| Nathan H 29.11.2019 21:46 |
Did Freddie make more money than Brian or Roger on the Thank God It's Christmas? I'm wondering this because of singles royalties being split 50/50. Brian and Roger both got and still get writing credits for TGIC (Side A) whereas Freddie was the sole writer of Side B. So, if this is the case then presumably Brian and Roger both got 25% of earnings whereas Freddie got 50%! Despite Freddie not writing the actual main song. |
| dysan 30.11.2019 08:28 |
He would've got 66% of the 12" which ironically is also his PB for penetration. |
| Nathan H 30.11.2019 12:27 |
Wow! A lot more than I thought! It's a facinating subject isn't it... |
| brENsKi 30.11.2019 12:34 |
dysan wrote: He would've got 66% of the 12" which ironically is also his PB for penetration.Freddie would have also received 66% (writer's royalties) for the following 7" releases that had the same (TGIC / Man on the Prowl / Keep Passing) track-listing as the std 12" Brazil, Sth Africa, Italy, Portugal & Zimbabwe |
| Dim 01.12.2019 16:02 |
First The record companies will take back their money from album, singles, video eps, concerts etc then come the royalties. Many artist and bands including Queen take an advance before or during the release of their album. |
| JeroenG 01.12.2019 19:42 |
3 tracks, so total earnings is split in 3: TGIC: 33,3% (RT/BM) MOTP: 33,3% (FM) KPTOW: 33,3% (FM) So this will make: FM: 66,6% RT: 16,7% BM: 16,7% |
| ITSM 02.12.2019 21:33 |
What about Deacon? |
| Nathan H 02.12.2019 22:06 |
ITSM wrote: What about Deacon?He didn't get a writing credit on any of the songs. |
| Nathan H 02.12.2019 22:08 |
JeroenG wrote: 3 tracks, so total earnings is split in 3: TGIC: 33,3% (RT/BM) MOTP: 33,3% (FM) KPTOW: 33,3% (FM) So this will make: FM: 66,6% RT: 16,7% BM: 16,7%Thanks for that, really useful. You don't by any chance know how royalties work for albums? Presumably the same way. |
| emrabt 02.12.2019 22:52 |
All 4 of them would presumably also get a few pence performance royalties from the tracks. |
| dysan 03.12.2019 08:09 |
PPL vs PRS The age-old band battle. |
| ITSM 03.12.2019 23:00 |
@emrabt: I guess so. Deacon didn't write anything before their 3rd album (Misfire), and even that song wasn't a single. Not many people work for free, although he probably had a good time. But of course he made more money from A Night at the Opera, with his popular single (You're my best friend)., and also writing on rest of the albums, including huge hits. |
| fras444 04.12.2019 01:28 |
@ITSM; That is a good point... Did John effectively work for "free" during QI and QII and to a extent SHA? How would that all work? Up until the ANATO... I guess all four where still "working" part time to make ends meet and the well known events that led to the song "flick of the wrist" and "Dead on two legs".... Post ANATO, The handful of albums where both John and Roger didn't get a song released ( Roger went all through to the the 80's before getting a real hit... surely the $$$ from the infamous Boh Rhap b-side wasn't a bottomless pit..) Just having a song or two on a album, was that enough money to live on??? They say (I remember an article or video how the members were encouraging John to write songs and hits as that was the only way he would make the $$$) that writing the hits was where you got your money from... Both Freddie and Brian must have been pulling some cash from their songs in the 70's, being the main ones to be releasing singles during the 70's. How did John and Roger finance themselves, buy houses etc and not need a second job....? I guess the "all expenses" payed travel and food etc while on tour would help Roger and John from starving to death... but that was not 365 days of the year and you still need to make money to pay the bills, fund the wife's lifestyle, prevent the kids from slave labor, mortgage etc... There was the famous line where Roger said that "The Magic" tour, was the only tour where they made money.... So all the other tours were a loss or a break even??? How does the finances work in regards to getting paid when the tour was making a loss or breaking even? Did John and Roger charge themselves out to Queen for a tour along with hotels, food, airfares etc... John had the more songs on the tours post ANATO, did he get a cut or paid more than the "creator" of the band 'Roger" who was lucky to have "Mowtown rock and roll" and "I'm in love with my car" in the setlist and during his lean 70's years of his songs being played live?? Were John and Roger effectively session musicians within their "own" band? Did they charged themselves out per hour for each of Brian's and Freddie's song they played bass and drums on? Was that why Roger tried to play all instruments including bass on a small number of his songs. Was that his way of "keeping" the costs down?? Did they actually have a un-credited writing credit for coming up with bass and drum parts on Freddie's and Brian's songs where they got their money from. Surely all of those intricate bass lines were not all thought of by Brian and Freddie?... Surely John wrote some of those bass lines because he knew he could play them... Some would say that "that's a" song writing credit in itself!!! or by playing instruments on those songs, did they get a percentage from the hit/album sales... Along with playing Bass and Drums on Brian's and Freddie's songs and releases... Just getting a song or two on an album.. Was that enough to live off for John? Did John pull some cash with his "not so good" releases such as Spread your wings etc... and especially Roger before he had Radio Gaga and Magic he would have been looking quite broke?? |
| ITSM 04.12.2019 02:55 |
That wasn't what I meant, but thanks for your reply. I meant they must have earned some money being part of the band and playing on almost every track. John was also handling the finances for the group. But back to topic... I was wondering how much / how big John's cut were when he didn't had any writing credentials on any tracks on that single...? |
| ITSM 04.12.2019 03:01 |
PS! I'm not into how much money people earn, I'm just curious in this case. |
| miraclesteinway 04.12.2019 05:13 |
It's not just the writers who get the royalties, there is a performers royalty as well, so nobody would have been 'unpaid' by the release. It used to be the writer's royalty was 15% of the total sale, and the performer's royalty was 7% but what I can't tell you is if there are two writers does that mean 15% split two ways, and is it 7% split between each member, or if it's 15 and 7 percent each. Also if there's an advance then the royalties first of all go to paying the advance. I don't know what the exact percentages would be for a major band like Queen, it would depend on their contract, but I should imagine that the record companies would be more favourable to such a money-spinning act. |
| JeroenG 04.12.2019 09:12 |
Unless otherwise decided on a case by case basis, the standard for writing credits is equal divided. Example: A song > lyrics by B / music by C > 50% for B / 50% for C A song > lyrics by B & C / music by D > 25% for B / 25% for C / 50% for D A song > lyrics by B & C / music by C > 25% for B / 75% for C etc So let's take the AKOM album as an example (assuming that all lyrics and music are devided equally, we don't have specifications for that): To start with: Each track gets 1/9th, which is 11,11% One Vision > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,78% of total album A Kind Of Magic > RT > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album One Year Of Love > JD > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Pain Is So Close To Pleasure > FM/JD > each 50% of track > each 5,56% of total album Friends Will Be Friends > FM/JD > each 50% of track > each 5,56% of total album Who Wants To Live Forever > BM > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Gimme The Prize > BM > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Don't Lose You Head > RT > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Princes Of The Universe > FM > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album which makes FM: 2,78 + 5,56 + 5,56 + 11,11 = 25% BM: 2,78 + 11,11 + 11,11 = 25% RT: 2,78 + 11,11 + 11,11 = 25% JD: 2,78 + 11,11 + 5,56 + 5,56 = 25% Funny detail in this case: They all have exactly 25% of the writer credits of this album |
| JeroenG 04.12.2019 09:21 |
Another example: The Works album Radio Ga Ga > RT > 100% Tear It Up > BM > 100% It's A Hard Life > FM > 100% Man On The Prowl > FM > 100% Machines (Or Back To Humans) > BM/RT > each 50% I Want To Break Free > JD > 100% Keep Passing The Open Windows > FM > 100% Hammer To Fall > BM > 100% Is This The World We Created...? > FM/BM > each 50% and again 9 tracks, so 11,11% for each track FM: 11,11 + 11,11 + 11,11 + 5,56 = 39% BM: 11,11 + 5,56 + 11,11 + 5,56 = 33% RT: 11,11 + 5,56 = 17% JD: 11,11 = 11% Quite a difference compared to AKOM |
| JeroenG 04.12.2019 09:29 |
Or an early example: Sheer Heart Attack Brighton Rock > BM > 100% > 7,7% of total album Killer Queen > FM > 100% > 7,7% of total album Tenement Funster > RT > 100% > 7,7% of total album Flick Of The Wrist > FM > 100% > 7,7% of total album Lily Of The Valley > FM > 100% > 7,7% of total album Now I'm Here > BM > 100% > 7,7% of total album In The Lap Of The Gods> FM > 100% > 7,7% of total album Stone Cold Crazy > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% > each 1,9% of total album Dear Friends > BM > 100% > 7,7% of total album Misfire > JD > 100% > 7,7% of total album Bring Back That Leroy Brown > FM > 100% > 7,7% of total album She Makes Me (Stormtrooper In Stilettoes) > BM > 100% > 7,7% of total album In The Lap Of The Gods... Revisited > FM > 100% > 7,7% of total album In this case the album has 13 tracks, so each track is 1/13th = 7,7% FM: 7,7 + 7,7 + 7,7 + 7,7 + 1,9 + 7,7 + 7,7 = 48,1% BM: 7,7 + 7,7 + 1,9 + 7,7 + 7,7 = 32,7 % RT: 7,7 + 1,9 = 9,6% JD: 1,9 + 7,7 = 9,6% |
| JeroenG 04.12.2019 09:34 |
And to end with, a later example, and the reason why they decided to credit every track to 'Queen' on their later albums: Party > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,5% of total album Khashoggi's Ship > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,5% of total album The Miracle > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,5% of total album I Want It All > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,5% of total album The Invisible Man > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,5% of total album Breakthru > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,5% of total album Rain Must Fall > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,5% of total album Scandal > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,5% of total album My Baby Does Me > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,5% of total album Was It All Worth It > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,5% of total album 10 tracks, so each track is 10% FM: 10 x 2,5% = 25% BM: 10 x 2,5% = 25% RT: 10 x 2,5% = 25% JD: 10 x 2,5% = 25% Very simple and effective, and no reason for fighting over tracks and money anymore. |
| dysan 04.12.2019 13:09 |
'Did John effectively work for "free" during QI and QII and to a extent SHA?' I think they pretty much all did. |
| Holly2003 04.12.2019 13:25 |
I wonder does this help explain why Fred decided to release a solo album. His hit singles dried up a bit in the 1980s, so his royalties dropped. Mind you, sales of the 1981 Greatest Hits release likely more than made up for that. Still, he had expensive habits... |
| brENsKi 04.12.2019 16:35 |
Holly2003 wrote: I wonder does this help explain why Fred decided to release a solo album. His hit singles dried up a bit in the 1980s, so his royalties dropped. Mind you, sales of the 1981 Greatest Hits release likely more than made up for that. Still, he had expensive habits...I think it was a case of the band being a little fragmented around that time. Roger had had already released 2 solo LPs - Brian a mini Lp and had been producing others. I think that after 10+ yrs of recording together, they all wanted control over their own pet projects. |
| fras444 04.12.2019 21:54 |
@Dyson that's so true. With sales from QI and QII being not million dollar earners and SHA, their first true hit with Killer Queen, and with their troubles with management, fair to say that all four went rolling in the cash... @brENsKi; do you thing that had Roger and Brian but all of their solo efforts into the Queen project. Would we have a couple more "classic" albums from the 70s, with all four working on on those songs, or less 'filler' on the current albums.. Or were thos songs just simply the dregs/leftovers that were simply not good enough to be on a Queen album... |
| fras444 04.12.2019 21:57 |
We hear that Led Zep raked in huge cash from their American tours, Why was it that Queen, or from what Roger and Brian claim... Their tours before the 'Magic' tour they barely broke even... I thought they would have been top earners with the extensive touring all over the world during the breakthrough 70s period at least |
| dysan 05.12.2019 07:52 |
They've always said money from tours got pumped back into the shows for next time. At least, that's what they told the taxman. |
| Martin Packer 05.12.2019 09:16 |
If you had a limited company for touring then you could easily pull the "we plough surpluses into the next product" stunt. |
| Nathan H 11.12.2019 08:59 |
JeroenG wrote: Unless otherwise decided on a case by case basis, the standard for writing credits is equal divided. Example: A song > lyrics by B / music by C > 50% for B / 50% for C A song > lyrics by B & C / music by D > 25% for B / 25% for C / 50% for D A song > lyrics by B & C / music by C > 25% for B / 75% for C etc So let's take the AKOM album as an example (assuming that all lyrics and music are devided equally, we don't have specifications for that): To start with: Each track gets 1/9th, which is 11,11% One Vision > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,78% of total album A Kind Of Magic > RT > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album One Year Of Love > JD > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Pain Is So Close To Pleasure > FM/JD > each 50% of track > each 5,56% of total album Friends Will Be Friends > FM/JD > each 50% of track > each 5,56% of total album Who Wants To Live Forever > BM > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Gimme The Prize > BM > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Don't Lose You Head > RT > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Princes Of The Universe > FM > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album which makes FM: 2,78 + 5,56 + 5,56 + 11,11 = 25% BM: 2,78 + 11,11 + 11,11 = 25% RT: 2,78 + 11,11 + 11,11 = 25% JD: 2,78 + 11,11 + 5,56 + 5,56 = 25% Funny detail in this case: They all have exactly 25% of the writer credits of this albumWhat I find interesting about this is that John was going to be the only one to be recieving a writing credit on Pain Is So Close To Pleasure but he made sure Freddie one because of his help in arranging the song. If he hadn't then it would've been John recieving the most money from the album and Freddie recieving the less who would've thought that ten years prior. |
| Nathan H 14.12.2019 13:33 |
Using the method mentioned by JeroenG... Flash Gordon: John - 11.1% Brian - 38.9%* Freddie - 25% Roger - 19.4% Howard Blake - 5.6% Hot Space: John - 15.5% Brian - 29.1% Freddie - 33.6% Roger - 20% David Bowie - 1.8% Live Magic: John - 19.7% Brian - 33%* Freddie - 29.7% Roger - 16.3% David Bowie - 1.3% Greatest Hits II: John - 23.2% Brian - 26.2% Freddie - 23.2% Roger - 26.2% David Bowie - 1.2% Made In Heaven: John - 15.4% Brian - 21.8% Freddie - 34.6% Roger - 23.1% Elizabeth Lamers - 2.6% Frank Musker - 2.6% Queen Rocks: John - 6.9% Brian - 62.5% Freddie - 12.5% Roger - 18.1% Greatest Hits III: John - 12.9% Brian - 26.6% Freddie - 33.5% Roger - 15.9% David Bowie - 1.2% Elizabeth Lamers - 2% Mike Moran - 2.9% Frank Musker - 2% * I'm not quite sure whether these songs are credited solely to Brian, I've just assumed he gets all the money from them because he's the arranger but I'm probably wrong. |
| MisterCosmicc 14.12.2019 15:04 |
21st Century Music Fan wrote:I wouldn’t take Peter Freestone’s words so seriously about that. He said the same thing about Friends Will Be Friends, but Friends Will Be Friends is classic Freddie. They both worked on the tracks. It wasn’t one or the other, and Freddie wouldn’t take a credit unless he rightfully deserved it.JeroenG wrote: Unless otherwise decided on a case by case basis, the standard for writing credits is equal divided. Example: A song > lyrics by B / music by C > 50% for B / 50% for C A song > lyrics by B & C / music by D > 25% for B / 25% for C / 50% for D A song > lyrics by B & C / music by C > 25% for B / 75% for C etc So let's take the AKOM album as an example (assuming that all lyrics and music are devided equally, we don't have specifications for that): To start with: Each track gets 1/9th, which is 11,11% One Vision > FM/BM/RT/JD > each 25% of track > each 2,78% of total album A Kind Of Magic > RT > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album One Year Of Love > JD > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Pain Is So Close To Pleasure > FM/JD > each 50% of track > each 5,56% of total album Friends Will Be Friends > FM/JD > each 50% of track > each 5,56% of total album Who Wants To Live Forever > BM > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Gimme The Prize > BM > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Don't Lose You Head > RT > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album Princes Of The Universe > FM > 100% of track > 11,11% of total album which makes FM: 2,78 + 5,56 + 5,56 + 11,11 = 25% BM: 2,78 + 11,11 + 11,11 = 25% RT: 2,78 + 11,11 + 11,11 = 25% JD: 2,78 + 11,11 + 5,56 + 5,56 = 25% Funny detail in this case: They all have exactly 25% of the writer credits of this albumWhat I find interesting about this is that John was going to be the only one to be recieving a writing credit on Pain Is So Close To Pleasure but he made sure Freddie one because of his help in arranging the song. If he hadn't then it would've been John recieving the most money from the album and Freddie recieving the less who would've thought that ten years prior. |
| JeroenG 16.12.2019 08:29 |
21st Century Music Fan wrote:Greatest Hits III: John - 12.9% Brian - 26.6% Freddie - 33.5% Roger - 15.9% David Bowie - 1.2% Elizabeth Lamers - 2% Mike Moran - 2.9% Frank Musker - 2%Since 'Another One Bites The Dust' featuring Wyclef Jean/Pras/Free is also on this album, I always wondered how the writing credits for that track were devided. I know that officially only John was credited on releases for writing that version of the track, but it is not unusual with such kind of rap remakes that the rapper gets a lyricwritercredit for writing additional lyrics of his own rap part. (Same with samples being used in tracks BTW, often the writers of the used sample are co-credited on the new track that uses the sample) Assuming that each rapper wrote his own rap on that version it could mean a completely different % Another One Bites The Dust (Wyclef Jean Remix) : Music: John Deacon 50% Lyrics: John Deacon 12,5% Add. Lyrics: Wyclef Jean 12,5% Add. Lyrics: Pras 12,5% Add. Lyrics: Free 12,5% that is.... if the lyrics % are equally devided, I could imagine that Queen wanted to keep the main lyric % since they wrote the original song, which could led to for example JD 25% , WJ 8,3%, Pras 8,3% Free 8,3% or something else. Then there is also the part that sometimes a remixer can get writing credits for a track if it differs a lot from the original version. Usually this is based purely on an agreement with the original writer. For example I (2 friends and me) released a track a few years ago and we asked our producer if he could make a remix version as an additional track on the single. We agreed that we had to pay him a smaller amount of money for that job and in return he got a co-writercredit for the remix version of the track. In our example that ment: original version: ME 33%, FRIEND1 33%, FRIEND 33% remix: ME 25%, FRIEND1 25%, FRIEND 25%, PRODUCER 25% If the same happened to AOBTD Wyclef Jean remix in theory this could mean something like this: Music: 50% / Lyrics: 50% Music: JD 25% Music (remix): WJ 25% Lyrics (org) : JD 12,5% Lyrics (add rap): WJ 12,5% Lyrics (add rap): Pras 12,5% Lyrics (add rap): Free 12,5% As you see, it purely depends on what agreements were made, which we usually simply don't know. This could possibly be found via a search at STEMRA/MCPS/GEMA/etc. |