| marc.s 08.03.2014 09:44 |
Sheer Heart Attack is my joint favorite Queen album. I think it's when everything fell into place. Everything seemed to gel from the songwriting to the production and performance. Not to mention the sequencing is perfection in my opinion. The Beatles before Revolver were fantastic but after they were on a totally different plane. this led to Strawberry Fields, Penny Lane, Pepper etc In my opinion the same thing happened to Queen, Sheer Heart Attack became the template for the future. The springboard for Opera and Races and without doubt the defining crossroads moment. Queen 2 had done well but maybe not as well as it maybe was expected, and it was make or break. And the pressure was on. Brian May's illness was also an obstacle but out of adversity came what I consider to be a work of art. Thoughts ? |
| The Real Wizard 08.03.2014 10:41 |
That's a great analysis of the situation... although I'd say SHA was more like their Rubber Soul. There was a huge development and maturity shown by 1965. As amazing as the first three Queen albums were, they were developmental. Everything came together on ANATO, and it was perfection. |
| Vocal harmony 08.03.2014 10:47 |
marc.s wrote: Queen 2 had done well but maybe not as well as it maybe was expected, and it was make or break. And the pressure was on. Brian May's illness was also an obstacle but out of adversity came what I consider to be a work of art. Thoughts ?I can see what your driving at, however BM and TR have indicated a similar situation with ANATO and Classic Rock. Magazine have said the same about Queen 2 but without the Beatles Revolver being something to draw a parallel too. The situation with SHA and DM's illness must have put pressure on them to get the album written, recorded and released. But ANATO was done during a period of financial uncertainty and a management change. Queen 2 seems to be an album that they were very happy with and one that contained their first top 10 single and so brought their music to a wider audience than the first. Maybe that stepping stone moment occurred over those three albums rather than just one. |
| brENsKi 08.03.2014 11:07 |
i agree in part. but Rubber Soul is a better comparison as that was the beatles transition. queen II was queen's game changer tho, not SHA |
| MadTheSwine73 08.03.2014 15:57 |
I think everyone can agree that ANATO was Queen's Sgt. Pepper. Not necessarily because of the awesomeness factor (which is present in both albums), but the fact that both bands were kind of "fading away" at that point, more personally than publicly. Then, those albums changed it. For a quick little analysis, Queen (the debut album) would be like With The Beatles in the sense that it's all great material, but still not the full potential for either group. Queen II, I would say, would be more of a Revolver than SHA. Although it's not chronological, it's more of the turning point in the band's creative career. SHA would be more of a Help!/Rubber Soul type album, in the sense that it was when they were truly maturing into the artists that they could be. ADATR would be Magical Mystery Tour, because it's a really fun album, and both have some strange elements. |
| marc.s 08.03.2014 18:57 |
The Real Wizard wrote: That's a great analysis of the situation... although I'd say SHA was more like their Rubber Soul. There was a huge development and maturity shown by 1965. As amazing as the first three Queen albums were, they were developmental. Everything came together on ANATO, and it was perfection.Interesting pov's all you guys, its very interesting that a couple of you state Rubber Soul as a better parallel to SHA. I can see where you're coming from and I feel Rubber Soul was indeed a transitional piece for The Beatles, part of it was still in the Help camp with more acoustic sounding stuff and then the more out there tracks like DMC and The Word but for me personally the Revolver parallel works in my mind because everything after it wasn't such a Quantum Leap, I couldn't imagine Pepper coming after RS, likewise I can't imagine ANATO coming after QUEEN 2. Revolver for The Beatles allowed for the eclecticism that followed, same too for Queen with SHA. And of course there were different styles for both bands before SHA and REVOLVER but these two albums for the respective bands blended it into a cohesive whole and both became the touchstone for everything that came after. I love reading differences of opinion so keep em coming :) |
| Sebastian 09.03.2014 05:08 |
Despite the chronological plot-hole, I also think II is Queen's Revolver and SHA is Queen's RS. The parallel extends to the way how (IMO) Revolver is over-rated compared to RS and QII is over-rated compared to SHA. The four of them are phenomenal albums, though. |
| brENsKi 09.03.2014 05:16 |
marc.s wrote:I can see where you're coming from and I feel Rubber Soul was indeed a transitional piece for The Beatles, part of it was still in the Help camp with more acoustic sounding stuff and then the more out there tracks like DMC and The Word but for me personally the Revolver parallel works in my mind because everything after it wasn't such a Quantum Leap, I couldn't imagine Pepper coming after RS, likewise I can't imagine ANATO coming after QUEEN 2.Revolver for The Beatles allowed for the eclecticism that followed, same too for Queen with SHA. And of course there were different styles for both bands before SHA and REVOLVER but these two albums for the respective bands blended it into a cohesive whole and both became the touchstone for everything that came after. I love reading differences of opinion so keep em coming :) Revolver WAS eclectic - completely - what followed was merely gradual development of a theme. I don't get WHY you couldn't see Opera following II...I can. The albums mirror each other quite well. MOTBQ has been discussed and agreed many times to be an embryonic bo rhap Nevermore = Love of My life Fairy Fella does have some similarities to Seaside FHLI is a nice pastiche of the beach boys - freddie developed the pastiche idea further on opera with Lazing and Seaside Rendezvous Remove the "oh-oh children can yous" out of Prophet Song, and it's a natural follow on from Father to Son Roger's IILWMC is him just doing what he did before - MTRNR, Loser & Tenement (nothing new) White Queen - a Brian ballad - '39 - a Brian folk ballad and finally, Brian's Procession = God save The Queen - all he did was take the same idea and close the Lp with it instead of using it as an opener...because Procession by definition is to "go before" something, and GSTQ used to be played on TV in those days at the end of the evening's broadcasts = so it got stuck at the end of the album. the only thing missing off II is a JD track. |
| marc.s 09.03.2014 10:23 |
brENsKi wrote:Ah I must admit I'd not looked at it from that angle , intriguing how we all see things in a certain way. I'll tell you why I personally can't imagine Opera coming after Queen 2, and that is the sense of fantasy I get from Queen 2 which i feel isn't there with Opera.marc.s wrote:Revolver WAS eclectic - completely - what followed was merely gradual development of a theme. I don't get WHY you couldn't see Opera following II...I can. The albums mirror each other quite well. MOTBQ has been discussed and agreed many times to be an embryonic bo rhap Nevermore = Love of My life Fairy Fella does have some similarities to Seaside FHLI is a nice pastiche of the beach boys - freddie developed the pastiche idea further on opera with Lazing and Seaside Rendezvous Remove the "oh-oh children can yous" out of Prophet Song, and it's a natural follow on from Father to Son Roger's IILWMC is him just doing what he did before - MTRNR, Loser & Tenement (nothing new) White Queen - a Brian ballad - '39 - a Brian folk ballad and finally, Brian's Procession = God save The Queen - all he did was take the same idea and close the Lp with it instead of using it as an opener...because Procession by definition is to "go before" something, and GSTQ used to be played on TV in those days at the end of the evening's broadcasts = so it got stuck at the end of the album. the only thing missing off II is a JD track.I can see where you're coming from and I feel Rubber Soul was indeed a transitional piece for The Beatles, part of it was still in the Help camp with more acoustic sounding stuff and then the more out there tracks like DMC and The Word but for me personally the Revolver parallel works in my mind because everything after it wasn't such a Quantum Leap, I couldn't imagine Pepper coming after RS, likewise I can't imagine ANATO coming after QUEEN 2.Revolver for The Beatles allowed for the eclecticism that followed, same too for Queen with SHA. And of course there were different styles for both bands before SHA and REVOLVER but these two albums for the respective bands blended it into a cohesive whole and both became the touchstone for everything that came after. I love reading differences of opinion so keep em coming :) Yes songs like the Prophets Song maybe has elements that are similar and possibly parts of Bohemian Rhapsody (acapella intro, opera section), but the "mama just killed a man" etc in BR just plants it more firmly in a real situation for me...but that's me and my perception. Songs like Death On Two Legs, Sweet Lady, IILWMC, YMBF, LOML have more the vibe of reality for me, whilst SR and LOASA have that sense of the fun but still real life fun not the fantasy feel i personally get from Nevermore , FFMS, and FHLI. And of course SSOR and OB err more on the fantastical side too. Having said that there are exceptions as LITE is more realty based. Actually I love Queen 2 but I do feel they had gone as far as they could in that direction. They must have felt the same because they came up with SHA in the same year. With SHA they did keep certain elements in LOTV, but certainly not enough to pull it from the path I feel was transitional. FOTW , NIH, BR, TF, ITLOTG revisited, and KQ have a more realistic vibe that was built on for Opera and beyond. And of course all the albums that came after had eclectic choices but most had more in common with SHA than with Q2 IMO. Ain't subjectivity grand ;) |
| Sebastian 09.03.2014 10:25 |
I see '39 as closer to SDOD than to WQ: a Brian ballad where he sang lead and recorded electric guitar choirs on top of strummed acoustic, and where the three founding band members sang wordless choir-like multi-tracked harmonies. Lyrically, they're also closer. |
| marc.s 09.03.2014 10:38 |
Sebastian wrote: Despite the chronological plot-hole, I also think II is Queen's Revolver and SHA is Queen's RS. The parallel extends to the way how (IMO) Revolver is over-rated compared to RS and QII is over-rated compared to SHA. The four of them are phenomenal albums, though.Agreed the four albums are phenomenal from possibly the best two bands in history IMO. Ok interesting you've got it reversed with Q2 as Queens Revolver. I can certainly see where you're coming from because Q2 was definitely a kitchen sink affair, I mean everything was thrown at it and it did create a brilliant and entertaining whole. It's just the fantasy element and overall vibe that I feel from the piece didn't seem to fully permeate the subsequent releases. Whereas the way SHA felt as a cohesive collection certainly in my eyes gave rise to the Queen style that would see them attain superstar and ultimately legendary status. |
| marc.s 09.03.2014 10:42 |
Sebastian wrote: I see '39 as closer to SDOD than to WQ: a Brian ballad where he sang lead and recorded electric guitar choirs on top of strummed acoustic, and where the three founding band members sang wordless choir-like multi-tracked harmonies. Lyrically, they're also closer.yes agreed they are closer. SDOD is an enjoyable song but 39 is vastly superior I think. |
| Sebastian 09.03.2014 13:02 |
I think they're both great. '39 is by far my favourite Queen song, though. |
| marc.s 09.03.2014 21:02 |
Sebastian wrote: I think they're both great. '39 is by far my favourite Queen song, though.hi Sebastian , I remember reading somewhere that Brian was going for a 50's sci if bmovie feel in the breaks with Rogers ethereal high vocs etc very cool. When Freddie did the lead live it became less serious IMO but I love both their delivery. Brian's was more apt for the studio version though. |
| brENsKi 11.03.2014 12:31 |
edit double post |
| brENsKi 11.03.2014 12:31 |
marc.s wrote: Songs like Death On Two Legs, Sweet Lady, IILWMC, YMBF, LOML have more the vibe of reality for me, whilst SR and LOASA have that sense of the fun but still real life fun not the fantasy feel i personally get from Nevermore , FFMS, and FHLI. And of course SSOR and OB err more on the fantastical side too. Having said that there are exceptions as LITE is more realty based. Actually I love Queen 2 but I do feel they had gone as far as they could in that direction. They must have felt the same because they came up with SHA in the same year.you need to be careful of stating something as fact when, it's only an opinion...that last sentence is a case to point - see note 3 below. 1. Nevermore,is not fantasy - it's a straight out love ballad FHLI - again has no fantasy feel - it's a beach boys/phil spector tribute/pastiche. Loser In the End/Some Day One day - have no fantasy feel MOTBQ - has been attributed as the embryo of Bo Rhap elsewhere. 2. some SHA tracks were natural progressions from QII and QI... Lily = Nevermore ITLOTG & ITLOTG(rev) deffo fit on QII Tenement = any Roger song previous to this Flick of the Wrist = very Liar Brighton Rock = Son & daughter/Blag 3. wasn't SHA recorded sooner than planned because Brian got ill and they cancelled a tour - so they needed to maintain their presence while they were off the road? also worth noting is that both albums have the same sales certification - which debunks the suggestion that there was any ulterior reason for rushing out another reason United States Gold 500,000 United Kingdom Platinum 300,000 |
| marc.s 12.03.2014 00:59 |
brENsKi wrote:hi brENsKi I did state it was my opinion quote "not the fantasy feel i personally get from Nevermore , FFMS, and FHLI" but I'll forgive ya for missing it.marc.s wrote: Songs like Death On Two Legs, Sweet Lady, IILWMC, YMBF, LOML have more the vibe of reality for me, whilst SR and LOASA have that sense of the fun but still real life fun not the fantasy feel i personally get from Nevermore , FFMS, and FHLI. And of course SSOR and OB err more on the fantastical side too. Having said that there are exceptions as LITE is more realty based. Actually I love Queen 2 but I do feel they had gone as far as they could in that direction. They must have felt the same because they came up with SHA in the same year.you need to be careful of stating something as fact when, it's only an opinion...that last sentence is a case to point - see note 3 below. 1. Nevermore,is not fantasy - it's a straight out love ballad FHLI - again has no fantasy feel - it's a beach boys/phil spector tribute/pastiche. Loser In the End/Some Day One day - have no fantasy feel MOTBQ - has been attributed as the embryo of Bo Rhap elsewhere. 2. some SHA tracks were natural progressions from QII and QI... Lily = Nevermore ITLOTG & ITLOTG(rev) deffo fit on QII Tenement = any Roger song previous to this Flick of the Wrist = very Liar Brighton Rock = Son & daughter/Blag 3. wasn't SHA recorded sooner than planned because Brian got ill and they cancelled a tour - so they needed to maintain their presence while they were off the road? also worth noting is that both albums have the same sales certification - which debunks the suggestion that there was any ulterior reason for rushing out another reason United States Gold 500,000 United Kingdom Platinum 300,000 Subjectivity is what makes forums like this great. |
| brENsKi 12.03.2014 12:12 |
marc.s wrote: hi brENsKi I did state it was my opinion quote "not the fantasy feel i personally get from Nevermore , FFMS, and FHLI" but I'll forgive ya for missing it. Subjectivity is what makes forums like this great. when i said this:brENsKi wrote:you need to be careful of stating something as fact when, it's only an opinion...that last sentence*** is a case to point - see note 3 below 3. wasn't SHA recorded sooner than planned because Brian got ill and they cancelled a tour - so they needed to maintain their presence while they were off the road?it was purely in reply to this quote of yours:marc.s wrote: I do feel they had gone as far as they could in that direction. They must have felt the same because they came up with SHA in the same year.***hope that clears up your missing it....i didn't miss anything :-) |
| Sebastian 12.03.2014 17:59 |
marc.s wrote: Subjectivity is what makes forums like this great.Certain things are subjective, others aren't. Is Bo Rhap better than STL? Is STL better than Bo Rhap? Are they equally good? Is the guitar solo better on Bo Rhap than on STL? Vice-versa? What about the drums? Piano? Lead vocals? Backing vocals? Bass? Rhythm guitar? Additional percussion? Production? Mixing? Mastering? Re-mastered versions? All of those are subjective. Now: which song amongst Bo Rhap and STL was released first? Which song's album version is longer? Which single sold more copies in America? Britain? West Germany? East Germany? Laos? Which lead vocal covers a larger range? Which backing vocal covers a larger range? Which required more bouncing on the multi-tracks? Which has more chords? More simultaneous superimpositions? All of those have a clear definite answer (which we may or may not know), not open to debate. |
| Mike G 12.03.2014 20:32 |
Sebastian wrote:I see you're still an idiot Sebastain, lolmarc.s wrote: Subjectivity is what makes forums like this great.Certain things are subjective, others aren't. Is Bo Rhap better than STL? Is STL better than Bo Rhap? Are they equally good? Is the guitar solo better on Bo Rhap than on STL? Vice-versa? What about the drums? Piano? Lead vocals? Backing vocals? Bass? Rhythm guitar? Additional percussion? Production? Mixing? Mastering? Re-mastered versions? All of those are subjective. Now: which song amongst Bo Rhap and STL was released first? Which song's album version is longer? Which single sold more copies in America? Britain? West Germany? East Germany? Laos? Which lead vocal covers a larger range? Which backing vocal covers a larger range? Which required more bouncing on the multi-tracks? Which has more chords? More simultaneous superimpositions? All of those have a clear definite answer (which we may or may not know), not open to debate. |
| Sebastian 13.03.2014 01:11 |
Mike G wrote: I see you're still an idiot Sebastain, lolNot really. 'Idiot' is a term for people whose IQ is 30 or below. Mine is above that, so I'm not an idiot. That, again, is not subjective. |
| marc.s 13.03.2014 03:33 |
brENsKi wrote:lol point taken I'll be more specific ;)marc.s wrote: hi brENsKi I did state it was my opinion quote "not the fantasy feel i personally get from Nevermore , FFMS, and FHLI" but I'll forgive ya for missing it. Subjectivity is what makes forums like this great. when i said this:brENsKi wrote:you need to be careful of stating something as fact when, it's only an opinion...that last sentence*** is a case to point - see note 3 below 3. wasn't SHA recorded sooner than planned because Brian got ill and they cancelled a tour - so they needed to maintain their presence while they were off the road?it was purely in reply to this quote of yours:marc.s wrote: I do feel they had gone as far as they could in that direction. They must have felt the same because they came up with SHA in the same year.***hope that clears up your missing it....i didn't miss anything :-) |
| matt z 13.03.2014 07:29 |
For he's Like in a jolly good fellow? FHLI? Oh right. ... funny how love is. Yeah they maintained signature styles and sounds up until JAZZ partially why it wasn't as strong. |
| marc.s 20.03.2014 06:33 |
matt z wrote: For he's Like in a jolly good fellow? FHLI? Oh right. ... funny how love is. Yeah they maintained signature styles and sounds up until JAZZ partially why it wasn't as strong.Still love Jazz though, it was all over the place but it was only the second Queen album I got upon release so I've gotta soft spot for it. Production is its biggest downfall. Roger plays some awesome drums but they get lost in the production;( IMO |
| brENsKi 20.03.2014 14:27 |
always liked Jazz. had a nice "Rubber Soul" feel to it. By that i mean 1. a dozen+ 3minute pop songs - all fairly instantly accessible. 2. a straight out of the gates speedy no: mustapha vs drive my car 3. a maudlin one: leaving home ain't easy vs nowhere man 4. a "little" experimentation: fun it/dreamers ball vs norwegian wood/girl 5. a couple of short n sweet ballads: jealousy/in only seven days vs michelle / in my life |
| The Real Wizard 20.03.2014 15:43 |
I can appreciate the comparison - but there is no song on Jazz that remotely compares to the beauty and longevity of In My Life. It's simply one of the greatest songs ever written. Maybe DSMN is comparable in longevity .. ? |
| brENsKi 20.03.2014 17:12 |
The Real Wizard wrote: I can appreciate the comparison - but there is no song on Jazz that remotely compares to the beauty and longevity of In My Life. It's simply one of the greatest songs ever written.this ^^^ the absolute perfect song, both in structure, arrangement, lyrics, sentiment, and melody.... also has the confounding nature of "sounding like a macca composition" while actually being (mostly) written by lennon. oh, and the GM bridge - fantastic. definitely one for my own funeral choice...along with green day - good riddance, and boston a man i'll never be |