| Makka 18.02.2019 05:25 |
I've always wondered whether Queen's first album would of performed better at the time if it had of had better production. To me the mix is really quite muddy and dull and the drum sounds are horrible. I know this was recorded in 'down time' at the studio but having heard other albums from that era they seem a lot more álive' than Queen. Curious for others opinions on this. |
| mooghead 18.02.2019 07:48 |
Other albums from who? Established acts with more time to get the sound they want? |
| Ziggy_SD 18.02.2019 07:56 |
That album didn’t flop because of its production/sound engineering. Sonically, it’s actually a better sounding album than Queen II... and that was a hit. The first album flopped because no-one knew who Queen were and the single didn’t even chart. |
| Thistle 18.02.2019 08:12 |
I don't hear anything wrong with it, tbh. That said, I feel the original Japanese LP sounds superior to other issues of it (just my opinion) - you should grab yourself a copy of that, they're fairly commonplace. |
| Makka 18.02.2019 08:17 |
mooghead wrote: Other albums from who? Established acts with more time to get the sound they want?Just as an example, late era Beatles (yeah I know a bit before) , Kiss' first LP, Dark Side Of The Moon etc. I just thought if De Lane Lea were using it for promoting their studios shouldn't they have spent a little more time on the mix? It's not the bands fault as I guess they had no say in time restraints etc. |
| Makka 18.02.2019 08:18 |
Thistle wrote: I don't hear anything wrong with it, tbh. That said, I feel the original Japanese LP sounds superior to other issues of it (just my opinion) - you should grab yourself a copy of that, they're fairly commonplace.Thanks Thistle. I will see what I can find just to compare and hear if there's a difference. |
| dysan 18.02.2019 08:25 |
the first album by an unknown band sounds different to their later trademark sound shocker. |
| bucsateflon 18.02.2019 08:25 |
Queen I & II indeed suffer from insufficient production budget, especially because they were not recorded on 24track machines. And nothing can be done about it. |
| Holly2003 18.02.2019 08:42 |
Ziggy_SD wrote: That album didn’t flop because of its production/sound engineering. Sonically, it’s actually a better sounding album than Queen II...That was surprising to read. I've always considered Queen II as one of their better-sounding albums. Soundwise, it stands the test of time much better than their first album. |
| dysan 18.02.2019 08:50 |
It depends what the listener likes, and there will always be a chin stroker with a contradictory opinion dressed as fact. Not that I'm arguing of course, I can see the plus points and negatives of both records. |
| Martin Packer 18.02.2019 08:55 |
De Lane Lea weren't using it to PROMOTE their studio. They were using it to ACOUSTICALLY TEST their studio. |
| Ziggy_SD 18.02.2019 10:18 |
[quote]That was surprising to read. I've always considered Queen II as one of their better-sounding albums. Soundwise, it stands the test of time much better than their first album. [/quote] We should clarify the difference between general production and sound engineering. Queen II is a masterpiece in terms of songwriting and composition. But it suffers from gross overproduction. There is barely any space between the instruments. I remember first listening to this album on cassette and I remember it just sounded awful. Then I got the remaster and realised it wasn't just the cassette... Back to Queen I, while the songs aren't nearly as inventive as QII, the mix engineering is vastly superior. Songs like The Night Comes Down sound crystal clear. I suspect QII became a victim of it's own over-the-topness -- I really do believe they literally wore the tape out... because it sounds like it. |
| cmi 18.02.2019 10:28 |
The Night Comes Down is the only track from the album which sounds differently as it was recorded 1 year earlier at the De Lane Lea studios, while others were recorded at the Trident studios. I'm sure remix of both I & II albums will reveal that they were recorded very well. The original mixing process is the low point here. |
| dysan 18.02.2019 12:00 |
I can't believe how cross this thread has made me. |
| cmsdrums 18.02.2019 12:21 |
Awful drum sound on the debut - down to the engineers and producers taping up and muffling drum heads, and the band not being experienced enough, or having enough time, to argue that it should be otherwise. That 'cardboard box' drum sound was on a lot of stuff around late 60s to mid 70s, then - James Taylor, Billy Joel, ABBA etc..etc... |
| Holly2003 18.02.2019 12:23 |
All I can say is that when I grew up listening to Queen and Queen II on vinyl, the latter sounded great while the former sounded like it had been recorded in a garage. The latter sounded like I was in the room with the band, while the former sounded like I was in the next room with the door closed. Maybe the digital age has equalised them somewhat (equally "loud"?). I no longer have a record player and can't compare them any more. |
| mooghead 18.02.2019 12:28 |
Queen I is like a muddy pond and Queen II is a crystal clear stream... |
| bucsateflon 18.02.2019 13:03 |
A clean, complete remix for these two albums is impossible |
| cmi 18.02.2019 13:58 |
^ Why ? |
| Makka 18.02.2019 14:24 |
cmi wrote: ^ Why ?I guess some of the tracks would of been bounced down to a single track. But they are as they are now and should be left alone I guess anyway. |
| cmi 18.02.2019 14:52 |
If The Beatles have pre-bounced tracks in their vaults, why not Queen...? Also 16-tracks is not a small quantity to make a proper remix, even if some of them are bounced down. We already have Keep Yourself Alive (stems/instrumental), Liar (remix), Mad The Swine (remix), Seven Seas Of Rhye (stems/instrumental), so it's not a problem to remix these tracks properly nowadays. Of course maybe there could be a difficulty with 'The March Of The Black Queen' but it's not a BIG problem. |
| Negative Creep 18.02.2019 15:08 |
As someone mentioned earlier, the biggest problem is the mixes. The tracks just weren't mixed that well. Sonically there will be little wrong with what's on the multitracks, and the right mix engineer would make these tracks sound amazing. Except in QPL land, no quality mix engineer will ever get near Queens' back catalogue or vault because they have chosen to stick with their own bunch of amateurs. |
| dysan 18.02.2019 15:58 |
The mixes are absolutely fine. That's what was released, that's the product. Personal opinion or taste doesn't make an album bad per se. I enjoy it for things that others may see as faults. Same with Jazz and Hot Space. They are what they are take them or leave them. Of course that said, I'm the first to find remixes fascinating. C_Matt's HD Queen 2 was exceptionally interesting. |
| dudeofqueen 18.02.2019 16:42 |
CMI, re: >so it's not a problem to remix these tracks properly nowadays. Although you're right, we *could* end up with something that sounds like elephant guns going off and Freddie singing in the bath a-la Hammy '75. I'd prefer they left the bloody things alone now, given that they're so familiar, and concentrated on getting new projects right. |
| bucsateflon 18.02.2019 17:17 |
"A clean, complete remix for these two albums is impossible " "clean" and "complete" were not put in that sentence for nothing |
| dysan 18.02.2019 19:47 |
I would wager a fair chunk that if they did that and it ticked all the boxes you require, there would be a ton thread saying how bad it is. IE like everything Queen do these days sadly |
| aarongtz 18.02.2019 19:57 |
"Mad the Swine" snare sound is very different than the rest of the album and sounds good to me. "The Night Comes Down" drum sound, sounds very crystal clear but I think that specific sound goes well just with that specific song, I don't imagine something like "My Fairy King" with that drum sound. |
| dysan 18.02.2019 20:44 |
I was thinking of Night Comes Down.. in relation to this debate. It is certainly what could be called 'lo fi' but it really works with the song. |
| Makka 19.02.2019 01:03 |
aarongtz wrote: "Mad the Swine" snare sound is very different than the rest of the album and sounds good to me. "The Night Comes Down" drum sound, sounds very crystal clear but I think that specific sound goes well just with that specific song, I don't imagine something like "My Fairy King" with that drum sound.Yeah I agree that Mad The Swine has a very different sound to it than the Queen album. Weren't these recorded about the same time? |
| Ziggy_SD 19.02.2019 03:02 |
I think it was Brian that admitted they were forced to rethink their mixes when he noticed their records didn’t sound good in clubs. I’m gathering this may have been one of the reasons why they dropped Roy Thomas Baker in the late 70s. I know a lot of people criticise the Mack sound of the early 80s, but I for one thought his fresh take on their overall sound was key to their success in that decade. I’ve started to have a crack at remixing some of their earlier stuff and it absolutely benefits from modern mixing techniques. Now I’m Here, a track I always preferred live than the album cut, sounds completely different after I tinkered with it. |
| Makka 19.02.2019 04:01 |
Ziggy_SD wrote: I think it was Brian that admitted they were forced to rethink their mixes when he noticed their records didn’t sound good in clubs. I’m gathering this may have been one of the reasons why they dropped Roy Thomas Baker in the late 70s. I know a lot of people criticise the Mack sound of the early 80s, but I for one thought his fresh take on their overall sound was key to their success in that decade. I’ve started to have a crack at remixing some of their earlier stuff and it absolutely benefits from modern mixing techniques. Now I’m Here, a track I always preferred live than the album cut, sounds completely different after I tinkered with it.Feel free to share if you want some extra ears to hear it. |
| Ziggy_SD 19.02.2019 07:04 |
Bobemian, here you go! link Let me know your thoughts! |
| Rick 19.02.2019 11:04 |
Ziggy_SD wrote: I think it was Brian that admitted they were forced to rethink their mixes when he noticed their records didn’t sound good in clubs. I’m gathering this may have been one of the reasons why they dropped Roy Thomas Baker in the late 70s. I know a lot of people criticise the Mack sound of the early 80s, but I for one thought his fresh take on their overall sound was key to their success in that decade. I’ve started to have a crack at remixing some of their earlier stuff and it absolutely benefits from modern mixing techniques. Now I’m Here, a track I always preferred live than the album cut, sounds completely different after I tinkered with it.The Game is one of Queen's best sounding albums, IMHO. Mack did a great job on that one. |
| Makka 20.02.2019 04:28 |
Ziggy_SD wrote: Bobemian, here you go! link Let me know your thoughts!Good work. Do you remember the processes you used here? |
| Makka 20.02.2019 04:33 |
Rick wrote: The Game is one of Queen's best sounding albums, IMHO. Mack did a great job on that one.True, AOBTD is a speaker killer when cranked up. |
| Ziggy_SD 20.02.2019 05:01 |
Makka, the secret is adding some light distortion on the bass and drums. Works wonders on all their 70s stuff. |
| dysan 20.02.2019 07:53 |
But then by the same token, 50% of people would ask why have you distorted nice clear tracks :) |
| spiralstatic 20.02.2019 09:18 |
Ziggy_SD wrote: Bobemian, here you go! link Let me know your thoughts!I LOVE this! Thanks for sharing - it sounds SO much better. I'm not the biggest fan of Now I'm Here (I mean, I like it, but it isn't one of my favourite tracks ever or anything), but if THIS was how it sounded on the album I would be. So GREAT to hear the drums and bass. And the piano in there later on too. I'd absolutely never thought about the mixes on any Queen albums if I'm completely honest. But I do know how important mixing is. And if I hadn't known, you've just proved it to me here! I now want to hear how much better other tracks could sound too! [In fact as a teenager I thought I'd love to work recording music (I'd always played instruments, did a maths degree, but decided YEAHHH I do NOT want to be an accountant ta (& I'm terrible with money anyway) but I have zero self confidence. I volunteered at a recording studio for a bit a few years ago in my late teens and early 20's (which uncommonly in this age, still used tape) but though... they mainly wanted me to do their accounts, promote them online & answer phones (I was just a silly little girl in there with all the blokes I guess) and I was too shy to push myself into encouraging the blokes there to show me much stuff, I did learn you totally need complete self assurement when mixing music as you have to trust your own ears and I would have never had the confidence in my own ears to do anything like that, even if I'd had the talent, so hey - at least I learned that! They did say I could use any of the stuff there any time though, so I wrote myself a complete desk manual from what I learned and I did used to go there sometimes alone at 3am, have a go mixing stuff then ensure long before there was the slightest possibility of anyone else arriving that it was all set up just as it had been before, so nobody would have any clue I had ever been there, having a play, haha. Oh well. Me: the greatest disappointment to life there has ever been.] |
| dysan 20.02.2019 09:28 |
Mixing stuff professionally, while fun, is a poison chalice. Because the possibilities are infinite (especially in the digital age) it's a huge compromise between what YOU think and what the 4 band members think. You get the best performances you can (in itself quite a task) and wrestle with the hardware (if you're lucky you can use your own set up). If they trust you, fine, but then you have the label (who paid for it) pulling you further away from your vision. And then 40 years later you have the internet saying it sounds shit. |
| Ziggy_SD 20.02.2019 11:12 |
"But then by the same token, 50% of people would ask why have you distorted nice clear tracks :)" This is why we shouldn't reveal studio techniques! |
| Ziggy_SD 20.02.2019 11:14 |
"I LOVE this! Thanks for sharing - it sounds SO much better. I'm not the biggest fan of Now I'm Here (I mean, I like it, but it isn't one of my favourite tracks ever or anything), but if THIS was how it sounded on the album I would be. So GREAT to hear the drums and bass. And the piano in there later on too. I'd absolutely never thought about the mixes on any Queen albums if I'm completely honest. But I do know how important mixing is. And if I hadn't known, you've just proved it to me here! I now want to hear how much better other tracks could sound too!" Thanks so much for the feedback. I'm still experimenting with studio techniques and wanted to work with material that I'm fairly familiar with :) I am currently working on another track that had great potential but it's mixing let it down... Fat Bottomed Girls! |
| dysan 20.02.2019 11:32 |
Well make sure you pop it in the Fan Mix section. |