| Gianfrancesco 26.11.2011 09:03 |
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| MadTheSwine73 26.11.2011 10:31 |
More than Pi. |
| Haystacks Calhoun II 26.11.2011 11:54 |
Exactly 27.453678298 |
| rhyeking 26.11.2011 12:12 |
Aside from the leaked and released works in progress/demos/outtakes, like "Feelings, Feelings," "Silver Salmon," and "Dog With A Bone," I'd say not many. Probably less than an album's worth. First, let's define "songs." Do we mean completed or mostly-complete tracks, or are we talking fragments or backing tracks which hardly-finished lyrics? I think we've heard most of the nearly completed tracks. I think there are bits and pieces from all the sessions, though many probably from The Game and The Miracle periods, as many accounts say those were creative times for the band. That said, look what David Richard was able to do with "You Don't Fool Me," which is said to have been made out of virtually nothing. The real issue is whether what the fragments hold can be made into songs in their own right. With time and effort, I think they can be crafted into two or three complete tracks, maybe more. I'm guessing Queen's next album, if Roger and Brian proceed with it, will be a combination of re-backed unreleased\unheard tracks, similarly re-backed leaked tracks we know off, a few patchwork tracks made from the fragments and if we're lucky, a few new, wholly original new Brian & Roger tracks (with them singing lead). |
| Gianfrancesco 26.11.2011 12:28 |
rhyeking wrote: Aside from the leaked and released works in progress/demos/outtakes, like "Feelings, Feelings," "Silver Salmon," and "Dog With A Bone," I'd saynot many. Probably less than an album's worth. First, let's define "songs." Do we mean completed or mostly-complete tracks, or are we talking fragments or backing tracks which hardly-finished lyrics? I think we've heard most of the nearly completed tracks. I think there are bits and pieces from all the sessions, though many probably from The Game and The Miracle periods, as many accounts say those were creative times for the band. That said, look what David Richard was able to do with "You Don't Fool Me," which is said to have been made out of virtually nothing. The real issue is whether what the fragments hold can be made into songs in their own right. With time and effort, I think they can be crafted into two or three complete tracks, maybe more. I'm guessing Queen's next album, if Roger and Brian proceed with it, will be a combination of re-backed unreleased\unheard tracks, similarly re-backed leaked tracks we know off, a few patchwork tracks made from the fragments and if we're lucky, a few new, wholly original new Brian & Roger tracks (with them singing lead). Thank you so much Rhyeking! I'm agree with you! I'd like to hear songs like Assassin, Friends In Pain or Victory... ... ...but don't you find it strange that Roger recently said he didn't remember at all having worked on Dog With A Bone? |
| rhyeking 26.11.2011 13:07 |
I don't find it odd at all. The Miracle sessions were busy and productive, with the band completing 17 full tracks that we know of, numerous fragments that we know of and likely a bunch more bits and pieces in various states of completion. Plus, Roger was working with The Cross at the time, so after more than 20 years, I can believe sessions start to blur together and all he'd remember reliably would be the tracks on The Miracle album, which got the most attention. I also don't believe the track "Friends In Pain" exists or was ever even written. It seems to me to be a figment of a someone's imagination, possibly stemming from the belief that the two John Deacon/Freddie Mercury tracks from A Kind Of Magic might have originated as a single John song. I could be wrong, but do we have any concrete evidence it exists? |
| k-m 26.11.2011 18:22 |
Friends in Pain? Well, firstly that's a very cheesy title and secondly, it's the first time I hear it. But answering your question, God knows how many unheard songs they have in the vaults, but one thing is sure - all the best ones were put on Made In Heaven. So, I wouldn't hold my breath and keep in mind that the talk of a new album began after they signed up with Universal. Before this, the notion of putting a new Freddie album together was pretty much non-existent. Anyway, good luck to them. I await the "Days of Our Lives" DVD which seems good, really good. |
| MadTheSwine73 26.11.2011 19:28 |
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7723554710 5859548702 7908143562 4014517180 6246436267 9456127531 8134078330 3362542327 8394497538 2437205835 3114771199 2606381334 6776879695 9703098339 1307710987 0408591337 4641442822 7726346594 7047458784 7787201927 7152807317 6790770715 7213444730 6057007334 9243693113 8350493163 1284042512 1925651798 0694113528 0131470130 4781643788 5185290928 5452011658 3934196562 1349143415 9562586586 5570552690 4965209858 0338507224 2648293972 8584783163 0577775606 8887644624 8246857926 0395352773 4803048029 0058760758 2510474709 1643961362 6760449256 2742042083 2085661190 6254543372 1315359584 5068772460 2901618766 7952406163 4252257719 5429162991 9306455377 9914037340 4328752628 8896399587 9475729174 6426357455 540790914 5135711136 9410911939 3251910760 2082520261 8798531887 7058429725 9167781314 9699009019 2116971737 2784768472 6860849003 3770242429 1651300500 5168323364 3503895170 2989392233 4517220138 1280696501 1784408745 1960121228 5993716231 3017114448 4640903890 6449544400 6198690754 8516026327 5052983491 8740786680 8818338510 2283345085 0486082503 9302133219 7155184306 3545500766 8282949304 1377655279 3975175461 3953984683 3936383047 4611996653 8581538420 5685338621 8672523340 2830871123 2827892125 0771262946 3229563989 8989358211 6745627010 2183564622 0134967151 8819097303 8119800497 3407239610 3685406643 1939509790 1906996395 5245300545 0580685501 9567302292 1913933918 5680344903 9820595510 0226353536 1920419947 4553859381 0234395544 9597783779 0237421617 2711172364 3435439478 2218185286 2408514006 6604433258 8856986705 4315470696 5747458550 3323233421 0730154594 0516553790 6866273337 9958511562 5784322988 2737231989 8757141595 7811196358 3300594087 3068121602 8764962867 4460477464 9159950549 7374256269 0104903778 1986835938 1465741268 0492564879 8556145372 3478673303 9046883834 That's enough Pi for me. |
| paulosham 26.11.2011 20:00 |
Eleventeen |
| Gianfrancesco 26.11.2011 20:10 |
Ok :) Maybe you're right and that are just rumors about Friends In Pain! Do we have evidence about Assassin? |
| Gianfrancesco 26.11.2011 20:17 |
Actually in MIH there was just 3 unheard songs in '95...one of these moreover, completely "built" by David Richards... Friends In Pain is a song mentioned in many sites like this link |
| MadTheSwine73 26.11.2011 22:31 |
(In the same theme as the chorus of American Pie) Pi, Pi, mathematical Pi, three point one four one five nine two, six five three five eight nine seven, nine three two three eight four six two, six four three three eight three two seven (not rounded). |
| Queen1973 27.11.2011 03:15 |
Assasain not sure about this track but Victory ive heard album the jacksons version and maybe just maybe it would be good. |
| rocknrolllover 27.11.2011 03:40 |
One life is not enough to fully listen to the entire audio material in archives |
| Gianfrancesco 27.11.2011 04:47 |
rhyeking wrote: I don't find it odd at all. The Miracle sessions were busy and productive, with the band completing 17 full tracks that we know of, numerous fragments that we know of and likely a bunch more bits and pieces in various states of completion. Plus, Roger was working with The Cross at the time, so after more than 20 years, I can believe sessions start to blur together and all he'd remember reliably would be the tracks on The Miracle album, which got the most attention. I also don't believe the track "Friends In Pain" exists or was ever even written. It seems to me to be a figment of a someone's imagination, possibly stemming from the belief that the two John Deacon/Freddie Mercury tracks from A Kind Of Magic might have originated as a single John song. I could be wrong, but do we have any concrete evidence it exists?Ok :) Maybe you're right and that are just rumors about Friends In Pain! Do we have evidence about Assassin? |
| Gianfrancesco 27.11.2011 04:48 |
k-m wrote: Friends in Pain? Well, firstly that's a very cheesy title and secondly, it's the first time I hear it. But answering your question, God knows how many unheard songs they have in the vaults, but one thing is sure - all the best ones were put on Made In Heaven. So, I wouldn't hold my breath and keep in mind that the talk of a new album began after they signed up with Universal. Before this, the notion of putting a new Freddie album together was pretty much non-existent. Anyway, good luck to them. I await the "Days of Our Lives" DVD which seems good, really good. Actually in MIH there was just 3 unheard songs in '95...one of these moreover, completely "built" by David Richards... Friends In Pain is a song mentioned in many sites like this link |
| Gianfrancesco 27.11.2011 04:53 |
kevinhairsineevans wrote: Assasain not sure about this track but Victory ive heard the michael jackson version and maybe just maybe it woudl be good. Victory is an unpublished song never heard by anyone... |
| dysan 27.11.2011 05:01 |
The home demos would be interesting to hear, although I'd assume that they'd be in the respective members archive rather than the Queen one. It's telling that the demo recordings we heard on the last batch were solely Rogers songs - perhaps he agreed with the comments about the first batches issued and dug into the vault. That said, I can believe the 70's and early 80's demos are not of a sonic quality QP would deem suitable for release - hence we only got the early studio working versions, or from the period after Roger got a decent home set up. Of course then we're left deciding between, say, the demos that John made but didn't submit to the band (caught between the definition of home demo and actual 'Queen' songs) and those familiar tracks by the other 3 but before Queen got hold of them. They were lucky as I imagine for the most part their discarded 'Queen' songs just ended up on their solo stuff. So anyway, a nice load of home demos of songs we've heard would be enough for me. But I should guess that will wait until this 'new' album of studio off cuts is out. AND I'm still waiting for the COMPLETE Live Killers and Live Magic to appear, along with all those other stray b-sides and edits we haven't had yet. |
| k-m 27.11.2011 07:16 |
Gianfrancesco wrote:k-m wrote: Friends in Pain? Well, firstly that's a very cheesy title and secondly, it's the first time Ihear it. But answering your question, God knows how many unheard songs they have in the vaults, but one thing is sure - all the best ones were put on Made In Heaven. So, I wouldn't hold my breath and keep in mind that the talk of a new album began after they signed up with Universal. Before this, the notion of putting a new Freddie album together was pretty much non-existent. Anyway, good luck to them. I await the "Days of Our Lives" DVD which seems good, really good. Actually in MIH there was just 3 unheard songs in '95...one of these moreover, completely "built" by David Richards... Friends In Pain is a song mentioned in many sites like this link Well, the fact that there were only 3 brand new songs on MIH should give you a hint, I think. What I wrote doe not contradict it either, if that's clear enough. And as for Friends in Pain, I'd rather avoid the guessing game, really. Maybe it exists, maybe it doesn't - ask Brian May, maybe he knows. I wouldn't trouble Roger though;) |
| philip storey 27.11.2011 07:22 |
It could be a long wait,me thinks !! |
| Queen1973 27.11.2011 08:19 |
Gianfrancesco wrote: kevinhairsineevans wrote: Assasain not sure about this track butVictory ive heard the michael jackson version and maybe just maybe it woudl be good. Victory is an unpublished song never heard by anyone... Victory is a soong by micheal jackson thats the version i have heard just You tube it lol. |
| Gianfrancesco 27.11.2011 08:37 |
kevinhairsineevans wrote:Gianfrancesco wrote: kevinhairsineevans wrote: Assasain not sure about this track butVictory ive heard the michael jackson version and maybe just maybe it woudl be good.Victory is an unpublished song never heard by anyone... Victory is a soong by micheal jackson thats the version i have heard just You tube it lol. :D Victory is a Queen track, presumably intended for 'Hot Space', but was not completed. It was then worked on by Freddie and Michael Jackson in 1983, but this in turn remains unreleased, although it was reportedly due to be released in 2002 but then cancelled. The track may then have been re-recorded by The Jacksons for their 1984 album of the same name, but if so that version hasn't been released either. Recently Brian announced that he was working with Roger on the unreleased Freddie and Michael Jackson tracks, which will presumably include this song... |
| MadTheSwine73 27.11.2011 08:59 |
You know what, I'll stop being an asshole, and I'll actually answer your question now. The real answer is, we don't know. Before they were played, we had no idea about Grand Dame or Affairs. But my guess is that there's probably 50 tracks that we've never heard before that are in the vaults, if not way more. Take The Beatles, for example. I collect all their stuff as much as I do with Queen. The only difference between unreleased stuff (a very important one if I might add) is that Beatles fans know how many takes for each song that was recorded, and they know each song that was recorded, both released and unreleased. Queen fans don't. We'll never really know how much is in there unless they tell us. Yes, that was obvious, but hey, it's true. |
| Mr. Bed Guy 27.11.2011 12:19 |
Wasn't mentioned a few years ago that a Queen version of "Let Me In" exists? |
| kingogre 27.11.2011 13:54 |
Neither has Queens studio work been bootlegged to any bigger extent. |
| rhyeking 27.11.2011 14:45 |
Don't we know so much about The Beatles' recordings because someone independently tracked the material down and drew up an archive of everything they did? I know someone did the same for Elvis Presley and even published a book about it. One of the differences here is that bands and artists are more savvy now about that sort of thing generally and QPL began archiving their unreleased stuff years ago. Access to it by any old person (such as someone wanting to write a book) is extremely limited, if non-existent. The band itself is protecting its own interests (future releases, etc), whereas The Beatles and Elvis did not have this kind of control in their heyday. Their recordings were just sitting in places like Abbey Road collecting dust. Stuff would leak (as it still does) when someone with the time found something of interest, made a copy and it ended up on the bootleg market. I'm still of the impression, no offence, that the number of wholly finished songs which we have not heard is quite low, but the number of partially completed bits and pieces, demos and works in progress are probably much higher. I get the impression, based on what has been leaked over the years, what Freddie has said about how he works and what is evident in the demos and outtakes released (such as on the FM Solo Collection) that the band might start work on, say, 20 songs, get only part way through on 15 (mostly incomplete backing tracks or jams, with minimal lyrics, and the other 5 not getting much past the ideas stage, maybe with a rough demo), then fully finish 12 for an album, 1 of which may end up as a B-side and 1 may be sitting unheard somewhere, or revisited for another album. I may be wrong, but that's what I've gleaned about their process over the years and why I think the amount of finished or nearly finish material is limited. And to add to that, some album sessions may have even less than that, where everything was started and finished and released, such as with SHA, ANATO and ADATR, for example. Just my opinion. Maybe there are 50 finished tracks in the vault and I'm talking out my ass. :-) |
| MadTheSwine73 27.11.2011 14:53 |
rhyeking wrote: Just my opinion. Maybe there are 50 finished tracks in the vault and I'm talking out my ass. :-) Love you too rhyeking. But yeah, Mark Lewisohn published The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions and The Beatles Chronicle, which are both awesome. Yes, I'm a Beatles nerd. Paul McCartney performed "Come and Get It" live for the first time last night in Bologna, Italy. |
| rhyeking 27.11.2011 15:24 |
And didn't Mr. Lewisohn make up 4 Beatles songs, like "Left Is Right And Right Is Wrong," because he actually found there were very few unknown gems in the vaults, which caused a flurry of bullsh*t claims by people saying, "Yeah, I totally heard that demo once!"? Or was that someone else who did that? I do recall it happened and people still insist those songs exist because they appear in his book. |
| shamar 28.11.2011 06:02 |
k-m wrote: one thing is sure - all the best ones were put on Made In Heaven. No. It hasn't got "Face it Alone" (which sounds like masterpiece, something like "White Queen 2"), "Falling Out" , "Let me in your heart", "Hijack my heart" and some more. These are way better than cheep "Born 2 love U" remix or smooth version of "Life has been saved" |
| john bodega 28.11.2011 08:56 |
I Guess We're Falling Out is awful. |
| pittrek 28.11.2011 12:42 |
Zebonka12 wrote: I Guess We're Falling Out is awful. I think "boring" is a better word. |
| pittrek 28.11.2011 12:43 |
Topic starter - check link |
| *goodco* 29.11.2011 06:43 |
rhyeking wrote: And didn't Mr. Lewisohn make up 4 Beatles songs, like "Left Is Right And Right Is Wrong," because he actually found there werevery few unknown gems in the vaults, which caused a flurry of bullsh*t claims by people saying, "Yeah, I totally heard that demo once!"? Or was that someone else who did that? I do recall it happened and people still insist those songs exist because they appear in his book.
No, the rumor started in the 70s.
link Later on, an EMI employee was given access to listing all of the takes and tapes. Mark Lewisohn was then granted permission to go through all of these for his book(s)......something I wish Queen and QPL would have done. It would have made a great read, and source to dispell some of the misnotions or failing memories of various individuals. I was given the 'Recording Sessions' book as a present back when it came out. It certainly made me curious of what certain demos sounded like, as well as the unreleased finished tracks. Made the 'Anthology' series even more enjoyable when they were released. Once again, wish QPL would have followed that format. Maybe I'd have spent more than zero dollars on what was released this year. |
| Micrówave 29.11.2011 10:16 |
I think the answer to this question is rather simple. Look at what BM & RT have been doing for the last 20 years. Living off any mention of Queen. American Idol. Paul Rodgers. Katy Perry. Anything they can do to stay relevant. This includes SOLO albums. Any material "in the archives" that was theirs was re-worked into songs for the Solo Albums. To the point of exhaustion... there's nothing left. John likes getting checks but that's about it. He's not going into the studio to re-work his songs. They didn't start writing as "Queen" until late in their career. So all that is left is Freddie's stuff... who released most of it with the big Box Set years ago. Why would they re-work OLD songs for Maiden Heaven? Because there wasn't a whole lot left. |
| rhyeking 29.11.2011 11:57 |
I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but is the problem people have with Brian and Roger that they're advertising Queen (via Idols, The Musical, Extravaganzas, Hits releases and re-issues) and reaping the financial rewards? If they did none of these things, what might happen is that they become just a classic rock band only listened to by the original fans (fans who were around when the bulk of their initial output was released between 1973 and 1991) and fewer and fewer new fans as each of those twenty years goes by. Without the benefit of an intact classic line-up, their options are limited. Maybe it would be different if John had died and they carried on without him, but since it was the recognizable lead vocalist, the loss in the public consciousness is greater. Without Freddie, it's hard to sound like Queen for anyone who isn't a seasoned fan. In order to keep the public and potential new fans aware of their music, they have to draw on the old material, with all those things listed above (Idols, etc.) that don't exactly cater to the wants and desires of the fans who already have everything previously released. What else should they do? They've released two new albums since (Made In Heaven and The Cosmos Rocks). They've toured. They've put out a few singles and older concerts. If they stop and focus on the Anthologies, then they risk losing potential new fans in favour of preaching to the converted. Even if Brian and Roger had stopped calling themselves Queen after 1995 when not releasing material worked on by the four classic members (and "No One But You"), the public identity of Queen would still face the same challenges. If I might inject a bit of humor, I get the sense that many fans would prefer that "Queen" become the band equivalent of Yoda, his glory days behind him, sitting in a swamp as a wise old sage, and waiting for only those 'worthy' to find him. |
| Micrówave 29.11.2011 14:21 |
I certainly don't have a problem with them "milking it" the rest of the way. But to infer that you're releasing the long lost Golden Treasures of Freddie and provide poop instead, then you begin to cross a line. Kind of like Brian thinking it should be Queen + Gaga.... Really? Maybe in 1980, but today HE is not the pull. It all started when Brian put "with special guests Guns & Roses" on his BTTL T-Shirts. You are not the king, Brian. Read the latest rolling stone... you're in the 20s. Write a good batch of tunes this time. If you want to include Freddie singing "Dog With A Bone Fanclub message" on the second verse and it fits, fine. Don't tell me it's the lost Mercury sessions. Don't give me some 20 minute plus loop of cheesy synthesizers to fill up an album and tell me its the ghost of Freddie. Don't re-re-release something that gives me an additional 3 minutes of stuff I've never heard and call it Remastered with Rare Bonus Tracks when it sounds like you just got a bad EQ. |
| john bodega 29.11.2011 23:21 |
I agree with all of this, except: "Don't give me some 20 minute plus loop of cheesy synthesizers to fill up an album and tell me its the ghost of Freddie." Because that actually was his ghost and I have proof. |
| rhyeking 30.11.2011 02:27 |
Rolling Stone doesn't know nearly as much about music as it would like people to think it does. If anyone wants an example of the act of milking a brand name over producing meaningful material, look no further than that rag. I'm still not clear on what, in everyone else's opinion, Brian and Roger should be doing. It's one thing to say what you think they shouldn't do, which at times seems to be pretty much everything. Allow me to hazard a list... What not to do: Call themselves "Queen," even though it's their band. Collaborate with anyone else as "Queen + [X]," because we don't like that other artist. Remaster the albums to anything that isn't the equivalent of the original LP. Re-issue the albums with a few bonus tracks, because something extra now means we have to buy something old to get it. Anything promotional for the classic material (new Hits collections, TV appearances, musicals, etc.), even if it means not gaining new fans. Appear to be making anymore money via Queen. Talk about what they might want to do in the future that doesn't involve releasing old concerts and the Anthologies. ...It's an entirely different thing to suggest alternatives. So far, the only two things on their To Do list, if they are to listen to fans, are the Anthologies and old concerts...both, conveniently, releases primarily aimed at the fans who have everything else. |
| rocknrolllover 30.11.2011 02:36 |
no matter how many songs . we never shall hear them officially |
| brENsKi 30.11.2011 14:28 |
42 .....no...wait....that's an answer to a different question |
| k-m 30.11.2011 17:05 |
shamar wrote: k-m wrote: one thing is sure - all the best ones were put on Made In Heaven. No. It hasn't got "Face it Alone" (which sounds like masterpiece, something like "White Queen 2"), "Falling Out" , "Let me in your heart", "Hijack my heart" and some more. These are way better than cheep "Born 2 love U" remix or smooth version of "Life has been saved" The songs I meant here are the new ones that first saw the light of day on MIH, not the remixes. The remixes didn't shine, really, maybe apart from "Heaven for Everyone". And I wasn't comparing them to the demos or B-sides either, but to the "never-heard songs", as stated in the subject. |
| Russian Headlong 10.12.2011 08:45 |
Brian was the special guest of Guns and Roses in 92 and 93 not the other way round. Did he really have Tshirts made with special guest GNR on, cheeky bastard.. |
| rhyeking 12.12.2011 09:31 |
I do believe he headlined a few of those dates, like New York and LA, but a concert expert may know better. The Brian May Band did appear, with Slash, on the Tonight Show. But yes, it was primarily a GNR Tour. My thought is that if GNR were cool with the T-shirts, why should we be bothered? He's still friends with Axl and Slash. Besides, if you went to the show, you know who the headliners were, so no one was going to be "fooled" by a t-shirt. |