| Azertyuiop 31.08.2004 18:59 |
Hello everyone! I haven't written here for a very long time. But today I want to write something about the french journalists kidnapped in Irak. I'm french and I'm really shocked of this. In France we're all waiting for news about Georges Malbrunot & Christian Chesnot. Now it remains less than 20 hours before the deadline set by kidnappers expired. Why kidnapping french journalists?? In France we are opposed to the US invasion of Irak till the begining!! We haven't soldiers in Irak!! What is the link between ban on Muslim headscarves in schools and the occupation in Irak?? I really hope that the journalists (and their driver) will be release very soon. Bye Sebastien |
| Bob The Shrek 31.08.2004 19:06 |
The French passed a law that Islamics didn't like - simple. You can't blame EVERYTHING on the invasion of Iraq |
| Albyboy 31.08.2004 19:09 |
Hi Sebastien, very very sad about this and, trust me, I am very close to French people in these days... You can go down in the messages of this forum and discover what I wrote some days ago about that... The message was headed "SAD THINGS" and I think you will find a lot of what you've inside reading those few lines... You are right, the whole thing is absolutely meaningless but I fear that the kidnappers are the first ones to understand not what they are actually doing... I don't want to think anything bad... I want to hope everything will work but inside me, don't know exactly why, I'm worried... The fate of Enzo Baldoni, the Italian Reporter, is still too fresh inside my mind for allowing me to be too optimistic... Anyway, everything sounds useless now, every single word I could say. I am close to you and to France... And, once again, if someone believes in something more than I do, please let your voice be heard up there... Ciao Sebastien Albyboy |
| iron eagle 31.08.2004 21:40 |
Terrorism did not start on September 11, 2001. It had been festering for many years. And the world had created a response to it that allowed it to succeed. The attack on the Israeli team at the Munich Olympics was in 1972. And the pattern had already begun. The three surviving terrorists were arrested and within two months released by the German government. Action like this became the rule, not the exception. Terrorists came to learn they could attack and often not face consequences. In 1985, terrorists attacked the Achille Lauro and murdered an American citizen who was in a wheelchair, Leon Klinghoffer. They marked him for murder solely because he was Jewish. Some of those terrorist were released and some of the remaining terrorists allowed to escape by the Italian government because of fear of reprisals. So terrorists learned they could intimidate the world community and too often the response, particularly in Europe, was "accommodation, appeasement and compromise." And worse the terrorists also learned that their cause would be taken more seriously, almost in direct proportion to the barbarity of the attack. Terrorist acts became a ticket to the international bargaining table. How else to explain Yasser Arafat winning the Nobel Peace Prize when he was supporting a terrorist plague in the Middle East that undermined any chance of peace? Before September 11, we were living with an unrealistic view of the world much like our observing Europe appease Hitler or trying to accommodate ourselves to peaceful co-existence with the Soviet Union through mutually assured destruction. |
| Holly2003 31.08.2004 22:07 |
Israel, Iraq, 9-11 are all unconnected. So much for you History 101 lessons. "Terrorists came to learn they could attack and often not face consequences" Especially those terrorists supported by the USA. And as long as the Israelis keep killing Palastinains with American-supplied weapons and stealing their land then you can expect anti-Israeli attacks to continue. You can only get rid of terrorism by addressing its causes. |
| iGSM 31.08.2004 22:10 |
Yes, I'm glad we don't have Neville Chamberlain around, hoo-boy was that ever a mistake sending him to Germany. |
| Holly2003 31.08.2004 22:12 |
"please take the time to finally realize what America is trying to rid the world of, and think carefully about joining that effort, because without the full support of all of us in the world, these attacks will continue at will, for it is all that these thugs know" America created Bin Laden and now you want to get rid of him so you need our help. How ironic. If the USA had not chosen to invade Iraq, thus creating a new "West Bank" or "South Armagh" there, then this problem wouldn't even exist. It wasn't Saddam who attacked the Twin Towers. |
| iGSM 31.08.2004 22:31 |
And our help too. |
| Holly2003 31.08.2004 22:53 |
Dr. Samuel Johnson's right about Olson Johnson being right. And I'm not giving up my ice cream parlor, that I built with these two hands, for nothing or nobody. Dagnabbit. |
| iron eagle 31.08.2004 22:57 |
PARIS, France (CNN) -- With French officials mounting a diplomatic offensive, the Arab League says it has won another 24-hour extension for two French journalists being held by a radical Islamic group in Iraq. The deadline for executing the two, which would have come Tuesday night in Baghdad, has now been pushed back to Wednesday night, an Arab League official said. The group holding the two -- the Islamic Army in Iraq -- is demanding that the French government repeal a law that bans from public schools -- among other religious items -- head scarves worn by Muslim girls. The French government has been feverishly attempting to win the freedom of the two journalists but has balked at repealing the ban, which was approved earlier this year and will go into effect this week. News of the deadline extension came on a day that another radical group said it had executed 12 Nepalese workers who it accused of cooperating with the American occupation of Iraq. In Baghdad, the Association of Muslim Scholars held a news conference to call for the release of the French hostages. "The Iraqi resistance is a right for every Iraqi Muslim. When we feel that our sons are crossing the line of what is acceptable we step in to show our sons the right path. Killing the two French hostages is not the right thing to do," said Mohammad Bashar al-Faidi, a spokesman for the scholars. "We have no direct contact with the group that holds the French men hostage so we are sending them an open letter through this press conference. This is the first time the Association of Muslim Scholars sends an open letter like this one, but the situation is very dangerous and the deadline is getting nearer. So we send this message to our sons of the lslamic Army." In Falluja, an Iraqi group, the Falluja Mujahidin Shura Council, also issued a call for the two to be released because of France's opposition to the war and the American occupation of Iraq. "Given France's humanitarian stance toward Iraq's issue and its occupation by opposing occupation and demanding an end to American presence in Iraq, and for other positions, we appeal to our brothers in faith and arms in the Islamic Army to release the French journalists in appreciation for these stands," said a statement from the group. In addition, a group of imams from the Paris region met Tuesday morning at the grand mosque in central Paris to hold a prayer service for the two journalists. |
| Saint Jiub 01.09.2004 00:34 |
I bet the law will be repealed and the Frenchmen spared ... Do two wrongs (beheading threat & scarf law) make a right???? |
| Azertyuiop 01.09.2004 19:36 |
No news today.. Now the deadline has expired. Hope tomorrow will be good. Bye |
| MetzgerR 01.09.2004 20:16 |
Maybe no news is good news...maybe for once, right will win out in the end. Everyone I know here at school - Christian and Muslim alike - is praying for the journalists...but, as you said, we'll all have to keep hoping, and wait for tomorrow. |
| iron eagle 01.09.2004 20:49 |
At the United Nations, Russia called for an emergency meeting of the Security Council, which scheduled consultations for later Wednesday on the school seizure and other issues. From inside the school, the militants sent out a list of demands and threatened that if police intervened, they would kill 50 children for every hostage-taker killed and 20 children for every hostage-taker injured, Kazbek Dzantiyev, head of the North Ossetia region’s Interior Ministry, was quoted as telling the ITAR-Tass news agency |
| jasen101 01.09.2004 22:21 |
France and Germany are the only two countries that have dignity in the world today. I hope that they release those journalists. They should exchange them for Larry King and Tucker Carlson. |
| Saint Jiub 01.09.2004 22:38 |
Yeah - That scarf law is really dignified. |
| joeyjojo 01.09.2004 22:38 |
Terrorism isn't something you can fight. The sooner people grasp that concept that sooner we can actually start fighting the CAUSES of terrorism. |
| Saint Jiub 01.09.2004 23:03 |
Did you know that Jasen's middle name is Dignity? |
| Holly2003 01.09.2004 23:18 |
Our "ally" Israel spying on the USA. link |
| dragonzflame 02.09.2004 06:13 |
The law that the French are wanting to make is disgusting. They're just reacting without any consideration for actual religious beliefs and not thinking of the Muslims as people; all they're seeing is the outward manifestation of the religion they've been taught to fear. Not, of course, that I think the Iraqis are right in doing what they've done and I hope the French journalists are ok. |
| AC 02.09.2004 08:26 |
Yes, it's really a shame that they had to kidnap those French journalists... I mean, there are so many Italian journalists in Iraq, couldn't they kidnap and kill other Italian journalist? As Italians, they have no dignity. Let's kill them! |
| iGSM 02.09.2004 08:45 |
Germany and France have dignity? How'd you come to that conclusion? |
| MetzgerR 02.09.2004 09:07 |
To be honest, I think the French needed to institute the head-scarf law in order to remain impartial to all religions, as large Christian Crosses, Jewish skullcaps, and Sikh turbans have already been banned. |
| Bob The Shrek 02.09.2004 09:17 |
Germany and France have dignity? How'd you come to that conclusion? Because they didn't invade Iraq - they were too busy counting their backhanders from Iraqi oil. |
| Azertyuiop 02.09.2004 10:35 |
Psyche Star wrote: "To be honest, I think the French needed to institute the head-scarf law in order to remain impartial to all religions, as large Christian Crosses, Jewish skullcaps, and Sikh turbans have already been banned" Why should any of those things be banned in the first place???Because France is a laic country |
| Albyboy 02.09.2004 11:13 |
Azertyuiop wrote: Because France is a laic countryA 57 minutes long storm of cheerings for this guy, please!!! Well said, Seb. :-) Albyboy |
| Azertyuiop 02.09.2004 12:08 |
Thank you albyboy ! |
| Saint Jiub 02.09.2004 18:09 |
France does not appear to care too much about individual liberty for their citizens. What else do they ban? I heard France has a ministry to keep the French language pure. Is this true? |
| Azertyuiop 03.09.2004 11:31 |
Bullwinkle wrote: France does not appear to care too much about individual liberty for their citizens. What else do they ban? I heard France has a ministry to keep the French language pure. Is this true?What do you know about France ? In france and in European Union we have certainly more liberty than anywhere else. We are the country of the "human rights declaration" in 1789. France is laic, and anyone can choose its religion. Our president doesn't have his hand on the bible or the coran or anything else. We are all FREE. For the french language, we just have a law who says that for example, in TV add, the foreing slogan must be translated somewhere on the screen (like 'Always Coca-cola' --> 'Toujours Coca-cola'); the aim of the law is just to protect a little the french language because today childreen don't speak very well. Seb, a free french man |
| Azertyuiop 03.09.2004 11:38 |
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| MetzgerR 03.09.2004 11:46 |
I remember someone mentioning the school hostage situation in Russia, and I was wondering if anyone knew anything more about that. Does anyone know how many people were being held hostage to begin with? The news report I read said that there were estimates from 300 to 1500, and that's a really big gap! |
| Saint Jiub 03.09.2004 11:58 |
"In france and in European Union we have certainly more liberty than anywhere else." ... and yet skullcaps, scarves, turbans and crosses are banned ... |
| Albyboy 03.09.2004 12:13 |
Bullwinkle wrote: "In france and in European Union we have certainly more liberty than anywhere else." ... and yet skullcaps, scarves, turbans and crosses are banned ...Why skullcaps, scarves, turbans and crosses should be symbols of individual freedom, in your opinion? Do you really think, and believe me, I'm just asking, that religions mean individual freedom? Many people, here in Europe, died for obtaining laic countries, and I don't think it's a good idea to go back to the stone age,.. French and Italian people may be in permanent desagreement for a thousand things, most of which are total bullshits, but the basic principles are the same because we fought towards the same goals... In my opinion there are a lot of things people should be aware of... Censorship... Ignorance... And you should consider that the first Muslims who had come in Europe years and years ago were sooooooo happy to throw away their scarves and turbans... They wanted to be Europeans because they chose to live in Europe and Europe became their new home...You can absolutely trust me about that !!! I don't know if my bad English allowed me to make the point clear... I beg your pardon... Try to understand me!!! :-) Albyboy |
| Saint Jiub 03.09.2004 12:29 |
The ability to follow a religion without government harassment attempting to assure conformity - is liberty. Personally, I am athiest, but I still think people should be able to follow their religion (without harming humankind). Although I believe that these laws banning wearing of religious symbols are wrong, I hope France shows some backbone and does not cave in to these terrorists. |
| Holly2003 03.09.2004 14:46 |
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the French ban only in schools? IF that's the case, it's very similar to arguments Americans have been having about whether teachers wearing crosses or other religious symbols is a violation of the separation of church and state. |
| Saint Jiub 03.09.2004 15:40 |
link Yes Haole, we all know that the USA has problems too ... or are you impling that if government sponsored discrimination is good enough for the USA, it must be good enough for France? |
| Holly2003 03.09.2004 16:03 |
Not at all. Just that it's fatuous to talk of America being "freer" than France when the issue of separation of church and state is one that the US is also grappling with. Also, you didn't mention anything about this being limited to schools so I wanted to clarify that. Just trying to bring a little subtlety to the discussion :p |