully in keeping with the style of the times, Love Is Like....was cool but was really (as far as hits were concerned) their swansong
slade were fun and noddy is a great british institution...their obsession with mis-spelled titles became a bit tired quickly. take the point about their "sound" - but there's a very curious drum sound on one of their later hits "c'est la vie"
Hi brENsKi Sweet deserted the UK and had only 1 concert on the UK mainland between 1975 and 1979 (inclusive). They focussed heavily on breaking into the US with huge tours in 1976 and 1978. In between they also released the 1977 album Off the Record, which was barely promoted at all and wasn't supported by a tour despie being quite a good album. Love is Like Oxygen was an interesting return for them in 1978 and might have heralded a new era for the band. But sadly Brian Connolly had developed a drinking problem and was sacked at the end of the year during the making of Cut Above The Rest. That album is one of my favourites, but without Brian it sank like stone and effectively meant the end of the classical lineup of the band as a mega selling act. However before leaving, Brian put down a couple of demos, one of which called "That Girl" may have been the next single. Check it out here> link The remaining three members limped on for two more albums before separating in 1981. |
| waunakonor 26.06.2012 21:51 |
I've known very little about Sweet until now, thanks for bringing it to my attention, guys. Maybe I'll find a new musical interest.
As for whether or not Queen ripped off Sweet or whatever: who the hell cares? No ideas are original at this point.
Also, on the forum one person said he didn't really care for the sound of Freddy's voice (I cringe whenever I see that) or Brian's guitar. He referred to it as an "acquired taste." Thought that was interesting.
sir john wrote: "Queen Are A Bunch Of Winkers"They do...wink a lot. brENsKi wrote: well done on reviving a 7½ yr dead, thread if you wanted to talk abou the Sweet why not start a new one? this has to be a new "regurgitate expired stuff" world record.... even Howard Carter, on breaking into Tutankhamun's tomb in 1922 found something newer than this threadI don't see the problem with reviving a really old thread as long as what you're adding is actually useful. Lostman wrote: I wonder if he's ever going to achieve "Deity" status.Someday, maybe I will be like one of the great Deities on this site. Sigh.... Maybe someday.... |
| Heavenite 28.06.2012 05:21 |
Hi Waunakonor Did you go ahead and get into some Sweet? Hope you did mate. They were very special. They are touring the UK in October/November with Slade, so they would be worth going to see as well. |
| Heavenite 20.08.2012 09:54 |
Hi again Waunakonor Just as a bit more of a tempter, here is Sweet's Action. Its a real screamer, and a helluva classic as well. link |
| waunakonor 25.08.2012 20:49 |
Ah! It took me a bit to figure out what you were talking about on the Man on the Prowl forum. Hi Heavenite: I've checked out a bunch of tracks on Youtube since I posted that. I generally like what I hear, and Action is a damn good song. Lots of backing vocals, I like that of course. I'll probably buy an album or two off itunes, and if I get really interested I may start buying some tangible albums (CDs and such). That's pretty much what I did when I was first getting into Queen. Thanks for that. Glad I got into them. |
| Heavenite 25.08.2012 22:07 |
Excellent! Glad to hear it Waunakonor. I guess the thing most people would do when deciding whether they liked a band would be to get a greatest hits album. The one I would suggest is called the complete a's and b sides, as most of the b-sides never appeared on an album and are where a lot of the playing is. Although if you're pretty confident you like the band, maybe you can go straight to an album as well. If you're going to get an album (or get both), I would suggest the first album you get is Off the Record. Its a fun album with lots of variety and playing on it. The reason I suggest that one is its about Sweet in the middle. They got a whole lot softer on Level Headed and a whole lot heavier on Give Us A Wink. Its also a very popular album among Sweet's fans, largely I think because of its tunefuleness and also the band's great playing. The one to avoid initially is Desolation Boulevard (UK version) as it was released six months after Sweet Fanny Adams and isn't very well produced and was a bit incomplete I think. Its still got a few absolute crackers on it though. Anyway lots (but not all) people that love Sweet also love Queen and recently I have discovered on here that it seems to go both ways. Hope you're one of them mate. |
| brENsKi 26.08.2012 04:09 |
naturally, many bands sound like other bands, and it's always hard to say - in an era when many bands wer starting out at the same time - who actually influenced who? anyway, the sweet and queen do sound very alike in places, which is probably why i find i liked the sweet when growing up in the 70s.... some of sabbaths (dio) stuff verges into early queen territory also - die young, heaven and hell, children of the sea also if you want to try something a little different - but with a definite queen feel - try a band called storm....the two albums i have are called (imaginatively but not unlike queen) "storm" and storm II" - they're a fusion of queen and zep i think and although the albums come from 79 and 83, they have a disctinctive early 70s feel |
| Heavenite 26.08.2012 05:23 |
Hi brENski Thanks for the heads up mate. I'll definitely grab for the first of those Storm albums if I can and see what I think. Always good to get some new leads on music people think I might like. I like what I've heard of Ronnie Dio, which is basically his Holy Diver album and I also think he sang the lead vocals on the Black Sabbath album Headless Cross. He's definitely another I want to hear a lot more of, both in Black Sabbath and in his own band. I also heard a song called Lady of the Lake, which I think he did with Rainbow (not the Sweet version), which was also pretty fantastic, so I might have to look at them as well. On the matter of who influenced who, Andy Scott used to swear Queen copied Sweet, but apparently people would tell Sweet they sounded like Queen. However in recent years I think his view has softened and he was pretty chuffed to be sharing a stage with Brian May recently at Concert at the Kings. |
| Lord Fickle 26.08.2012 10:36 |
Heavenite wrote:I like what I've heard of Ronnie Dio, which is basically his Holy Diver album and I also think he sang the lead vocals on the Black Sabbath album Headless Cross. He's definitely another I want to hear a lot more of, both in Black Sabbath and in his own band. I also heard a song called Lady of the Lake, which I think he did with Rainbow (not the Sweet version), which was also pretty fantastic, so I might have to look at them as well. Sorry to butt in, but Dio wasn't on Headless Cross, that was Tony Martin, but the comparison is understandable. The Black Sabbath albums Dio was on, are Heaven and Hell, Mod Rules, Live Evil, and Dehumaniser. He also teamed back up with them more recently to form Heaven and Hell (the band), which was the last time Dio played live. Of the Sabbath albums, Heaven and Hell (the album) is the best (imo), but Mob Rules and Dehumaniser are worth checking out. :) |
| brENsKi 26.08.2012 13:23 |
the three tracks imentioned are ALL on the first dio/sabbs album...Heaven & Hell they are really good examples of the great quality of his voice also, the first three Rainbow albums - are worth a go...but esp "Rising" and "Long Live Rock and Roll" Rising - has two absolute classics in - Stargazer (a song about the tower of Babel) and A Light In The Black - which feels like a natural sequel...the vocals on both are amazing and Cozy's drumming on ALITB is blitzkreig to say the least...Blackmore employs his famed Turkish/Asian style guitar playing to great effect. As for LLRnR - there's some quality songs on there too - the title track, Lady of the Lake, Kill The King, and the incredible Gates of Babylon...but if you want a queen parallel - Rainbow Eyes is the one....it's not unlike White Queen.... and don't forget to get the Black Sabbath - Heaven & Hell album from 1979 enjoy!!! |
| Heavenite 26.08.2012 21:15 |
Hi Lord Fickle Thanks for ironing out those Black Sabbath facts for me. So I haven't actually got a Black Sabbath album with Dio on it then. Apart from Headless Cross, the only two other albums I've got of their's are possibly the two most famous - Paranoid and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath with Ozzy on vocal. I particularly like Paranoid with Iron Man and War Pigs on it. Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is not bad either. I particularly like the title track and Fluff on that one. Funny how when a heavy metal band like Sabbath do a cutesy little song like Fluff, they do such a great job of it. I remember something similar happening on a Bread album. Such a soft rock MOR band, yet this one song (can't remember its name) was a real rocker and they did it perfectly. |
| Heavenite 26.08.2012 21:24 |
Hi brENski Thanks for your info as well. Looks like Heaven and Hell is another overdue album for me. I know people often refer to that one along with Paranoid and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, so its probably time to get the last of the "big three" then. I'm not surprised to hear what you say about Dio with Rainbow either. That song Lady of the Lake was really out of the box, as far as I'm concerned. I also heard people referring to Dio as "Stargazer" at the time of his death, so it sounds like your opinion on that track is fairly universal. And getting into something as good as White Queen has got to be a priority too. I absolutely love White Queen (along with March of the Black Queen and Nevermore) so I've got to have a listen to Rainbow Eyes. |
| Lord Fickle 27.08.2012 11:19 |
Rainbow Eyes is a beautiful piece. Personally, I would offer a comparison to the quiet part of Stairway To Heaven. :) I've never really been into Sabbath with Ozzy. Not too keen on all the doom stuff, and Ozzy isn't exactly in Dio's league, in terms of vocal qualities lol! Certainly check out any Dio era Rainbow or Sabbath, and also the early Dio 'solo' albums, but his later stuff was a bit stale, in my opinion, and he tried to move away from the 'fantasy' lyrics which he was so good at. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, is my motto! ;) Oh, and to bring the thread full circle, so to speak, an interesting fact is that Dio was asked to join The Sweet after Brian Connolly left (or, was fired), but turned down the offer and joined Sabbath instead. |
| Heavenite 27.08.2012 21:16 |
Hi again Lord Fickle From what I have heard of Dio I might also put him ahead of Ozzy, although Ozzy has an increbibly distinctive voice. Quite possibly its the Rainbow stuff that intrigues me most, although I was looking at a copy of Heaven and Hell yesterday but baulked at the cost of the Expanded edition. Might just get a regular copy to start with as they seem to be as cheap as chips. Interesting the different stories we hear. Coming from the Sweet end, it was Dio, who had struck hard times, that wanted to join Sweet, not the other way around. That's the way Andy Scott describes it. If true, its certainly a decision he has lived to regret! |
| brENsKi 28.08.2012 14:01 |
i wouldn't touch the expanded version of sabb's heaven and hell...it's just a load of live stuff if you want a good copy of the original: only £4.07 link ...and there really isn't a bad track on this album as regards rainbow: £2.60 & £2.64 link link if you have a tenner to spare - get all three...honestly, you'll love it |
| brENsKi 28.08.2012 14:09 |
i don;t understand the Andy Scott perspective - unless it's a bit of bravado? Dio had just left Rainbow and was far from "on hard times", in fact he was certainly making more money thatn Sweet were at that time...sweet had (until LILO in june 78) had not had a top ten hit for over 3 yrs in the UK.... Dio had come off the back of a gold and silver UK album, in truth all four Rainbow albums that Dio was on (incl on stage) all made the UK top 20... not ONE sweet (non compilation) album made the UK top 20 |
| Lord Fickle 28.08.2012 14:27 |
I can't point to any evidence to back up either version, but like Brenski, I can't really see that Dio was desperate for work, given the success of the Rainbow albums. Indeed, Dio left Rainbow because Blackmore wanted to go in a more commercial direction, so I can't really see him leaving one 'pop' band (as it was turning into) for another, such as Sweet, despite the 'rock' respect they were gathering at the time, mainly for the albums and single b sides. Can't really see Dio singing Little Willy or Wig Wam Bam (lol!), and can't really see Sweet doing the dungeons and dragons stuff either. The two just weren't suited, although, there are rumours of some existing audition tapes that would be very interesting to hear. |
| brENsKi 28.08.2012 16:58 |
those would be great tapes to get hold of "High noon Oh I'd sell my soul for water Nine years' worth Of breakin' my back Ho-chi-ka-ka-ho Co-Co Ho-chi-ka-ka-ho Co-Co Ho-chika-ka-ho go go Co-Co" |
| Lord Fickle 28.08.2012 17:03 |
PMSL!! |
| Lord Fickle 28.08.2012 17:05 |
Just thinking about this - most of my favourite singers are dead! How fucking tragic is that! |
| brENsKi 28.08.2012 17:13 |
that's the way it goes...also a "time of life" things for me most of my favourite artists have passed on dio, rhoads, brad delph, freddie, rick wright, jon lord, warren zevon, rory gallagher, phil lynott and garry moore, george harrison, roy orbison.... |
| Lord Fickle 28.08.2012 17:43 |
Yup, to name but a few. I'd add Cozy Powell, John Bonham, Bon Scott... |
| Heavenite 29.08.2012 08:47 |
brENsKi wrote: i wouldn't touch the expanded version of sabb's heaven and hell...it's just a load of live stuff if you want a good copy of the original: only £4.07 link ...and there really isn't a bad track on this album as regards rainbow: £2.60 & £2.64 link link if you have a tenner to spare - get all three...honestly, you'll love it. Hi brENski I think you're right. I think I will love these albums. So I have ordered the first Storm album, Heaven and Hell and also both those Rainbow albums. I only got the single Heaven and Hell album as the expanded album was a lot more expensive and had only extra live cuts as you say. I used Ebay for the purchases as the prices were similar yet Amazon charges through the nose to send stuff here. |
| Heavenite 29.08.2012 09:01 |
brENsKi wrote: i don;t understand the Andy Scott perspective - unless it's a bit of bravado? Dio had just left Rainbow and was far from "on hard times", in fact he was certainly making more money thatn Sweet were at that time...sweet had (until LILO in june 78) had not had a top ten hit for over 3 yrs in the UK.... Dio had come off the back of a gold and silver UK album, in truth all four Rainbow albums that Dio was on (incl on stage) all made the UK top 20... not ONE sweet (non compilation) album made the UK top 20 Hi again brENski You are right about Sweet's non compilation albums not making the top twenty in the UK (I think Sweet Fanny Adams charted for one week at number 27), but Sweet were still pretty big in the rest of Europe, and especially in Germany and Scandinavia where their albums certainly did make the top ten. Their is a rumour claimed as fact going around Sweet circles that Sweet was the largest grossing touring band in the world for the year in 1976 when they did a rather massive tour of the US (and a smaller one of Europe). I have just tried to verify that but have drawn a blank. In any event, there is no doubt that Sweet's income largely from touring went through the roof in 1976. Unfortunately they had already deserted English shores and had only one concert on the UK mainland between the years 1975 and 1979 inclusive. Incredible when you look at it in hindsight. A huge mistake really I think. Regarding Ronnie, having been sacked from Rainbow, maybe he felt a bit lost being outside a band. Even if he didn't, it may just be that Sweet was a band he wanted to join.I can't really say. However I will try and dig up something from the Sweet end on this. I almost seem to recall that Brian was still with the band when he supposedly made his offer, but then again maybe they just wanted to go on as a trio after Brian was left or was sacked. Will be interesting to see what I can come up with. |
| Heavenite 29.08.2012 09:14 |
Lord Fickle wrote: I can't point to any evidence to back up either version, but like Brenski, I can't really see that Dio was desperate for work, given the success of the Rainbow albums. Indeed, Dio left Rainbow because Blackmore wanted to go in a more commercial direction, so I can't really see him leaving one 'pop' band (as it was turning into) for another, such as Sweet, despite the 'rock' respect they were gathering at the time, mainly for the albums and single b sides. Can't really see Dio singing Little Willy or Wig Wam Bam (lol!), and can't really see Sweet doing the dungeons and dragons stuff either. The two just weren't suited, although, there are rumours of some existing audition tapes that would be very interesting to hear. Wow! I never knew there were audition tapes. Andy Scott keeps everything, so I am going to ask if anyone on the Sweet website knows about that. Seems unlikely to me that it got that far. But if there were audition tapes, that would suggest to me that he was trying to get into the band, rather than vice versa. The other thing is that my version of Holy Diver has Ronnie talking about his past and most particularly that it was the second time that he had been "booted out" of a band when he left Black Sabbath. Hence on that occasion he tried to form his own band with Dio. Now my impression from that tape is that he took getting "booted out" pretty badly, so I can imagine, especially the first time that happened that he may well have wanted to get into a band like Sweet. They had just been touring their heaviest album Give Us A Wink, which Andy has subsequently said was heavier than Purple at the time. The other thing is, Sweet wouldn't have been seen dead doing songs like Little Willy or Wig Wam Bam at that time. Funny (Funny)how things have gone in a circle in that respect. Another thing I would mention is that Ritchie Blackmore was in Rainbow with Dio before he got sacked. And it just so happens that Ritchie was a huge mate of The Sweet's, going back to his Deep Purple days. So maybe that influenced Ronnie's decision as well, especially if Brian Connolly had been sacked at that same time. It just made sense I think. Just to show what good mates Sweet were with Ritchie, here is a link to a Sweet concert in Santa Monica in 1976, where Ritchie Blackmore got up on stage with Sweet to pay tribute to Paul Kossoff from Free who had just died. link I have a copy of the whole concert and they miss a bit at the start when Brian Connolly is trying to get Ritchie up on stage and says something like "common fuckface". I think they must have been really good mates to have said something like that to each other. I'm also pretty sure that Blackmore was in Wainwright's Gentlemen (have to check), because if so, Brian and Ritchie actually knew each other and were in the same band before they joined Sweet and Purple. |
| Heavenite 29.08.2012 09:49 |
Hi again brENski and Lord Fickle Here is a thread from The Sweet Forum which refers to Ronnie and Sweet's rumoured connection. link While it is based on a quote from Wikipedia, obviously Wikipedia can be crap as it is written by ordinary people and sources can be dubious. Having said that, I do know that I have read an interview where Andy Scott says exactly the same thing. You will also note that a Sweet fan makes the point about Ronnie singing Wig Wam bam etc, but as I said, there was no way that would have happened at around the time of the mooted joining because Sweet completely rejected their bubblegum past. |
| brENsKi 29.08.2012 11:01 |
the Sweet were well past the sweet FA tour by the time Dio was "kicked out" of Rainbow he departed round about nov78-feb79, by which time sweet had released another album - level headed (very queen like in places) weren't they acutually recording the next album when BC left? my favourite song on the H&H album "children of the sea" is supposed to have come into being during his audition jam to join the band |
| Lord Fickle 29.08.2012 11:13 |
Heavenite wrote: Unfortunately they had already deserted English shores and had only one concert on the UK mainland between the years 1975 and 1979 inclusive. Incredible when you look at it in hindsight. A huge mistake really I think. That is incredible, as I was there! Feb 24th, 1978, Hammersmith Odeon. I hadn't realised it was their only UK gig for all that time. Glad I went now! Also, interesting to note reply #8 in the thread on the Sweet forum, seems to bear out the version of events being that Sweet approached Ronnie: "I already said it hear a few months ago that I spoke to Ronnie on the phone when he was on a live radio show here in NYC 8 years ago and he did say that he was approached by Andy and Mick about working with them but nothing came out of it. " I think it's probably one of those things that gets distorted with time, and one of the only people that knew for definite is dead, so we can only go on Andy Scott's version. I guess it's feasible that Sweet wanted to try to regain some 'heavy' status, by getting Dio on board, but then again, after Brian left, they could have gone in that direction as a threeosme, but didn't. Doesn't really matter, it never happened anyway. :) |
| brENsKi 29.08.2012 12:51 |
some songs: dream on, silver bird have a disctinctly "queen" feel about them either musically, or harmony air on a loop - feels a bit 10cc/ELO/JM Jarre feel and the doobie/steely dan/purple mkIV funk thing definitely slipped into, oxygen, strong love, california nights and fountain reminds me of an old "jigsaw" song |
| Lord Fickle 29.08.2012 17:13 |
I have to say, the Level Headed album didn't really do it for me. I loved LILO, Silverbird, and Lady of the Lake, primarily because Brian sang on them, but I didn't really go much on the other tracks. Fountain wasn't bad, and apparently, Brian did do a vocal for that, but I don't think it's ever surfaced. |
| Heavenite 29.08.2012 19:24 |
brENsKi wrote: the Sweet were well past the sweet FA tour by the time Dio was "kicked out" of Rainbow he departed round about nov78-feb79, by which time sweet had released another album - level headed (very queen like in places) weren't they acutually recording the next album when BC left? my favourite song on the H&H album "children of the sea" is supposed to have come into being during his audition jam to join the band. It was also in late 1978 early 1979 that Sweet went back into the studio to record Cut Above the Rest. Brian made a few demos that were not deemed satisfactory. A huge mistake based on other factors I would think in hindsight. I have already placed a copy of the demo Brian on this thread. It is much better than Stay With Me version, that Steve sings on the final version of Cut Above the Rest, and a finished version may well have been a successful followup single to Love is Like Oxygen I think. So it seems that the timing was perfect with Ronnie. Andy says that he was the one that spoke to Ronnie about this, although I sort of doubt that they did demos because Steve Priest, the bassist in Sweet says he has subsequently spoken to Ronnie's wife, who says that no approach ever took place. If it did, then why doesn't Steve know about this and why does Ronnie's wife deny this ever happened? Well Steve Priest has had an axe to grind over the years with Andy, and he also had a relationship that was blooming with an American record exec, who is now his wife, so maybe he wasn't there at the time any approach or any demos were made. As far as what his wife said goes, well she was Ronnie's business and marketing person wasn't she? So getting booted out of two bands and then getting refused by another wouldn't look too good on the resume I guess. Alternatively, as with many husbands, maybe he never told her. Its doubtful we can ever know, unless Andy pulls out a demo from the session one day, but in any case, if Ronnie went to England to audition, I think it is much more likely that Sweet didn't agree to him joining because they were still getting over the loss of such an incredible singer as Brian Connolly. Maybe also Ronnie's harder rock sounding voice also didn't fit with the Sweet harmonies in quite the same way as Brian's did. And Sweet also still had two very good singers of their own in Andy Scott and Steve Priest but not to be compared with Brian of course. Don't know, but whatever happened at the time, Ronnie would have sent their hard rock cred. over the moon. The 1979 tour of the US for Sweet was apparently very difficult without a regular lead singer, as was their subsequent mini tour of the UK in early 1981. And when Andy and Mick reformed, they learnt their lesson and have always had a separate lead singer, and that has been the case up to today with Andy's version of the band. |
| Heavenite 29.08.2012 20:02 |
Lord Fickle wrote: Heavenite wrote: Unfortunately they had already deserted English shores and had only one concert on the UK mainland between the years 1975 and 1979 inclusive. Incredible when you look at it in hindsight. A huge mistake really I think. That is incredible, as I was there! Feb 24th, 1978, Hammersmith Odeon. I hadn't realised it was their only UK gig for all that time. Glad I went now! Also, interesting to note reply #8 in the thread on the Sweet forum, seems to bear out the version of events being that Sweet approached Ronnie:"I already said it hear a few months ago that I spoke to Ronnie on the phone when he was on a live radio show here in NYC 8 years ago and he did say that he was approached by Andy and Mick about working with them but nothing came out of it. I think it's probably one of those things that gets distorted with time, and one of the only people that knew for definite is dead, so we can only go on Andy Scott's version. I guess it's feasible that Sweet wanted to try to regain some 'heavy' status, by getting Dio on board, but then again, after Brian left, they could have gone in that direction as a threeosme, but didn't. Doesn't really matter, it never happened anyway. :) Hi Lord Fickle You were at the Hammersmith Odeon gig in 1978? You lucky so and so. It was a date that was added on to their European tour because of the success that they were having at home with Love is Like Oxygen. Andy has always regretted that gig or another from that tour was never filmed. Even the audio of it is dicey, and his offsider Kevin Smith has been trying to obtain the best copies of the audience tapes that night and make the best sounding concert they can from what is still available. Apparently some guy was there with an 8 track, but he has never surfaced. Maybe it was wiped years ago anyway. As far as what is said on The Sweet website goes, there was a lot of confusion about this there too. I was never really confident until Andy came out and explained it in an interview. But never a word about any demos that I can recall. I will see if anyone on The Sweet website can track down the particular interview when Andy explains his version of what happened. |
| Heavenite 29.08.2012 20:18 |
Hi again Lord Fickle and brENski Another interesting point should be made about Sweet's desertion of the UK during the years 1975 and 1979. They had two huge hits during that time with Fox in 1975 and Oxygen in 1978 and also had minor top forty hits with Action and Lies in Your Eyes, which did very well in toured countries like Germany (number 2 and number 5) and Denmark (ever better I think). People say Sweet lost it during this time, but I don't agree. They did two massive tours of the US in 1976 and 1978 with a few European and one English date thrown in. They also got to Japan in 1976. They didn't tour at all in 1977, despite releasing Off the Record. The point I want to make is that Queen never toured the US after 1982 through to the time they stopped touring in 1986 and well we know what happened to Queen's chart success during that time over there. The highest chart position they got was with Radio Ga Ga at number 16, which was a hit in the UK and also in many other places including Australia. So Sweet's chart performance in the UK is actually superior to Queen's chart performance in the US during their respective periods of non-touring (Hammersmith excepted of course), but the rock critics say that Sweet's demise was related to the parting of the ways with Chinn and Chapman. Bollocks I say. C&C were the masters of singles writing, no doubt about it. But in the three years after their break Sweet released Fox, Action and Andy co-wrote Oxygen. They also had singles from the Off the Record album (Lost Angels, Fever of Love and Stairway to the Stars) that charted just inside or outside the top ten in Germany. The first two songs also went top ten in Sweden. So personally I think Sweet has been harshly judged by the British music critics (as Queen was) and then didn't last long enough or completely take over the US to make them eat their words. Like Queen fortunately has done, starting from around the time of Live Aid I think. |
| Lord Fickle 30.08.2012 07:37 |
Heavenite wrote: Hi Lord Fickle You were at the Hammersmith Odeon gig in 1978? You lucky so and so. Yup, I was 13 at the time, and it was my very first gig. My older cousin took me on the back of his motor bike. Trouble was, we got there and realised we'd forgotten the tickets, so had a mad dash back through London to get them! Luckily, I think the band came on late, and we didn't miss anything. I remember being deaf for a couple of days afterwards lol! I was also thinking earlier, how interesting it would be to have the tables turned somewhat, and hear Brian Connolly singing stuff like Gates of Babylon, Stargazer, Man on the Silver Mountain, Kill The King, etc. I think he would have perhaps fitted in with Rainbow, better than Dio would have with Sweet. Now, there's a thought... :) |
| brENsKi 30.08.2012 11:01 |
the sweet missed the boat, and by 1979 it was way too late bands get taken seriously thru album sales...they never had a UK/USA top 10 album for five years i think...once they'd been established as a "singles-only" band it's difficult to undo |
| Heavenite 30.08.2012 18:15 |
Hi Lord Fickle That's a great story. You really were there at a piece of significant Sweet history. You would have seen a bunch of Level Headed tracks no doubt like Lady of the Lake and maybe even Fountain. Wow! They haven't played that sort of stuff, except for Love is Like Oxygen for years. Your experience also actually reminds me of the very first time I went to see what was left of Sweet myself. I jumped on a plane and saw them in Melbourne in 1985. Sweet were late on stage that night too, and didn't get on until way into the early hours. And secondly, my hearing was smashed for a couple of days. They were so loud. I haven't experienced anything like it before or since. Having said that, they really were fantastic! |
| Heavenite 30.08.2012 18:30 |
Hi brENski Sweet was as you say a singles band. Such bands only seem to have album success if they have a single that does well. Another one was 10CC. I have seen an article where Eric Stewart from that band laments how bands like Zeppelin and Floyd didn't need a massive single to have a huge album. Sadly Sweet never achieved album success in the UK/USA as you say and didn't seem to understand the importance of continuing to have singles success in order to potentially change that. Although, as I said, things were different in Germany and Scandinavia They certainly did have top ten albums success in those places. The other place where they had some success in the album charts was here in Australia. The Sweet Singles got to number 2 (number 25 for the year) and Strung Up got to number 9 , which wasn't bad for a double album. Check out this Wiki discography link for the details. link PS Also check out their singles success in Germany and Denmark while you're there. A run of seven number ones in a row in Germany (total 8) and a run of 10 number 1's in a row in Denmark (total 11). In 2008 they were also voted the first or second most popular band from the 70's in Germany, depending on the poll and the fourth or fifth most popular band of all time. Those polls had huge voter turnout as well. Not bad don't you think for a band whose classic lineup split at the end of 1978? |
| brENsKi 31.08.2012 06:53 |
well 10cc faired better in the albums charts - they had a run of six top ten albums in the UK (their home) thru the 70s and also did ok in the states making the billboard top 40 a couple of times |
| Heavenite 31.08.2012 07:56 |
Hi again brEnsksi 10CC certainly did do way better in the album charts in the UK and the US than Sweet did. But I think Eric Stewart's point is still valid in the sense that if they didn't have a hit single, then the album sank. I love 10CC too, by the way. The problem I think started for Sweet because they were transitioning from being a singles band. They were only releasing singles on their own back in 1973. If they had released an album at the time of their big glam rock hits back then, then maybe they would have got some momentum in the album charts too. (That certainly happened in Australia with The Sweet Singles in 1975, which was released while Fox was roaring up the charts to become the biggest song of the year in Oz). In 1974 they released Sweet Fanny Adams with no singles on it, and it charted at number 27 for only one week. Then no album was issued at the time of Fox On the Run the single's release, and even Action was released before Give Us A Wink, and only got to number 20 in the UK anyway. So the Wink album only had Lies in Your Eyes as a single to directly support it. And that song then only got to number 35 in the UK, whereas it went top 10 in Germany and Scandinavia as did the album in those places. Level Headed then never charted in the UK, despite the success of Love is Like Oxygen. Then incredibly a follow up single off the album was never released there. Almost as bad was the fact that in the territories where one was released, it didn't have Brian singing the vocal. California Nights with Steve Priest singing it, did very little. Even in Germany it only got to Number 23. I guess in hindsight its easy to say that should have been a sign not to sack Brian. So it was definitely a case of mistakes and missed opportunities with The Sweet, and this was especially the case with the UK's album charts. Yet they still did have some reasonable albums chart action in Germany, Scandinavia and Australia. And Desolation Boulevard got up to number 5 in Canada (probably because Little Willy was a million seller) and also went Gold in the US even though it only reached number 25. And Sweet have even managed to sell some albums in the UK over the years since then, as Sweet Fanny Adams has gone gold and Desolation Boulevard has managed to go silver. |
| Heavenite 31.08.2012 08:45 |
Sorry, double post. Please see below. |
| Heavenite 31.08.2012 08:52 |
brENsKi wrote: some songs: dream on, silver bird have a disctinctly "queen" feel about them either musically, or harmony air on a loop - feels a bit 10cc/ELO/JM Jarre feel and the doobie/steely dan/purple mkIV funk thing definitely slipped into, oxygen, strong love, california nights and fountain reminds me of an old "jigsaw" song Level Headed is not the most popular album with the fans on The Sweet Forum, possibly because it was too great a departure on their earlier stuff. But I think it showed that they were maturing as musicians and could do much more than just play melodic or heavy rock. The fans mainly prefer the demos to the album, before it got its acoustic and orchestral finish to it. Queen is never far away as Sweet's harmonies are pretty gorgeous on this album, especially for me on Dream On, Strong Love and Fountain. Re Air on A Tape Loop, Andy says that was Sweet doing Pink Floyd. I also always liked California Nights, but wasn't crazy about Silverbird, although lots of people say it should have been the followup single to Oxygen. I quite like the duet with Stevie Lange and I love Lady of the Lake, with Brian's vocal, the strings and the lovely Elizabethan feel to it. There is actually a lovely alternate version to that one as well, but it isn't on YouTube unfortunately. However the jewel of the album for me and most Sweet fans is definitely the extended version of Love is Like Oxygen. Super single and a lovely build up in the middle of the song. Sad to think this album never breached the top 50 in either the UK or the US. But its great that you know it despite its relative lack of success over there. |
| Heavenite 31.08.2012 09:35 |
Lord Fickle wrote: I have to say, the Level Headed album didn't really do it for me. I loved LILO, Silverbird, and Lady of the Lake, primarily because Brian sang on them, but I didn't really go much on the other tracks. Fountain wasn't bad, and apparently, Brian did do a vocal for that, but I don't think it's ever surfaced. Hi Lord Fickle You're not the only one not to really go for that album. But if you replaced Silverbird with California Nights, you would have my four favourites, probably with Dream On next. Do you also know Wink and Off the Record? They ARE popular amongst most Sweet fans. And the album they did while Brian was leaving called Cut Above The Rest just happens to be my favourite album, despite the vocals being distinctly weaker. Its a mix of pop, rock and even prog and includes the proggish Mother Earth and the anti-disco rant Discophony The latter has two interesting solos on the synth and guitar. Check out the links if you are interested. Mother Earth > link Discophony link |
| Heavenite 31.08.2012 11:30 |
Lord Fickle wrote: Heavenite wrote: Hi Lord FickleYou were at the Hammersmith Odeon gig in 1978? You lucky so and so. Yup, I was 13 at the time, and it was my very first gig. My older cousin took me on the back of his motor bike. Trouble was, we got there and realised we'd forgotten the tickets, so had a mad dash back through London to get them! Luckily, I think the band came on late, and we didn't miss anything. I remember being deaf for a couple of days afterwards lol!I was also thinking earlier, how interesting it would be to have the tables turned somewhat, and hear Brian Connolly singing stuff like Gates of Babylon, Stargazer, Man on the Silver Mountain, Kill The King, etc. I think he would have perhaps fitted in with Rainbow, better than Dio would have with Sweet. Now, there's a thought... :) Nice idea Lord Fickle! I only have Holy Diver at this point, but I think you're right. Brian seems to have had the "sweeter" voice of the two, but still seemed to be able to do the heavier stuff. Probably a bit like Freddie in that respect. Although apparently the heavier stuff contributed to his vocal problems, so maybe he wouldn't have been up for the touring so much. |
| brENsKi 31.08.2012 16:16 |
Lord Fickle wrote: I was also thinking earlier, how interesting it would be to have the tables turned somewhat, and hear Brian Connolly singing stuff like Gates of Babylon, Stargazer, Man on the Silver Mountain, Kill The King, etc. I think he would have perhaps fitted in with Rainbow, better than Dio would have with Sweet. Now, there's a thought... :)it certainly is...although when you think how Bonnet only just got by on the older Rainbow stuff live (and he had a great set of pipes on him) makes me wonder how Connolly's voice woulda coped |
| Lord Fickle 31.08.2012 16:41 |
Heavenite wrote: Lord Fickle wrote: Heavenite wrote: Hi Lord FickleYou were at the Hammersmith Odeon gig in 1978? You lucky so and so. Yup, I was 13 at the time, and it was my very first gig. My older cousin took me on the back of his motor bike. Trouble was, we got there and realised we'd forgotten the tickets, so had a mad dash back through London to get them! Luckily, I think the band came on late, and we didn't miss anything. I remember being deaf for a couple of days afterwards lol!I was also thinking earlier, how interesting it would be to have the tables turned somewhat, and hear Brian Connolly singing stuff like Gates of Babylon, Stargazer, Man on the Silver Mountain, Kill The King, etc. I think he would have perhaps fitted in with Rainbow, better than Dio would have with Sweet. Now, there's a thought... :) Nice idea Lord Fickle! I only have Holy Diver at this point, but I think you're right. Brian seems to have had the "sweeter" voice of the two, but still seemed to be able to do the heavier stuff. Probably a bit like Freddie in that respect. Although apparently the heavier stuff contributed to his vocal problems, so maybe he wouldn't have been up for the touring so much. I think probably the chain-smoking and heavy drinking contributed more, according to an interview I saw recently with Steve Priest. Didn't he also sustain a throat injury in a brawl outside a nightclub in 1976? Seems that could have been where it all started going downhill for him. |
| Lord Fickle 31.08.2012 16:41 |
brENsKi wrote:Lord Fickle wrote: I was also thinking earlier, how interesting it would be to have the tables turned somewhat, and hear Brian Connolly singing stuff like Gates of Babylon, Stargazer, Man on the Silver Mountain, Kill The King, etc. I think he would have perhaps fitted in with Rainbow, better than Dio would have with Sweet. Now, there's a thought... :)it certainly is...although when you think how Bonnet only just got by on the older Rainbow stuff live (and he had a great set of pipes on him) makes me wonder how Connolly's voice woulda coped Yes, I was thinking more the '73-'77 Connolly voice, while it was still in good shape, though, you're right, he probably wasn't a match for Dio. Who was? |
| Lord Fickle 31.08.2012 17:01 |
Heavenite wrote: Lord Fickle wrote: I have to say, the Level Headed album didn't really do it for me. I loved LILO, Silverbird, and Lady of the Lake, primarily because Brian sang on them, but I didn't really go much on the other tracks. Fountain wasn't bad, and apparently, Briandid do a vocal for that, but I don't think it's ever surfaced. Hi Lord Fickle You're not the only one not to really go for that album. But if you replaced Silverbird with California Nights, you would have my four favourites, probably with Dream On next. Do you also know Wink and Off the Record? They ARE popular amongst most Sweet fans. And the album they did while Brian was leaving called Cut Above The Rest just happens to be my favourite album, despite the vocals being distinctly weaker. Its a mix of pop, rock and even prog and includes the proggish Mother Earth and the anti-disco rant Discophony The latter has two interesting solos on the synth and guitar. Check out the links if you are interested. Mother Earth >[url=http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=YreljWuvfMs%5B/url][url=http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=YreljWuvfMs%5B/url%5B/url][url=http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=YreljWuvfMs%5B/url%5B/url%5B/url] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YreljWuvfMs[/url[/url[/url]]] Discophony http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIGbVivbTXw Yes, I know all of their material intimately. I am lucky enough to be of an age where I bought all the records as they came out, so I followed the band's career in 'real time', so to speak. I still have GUAW in it's original 'slide up' sleeve, which gave the appearance of the winking eyes. I loved the albums, and especially collecting all the different versions of songs like Action, the Strung Up version of which still eludes me in CD or digital format. I always felt, however, that the real rockers on those LPs, namely, White Mice and She Gimme Lovin', were a bit of a let down, and could have been done much better - give them a better production, and a proper, non-fade, ending, for a start. That said, the remasters do sound a lot better than the originals, and they have matched the audio dynamics on the tracks very well, given the diversity of the production values on the original releases. Sorry, I'm getting a bit geeky now, but the overall sound of a recording does as much for me as the quality of the performance and composition. Windy City, Live for Today, Lost Angels, to name a few, all sound as fresh today as when they were recorded (same as many of the old Queen recordings), but some of 'Wink', was quite 'muddy' in it's sound, and White Mice lacked the punch that a track like that needs. It would be great to get hold of some stems for Sweet stuff, but I don't know if any exist. |
| Lord Fickle 31.08.2012 18:11 |
Here's a clip, and great version I hadn't heard before. This is comparable with the Queen BBC version of GOFLB, in that it's much better than the original! Just listen to Mick's drumming. That guy was phenomenal, and never really got the recognition he deserved. I know this isn't actually live, but it's a great sounding re-recorded audio. link |
| Heavenite 31.08.2012 19:47 |
brENsKi wrote: Lord Fickle wrote: I was also thinking earlier, how interesting it would be to have the tables turned somewhat, and hear Brian Connolly singing stuff like Gates of Babylon, Stargazer, Man on the Silver Mountain, Kill The King, etc. I think he would have perhaps fitted in with Rainbow, better than Dio would have with Sweet. Now, there's a thought... :) it certainly is...although when you think how Bonnet only just got by on the older Rainbow stuff live (and he had a great set of pipes on him) makes me wonder how Connolly's voice woulda coped Yes, I doubt it would have brENski. Brian's voice is completely shot in some of the soundboard recordings in 1976 when they were touring Give Us A Wink. |
| Heavenite 31.08.2012 20:24 |
Lord Fickle wrote: Heavenite wrote: Lord Fickle wrote: Heavenite wrote: Hi Lord FickleYou were at the Hammersmith Odeon gig in 1978? You lucky so and so. Yup, I was 13 at the time, and it was my very first gig. My older cousin took me on the back of his motor bike. Trouble was, we got there and realised we'd forgotten the tickets, so had a mad dash back through London to get them! Luckily, I think the band came on late, and we didn't miss anything. I remember being deaf for a couple of days afterwards lol!I was also thinking earlier, how interesting it would be to have the tables turned somewhat, and hear Brian Connolly singing stuff like Gates of Babylon, Stargazer, Man on the Silver Mountain, Kill The King, etc. I think he would have perhaps fitted in with Rainbow, better than Dio would have with Sweet. Now, there's a thought... :) Nice idea Lord Fickle! I only have Holy Diver at this point, but I think you're right. Brian seems to have had the "sweeter" voice of the two, but still seemed to be able to do the heavier stuff. Probably a bit like Freddie in that respect. Although apparently the heavier stuff contributed to his vocal problems, so maybe he wouldn't have been up for the touring so much. I think probably the chain-smoking and heavy drinking contributed more, according to an interview I saw recently with Steve Priest. Didn't he also sustain a throat injury in a brawl outside a nightclub in 1976? Seems that could have been where it all started going downhill for him. Hi Lord Fickle: Yes, Steve did say it was the smoking. But a few people on the Sweet website swear it wasn't. I recently asked on here if the changes in Freddie's voice on a Kind Of Magic and Miracle on songs like One Year of Love and Breakthru were smoking related, although the response was more that his voice was steadily lowering as he got older. So maybe that was also true of Brian to some extent. Although I have read something that Andy Scott said back then to the effect that he had never heard a voice lose its range faster than Brian's did after the stomping it took in that nightclub incident. So that's often regarded as the start of the process of deterioration. The brawl was actually during the making of Sweet Fanny Adams back in 1974 and Steve had to do some of the vocals for him because Brian's vocal cords were still swollen. As a result, Andy didn't get to rock with The Who, as they had to cancel an offer which they had accepted from Pete Townshend to play with them at a big gig in Charlton. A bit unforgiveable and both Steve and Andy regard that as a critical point and the start of the band's demise. |
| Heavenite 31.08.2012 21:00 |
Lord Fickle wrote: Yes, I know all of their material intimately. I am lucky enough to be of an age where I bought all the records as they came out, so I followed the band's career in 'real time', so to speak. I still have GUAW in it's original 'slide up' sleeve, which gave the appearance of the winking eyes. I loved the albums, and especially collecting all the different versions of songs like Action, the Strung Up version of which still eludes me in CD or digital format.I always felt, however, that the real rockers on those LPs, namely, White Mice and She Gimme Lovin', were a bit of a let down, and could have been done much better - give them a better production, and a proper, non-fade, ending, for a start. That said, the remasters do sound a lot better than the originals, and they have matched the audio dynamics on the tracks very well, given the diversity of the production values on the original releases. Sorry, I'm getting a bit geeky now, but the overall sound of a recording does as much for me as the quality of the performance and composition. Windy City, Live for Today, Lost Angels, to name a few, all sound as fresh today as when they were recorded (same as many of the old Queen recordings), but some of 'Wink', was quite 'muddy' in it's sound, and White Mice lacked the punch that a track like that needs. It would be great to get hold of some stems for Sweet stuff, but I don't know if any exist. Hi again Lord Fickle I followed Sweet from Fox in 1975, but I only really started to get into their albums a year or so later when my sister bought me a copy of The Sweet Singles. I then borrowed a guy at school's Level Headed and was hooked. If you have all the different versions of Action etc., then you are a true Sweet fan. No doubt about it. Cos there are heaps on albums like the CDR Level Headed Rehearsals etc. In relation to Strung Up, it seems that Steve released a copy of the album quite a few years ago now, but it has the single's ending on Action, rather than the non fadeout ending that was originally the case with the LP. It is pretty rare actually, and I posted a piccie of mine that I bought off Ebay on Sweet's website a couple of years ago. It has no label on it, but does mention Chinebridge Records (not Ltd) on the cover, It is regarded as a bootleg by many on the Sweet site. I'm not entirely sure whether it is or isn't. Here is a link that includes an upload of my copy. link The discussion about Strung Up on the thread basically came about by accident, as you will see. There is a also Japanese version of Strung Up called Anthology, which also has the single's ending to Action unfortunately. So, as far as I am aware of, noone has the Strung Up ending of Action on CD. Here is a copy of the LP version on Ebay at the moment, but the CD also definitely exists. Note that it is not the same as the recent greatest hits release also called Anthology, which incidently got a 4 star rating from Rolling Stone. link Give Us A Wink is often regarded as a poorly produced album. A bit muddy as you say. I'm not a techo in this respect, but someone on the Sweet website redid the drumming on Healer, and the thing sprang out of the speakers like you wouldn't believe. Only problem was it wasn't Mick Tucker doing the drumming any more, just someone imitating him. I love the playing on White Mice off Wink, but Keep It In and 4th of July are the album tracks that really hit the spot for me (and Action of course). Regarding Off the Record, I think the vocals on She Gimme Lovin' are a bit overproduced. I much prefer Midnight to Daylight (especially some of the alternative versions with the explicit lyrics), Windy City, Hard Times and Laura Lee. Lost Angels was a song that has everything except for the kitchen sink, and Fever of Love has a gorgeous melody that took Sweet back into the top ten in South Africa after they had missed since Fox on the Run with the heavier Action, Lies in Your Eyes and Lost Angels. I really love Off the Record, as do most Sweet fans, because of its great vocals and melodies as the excellent playing on it. |
| Heavenite 31.08.2012 22:00 |
Hi again to both of you guys. Just on the matter of what happened with Dio, one of the guys on the Sweet website who wrote the definitive book on their career says he actually contacted Dio who confirmed that discussions were held. I will read the book again and see what details there are on what happened. And another one of the Sweet stalwarts says he has a tape where Andy Scott discussed it. So it may be that we will get some answers on what actually occurred between the two parties at the time. |
| Lord Fickle 01.09.2012 03:13 |
Hi Heavenite, I do have the original Strung Up LP, but unfortunately, nothing to play it on now. It's strange that that version of Action never made it to another of the many compilation CDs that have been released. Another Strung Up exclusive, I believe, is the full version of I Wanna Be Committed, which ends without a fade, but I did manage to find that on YouTube, which I ripped the audio from. Is there a list anywhere, perhaps on the Sweet forums, of all the different versions of tracks? I know there are many, but I'm more interested in 'official' versions, rather than bootlegs, such as the extra guitar overdubbed version of Solid Gold Brass on the Collection CD. |
| Lord Fickle 01.09.2012 03:30 |
Oh, and according to Wiki, Strung Up also had an American CD release. Anyone know if this contained the original Strung Up version of Action? |
| Heavenite 01.09.2012 09:07 |
Lord Fickle wrote: Hi Heavenite, I do have the original Strung Up LP, but unfortunately, nothing to play it on now. It's strange that that version of Action never made it to another of the many compilation CDs that have been released. Another Strung Up exclusive, I believe, is the full version of I Wanna Be Committed, which ends without a fade, but I did manage to find that on YouTube, which I ripped the audio from. Is there a list anywhere, perhaps on the Sweet forums, of all the different versions of tracks? I know there are many, but I'm more interested in 'official' versions, rather than bootlegs, such as the extra guitar overdubbed version of Solid Gold Brass on the Collection CD. Hi Lord Fickle I am pretty sure that the reason that the Strung Up version of Action has never made it to CD's is because it was considered inferior to the excellent ending on the single and the updated version on Give Us a Wink. Of course completists like me, and also apparently like you, want the "weaker version" on CD as well. But it has not been forthcoming to date as far as I am aware, even on Strung Up or Anthology. And I only know of Strung Up holding the full version of "I Wanna Be Committed". Although there are so many compilations out there. I would be very surprised if at least one doesn't have it on CD somewhere. Gosh, I might even have one. Now I don't think I know the Collection CD you are referring to, as there are so many of them. But the one called Collection that I own, was pretty much Sweet Fanny Adams with a few extra tracks. But are you sure you're not forgetting that the Strung Up version of Solid Gold Brass does sound somewhat "improved" when compared to the old Desolation Boulevard (UK) version? I mean that may just be the extra guitar overdub you are referring to, especially if you haven't played your LP copy of Strung Up in a long while. If so, then you do already have the Strung Up version of Solid Gold Brass. Now regarding your request for an official list that excludes stuff like demos, alternate versions and outtakes, well its not that simple with Sweet unfortunately. This is because so much of the stuff got licensed out or was released unofficially in the 90's. To make matters worse, the band has taken over control of its product in recent years to the point that just about everything is official, Even old soundboard recordings and bootlegged copies from the audience are released on CDR through the Sweet website these days. So because of the early end of Sweet's classic lineup, outtakes, alternative versions and demos have pretty much become the things that people are interested in these days, in order to get as much of the original band as possible. Its not like Queen in that respect, where there still appear to be many songs that have never been released because they are not viewed as being up to scratch as an official release. So many of the authorised CDs through a record company that came out in the 1990's, such as "Platinum Rare", "The Private Collection" and "Live For Today", largely only hold alternate versions, demos and outtakes, with just the odd song that never made it to one of the singles, b-sides or the nine original LPs being included. If you are still interested in that sort of stuff, there is a guy called Andreas Spies, who set up a website to help Sweet fans sort through the minefield of the different recordings. But as I said, that site would mostly regard alternate versions and outtakes as worth collecting. However it would still be worth a look I think. In more recent years, Andy has taken over the release of Sweet product, and it is only released on CD-R on the current band's website (apart from the new cover album of course, which is on CD, but still not released through a record company). This includes all the stuff off the original master reels that Andy has kept, along with soundboard recordings and some bootleg live recording as well. Some of the live rehearsal stuff is actually pretty special I think, but it really depends on how far you want to go. Hope the above is clear mate. |
| Heavenite 01.09.2012 09:22 |
Lord Fickle wrote: Oh, and according to Wiki, Strung Up also had an American CD release. Anyone know if this contained the original Strung Up version of Action? Hi again Just on this point, Steve owns the rights to the name The Sweet in America, whereas Andy owns them in Europe. So the copy of Strung Up I was telling you about earlier is almost certainly the official release of the album in the US. Its just been released by the Steve rather than through a record company. Unfortunately, as I said, this version of Strung Up, doesn't have the original version of Action on it and nor does the Japanese album called Anthology. Disapponting I know. |
| Lord Fickle 01.09.2012 16:23 |
Heavenite wrote: Hi Lord Fickle I am pretty sure that the reason that the Strung Up version of Action has never made it to CD's is because it was considered inferior to the excellent ending on the single and the updated version on Give Us a Wink. Of course completists like me, and also apparently like you, want the "weaker version" on CD as well. But it has not been forthcoming to date as far as I am aware, even on Strung Up or Anthology. And I only know of Strung Up holding the full version of "I Wanna Be Committed". Although there are so many compilations out there. I would be very surprised if at least one doesn't have it on CD somewhere. Gosh, I might even have one. Now I don't think I know the Collection CD you are referring to, as there are so many of them. But the one called Collection that I own, was pretty much Sweet Fanny Adams with a few extra tracks. But are you sure you're not forgetting that the Strung Up version of Solid Gold Brass does sound somewhat "improved" when compared to the old Desolation Boulevard (UK) version? I mean that may just be the extra guitar overdub you are referring to, especially if you haven't played your LP copy of Strung Up in a long while. If so, then you do already have the Strung Up version of Solid Gold Brass. Now regarding your request for an official list that excludes stuff like demos, alternate versions and outtakes, well its not that simple with Sweet unfortunately. This is because so much of the stuff got licensed out or was released unofficially in the 90's. To make matters worse, the band has taken over control of its product in recent years to the point that just about everything is official, Even old soundboard recordings and bootlegged copies from the audience are released on CDR through the Sweet website these days. So because of the early end of Sweet's classic lineup, outtakes, alternative versions and demos have pretty much become the things that people are interested in these days, in order to get as much of the original band as possible. Its not like Queen in that respect, where there still appear to be many songs that have never been released because they are not viewed as being up to scratch as an official release. So many of the authorised CDs through a record company that came out in the 1990's, such as "Platinum Rare", "The Private Collection" and "Live For Today", largely only hold alternate versions, demos and outtakes, with just the odd song that never made it to one of the singles, b-sides or the nine original LPs being included. If you are still interested in that sort of stuff, there is a guy called Andreas Spies, who set up a website to help Sweet fans sort through the minefield of the different recordings. But as I said, that site would mostly regard alternate versions and outtakes as worth collecting. However it would still be worth a look I think. In more recent years, Andy has taken over the release of Sweet product, and it is only released on CD-R on the current band's website (apart from the new cover album of course, which is on CD, but still not released through a record company). This includes all the stuff off the original master reels that Andy has kept, along with soundboard recordings and some bootleg live recording as well. Some of the live rehearsal stuff is actually pretty special I think, but it really depends on how far you want to go. Hope the above is clear mate. Thanks, I'll check out Andreas Spies website. The Collection CD I referred to is then one by Castle Communications, and it contains the Strung Up version of Solid Gold Brass, but little else of much interest, as far as different versions go. I thought it had an alternative Lady Starlight, but I've just checked, and it hasn't. I know I've got that somewhere, but can't remember where! I do also have "Platinum Rare", and "The Private Collection", but a lot of my CDs have been boxed away, so I'll have to dig them out one day. |
| Heavenite 01.09.2012 21:10 |
Ah yes, I have checked that now, and that album called Collection is the one I've got, and yes it does seem like the Solid Gold Brass on that album would the one originally off Strung Up. Re the Andreas Spies site, the page that might be of most interest to you is under the Discography heading and is called "Unreleased". Although maybe "Previously Unreleased" might have been a better description of the items in that list. They are the alternative takes albums that do seem to have some value in the eyes of Sweet fans. The site is very easy to find, but here is the link for you. link Just on Lady Starlight, are you wanting the one wiht extra kayboards that was originally released on the American version of Give Us A Wink? If so, then a good album to pick the same or a very similar version is on Andy's solo album Thirty Years, which contains his solo singles work. You can usually get one off Ebay for not too much, or alternately you can go to "The Sweet Memorabilia Shop" and get one there. They have lots of interesting work on CD-R there too, although the Sweet's own site is usually a bit cheaper, but without the same range of product. Just went and checked for a copy of Andy Scott's Thirty Years, and they seem to be a lot harder to find than they used to be, But here is a link to it on Amazon, although the prices are outrageous. link |
| Lord Fickle 02.09.2012 01:59 |
Thanks. I did check out Andreas's site. A lot of the 'unreleased' CDs seem to contain duplicate material, but I've ordered Live for Today, which I didn't have. On that Sweet Merchandise site, there is a series of 'From the Vaults' CDs. Any idea what those are like? I've only really any interest in Sweet with BC, for that sort of thing. It's a long time since I've heard the alternative Lady Starlight, but I seem to recall it had more guitar, similar to the Strung Up Solid Gold Brass. |
| Heavenite 02.09.2012 06:56 |
Yes, a lot of the unreleased CDs do contain duplicate material. That's why Andreas's advice is quite useful I think. He tells you what's the same as something else and which ones don't have anything unusual or interesting on them. Having said that, if you find you're getting too much of the same thing, then it might be time to stop. The Vaults Series are the last ones out and appear to be close to the very last of the Sweet releases, although I could well be wrong in saying that. They seem to be adding to CDs that have already been released either to the market at large like Live for Today, or as an Andy-released CD-R just off the Sweet Website or through the Sweet Memorabilia Shop. The reason I think they might be the last is that Sweet have recently sold a whole lot of 8-Track Reels to the market, which were presumably the place on which a lot of this stuff was previously stored and is now digitised. I actually have a few of these Vaults CD-Rs and found them to be quite good and incremental to what I already had. If you want only the ones that Brian sang on, then its clear whether he's not on some, but on others you may need to ask. For instance, +6I think its Volume 3 that has lots of early Andy demos and is clearly marked. Its nascent Sweet, but there's no Brian on that whatsoever. A definite buy for me, but maybe not for you. The other ones that definitely won't have Brian on them are the Identity Crisis and Waters Edge volumes and the Cut Above the Rest tour rehearsals, as they are the two last Sweet albums from the trio and the tour after Brian was gone. The one that definitely will have Brian is the tape from TV appearances when Sweet were at their peak (although I don't have that one myself). With the others where Brian was a member of the band, there is still some risk that they may once again have no Brian, if they are Andy's home demos and not alternative versions. I would be happy to help you once I buy the whole set, but I'm not sure when that will happen at this point. In the meantime I suggest you get any of the Vaults CDs you want from Stewart at the The Sweet website. This is because he charges less for the CDs and also for postage. He is also usually quite willing to answer an email, if say you wanted to be sure if Brian was on the Off the Record demos (which I would think he would be). The Sweet Memorabilia Shop, on the other hand, tends to be a bit more expensive (especially postage), but it much more complete. Although there can also be a bit of crap on there. Unfortunately some of this crap is from Brian's version of Sweet and is just crowd recordings of a very poor quality. Both sites have some other nice material on them as well, quite a lot of which I already have. |
| Lord Fickle 02.09.2012 07:14 |
Thanks, Heavenite. I'm not that obsessive that I want everything, so I think the Vaults stuff is probably not for me. I think they would probably be a 'play once' purchase, and I don't know what to do with half of the CDs I've got already, so I'll give those a miss. |
| Heavenite 02.09.2012 07:41 |
No worries Lord Fickle. It certainly can go a bit far, especially when it all costs so much. Let me know if you do have any Sweet questions late on. But I forgot to answer you question about Lady Starlight. The alternative version I know has pretty much the same guitar but has a synth layering on it as well. Lots of American fans of Give Us A Wink were miffed when the remasters came out, as their original album has this on it as an extra track. Presumably it was there to soften the guitar and vocal assault on some of the other tracks...lol. Anyway, Stay Sweet as they say, but between hefty amounts of Queen, Sabbath and Rainbow of course. |
| Lord Fickle 02.09.2012 11:52 |
Yup, you're quite right, and thanks for pointing me in the right direction - I have the US CD of GUAW, and indeed, Starlight has additional keyboards. |
| Heavenite 02.09.2012 21:42 |
I think the one on Thirty Years is slightly different to the other two, but if it is, I can't tell the difference. |
| Lord Fickle 03.09.2012 08:06 |
Isn't that an Andy Scott release? All this has prompted me to make up a new iPod Sweet compilation - lol! Here's my playlist: Hell Raiser Yesterday's Rain Burn On The Flame Lost Angels Action Burning Solid Gold Brass Love Is Like Oxygen Live For Today Turn It Down Windy City Need A Lot Of Lovin' Set Me Free Sweet FA I think that would have also made a great live set list! :) |
| Heavenite 03.09.2012 17:41 |
That's right. Thirty Years is Andy's Solo album. The two classic tracks on it Lady Starlight with synths and Where Da Ya Go, the excellent b-side. Andy's solo stuff from the 1980's is much more forgettable, but Krugerrands made the top 10 in South Africa for seemingly obvious reasons. I like your songlist. Buth the truth is, they made so many good ones, so its easy to make a good songlist from them. You clearly like the rockers (as I do too). I might have put in a few softies as well like Medusa, Lady Starlight and Laura Lee. And as I said before, I think Cut Above the Rest is an extraordinary album, so stuff like Mother Earth, Play All Night and Discophony would be in there despite the lack of Brian on that album. I reckon CATR might have just been the trick in the US if Brian had been on there, after their extensive tours in 1976 and 1978 and the relatively recent success of Love is Like Oxygen at the time. By the way, did you know that you can get the whole of the Rainbow concert on CD? Might be it since Strung Up seems so difficult and expensive to get these days. I think that version of Done Me Wrong Alright is fantastic. Might put a link up here when I get a chance to remind you. |
| Lord Fickle 03.09.2012 18:16 |
Yes, got the full Rainbow CD when it came out, thanks. Love the version of Wig Wam Bam on that! My list is mainly of rockers, and I also wanted to stick to stuff Brian was on. There are loads more tracks I could have added, but I just wanted my absolute favourites. Medusa was a close call, as was Heartbreak Today and the extended Midnight to Daylight, but I can always add to it when I feel like a change. CUTR certainly had some good stuff on it, and I agree that Mother Earth was fantastic. I think it might have been Brian's last album, though, especially if they'd toured again, as the voice didn't hold out for much longer after that. Had the nightclub attack not happened, things might have been so different, as I think a lot of Brian's problems stemmed from that. :( |
| Heavenite 04.09.2012 03:33 |
Heartbreak Today and Medusa are two of my alltime favourites. And Midnight to daylight is excellent as well. I reckon Hard Times is a cracker too. Just love the meandering melody on that one. Burning is probably my favourite b-side, although Cover Girl is right in there, as is the post-Brian gem Tall Girls (on their knees). Plus there's lots of the other goodies like Own Up, Take a Look at Yourself and New York Connection. Have you heard the new version of NYC? Its got harmony vox instead of the bare Brian vocals on the original and there's a lot about it that is better than the original, especially the guitars and those excellent harmonies. You'd be surprised how many people are saying how good the current line up is vocally. Pretty much everyone is saying they are the best since the classic lineup. You should go and see them when they tour the UK with Slade. I will be interested to see what sort of reception they get over there and what you think of them. As far as Brian staying or leaving the band goes, he definitley needed help on the Level Headed tour. And as much as I love CATR, I think it would have been better if that album had not been made. He needed time off to straighten himself out. He wasn't sacked for his voice problems, he was sacked for his behaviour. That much is evident from a comparison of his That Girl demo with Steve's Stay with Me. They could not have reasonably chosen Steve's version ahead of Brian's except that there were other problems. Having said that, Brian's version of Play All Night is the worst of the three I think. Even Mick's version puts his in the shade. Just changing the subject to Queen, I just bought the entire Queen singles collection. I paid $200 Australian or around 140 pounds I think. Have never heard I Go Crazy, A Dozen Red Red Roses for my Darling or A Human Body, so tonight is going to be interesting. |
| Lord Fickle 04.09.2012 04:06 |
I'm sorry to say that I don't really have any interest in the current Sweet line up, which, other than Andy, is, to me, not much more than a covers band. It's hard enough watching Queen perform with only two of it's original members, but when you get down to only one, I think that's pushing it a bit. I hope you enjoy the 'new' Queen tracks you'll be hearing. IGC is a great rocker! :) |
| Heavenite 04.09.2012 10:52 |
I actually think the current version of Sweet sound more like Sweet than Queen do these days. Andy was the engine of the band. Even if you only view them as a covers band these days, they are the best version vocally since the classic lineup according to quite a few Sweet stalwarts off the Sweet website. What makes their current covers album so exciting is that it takes guitar bits and styles from old Sweet classics and incorporates them into the fabric of the covers. Personally I think the album is better than AS Sweet's previous two efforts "A" and "Sweetlife" because it really sounds like Sweet of yesteryear to a very surprising extent. So many reviewers have noticed this and it has got great reviews. The band is going back into the studio next year to do an original album. I must admit I doubt it will be as good because it will be the songwriting that will suffer if Andy doesn't have his old bandmates with him. But you never know I guess. Check out this clip of Done Me Wrong Alright from 1981. Brian was gone, but the other three still had it. link And you really should listen to the new version of New York Connection. Its a cracker! link And listen to this one and tell me what song it reminds you of. link And this one too! link The reviews are particularly raving about this song. Obviously its up to you what you listen to, but I really think this new album is great fun and really has something nostagically Sweet about it. |
| Heavenite 04.09.2012 11:05 |
Oh, and I found the long version of I Wanna Be Committed. A friend and fellow Sweet fan put it up just two weeks ago. link I'm a bit hopeless with uploads and downloads and stuff, but I can see if he can upload or do whatever is required if you are interested. |
| Lord Fickle 04.09.2012 12:02 |
I'll have a look at those videos later. I think the Committed one is the one I found just the other day, and I managed to rip the audio from it from YouTube, but a higher quality version would be appreciated. :) |
| Lord Fickle 04.09.2012 16:32 |
OK, you've convinced me to buy the NYC album - just to see how many 'Sweet' bits I can pick out from it! I think it sounds good in it's own right, and I think I'll enjoy it better not thinking of it as Sweet. I've also just got Brian's 'Take Away The Music' CD, and I was surprised that it's not as awful as I was expecting, although, even on tracks like Hypnotised, you can hear that his voice wasn't as strong as it was, and that wonderful natural vibrato he once had, evident on tracks like Solid Gold Brass (which, incidentally, I think is one of his best studio performances - that third verse, where he sings "Heart of a woman...", is just superb), seems forced on this post-Sweet material. That said, I've been looking at old clips on YouTube of Brian in the 90s, struggling to perform live, and even those STILL sound more like Sweet than AS's Sweet ever did to me. |
| Heavenite 05.09.2012 05:31 |
Hi again. Really pleased to hear that you are going to buy the album. But I'm not surprised you like the sound of it, because that is the general reaction amongst fans. Having said that, there are a few who simply aren't interested, usually still because of the loss of Brian. Fair enough I guess. And it seems I forgot to put up the latest version of New York Connection. So here it is. (Play it loud!!) link See if you can work out which other Sweet b-side the guitar break in the middle of the song includes. You should be able to do it very quickly I think. Am also pleased to hear you have picked up Brian's album. Here is a rather lovely clip that was put together by one of his female fans a year or so ago. We all loved this one when we first saw it on the Sweet website. link Here is the reaction on the Sweet website when the song was first posted. link There is nothing wrong with Brian's voice on that song that I can tell. As I said, he was sacked for other reasons I think. And don't forget the version of Magic Circle that is on your new purchase. It is the smash hit that never was. It was cowritten by Brian and Trevor Griffin (yes the guy who cowrote Oxygen with Andy). Tragically it was never released. Re Solid Gold Brass, funnily enough I am not a huge fan of that song, but I know most Sweet fans are. The vocals on the UK version of Desolation Boulevard weren't produced to any great extent, and Brian's vocal on that one grates me. Andy has said that the album wasn't properly finished off. It was supposed to give an idea of what the band would sound like live, but I think Mike Chapman botched this production job. Wainman would have put the usual veneer on it and it would have sounded much better I think. The only song Wainman produced that is on the album is The Six Teens and man you can tell! Doesn't mean the songs on DB weren't great though. The original version of Fox certainly is, and Medusa is absolutely wonderful just the way it is too. But I thought "My Generation" also sucked because of the poor production. Nothing like the excellent job done on that other cover Peppermint Twist off Sweet Fanny Adams. Re the Brian vocal being critical to the Sweet sound, I think that's very true. But the creativity was very much shared largely between the other three band members from Fox onwards, as Brian did not work or was excluded from the creative process from that point on. But of the other three, the primary creative force in the band in my opinion was definitely Andy. And I think NYC shows Andy's guitar skills and creativity is still intact after all these years of virtually nothing. The latest lead singer Pete Lincoln definitely is a good singer and his voice suits glam era songs very well I think. The second guitarist and keyboard player is Tony O'Hora, and has a quite a high pitched voice, which fits in nicely between Pete and Andy on the harmonies. He also sings a song on NYC, as does Andy and the drummer Bruce. And all three songs work well with their respective choice of lead singer I think. Just one point on buying the album. If you are going to the concerts, you will be able to get the band to sign your copy. So you can talk to Andy if you want. Nice to talk to a legend like that. If you do, you can tell him you know Gordo from Tasmania if you like. Andy will almost certainly know who you mean. But he is known to come out with the odd disparaging remark, but whatever he says, I would love to hear it....lol. Tony and Pete might know me as well, but I don't think Broocie will. The last time I spoke to them was only a few months ago in Hobart, Tasmania, which is where I live. They toured here for the first time since 1986. But I also saw them on their two previous visits in 2009 in Melbourne and in 2011 in Perth. Andy actually said to me this year when I saw him that he thought I lived in Perth, where I saw him last year. But I said no, home is definitely Hobart. I suggest you download the album well before the gig if you decide to go. They will almost certainly play at least a couple of tracks and they will sound so much better if you know the songs already (of course). They played 4 songs at the Perth concert earlier this year. The songs they have played live were New York Groove (the single), Gold on the Ceiling (a cover of the Black Keys Song), All Moving Faster and Join Together (The Who). Hopefully they start playing You Spin Me Round and Sweet Jane too. |
| Lord Fickle 05.09.2012 06:47 |
Oh, that guitar break in NYC was really bugging me! I kept following it through in my head, and it was leading me to "Alright now, baby it's-a alright now", which, of course, is very similar in melody to: "Rock and roll You're rock 'n' roll queen Don't you know what I mean Oh, you know You're a rock 'n' roll queen A young man's dream" Hah! ;) Magic Circle is a great track, and would have made a great Sweet single. Do you know what year that Sunshine Days demo was from? It sounds quite early to me, and certainly not post-Sweet, but I could be wrong. I disagree about the production of Desolation Boulevard. It did have issues of inconsistency, and, granted, some tracks sounded much better than others. Medusa always sounded 'weak', as did Breakdown, and MWTGG, compared to 6Teens and Turn It Down, for example, but the remasters corrected that to a large extent. Medusa now sounds much better, and the whole album has a much bigger and fuller sound now - easily on a par with SFA, if not better. It certainly sounded better than 'Wink', which we have discussed before as being 'muddy'. By the way, for my iPod playlist, I did a little bit of 'remastering' myself - see what you think of the sound of Yesterday's Rain, attached here. -- |
| Lord Fickle 05.09.2012 07:00 |
Just seen your edited post - lol! So, you're Gordo, are you? I did wonder. ;) I wasn't planning on going to any of the gigs - I don't get to go to many these days, due to family and other commitments. I've booked to see Rush in May 2013, and am already starting to make plans for that! |
| Heavenite 06.09.2012 05:04 |
Hi again Thanks for that link to Yesterday's Rain. Man you did do a good job on that. What did you do to clean it up like that? Gotta say it makes me wonder why they couldn't do that on the remaster from around six or seven years ago. And regarding your spot the song "task", I actually find its quite hard to place songs like that, so well done for getting it. but Alright Now sounds like Rock N Roll Disgrace? I usually don't get it when people say stuff like that. Although, to be honest, I'm really glad I don't. Re the Sunshine Days demo, we were speculating precisely about when those songs were made on that thread I posted a link to above. The songwriting might have occurred as early as the Level Headed tour. What we hear might then be just a copy of what was done on tour. However, apparently Brian and Mick Angus went into the studio in 1982 to do some recording of album tracks, so it could be a demo from that period too. I don't know how badly Brian's voice had deteriorated by this time, but Hypnotised is from 1982, so maybe his singing was still OK. Not sure! As for Desolation Boulevard, well everyone gets to choose what they like and don't like. Interestingly I put up a thread on the UK version of Desolation Boulevard on The Sweet Forum, and as you would expect everyone's view was different. Although the prevailing opinion, but definitely not the uniform opinion, does seem to be that DB has too much filler and is a bit underproduced. As I said, I myself find it a very uneven album, but with some tremendous highs. Check out the discussion we had on this link > link Having said that, don't let that make you enjoy the album any less. :-) I have resisted all opinions by many Sweet fans that say Level Headed is a bad album...lol. Re Strung Up, I have sent a private message on the Sweet Forum to the guy who put up that Done Me Wrong Alright version to see if he can send a better quality version of the album for you. Still waiting at this point, although he in the lives in Western Australia, so it would not even be 7 o'clock in the evening at this point over there, so maybe he hasn't even looked at it yet. I'll let you know what the outcome is. |
| Lord Fickle 06.09.2012 06:04 |
Thanks for your comments re Yesterday's Rain. I don't know if you've visited the Fan Mixes section on here, but I've done quite a few remixes of Queen songs, and I'm a bit of an amateur sound geek, so I do like making things sound as best as I can make them sound. For YR, I used Sony Soundforge to beef up the EQ, then switched to Adobe Audition to cleanup the hiss and crackle. I've done Action as well, which I've also attached below, although, I couldn't do anything about the audible tape damage in the first few second of where the band come in after the intro. The single mix is 'cleaner', but the drum sound is different, so they don't match for an overwrite. Same on the previous remaster too. This has got another little tweak in it you might like, though. :) I've been reading the DB thread you pointed to - much as I am tempted to, I'm resisting joining the forum to comment, as I spend far too much time on the damned things anyway, so another one wouldn't be good for my sanity! Re the comments about My Generation, my thinking behind this is that Sweet were due to perform with The Who, but Brian's throat injury after the nightclub attack prevented this. MG, therefore, was not included as a 'filler', in that they were short of material, but as a 'nod' to The Who, who Andy Scott was quite upset about not being able to perform with. As for MWTGA, I'm guessing this was part of the live show before it was recorded, and they decided to lay it down in the studio, much as Queen did with Brian's Brighton Rock solo. As far as 'fillers' go, I think Breakdown and the original Fox were certainly the weakest tracks on the album - but my memory doesn't quite stretch back that far - had we heard the 'new' Fox On The Run before the original? I seem to recall that we had, although I could be mistaken, which would certain have made the original FOTR sound inferior. In my opinion, although SFA was the better album, it also had it's share of fillers. Peppermint Twist was a Joey Dee and the Starliters cover from the early 60s, and Restless and Into The Night weren't exactly classics. The best, most 'complete' album has to be 'Wink', but that too suffered from a poor production. Most of the songs on it are strong, though, White Mice being the possible weakest link. Thanks for trying to get 'Committed', so to speak! I do wonder why they've used an edited version on everything else, and why they even bothered to edit it! -- |
| Heavenite 07.09.2012 06:34 |
Hi again Lord Fickle I love the quality of that Action sound. It sounds much better than the remaster I've got I think. But I'm not sure of exactly where you did your "extra touches" to it as I can't hear any edits to the song. Your technical description of how you did the editing went way over my head, although I reckon it would be a lot of fun doing that sort of thing. I also went and had a listen to a couple of your "Fickle Mixes" on the Fans Remixes page. I listened to Death on Two Legs and Fat Bottom Girls. It was pretty clear where you had made some edits (high pitched harmonies out of DOTL and the rebalanced mix on FBG to bring out the excellent guitar sound that was going on. The introductory vocals in Fat Bottom Girls were also pretty awesome too (love the echo). So having been able to find your changes on those Queen songs, I'm a bit surprised that I haven't been able to pick any similar changes to Action (apart from the fact that it sounds so much clearer of course). Now changing the subject to the possibility of you joining The Sweet Forum, I do understand your concern about joining another of these talkfests. They are a bit addictive and they do steal time. On the other hand, they are fun and people get to share their love for something that has influenced out lives, as you know. The Sweet forum is actually a fairly low traffic forum, but if you go hunting for good threads like the ones I put on here, you could spend an awful lot of time there, especially in the first instance. Anyway, do as you think best of course. You make an interesting point about why My Generation was included on DB. As I understand it, the Charlton gig certainly happened in 1974, just can't recollect if it was closer to Sweet Fanny Adams or Desolation Boulevard. I know Brian's vocal was still impaired from the bashing during the recording of SFA and Steve had to take the lead vox on some tracks. MWTGA was definitely part of the live show before it was recorded. That much is evident from the Rainbow gig, which happened in 1973, even though it wasn't released until Strung Up came out in 1975. Re your weakest songs on the album, I definitely agree about Breakdown. However I think the original version of FOTR is a gem. A diamond in the rough, so to speak. Apparently a record executive told them to go rerecord it and release it as a single in 1975 while Chinn and Chapman were away in America. So the upshot is that both Fox and Lady Starlight were tracks from DB that got subsequent makeovers. In relation to your opinion of the fillers on SFA, I think Peppermint Twist is played incredibly well. It went to number one in Australia when a record exec was looking for a single off the album after Sweet had got big with Ballroom Blitz. In hindsight it was a stroke of genius. Restless is my least favourite track on the album too, although I don't mind Into the Night at all. Check out this excellent version that Andy used to invite certain people to his 60th birthday celebration. Just on this issue of fillers and classics, I can't believe how often I find that one person hates the songs another person loves. On here for instance, I mentioned that I thought Mother Love was an absolute classic. Apparently that is not always the view. And I saw people saying the best tracks on Miracle were Breathru and Was It All Worth It, two songs which I'm not that crazy about at all. So taste is very individual, even among people that like the same bands....lol. Having said that, the most popular album among Sweet fans on The Forum is definitely Give Us A Wink, although Sweet Fanny Adams seems to be the one that gets most of the kudos. As I said earlier, I love Cut Above The Rest. For me its the perfect mix of pop, rock and even a bit of prog. Having said that I love all the albums from SFA up to CATR. On that last matter, I will keep trying to get "Committed" for you. I reckon Wayne might be able to do something, but we'll see I guess. The other thing I could do is ask a friend of mine's son what he can do, as he works at the local Harvey Norman (computer) store. |
| Lord Fickle 07.09.2012 07:49 |
Thanks, again, for your comments on Action, and on my other mixes. The 'tweaks' in Action are quite subliminal - I just did it as a bit of fun for myself, but right where Brian sings "Action!", just before the cash register sound in the middle, there's a bit of an echo added, which you might hear better on headphones, and the actual cash register now sweeps from one speaker to the other. Nothing radical. :) Talking of Action, I've now got the Live For Today CD, and there's a 'bare bones' version of Action on there, without all the overdubs, so I've managed to make my own version of the Strung Up ending, by editing that ending onto the 'Wink' version. Tragic, perhaps, but little things please little minds... lol! ;) Re My Generation, is there any certainty over when it was actually recorded? Could it have been as early as the SFA sessions, prior to Brian's attack? They may well have thought that one cover version on SFA was enough, so saved it for later. The coincidence with the Who gig is quite relevant, in my opinion, though, of course, I have no evidence to back the theory up. Talking of the others having to take lead vocals on some of the tracks on SFA, I wonder how different those would have sounded with Brian on vocals? In my opinion, although both Steve and Andy are strong singers, they weren't LEAD singers, and I think the album would have been so much more complete and consistent, had Brian been able to sing on all of the tracks. It's a shame that, even on the live shows, I think Steve still performed the vocal to Restless - it would have been interesting to hear Brian's take on it, despite his worsening live vocals. I certainly agree with what you say about people liking different songs, and thank goodness we're not all the same, or the world would be a boring place! Personally, I have mixed feelings about Mother Love. Whilst it is a very well crafted song, I find it quite painful to listen to, and I don't play it very often. You can just imagine the mental and physical pain Freddie must have been in when he sung it, possibly knowing it would be his last recording, and the fact that Brian has to finish the song, makes it even more poignant and heartbreaking. I may join the Sweet forum - I'll have a lurk first to see what's going on. The danger with joining an established board, when there is little 'new' to discuss, is that everyone has talked about everything before, so it would be difficult not to be repeating what others have already said many times before. I know there are still versions of Sweet knocking about, but, good as NYC is, it could be any covers band to me, although, it was fun trying to spot the Sweet bits in it. |
| Heavenite 07.09.2012 21:56 |
Hi Lord Fickle Good to see you have joined The Sweet discussion :-). Sweet have probably maintained a much higher control over their product in the years since the classic lineup, presumably to maximise the revenue they receive from it. They even recently sued a seller who was selling bogus product in one of the central European countries and lost. So I'm not sure what they are going to make of your recent request. Although I would think that they will sensibly distinguish between someone with a love of the band and someone who is doing it for a profit making motive. Anyway, I will leave it to those who are better informed to answer your question at this point. I like the way you have been able to create your own Strung Up version of Action. Very clever! And certainly not tragic. Can I hear it please? As I will be interested to hear how close you were able to get to the original with your editing techniques. Thanks also for explaining your subtle changes on your pre-existing version of Action. Earphones certainly do create a different experience. A more complete one I guess. Switching cash registers sounds pretty cool! Actually one song that I found that I particular liked under the headphones is Alpha Beta Gamma Delta. Magic stuff! Some of Mick's drumming is simply hypnotic with the headphones on. Re the recording of My Generation, I am pretty sure I've read recently that DB was recorded in just one week, which might back up the opinion by some including myself that the album was a bit underproduced. Although apparently Sweet were required to record in very short timeframes in the early days, so I guess you could argue that this wasn't necessarily the critical issue. Re your point about if Brian had sung on all the Sweet tracks on Sweet Fanny Adams, I can see a case for it and a case against it. Brian was definitely the best singer in the band. So having him sing all songs makes sense. Alternatively, variety on singers in an album is definitely something I like. Freddie was obviously easily the best singer in Queen, but should he have sung I'm in Love with My Car. What about '39? So I think variety is nice to a certain extent as well. The other thing is certain voices are better in certain ranges. For instance, could Brian have done a better job with No You Don't than Steve? Personally I really doubt it. Apparently they even had to speed up Steve's vocal to get him up there. Brian would simply have had no hope I think. Having said that, I'm not thrilled with Steve's version of Restless. His voice sounds sharp in that one I think. So maybe Brian would have brought the his usual finish to it and transformed the song. Pity they haven't released a demo where he had a go (if it exists). Similarly Into the night would have been interesting. Although I love this "older version" that Andy did for people invited to his 60th birthday: link Different singers definitely seems to have been something they experimented with. I mean, for example, there is a version of Rebel Rouser that Steve exists. Its not bad either. Not as good as Brian's though of course. And in later years, they deliberately shared the vocal duties to help Brian out. To Queen and your comments on Mother Love, and I very much understand your feelings about this song. It IS extremely hard to listen to. And when the song gets put on fast rewind at the end, it freaks me right out as Freddie is returned to babyhood, and presumably the womb beyond that. But passion is a very important ingredient in music. And the way Freddie helps us connect with our own grief for him, and maybe also others we've lost, is incredible I think. That's supposed to be therapeutic ya know. He did it similarly for those with a broken heart in Save Me, for the joy of life in Don't Stop Me Now and the feelings of being in love in "You Take My Breath Away". So I guess we should not expect it to be anything different when he is communicating to us about his pain and the process of dying. I think its that sort of thing that truly made Freddie and Queen great. I think we also get a lot of his angst on the fear of dying on Innuendo, including songs like The Show Must Go On, These Are The Days Of Our Lives and of course the song Innuendo itself. And I think much of what gives this album its power, is the way the events that surround that album come out in the music. Back to Sweet, and it sounds like you've received your copy of NYC. I can understand your continuing disappointment about the vocals because of the loss of Brian, but for me and many others, there is still something very "Sweet" about this recording. And a lot of that is to do with Andy's guitar work. And its not just on the cameos of Sweet songs. I think that Andy has shown once again what an incredible guitarist he is on this album. Personally I don't think even a very good Sweet cover band can do that. And I have heard a few very good ones. The harmonies are still very Sweetish I think, because it is Andy who is still putting his falsetto sound at the top of the vocal stack and because he is still running the show. Check out this summary of the reviews of NYC off The Sweet Forum: goldengreats wrote: I guess this has settled more or less as the NYC thread. Sorry if it's off topic. Don't know if all of these reviews have been up on the forum, but here goes ... “When was the last time you could say that you really had fun with a covers album? "New York Groove" , the Russ Ballard song that of course was made famous by KISS guitarist Ace Frehley, is given a rousing rendition here (look out as well for Alicia Keys' "Streets of New York" wrapped in the middle), and The Who's "Join Together" is quite rocking and loads of fun. "Because The Night", a killer song written by BruceSpringsteen but originally given to Patty Smith, is another highlight, and features a great lead vocal from O'Hora plus plenty of energy from the band. A real surprise is a near heavy metal take on the Dead or Alive '80s new wave/pop/disco hit "You Spin Me Right Round (Like A Record)" , easily one of the most successful covers here. Scott takes over the lead vocal slot on The Velvet Underground's "Sweet Jane", and again, the band take this classic New York rock song into heavy territory. ” Pete Pardo - Sea Of Tranquility “It’s a pure treat to hear singer Pete Lincoln take on Russ Ballard’s “New York Groove”, Dead or Alive’s “You Spin Me Round” and The Black Keys’ song “Gold on the Ceiling”. The band sounds so tight and together throughout the entire album and the backing vocals are amazing on tracks like “On Broadway” and “Join Together”. The sound quality of the album is clean and crisp and was produced by original band member and guitarist Andy Scott. For me hearing The Sweet rock the hell out of The Ramones hit “Blitzkrieg Bop” makes me remember the energy this band has always had. And then to hear them perform The Velvet Underground’s tune “Sweet Jane” simply blew me away. They take an already amazing track and tweak it just enough to make it sound like their own while maintaining the strong essence that made the original such a hit. Those who are new to the band will thoroughly enjoy hearing some classic tracks and hit songs performed by masters of music” John - Muisc Frenzy “The first reaction to New York Connection, as with similar albums, is, not another covers album. Nevertheless, this one's pretty good. Andy Scott notes of New York Connection: 'It's all meant to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. The whole point of doing something like this was to enjoy it." For Sweet fans, they will find this album quite enjoyable as well. 4.0/5.0” Craig Hartranft - Danger Dog |
| Heavenite 08.09.2012 02:24 |
Reviews of NYC continued: “Believe me, you’ll be mesmerized, by the sensational and celebratory blanket of Rock sound that Sweet covered New York Groove with! Do yourself a Rockin’ Sweet favor right now and click that arrow on the audio bar below… crank it up high, then let the good time vibes swirl within your Rock ‘N Roll soul! I let them swirl through mine. Excuse me… I have to go dancing in the street now.” Stone - Metal Odyssey “New York Connection” is a very tasteful rockin’ album from start to finish. You will get to know some significant songs of the past if you are a younger listener or you will remember some good oldies if you’re an older fan of rock music generally. Sweet are giving some excellent performances on the album and their covers have something of their own touch. Moreover, the production is great and crunchy and was done by Andy Scott. If you miss the good old rockin’ days… then do not miss this album… let’s hope the guys will also release a new studio album (with new material) soon… till then, enjoy “New York Connection”. thanos - Grande Rock “From the moment this CD kicks off, it rocks mega hard and doesn’t let up until the CD ends. The music is loud and sums up a great 40 minutes you will experience with this album. Our Score: 4 out of 5 stars” Mike Gencarelli - Media Mikes “Sweet answers the question once and for all: What would happen if some combined the glam of T. Rex, the metal of Slade and the modernity of Jay Z? What’s that? You said you never asked that particular question?” Nick DeRiso - Something Else “It’s great to have new material from Andy & Sweet, even if it is cover versions, but there’s no denying they are all expertly performed and recorded, and there is some great production and creative touches in combining some of these seemingly disparate tunes together to create an almost mashed up track, and a very enjoyable creative whole. Opening with New York Groove – following the original Russ Ballard arrangement rather than Ace Frehley’s more famous (to me, at least!) cover – it’s clear Andy and the band (Pete Lincoln on bass & vocals, Bruce Bisland on drums and newly reinstated keyboardist Tony O’Hora) have a few tricks up their sleeves and have successfully given the song “the Sweet treatment”. Especially effective are Tony O’Hora’s backing vocals, and the segue into a segment of Jay Z & Alicia Keys’ Empire State Of Mind, again sung by O’Hora, in the choruses works sensationally.” The Rock Pit “The Sweet are back in Perth for the second time in just under a year, and this time they have new album “New York Connection” under their arm and ready to share. The Sweet are out there delivering feisty and vital rock n’ roll to the world – and thank goodness for that! Scott assaults his guitar like a man half his age, boasting such a distinctive tone, and in his own words “As long as I have breath in my body I promise you I will not stop this” – long may he rock!” Shane Pinnegar And check out this version of Teenage Rampage they did, as I really think it shows that this band does a rare job with Sweet material. link I don't think either BC Sweet or any Sweet cover band could do that. Again, I'm very pleased you have decided to join The Sweet Forum. And don't be worried about rediscussing things on there though. The attitude to it is quite positive and you definitely won't be shot for it. And people who have followed Sweet as long as you have bring their own significant perspective. I know I myself only joined in 2009, and I think I brought a new perspective on their which the regular people on there very much appreciated. I also bought evidence about Sweet's chart action in Australia, which people thought was interesting. One thing you have brought home to me is the continuing shortfall that exists in relation to a proper version of Strung Up. So maybe you should bring up the issue on a thread. I would certainly haves some comments to add. Its up to you of course Simon....lol. |
| Lord Fickle 08.09.2012 03:36 |
I'll respond more fully later, but as there's been no response to my post over there, perhaps I've hit a nerve - lol! This place has a 'fan mixes' forum, so, while they are not liked by everyone, they are appreciated by some. The band even put out their own stems for a Don't Stop Me Now remix competition, so that would suggest they are aware of fan mixes, but I don't know whether they support them or would rather the material hadn't leaked. Probably the latter, I guess. I think it would certainly be interesting to hear certain Sweet songs 'disassembled', but I would understand if the community doesn't support the idea. Thanks for posting the reviews. It's not that I dislike the album, as the singing and playing is great - its just that, as Queen isn't Queen to me without Freddie, Sweet isn't Sweet without Brian and Mick. I may start a Strung Up thread - I'll see how the other one goes first! I'll post the version of Action later. I don't think it's quite the same, though, as the guitar still 'down tones' (like a slowing turntable) at the end of mine, and if I recall correctly, it doesn't on the SU version. |
| Heavenite 08.09.2012 04:31 |
Hi again Lord Fickle I'm sure the reason nobody has answered you on your thread over there yet is that only a few people would have the knowledge to answer your question in a useful way. I know I can't for one. But I'm sure the resident experts will come to the fore at some point. Andy's assistant Kevin Smith regularly reads the threads too and got an answer to a newbie's question just a couple of days ago, so anything is possible. Now to the issue of what is Sweet and I very much understand your point about the current lineup Sweet not being Sweet without Brian and Mick. Yet I don't think the current band is just a cover band either when you have Andy's guitar and harmony work so fully infiltrating the songs. Maybe they should call themselves "Sweet's Sister" as in a sister band of Sweet's....lol. What do you reckon? Personally I think its great that we have some very Sweet like material available again after years of nothing. I just hope that the new album they are also talking about turns out to be as sweetlike. I will be interested in your Strung Up thread if you do go ahead with it. A call for a new reissue from a newbie. Now surely that;s just gotta be heard! |
| Heavenite 08.09.2012 04:36 |
PS Check out my comments on Made in Heaven in the Barcelona thread under Serious Discussion. I think it a fascinating topic that one and I like what RhyKing said a lot. |
| Lord Fickle 08.09.2012 05:01 |
Just a point, I'd prefer to keep my forum identities separate, so I'm Lord Fickle on here, if you don't mind, otherwise, things could get confusing! ;) I'll pop in when I can and start a Strung Up thread. Will be interesting to see what others think. :) |
| Heavenite 08.09.2012 05:07 |
Hey no probs. I'm the same I guess. I have gone and fixed those old entries to save any confusion. PS Just saw your new Strung Up thread. I'm going to leave it that one too and let somebody else answer it first and see where it goes. But I definitely have my opinion on it and will be giving it shortly. |
| Lord Fickle 08.09.2012 05:25 |
I certainly feel that the complete remastered live album, plus the two "first time on CD" versions would be an attractive package for fans. |
| Lord Fickle 08.09.2012 11:05 |
OK, here's the 'Strung Up Ending' version of Action. As I said, not sure how accurate it is, given I haven't heard the original for about 20 years! link |
| Heavenite 08.09.2012 20:18 |
Nice job! You don't need a version of Strung Up anymore....lol. |
| Heavenite 08.09.2012 20:40 |
Actually in hindsight, your version slides off the key a tad. Whereas, if I remember rightly, the Strung Up version just faded out on the same note. Its still very good though and still very similar to the original. |
| Lord Fickle 09.09.2012 04:05 |
I thought that might be the case. I did try to 'straighten' the pitch to a consistent note, buy it's actually very difficult to do, so I gave up last night but may try again when I have more time. |
| Heavenite 09.09.2012 04:26 |
OK, but I don't think its that important. In fact, you seem to have created a good new version...lol. |
| Lord Fickle 09.09.2012 10:52 |
It's important to me to get it right. But yeah, we now have another new version - lol! |
| Heavenite 10.11.2012 05:45 |
Has anyone been or is ng to see the Sweet/Slade tour of the UK? They were the two biggest forerunner glam bands to Queen in the UK. Should be a great show. I hear Sweet are doing a hits package plus a souped up version of their old b-side New York Connection, plus probably the best version off their new covers album, the song called You Spin Me Round, although they me change those from night to night (hopefully!). They are also selling at their shows a reworked version of their great 70's album Sweet Fanny Adams called (not surprisingly) Sweet Fanny Adams Revisited. |
| wheelsares 16.12.2012 14:54 |
Saw the latest Sweet/Slade tour...twice! Slade were competant enough and Sweet were better than they have ever been since 1980, and far better than anyone had a right to expect, a real turnup for the books... great layered vocals, musicianship and loud! Sweet played a greatest hits package but mashed up with other numbers so that we had the extended LILO played around Fanfare for the Common Man, quite an effective way of introducing 'change' to the playlist. Slade now have the same singer as Andy used in the 80's, but the current Sweet lead vocalist Pete Lincoln is superb as a fit for Brian Connolly - not a shouter and works the show well - those who have the Sweet covers album may already know this. That album is also really effective and the live show does real justice - the live 'Spin Me Around' works particularly well. Would love to have seen an extended show around Sweets' heavier numbers, but this was a shared bill... They may well extend their playlist in Germany, Aus etc... Oh and at the end of the set in Poole, Andy snapped a few strings with cutters for his guitar to feedback noisily - never saw that one coming! If you see this 'new' Sweet outfit with an open mind you will not be disappointed. |
| Heavenite 02.01.2013 09:36 |
Hey nice one wheelares! Sweet has just released a live set called "Sweet Fanny Adams Revisited". I am still waiting for my copy to land, but it sounds like its great based on the versions of No You Don't. Heartbreak Today and Into the Night they have placed on their Facebook page. As a huge Sweet and Queen fan, I find them to be quite similar in some ways. They both have an excellent layered harmonic sound, both had a great vocalist and both have a bitchin' guitarist who has played some of the best hooks ever. Especially now that Queen are a shadow of their former greatness, i find Sweet to be a lot more interesting in recent years once again. And that covers album you mention IS pretty special I think. And apparently Sweet are going back into the studio just about now to record a new album. Got to say I'm pretty excited about that too! Although I still live in hope that Brian and Rog can put together one last Queen album of sufficient quality with Freddie singing on it from what remains, so that we can have one more turn at listening to a bona fide Queen album, and also to give the kids of today the chance to hear Freddie singing on the radio (assuming it got some airplay that is). |
| wheelsares 26.01.2013 07:26 |
This album was on sale at the various venues during the recent U.K mini tour and I do have it Bohemian - it is good and is promoted as having been recorded with the current line - up, although timeline-wise, could possibly have used another singer as well as this was toured in Europe starting a while back now. Of course Andy has to be there as the go - to man for consistency... All vocals are good though. Hope you enjoy your copy. (Would love to hear them attack more of Off the Record live - my personal fave period ... undiscovered album!) Incidentally, I see that your (same) album is now being repositioned as Desolation Boulevard Revisited for maximum reach... canny fellow, Andy Scott.... On the subject of a potential new studio album Bohemian, there was a link on the very Facebook page you mention for a long interview given by Andy to link where he does refer to his difficulty with writing a new studio album, maybe the link is still alive now if you give it a go... You are definitely right to say there was a tie-up between Queen and Sweet - roughly the same content of hard rock and four part vocals - and Def Leppard and Axl Rose seemed to agree! |
| wheelsares 26.01.2013 07:45 |
Hi Bohemian, just checked and the Facebook link to link was posted there on 29 Dec 2012 and that audio stream is still alive on that page under their interviews area - enjoy! |
| Heavenite 28.01.2013 20:33 |
Thanks for that link wheelsares I actually had heard that interview once before, but it was really good hearing it again, as there was some very interesting detail packed into it. Especially near the end of the interview. I had overlooked that bit about Andy not knowing how new songs would come out, as its been ten years since Sweetlife. Makes him creatively fresh I think. He also says that he thinks that the album he would write would come out sounding like Topographical Oceans. However he said what was needed was another Sweet Fanny Adams. That might be right, but I also think that a bit of substance is what took Sweet up to the next level. And if Sweet hadn't evolved, there wouldn't have been a Love Is Like Oxgyen. And you simply can't pretend that you haven't developed. And he pretty much says that beforehand in the interview when he says he probably couldn't write stuff like Sweet FA and the old b-sides any more as its symphonies that he has now swirling around in his head. And I think that's probably true for the fans as well since they are much older and have developed with bands like Sweet and Queen, and many others for that matter as well. So I think Andy and the boys need to put their hearts and souls into whatever they do, rather than do something solely for the market. Much like they did with NYC. It doesn't need to be Topographical Oceans but its got to be genuine I think. And that way they will bring the market with them. And I totally agree with you about more Off the Record. A wonderful undiscovered album that wasn't marketed properly at the time. Although personally I reckon they should take songs from across the catalogue, and not just any one album. Re the current lineup, Andy says that they are the best vocally since the classic lineup, and I agree. He also says that some of the other musicians that have played with him have been excellent on their instruments. I am guessing, but I would think that the one he might be most specifically referring to with that is Steve Grant, who left last year when Tony O'Hora rejoined. Tony was previously a lead singer in the band in the mid noughties, if you didn't know. Just on your point about Desolation Boulevard Revisited being a smart move to reposition the Sweet Fanny Adams album with US fans, well that's definitely true I think. Although I would have preferred it with the complete original song listing on these albums. I certainly would have bought both of them if that had happended, as I'm sure a lot of the core Sweet nuts would have as well. Oh well, can't have everything I guess. The other thing that caught my attention listening to that interview with Andy again was him saying that he is going to be doing a thing on a boat out of Sydney in August called Rock the Boat. I have checked the related website, but can't see anything on that to say that Sweet are doing it. But I will keep following it up, because if they are doing that, I would definitely want to be there. So once again, thanks for bringing the link to my attention for that bit of info too! |
| wheelsares 29.01.2013 12:51 |
|
| wheelsares 29.01.2013 12:53 |
Not sure what the schedule will be like down under but keep watching as I am sure they should be really committed to the Aus mkt and would definitely go for the boat ride! As you correctly suggest Sweet were never marketed properly, particularly in the States where they did seem to start taking off on the back of the US version of Desolation Boulevard (the superior album version I thought) and also Give Us a Wink - another excellent but maligned album in the press. The apparent lack of an obvious single on Off the Record seemed to affect sales there with a minor hit there for Funk it Up, but I cannot imagine what was supposed to be wrong with Fever of Love for that mkt then - if Def Leppard had redone that 10 years later another hit I reckon! It was a sizeable hit in my native South Africa though, and I see Andy is set to go there for the first time later this year. Incidentally Sixties Man was a number 1 hit in Malawi next door (of all places - they had a DJ there who just kept pushing away at it on the old short wave! Can't imagine Sweet got their royalties though!). Anyway never knew a band like Sweet to stir critical comment - even inside this thread earlier on by the way! You could argue for the Who, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd (and I love them too!), but Queen and Sweet usually started a fight! |
| wheelsares 29.01.2013 13:35 |
Anyway Heavenite, you are right about Tony O'Hara - he gets it just right with the Steve Priest-like interjections and is also a really good showman - a very good addition for the band. I suppose the present line-up could last depending on the crowd support and the $$! Aus + Germany critical there - I gather they can still draw 2000-3000 people in Germany on their own. Changing tack (and loyalties!) for a minute Heavenite, have you listened to Steve Priests' band in the States? They are excellent as well if you haven't heard them yet. A live run on all the classics on 'Sweet Live - Are you Ready?' from 2009 turned the songs a little AOR but again stayed true to the 'brand' albeit going just slightly Heavy Metal! Bet Andy was just a little impressed! And right now I am listening to their Amazon download playing Won't Get Fooled Again on the Who tribute album Who Are You an All-Star Tribute - thats really good too! |
| Heavenite 08.02.2013 16:22 |
Yes, I really like Tony O'Hora. I saw him last year in Hobart where I live. They have also been to Australia three of the last four years, and I reckon they will come here this year again on their New York Connection tour too. Re Steve's band, I have their live CD too. Its extremely well played! And yes, I think Andy might have been a bit impressed given the quality of the recording. Haven't got the latest Who single yet, but I need to cos it really is a top notch version. Andy has promised that new album of original songs as well, so I'm really looking forward to that. And it would be great if Stevie could do the same. Hope he can get to Australia as well at some point too! |
| wheelsares 17.02.2013 08:17 |
Found this old link bookmarked on my laptop - Try this weblink < www.daveling.co.uk/docsweet.htm > for a past article in Classic Rock magazine about the band. Also ref the acknowledgment links for further reading at the foot of that article, you could add books: 'Blockbuster!' by Dave Thompson and espicially the very well researched 'The Sweet:Biography. No Matter What They Say.' by Australian(?) fan Mick Duthie. I think this is only available now in hard copy fm eBAY via Australia. Its not cheap but was probably never priced for mass circulation and should be quite affordable in Australia where my copy posted from - both good reads! Enjoy. |
| Heavenite 19.02.2013 07:00 |
HI Wheelsares Yes nice article that one. And Dave Thompson and Mick Duthie's books are great too! Mick's book is also available as a download from the Sweet website last time I checked. And Steve Priest's book is also, although he is doing a revised edition of his book "Are You Ready Steve". that should be out in a few months. Knowing Steve it's going to be dynamite! |
| wheelsares 19.02.2013 16:38 |
Hi Heavenite, I wonder how that expanded version will read then - Steve needs to do more recording to offer that extra scope - lol maybe he is upping the rockstar soft porn content of the original version (of course I'm jealous!- it is usually Brian and Mick who get most of that credit according to Andy!). Sadly though, his guitarist Steve Smith left the band at the end of last year so not sure how that will pan out now... pity. It would be great if Steve would join Andy for one last hurrah but Steve does appear to be totally anti all things Andy/U.K... he had even pencilled in a small UK tour in 2010 but the promoter turned out to be a fraud! Which were your favourite Sweet and Queen albums Heavenite? For me all of Sweet except around the edges - Funny How Sweet Co-Co... and Identity Crisis missing the spot personally, with my high points being OTR, GUAW, SFA and the live Strung Up - cracking that one! And maybe even NYC and CATR! By the way did you ever hear their BBC version of Paperback Writer (mainly Brian there)? B-Sides were always better in 1971-72! And ALL of Queen except Hot Space, the Game and Flash Gordon for me... loved the growth through Queen/Queen II/Sheer Heart Attack etc plus the Works and esp. the grand finale Innuendo... not a bad effort for a man in poor health! Unfortunately Freddie was always going to be particularly irreplaceable being one of rock premier class acts, totally up there with Daltrey, Plant and Jagger I think, as well as being an essential writer for the band too. Legend! George Michael was exceptional on Five Live at Wembley though... |
| Heavenite 23.02.2013 17:50 |
Yes Wheelsares I think Steve does need to do some more recording if he is going to be relevant in a contemporary sense once again . Sadly I think the moment has passed, as his band are now doing a new album as Heaven and Earth. It's called "Dig", which is going to be released in April. It looks like it's going to be top notch. In an interview with bandleader Stuart Smith recently, he says that Steve didn't want to do anything new, which is why he and the rest of the band went out and made "Dig". Not sure if that was because Steve was having his knee done or maybe at age 65, he is happy with his lot and just wants to do the odd concert in the States every now and then and that's all. I reckon the revisions to Steve's book will be more in the form of an extension to his original edition. Stuff like the attempt to reform with Brian and Mick and without Andy would be my guess on the sort of thing we will see included in it. So it could well blow the lid on the inner politics between the the bandmembers since the demise of the classic lineup up. Well at least until Brian's and Mick's deaths. As I said in my last post, it could be dynamite! I remember the Steve tour debacle in 2010. Very unfortunate! But he did get to Germany with his band for a couple of dates a bit later on. Just he never got to England. It would of course be great to see Steve and Andy together again, but I think the chances of that happening have well and truly passed (sadly). Maybe for a live date or two at the very most, but that's it! Steve has been the one that didn't want to do anything for years, whereas Andy did. But these days I think Andy has very much moved forward with his band with the excellent NYC and SFA Revisited albums. And even more exciting is the prospect of a new album. That would be so special if it happens, which I think it will, subject to health etc. I do have the Live at the BBC album with all those early Sweet recordings, including Paperback Writer. Very nice! Early b-sides were awesome as you say and should get more exposure in concert these days. Favourites are Burning and Done Me Wrong Alright. The b-sides were actually included on an album in Australia with the four big glam hits and was called The Sweet Singles. It was a huge seller, and had a lot to do with why Sweet are so highly regarded here. Similarly I think to the way in which the US Desolation Boulevard is so higly regarded over in the US, although probably even more so. I actually hope they use The Sweet Singles as a template for any 40th anniversary reissues they might be planning on releasing next year. I know that the 2005 reissue of Desolation Boulevard, which included the glam rock tracks and their b-sides as extras, is now well out of production and hard to get. So just maybe they'll do it differently next time. Re my favourite Sweet albums, the live part of Strung Up is awesome with that version of Done Me Wrong Alright, which has that mega guitar solo on it. But I love all their albums including Identity Crisis. They really are all great. My least favourite albums are the bubblegum ones and probably Waters Edge. But even WE isn't bad! far from it! CATR could also have easily broken them super big in the States if Brian had still been around. They were still getting better in my book! But sadly he wasn't. As far as Queen is concerned, their albums are all also great. My least favourite is A Kind Of Magic, then next least is very difficult. I actually love Flash Gordon, and Made in Heaven was surprisingly good despite the fact that Freddie was no longer with us when it came out. But the top Queen albums for me would be Queen 2, Sheer Heart Attack, A Night at the Opera, News Of the World, Jazz, The Game, Flash Gordon, Innuendo and Made in Heaven. I hope there is something that is decent enough that is still left that we might hear one day. I liked the recent reissue with all the different live versions, demos and alternate takes. Very nice! I also picked up The Singles Collection and heard some of the b-sides that I had missed along the way. Some of those were really great too! |
| wheelsares 09.03.2013 06:27 |
Another old link for you Heavenite - link |
| PrimeJiveUSA 15.11.2019 19:55 |
As much as they seem to be dismissed, I actually LOVE Cut Above the Rest and Water's Edge. |
| dysan 16.11.2019 08:59 |
Nice thread. I love Sweet. A mixed bag to be fair, but overall definitely one of my favs. |
| brENsKi 24.11.2019 16:58 |
Here's my YT upload (in medley form) from 2017 - Sweet were supporting Ritchie's Rainbow at Birmingham |