QueenZone discussion #1386714
Lambert fans vs Freddie fans
| Day dop 19.06.2014 17:49 |
The comment section. Very bizarre, sort of amusing. I'm seeing this quite a bit on the net, on the Queen page as well. Btw, I only pop on here once in a while, so I don't know if you guys get it in here. Seems like a bit of a divide has come about between old fans and new fans. link |
| Day dop 19.06.2014 17:50 |
I blame John. It's all his fault. Totally. |
| tomchristie22 20.06.2014 01:05 |
The top comments at the moment look pretty reasonable. There's always gonna be idiots out there - the comments on Queen's facebook page are a prime example. Seems like people can't bear to take a middle ground - it's either gotta be that Adam is incomprehensibly wonderful and better than Freddie, or he's an absolute stain on Queen's reputation, and Brian and Roger are washed up fools for playing with him. |
| matt z 20.06.2014 05:53 |
Freddie fans win by a landslide For sheer brutality and for numbers Adam fans PRO: Young club kids gay thug kids rotten rich kids Growing numbers, yet not numerous enough potentially diverse fan base, possible athletes and martial artists Adam fans CON some possibly frail/ effeminate many children Growing number of middle aged and old women (GOOGLE BARRY MANILOW for honest comparison for this target style audience, thankfully for him this rock exposure and his refusal to"die" as a standards cover artist may keep him around. ... plus he's literally gay. ... that's the ONLY thing saving GAGA at the moment. ... blatant pandering to a gay crowd. Her last album was shit. Right down to Jeff Koons (who doesn't even create his artwork, it's designed then he has others compose it) Oh right. .. cons For sheer brutality, his audience may contain the occasional athlete or fighter but those are few and far between FREDDIE fans PRO capitalize his name in comparison probably number in the tens of millions (really. People keep f***ing regardless of depleting resources) Warriors, influential, fighters, athletes etc in virtually every language ARE FOOTBALL FANS (futbol riot anyone? ) Know how to bludgeon (see above) Freddie fans CON some are effeminate and can't fight MANY are just as old as Brian and Roger *but. ..... many are gun owners RESULT? CLEARLY, Freddie fans win by multitudes and power, as well as influence. It's a no brainer. They're tougher as well. I'd like to see that fight. It'd be better than shit like that movie 300 |
| gerry 20.06.2014 08:21 |
Its like everything else, Adam Lambert fans are just silly girls a bit like "one direction", they do not care if he can or cannot sing but they like him because he is a pretty boy with eye liner and all that goth clothing he wears, its so Not Queen and May & Taylor look very odd performing with Lambert. In "Record Collector" the readers have wrote in to say that Lambert is a no no and so was Paul Rodgers, But if i had to pick one it would certainly be Paul, because he is a fine rock singer and Lambert has not even hit British radio stations yet or been in the top 10 single charts! I am a long ardent Freddie Mercury fan, he is god of rock and roll and May & Taylor know Queen has disolved, so why spoil the legacy of playing stadiums with a glorified west end singer, or (could have been) but please singing in the greatest rock group ever is just mental. Queen will always be known for Freddie Mercury, but the bit at the end with Lambert will always be Queens most cringe worthy moment in my opinion. |
| malicedoom 20.06.2014 10:12 |
Just going based off the show last night at the United Center in Chicago, everyone seemed to love the 'Complete Package'. The place was jammed and there were fans from both and all really seemed to enjoy the night. And Lambert sounded great and had no problem fitting in perfectly with Queen. It was fantastic to see. Just my $0.02. |
| gerry 20.06.2014 11:30 |
great glad you had a nice time but.... have you ever seen Queen with Freddie Mercury? If you thought lambert was great then you would have been blown away watching Freddie on stage. Lambert is just a singer, Freddie is a rock legend and the greatest showman ever! |
| FreddieCat 20.06.2014 12:59 |
matt z wrote: Freddie fans win by a landslide For sheer brutality and for numbers Adam fans PRO: Young club kids gay thug kids rotten rich kids Growing numbers, yet not numerous enough potentially diverse fan base, possible athletes and martial artists Adam fans CON some possibly frail/ effeminate many children Growing number of middle aged and old women (GOOGLE BARRY MANILOW for honest comparison for this target style audience, thankfully for him this rock exposure and his refusal to"die" as a standards cover artist may keep him around. ... plus he's literally gay. ... that's the ONLY thing saving GAGA at the moment. ... blatant pandering to a gay crowd. Her last album was shit. Right down to Jeff Koons (who doesn't even create his artwork, it's designed then he has others compose it) Oh right. .. cons For sheer brutality, his audience may contain the occasional athlete or fighter but those are few and far between FREDDIE fans PRO capitalize his name in comparison probably number in the tens of millions (really. People keep f***ing regardless of depleting resources) Warriors, influential, fighters, athletes etc in virtually every language ARE FOOTBALL FANS (futbol riot anyone? ) Know how to bludgeon (see above) Freddie fans CON some are effeminate and can't fight MANY are just as old as Brian and Roger *but. ..... many are gun owners RESULT? CLEARLY, Freddie fans win by multitudes and power, as well as influence. It's a no brainer. They're tougher as well. I'd like to see that fight. It'd be better than shit like that movie 300I fit into the Freddie fan oldster category, but I can fight with the best! |
| flash00. 20.06.2014 23:32 |
Well said!! i cringed watching that gerry wrote: great glad you had a nice time but.... have you ever seen Queen with Freddie Mercury? If you thought lambert was great then you would have been blown away watching Freddie on stage. Lambert is just a singer, Freddie is a rock legend and the greatest showman ever! |
| gerry 21.06.2014 05:05 |
I was just thinking, Adam Lambert has never ever performed in stadiums as big as what Queen are used too and he has no experience of getting the crowds to eat out of his hands like Freddie was the master doing that one! So i feel Brian & Roger are very wrong for taking Lambert on board, and when i see in the press that Lambert has been branded the replacement lead vocalist to replace un-comparable Freddie Mercury it gets me so so annoyed. May & Taylor are kidding them selves if they think they can pull this one off, because i am not a mug, we all know Lambert is pretty awful singing the back Queen catalogue, i mean christ nobody at Mercurys tribute concert could sing Queens back catalogue, the closest been George Michael, but the rest did not have any charisma to pull it off what Fred had. |
| Vocal harmony 21.06.2014 09:23 |
gerry wrote: I was just thinking, Adam Lambert has never ever performed in stadiums as big as what Queen are used too and he has no experience of getting the crowds to eat out of his hands like Freddie was the master doing that one! So i feel Brian & Roger are very wrong for taking Lambert on board, and when i see in the press that Lambert has been branded the replacement lead vocalist to replace un-comparable Freddie Mercury it gets me so so annoyed. Not quite true. One of the biggest audiences Queen have played to was in 2012 with Adam Lambert. Up until Hyde Park Queen had never played to a huge audience, and wouldn't again until a few years later. From the mid/late 70's most Queen tours played to arenas. So really there is very little difference in what they are doing with AL and what they did on most tours with Freddie. You have to start somewhere, when Queen played Hyde park, Freddie didn't have the same ability that came later. If you watch AL he has some degree of control and showmanship in Chicago. Yes Freddie became/was a true master of the art and you're right no one comes close |
| Marcos Napier 22.06.2014 22:50 |
You have to start somewhere, when Queen played Hyde park, Freddie didn't have the same ability that came later. If you watch AL he has some degree of control and showmanship in Chicago.If we want to talk numbers, ok, fine. How many people attended the Hyde Park, and how many in Chicago? What do you mean by "control"? Well at least you've said "some degree" and not "full control"... and for a band to have a large audience like Queen had for a lot of its career (the Morumbi stadium and Rock in Rio and Knebworth were audience records for a while...) it first must caught attention of these people by doing something these 10k/50k/100k people like to see. I doubt that Adam could have a concert of his own - not festivals! - that could gather that many people, just for him, as talented as he might be, as much showmanship as he might have. The first video I watched of Chicago (out of curiosity, I must confess - I was actually looking forward to see the Live Kills performance) was some test of the live feed, which captures the 3 or so minutes before the concert. The first thing that caught my attention was the size of the venue and the size of the stage itself. I was like "wow it's really downsized". Then I saw some videos and immediately realized why. Lambert is just a fabricated "idol" (pun intended), he learned most of his business while in the eye of the hurricane. Does he have (some) talent? Maybe. Does he have a good voice? For certain things, yes (Broadway, perhaps?). But worse than the guy can be are his fans attitudes, trying to justificate anything with "he is the best" or "Freddie was gay too" comments inserted into random statements. Can't they just accept that most of us Queen fans are saying is that he (like anybody else) isn't the right guy for Queen and it is looking like a pastiche? Let him show his talent, but not in Queen, please. It's not a test lab. |
| Doga 22.06.2014 22:59 |
This is boring. Now i want to know who will win in a fight between Godzilla and Predator. Discuss. |
| matt z 23.06.2014 01:28 |
Predator had a space machine, countless numbers of weapons and military experience; supposing s/he also had plated armor when going into battle and a knowledge of the terrain, I believe predator would have a good chance of outwitting a giant lizard brain with predatory instinct rather than tactical intelligence. You must also factor in a method of piercing Godzilla 's thick reptilian skin. Supposing predator could administer a serum or agent to induce a heart attack, my money is on Predator. .. But ONLY if it's unrestricted terrain. The downfall of Predator would be one swift hit, kick, or fire breath. It's agility and brains versus enormous power. Still placing my bet on Predator. .. But of course I have no way to properly justificate my assessment of the contest Something else to keep in mind. To my knowledge, Godzilla has no proper way to defend against a creature that would take refuge on its head. Tiny arms, slow pace. .... I suppose it could try to roll on the ground or run it's head through a building, or take a deep sea dive. |
| gerry 23.06.2014 08:52 |
Marcus: yeah you hit the nail on the head. Lambert does have a good voice but maybe in a production in the west end of London, not in the world stadiums with Queen pleeeeeeeeeze. The sooner this crap tour is over the better as far as i am concerned. |
| Vocal harmony 23.06.2014 11:02 |
Marcos Napier wrote:You have to start somewhere, when Queen played Hyde park, Freddie didn't have the same ability that came later. If you watch AL he has some degree of control and showmanship in Chicago.If we want to talk numbers, ok, fine. How many people attended the Hyde Park, and how many in Chicago? What do you mean by "control"? Well at least you've said "some degree" and not "full control"... and for a band to have a large audience like Queen had for a lot of its career (the Morumbi stadium and Rock in Rio and Knebworth were audience records for a while...) it first must caught attention of these people by doing something these 10k/50k/100k people like to see. I doubt that Adam could have a concert of his own - not festivals! - that could gather that many people, just for him, as talented as he might be, as much showmanship as he might have. The first video I watched of Chicago (out of curiosity, I must confess - I was actually looking forward to see the Live Kills performance) was some test of the live feed, which captures the 3 or so minutes before the concert. The first thing that caught my attention was the size of the venue and the size of the stage itself. I was like "wow it's really downsized". Then I saw some videos and immediately realized why. Lambert is just a fabricated "idol" (pun intended), he learned most of his business while in the eye of the hurricane. Does he have (some) talent? Maybe. Does he have a good voice? For certain things, yes (Broadway, perhaps?). But worse than the guy can be are his fans attitudes, trying to justificate anything with "he is the best" or "Freddie was gay too" comments inserted into random statements. Can't they just accept that most of us Queen fans are saying is that he (like anybody else) isn't the right guy for Queen and it is looking like a pastiche? Let him show his talent, but not in Queen, please. It's not a test lab. |
| Vocal harmony 23.06.2014 11:17 |
The post you have quoted from was a reply to Gerry who had questioned if AL had played to the size of audiences FM had. To answer your question about Hyde Park. 120,000 although some reports claim 150 or even 250.000 The biggest audience Queen have played to is 500,000 in Kiev with Lambert in 2012. Yes during the 80's they played some huge open air shows, but they played more shows, and over a longer period of time, in indoor arenas. Capacity of arenas differs greatly from city to city, but normally between 9,000 and 25,000. The Chicago show was a 23,000 seat venue I'm some what puzzled by your believe that the current production is scaled down. The stage is 80ft x 40ft the widest set that will fit into most arenas. And certainly bigger than The Game tour and Hot space tour stages. The walkway and B stage are the largest they've used and the lighting rig is the biggest they've toured with since the 80's. Scaled down? No! AL control of the audience doesn't , and never will, match Freddies, but he doesn't look lost fronting a big show and gained positive responses from the audience. |
| someonewholikesadam 23.06.2014 11:43 |
Doga wrote: This is boring. Now i want to know who will win in a fight between Godzilla and Predator. Discuss.Can we please have a subforum for this topic? Maybe Godzilla Gay or something like that? |
| gerry 23.06.2014 11:58 |
Adam Lambert would certainly not fill the stadiums and arenas on his own i am sure about that one! The sell outs dates are due to a mixture of Queen fans and girlies who idolize adam like One direction. |
| Vocal harmony 23.06.2014 15:03 |
gerry wrote: Adam Lambert would certainly not fill the stadiums and arenas on his own i am sure about that one! The sell outs dates are due to a mixture of Queen fans and girlies who idolize adam like One direction.Very true. But neither would BM or RT on their own as solo artists, like many members of bands who perform outside of the band line up. Remember as a solo artist Freddie didn't have the selling power of Queen, so had he toured at the time of Mr Bad Guy the chances are that he also wouldn't have sold out the venues Queen did. |
| matt z 23.06.2014 20:49 |
Hmm. .. I thought Godzilla vs Predator was a nice tangent. |
| gerry 24.06.2014 04:35 |
yes i know each Queen member on there own merits would not fill stadiums out right like the original Queen line up did. Thing is the Magic has vanished from any live Queen show now and as much as Taylor & May push ahead they aint going to be magical ever again. Its like baking a christmas cake, if there is certain ingredients missing, we know straight away when we taste it, that there is something missing and that is the same for Queen now! In Queens case there 2 vital ingredients are Freddie Mercury & John Deacon! |
| Vocal harmony 24.06.2014 06:37 |
Agreed. What they created in the 70's and 80's as a live band is untouchable. I don't think anyone in their right mind would claim that those days have returned because of AL. But that said, the songs and the people who were in part responsible for creating them live on. And as these first dates have proved there is an audience who still want to remember, or maybe relive or maybe just find a little of those glory days. BM and RT have never tried to find a sound alike singer, because that really would be saying to the world, hey look this still sounds the same. They are out there bringing something of the Queen experience to those who want to part of it. As long as people do, then that's reason enough to be out there playing. Yes there are plenty of others who wouldn't be interested. But I really don't think that makes Queen + AL a bad thing. It's just never going to be as good as the original. |
| gerry 24.06.2014 07:28 |
Sure i understand and respect Brian & Roger for wanting to try and get there music across to younger audiences but we did not see "The Beatles" go on tour after Lennon passed away and yet they are still popular as they ever were! I know Queen can do what they want when they want, but for the older Queen generations this will not be popular! why would the older fans want to attend a Queen gig now when they have witnessed 4 rock gods at wembley arena on fire and wowing there audiences? As Brian said in an interview 3 months ago, if you do not like what we are doing now then "thanks and goodbye" i thought that was a bit cheeky considering all the ardent Queen fans made him a millionaire over the years. They always say the customer is always right though Bri. |
| Doga 24.06.2014 08:01 |
gerry wrote: Sure i understand and respect Brian & Roger for wanting to try and get there music across to younger audiences but we did not see "The Beatles" go on tour after Lennon passed away and yet they are still popular as they ever were! I know Queen can do what they want when they want, but for the older Queen generations this will not be popular! why would the older fans want to attend a Queen gig now when they have witnessed 4 rock gods at wembley arena on fire and wowing there audiences? As Brian said in an interview 3 months ago, if you do not like what we are doing now then "thanks and goodbye" i thought that was a bit cheeky considering all the ardent Queen fans made him a millionaire over the years. They always say the customer is always right though Bri.No. Godzilla or Predator. Choose one |
| gerry 24.06.2014 11:02 |
you mean godzilla is freddie and predator is lambert? well i would chose godzilla! |
| Day dop 24.06.2014 13:45 |
Forget Freddie for mo.... What's the difference with Lambert's voice and John Lennon's? Lennon's has character. Lambert's hasn't. Lambert has a voice that hits the notes, but that's about it. Or another comparison - Lenny Kravitz. He's got a pretty decent rock voice. Lambert just doesn't cut it as a rock singer. As a make-do voice; a vehicle for the sounds to be heard again, yes. But it's just not rock n roll. Cabaret, yes, rock n roll, no. |
| Vocal harmony 25.06.2014 06:26 |
gerry wrote: Sure i understand and respect Brian & Roger for wanting to try and get there music across to younger audiences but we did not see "The Beatles" go on tour after Lennon passed away and yet they are still popular as they ever were! I know Queen can do what they want when they want, but for the older Queen generations this will not be popular! why would the older fans want to attend a Queen gig now when they have witnessed 4 rock gods at wembley arena on fire and wowing there audiences?Lennon was killed 10 years after the Beatles officially split. They has no wish to work together. Remember Queen never split. There are older fans going to these shows. some still enjoy the live experience. Sure there are some younger fans who never got the chance to see the band back in the day, and some AL fans who may just be there for AL but at the end of the night might just have been turned into Queen fans |
| Day dop 25.06.2014 09:14 |
Vocal harmony wrote:I think it's fair to say John Deacon split from the band, or left, whichever way you wanna put it.gerry wrote: Sure i understand and respect Brian & Roger for wanting to try and get there music across to younger audiences but we did not see "The Beatles" go on tour after Lennon passed away and yet they are still popular as they ever were! I know Queen can do what they want when they want, but for the older Queen generations this will not be popular! why would the older fans want to attend a Queen gig now when they have witnessed 4 rock gods at wembley arena on fire and wowing there audiences?Lennon was killed 10 years after the Beatles officially split. They has no wish to work together. Remember Queen never split. There are older fans going to these shows. some still enjoy the live experience. Sure there are some younger fans who never got the chance to see the band back in the day, and some AL fans who may just be there for AL but at the end of the night might just have been turned into Queen fans "Queen wouldn't be Queen if one of us left the band, or if we did things differently." - Roger Taylor (Modern Drummer interview 1984). |
| Vocal harmony 25.06.2014 10:16 |
Day dop wrote:Vocal harmony wrote:gerry wrote:[/ I think it's fair to say John Deacon split from the band, or left, whichever way you wanna put it. "Queen wouldn't be Queen if one of us left the band, or if we did things differently." - Roger Taylor (Modern Drummer interview 1984).Yes JD left, but the band never made an announcement saying they had split. If JD, as with any member of any band, wishes to leave it's up to him. |
| Day dop 25.06.2014 10:53 |
Of course it was up to Deacon, that goes without saying. He still left the band though, regardless of an official announcement or not. So is it Queen now? Not really. It's 50 percent of Queen, with another singer. I don't recall Freddie saying that, not disputing that he did though. Looking back at the last 23 years, the only studio album with another singer they've released was Cosmos Rocks, which didn't go down too well. Now they've found yet another singer that, whilst hardly in the same league as Freddie, he hits the notes, it's quite late in the day for May and Taylor being the age they are. This may well be their last tour. So I wouldn't say Freddie was necessarily right there to say they could easily carry on. History's shown us the opposite. |
| Day dop 25.06.2014 10:54 |
In saying that, what's going on now may well bring younger people into the Queen fan base . But to my mind, despite going to see the show back in 2012 and enjoying it at the time, somehow, there does seem to be something to it that cheapens the Queen legacy. I guess it's the idea of a cabaret style singer from pop idol now being part of the attraction of one of the most original, talented and greatest rock bands of all time. That some of the Lambert fans try to put him on the same level as Freddie, adds insult to injury. I think that's possibly what gets to a lot of long-term fans who've invested their time and money into the band over all the years. |
| Day dop 25.06.2014 10:54 |
Vocal harmony wrote "Yes we can like or dislike, but judging by ticket sales plenty like what happening." Judging also by the comments all over the internet, plenty don't too. I'd even go as far to say there's plenty more that don't like it than do. |
| gerry 25.06.2014 12:05 |
Yeah Brian & Roger will already know they have alienated most of there long term fans and they must be pretty nervous about going on the road with a guy that is barely known apart from the united states! Yes they have made what was once a very highly regarded rock outfit now look shit, thanks to Dr. May with his bad ideas! They should have been more choosy who they took on board. Just leave lambert to get on with his own failing career, Lambert knows only too well that if he latches on to Queen he will get the credit. So basically May & Taylor will end up getting back stabbed, and serves them right! |
| Day dop 25.06.2014 12:16 |
gerry wrote: Yeah Brian & Roger will already know they have alienated most of there long term fans and they must be pretty nervous about going on the road with a guy that is barely known apart from the united states!Baring in mind what you said there, about Lambert/the states, maybe it's also a somewhat calculated attempt at winning it back. |
| gerry 25.06.2014 12:46 |
Queen lost Americas respect when the video for "i want to break free" got released over there for they just didnt get it! We all know it was just a bit of harmless fun and freddie always liked to take the mickey, and we loved him for that, but the states, were offended and Queen went tits up! Now what difference does it make now Lamberts in charge, nothing has changed, he is a gay guy like Freddie and more outrageous and i know we have come along way over the past 25 years with gay rights and acceptance but america is a pretty aggressive country where gay performers are concerned so i wonder how lambert goes down there? |
| Day dop 25.06.2014 13:05 |
Yeah, they were a bit dumb when it came to I want to break free. I think the aggression would've lessened enough to make a significant amount of difference within the last 30 years, especially with the younger generations. And he does seem to be going down alright so far with those who've attended. I wouldn't say Lambert's more outrageous than Freddie was though. |
| Your Fairy King 25.06.2014 16:42 |
In five years when May and Taylor tour with a new singer, they will publicly state that touring with Lambert was a mistake just as they've done with Rodgers. |
| Zamidoo 25.06.2014 17:51 |
I think it's great that they're doing it, really. Comparing Adam Lambert with Freddie Mercury is a bit ridiculous, but it's probably introducing a whole generation of people to listen to 1971-1991 Queen, if for no other reason than to compare for themselves. Who knows - maybe that is partly the purpose. I don't see Adam Lambert as similar to Freddie Mercury in his singing style, and I can't understand where this started - it's like comparing a cover band to the band they're covering. One of the greatest frontmen of rock of all time (I say 'one of' not because I don't believe he was the greatest, but because it isn't undisputed) can only be compared with other great frontmen of rock, not some guy, as good a singer as he may be in his own right, who happens to sing some of his songs. Whether you like what Brian and Roger are doing is another matter, but how did this tour get turned into a 'Lambert vs Mercury' thing? It's a bit unfair, as one of them is dead, and the other is competing with a legend. |
| gerry 26.06.2014 04:17 |
zamidoo: We have May & Taylor to blame for all travesty with Adam Lambert, Brian got carried away and thought Mmmmmm he should be Queens new lead singer yeah!!! Not admitting to anyone than Lambert is well and truly on board, we all know May thinks he has rescued what was once the end of Queen when freddie sadly died in 1991. Well i would rather May & Taylor did not turn Queen into some cheap whore taking anyone on to sing Queens back catalogue. Rather than flog a dead horse please leave Queens majestic legacy to sit aside with gems like The Beatles, and Jimi Hendrix. By the way Freddie is "the" greatest front man ever in the history of rock n roll. He is and always will be un-touchable for his singing abilities and stylish polished performances on stage, strutting around Brian May including ballet twists and turns mashed up with been a macho man! Lambert is chicken feed in comparison. |
| gerry 26.06.2014 11:37 |
just seen a short video clip on Brian Mays web site of last weeks chicago gig and they open with "Now im Here" and Lambert is terrible, there is no chemistry on that stage and it feels very empty and wrong. Lambert has no energy and charisma like Freddie. What a waste of money seeing that loser in concert YUK! |
| Holly2003 26.06.2014 12:12 |
I agree. When I heard this it confirmed for me that AL is not a rock singer. In fairness, he is much better on big diva-friendly songs like WWTLF. But you have to blame Brian & Rog a bit: they had Paul Rodgers singing IWTBF & AOBTD -- songs unsuitable for Rodgers, when he would've been great singing songs like KYA and It's Late. Now they have AL singing rock songs unsuitable for his theatrical voice. It's like Brian claiming Kerry Ellis is a rock chick: dream on Brian.
gerry wrote: just seen a short video clip on Brian Mays web site of last weeks chicago gig and they open with "Now im Here" and Lambert is terrible, there is no chemistry on that stage and it feels very empty and wrong. Lambert has no energy and charisma like Freddie. What a waste of money seeing that loser in concert YUK! |
| gerry 26.06.2014 12:32 |
when you were a kid do you remember having an ice pop, and how tasty is was? Then..... the flavour ran out and all you could taste was just ice yeah..... well that is how Queen are with adam lambert, Freddie was that tasty ice pop, and lambert is the dregs of the ice with no flavour! i think that is it basically in a nut shell. |