| Ziggy_SD 01.12.2018 14:32 |
Why did Freddie tend to belt/growl/squeeze out his vocals, instead of sing smoothly as he did on the records? Was this a stylistic choice or did he have poor live technique? I get that multiple shows take their toll on his vocal chords, which lead to his nodules, but I've yet to see any show after '76 where his voice sounds unstrained. It kinda got worse throughout his career, getting really bad during the Magic Tour. |
| emrabt 01.12.2018 14:44 |
He started doing the power shouting thing all the time around 79 as he liked how it sounded, there's an interview where he admits his range has lessened but the stuff he does with his voice is better. He sacrificed a lot of high range control for power. Presumably it was easier on tours. He also had vocal nodules which caused him problems, so the phrasing and timing of songs were changed to compensate. This was at its worse in 85 and 86, alcohol also didn't help, his voice was pretty damaged. |
| Seed_Of_Rhy 01.12.2018 15:32 |
emrabt wrote: He also had vocal nodules which caused him problems, so the phrasing and timing of songs were changed to compensate. This was at its worse in 85 and 86, alcohol also didn't help, his voice was pretty damaged.Wow, piece of info I've never heard or read about before! Can you post the link with additional info about this? Or you've heard this from somebody from Queen's/Fred's circle (i mean, bout timing and worsening of throat problems in 85-85)? |
| emrabt 01.12.2018 16:01 |
You can hear it in live recordings. Look at what they did to seven seas of rhye and in the lap of the gods revisited on the works and magic tours. |
| Gregsynth 01.12.2018 23:21 |
Freddie developed nodules in February of 1975 from the constant touring (several nights in a row, two shows in one day, etc). He also had an unhealthy singing technique where he would pull his chest voice higher to reach notes and would constantly force G4/A4s throughout the live sets. Combining those two actions caused the initial problem with the nodules. Freddie never got the nodules removed (out of fear that it would alter his singing voice) so he figured out ways to sing through and around the nodules. He dropped the use of his falsetto almost entirely (save for a few performances/moments) and started changing the vocal phrasings on songs. The common tactic he did was to change the vocal melodies to make them less demanding live. The new vocal melodies were often on lower thirds, fourths, fifths, or sometimes an octave down from the original notes/melodies. With Roger often singing the original melody, Freddie was able to (for the most part) effectively sing the songs live with the different vocal melodies. He also started cutting off sustains in an attempt to reduce the stress on his voice. The nodules also reduced his vocal stamina so his voice would often wear out faster than it originally would. Combine that with Freddie's love of partying, his singing style, and the wear and tear of touring - you'll get a voice that can often be hit/miss in the live environment. Around the News Of The World era, Freddie saw a vocal coach of sorts (the information is a bit vague on this - but Freddie mentioned seeing somebody about his voice in a German magazine). Freddie's live consistency improved after the Races Tour and he sounded far less strained live on the NOTW tour compared with any previous tour. His live delivery changed where he sang with a lighter tone and started to sustain certain notes (usually Ab4/A4) for longer periods of time. It's the first tour where Freddie didn't suddenly dip to a really poor level on some gigs (like the Opera Tour) and he really didn't have off nights in the sense where he was struggling throughout the set (numerous Opera Tour and Races Tour gigs have him in either rough shape or straining throughout the set). The Jazz/Live Killers Tour was a step backwards as the constant partying and touring wore his voice down quicker than any other tour before the Works Tour. They started the tour during the same month that the album was finished being made, so Freddie likely didn't have as much down time between the album and tour to rest his voice. While he was able to sound decent throughout the 1978 leg, he sounded more strained compared with the previous tour. Throughout the 1979 legs of the tour, his voice continued to deteriorate to the point where he could barely sing the songs (see the Japanese tour leg for that). Freddie likely learned some more tips between the end of the Jazz Tour and the Crazy Tour because by the time the latter tour started, his live voice was never better. He could sing the songs with more ease and freedom that he never once had before. There are only 5 recordings from the tour, but they all feature Freddie's overall best live singing. He could sing the songs with little to no strain and he still had his natural tone intact. He was able to nail consistent upper 4th octave notes left and right and it's the tour where he was able to belt out the C5 on a fairly consistent basis without much strain involved. He also developed a stronger vibrato that would be a characteristic of his later vocal work. For the Game Tour, Freddie remained in mostly good shape live, but the smoking that he started in 1980 would cause him some consistency issues that would remain with his live performances up until the end of Queen's touring days. Freddie wasn't really a heavy smoker (he barely inhaled the cigarettes) but it was enough to irritate his vocal nodules and cause issues with live consistency. He also changed his vocal delivery during this era to more of a macho/overdriven style that fit his new image. While he was able to sing well live and still nail the top notes, this new style of singing cause his voice to wear out more often than before. For the 1981 stuff, Freddie slightly changed the vocal style to make it less macho (probably for vocal consistency). Apart from a rough start in Japan that year, he was excellent live (the sporadic tour dates also helped out a lot) and he really shines on songs like Somebody To Love. The Hot Space Tour is a weird one because he starts off pretty badly (Stockholm, Drammen, Zurich, etc) but as the Euro tour progresses, his voice gets stronger and sounds amazing by the end of the leg. I put that down to Freddie not being in touring shape and his partying causing issues with stamina. After the Euro leg, Freddie's voice starts declining through the North American leg into Japan. The Hot Space Tour was a tour full of excess which explains the vocal issues (especially by the Japanese leg). By the time the Works Tour started, Freddie's voice lowered at least a tone. His voice had much more of a baritone edge to it. While his voice was very powerful, he had many issues with it throughout the tour. Combined with the partying, age, singing style, and the nodule problem, his voice rapidly declined throughout the tour. He sounds great for the first few gigs (Mainly Brussels and Dublin), but his tone then gets very rough/strained and he has many problems maintaining a consistent voice during the gigs. It's easily Freddie's worst vocal tour of the 80s and the most strained he'd ever sound live (apart from the Jazz Tour). For every gig where he sounds good, there's at least 3-4 where he has a bad night and he sounds awful. While Freddie tended to get into the belty/shouty voice throughout the earlier 80s tours at times, this tour had Freddie developing a "bark" quality to his voice that sounded very unpleasant on his weaker gigs. Songs that he normally would do well on during earlier tours suffered due to the vocal issues. If there is a positive for the tour, he brought back his falsetto and used it on a fairly regular basis (usually on the improv/Impromptu performances). Thankfully, he sounds really good on the Sun City recording that we have. Live Aid - sounds amazing. This is his natural voice without anything wearing it down. I wish he had that voice on the Works Tour (and to a lesser extent on the Magic Tour). The Magic Tour was a massive improvement compared to the previous tour. While there still were vocal issues on the tour (especially in early/mid June), Freddie was more consistent on the sets. While not at his live prime anymore, he was still able to effectively deliver the songs and the early Magic gigs are excellent vocally for Freddie. He still would bark out notes from time to time, but it wasn't nearly as bad as it was on the previous tour. To answer the questions in the original post, Freddie's differences between his live and studio voice comes down to many factors. In the studio, his voice was well-rested so he could go out all and have as many takes as he needed to sing all the most demanding vocal melodies. If he has trouble, he could simply redo the take or take a break. Live is where the real voice says hello! You only get one chance to go for it. Combining the nodules with unhealthy live habits (chest pulling, oversinging. etc), singing beyond one's natural boundaries, and engaging in off-stage bad habits (partying, substance use, smoking, etc) leads to the troubles that Freddie had live at times. Freddie also experimented with vocal distortion throughout his career as well (the more gritty voice that's use on songs like Gimme The Prize). Some of Freddie's growling in the live environment was intentional (using it for effect), but other times it can sounds really ragged due to touring (Races tour growling). (Continued) |
| Gregsynth 01.12.2018 23:23 |
For the final part, Freddie actually sounded less strained post-1976 live on certain tours. The NOTW tour and Crazy Tours sounded much less strained compared with the mid 70s tours. Since Freddie was up/down throughout his touring days, dividing stuff between "post" and "pre" can get very tricky. For example, he sounds much worse on the Jazz Tour compared with the Magic Tour, but he sounds better on the Crazy Tour compared with the Sheer Heart Attack Tour. There are vocal performance on the Works Tour (shockingly) that blow performances from 1975 away, yet there's way better Killer Queen performances on 70s tours compared with the 80s tours. Freddie is not an easy singer at all to put in a box! |
| andres_clip 02.12.2018 00:11 |
I think partying,drinks,drug and smoke fucked his voice real bad. Just to listen In my defence and all other post 86 songs. There you have it. |
| Chief Mouse 02.12.2018 01:18 |
Thanks for the thorough post, Greg! Here's what Freddie wrote to the Summer issue of FC magazine in 1981 regarding smoking. |
| Ziggy_SD 02.12.2018 03:36 |
@gregsynth, thanks for the amazing post! Very insightful. |
| flash00. 02.12.2018 04:45 |
I take it you have been watching that youtube video of the Soprano critiquing Freddie's voice from Live Aid to Somebody to Love 81 Montreal show? ha She sounds desperate to find fault..... link |
| Ziggy_SD 02.12.2018 05:51 |
flash00., yes I’ve seen those, but this video is the one I’m talking about: link |
| emrabt 02.12.2018 08:00 |
Brilliant post Greg. |
| Chopin1995 02.12.2018 10:40 |
emrabt wrote: Brilliant post Greg.Agreed! |
| Star* 02.12.2018 10:58 |
For such a hard working vocalist as Freddie it was imperative that his voice would suffer and the smoking certainly destroyed his pure singing voice but he still sounded better than many other vocalists and had the power and drive to be the greatest singer at "Live Aid back in 1985. King Mercury long may he reign. |
| IanR 02.12.2018 11:15 |
Indeed, great post Greg! |
| on my way up 02.12.2018 12:16 |
Fantastic post by Gregsynth! It gives a great overview of his different live periods. I personally enjoy all performances, good and bad. Always something surprising to hear and of course a musicality and timbre to kill for! |
| Sheldon 02.12.2018 13:19 |
Great thread! I found terms to describe my favorite Freddie live voice - Magic Tour. "Power shouting" and "barking" might be negative descriptions, but God did he sound powerful and unstoppable in 1986 and his huge voice filled the huge venues. |
| Star* 02.12.2018 15:55 |
No one quite like Freddie for filling stadiums and arenas with his powerful amazing voice, loved him to bits, the master. No one comes close to his amazing vocal technique. |
| Vocal harmony 02.12.2018 20:03 |
Mr Right wrote: For such a hard working vocalist as Freddie it was imperative that his voice would suffer. . . . .Are you saying that his voice had to be strained or knackered for him to sing properly? |
| Star* 02.12.2018 21:21 |
No i am saying his voice did suffer due to gruelling tours and been on stage every night for two hours took its toll, and when he began to smoke the voice got huskier. Go back to Queen2 March of the black queen, he had gorgeous falsetto piece's in that song that were pure and clear, later on in his career he hardly used falsetto as smoking had stopped him using his voice like he did in 1974 & 1975. |
| Biggus Dickus 03.12.2018 04:33 |
Mr Right wrote: No i am saying his voice did suffer due to gruelling tours and been on stage every night for two hours took its toll, and when he began to smoke the voice got huskier. Go back to Queen2 March of the black queen, he had gorgeous falsetto piece's in that song that were pure and clear, later on in his career he hardly used falsetto as smoking had stopped him using his voice like he did in 1974 & 1975.First of all, he only started smoking in 1980 so it had nothing to with the way he was singing in 1975. Secondly, he used falsetto on pretty much every gig during the last two tours and had no problems with it. |
| Star* 03.12.2018 07:55 |
If you cared to red Gregsynth post on here he states Freddie used falsetto less and less as the years went by. The smoking did affect Freddie's vocal range a great deal. He was though still an amazing vocalist unbeaten by anyone. |
| Dr Magus 03.12.2018 11:45 |
Freddie's falsetto was pretty good on the 85-86 improvs. |
| Star* 03.12.2018 13:39 |
Yes Freddie's falsetto was still great 85 & 86 but just listen back to 1981 "Soul Brother" it was outstanding, Many people over look what a brilliant range he had . |
| Biggus Dickus 03.12.2018 17:51 |
Mr Right wrote: If you cared to red Gregsynth post on here he states Freddie used falsetto less and less as the years went by. The smoking did affect Freddie's vocal range a great deal. He was though still an amazing vocalist unbeaten by anyone.Yes I read it. How did smoking affect his singing from 1975 to 1979 as he didn't smoke during that time? And how exactly smoking affected his falsetto vocal range during the 1984-1986 tours as he hit many of his highest live notes ever during that period? |
| Star* 03.12.2018 17:58 |
Can you actually read thicko? i said Freddies voice was brilliant in 1974 /1975 then by the 1980s his excessive smoking made his voice a little deeper and huskier, read gregsynths post and learn |
| Biggus Dickus 03.12.2018 18:24 |
"later on in his career he hardly used falsetto as smoking had stopped him using his voice like he did in 1974 & 1975." You said he hardly used his falsetto as smoking had affected his voice. Now who's the thicko? |
| Star* 03.12.2018 18:37 |
Can you actually read what i am saying? i am not going repeat myself, because your just taking the piss. jog on. |
| Biggus Dickus 03.12.2018 18:46 |
It's like trying to interact with an autistic child, just as hopeless. Good luck to you, you're going to need it. :) |
| Star* 03.12.2018 18:57 |
An autistic child has more sense than a thick fuck wit like you |
| Thistle 03.12.2018 19:23 |
Okay, I can't believe I'm doing this - but Gerrystarrightarsehole DIDN'T say Freddie smoked during the 70's. He said that smoking stopped him from using his voice the same way he had used it in the 70's. I don't see where the confusion lies. Anyway, he's still a prick who has no clue of what he's talking about. He states his opinions as fact. Only in his world is he right. |
| Star* 04.12.2018 10:19 |
Thistle You will obey to what i say because i am right and you are wrong. Get down on your knees and obey to a fellow Queen fan who has worshipped them longer than you. Hail Gerry the biggest Queen fan on the whole Queenzone site .............End of game................ |
| Vocal harmony 04.12.2018 16:08 |
WTF does obey to me mean? You're incapable of writing ( and probably understanding) and using basic English Yes we all miss spell or make "type o's" but you constantly type crap. You don't obey to someone. You obey them or their instructions. At least you ended your post with the line "game over" does that mean we can get the flags out and throw a party because you've gone? Or have you misused that line too? |
| Star* 04.12.2018 17:57 |
Vocal Harmony : You are more thick than i ever gave you credit for, that was a joke (above) and you fell for it yet again, what a stupid dumb girl you really are. You will never get rid of me bitch, i am here to stay. ha ha ha |
| Vocal harmony 05.12.2018 14:27 |
Oh I get it I'm so sorry. . . The joke was that you can't respond using basic English! |
| aristide1 05.12.2018 15:37 |
Clearly you are not familiar with this Trump brand of "humor". It's another way of showing who is the dominant male. |
| Star* 05.12.2018 17:50 |
VOCAL HARMONY Why should anyone on here take you seriously because you are just a stupid girl with no musical taste ! You cannot respond in basic english and you stalk me around this site constantly, now that is just sick, you need help you sick slapper. |
| Thistle 06.12.2018 12:12 |
Mr Right wrote: Thistle You are right and I am so wrong, both in my answers and mentally. I'd love to get down on my knees in front of you, but I accept that you don't want those kind of advances from me. As I have been a fellow Queen fan who has worshipped them longer than you, I must be really old and therefore a nonce for having such thoughts towards a much younger man. Hail Gerry, the biggest nob end in the world .............End of game................Wow. Just wow. |
| Star* 06.12.2018 14:02 |
Thick Thistle : no one gives a flying fuck if your spamming in my username we all know you are a loony who cannot continue a decent conversation and wreck peoples threads time and time again. I am not bother what you do on here because i know you are a joke on here, and a troll. So go ahead keep trolling saddo if it makes your one cell in your better feel better. i pity your family putting up with you. |
| Thistle 06.12.2018 14:32 |
What a tit. I actually told Biggus Dickus you were right (for once) in this thread, but if you think that's me trolling you, you ain't seen nothing yet. And if you think I'm a saddo and really don't care about what I say....best not replying, then! Jog on, little weirdo. |
| Vocal harmony 06.12.2018 16:08 |
Mr Right wrote: VOCAL HARMONY Why should anyone on here take me seriously because I am just a stupid fairy with no musical taste ! I cannot respond in basic English, as you pointed out to me. And I hang around and post crap on this site constantly, now that is just sick, I need help I'm a sick slapper.Gerryhappyright we are all aware of your problems. However the is really no need to keep pointing them out in these posts. |
| Vocal harmony 06.12.2018 16:13 |
Mr Right wrote: . . . . if it makes your one cell in your better feel better. . . . .Is this some kind of advanced use of the written English language, or just Gerryhappyright operating beyond his limited capabilities? |
| Star* 06.12.2018 20:15 |
Vocal Harmony All we hear is vocal harmony ranting gaga vocal harmony ranting ga ga vocal harmony what is new no one give a fuck about you ! |
| BETA215 06.12.2018 20:52 |
Oh, how creative... don't stop. It's so amazing... |
| bucsateflon 12.12.2018 08:05 |
flash00. wrote: I take it you have been watching that youtube video of the Soprano critiquing Freddie's voice from Live Aid to Somebody to Love 81 Montreal show? ha She sounds desperate to find fault..... linkShe didn't know that Queen live was full on rock show, with growling and shouting and more "bad" singing techniques. Like most people who get a false image about Freddie being something like Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston and the rest of the band was there to accompany him while he gives a nice recital. |
| bucsateflon 12.12.2018 08:05 |
flash00. wrote: I take it you have been watching that youtube video of the Soprano critiquing Freddie's voice from Live Aid to Somebody to Love 81 Montreal show? ha She sounds desperate to find fault..... linkShe didn't know that Queen live was full on rock show, with growling and shouting and more "bad" singing techniques. Like most people who get a false image about Freddie being something like Mariah Carey or Whitney Houston and the rest of the band was there to accompany him while he gives a nice recital. |
| bucsateflon 12.12.2018 08:06 |
indeed |
| Adam Is The Best! 20.01.2019 20:11 |
Because as a singer he actually wasn’t as good as Adam. He was good, but not THAT good. |
| Iron Butterfly 20.01.2019 20:30 |
Adam Is The Best! wrote: Because as a singer he actually wasn’t as good as Adam. He was good, but not THAT good.Trolls abound here lately. No Freddie wasn't wasn't that good...he was that great. Legendary even ;-). |
| Sweetandtenderhooligan 21.01.2019 20:38 |
I'm still pretty blown away at the falsetto he was able to use in Montreal |
| Sweetandtenderhooligan 21.01.2019 20:38 |
I'm still pretty blown away at the falsetto he was able to use in Montreal |
| QueenFan11 06.06.2019 17:41 |
Greg summed it up pretty well, but one thing i'd like to add is that personally I believe a lot of the time his dodging of notes live was less that he couldn't do it and more that he could, but wanted to play it safe and avoid risking cracking/straining. I think there were a lot of shows where he could've hit, say, the C5s in "Bohemian Rhapsody" or "We Are the Champions", but didn't because he didn't want to risk it. Even within the shows themselves, there's evidence that he could've hit a lot more notes if he chose. Like on a lot of Magic Tour shows, he has no trouble hitting most of the A4s in "Tie Your Mother Down" or "Tear It Up" but doesn't go for any in "Seven Seas of Rhye" or "We Will Rock You". Of course, there was several shows (*cough cough* most of the Japanese 1979 leg *cough cough*) where he wouldn't have been able to hit the highs either way. |
| Chief Mouse 06.06.2019 19:13 |
Nodules means that one's larynx is not closing properly due to bumps. It means your voice just doesn't work the way it's supposed to. Freddie knew how to sing those high notes. He would do the work and then wait and see how it turns out. In a live situation it's a gamble. And live he didn't risk it most of the time because he just didn't know how it would go. He could do it fine and he could do this - link . Nodules can also make voice sound hoarse which in turn makes you sing louder and push the voice which is not a good thing in long term. Japan 79 was a severe vocal fatigue, it must have been a depressing period for Freddie because he sounded nearly on the brink of losing his voice completely, it probably was a concern in his mind as well at the time. |