| SilverShoes 01.11.2004 23:50 |
I was watching Live At The Rainbow today, and it occurred to me to ask a couple questions: how much work was done on this after the fact? During Ogre Battle, it sounds like there's more than three voices in some bits. I know John used to sing backup sometimes, but even still, it sounds like they may have, uh, sweetened the vocals in a couple places. Also, what's the deal with the Father To Son/Keep Yourself Alive/Liar medley. In the first place, I swear I hear an edit during Father To Son, right after the first chorus, it sounds like something was cut out. Then, where it goes into the bit where it should be the quiet bit of Freddie singing and playing piano, it instead segues into Roger's drum solo (which in turn goes into the post drum solo bit in Keep Yourself Alive). Is that how it was actually played? Here again, the transistion seems a bit suspect, as if they cut another bit out. During Liar, I think I hear another edit as well? Anyone know how faithfully this video reproduces what was actually played on that particularly evening? |
| Regor 02.11.2004 03:39 |
Rainbow is heavily overdubbed. You can also hear that on Now I'm here on GVHI. Dunno why, though. There's been a thread on that topic before, I seem to remember. |
| Regor 02.11.2004 03:42 |
link |
| Negative Creep 02.11.2004 06:52 |
Another myth.... Live At The Rainbow ISN'T heavily overdubbed. That whole issue arose as people don't believe they were capable of such a great performance so early on (Brian has stated that he was at his peak as a guitarist in '74) & the fact that the footage is cut from both nights so some of the footage doesn't cut well. Theres no extra harmonies in there at all as has been suggested. I think you'll find if they went to the trouble of overdubbing on every song they would have produced a stero mix. Some of the tracks WERE quite obviously edited down, as it was produced to be shown in cinemas, but not as the main film - hopefully/presumably they have both nights in full in the archives. |
| brENsKi 02.11.2004 08:02 |
how about earls court as the main dvd feature with hammy75 and rainbow 74 as the "extara features"? - now thatt woudl be a dvd and a half!!! |
| Regor 02.11.2004 08:11 |
I assumed there are overdubs and was affirmed in the thread above - I would LOVE it if there are no overdubs, as I hate the thought of correcting a live recording. And I know that it is quite common, I heard it on Police Live recordings for example... But basically the harmonies on Rainbow sound more like Freddie alone doubletracking himself and adding harmonies, I can't actually hear Roger or Brian. But if so, then the better it is ! So I stand corrected. |
| SilverShoes 02.11.2004 11:22 |
Negative Creep wrote: Another myth.... Live At The Rainbow ISN'T heavily overdubbed. That whole issue arose as people don't believe they were capable of such a great performance so early on.It's not a matter of whether or not they could play that well so early on. It's a matter of it sounding, to my ears, at least, like there's more going on than is possible from four musicians. For instance, how are they're getting the whistling effects in Now I'm Here? Or the arpeggios at the beginning of Father To Son? And maybe I'm wrong, but it still sounds like there's more than just four people singing on some bits in Ogre Battle. <<I think you'll find if they went to the trouble of overdubbing on every song they would have produced a stero mix. >> Why do you say that? If it was being produced for TV or cinema, then they would do the mix in mono, as stereo TV didn't exist back then, and I don't think they were doing stereo for cinema sound yet, either. So, the mix would have been done in mono. |
| Negative Creep 02.11.2004 13:32 |
I'm no expert on the history of cinema, but I would have thought cinemas were capable of reproducing a stereo signal by 1974... music was no longer mixed in mono by that point (hadn't been for several years), so I don't see why film would be. Theres definitely no more that 3 voices on the Rainbow audio. I think what might be confusing you is that along with the long delay on Freddies vox on Now I'm here theres also slapback echo on all his vocals, as there is on every song - very common practise. I'd be surprised if they had the time or the inclination to go overdubbing a gig that was only ever going to be shown at the cinema, not even in its own right. At that point, i'd be surprised theyd want to release an overdubbed gig... i'm sure if they heard the audio back and thought it needed work they wouldn't have issued it in any form. |
| SilverShoes 02.11.2004 13:37 |
Negative Creep wrote: I'm no expert on the history of cinema, but I would have thought cinemas were capable of reproducing a stereo signal by 1974... music was no longer mixed in mono by that point (hadn't been for several years), so I don't see why film would be. Theres definitely no more that 3 voices on the Rainbow audio. I think what might be confusing you is that along with the long delay on Freddies vox on Now I'm here theres also slapback echo on all his vocals, as there is on every song - very common practise. I'd be surprised if they had the time or the inclination to go overdubbing a gig that was only ever going to be shown at the cinema, not even in its own right. At that point, i'd be surprised theyd want to release an overdubbed gig... i'm sure if they heard the audio back and thought it needed work they wouldn't have issued it in any form.I'm not an expert on the history of cinema either, but I don't think it was until the late 70's or 80's before movies were done in stereo sound. How did Live At The Rainbow go from being a theatrical release to being shown on TV? I always had the understanding it was produced for the BBC for television purposes. |
| Negative Creep 02.11.2004 13:55 |
I know TV was still broadcast in mono into the 80's, but I would have thought stereo would have been used in cinemas by then. Maybe someone has more knowledge on that? I don't believe Live At The Rainbow was ever broadcast on TV or that it was filmed for the BBC (?). I've always been lead to believe it was only shown as a support film in British cinemas. |
| Adam Baboolal 02.11.2004 14:24 |
Forget Stereo in theatres, because by 1971 they were trying out Quad sound in some places. Obviously it didn't take off because people didn't have a clue on how to make it work well and consistently. But it does show you that Stereo was definitely around and that they'd moved onto the next movement. Peace, Adam. |
| The Real Wizard 02.11.2004 15:07 |
Ah yeah, there are edits galore on the Rainbow video. Great footage overall, but I'd like to see this more complete, and without cuts and vocal overdubs. |
| Rick 02.11.2004 15:10 |
John Deacon - bassguitar, vocals, triangle There've you got it, 4 voices, believe it or not, het gets the credit. |
| Negative Creep 02.11.2004 15:26 |
Yes, I thought films would have been in stereo by then. Edits - yes. Vocal overdubs - no. They only edited it down for cinema release as it wasn't feature length. I wouldn't mind having the already released version on DVD, but its would of course be ideal if there was more of the fotoage still in the archives. Knowing QP, theyve probably lost it though! |
| NTL 02.11.2004 15:38 |
The Rainbow gig has more overdubs than anything I have heard its terrable. Not only are the BVs overdubd I think I am correct in saying that Freddie re-recorded the lead vocal on Now Im Here, Ogre Battle, White Queen, ITLOTG, Killer Queen, ITLOTG revisited and Jailhouse Rock !!!!. I cant even watch it without cringing. |
| Negative Creep 02.11.2004 15:41 |
Sorry to tell you, buy youre TOTALLY wrong. If you had bothered to read any of this thread.... |
| NTL 02.11.2004 15:53 |
Sorry to tell you but I am TOTALLY right. And I suppose Wembley also has no overdubs ? |
| Bohardy 02.11.2004 15:57 |
Negative Creep: Have you actually watched the Rainbow gig recently? Everything NTL said was absolutely spot-on. If YOU'D bothered to read any of this thread you'd see that only you are so deaf and blind as to believe that there are no overdubs on Rainbow, and so far there've been 4 people (5 including me) that believe, actually make that KNOW, that the exact opposite is true. As NTL said, the overdubbing is so obvious it's almost cringeworthy, almost as cringeworthy in fact as your naive belief that there are no overdubs. |
| Negative Creep 02.11.2004 16:06 |
yawn... I have actually watched it very recently & its bullshit that theres are loads of overdubs. Its comments made by people like yourself that don't understand the techniques used to mix the recording. Also, do you actually think the band would have had the funds or given the funds to go in to a studio to overdub a live recording that was never intended for proper release? Don't think so! I dont think you quite realise how incredibly difficult it would have been for them at that time to have overdubbed anything considering they would have already used up pretty much all the channels on the tape. They also must have worked miracles totally removing vocals from a primitive live recording and overdubbing them to sound so naturally live. I think youve forgotten it was filmed and recorded in 1974 darling. |
| Negative Creep 02.11.2004 16:08 |
I'm well aware of the overdubs on Wembley - for a start its fuckin obvious from watching parts of it, but it was also common practise by that point to overdub live recordings as they had the technology! |
| kohuept 02.11.2004 16:10 |
I know during KQ, maybe even other songs, you can clearly hear the reverb of the actual lead vocal. As for the arpeggio (sp?) at the beginning of F2S, i just though they played the tape. i've never heard another live version so i have nothing to compare. |
| Negative Creep 02.11.2004 16:16 |
Yes, thats played over the PA via tape, exactly like Procession and the siren sounds on Now I'm Here. Next, people will be claiming Live Killers is heavily overdubbed too. |
| NTL 02.11.2004 16:32 |
Was that supposed to be sarcastic ?, as Live Killers is heavily overdubbed. |
| brENsKi 02.11.2004 17:11 |
live killers - ah yes, that (ahem) classic!!! 23 tracks taken from over 50 concerts - some serious fekkin editing...and some classiy overdubs - that make the whole concert experience sound washed out |
| kohuept 03.11.2004 12:55 |
I'm not doubting the LK overdubs by any means, but is there really anything substantial? I know little thinks like the pop in Bicycle Race and the echo on Freddie's into to NIH were done. btw: I did do a quick search and didn't find any info, so sorry if this is somewhere in the open. |
| earwig 03.11.2004 13:35 |
link You could do a lot worse than check this great site out!!! But be warned - you'll never listen to the album in the same way again!!!! |
| deleted user 03.11.2004 13:37 |
I suggest that you thank the QZoner who made the site. Sir GH, where are you? |
| kohuept 03.11.2004 14:08 |
Absolutely: THANK YOU! I must have read a reference to this sometime in the past to know about the bits I mentioned. Can't remember where, though. Very cool. Thanks to the creator and thanks for pointing me to it. |
| AlexRocks 03.11.2004 15:52 |
Did you all know that "Live At The Rainbow" was shown in some theaters?! Did you know that it was shown before a certain other film? Do you know what film that that was? It was Led Zeppelin's "The Song Remains The Same". Supposedly this was only done in select theaters. |
| SilverShoes 03.11.2004 18:25 |
Negative Creep wrote: yawn... I have actually watched it very recently & its bullshit that theres are loads of overdubs. Its comments made by people like yourself that don't understand the techniques used to mix the recording. Also, do you actually think the band would have had the funds or given the funds to go in to a studio to overdub a live recording that was never intended for proper release? Don't think so! I dont think you quite realise how incredibly difficult it would have been for them at that time to have overdubbed anything considering they would have already used up pretty much all the channels on the tape. They also must have worked miracles totally removing vocals from a primitive live recording and overdubbing them to sound so naturally live. I think youve forgotten it was filmed and recorded in 1974 darling.Actually, starting in the mid 70's, it was VERY common to do overdubs on live albums. Members of The Grateful Dead have admitted there's lots of overdubs on their Europe '72 album (keyboardist Merl Saunders, who did not play with The Dead on that tour, even recieved a gold album for his participation in the overdubs). It's been said that most of Frampton Comes Alive was heavily overdubbed, and Tony Visconti, who produced Thin Lizzy's Live And Dangerous, claims that on that album, the only thing they DIDN'T overdub was the drums! It's amazing the things you can do with overdubs. As for Live At The Rainbow not being filmed by the BBC, I could have sworn they were mentioned in the closing credits. I recognize the names in the closing credits (ie producer, director, etc) as having been involved in other concerts that the BBC produced, and the style of the closing credits match those shows too. |
| Want To Live Forever 03.11.2004 22:07 |
<marquee><font color = green>Brenski wrote: how about earls court as the main dvd feature with hammy75 and rainbow 74 as the "extara features"? - now thatt woudl be a dvd and a half!!!do you want it with Brian, Roger and John's autograph, my dear? he he he i hope they release at least one of them. |
| Wilki Amieva 05.11.2004 18:52 |
The theatrical version lasts about 20 mins. It is mono. |
| John S Stuart 05.11.2004 19:00 |
"I Just Wanna testify" that I saw the "Live At The Rainbow" as the "b" movie to John Travolta's "Saturday Night Fever" c1978/79! |
| The Real Wizard 20.11.2004 00:29 |
<font color="whitesmoke">bambam</> wrote: I suggest that you thank the QZoner who made the site. Sir GH, where are you?Wow, am I ever behind in QZ. This is weeks old. No prob... glad you guys enjoyed the analysis. Can't wait for more 79 bootlegs so I can keep updating. |
| ploughman 23.08.2009 18:33 |
I noticed from the first listening/watching that Live at Rainbow was heavily overdubbed. You don't need to have a diploma to figure that out. First of all, there are definitely more than 3 voices happening during the choirs. Then there is the comparison thing. If you compare this concert to the other ones from Sheer Heart Attack tour, you can hear they were different. For instance, they newer sang "Just a new man!" thing on Now I'm Here as a choir....exept for this Rainbow show. And it even sound like 6 or more different voices. On many choirs you can hear Freddie singing multiple parts. It's easy to hear his vocal timbre, which is doing different harmony parts. It's all sound too full and polished for being 100% live. Anyone, who has seen/heard bootlegs, can feel the difference. |
| ploughman 23.08.2009 18:48 |
Funnilly: There seems to be two versions? The one without too many overdubs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3PE9aPNvKs&feature=related On this one, there still are a few. Listen to the beginning. Freddies lead voice is different to the delayed sound. So he overdubbed the lead-voice but the delayed voice comes from the live-situation! Also, the choirs are only 3 voices here. But as for here, see for yourself. The choirs are WAY too FAT to be live! link |
| The Real Wizard 24.08.2009 11:23 |
It's no secret that the Rainbow video is dripping with fix-ups and edits. But what you've pointed out is probably the most blatant example of it, as the band themselves released the more raw version on the Greatest Video Hits DVD. So good work putting them both in one place. Now that the vocal overdubs have been removed between 3:23 and 3:30, the guitar is heard much more clearly. Listen to how different the guitar tone is compared to the rest of the song. Maybe that's an overdub too? One bar was cut out leading into the vocal, so maybe something went wrong...? |
| ploughman 24.08.2009 17:46 |
I gues that the bit you are refering to, ie. the end of solo part before the last chorus, is explainable. Part of the band (mainly Freddie and Roger) missed one bar live, and went too early to the chorus. Brian didn't, and that's why he had to overdub the guitar fot that part in studio afterwards, to make it sound "together". It's is great that they seem to have the master tapes somewhere. How else, could they have been remixing this thing GVH I? I just hope, they would release it WITHOUT the stupid choir-overdubs and preferably with Freddies original voice aswell. On this GVHI version the lead vocal is still post-recorded in studio. |
| Yara 24.08.2009 22:58 |
I agree, Ploughman. And it's basically the studio versions with some live snipets. It sounds way too phony even for an untrained ear or someone who isn't acknowledge with Queen. It may sound silly, but that tells something about Queen's music: it was as much a product of advances in technology as of their talent. Besides Freddie, none of the guys were really great singers - and one can easily notice that the lush vocal harmonies are the part of their music which suffers the most live. There's the wonderful dream and the illusion sold by the music industry - and this is not a criticism: it took both talent and advances in technology to make it all happen - and the reality on stage. On stage Freddie's gentle tune, full and prominent falsettos and Queen's big vocal harmonies were all but absent and that's why when I first listened to them live I thought that there was "too much lacking". It was understandable - the more you rely on sound engineering to produce a sound you're unable to produce naturally by yourself, the sharper the feeling of something lacking in the live performances. On the other hand, the live versions were never intended to be a copy of the studio albums and aimed at something different - and they eventually managed to circumvent this sense of "emptiness" by speeding up some rockers, by turning the whole stage and the lightning into part of the songs, and so on. Just a little digression, but I think the Rainbow footage is quite symbolic in this regard. |
| Planetgurl 25.08.2009 04:55 |
AlexRocks wrote: Did you all know that "Live At The Rainbow" was shown in some theaters?! Did you know that it was shown before a certain other film? Do you know what film that that was? It was Led Zeppelin's "The Song Remains The Same". Supposedly this was only done in select theaters.Yes Alex is right - the BFI have this edited down film and on the notes it says it was shown to support the Zep film |
| Negative Creep 25.08.2009 07:12 |
Yara wrote: it's basically the studio versions with some live snipets. Not really - that would be a near impossible task in 1974 and none of the versions sound remotely like the album versions. All the drums and bass will be live and untouched, and the majority of vocals and guitar will be original aswell. There may well be touch ups here and there, but nowhere near as many as some people like to think - based mostly on the heavy use of vocal delays which double up a lot of the vocals and the out of sync footage from 2 nights worth of footage. |
| Yara 25.08.2009 08:04 |
I stand corrected, then. Basically the live version with some edits here and there. :) And thanks for the info and the points raised. I'll pay more attention to it next time I watch the footage. |
| The Real Wizard 25.08.2009 12:01 |
Yara wrote: Besides Freddie, none of the guys were really great singers - and one can easily notice that the lush vocal harmonies are the part of their music which suffers the most live.Certainly, in the later years. But in the early years their vocal harmonies were very often bang on. Roger Taylor had one hell of a voice in his prime. It was understandable - the more you rely on sound engineering to produce a sound you're unable to produce naturally by yourself, the sharper the feeling of something lacking in the live performances.Very, very true. But not being able to reproduce it certainly doesn't have to be a bad thing! On the other hand, the live versions were never intended to be a copy of the studio albums and aimed at something different - and they eventually managed to circumvent this sense of "emptiness" by speeding up some rockers, by turning the whole stage and the lightning into part of the songs, and so on. Just a little digression, but I think the Rainbow footage is quite symbolic in this regard. Excellent point. |
| on my way up 25.08.2009 13:13 |
Queen in the seventies were truly a brilliant live band that had it all. To me the recently emerged recordings have proven that once again and I hope many more will follow:-) As Bob says, early on their vocals were bang on, they were tight but with room for creativity and their presentation was always top notch as were their setlists(an aspect that rarely gets a mention). I sincerely hope Queen Productions will do this era justice, I think it is possible. Ok, this was off-topic:-) |
| jamster1111 25.08.2009 13:28 |
live at the rainbow was NOT overdubbed at all...it was just probably the best queen performance caught on video. Freddie's voice sounds amazing and everyone is at the top of their game. They should remaster it even more and release it as an official dvd. They shouldn't release live at the hammersmith '75. |
| pittrek 25.08.2009 14:50 |
jamster1111 wrote: live at the rainbow was NOT overdubbed at all...it was just probably the best queen performance caught on video. Freddie's voice sounds amazing and everyone is at the top of their game.They should remaster it even more and release it as an official dvd. They shouldn't release live at the hammersmith '75. Have you actually read this thread ? Have you watched the youtube links ? Have you actually LISTENED to the audio ? If at least one of the answers is yes, I don't understand why you do believe that there are no overdubs. Or are you the director / editor of the film ? :-) If you're sure about it, could you write some arguments ? Because I personally think that Now I'm Here is almost completely overdubbed, only the drums, the vocal echos and some of Brian's guitar work appears to be "real". |
| Yara 25.08.2009 15:47 |
on my way up wrote: I sincerely hope Queen Productions will do this era justice, I think it is possible. Ok, this was off-topic:-) This is never off-topic. This is always a topic lurking behind all threads. :) |
| Yara 25.08.2009 16:23 |
Sir GH wrote:Yara wrote: Besides Freddie, none of the guys were really great singers - and one can easily notice that the lush vocal harmonies are the part of their music which suffers the most live.Certainly, in the later years. But in the early years their vocal harmonies were very often bang on. Roger Taylor had one hell of a voice in his prime. Believe me, despite all those differences between live&studio, or maybe because of them, I love Queen's live performances in general, even in the later years. I'd go as far as saying that I like the live versions of many songs better than the studio versions; and I'd also go as far as saying that if they don't release Hammersmith '79 soon I'll blow myself up in the QP building and become the first jihadist against QP's imperial greedy policies. I know I made a silly exaggerated point above ("basically the studio..."), and I'm the first to recognize it, but it was not intended as something literal, it's just my impression that this concert in particular at the Rainbow was heavily edited or tampered with. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe I haven't watched it for a long time. But that's the impression I have. I like Roger's voice. My point is not bashing the guys. I like the way Roger & Freddie interacted and harmonized some of the high-notes Freddie couldn't or didn't want to go for live -> a good example would be If You Can't Be Them, starting at "hanging around for sooomeone to call..." when they beautifully modulate the song to E - it's an A4 in the studio I guess, if my memory serves me right - for a good deal of time. I really enjoy listening to their live recordings. But the edits in "At The Rainbow", exactly because they make it sound so polished and even "robotic" to me, especially with regard to some vocal harmonies, spoil a bit of the fun. To my taste at least. I love the footage, though, and I remember it seemed to be a great performance anyway. My point being: it's normal and understandable that the vocal harmonies would suffer the most live, even in their prime. I have no quibbles with that because, giving the goals they set themselves, they faired very well live and many times the vocal harmonies were just beautiful and sounded much more natural - I love their vocal harmonies in Montreal '78, for instance, and I think even though Freddie's voice is suffering a good deal, my favorite version of "Spread Your Wings", studio included, comes from that concert. So...I'm not attacking them as live performers, by no means. |
| Angeline 25.08.2009 16:28 |
I find the overdubbing disappointing solely because as I never got to see Queen live, I'd always hoped to be able to experience it through the videos of their concerts. Can someone please tell me is there any live footage on you tube that is NOT overdubbed? Is Live At The Bowl overdubbed? Rather naively I supposed that overdubbing was only used where cutting/editing really required it, or on the odd totally bunged note. I'm so disappointed! [img=/images/smiley/msn/sad_smile.gif][/img] |
| The Real Wizard 25.08.2009 17:59 |
Yara wrote: But the edits in "At The Rainbow", exactly because they make it sound so polished and even "robotic" to me, especially with regard to some vocal harmonies, spoil a bit of the fun. To my taste at least.Yeah, I totally get that. Albums are made to be polished, and live albums should be "live", as per their name. If a couple of wrong notes are played or sung live, that's the beauty of it.. the fact that they're human. That's why my all-time favourite live album is Chicago at Carnegie. It's full of wrong notes... so real and raw. Angeline wrote: Can someone please tell me is there any live footage on you tube that is NOT overdubbed? Look up footage from Hammersmith Odeon '75 and Munich '78 for starters. But the best way to hear concerts in their complete, unedited form is to listen to audience recordings. While many of them are bad, many are quite good - for example, Boston '76, Montreal '78, and Chicago '80. They're all available for download here. |
| Yara 25.08.2009 18:15 |
Angeline wrote: I find the overdubbing disappointing solely because as I never got to see Queen live, I'd always hoped to be able to experience it through the videos of their concerts. Can someone please tell me is there any live footage on you tube that is NOT overdubbed? Is Live At The Bowl overdubbed? Rather naively I supposed that overdubbing was only used where cutting/editing really required it, or on the odd totally bunged note. I'm so disappointed! [img=/images/smiley/msn/sad_smile.gif][/img] Yes, some minor edits, to my taste. But both Montreal 1981 and At The Bowl '82 have very minor edits. Those performances were really very good. To my taste, again. What's interesting about Queenzone is that you can download some live concerts which have never been edited or overdubbed and see for yourself that many of Queen's most impressive performances haven't even been oficially released. They were really very good as a live act. Regarding Montreal 81 and At The Bowl 82: there's some minor - to my taste, at least - editing, but both represent these Queen's concerts quite faithfuly. You can even notice the flaws: e.g, Freddie forgetting the lines in "Save Me" and "Dragon Attack" in Montreal, 1981. Nevertheless, it's a stunning, wonderful and impressive gig throughout. Ironically it's one of the best live versions of Save Me and the way he recovers the line is one of the highlights of the gig. :op There's always the silly stuff of doing some collage of the two nights, but that's always sounded to me so minor. Nothing that would spoil my joy at listening to these gigs. Don't be like that...hey, smile, cheer up, come on. Hehe. Like, it's not as if they played the whole concert again in the studio. There are to my taste some very minor edits in "At The Bowl" and "Live in Montreal". The performances were really top-notch and, as I wrote above, I think the very best Queen concerts, including some of the best from the Hot Space Tour, haven't even been released: the Leeds gig in 1982, for instance - a pristine performance, even better than "At The Bowl", I think. Or the gig at Hammersmith in 1979 which is jaw-dropping. And I could go on and on. Cheer up. I stopped writing my paper just to help you out... ...kidding. It's just to make you feel guilty. In fact I'm bored stiff of having to finish this thing and I'm using every single pretext not to do it. It's all ok, I just have to write the conclusion, and I did wrote one, but I'd like it to sound like a great coda. Hehehe. I don't think I'm gonna make it. Should I ask someone to overdub for me and write the coda? : -)) |
| Angeline 26.08.2009 04:22 |
Thanks Yara! I do love the Montreal and Milton Keynes performances and will review the Hammy '79 as a break for writing my paper which I can guarantee is more boring (Derivative suits in Company law, anyone...) I never noticed FM forgetting the words in Dragon Attack, can't wait to check that out because I agree with you, these little fuck ups are the interesting bits to watch, they are what make a performance come to life for me. |
| pittrek 26.08.2009 04:36 |
Hi Yara, which edits are you talking about in Live At The Bowl ? I've been under the impression that the DVD is complete, just the CDs are edited (Freddie's speech before Staying Power and Brian's solo). Have I missed something ? Also the only overdub I noticed on "Bowl" is Freddie's "this locality" during Fat Bottomed Girls, did anybody find something else ? |
| Rick 26.08.2009 05:47 |
pittrek wrote: Hi Yara, which edits are you talking about in Live At The Bowl ? I've been under the impression that the DVD is complete, just the CDs are edited (Freddie's speech before Staying Power and Brian's solo). Have I missed something ? Also the only overdub I noticed on "Bowl" is Freddie's "this locality" during Fat Bottomed Girls, did anybody find something else ? I've got probably one awkward moment for your concering Live at the Bowl. Just when the second verse of Save Me starts, you will see several snippets of the concert edited together (watch Roger's drumming for instance, it doesn't make sense with the aforementioned song, plus an audience shot which was (probably) during Freddie's vocal exchange, as you can see a guy clearly mouthing 'ooooh') It could be that the video was damaged at that point, hence the decision of showing some random moments. Starts around 1:24 -> link |
| Benn 26.08.2009 11:07 |
Live At The Rainbow has overdubs taken from the studio masters of the material that was recorded for the first three albums. None of the vocal overdubs were FRESHLY done for inclusion on the film's soundtrack as this would have been cost prohibitive in terms of studio time & production. |
| therhyeman 26.08.2009 11:26 |
"Did you all know that "Live At The Rainbow" was shown in some theaters?! Did you know that it was shown before a certain other film? Do you know what film that that was? It was Led Zeppelin's "The Song Remains The Same". Supposedly this was only done in select theaters. " Not sure about anywhere else, but here in the UK, I definitely saw it as a support feature for Jaws! Tim |
| The Real Wizard 26.08.2009 19:46 |
Benn wrote: Live At The Rainbow has overdubs taken from the studio masters of the material that was recorded for the first three albums. None of the vocal overdubs were FRESHLY done for inclusion on the film's soundtrack as this would have been cost prohibitive in terms of studio time & production. Interesting thought. But how can you be sure? At the time, A Night At The Opera was the most expensive album ever made, so they had the coin. Why wouldn't there be a budget for doing overdubs for a live album or video? |
| Angeline 26.08.2009 20:39 |
Has anyone seen this - Queen in Caracus Now this sounds really live to me - am I wrong? (I could just have a very poor ear...) link |
| Benn 27.08.2009 08:52 |
Sir GH, re: >Interesting thought. But how can you be sure? > >At the time, A Night At The Opera was the most expensive album ever made, so they had the coin. Why >wouldn't there be a budget for doing overdubs for a live album or video? Well, surely, it makes perfect sense. In order to present the material recorded LIVE in 1974 and then have the (allegedly) perfect vocal hamonies required for a commercial release, they simply had to access the masters for the material recorded for the first three albums and 'cut-and-paste' over the LIVE soundtrack. This as opposed to either interrupting touring (by this time they were almost exclusively on the road) or their prescious time off and trying to get them all back together to try to replicate something that took so long to do originally. I fail to believe that Queen, *then* would have been happy re-viositing old material in the studio just as they were going through their most creative period of all. No one in their right mind would have watsed the time or the energy. Ironically, the result is embarassing in the extreme. The harmonies dubbed on don't sync with the visual and the sound is *SO* clearly removed from the live elements. Just about the only thing *LIVE* on the release is Stone Cold Crazy...... |
| Yara 27.08.2009 10:02 |
Benn wrote: Ironically, the result is embarassing in the extreme. The harmonies dubbed on don't sync with the visual and the sound is *SO* clearly removed from the live elements. Just about the only thing *LIVE* on the release is Stone Cold Crazy...... Hi, Benn. So I was right before I said that I was wrong? It's basically studio stuff with some live snippets? Would you agree with this statement? : -))) [whispering to Benn: Say yes!, please, I'm driving so many points home. Holly2003 has granted me one recently. Hehe] :op |
| Yara 27.08.2009 10:07 |
Angeline wrote: Has anyone seen this - Queen in Caracus Now this sounds really live to me - am I wrong? (I could just have a very poor ear...) link Their rendition of "I Need Your Loving Tonight" from this gig is legendary. Brian's playing is incredible and Freddie is going for most the high-notes. The vocal harmonies sound very tight. Serious: it's so engaging. If you replaced the lyrics for something about First-Rate Hedge Derivatives in Company Law according to the ius commune mercatorum or I don't know what (!?), people would die to have the chance to write your paper, I tell you. It's that good. : -) |
| The Real Wizard 27.08.2009 10:10 |
Benn wrote: I fail to believe that Queen, *then* would have been happy re-viositing old material in the studio just as they were going through their most creative period of all. No one in their right mind would have watsed the time or the energy. When you put it like that, you definitely have a good point. |
| Benn 27.08.2009 11:02 |
Yara, Yes AND no - the bulk of the performance is live, but the vocal harmonies are *almost* ALL dubbed. It'd be like having a live version of the Killer Queen solo dubbed on to the studio version...... Horrible and ugly. Perhaps they felt in such poor shape when compared to Led Zeppelin (this accompanied TSRTS) in UK cinemas that they had to *produce* the concert retrospectively. |
| Yara 27.08.2009 13:46 |
Benn wrote: Yara, Yes AND no - the bulk of the performance is live, but the vocal harmonies are *almost* ALL dubbed. It'd be like having a live version of the Killer Queen solo dubbed on to the studio version...... Horrible and ugly. Perhaps they felt in such poor shape when compared to Led Zeppelin (this accompanied TSRTS) in UK cinemas that they had to *produce* the concert retrospectively. Hey, Benn. Thanks for the answer. What you say makes sense to me. I couldn't make my historical statement, but on the other hand a learned a bit more about the band. : -)) Thanks. :p |
| Yara 27.08.2009 15:36 |
Sir GH wrote:Yara wrote: Besides Freddie, none of the guys were really great singers - and one can easily notice that the lush vocal harmonies are the part of their music which suffers the most live.Certainly, in the later years. But in the early years their vocal harmonies were very often bang on. Roger Taylor had one hell of a voice in his prime. This is my week of correcting injustices! Roger Taylor is a good singer. Not a great singer, but a very good one, good enough to sing on his own or harmonize other people's singing. My message gives the impression that I think he's talentless as a singer, which is not the case. And singing back from the drum kit is harder than just singing. There's this band thing: if Roger wasn't performing very well, it seemed Freddie was not that good as a singer - Freddie's weaknesses got all too appearant in such cases because he sang only for himself and the other guys had to adjust their playing and singing to him; but Freddie couldn't do the opposite: it's quite rare to find him adjusting his performance to help the other guys out. Sometimes he'd let Roger, and Brian with that very thin voice!, singing the harmony on their own when he was supposed to step in - and when he stepped in out of tempo it was quite annoying. He'd harmonize the vocals in the wrong key creating some unpleasant dissonances; on the other hand, it's harder to find Roger harmonizing the vocals out of key - he made clever choices, but sometimes his voice just didn't sound right coupled with Freddie's: their timber got too distinct and dissonant when Freddie dropped the pitch too much. So you have some very unpleasant endings to "Let Me Entertain You" sometimes - Roger is right on doing his "tonight" but Freddie was many times either out of key or singing ridiculously below the mid-tenor register - sometimes a whole note or a note and a half! And one can see that it's just him being lazy sometimes, while at others he's really fumbling the line. Same goes for the higher sections of "If You Can't Beat Them...", "Put Out The Fire", "Action This Day" - in Leeds, Freddie and Roger sound almost as a strong block in the higher parts of "Action This Day": "Sunshine ray in the crack...". Sometimes Freddie would harmonize beautifully, just like at Milton Keynes; and there were many times he sounded really out of place in the song. So a band is a band. :op Listening to Queen barely being able to hear the bass is too annoying. And it happened so often in the 80's. When the mix was right or someone was recording from or next to the soundboard, just like that amazing Japan gig in 1981, one can listen to John's bass quite prominently and the whole sound of the band gets so much better - more layered, thick, strong and smooth. I'm in the "correcting injustices" frenzy! It ends this week. Freddie was such a towering showman that it's all too easy to forget about the wonderful band making the music - and his singing! - possible sometimes. |
| Rick 28.08.2009 04:59 |
The Boston 1976 recording has some great harmonies overall. I love Roger's 'maaaaaaaaaaaaaan' at the end of The Prophet's Song. |
| Angeline 28.08.2009 05:40 |
Yara - I take it this is what you mean?! link UNBELIEVABLE When Brian first came in this the harmony on 'never get angry with you' I nearly spat out my morning coffee. I also love the lovely lilting timber n freddie's voice on the highest notes. Cheers!!! P.s. He actually sounds pissed off when he tells the crowd to shut up, no? |
| Yara 28.08.2009 15:54 |
Angeline wrote: Yara - I take it this is what you mean?! link UNBELIEVABLE When Brian first came in this the harmony on 'never get angry with you' I nearly spat out my morning coffee. I also love the lovely lilting timber n freddie's voice on the highest notes. Cheers!!! P.s. He actually sounds pissed off when he tells the crowd to shut up, no? Sounds great, doesn't it? Oh, he was pretty pissed off that night because of, among other things, the bugs in the sound system. Freddie puts on quite a show but that was Brian's night - his playing is absolutely amazing throughout! Glad you liked it. : -) Take care! |
| Fireplace 31.01.2010 21:29 |
Benn wrote:
Well, surely, it makes perfect sense. In order to present the material recorded LIVE in 1974 and then have the (allegedly) perfect vocal hamonies required for a commercial release, they simply had to access the masters for the material recorded for the first three albums and 'cut-and-paste' over the LIVE soundtrack. This as opposed to either interrupting touring (by this time they were almost exclusively on the road) or their prescious time off and trying to get them all back together to try to replicate something that took so long to do originally.
An interesting thought, considering the fact that the live versions of some songs were played up to 10% faster. I guess that meant using MIDI, SMPTE or the Kahler Human Clock to synchronise. Not bad for 1974. |
| Dhariy 205 15.03.2010 17:03 |
Why? Why Brain And Roger Donot Release The Rainbow, Hammersmith ,Hyde Park ,Earls And Houston When They Will Release It ? I Want Brian And Roger Hear My Message Greatings |
| Goodoldfashionedloverboy 03.01.2011 04:03 |
Is there full audio bootleg of this concert? |
| pittrek 03.01.2011 05:47 |
No, just as we replied you a hundred times ago |
| BriantaylorOBE 03.01.2011 06:28 |
Is there full audio bootleg of this concert? |
| BriantaylorOBE 03.01.2011 09:52 |
Is there full audio bootleg of this concert? |
| Holly2003 03.01.2011 15:28 |
Goodoldfashionedloverboy wrote: Is there full audio bootleg of this concert? ============================================== What's the word for "moron" in your country's language? I'm sure you've heard it often enough, so that's why I asked. Honest. |
| Hangman_96 03.01.2011 15:42 |
Goodoldfashionedloverboy wrote: Is there full audio bootleg of this concert? =================================== Anton, is it you? Something tells me not. So whoever you are, please stop posting the same idiotic questions in every thread. |
| Goodoldfashionedloverboy 03.01.2011 15:58 |
I don't care a bit that my post somebody repeat I am individual man |
| emrabt 03.01.2011 16:16 |
I don't care a bit that my post somebody repeat I am individual man ================================================ Translation??: "i don’t care a bit that i've (sometimes??) repeated my posts, I’m an individual man, i can do what i like." Did you write it, if you did, Stop posting that question, just press the post button once. we know you don't care, but you're only annoying people. |
| Gregsynth 03.01.2011 17:11 |
I don't think a full version of Rainbow exists. The only things I'm aware of, are the official release (the edited 60 minute version with audio from both nights), and 3 tracks from the next night. Concerning the edits and overdubs, I know the audio and picture don't always match up, and there was overdubs done on the backing vocals. They gotta re-release this concert with everything CORRECTED! |
| MERQRY 04.01.2011 01:22 |
Gregsynth wrote: I don't think a full version of Rainbow exists. The only things I'm aware of, are the official release (the edited 60 minute version with audio from both nights), and 3 tracks from the next night. Concerning the edits and overdubs, I know the audio and picture don't always match up, and there was overdubs done on the backing vocals. They gotta re-release this concert with everything CORRECTED! I think that the full footage from the first,second of both nights should be in someplace in the archives of queen... i dont belive that they have paid the recording in 35 mm (these recordings cost much money) of the shows for later make an edit and delete the rest of them... i dont find reason for take complete footage of both nights made a kind of strange mix and later simply earse the rest of the expensive footage... moreover the cinemas in 1975 shows an half hour version of the show... tought in the release of 1992,22 minutes were added...i suppose that these 22 minutes are from the masters... Greetings! |
| Ghostwithasmile is BACK! 04.01.2011 07:10 |
@ gregsynth Queenp found 1-2 years ago the complete recordings from november 19th rainbow on film. Short bits where shown at a convention which I believe was 2010. Many speculations went around which show it had to be, someone thought I must be Edingburgh Playhouse theatre, because some "expert"said it was late 76 footage.So another "expert"claimed it had to be Edinburgh 76. I always wondered why never a 3rd ë xpert"stood up , claiming it was from a specific odate from the 2 Edinburgh shows in 76. but before hydepark. Though not a date was given by GB while airing the footage. It is from the complete film but november 19th. Shortly I think that the footlage which is out there isn;t from november 20th but from the 19th. Because someone at Queenp was very clear the 19th was found, and never they spoke about footage from the 20th. While the official video vhs release from STAR the sleeve mentioned that the footage was filmed on november 19th and 20th. Somehow it became common knowledge it had to be from nov. 20th. But GB was very clear the footage recently found was nov. 19th. |
| pittrek 04.01.2011 07:19 |
Any idea why did they use for they "Absolute Greatest" videos some source which looks much much worse than my old VCD copy ? |
| Ghostwithasmile is BACK! 04.01.2011 07:52 |
For those who don't know : - on the back side of the STAR vhs 1992 from the Rainbow is written that lost footage was found and edited back in. That's correct the original promo footage which was aired before the song remains the same in the cinema. was shorter about 28 minutes. There was a more complete edit from this show which lasted 52 minutes. I don;t know at this point if the footage that was found was edit in the 28 minutes edit or that the complete 52 minute edit was found and released like the way it was found. I do think it was the first option. They had the 28 min edit and additional footage was added to the 28 minute edit and made a total of 52 minutes running time. The footage found was in MONO and not stereo! So the whole tape was released in MONO sound! Of course this only speculation but it is most likely. Any of you ever wondered if the bootleg from SAN FRANSISCO 1975-03-30 is indeed one of the Rainbow shows nov 19th or 20th. I believe it is.... |
| Hangman_96 04.01.2011 08:27 |
Cool, interesting info about San Francisco 1975! Where did you get an info about it? |
| pittrek 04.01.2011 08:38 |
Do you mean the 3 tracks from San Francisco, or do you mean some other bootleg which claims to be from SF ? |
| Ghostwithasmile is BACK! 04.01.2011 10:47 |
I do believe that the bootleg from San Fran. the 3 tracks bootleg which are commonly known are from 1 of the rainbow shows! So not another bootleg, wich I'd had that one. Remember the other 3 tracks were also incorrect labeled as Adelaide 76....And recently appeared in high quality online.... So keep hoping for the rest of the show! In the latter quality of the trident tape. |
| The Real Wizard 04.01.2011 11:18 |
Interesting posts. But I doubt the San Francisco recording is mislabeled... it sounds like an audience recording to me. But I'll happily be proven wrong, especially if it's some kind of clue that more Rainbow tracks will circulate.. |
| pittrek 04.01.2011 11:38 |
Interesting thought. Procession is definitely the same, but that's because it's a taped intro :-) Now I'm Here - COULD be the same, the annoying sound problems are on the parts which are definitely overdubbed on the Rainbow video. No idea about Ogre Battle. Anyway - how often did Freddie say "the nasty Queenies are back" ? And "it's really nice to be back, it really is ? " |
| Hangman_96 04.01.2011 11:46 |
pittrek wrote: Interesting thought. Procession is definitely the same, but that's because it's a taped intro :-) Now I'm Here - COULD be the same, the annoying sound problems are on the parts which are definitely overdubbed on the Rainbow video. No idea about Ogre Battle. Anyway - how often did Freddie say "the nasty Queenies are back" ? And "it's really nice to be back, it really is ? " ======================== Excellent catch with Freddie's speech! I just wanted to say about it, this speech very identical to the Rainbow's speech which leads me to believe that these three SF tracks can really be from Rainbow. But I can be mistaken though. |
| Ghostwithasmile is BACK! 04.01.2011 14:04 |
pittrek wrote: Interesting thought. Procession is definitely the same, but that's because it's a taped intro :-) Now I'm Here - COULD be the same, the annoying sound problems are on the parts which are definitely overdubbed on the Rainbow video. No idea about Ogre Battle. Anyway - how often did Freddie say "the nasty Queenies are back" ? And "it's really nice to be back, it really is ? " >>>>> And of course Fred said "it's nice really nice to be back"at a please they hadn't played during the Queen II tour. Hence Queen had never been in SF until the 75 tour. |
| Wilki Amieva 04.01.2011 15:43 |
Hope the following will shed some light... From a Brian May's letter to the IQFC, dated January 18th 1975, printed on the February/March Newsletter: " [...] At the moment we're working every day and most nights on our film of the Rainbow concert, mixing and editing [it] to a suitable form for the "Whistle Test" and such like - so you'll be able to see us while we're away in the U.S.A. and Japan [...]." From the IQFC Newsletter, June/July 1975: "[...] The film taken of QUEEN at the Rainbow has not been used for TV as planned, but is to be re-edited as a full lenght documentary and released to cinemas, we'll let you know when and where. [...]." |
| The Real Wizard 04.01.2011 23:52 |
ghostwithasmile wrote: "And of course Fred said "it's nice really nice to be back"at a please they hadn't played during the Queen II tour. Hence Queen had never been in SF until the 75 tour." Hmm, very true.. they didn't do the west coast in '74. I think you're onto something here.. |
| Gregsynth 05.01.2011 00:05 |
Should I compare the Rainbow 1974 tracks to San Francisco 1975? |
| The Real Wizard 05.01.2011 00:16 |
I've already done it... they are definitely from two different shows. But since there were two nights at the Rainbow, anything is possible I guess.. |
| Gregsynth 05.01.2011 00:19 |
I just wished we had the full Rainbow gigs! |
| The Real Wizard 05.01.2011 14:22 |
Let's just not be swayed by the "nasty Queenies" comment on both recordings. Freddie referred to the band as such on the 1975 tour in Boston (and probably more shows)... and even in 1977. |
| Planetgurl 07.01.2011 19:12 |
Gregsynth wrote: I just wished we had the full Rainbow gigs! I wasn't there for either night but I was so desperate to go. Hence I read and reread the reviews afterwards. I do hope the review by Rosie Horide comes to light because I remember her saying that "Tuesday(?-ie. the first of the two nights) night could have been a disaster. The mixer blew up in the afternoon..." and then goes onto say that the sound cut out during perhaps Liar (?) and that "Roger did a 10 minutes dazzling drum display" whilst things were fixed... I no longer have this article but do remember they had problems with the sound on one of the nights - probably the first. Knowing the limitations of sound stripes on film even in the early '80's, my guess is the film would have been played in selected cinemas where they had special projectors that had two heads: one for the visual and the other head for the separate mono mag(netic) stock which the sound would have been on. These two reels would be synced in the projector - you matched up both start frames of both the film and the mag stock. Pink Floyd did this with Live at Pompeii, in 1972 - the sound mag stock to accompany the visuals was lying around at Advision Studios one time when I was there (this was when they were clearing out the studio). Not every cinema had these projectors - it was quite specialist. Not sure about the overdubbing technicalities in the 70's and how the hell you would sync the film visuals with loads of studio overdubbing, especially using mag stock Vs recording studio tape. Must have been done at the TV editing stage if it was planned to be a Whistle Test programme, then dumped down onto mag stock again for cinema release once the TV programme was abandoned. |
| The Real Wizard 07.01.2011 19:55 |
Thank you for that excellent insight. I owe you a PM response... coming soon ! |
| Planetgurl 08.01.2011 11:26 |
Sir GH wrote: Thank you for that excellent insight. I owe you a PM response... coming soon ! Ta, Bob - got all your emails and replied to them all... |
| Rick 09.01.2011 06:41 |
Did Roger ever nail the screaming part in Lap Of The Gods? I simply can't believe he sang that part so clean at the Rainbow. Must have been a studio trick. |
| The Real Wizard 09.01.2011 13:16 |
Nope.. he actually nailed it every night. Listen to any audience recording from the Sheer Heart Attack tour. The sound mixer just added a slight phaser etffect to it. |
| GT 16.01.2011 00:18 |
"Tuesday(?-ie. the first of the two nights) night could have been a disaster. The mixer blew up in the afternoon..." and then goes onto say that the sound cut out during perhaps Liar (?) and that "Roger did a 10 minutes dazzling drum display" whilst things were fixed... Actually the problems were during 'Liar' and occurred on the second night on the 20th. It's fascinating to watch, but RT's solo wasn't that long. |
| pittrek 16.01.2011 05:38 |
GT with all the respect I have to you, please could you instead of "teasing us" go to the "correct persons" and tell them that many of us would sell our mothers for seeing a complete 1974 Queen video ? :-) |
| GT 16.01.2011 12:29 |
I agree with you Pittrek, lets hope for a Rainbow DVD sooner than later. Unfortunately I can't imagine the band wanting anyone to see this, as it is all rather awkward when it happened, FM is lost for words. In which case if anything, they would use the other night's version. |
| pittrek 16.01.2011 12:45 |
Currently ANY 70's DVD would be absolutely perfect :-) |
| Planetgurl 16.01.2011 12:45 |
GT wrote: "Tuesday(?-ie. the first of the two nights) night could have been a disaster. The mixer blew up in the afternoon..." and then goes onto say that the sound cut out during perhaps Liar (?) and that "Roger did a 10 minutes dazzling drum display" whilst things were fixed... Actually the problems were during 'Liar' and occurred on the second night on the 20th. It's fascinating to watch, but RT's solo wasn't that long. Thanks for this - I was recounting this from memory and from the Rosie Horide review of the gig. I knew it was from one of the nights...... |
| Queenman!! 16.01.2011 14:16 |
GT wrote: "Tuesday(?-ie. the first of the two nights) night could have been a disaster. The mixer blew up in the afternoon..." and then goes onto say that the sound cut out during perhaps Liar (?) and that "Roger did a 10 minutes dazzling drum display" whilst things were fixed... Actually the problems were during 'Liar' and occurred on the second night on the 20th. It's fascinating to watch, but RT's solo wasn't that long. ================ GT.... Could you please confirm that both night were shot on 32 mm film. Is this also double anamorphic and could be the same quality as Queen rock montreal? |
| Queenman!! 16.01.2011 14:23 |
GT wrote: I agree with you Pittrek, lets hope for a Rainbow DVD sooner than later. Unfortunately I can't imagine the band wanting anyone to see this, as it is all rather awkward when it happened, FM is lost for words. In which case if anything, they would use the other night's version. =============== Well it could be really amusing to put a few songs, including that major problem, of that concert on the bonus disc if a DVD would be released in the future. Let's not forget the problems with Brian's guitar during his guitarsolo on the Milton Keynes Bowl DVD. And maybe an interview and the backstage footage of that show on the bonus disc |
| GT 17.01.2011 10:52 |
GT.... Could you please confirm that both night were shot on 32 mm film. Is this also double anamorphic and could be the same quality as Queen rock montreal? The shows were actually shot on 2" tape, which was the best quality format at the time. |
| brians wig 17.01.2011 13:08 |
GT wrote: GT.... Could you please confirm that both night were shot on 32 mm film. Is this also double anamorphic and could be the same quality as Queen rock montreal? The shows were actually shot on 2" tape, which was the best quality format at the time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Hang on. So the edit that was shown at the cinema then is actually a telecine transfer from 2" tape? Wow. That's excellent news. the 1970's 2" video tape look is beautiful and I much prefer it to the 80's 1" tape and every other recording format since then. I'd be over the moon if either one or both of these concerts was released in full as originally shot, ie interlaced!!! God, i can't stand de-interlaced material. |
| brians wig 17.01.2011 13:11 |
ghostwithasmile wrote: @ gregsynth Queenp found 1-2 years ago the complete recordings from november 19th rainbow on film. Short bits where shown at a convention which I believe was 2010 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Which convention was this at then? I've not missed a UK convention for 12 years and I've never seen this footage. Certainly the session GB did at last years UK convention showed only out-takes from recording numerous promo videos |
| Queenman!! 17.01.2011 14:00 |
GT wrote: GT.... Could you please confirm that both night were shot on 32 mm film. Is this also double anamorphic and could be the same quality as Queen rock montreal? The shows were actually shot on 2" tape, which was the best quality format at the time. ==================== Thank you for being honest and heading straight to the question. |
| The Real Wizard 17.01.2011 14:29 |
I second that. My apologies to Gary for some of the harsh things I've said in the past. Clearly he has turned out to be a force for the good. |
| Queenman!! 17.01.2011 15:30 |
Sir GH wrote: I second that. My apologies to Gary for some of the harsh things I've said in the past. Clearly he has turned out to be a force for the good. ==================== Without pointing a finger towards any direction, I must say this unbelieve and a kind of anger a lot of the Queenzoners have gained for the last years, isn't really directly a shot to QP. It's mainly a few figures working for QP who can't deal with the situation in communicating in a decent way at Queenzone. In fact there are quite a few Zoners who have quite a extreme good memory when it come to Queen related issues and anyone who thinks to fool those people by carrot dangling etc. get's punished for what he deserves. So be nice for people, keep your word and you get a lot of useful en helpful information back from the boys and girls on Queenzone. |
| Planetgurl 18.01.2011 06:29 |
brians wig wrote: GT wrote: GT.... Could you please confirm that both night were shot on 32 mm film. Is this also double anamorphic and could be the same quality as Queen rock montreal? The shows were actually shot on 2" tape, which was the best quality format at the time. ----------------------------------------------------------- Hang on. So the edit that was shown at the cinema then is actually a telecine transfer from 2" tape? Wow. That's excellent news. the 1970's 2" video tape look is beautiful and I much prefer it to the 80's 1" tape and every other recording format since then. I'd be over the moon if either one or both of these concerts was released in full as originally shot, ie interlaced!!! God, i can't stand de-interlaced material. Great to know this - much better Telecine than film... |
| GinjaNinja 23.01.2011 17:00 |
Hold on, if the power cut out during Liar on the second night, then what date are the 3 trident reel-to-reel tracks from? (Son And Daughter, Stone Cold Crazy and Liar) They must either be from the previous night at the Rainbow, or some completely different date. Any idea guys? |
| The Real Wizard 23.01.2011 21:04 |
Very good observation ! So then they are very likely from the first night, unless the gap in Liar has been edited out. Unfortunately we still can't make a 100% conclusion here. |
| Queenman!! 24.01.2011 04:13 |
Sir GH wrote: Very good observation ! So then they are very likely from the first night, unless the gap in Liar has been edited out. Unfortunately we still can't make a 100% conclusion here. ====================== Yeah good spotting... where's GT? |
| Hangman_96 24.01.2011 06:21 |
Gary, we need your help! |
| GinjaNinja 14.02.2011 16:11 |
BUMP!! Can you help us Gary? |
| guild93 27.02.2011 03:46 |
According to GB's book, it was 31st March 1974 where the power cut occurred, and the 2nd night in 20th November that was filmed (not the first) and that November filmed show went on without equipment failures (though it also says this is the first time Queen are filmed live, ahem) So this begs the question , was it actually 31/3/1974 footage that was recently discovered at Trident or had GB's book got the 2 shows the wrong way around? GT? |
| GT 01.03.2011 02:36 |
This is all corrected in the new edition of the book. |
| guild93 07.03.2011 01:47 |
So would 2-inch tape make it suitable for Blu Ray release? (sorry if this has be asked). I assume since it was shown in cinema it would be a 'yes'? |
| Isle0fRed 07.03.2011 04:06 |
Someone wrote (forgive me) about mono and stero mixes eariler. I work and practe in film, it was easier to release video in mono as it was cheaper than stereo and quad. However Live at Rainbow is mono (whether it was relased in stereo or whatever in the cinemas) is because its from a vhs tape and vhs tapes cannot do stereo. They can do Duophonic which is fake stereo. In requards to overdubbs. Unless you have full raw bootlegs from both nights, you can never be 100% sure. Besides if QP were to release Rainbow (overdubbed or not) fairplair to them however, their were much better gigs in the SHA tour (i.e Final Japan 75). |
| Isle0fRed 07.03.2011 04:09 |
guild93 wrote: So would 2-inch tape make it suitable for Blu Ray release? (sorry if this has be asked). I assume since it was shown in cinema it would be a 'yes'? It would work better for DVD release 2" tape is too degraded. The 35 (or 32)mm would work better for BD release |
| MERQRY 23.03.2011 18:58 |
Isle0fRed wrote: Someone wrote (forgive me) about mono and stero mixes eariler. I work and practe in film, it was easier to release video in mono as it was cheaper than stereo and quad. However Live at Rainbow is mono (whether it was relased in stereo or whatever in the cinemas) is because its from a vhs tape and vhs tapes cannot do stereo. They can do Duophonic which is fake stereo. In requards to overdubbs. Unless you have full raw bootlegs from both nights, you can never be 100% sure. Besides if QP were to release Rainbow (overdubbed or not) fairplair to them however, their were much better gigs in the SHA tour (i.e Final Japan 75). ---------------- I'm not sure if "japan 75" has the quality (The concert Was GREAT but the recordings are from extranges angles) for a officialy release... Anyway I really hope they release the japan 75 gig whatever the quality is,cause it's a true jewel. |
| rhyeking 23.03.2011 19:54 |
I believe you're mistaken, VHS can certainly record and reproduce true linear stereo just as easily as audio cassettes do. |