| Dark-El 06.02.2017 09:32 |
link |
| dysan 06.02.2017 11:37 |
I think Chief Mouse has his work cut out with that one. |
| brians wig 06.02.2017 11:44 |
It almost sucks to me of whoever uploaded it has purposefully degraded the first section for some reason. That time counter has certainly been added on at a later point. |
| The Real Wizard 06.02.2017 22:42 |
brians wig wrote: It almost sucks to me of whoever uploaded it has purposefully degraded the first section for some reason. That time counter has certainly been added on at a later point.Correct. That is not an old school analog counter. And people wonder why there is so much hatred towards collectors - here is exhibit A. |
| Barry Durex 07.02.2017 06:24 |
You really think this has been PURPOSELY degraded? |
| Chinwonder2 07.02.2017 11:07 |
I don't know about the black and white section of video but definitely the time counter has been added in after... I just find it strange that all of a sudden the tape turns to colour and there isn't any tape error after that... -Chin |
| guild93 07.02.2017 15:54 |
Barry Durex wrote: You really think this has been PURPOSELY degraded?No I don't, to me it's obvious there was a tape fault early in the song which is why they replaced that same section on the Days of Our Lives doco. |
| Barry Durex 07.02.2017 17:07 |
The Real Wizard wrote:Why would it be an old school counter? The TCR was generated by the edit machine used a few years back, it's not on the original tape itself! Although a TCR can be turned off during a transfer, in this case it was simply left on. I wouldn't say the guy who uploaded the clip is guilty of anything sinister, including purposely degrading it. What you are seeing is an unedited 4:3 dub, and all things being considered, pretty good it looks too.brians wig wrote: It almost sucks to me of whoever uploaded it has purposefully degraded the first section for some reason. That time counter has certainly been added on at a later point.Correct. That is not an old school analog counter. And people wonder why there is so much hatred towards collectors - here is exhibit A. |
| Barry Durex 07.02.2017 17:37 |
A widescreen edit was used for the DOOL documentary so the TCR being there didn't matter anyway, it was simply cropped out. |
| pittrek 08.02.2017 14:42 |
The timecode is 100% CG. The noise on first glance looks genuine, but why is it so blocky, which would suggest digital compression and ABOVE IT (on the z-axis, not sure what the correct term is) is some weird blurriness on the left and on the right.The the weird defects on 0:21 or 0:24, or even 0:42 - is it normal on video-sourced recording? I have seen similar problems with film based recording, but never personally on a video-sourced recording. Anyway, it's great to have at least something! Does anybody have time to reduce the saturation of the red channel and do some channel alignment? |
| Barry Durex 08.02.2017 17:40 |
pittrek wrote: The timecode is 100% CG. The noise on first glance looks genuine, but why is it so blocky, which would suggest digital compressionIt's a TCR on a modern day professional studio editing machine. The youtube clip linked in the first post is only 640 x 480 and you don't expect some compression? The video and sound ''interference'' you see and hear at the start is somebody fine tuning the TV station into the VCR during the recording back in 1974. My guess is Mr. Emery didn't quite have BBC1 tuned in correctly. The manual analogue tuners on early VCR's had a habit of drifting slightly out of tune every so often, and may not of had a channel lock. |
| Barry Durex 08.02.2017 18:43 |
This youtube clip was uploaded by a different user nearly a year ago, the TCR has been cropped out at this stage, but you can still see and hear the same ''interference'' at the start--- |
| dysan 09.02.2017 02:28 |
Tracking videos manually like that certainly didn't look like that in my day. Looks like a digital construct on this recording. |
| Barry Durex 09.02.2017 02:36 |
dysan wrote: Tracking videos manually like that certainly didn't look like that in my day. Looks like a digital construct on this recording.It's NOT ''tracking" that you see and hear, its the manual tuning of the TV station to the VCR. Fine tuning the channel (BBC1 in this case) in the VCR tuner can be done DURING the RECORDING process. The tracking adjustment of a TAPE is a different thing entirely, and is done during PLAY BACK. You lot will have me uploading a 1974 VCR manual next! Hopefully there is a version without a TCR burnt in, but I doubt we'll ever see it if the owner gets wind of this conspiracy thread...........exhibit A indeed. |
| The Real Wizard 10.02.2017 01:43 |
Barry Durex wrote: Hopefully there is a version without a TCR burnt in, but I doubt we'll ever see it if the owner gets wind of this conspiracy thread...........exhibit A indeed.Anyone remotely connected to the world of music collecting is well aware that there are countless cases of people (and not just bootleggers) purposely degrading the quality of audio and video so that they can keep a better copy for themselves. If someone has a clean copy of this, this thread shouldn't somehow insult them - rather it's an opportunity to be one of the good guys who aren't doing that and simply offer something of value to people who will enjoy it, and no hard feelings. |
| Barry Durex 10.02.2017 02:21 |
Of course the master copy has no TCR burnt in, you think Mr. Emery's tape was transferred directly to DVD? Obviously it is cleaned up and edited first, and there may indeed be a copy of THAT in 4:3 without a TCR. My posts might explain how and why the TCR is there and what the "interference" actually might be. Are you telling me that's all shit? |
| dysan 10.02.2017 02:22 |
@Barry - yes I think you're right. Thank you for the clarification. |
| Barry Durex 10.02.2017 02:25 |
Real Wizard - my last post was a direct reply to yours. It seems you edited your post so my reply seems rather harsh now. What I'm trying to say is, simply uploading a file to youtube degrades it. I appreciate there are people like sikke who contaminate them further, but I know other collectors who would not do that sort of thing. |
| brians wig 10.02.2017 04:15 |
Well. Barry's theory about manual tuning is a possibility. I certainly could manually tune in TV stations on my first VCR in 1981 whilst recording. There was none of this digital tuning nonsense back then! However, I find it hard to believe that, unless Queen were the first band on and the show had already started by the time "record" was pressed, all this "out of tune picture" surely would have been sorted out earlier. Surely the guy recording it wanted the entire edition of TOTP and not just Queen? If he had JUST wanted Queen, how the heck did he know when to press record in time NOT to miss the beginning? I cannot comment on the machine used to record this off-air as we have no idea what it was, but certainly early VHS and Betamax recorders took an average of 5 seconds to wrap the tape around the heads and start to record from when the button was pressed" (unless you had it in "pause" mode, which no one in their right mind would do for long periods of time as it wore the tape out and machines had a built in safety cut out anyway to prevent this). The timecode doesn't bother me in the slightest - of course it's recently done. |
| Barry Durex 10.02.2017 04:28 |
There are many possibilities. He could have set the timer, then later switched the TV on at that point in time, realised the VCR was off tune and quickly put it right. He's dead now so we can't ask him, but I do blame him entirely for punishing us in this way (joke). He was awful, but I liked him. R.I.P. |
| brians wig 10.02.2017 05:20 |
Well. What we have is better than nothing. I know I'd gladly have all the missing Dr Who episodes slightly out of tune than not have them at all. |
| Barry Durex 10.02.2017 05:28 |
Perhaps Bob Monkhouse has a better copy, can't ask him either unfortunately. |
| dysan 11.02.2017 03:48 |
Remember when the whole nation nearly fell apart because he lost his joke book? Strange days. |
| brians wig 11.02.2017 04:01 |
There was one thing to be said about Bob Monkhouse. His humour was never crude, rude or vulgar. |
| dysan 11.02.2017 04:36 |
The irony is that a lot of previously lost episodes of Bob's Full House were actually recorded by John Deacon and preserved for the nation. |
| Barry Durex 11.02.2017 07:56 |
Is that another conspiracy theory? |
| dysan 11.02.2017 09:24 |
Monkhouse Effect |
| Barry Durex 11.02.2017 11:31 |
He was my Uncle. |
| dysan 11.02.2017 17:41 |
Yeah right and monkhouses might fly out of my butt |
| Barry Durex 11.02.2017 17:48 |
Bob's my Uncle. |
| dysan 12.02.2017 00:13 |
*leaves thread* |
| Barry Durex 12.02.2017 03:15 |
Bob's your Uncle. |
| brians wig 27.02.2017 03:44 |
OK. I've been talking with someone who knows the people involved with finding this and the other lost TOTP performances.. He confirms that Killer Queen was recorded by Dick Emery who had a problem with his ariel lead/socket on his VCR, hence why the start is nothing but "noise" until he plugged it in properly! An even simpler answer than the one postulated by Barry! Seven Seas and Now I'm Here were all recorded by a 30yr old enthusiast (no name given) who owned two VCRs: one which recorded in colour and the other which recorded in Black and White. With the 7 seas performances the tapes were not "baked" in an oven correctly hence the colour drop out and tape "wobble", which might explain why QPL gave us that "mix" version on the bluray. Oh, and before anyone asks, the answer is "No". I cannot get hold of any of these from this guy - he adamantly refuses to share/trade/sell because, whilst he has copies, he is not the person who "owns" the original collection. And don't ask me for his name as I won't divulge it. |
| Barry Durex 27.02.2017 04:19 |
brians wig wrote: OK. I've been talking with someone who knows the people involved with finding this and the other lost TOTP performances.. He confirms that Killer Queen was recorded by Dick Emery who had a problem with his ariel lead/socket on his VCR, hence why the start is nothing but "noise" until he plugged it in properly! An even simpler answer than the one postulated by Barry! Seven Seas and Now I'm Here were all recorded by a 30yr old enthusiast (no name given) who owned two VCRs: one which recorded in colour and the other which recorded in Black and White. the 7 seas performances the tapes were not "baked" in an oven correctly hence the colour drop out and tape "wobble", which might explain why QPL gave us that "mix" version on the bluray. Oh, and before anyone asks, the answer is "No". I cannot get hold of any of these from this guy - he adamantly refuses to share/trade/sell because, whilst he has copies, he is not the person who "owns" the original collection. And don't ask me for his name as I won't divulge it. A VHS tape was baked? I thought the Seven Seas B/W version was ''out there'' already, isn't it this one?--- |
| brians wig 27.02.2017 04:35 |
This was pre-VHS Barry. They're probably Phillips VCR's like we had in school in those days: the ones with the square 60 minute cassettes, or cartrivision maybe. I'll ask. Two of the seven seas peformances have been available in terrible quality for decades as you know, but obviously the copies QPL now possess are better quality and from this enthusiasts archive. It's "those" original mid 70's tapes that were baked incorrectly. |
| Barry Durex 27.02.2017 04:47 |
I'm not sure Philips VC tapes would be bake proof either link I'm still confused, a thirty year old enthusiast who wasn't even born in 1974 recorded two performances of TOTP in 1974? |
| cmsdrums 27.02.2017 07:35 |
brians wig wrote: OK. I've been talking with someone who knows the people involved with finding this and the other lost TOTP performances.. He confirms that Killer Queen was recorded by Dick Emery who had a problem with his ariel lead/socket on his VCR, hence why the start is nothing but "noise" until he plugged it in properly! An even simpler answer than the one postulated by Barry! Seven Seas and Now I'm Here were all recorded by a 30yr old enthusiast (no name given) who owned two VCRs: one which recorded in colour and the other which recorded in Black and White. With the 7 seas performances the tapes were not "baked" in an oven correctly hence the colour drop out and tape "wobble", which might explain why QPL gave us that "mix" version on the bluray. Oh, and before anyone asks, the answer is "No". I cannot get hold of any of these from this guy - he adamantly refuses to share/trade/sell because, whilst he has copies, he is not the person who "owns" the original collection. And don't ask me for his name as I won't divulge it.Not asking if this is your source or not, but Ian Levine has a collection of TOTP and other TV show performances to rival most. |
| brians wig 27.02.2017 09:52 |
Barry Durex wrote: I'm not sure Philips VC tapes would be bake proof either link I'm still confused, a thirty year old enthusiast who wasn't even born in 1974 recorded two performances of TOTP in 1974?Maybe he was 30 in 1974...? And you take the tapes out of the shells....? Look. I'm just passing on what I was told. No. It's not Ian Levine that I'm aware of. |
| GinjaNinja 27.02.2017 10:45 |
Is there any chance the tapes could still be properly baked to get a good playback? |
| brians wig 27.02.2017 13:15 |
GinjaNinja wrote: Is there any chance the tapes could still be properly baked to get a good playback?The magnetic material on tapes tends to break down as time goes by and you get what's known as "Sticky Tape Syndrome". Baking temprarily dries them out so the tape can be unwound during playback without tearing and pulling the oxides etc off and most of the time it's possible to make a transfer without serious issues, though damage has already been done to the tape and thus pictures aren't always perfect. Rebaking won't improve matters. It's a one-shot option I think. |
| GinjaNinja 27.02.2017 16:54 |
brians wig wrote: The magnetic material on tapes tends to break down as time goes by and you get what's known as "Sticky Tape Syndrome". Baking temprarily dries them out so the tape can be unwound during playback without tearing and pulling the oxides etc off and most of the time it's possible to make a transfer without serious issues, though damage has already been done to the tape and thus pictures aren't always perfect. Rebaking won't improve matters. It's a one-shot option I think.I thought as much, what a shame. Hopefully they don't use the same people to bake their multitrack tapes! |
| . 02.03.2017 07:30 |
Baking Reels QPL style: Link |
