| fras444 05.05.2018 22:13 |
I understand John was never a prolifc writer when it came to songs but one thing I find surprising... When it comes to Roger and being the mainstay along with Brian and being a very accomplished musician (he was the only member who could do everything and do it well, bass, guitar, vocals and ofcource, drums. He all but was 'QUEEN' a 'one man band' when he all but did everything on a couple of his songs.. Vocals bass guitar and ofcource drums..). Although he wrote a lot more than John, he was with John on the songwriting hierarchy 1 or 2 songs per album.. More so in the 70s anyway. Why was Rogers contribution so limited to each album during the 70s? To then contribute more in the late 80s? Did he bring much to the table each session. I get the feeling from various comments over the years, he was eaither, banking up songs for his own albums or, just your typical confident guy who was good at everything, he did put in the hard work when needed but made it look easy or that he didn't really need to work hard at all and just cruised through his time with Queen (that interview where he said that Queen was just a job that pays the bills) Once again, like with my earlier post regarding John's complete songwriting history. How much songwriting ideas, Songs, demos did Roger bring to Queen especially during the 70s where he was only writing one-two per album. |
| Dr Magus 06.05.2018 12:56 |
Roger just wasn't as good at songwriting as Brian and Freddie. |
| thomasquinn 32989 06.05.2018 13:07 |
Then why are his solo-albums so much better, especially in terms of songwriting, than Freddie's and Brian's? Isn't it at least *plausible* that there was more of a Lennon/McCartney thing going on with Freddie and Brian each trying to dominate and pushing Harrison/Roger, respectively, to the background? |
| mike hunt 06.05.2018 14:44 |
Dr Magus wrote: Roger just wasn't as good at songwriting as Brian and Freddie.I agree! |
| mike hunt 06.05.2018 15:03 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Then why are his solo-albums so much better, especially in terms of songwriting, than Freddie's and Brian's? Isn't it at least *plausible* that there was more of a Lennon/McCartney thing going on with Freddie and Brian each trying to dominate and pushing Harrison/Roger, respectively, to the background?I have most of Rogers solo stuff....I have Hapiness Electric Fire, I checked out Fun on Earth, The Cross albums, I want to testify, and find all of them bland....I do love some of the songs, not the full albums like "you had to be there," and the new song Journy's End is excellent. In fact I prefer Barcelona and Back ToThe Light over solo Roger. The bottom line is Freddie and Brian were the better songwriters than Roger and John in the bands prime. Not sure how That's even debatable. Lennon/McCartney? Nah, Freddie was the one who helped develop Deacons songwriting and told him to write more songs. In the later years when Brian ran out of Ideas and Freddie was busy clubbing then got ill Roger stepped up and wrote some big hits with Ga Ga and Magic then wrote some of his best songs like Breakthru and These Are The Days, so it sort of even out in the end. I think Roger is underrated, and not sure why he never gets mentioned by Joe Public or fellow musicians. He was a good singer, better than Brian. Solid drummer and Quality songwriter. |
| Sebastian 06.05.2018 18:57 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Then why are his solo-albums so much better, especially in terms of songwriting, than Freddie's and Brian's?Possibly, because he wrote them at his peak, while Brian and especially Frederick did theirs at their valley ('Barcelona' being a duet album, not a solo album, and having a clasically-trained pianist and composer lending a hand on all of the tracks). A seventies solo album by Roger would've probably had throwaway material such as 'More of That Jazz' and 'Loser in the End', perhaps with a gem or two like 'Drowse' or 'Tenement Funster', but it'd be by and large sub-par in my opinion. Conversely, a solo album by Frederick in the mid-70's rather than mid-80's would've probably been far more orchestral, classical-influenced, with massive vocal sections, formal and harmonic craftsmanship, etc., instead of the lacklustre effort 'Mr Bad Guy' wound up being. Also, his session musicians would've probably been the likes of Rick Wakeman, Jeff Beck, Paul Buckmaster and Phil Collins rather than Curt Cress, Stephan Wissnet and the late Paul Vincent-Gunia. |
| mike hunt 06.05.2018 19:35 |
Especially that the best songs he could come up with on Queen 2 is loser and Jazz Fun It and More Of That Jazz.....that's why he's not more famous. Freddie was allowed a crap Album like Hot Space and Bad Guy when you could put on his classic era stuff, same with Brian....Roger even at his peak could never match those two at their peak.....I will say this, since Freddie's death, say post 1997, Roger has out classed Brian as a writer and singer. Electric Fire and Another world were both average, but I'm tempted to give Roger the edge. I like only 3 songs on Cosmo rocks and Roger wrote 2 out of the 3...Small and Say It's Not True. Brian had 1 decent tune with Glitter. Since that album only Roger has come up with a few good ones like Journy's End. Brian hasn't done anything In ages. Roger, while never had a classic era of songwriting like Brian has aged better. |
| fras444 06.05.2018 20:44 |
Does anyone know, maybe you Sebastian. Did Roger bring much to the sessions or should I also ask. Did Queen bring a whole lot of ideas and songs to each session jam out a few to then whittle them down to say, one or two from Roger and John and Freddie/Brian to bulk up the album. Or were they a band that had selected a song or two before session times and basically had the whole song ready for the others to play their part? |
| Sebastian 06.05.2018 22:39 |
As far as I know it was a bit of both and it depended on the individual album. Roughly, and keeping in mind I wasn't there and all I can do is reflect on the information given by people who were there but whose memories, understandably, are far from eidetic: - Debut Album: 'Night Comes Down' was basically penned in the studio, at least partly... 'My Fairy King' was started off beforehand but further developed at Trident. Everything else came from their live repertoire, perhaps adding a few ideas here and there but that was it. - Queen II: A lot of it had already been written by the time they'd been recording its predecessor, but they saved the material for when they had more access to studio time and equipment as 'proper' clients rather than during graveyard shifts. The manuscript from 'Loser in the End' was found in a 1971 notebook Rog took to college, so it seems the song was a bit old by then. - Heart: They had a couple of weeks to write the songs before heading to the studios in Wales - being the first album partly recorded outside England. Besides 'Stone Cold Crazy', which Frederick had written before Queen even existed, and 'Brighton Rock', which had been a 'Queen II' reject, the songs they seemed to have had ready beforehand were Wrist, Lap 2 (as it was called then), Banana Blues (Misfire) and You're Young & You're Crazy (Tenement Funster). Everything else may have been at least partly written when the sessions had already begun. - Opera & Races: They rehearsed in Surrey and that was the time for them to submit ideas. Some would be rejected, others would be postponed (e.g. 'We Are the Champions'), others would be then further developed. - News: It was more spontaneous so I wouldn't be surprised if they had both approaches. As far as it's been documented, that's exactly what happened to Roger's tracks: one was a reject from the past, the other was a germinal idea further developed in the studio. - Jazz: No idea, really. - The Game & Flash: A lot would be written in the studio. They'd be making it up as they went along. - Hot Space - The Works - A Kind of Magic: 50/50 again, now with each band member having the chance to work on their own with sequencers, samplers, drum computers and so on. - Miracle - Innuendo - 1991 Demos: Mostly written in the studio when they were working. There are exceptions of course... |