| winterspelt 02.12.2014 00:12 |
I have a question and I havent found the answer so Im sure many of you will know the datails. Listening to Queen I album, Brian's tone is totally different: I know the the intro on KYA is not flanger but a flanger effect caused by multi tracking, recording string by string. Besides of KYA, the whole album have a very different guitar tone, I even dare to say that some songs sound as if they were played using another amp instead of the ac30's. As for the Works album, Brian's guitar have a very sharp sound, as if he changed to another treble booster or something like that... Does anybody have info about it? |
| Sebastian 02.12.2014 00:24 |
On the first album he may have indeed used the studio's backline amps for a number of reasons, including a strictly financial/practical one: since a lot of time they were recording in graveyard shifts and had to use public transport, it wasn't necessarily easy for him to move around with his guitar and two amps and the frequency-selective boost, etc. On 'The Works' he recorded a few songs using another guitar, a Gibson Firebird owned by engineer Ben Fenner (it's credited on the album's liner notes as 'Ben's guitar'). There's also the factor of having used different mics, pre-amps (or lack thereof) and especially personnel involved (Queen I: a different producer and two engineers they never worked with again; The Works: different studio and resident engineers). Brian did remain loyal to his trademark BHM guitar + Vox Ac30 amp for most of his ongoing recording and touring career, but it doesn't mean he was 'married' to that rig (time for a really lame and low but true comment: he got married to a woman in real life, and he wasn't entirely faithful to that one either). |
| cmsdrums 02.12.2014 00:50 |
Interesting - did he use the Firebird exclusively on some tracks on The Works in place of the Red Special, or just snippets here and there? |
| ITSM 02.12.2014 02:42 |
...and if so, which tracks? |
| artist_nine 02.12.2014 04:08 |
I believe the different sound on The Works album is also partly due to the use of a Boss Chorus/Phaser pedal, which he explains in the Star Licks video (filmed roughly at the time of The Works album): link |
| Togg 02.12.2014 04:09 |
I think the first album is like many bands first stab in a studio, Brian was still trying to find his tone and that coupled with the fact that they were grabbing sometimes just the odd hour or two meant keeping the same tone throughout was practically impossible. Through out the rest of Queen's albums Brian has changed a number of elements of his rig, most notably the treble booster, however every studio has different equipment in there so chorus and general effects will all differ each time. |
| Togg 02.12.2014 04:13 |
Seb, when you say 'liner notes' is that something not on the pressing of the album? I am struggling to find any credit on my copies of the album? |
| Vocal harmony 02.12.2014 09:09 |
Sebastian wrote: On the first album he may have indeed used the studio's backline amps for a number of reasons, including a strictly financial/practical one: since a lot of time they were recording in graveyard shifts and had to use public transport, it wasn't necessarily easy for him to move around with his guitar and two amps and the frequency-selective boost, etc. On 'The Works' he recorded a few songs using another guitar, a Gibson Firebird owned by engineer Ben Fenner (it's credited on the album's liner notes as 'Ben's guitar'). There's also the factor of having used different mics, pre-amps (or lack thereof) and especially personnel involved (Queen I: a different producer and two engineers they never worked with again; The Works: different studio and resident engineers). Brian did remain loyal to his trademark BHM guitar + Vox Ac30 amp for most of his ongoing recording and touring career, but it doesn't mean he was 'married' to that rig (time for a really lame and low but true comment: he got married to a woman in real life, and he wasn't entirely faithful to that one either).At the time of the first Queen album BM was using two standard Vox AC30 Top Boost amps and treble booster and also the Deacy amp. I'm not sure he did use other amplification on that album. While everything listed above has made a difference a number of other things played their part. Different recording consoles and tape machines can have quite an effect on sound but also between the first album and The Works BM's AC30's were heavily modified, the polarity of the middle pickup on his guitar was turned around, different strings and string gauges were used all of which combined to alter the sound. If you listen to early 70's live recordings and compare them to gigs from the 80's the difference in guitar tone/sound can be heard, and that's without any studio and recording equipment or techniques getting in the signal path. |
| The King Of Rhye 02.12.2014 09:10 |
THANKS TO: Jim Beach, Gerry Stickells, Paul Prenter, Julie Nash, Sara Juszkiewicz, Roseanne Nemes, Melanie Martin, Peter Chant, Neal Levin, Lisa Abrhams, Jacky Gunn, Andy Evans, Rose Mann, Steve Whysall, Peter Jones and Ben's guitar. got that from link Never knew the story behind that.........actually I wasnt even aware of that bit in the liner notes......lol |
| *goodco* 02.12.2014 10:17 |
It's little topics like this, along with the extremely knowledgeable responses, that keep some of us tuning in to this site on occasion. Thank you. Along with the queenvaults.com work. Due to the unfulfilled 'Forever' promises, I've used this site since the summer as a guide for going to youtube for demos and rarities. |
| winterspelt 02.12.2014 11:20 |
Never knew about Ben's guitar either...! Although I think the Firebird should not make a lot of difference, as the pickups are not as hot as the sound in the remaining songs (and even on Put Out the Fire, from Hot Space) the change artist_nine said have a lot of sense, perhaps Brian replaced his booster... As for the sound in Queen I, I didnt thought on the studio equipment because, AFAIK both were recorded on De Lane Lea and since the AC30s were very popular (I think because of the Beatles) so the recording gear was very much the same... But the lack of experience in the studio seems like a very logical idea for the sound difference... |
| The Real Wizard 02.12.2014 11:25 |
artist_nine wrote: I believe the different sound on The Works album is also partly due to the use of a Boss Chorus/Phaser pedal, which he explains in the Star Licks video (filmed roughly at the time of The Works album): linkYup. By the mid 80s, just about every rock guitarist in the world was using the chorus pedal. |
| The Real Wizard 02.12.2014 11:31 |
Vocal harmony wrote: If you listen to early 70's live recordings and compare them to gigs from the 80's the difference in guitar tone/sound can be heard, and that's without any studio and recording equipment or techniques getting in the signal path.^ this. |
| The King Of Rhye 02.12.2014 11:49 |
Brian still sounds like Brian no matter what guitar he plays.....or what gear he uses...........(ie Crazy Little Thing Called Love......Roger's Tele through a Mesa/Boogie) Naturally, that's mostly due to his style of playing..........but I'd say also partly because he could get quite a variety of sounds from the Red Special..........(due to all the pickup switching and phase options) |
| Togg 03.12.2014 05:49 |
Arrh yes found it now thanks
The King Of Rhye wrote: THANKS TO: Jim Beach, Gerry Stickells, Paul Prenter, Julie Nash, Sara Juszkiewicz, Roseanne Nemes, Melanie Martin, Peter Chant, Neal Levin, Lisa Abrhams, Jacky Gunn, Andy Evans, Rose Mann, Steve Whysall, Peter Jones and Ben's guitar. got that from link Never knew the story behind that.........actually I wasnt even aware of that bit in the liner notes......lol |
| Togg 13.10.2016 05:40 |
Bumping this topic, As far as I'm aware he only used it in an emergency when his guitar was elsewhere just on a small snippet not a 'few songs' but happy to be proved wrong if someone knows the full story? |
| Fireplace 13.10.2016 18:28 |
Togg wrote: Bumping this topic, As far as I'm aware he only used it in an emergency when his guitar was elsewhere just on a small snippet not a 'few songs' but happy to be proved wrong if someone knows the full story?Can't remember where I got it from, but I read that the Firebird was used on one of the rhythm tracks on Hammer To Fall. Since the other track is definitely the Red Special I suppose that means he used them side by side and the Firebird was used for contrast. If you listen to the Rock Band-stems it's relatively easy to identify. |
| Sebastian 13.10.2016 21:40 |
The owner of the guitar, Ben Fenner, allegedly said he could hear it on 'Tear It Up' as well. |
| Sebastian 13.10.2016 21:40 |
The owner of the guitar, Ben Fenner, allegedly said he could hear it on 'Tear It Up' as well. |
| Biggus Dickus 14.10.2016 02:18 |
On the Headbanger's Mix of Hammer To Fall you can clearly hear two different guitar tones. Is that the other guitar? |
| Togg 14.10.2016 02:56 |
Interesting, if you listen to most Queen guitar only tracks you hear obviously multiple layers of guitar which alway fascinate me, I wonder if he was just looking for a 'different' tone or whether there was an issue with the RS, I know with Hero it was in another country at the time (I think) so part of that is another guitar |
| cmsdrums 14.10.2016 03:50 |
Biggus Dickus wrote: On the Headbanger's Mix of Hammer To Fall you can clearly hear two different guitar tones. Is that the other guitar?On that extended mix you can clearly hear a change in the whole sound of the track when the extended section comes in towards the end, and then the tone etc ...drops back to 'normal' when it reverts back to the usual mix (for example, the drums become a little sharper and more 'top end-y' in the extended section). I can only assume (and this is just educated guesswork) they recorded the track in the extended length format, and then created a mix. This was then edited to have the extended piece cut out, and the remaining album mix was tweaked mix-wise and mastered. A while later it was decided that HTF would be a single and they wanted a 12" mix, but rather than go back to the original 'complete' mix they took the album version and re-insterted the original cut, and couldn't quite match up the frequencies etc in a new master. |
| Togg 14.10.2016 08:22 |
To me the most un RS moment is at 1.40 here where he is picking the guitar, I'd say that sound more like a 'normal' guitar and not the RS, the rest of the mix sounds to me so close to the RS I can't see why they bother with another guitar if that's what they wanted it to sound like link |
| Vocal harmony 14.10.2016 10:03 |
Togg wrote: " the rest of the mix sounds to me so close to the RS I can't see why they bother with another guitar if that's what they wanted it to sound like linkUnless those parts were recorded separate to the the rest and the RS wasn't to hand |
| Fireplace 14.10.2016 14:26 |
Togg wrote: Interesting, if you listen to most Queen guitar only tracks you hear obviously multiple layers of guitar which alway fascinate me, I wonder if he was just looking for a 'different' tone or whether there was an issue with the RS, I know with Hero it was in another country at the time (I think) so part of that is another guitarIn the case of "Bens guitar" I clearly remember Brian stating that it was used to obtain some contrast with the Red Special. It is actually not that hard to identify, it sounds clearer, colder and tighter than the RS, but still very different from the RS out-of-phase pick ups. To my ears it's one of Brian's less pleasing guitar sounds. |