| Doga 24.07.2013 04:31 |
I'm discovering this great band,never cared so much about them, but i was wrong, they are good . Made a compilation CD to put in the car Heartbreaker Thank You Dazed and Confused Over the Hills and Far Away Inmigrant Song The Battle of Evermore The Rain Song Stairway to Heaven Kashmir Achilles Last Stand In the Evening In the Light Good tracklist? Bad? What you guys think about the band? |
| john bodega 24.07.2013 09:08 |
I absolutely love Led Zeppelin as a live unit and as an overall sound, but fucking oddly enough - I'm probably only into about 1/10th of their songs, numerically speaking. The others I can take or leave. |
| MercuryArts 24.07.2013 13:28 |
Outstanding group! They are my 2nd favorite band ever. The power & energy the brought to both the studio recordings & the stage were unmatched by anyone except for Queen & The Who IMHO. And no, I don't want to start a debate on who else matched their prowless. They changed the way bands were treated & paid while touring. Before Zeppelin bands took a small percent of the income a show/tour would generate. By 1970 they were taking the lions share of the take. This was unheard of at the time & a lot of the credit goes to their manager Peter Grant. Like him or despise him, he took care of that band like he would his own son. For all his gruff toughness, when Bonzo passed he was devistaed & heartbroken & walked away from the business. Anyway, enough of that. I would suggest: How Many More Times, I Can't Quit You Babe, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You (one of the best examples of "Light & Shade"), The Lemon Song, Ramble On, Whole Lotta Love, Since I've Been Loving You (possibly Page's best solo ever), all of side 2 from Zep III, When The Leeve Breaks, The Crunge, No Quarter, The Ocean, In My Time Of Dying, Ten Years Gone, The Rover (killer opening), Bron-Yr-Aur, The Wanton Song (great unexpected show opener for the 1995 Page/Plant tour), Nobody's Fault But Mine, Hots On For Nowhere, Candy Store Rock, Tea For One, South Bound Suarez, Hot Dog, All My Love, I'm Gonna Crawl, Darlene, We're Gonna Groove, Wearing & Tearing. Some of you may agree, some may disagree but either way, you can't go wrong with any of these songs. Anyone have anything to add? My advice is to go & buy the 2003 Led Zeppelin Dvd release, clear 5 hours from your schedule & prepare to be blown away! |
| brENsKi 25.07.2013 11:33 |
my own personal zep-likes? ITTOD - despite Page's unreliability and general absence - i love this album - it's a nice close-out of the zep story with some typical zep variations in style. all of my love, in the evening, carouselambra, south bound suarez, hot dog all very good tracks with i'm gonna crawl and fool in the rain the standouts for me "physical" - is a flawless album. no need to discuss further. the first four albums 0 they never put a foot wrong - all excellent. there are tracks i always considered filler, that when i go to "skip" them - i stop and listen and hear stuff i never heard before. four commensurate musicians and songwriters - for the whole 12 years of the bands life - remained at the top of their game - Page's '79 absences apart. JPJ - not just an excellent bass player - he made the band tick and kept things together when outside events took hold. Bonzo - probably the best rock drummer ever Page - when on his game certainly in the top five guitarists Plant - i know the freddie fans will dissent loudly - but there are times when plants vocals are better - generally he's a top notch singer |
| MercuryArts 25.07.2013 12:51 |
Brenski summed it up perfectly. Even their "fillers" are head & shoulders above most other bands stand out tracks. It's easier to list songs that arent very good than it is to list all the good/great ones. |
| brENsKi 06.08.2013 16:45 |
some of the vocals in "fool in the rain" are simply amazing. but then, factor in the actual subject matter of "all of my love" (for those that don't know - google is your friend) and this really is the most unbelievably heartfelt/heartbroken song you will ever hear (even more so than Clapton's "Tears In Heaven") - makes these vocals even more impressive. but vocally, for me - as exceptional as those two are - there's little in the Zep catalogue (for me) that is sung as well as "I'm Gonna Crawl" - breathtaking and simply perfect....the final Zep track on the final Zep album is the perfect close-out to a a recording career that reached zenith early on - and stayed there until the very end. . enjoy! ps - a lesson for queen - in how NOT to sh*t on your own legacy - there has been NOTHING Zep-wise since 1980 that either embarrasses or shits on their past. msg to Dr May: "this is how to respect a legacy and maintain self-respect and dignity. |
| Lord Gaga 06.08.2013 20:31 |
Glad to see some love for In Through The Out Door, especially 'Fool In The Rain' and 'Carouselambra'. |
| inu-liger 07.08.2013 02:26 |
"ps - a lesson for queen - in how NOT to sh*t on your own legacy - there has been NOTHING Zep-wise since 1980 that either embarrasses or shits on their past. " Two words mate: LIVE AID |
| Thistle 07.08.2013 06:46 |
^ yeah, but after they realised they were shit, they didn't allow it to be released as an embarrassment lol. |
| brENsKi 07.08.2013 08:10 |
inu-liger wrote: "ps - a lesson for queen - in how NOT to sh*t on your own legacy - there has been NOTHING Zep-wise since 1980 that either embarrasses or shits on their past. " Two words mate: LIVE AIDyes, but that was a one-off charity gig. if you look at what they have done - product-wise since '80, there's nothing to be ashamed of...no shitty remixes, no crappy collaborations, no selling the soul for filthy lucre - being the best and maintaining some dignity must go hand in hand it seems? |
| The Real Wizard 11.08.2013 09:30 |
Errm, Page and Puff Daddy ,.. ? |
| john bodega 11.08.2013 11:29 |
Plant and Coca-Cola. (The amusement value of that clip is too high for him not to have taken the cheque, but still - by definition it's naff). |
| Vocal harmony 16.08.2013 21:19 |
The Atlantic records tribute concert they played was as bad as Live Aid. As far as the impact they had. Their first album owes so much to Truth by Jeff Beck, which came out a year before Led Zeppelin1, and sounds like a blue print for most of the Zep album, the rest was heavily "borrowed" from slightly obscure American blues artists who page was very into at the time. Bonham is always regarded as the best rock drummer ever. But that covers a very narrow field as he had problems trying to play anything that wasn't in 4/4. Their are plenty of drummers who can play better and in a more varied style than John Bonham, including his son Jason and Roger Taylor for that matter. Having said that I'm a huge fan of the albums 4 through to In Through The Out Door |
| brENsKi 17.08.2013 06:22 |
ouch^^ wasn't everything 60-70s derivative of either rock n roll or the blues? as for Bonham's versatility - yeah there may have been time/signature issues (allegedly) but he had such a varied style and was way ahead of his time - listen to songs like immigrant song/gallows pole/d'yer maker/custard pie/kashmir/nfbm/southbound suarez/ carouselambra and in the evening there's some very interesting and varied styles there |
| Vocal harmony 17.08.2013 10:42 |
I don't disagree with 60's and 70's music being derivative of Rock n'roll and the blues. But if you listen to the Truth album Rod Stewart does so many of the things, vocally, that plant then did. Also the way Becks rhythm playing locks in with the drums is very Page like, quite a few of the songs sound very like they belong on Zep1. On a number of other songs Page Blatantly rips of lesser known old black blues guys. I agree with your song choices too, but the truth is that Bonham nicked a lot of ideas from Gene Krupa and other big band drummers from the 20's and 30's. And as good as he was within Zeppelin he couldn't have joined any of Zappa's touring bands from 68 to 88 for instance. Or Jammed with Queen on Im In Love with My Car or the Police on Walking on The Moon or Rush Vital Signs. The list goes on. . . . . . I guess what I'm driving at is. led Zeppelin best band in the world in the 70's? Quite possibly. John Bonham best drummer? I'm sorry I can't buy into that, though I think he was brilliant at what he did. |
| The Real Wizard 17.08.2013 12:14 |
"Who's the best" contests are just so pointless because there are far too many criteria to consider. But indeed, whoever the best is - it ain't Bonham. |
| Thistle 17.08.2013 16:42 |
The Real Wizard wrote: "Who's the best" contests are just so pointless because there are far too many criteria to consider. But indeed, whoever the best is - it ain't Bonham.I agree with Brenski RE the varied styles, but I also agree with this, Bob: we all KNOW it's Roger Taylor. From Duran Duran :p Seriously, though - it's Rog! |
| brENsKi 18.08.2013 04:21 |
the problem with accessing who's best - is what characteristics are deemed crucial by one are less important to another. that's why you'll get the same old lists cropping up including (in no particular order) baker, moon, peart, bonham, aldridge, powell, rich, mitchell, appice and hawkins Bonham (god bless him - I live in his home town) - has the distinct advantage of the "Freddie Factor" or as Debbie Harry put it - "die young, stay pretty" look at the early death rock stars - lennon, cobain, hendrix, mercury, morrison, elvis, scott, and bonham - they're deities that can do no wrong because they were taken from us BEFORE they had a chance to get old and embarrassing. even if the entire world arrived at agreement as to the worlds greatest rock drummer the one key question in all of this: prior to the announcement...who would play the drum roll? |
| Thistle 18.08.2013 08:14 |
brENsKi wrote: even if the entire world arrived at agreement as to the worlds greatest rock drummer the one key question in all of this: prior to the announcement...who would play the drum roll?Little Drummer Boy. Ba rumpa pum pum..... |
| AssDudeRule 01.09.2013 21:09 |
Any one dare to share thoughts on Bonham Vs Roger? I almost feel a bit naive saying Roger is superior, but he has his moments. Bonham is more consistent and has some amazing skills. I always found Rogers best work to be on "sheer heart attack". But in saying that, even Rog has been quoted as saying Bonham was the best drummer. How ever, isn't Roger a musician in the sense that he more than just a drummer? Eg: Chad Smith. Amazing drummer but where are his contributions to the peppers? |
| The Real Wizard 02.09.2013 11:45 |
AssDudeRule wrote: Any one dare to share thoughts on Bonham Vs Roger?They're certainly not far apart in technical ability on the drums, but being in band with Freddie Mercury casts a shadow over you. Never mind Roger Taylor, I'd still argue that Brian May doesn't get his due. Outside of guitarists' circles and Queen fans, Brian is rarely mentioned alongside Hendrix, Page, Clapton, Eddie, etc. But he is most certainly in that elite club of innovation and creativity. Look at it this way - Bonham was a drummer, while Roger was (and still is) a drummer, singer, guitarist, pianist and songwriter. All of which he is excellent at. So I pick Roger. |
| brENsKi 02.09.2013 13:31 |
of course Roger beats Bonzo ^^^...on keyboard, guitars and vocals...but THIS particulalr pissing contest was about drums
and Bonzo wins that one hands down.
how many rock standards is Roger's drumming known for?
(maybe a few drum machines ....GaGa, etc)
but JB's drumming is known the world over on over a dozen Zep classics....
Rock n Roll, Black Dog, Kashmir, Immigrant Song, Whole Lotta Love, When The Levee breaks, Heartbreaker, Good Times Bad Times, to name a few
The Real Wizard wrote:Errm, Page and Puff Daddy ,.. ? Zebonka12 wrote:Plant and Coca-Cola..alas - you BOTH missed the point. The Zep name was not used - so no disrespecting of the brand or label - as opposed to what our "mad Dr - selling his (arse)soul for 30 pieces of silver to whatever shitty collaboration he can dredge up....HE used the queen name...that's the shitting on the legacy. Zep (to my knowledge) didn't do that with their band name |
| Vocal harmony 02.09.2013 20:08 |
Bonham was amazing at what he did, but what he did was operate in a limited area. He had major issues with time signatures other than simple 4/4 patterns. Roger is a more capable player, a true musician and writer. |
| john bodega 04.09.2013 04:10 |
"alas - you BOTH missed the point" Actually, no, and in rebuttal I'd raise two other points. The Coke thing I mentioned related to a song that used Zeppelin samples - one can argue for or against his motivations for doing so (I actually think it's a funny story myself) but the connection is still there. And second - he's the Led Zeppelin guy. Not denigrating Plant's solo career here or anything (I like some of it), but that's just who he is. Any true separation of Plant and Zeppelin is an imagined one. You can't just dismiss it as a solo gig because it really wasn't. It invoked Zeppelin's legacy. If he'd done it with "Burning Down One Side", maybe you'd have a point. (Not saying that to be an asshole or anything, but I'll get to this in a minute). By extension, the Puff Daddy thing is even more of a Zeppelin connection. The only reasons that shitty track ever got talked about was the Godzilla movie, and the Zeppelin stuff it sampled. Again; Pagey was probably just doing what Plant did and regaining his legacy by doing what every other idiot had been doing for decades (sampling), but it's still a Led Zeppelin connection - still open to criticism, and still worthy of being called a dodgy move by the original artist. To be clear though, I don't think either the Godzilla or the Tall Cool One things are as bad as what Queen+ have gotten up to. But they are at least comparable. That Puff Daddy one especially, mainly because he's a shit musician and it was done for a shit movie. But yeah, no one's missing the point by bringing them up as examples. Puff Niggy and the Coke thing both dragged Zeppelin's legacy into the mix; whether or not they were as egregious or distasteful as what QPL gets up to is anyone's guess. I'd say no, myself. |
| john bodega 04.09.2013 04:19 |
"Roger is a more capable player, a true musician and writer" I don't really see them as existing on drastically different tiers. If you try to make it a technical ability argument, then there's players who (going by technique) would smoke them both. Saying Bonham was mostly limited to basic time signatures is meaningless when he was able to apply more advanced patterns to his playing than your average joker-calls-himself-the-drummer. I wouldn't out-and-out say that there's things Bonham did that Taylor couldn't, but the isolated tracks from both drummers definitely don't tell a story of huge disparity in talent. (Saying all of this as a very mediocre drummer who admires them both greatly for different reasons). |
| Vocal harmony 04.09.2013 13:07 |
Zebonka I agree. Bonham has always been one of my favourite drummers. But in answer to the question Bonham v Roger I would choose RT because I'd rather play in a band with a drummer who isn't stuck In one area. I'm in no way dissing John Bonham. Look at it another way, in the mid 70's RT could have played a gig with Zep. Yes it would have sounded different but their would be nothing in the set he couldn't play. However if JB walked on stage with Queen in 77 he couldn't have played I'm in Love With My Car or The Millionaire Waltz however he would have played an amazing It's Late. When comparing the ability of musicians a lot of it is down to taste. And how they do what they do. Satriani is a better player than Brian, but I'd rather listen to BM than JS. Doesn't mean I don't like Satch, I do. And yes in the world of Drummers any number of guys could leave RT and JB standing. |
| brENsKi 04.09.2013 13:31 |
we have the benefit of hindsight and RT's later stuff to bias the argument. bit of a disadvantage for JB really...dying and all that ...before the changes in musical styles really took hold... now we'll never know what he was capable of... i'll give you an example - i love randy rhoads' guitar playing - guy was fantastic....but we'll never know how great he coulda been ...a hanful of quiet riot playing and two "blizzard" albums would leave him unfairly compared to say, Brian or Jimmy page but (at the time of his death) he was going back to guitar school to learn how to play classical...Ozzy was said to be angry about it now, had he lived...how would we be comparing his portfolio now? |
| The Real Wizard 04.09.2013 22:12 |
Vocal harmony wrote: Satriani is a better player than Brian, but I'd rather listen to BM than JS.Me too. Satch has better chops, but it doesn't make him unequivocally a better player. Last Horizon is more expressive than Satch's entire catalogue combined, as far as I'm concerned. |
| thomasquinn 32989 05.09.2013 07:14 |
It's all a question of how you define "good". Bach's compositions are, on the whole, much more intricate, complex and (in his own time) innovative than any of the works of say, Brahms. But as far as creating an atmosphere and translating emotions into music goes, Brahms runs circles around Bach. I personally love musical impressionism (Debussy, Ravel, Rachmaninov and the likes), so I tend to prefer music by any of those guys over the classicism of Mozart, Haydn or Händel. But does that mean they are better? Or, conversely, are Mozart, Haydn and Händel better, and am I just wrong? No. There is no such thing as "objective" musical quality. You can come up with things like "A can play licks faster than B", "A uses more intricate harmonies than B" or "A uses extended techniques more often (or more proficiently) than B", but do any of those factual observations really mean anything? |
| The Real Wizard 05.09.2013 11:30 |
Without entering the void of nihilism, I'd have to say yes. People often like to define why they like things, and technical ability tends to be one of the culprits... even if they have no idea what they're talking about. On the topic of Zeppelin, two camps of people get Page completely wrong. Some think he's the best guitarist ever because he played fast, and others think he's awful because he often played sloppy. The reality is - there's so much more to Page than his chops, good or bad. He was an extremely expressive guitarist and a creative genius at his peak. Never mind his Zeppelin years, the director of Death Wish II said Page's soundtrack was the most professional score he's ever seen in his life. |
| brENsKi 09.09.2013 11:05 |
i know very little of the tech side of music. but i know what i like. for me it's pretty easy to say why i like something. it has to stand out - either individual elements or as a whole - it must have something that identifies it as different to the rest. this can be in any combination of facets - the writing, production, performance or arrangement. Zep does that. in their time, they sounded so different to the other bands around... i remember when the NWOHM arrived round about 78/79...and all those bands - chevy. xero, dark star, chainsaw, grim reaper, jameson raid, quartz, praying mantis, trespass, demon, angelwitch, cryer, raven, diamond head, white spirit and zillions more besides all sounded like some other band we already knew well...so they came and went....how many of them made it big? NONE...because there was nothing different about them |
| The Real Wizard 09.09.2013 15:30 |
What's NWOHM ? |
| brENsKi 09.09.2013 15:55 |
it was a briefly passing trend - and it was pretty much a European/British thing round about 78/79 New Wave Of Heavy Metal - the British part was abbreviated NWOBHM there were one or two big bands that came out of it; Lepps,Maiden etc and some medium-success bands - Saxon, Magnum etc but these generally were different - whereas the previous list i cited - every one of them sounded like a an already known band.. so as i said Zep worked (for me) because they were different to anything else around - they had something that made them unique |
| waunakonor 09.09.2013 21:05 |
brENsKi, I seem to remember you saying you only liked maybe 10 Zep songs plus In Through the Out Door. Did something change? Relatedly, I've come around to Kashmir quite a bit. My favorite song by the band is Achilles Last Stand. So beautiful. |
| brENsKi 10.09.2013 02:59 |
waunakonor wrote: brENsKi, I seem to remember you saying you only liked maybe 10 Zep songs plus In Through the Out Door. Did something change? Relatedly, I've come around to Kashmir quite a bit. My favorite song by the band is Achilles Last Stand. So beautiful.i appreciate them for what they are. unique and talented. most of what they do i'll never like. but i can recognise that it's top quality nonetheless. i did have a period of time in the 70s when i liked them quite a bit....but these days there are about a dozen zep songs that i like enough to say they'd be on my desert island couldn't live without collection....the rest - i can listen to it (great as it it) but it generally doesn't move/inspire me....hard to explain properly - but i think you get the distinction i'm making between "like" and "like essential" strange thing is.....queen have also been a lot like that to me lately.... |
| brENsKi 10.09.2013 05:20 |
Doga wrote: I'm discovering this great band,never cared so much about them, but i was wrong, they are good . Heartbreaker Good tracklist? Bad? What you guys think about the band?"heartbreaker" works better as a two-part with "livin' lovin' maid" my own personal essential list? good times, bad times babe i'm gonna leave you kashmir all of my love thank you ramble on gallows pole i'm gonna crawl when the levee breaks rain song fool in the rain south bound suarez |
| tomchristie22 10.09.2013 08:46 |
Babe I'm Gonna Leave You is just sublime, as is Ramble On's bass line. I can't say for sure if I have a limited appreciation for the band, song-wise, like others have expressed, as I've never really gotten around to listening through their whole catalog. I do like most of the stuff on their first four albums though, and I enjoy some of In Through The Out Door even though Plant's vocals just aren't that great there. I love some of Physical Graffiti - Trampled Under Foot is infectious, and I also quite like Wearing and Tearing off Coda. That's pretty much all I've heard, I really ought to get around the Houses of the Holy especially. |
| brENsKi 10.09.2013 12:10 |
if you think "babe i'm gonna leave you" is sublime, then give "i'm gonna crawl" [from ITTOD] a proper listen....now that really is sublime ps - turn it up loud for some amazing harmonics...the atmosphere in this song seems to create an aura all of it's own |