| andres_clip 10.04.2018 18:05 |
Why did Queen and Roy part? |
| Jimmy Dean 11.04.2018 02:19 |
the question is why did they hire him back in 78. he shaped their sound well enough by 75 that they didn't need him going forward. ANATO and NOTW were fantastic sounding albums. hiring him back didn't help their sound in 78. i really hate the drum sound on Jazz. |
| Jimmy Dean 11.04.2018 02:34 |
i'm going to speculate a little... The Cars debut was released June 1978. They may have liked the sound. Jazz recording sessions started July 1978. |
| Sebastian 11.04.2018 02:58 |
He left Britain and moved to America. By 1978, things were so tense that they could use a ref. |
| Dim 11.04.2018 05:17 |
I would like to add that after the success of their previous albums, along with the music scene was changing so they needed to show that their new album (jazz) would have new sounds with something from their past. Roy was the bite in terms of marketing the album, Jazz the forthcoming album produced by Roy since Anato. |
| ANAGRAMER 11.04.2018 05:38 |
RTB had moved to the USA by1978 That year, he produced The Cars debut album I think it went gold in the USA and was a huge critical success as well as three hit singles Maybe Q wanted a bit of that It's debatable if Jazz benefited from RTBs production which was more 'The Cars' than Queen The vocals were superb tho imho |
| Dim 11.04.2018 09:46 |
If you adjust the EQ, increase little the bass , sub, and the mids, decrease 6k to minus and increase little bit 16khz all other flat, then sounds improve very much. Also It works great for QII, The Miracle and Innuendo. |
| Dim 11.04.2018 09:47 |
If you adjust the EQ, increase little the bass , sub, and the mids, decrease 6k little and increase more 16khz, leave all other flat, then the sounds improve very much. Also It works great for QII, The Miracle and Innuendo. |
| Vocal harmony 11.04.2018 13:28 |
I think Sebastian's post is a likely reason, but why RTB and not someone who would bring something new. Way back in the 80's I was discussing this subject with a some who told me the reason was contractual. They apparently signed a deal with Baker to produce either three or two albums in 74 or 75, I don't remember the exact years or numbers. I think it may have been in 75 as I believe John Read was involved. By ADATR they felt they didn't need him so went ahead without him, but by Jazz for the reasons stated by Sebastian and the legal obligation of the deal RTB was back. |
| Star* 11.04.2018 16:25 |
With or without RTB A day at the races and News of the world were great albums and boasted some amazing singles, "We are the champions" " Spread your wings" " Somebody to love" "Tie your mother down" i have no complaints there! |
| mooghead 11.04.2018 18:24 |
Brilliant question. Shocked that the answer hasn't been explained by the band in countless interviews or not even asked here before a million times. |
| andres_clip 12.04.2018 20:30 |
I've now read that he was part owner of Trident. That explains alot. |
| *goodco* 12.04.2018 22:12 |
He did the first four 'Cars' albums. And he worked wonders on Journey's 'Infinity' and 'Evolutions' albums at the time link Didn't know of the 'strife' regarding Queen. Not to be nosy, but I'd like to know more.....as well as WTW were they thinking with the drum mix..... |
| dysan 13.04.2018 06:44 |
I don't mind the so-called problems with the sound of the record. It is what it is. I imagine it was more down to using a new studio? A claim many artists use on perceived sonic dodginess. Perhaps a Jazz 2018 mix might happen like the recent Bowie Lodger 2017 remix by Visconti? |
| andres_clip 13.04.2018 08:05 |
But he did give Queen a nice touch when he was on board I must say. |
| cmsdrums 13.04.2018 08:50 |
andres_clip wrote: I've now read that he was part owner of Trident. That explains alot.Jazz wasn't recorded at Trident so that definitely wouldn't be a reason to hire him again for that album! |
| andres_clip 13.04.2018 20:17 |
I guess like I said,he brought something to the tablet. |
| Sebastian 14.04.2018 04:41 |
andres_clip wrote: I've now read that he was part owner of Trident. That explains alot.Technically, he was part-owner of Neptune Productions, rather than Trident per se. cmsdrums wrote: Jazz wasn't recorded at Trident so that definitely wouldn't be a reason to hire him again for that album!The severance took place in January or February 1978. One of the clauses may have been doing one more album with someone from Neptune Productions. It's just a possibility... but the timeline would make sense. andres_clip wrote: I guess like I said,he brought something to the tablet.But how much of that was Roy and how much of that was Mike? Keep in mind that: - The debut album was chiefly produced by John Anthony rather than Roy. - Two and a half songs on 'Queen II' were Robin + Mike and had no Roy involvement. - 'Races' and 'News' have Mike but not Roy, 'Jazz' has Roy but not Mike - and what a difference in sound! |
| dysan 14.04.2018 08:41 |
'The severance took place in January or February 1978. One of the clauses may have been doing one more album with someone from Neptune Productions. It's just a possibility... but the timeline would make sense.' This would also be my suggestion. |
| Star* 14.04.2018 14:41 |
i am a fan of Roy Thomas Baker because he brought the very best out of Queen. For me Mack was not as good as RTB. |
| dysan 14.04.2018 16:06 |
Mack was ok. It was a different sound, a different era. |
| Sebastian 14.04.2018 16:43 |
happystar wrote: i am a fan of Roy Thomas Baker because he brought the very best out of Queen. For me Mack was not as good as RTB.Again, a lot of that could be Mike rather than Roy. |
| andres_clip 14.04.2018 16:57 |
We can all agree that who ever helped Queen in their music was talented, except Paul Prenter. |
| mooghead 14.04.2018 20:28 |
"For me Mack was not as good as RTB." I hate shit like this. Imagine Mack producing ANATO or RTB producing The Game. They were the best at that point in time who did what they did. Utterly crucial to making Queen what they were and became. Can you imagine how horrific it would all sound if Rick fucking Rubin had a shot? |
| dysan 15.04.2018 08:55 |
A couple of other threads reminded me to look in my Ian Hunter folder for the first time in years. I realised that RTB produced IH's 1977 album - which isn't sonically a million miles from Jazz. We know Queen were IH fans. Maybe that added to the reason to have him. Certainly having a producer they were comfortable with who was good a US FM rock. Nailing their popularity in America was surely on their minds after NOTW. |
| dysan 15.04.2018 08:57 |
Interesting too how IH's albums around that time featured members of Bowie's current band. I'd forgotten how Earl Slick replaced Ronson TWICE. |
| Vocal harmony 15.04.2018 13:04 |
Happystar your comment regarding Mack is interesting as in the past you've said that Hot Space is one of your favourite Queen albums. |
| thomasquinn 32989 15.04.2018 13:11 |
Just imagine Rudy Van Gelder producing a Queen-album. Now that would be something different! |
| Sebastian 15.04.2018 15:08 |
Sebastian wrote: The severance took place in January or February 1978. One of the clauses may have been doing one more album with someone from Neptune Productions. It's just a possibility... but the timeline would make sense.My apologies - this was wrong. Apparently it was the severance with John Reid that took place in early '78 - they'd officially left Trident in '77. So I was wrong about that. However, John Reid was also Roy's manager. They were all connected like in a 'Saw' film. |
| Star* 15.04.2018 15:51 |
VH : Yeah "Hot Space" is a good album and one of my favourites but the production of it would have been amazing if RTB had worked on it. |
| dysan 15.04.2018 16:36 |
Can this be? I'm trying to think of one of my favourite albums but one that I don't rate the production. Good Tunes IMO + Good Sound IMO = good album IMO Perhaps that's a different thread. Also, could HS have been more gay?? |
| Star* 17.04.2018 12:25 |
Dysan: Many straight artists perform disco music so what is your point over Hot Space been gay? Sexuality has nothing to do with the music, unless you cant handle that because you are narrow minded? Hot Space was a refreshing change for Queen and an era that needed to happen. Freddie was spot on wanting to explore other avenues with the band, and that is why he always said "Queen offers a wider span of music than most other bands" |
| dysan 17.04.2018 14:17 |
Hot Space is a 'Gay' album. No argument. Sexuality of the makers doesn't come into it. Bicycle Race is a 'Gay' song. Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon is a 'Gay' song. Regular readers will know HS is one of my favorites so don't get pious and preachy pal. |
| dudeofqueen 17.04.2018 14:38 |
dysan, re: your post. By "gay" to you mean the literal definition as happy or cheerful or uplifting? If you're referring to the albums or songs as representative of a sexuality or a lifestyle, then you're clearly either "baiting" or mis-informed and should actually listen to them before re-assessing your opinion. |
| dysan 17.04.2018 15:07 |
I assume you're 12? |
| dudeofqueen 17.04.2018 15:46 |
dysan, re: >I assume you're 12? Assumption being your mother then...... |
| Vocal harmony 17.04.2018 17:47 |
happystar, funny isn't it that you single dysan out for being, as you put it, narrow minded which he isn't yet almost every time you post a comment about Lambert You use any number of disparaging gay remarks when describing him. Can we conclude from this that in your narrow minded world if you are gay you have the freedom to say what ever you want about who ever you want, yet no one can use the term gay when talking about something you like. I agree with dysan the songs he listed are gay, as are some of the songs on Hot Space. Further more the production on some of Hot Space reflects the Euro gay club scene Freddie was influenced by at the time. Is this a narrow minded point of view, I font think so but I'm sure you'll disagree |
| mooghead 17.04.2018 18:28 |
Body Language is the gayest song ever written. It's full title should have been 'Body Language (put your willy up my bum bum)' |
| Daniel Nester 18.04.2018 02:42 |
Wow. |
| Daniel Nester 18.04.2018 02:42 |
Wow. |
| The Real Wizard 18.04.2018 04:34 |
Sebastian wrote: they'd officially left Trident in '77.Yep - and literally the next day they started setting up their publishing companies, and financial freedom was theirs. |
| Star* 18.04.2018 16:48 |
Vocal Harmony : Sorry but you are wrong again, Hot Space is NOT a gay album, how can it be when Brian wrote "Put out the fire" and "Dancer" ??? Roger wrote : Calling all girls, John wrote : Backchat and they are straight as they come men. Freddies Body Language was probably the only gay influenced track on the album. Furthermore i have never called Adam Lambert about his sexuality, i have however called him a freak but that is not aimed at sexuality. |
| Sebastian 18.04.2018 20:22 |
Albums cannot be gay or straight... they can't be bi either - albums do not have sex. |
| Golden Salmon 18.04.2018 20:31 |
Discs have a hole. Therefore... |
| dysan 19.04.2018 06:43 |
So would Hot Space couldn't be called 'Black' either because records don't have a race do they? |
| Star* 19.04.2018 06:45 |
Sebastian : That was "Vocal Harmony" who stated that Hot Space was a gay album, and as usual she has to be right well she is very wrong and needs to be a little less narrow minded. |
| dysan 19.04.2018 06:52 |
Erm no it was me. An album can be whatever a listener says it is. A couple of us agree, others do not. I'm happy. Good thread. |
| Togg 19.04.2018 08:05 |
"Could Hot Space be more Gay" What does that even mean? one track that is slightly infuenced by the 'night club' scene... What about Fairy Fellows Master Stroke? is that gay as well? Absolute rubbish, Hot Space has some 'dance' orientated tracks but last time I checked disco dancing was only for the gay community... |
| dudeofqueen 19.04.2018 08:18 |
dysan, re: >Erm no it was me. An album can be whatever a listener says it is. A >couple of us agree, others do not. I'm happy. > >Good thread. Think mummy's calling you up to bed now - run along now like a good boy. You're an *UTTER* bell-end. |
| Vocal harmony 19.04.2018 13:51 |
happystar as usual you've read something then re interpreted what was said then misquoted to form an urgument. Once again. , I said I agreed with dysan' list and I thought that "some" not all but "some of Hot Space" was influenced by Freddie's introduction to the gay club scene. Particularly the production on some songs and the lyrical content of Body Language. Is that saying the album is gay. . . No. |
| Star* 19.04.2018 18:54 |
VH You are talking utter crap once again, with the exception of Body Language what other songs on Hot Space have a gay production on them then? Brian Roger and John wrote there own songs and i am sure the gay theme never came into there heads at that time. |
| Vocal harmony 20.04.2018 14:20 |
happystar your attitude and approach to anything you disagree with or don't understand is to throw an insult at someone. "Songs in the funk black category" I think you'll find was Freddie's description of some of the Hot Space songs. The funk black disco type thing was huge in the early 80's in a lot of gay clubs, hence the influence on Freddie and the production of the album. Disregard the lyrics or the person who originally brought the basic song idea into the studio, what came out on some tracks was the influence of the scene Freddie was into. So instead of belittling, why don't you try looking a little deeper into understanding. It's a simple enough thing to understand, you always go on about how brilliant Freddie was and how his influence led the band, but when you are presented with an example of how something that influenced Freddie was passed on to the band and steered part of an album in a certain way you disagree. |
| andres_clip 21.04.2018 00:48 |
So many trolls. This thread was about RTB |
| Star* 21.04.2018 07:32 |
VH: Through all the time i read reviews on Hot Space back in 1982 not once was the word "gay" used to describe this underrated album. Not even Brian, Roger or john stated that the album may have been influenced by the gay scene, and to be honest just because the gay community embraced disco music does not have to mean that Hot Space was such. Body Language with its leather man Freddie clone look was gay i give you that, but the rest of Hot Space was just pieces of music that Queen were experimenting with. How people compute music in there heads down to sexuality is pretty strange. |
| dysan 21.04.2018 08:53 |
I think one thing that is being missed here is that Gay isn't being used as a bad thing. When Bowie covered the Stones' Let's Spend The Night Together' on Aladdin Sane it was said he had re-imagined its sexuality. Gender is not without precedence in music criticism. Wiki: Rolling Stone's contemporary review found the Bowie version "campy, butch, brittle and unsatisfying", suggesting that "one of the most ostensibly heterosexual calls in rock is made into a bi-anthem" |
| Vocal harmony 21.04.2018 17:48 |
dysan, absolutely, but somebody doesn't seem to understand what may or Neymar not influence certain things in music,more any form of art. happystar, you're right Brian, Roger and John didn't say the album was influenced by the gay scene, but I didn't either. Yet again just for you I said that what Freddie had heard on the gay club scene influenced "the sound/production of SOME of the song NOT the whole album and NOT the lyrics written by Brian, Roger and John. Since you mentioned Brian, Roger and John having not said anything about a gay influence, maybe you can remember that although Freddie was gay it was hardly ever if at all talked about by the band. As for your last comment, sexuality is one of if not the biggest influence on popular music. |
| dysan 21.04.2018 17:54 |
And cats. Don't forget cats. |
| mike hunt 21.04.2018 20:20 |
And once again the Troll Vocal Harmony and Happystar ruin a thread. |
| Star* 21.04.2018 21:12 |
Mike Hunt i am not a troll, but as we all know Vocal Harmony who is a bitch of a woman likes to cause trouble with her catty remarks. She is obviously after a row so she can get me banned but shes wasting her time cos i am not rising to her childish behaviour, |
| mike hunt 21.04.2018 21:24 |
Not sure why you would get banned....she's the one always causing problems from my view. RTB and Queen and Jazz always struck me as odd. They went their separate ways for a reason. Queen moved on, and the production on Races and NOTW was very good without him. Why they reunited on Jazz is beyond me. I do like the album, but the production was off. Not sure what they were shooting for sound wise. Roger played good on that album, sadly the sound was thin. |
| Vocal harmony 21.04.2018 23:46 |
A number of views earlier in this thread explain possible reasons for RTB to have been brought back for one last album. As for me being a troll, again read a little further back and you'll see that the Hot Space subject was started by someone else ( not me, replied too be another person which I then replied too) . If replying to a post makes me a troll, then ok but on those grounds I'm not the only one. By the way how did you work out I'm female. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 22.04.2018 00:29 |
I asked that to Roger. They didnt like it the sound of Jazz and Roy was in USA with other bands. No more problems. |
| Star* 22.04.2018 10:38 |
Mike Hunt : Yeah when you mentioned the sound been thin on Jazz that was also the case for "Live Killers" and Roger hated that as well. |
| mike hunt 22.04.2018 19:40 |
Should I sound harsh here? Roger has a right to hate something, that's all good, but his 2 songs on Jazz were among the weakest on the album, so maybe that's also why he hated the album? His weak ass songs! Another reason why Jazz was disliked by The band was that they set the bar so high on the first 6 records, so Jazz wasn't up to those standards. If Jazz came out in 1989 after albums like Hot Space, The Works, A Kind Of Magic and even The Miracle The album would be considered a return to form. Jazz is easily better than every album they did after The Game. Except for Innuendo, which I love. |
| mooghead 22.04.2018 20:10 |
He hated the album because of his own songs? Are you mental? The band heard his contributions, decided to record them then put them on the album. Jazz is ok I suppose (the first one with filler, In Only Seven Days being the prime example) but a complete remix (not remaster) would make it pretty brilliant. It was rushed as Queen were a touring/live band at the time. They have themselves to blame for the horrendous sound. |
| dysan 23.04.2018 06:17 |
I've still never had actual examples of the 'bad' sound on Jazz. It's fine by me. Things like the Mustapha mono verses are an artistic decision. The only muddy track IMO is Dreamers Ball but that guitar orchestration usually did end up clogging up the speakers - especially on a wholes song. Love the LK version BTW. RE RT's tracks. Yes Fun It is bad - MOTJ is great IMO. |