QueenZone discussion #1443847
Some Studio Stats
| Sebastian 16.11.2015 02:10 |
There are probably some mistakes. If so, don't hesitate to let me know. |
| dysan 16.11.2015 02:42 |
Fantastic. Thanks for sharing. |
| ludwigs 16.11.2015 04:48 |
Excellent and very thorough list Seb. |
| thomasquinn 32989 16.11.2015 05:12 |
Question: why is Roger listed as "chief composer" for "Yeah"? |
| stevelondon20 16.11.2015 07:09 |
Great list Seb. Cheers mate. |
| tomchristie22 16.11.2015 07:19 |
Brilliant work! I never knew that Freddie produced the De Lane Lea session (unless I'm misunderstanding that bit of info?) I'm not convinced that Roger should be listed as a lead vocalist for Father to Son - is the passage in question 'You won't understand a word that's in it, but you'll write it out again before you die'? That's the part that I've seen attributed as being at least partially Roger, but I'm pretty certain it's Freddie through and through. |
| tomchristie22 16.11.2015 07:35 |
thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Question: why is Roger listed as "chief composer" for "Yeah"?Presumably because it comes from 'Action This Day', which Roger wrote. It's a bit meaningless to assign it a composer at all, since it's an acapella ad lib and Sebastian's using the word 'composer' to mean the person who wrote the music. |
| Sebastian 16.11.2015 07:50 |
tomchristie22 wrote: Brilliant work! I never knew that Freddie produced the De Lane Lea session (unless I'm misunderstanding that bit of info?)Those sessions were self-produced by the band and Louis Austin engineered. When I interviewed Louis circa half a decade ago, he confirmed Freddie was the chief producer although each band member was quite particular about the sound he wanted. Louis has often been mis-credited (on unofficial sources) as the producer of those sessions, but he confirmed he was not. tomchristie22 wrote: I'm not convinced that Roger should be listed as a lead vocalist for Father to Son - is the passage in question 'You won't understand a word that's in it, but you'll write it out again before you die'? That's the part that I've seen attributed as being at least partially Roger, but I'm pretty certain it's Freddie through and through.That part is Freddie, all of it, but Roger sings the coda (in octaves). tomchristie22 wrote:Yes, I admit it's a debatable choice. There's little chance 'yeah' (with its melody) were part of Roger's demo, but since Fred ad-libbed it on a song by Roger, I just listed it as his to emphasise its connexion to its origins. It could be, however, simply credited to Freddie as well. At the end of the day, that's the most irrelevant piece of 'music' the band ever released ('Yeah', that is, not 'Action'), so it's not that big of a deal.thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Question: why is Roger listed as "chief composer" for "Yeah"?Presumably because it comes from 'Action This Day', which Roger wrote. It's a bit meaningless to assign it a composer at all, since it's an acapella ad lib and Sebastian's using the word 'composer' to mean the person who wrote the music. |
| Sebastian 16.11.2015 09:33 |
Some mistakes have been corrected. |
| Sebastian 16.11.2015 09:34 |
And a different list. |
| Togg 16.11.2015 10:46 |
Blimey that's a lot of work, well done, I never really gave it any thought but interesting to see Roger doesn't appear on I Want to Break Free. |
| Sebastian 16.11.2015 10:55 |
Interestingly enough, that's his favourite John song, and he even covered it on his second solo tour. |
| Tlr 16.11.2015 12:44 |
That's great work....um I don't think I can see No one but you or Let me in your heart again on the list (?) |
| Sebastian 16.11.2015 12:52 |
I'm only counting the original 15 studio albums (or well... the original 13 plus 'Flash Gordon' and whichever way you choose to interpret 'Made in Heaven'). We could always add Feelings Feelings, BBC sessions, 1971 demos and other stuff, maybe at some point n_n |
| daga 16.11.2015 13:39 |
Thanks, big work. I think all will be happy if You add all Queen songs from Freddie's era. Any chance for solo songs? Do You plan add info about types of instruments such guitar Telecaster or Red Special, OBX or Roland ect. ? |
| Sebastian 16.11.2015 14:38 |
Yes and yes :D |
| cmi 16.11.2015 15:01 |
The listings are great, but I think it's incorrect to interpret track 12 on Made In Heaven CD as a separate song. We all know that so-called 'Yeah' is the part of It's A Beautiful Day (reprise). It was divided from the song only to make "13" to be track 13 on CD. There's no any official mention of it as a song with a proper title. The recent double vinyl finally officially revealed the title of ambient piece as "13" but there's no any 'Yeah' track on Side 3. Simple As That. |
| audhild1984 17.11.2015 09:35 |
tomchristie22 wrote:I always thought that 'Yeah' comes from 'Don't Try Suicide', but now I admit that it is quite difficult for me to distinguish if it comes from 'Don't Try Suicide' or 'Action This Day'...thomasquinn 32989 wrote: Question: why is Roger listed as "chief composer" for "Yeah"?Presumably because it comes from 'Action This Day', which Roger wrote. It's a bit meaningless to assign it a composer at all, since it's an acapella ad lib and Sebastian's using the word 'composer' to mean the person who wrote the music. Do you have any source? |
| master marathon runner 17.11.2015 15:00 |
I'm sure Wikipedia mention "track 13". |
| RMT Fan 17.11.2015 17:08 |
Thanks a lot for that! |
| RMT Fan 17.11.2015 17:20 |
Staying Power horns arr. Arif Mardin |
| Sebastian 18.11.2015 05:51 |
Yes, but still the main arranger and producer was Freddie (he took Arif's bits and re-organised them with Mack) and Arif didn't play any instrument. |
| Dim 18.11.2015 10:20 |
On Bring Back That Leory Brown the vocals is arranged - orchstrated, were done by Freddie. That's why they put it as bonus on 2011 double cds. It was a demostration of what Freddie could do. Also I wonder if the keys on NIH were played by Freddie. |
| cmsdrums 18.11.2015 12:49 |
Sebastian wrote: Yes, but still the main arranger and producer was Freddie (he took Arif's bits and re-organised them with Mack) and Arif didn't play any instrument.Where did the info regarding Freddie rearranging the horns come to you from Seb? I know some tracks don't fully reflect the credits correctly, but with Mardin being credited officially as the arranger of those parts, and him having a history of similar horn work for other artists, it would be interesting to find out how much his original arrangement was changed. Cheers |
| Sebastian 18.11.2015 22:44 |
link Page 111. |
| The Real Wizard 19.11.2015 01:03 |
Dim wrote: On Bring Back That Leory Brown the vocals is arranged - orchstrated, were done by Freddie. That's why they put it as bonus on 2011 double cds. It was a demostration of what Freddie could do. Also I wonder if the keys on NIH were played by Freddie.Those were by Brian. He wrote about it on his soapbox a few years back. Brilliant work as always, Seb ! |
| Bohardy 19.11.2015 02:18 |
The Real Wizard wrote: Those were by Brian. He wrote about it on his soapbox a few years back.Seriously? I don't recall reading that, and a quick Google yields nothing. Do you have a link? |
| cmsdrums 19.11.2015 02:45 |
Sebastian wrote: link Page 111.Thanks - interesting read, and not something I was aware of before. Interestingly, when referring to 'Staying Power as an opening track, I notice this thesis says on p104...." Featured prominently as Hot Space's opening track, "Staying Power" situates the album upon unstable generic terrain, as Queen normally began their albums with an upbeat rock-oriented piece". As this document is clearly so detailed, it's worth being just as detailed in commenting..... From a language point of view 'Staying Power' shouldn't really be referred to as 'featuring PROMINENTLY' as the opening track... it IS the opening track! (The use of the word 'prominently' intimates there are other opening tracks of which this is simply a prominent one). Staying Power features no more prminently that any other track on the album). In addition, to say that "Queen NORMALLY began their albums with an upbeat rock-oriented piece" isn't necessarily true. I know that Seb likes to categorise their material quite rigidly, so taking this 'NORMALLY' statement and reviewing album openers to that point might be interesting: Queen - Keep Yourself Alive (yes, upbeat rock/pop) Queen II - Procession (no - not upeat or rock) SHA - Brighton Rock (yes, upbeat rock) ANATO - Death on Two Legs (yes, upbeat rock) ADATR - intrumental guitar progression (no, not upbeat or rock) NOTW - We Will Rock You (no - not upbeat, and at that time, certainly not rock) Jazz - Mustapha (upbeat, but far from rock at the time, with eastern influence, structure and melody and language) Flash Gordon - Flash's Theme (a band doing a soundtrack, with elements of dialogue? - not rock) The Game - Play The Game (rock yes, but not upbeat) Takign the claim made in the thesis, only a third of the studio albums to date at that point had 'upbeat rock' opening pieces, so this wasn't the 'norm' as claimed. |
| Sebastian 19.11.2015 07:31 |
That thesis does have some mistakes (several, actually, the worst one being listing Edinburgh as being in England ... you'd expect much more from someone who was educated to a high level and possibly tired of foreigners thinking his country's just America's hat). In his defence, though, he might have been regarding 'Father to Son' and 'Tie Your Mother Down' as opening tracks as well (especially in the vinyl era, it'd be understandable to regard 'Procession' and 'Father to Son' as a single piece, despite what the liner notes mention, same for 'Tie Your Mother Down' and the overture) and, also, in the context of a soundtrack so heavily layered with synths and with some clean guitars, 'Flash's Theme' was possibly 'upbeat rock' compared to most of them (except for 'Battle Theme' and 'The Hero', of course). 'We Will Rock You' wasn't the heaviest track on the album by any means but, compared to what Freddie and John wrote, it certainly was. And it was certainly 'upbeat' compared to 'All Dead'. I'm not too fond of that song, to be honest, but I do think it works quite well as an opener. It's powerful, it's different, it's unexpected, and it perfectly summarises the 'back to basics' feel of the album. Perhaps Barry could've rephrased that the opening track (or opening two-tracks) used to be a vehicle to describe the general orientation of the album: * Keep Yourself Alive: Layered, powerful, with long instrumental sections, good vocals (but certainly not as strong as later on), a combination of tight backing tracks and beautiful harmonies. * Procession / Father to Son: A bit of an homage to 'Dark Side of the Moon' perhaps ... at least in the basic concept of having the heartbeats and a bit of a taste of things to come. On QOL we were discussing what the 'definitive Queen song' could be (other than 'Bo Rhap'), and I think 'Father to Son' is a strong contender: it's got heavy bits, slow bits, simple bits, complex bits, it's got guitar (both electric and acoustic), bass, piano, drums, loads of harmonies, soft vocals, powerful vocals, minimalist sections, overlayered sections ... that describes really well what the album (and the early days of the band as a whole) would be all about. * Brighton Rock: Harmonies (on both guitars and vocals) show up more scarcely (but, in my opinion, even cleverer than on the second album), drums are really powerful, the song is clever and elaborate but also quite accessible and melodic (depending on the section). * Death on Two Legs: Epic, loud, intricate, daring, with abrupt changes of arrangement, emphasis on broad vocal ranges. It's meant to surprise and shock and that's what the album does. * Overture / Tie Your Mother Down: Loads of harmonies (and very carefully built indeed) but generally more orientated towards rock than classical. That's where the contrast between 'Tie Your Mother Down' and 'Death on Two Legs' is so telling. At the end of the day, I think their parent albums weren't as similar as people tend to think. Neither are those tracks, despite having the loosely common thread of having a vicious protagonist. * We Will Rock You: Strong, minimalist, powerful, relatively simple (compared to previous albums), easier to translate to a concert environment. * Mustapha: Weird, daring, clever, different, shocking, but also relatively short. I love both the song and the album but I agree it wasn't too well produced, and the fact half of this track is in mono also foreshadows that. * Play the Game: Those awful synths (which fortunately only show up on the minority of sections, both for the song and the album), a relatively toned-down but quite powerful ensemble (both vocally and instrumentally). In a way, the song is probably more similar to their 70's output, but it's also a nice introduction to the album and it does tell us that there are some changes (some radical ones, as the video also shows) but that the trademarks (the vocals, the powerful drums, the melodic bass, the marvellous guitars, the delicate piano) are still there. * Flash's Theme: Considering a big chunk of the album is just reprising that track, it makes sense to open with it. It's also by far one of their best songs on the OST, and one of the relatively few ones to feature all four band members. * Staying Power: From the first beat you can tell this album (especially the first side) is gonna sound quite different to the previous ones (although there were some precedents with 'Dust' and others). |
| Vocal harmony 20.11.2015 05:35 |
Sebastian wrote: * Procession / Father to Son: A bit of an homage to 'Dark Side of the Moon' perhaps ... at least in the basic concept of having the heartbeats and a bit of a taste of things to come. .The beginning of Procession quite clearly, unlike Dark Side Of The Moon, does not start with a heart beat. It is a drum pattern which reflects the rhythm of the music. The opening of Dark Side is a heart beat, or at least a recorded simulation of one which forms the background of the intro to Breath and has no direct physical musical link to the song |
| Sebastian 20.11.2015 07:57 |
Vocal harmony wrote: The beginning of Procession quite clearly, unlike Dark Side Of The Moon, does not start with a heart beat.Well, no, not really, since it's in a different metre and all, but the result is quite similar. |