| rhyeking 25.03.2011 11:14 |
Reading many of the threads dedicated to people's favourites and least favourite Queen tracks, a few people have pointed out that there may be underlying generational gaps between segments of the fans. I agree, to a point. Let me say right off that I do not believe that when you became a fan makes your opinion any more or less valid here or anywhere. Newcomers ought to be welcomed, as should their unique perception of the band and its music. We should celebrate new points of view and those which challenge the status quo (if such a thing ever existed in the first place). For a fascinating look at how the world changes and how each new generation perceives it, take a look at Beloit College's "Mindset Lists", published each year. For your convenience, here's the current one, for students who will graduate college in the Class of 2014 (having started in the Fall of 2010): link Now, back to the topic at hand. My own perception, very loosely, is that there are three distinct generations of Queen fans currently, and we're poised for a fourth to develop soon. 1st Generation Those who were there at the beginning, be they adults when Queen 1 was released or children/teens who grew up in the '70s with Queen as part of the new musical landscape. From this vantage point, the development of Queen and their different directions are viewed as current events. 2nd Generation Those who discovered Queen in the mid '80s to early '90s, for whom much of Queen's primary output was already released, but who benefit from experiencing a few new releases (Made In Heaven, "No One But You," The Cosmos Rocks, Back To The Light, Another World, Happiness?, Electric Fire, etc.). I believe I fall into this category, having discovered Queen in the early '90s. Here, looking back, I accept Queen's output and the different influences as historical facts, rather than judging those directions with the benefit of knowing the end result (like that Hot Space would be lambasted, etc). 3rd Generation Those who discovered Queen in the last half of the '90s up until now, where Freddie has always been dead, sadly, and the work of Brian and Roger has directed Queen's current output, but for whom also (like Gen 2) the bulk of Queen original studio albums are a part of musical history. This Generation has a lot of back catalogue to wade through and newer Queen/Solo material is scarce. Like Gen 2, the older albums are what they are, the music that came before, without context, there to take or leave. This is also the Generation for whom the internet and file sharing is commonplace and a way of life. Gen 1 & 2 saw it develop and marvel at the boost it gave to collecting, where Gen 3 might take it for granted. Music is less about albums than it is about songs. Context is much harder unless their fandom directs them to research the material. Without that context, "Body Language" and "Tie Your Mother Down" are on equal footing in their minds, two songs from the same band. Their musical landscape allows for both to co-exist in a way Gen 1 might not account for. The reason I picked approximately 15 year lengths is that it accounts for new generations of teens to discover music, which is when most people develop their personal tastes. Also, these are broad categories, so don't be offended if you think you don't fit into *that* Generation because of my semi-arbitrary descriptions. I bring this up to invite discussion, not as my unshakable view. Thoughts? |
| PrimeJiveUSA 25.03.2011 11:40 |
Wow...what an incredible post! I'm a "1st generation fan"(unfortunately that makes me old!)...but I totally welcome and encourage new fans of all ages! I've loved Queen since getting "News Of The World" in early '78...it was my first Hard Rock album, before that it was Elvis and Disney records(lol). |
| mike hunt 25.03.2011 14:06 |
rhyeking wrote: Reading many of the threads dedicated to people's favourites and least favourite Queen tracks, a few people have pointed out that there may be underlying generational gaps between segments of the fans. I agree, to a point. Let me say right off that I do not believe that when you became a fan makes your opinion any more or less valid here or anywhere. Newcomers ought to be welcomed, as should their unique perception of the band and its music. We should celebrate new points of view and those which challenge the status quo (if such a thing ever existed in the first place). For a fascinating look at how the world changes and how each new generation perceives it, take a look at Beloit College's "Mindset Lists", published each year. For your convenience, here's the current one, for students who will graduate college in the Class of 2014 (having started in the Fall of 2010): link Now, back to the topic at hand. My own perception, very loosely, is that there are three distinct generations of Queen fans currently, and we're poised for a fourth to develop soon. 1st Generation Those who were there at the beginning, be they adults when Queen 1 was released or children/teens who grew up in the '70s with Queen as part of the new musical landscape. From this vantage point, the development of Queen and their different directions are viewed as current events. 2nd Generation Those who discovered Queen in the mid '80s to early '90s, for whom much of Queen's primary output was already released, but who benefit from experiencing a few new releases (Made In Heaven, "No One But You," The Cosmos Rocks, Back To The Light, Another World, Happiness?, Electric Fire, etc.). I believe I fall into this category, having discovered Queen in the early '90s. Here, looking back, I accept Queen's output and the different influences as historical facts, rather than judging those directions with the benefit of knowing the end result (like that Hot Space would be lambasted, etc). 3rd Generation Those who discovered Queen in the last half of the '90s up until now, where Freddie has always been dead, sadly, and the work of Brian and Roger has directed Queen's current output, but for whom also (like Gen 2) the bulk of Queen original studio albums are a part of musical history. This Generation has a lot of back catalogue to wade through and newer Queen/Solo material is scarce. Like Gen 2, the older albums are what they are, the music that came before, without context, there to take or leave. This is also the Generation for whom the internet and file sharing is commonplace and a way of life. Gen 1 & 2 saw it develop and marvel at the boost it gave to collecting, where Gen 3 might take it for granted. Music is less about albums than it is about songs. Context is much harder unless their fandom directs them to research the material. Without that context, "Body Language" and "Tie Your Mother Down" are on equal footing in their minds, two songs from the same band. Their musical landscape allows for both to co-exist in a way Gen 1 might not account for. The reason I picked approximately 15 year lengths is that it accounts for new generations of teens to discover music, which is when most people develop their personal tastes. Also, these are broad categories, so don't be offended if you think you don't fit into *that* Generation because of my semi-arbitrary descriptions. I bring this up to invite discussion, not as my unshakable view. Thoughts? I guess I'm a second generation fan......I remember Queen as youngster in the late 70's early 80's. Liked them along with The cars, The Who and other popular rock bands of it's day. I also remember hot space when it was released, and how rock fans thought they sold out. Everyone hated that album from what I remember......then i bacame a teenager by 83/84 and forgot about classic rock, and discovered The Metal scene Of Maiden/Priest, Dio, ozzy, slayer and the rest of the Bunch. It wasn't until 1989 (the miracle) era that i rediscovered classic rock, Especially Queen, it's when i bacame a proper fan. Never looked back since then. My older brother from the first generation of fans left the album Sheer heart Attack on the record player. for whatever reason put it on and was blown away by Brighton rock, and rest of the album. |
| plumrach 25.03.2011 14:09 |
I am 2nd generation fan as by the time i got into Queen it was late 80s and i am still finding stuff esp on youtube that i have not seen before and i appreciate their music so much more now that i am older than when i was in my early teens |
| Isle0fRed 25.03.2011 15:28 |
The first time I ever heard Queen was in the late 97-8 when I was around 7/8ish seeing their Live Aid performance on VHS. The VHS also featured recordings of Hammersmith 75 and Milton Keyes 82, (both in incomplete forms) The first album I heard was Live at Wembley 86 (1992 pressing) and A Kind Of Magic. My dad later handed down his vinal copy of Live Killers in which I saved up and bought News of the World (Japans import). Since then I bought every Queen release there was, and within a period of 7 years, I had every album there was. By your definition, I am Gen3. And because I'm still young, I am very proud. Richard and by the way. Sucker Punch is the worst film of 2011 this year |
| Jazz 78 25.03.2011 15:50 |
Great post!!! I would fall into the 1st generation category which also makes me old. So old I fart dust! You hit the nail on the head when you wrote that Tie Your Mother Down and Body Language were of equal footing to younger fans. I was used to hearing TYMD when I was 13, 14 or 15 but then when BL came out it really through a wrench in the works for me. Well written post!!! |
| Russian Headlong 25.03.2011 16:05 |
I guess I fall somewhere between 1st and 2nd generation having really discovered them in 1980 as an 11 year old although I had been conscious of them since about '75 as a small kid. I was desperate to go and see them in 1984 at the NEC but my mum wouldnt let me go but was fortunate to see them twice on the Magic tour. I was into 80's and 70's Rock and Metal and I didn't like much of the 80's output from The Game onwards when they pandered more to 'Top 40, poppy sounds on large chunks of their material. I remember being so disappointed hearing stuff like Pain is so lose to Pleasure. I even wrote to the Fan Club and had my letter published. I thought they sold out on record to be honest but live they were unstoppable. Prefer the 70's output but there are some gems from each decade. |
| angermair73 25.03.2011 16:31 |
Well i guess im in that 2. generation. I first remember Radio ga ga but it didnt make much impression on me. Two years later in 1986 i heard We are the champion in the World Cup and from then on i was sold. My father gave me my first Queen recording and it was Live Magic on Casette. I kinda like that album. Then i got Greatest Hits 1 and i thought it was great. I started collecting for real then. I remember getting the singles and 12 inches and so on from The Miracle when it came. Good times Im from 1973 by the way |
| Dr Zoidberg 25.03.2011 16:43 |
That's a great discussion. Kudos. I too have pondered the generational aspects of Queen fandom but I hadn't put in into quite so much detail. My own musings have been more along the lines of the different perceptions of two groups - people who were fans while Freddie was alive and thus experienced Queen's career as it developed, and people who became fans after Freddie died and for whom the band's catalogue was essentially a set-in-stone historical work. I fall into the latter group and I think that has made me generally more accepting and less reflexively critical of the Queen+ era because my image of "Queen" encompassed from the beginning all of their periods, directions, stylistic changes, image changes, solo dabblings and collaborations. So Robbie Williams and Britney Spears and Paul Rodgers and the musical and so much else just seemed like branches on the tree. I think I've had far fewer outraged "how dare they" moments because of when I got onboard the Queen Express. Its not that I don't have discerning taste, as I like what I and don't care for other things, but I think I'm able to take things more in stride than a lot of people. |
| rhyeking 25.03.2011 17:36 |
Well said, Dr. Z. That covers many of my feelings as well. I do sometimes feel I'm fighting the "I have good taste in music" battle when defending my enjoyment of '80s Queen, which is what generally takes the brunt of the criticisms. I do believe it has a lot to do with the environment we grew up in. '80s music was just what was happening and songs like "Radio Ga Ga" were right there in the mix in my childhood. It wasn't good or bad...it just was. I liken it to a building in a city. When a building goes up, some will like it and some won't. When their children are born or new residents move there, the building is just part of the landscape, a building among buildings. When the building is torn down, some older residents say, "Well it shouldn't have been there in the first place!" Other older residents say, "I got used to it. It was alright, I suppose." While the young and new residents say, "You can't tear it down! It's part of the landscape!" After the building is gone, some lament its passing. When the next generation arrives, there was never a building there for them, so they listen to how great or ugly it was from their parents and wonder what the big deal was. It was just a building...there will be others. |
| spaceboy1972 25.03.2011 20:42 |
Well as they say one mans shit is another mans treasure. I guess I'm a second generation fan but growing up in the 1980's listened to Yes,Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac and ELP then later on in the late 80's and into the 90's Wire,XTC,Roxy Music,Eno and Talking Heads. I see Queen as being immensely diverse - but opinions vary and I expect there are some people who on hearing mention of Queen just think Bo Rhap - oh no! I've come to the conclusion live and let live - I don't expect people to agree with the music I like and I'm willing to give most stuff a chance and then make up my mind. |
| PrimeJiveUSA 25.03.2011 21:06 |
I'm one of those first generation(American *gasp*) fans that thought "Radio Ga Ga" was BRILLIANT on the very first listen! I have always been very open to Queen changing their sound and adapting to the changing climate. I also LOVED "Body Language" and "Staying Power" on initial release...and cheered from the depth of my soul as I watched their masterful performance at Live Aid on live television. |
| Gaabiizz 25.03.2011 21:16 |
Gran post , yo soy de la tercera generacion , recuerdo cuando conoci a la reina , mientras hacia tarea y mirava rock montreal , luego empeze a buscar cosas por internet ( recitales , entrevistas , canciones) y cada ves me volvia mas aficionado , recuerdo que el primer disco que compre fue Made In Heaven , ahora han pasado cinco años desde mi fanatismo y cada vez se hace mas grande , no tuvimos la suerte de ver a Freddie , como muchos de aqui , pero dia a dia nos seguimos sorprendiendo con su arte y con el nuevo material que aparece cada dia Great post, I am a third generation, I remember when I met the queen, while 've watched Rock Montreal , then i started search online things (concerts, interviews, songs) and every time became more the fond of, I remember the first album I bought was Made In Heaven, have now been five years since my fanaticism and it is getting bigger, are many here were not lucky enough to see Freddie, but every day we continue to amaze with his art and with new material appearing every day |
| rhyeking 26.03.2011 11:05 |
No sooner do I wander over to Cracked.com than I find this hilariously depressing article about what the next generation (today's children) won't understand about our world, that of the last few generations. I'm almost 35 and I already feel like Methuselah. I think I need to listen to some Queen to cheer me up... link |
| Jimmy Dean 26.03.2011 11:16 |
I'm 2nd gen - although I only listened to News Of The World (in my uncle's record collection) when i was 5 or 6... the next album I heard was the-then newly released Innuendo which I loved and listened to over and over and over again...I was only 7 years old then. it was maybe only a couple of years after when I finally heard Greatest Hits (original and not the Hollywood Records version) around '93 and right after I saw Wayne's World, only-then realizing that Bohemian Rhapsody, which I had previously seen Wayne and Garth celebrate in the car, was a Queen song! - I didn't hear the reference before they introduced it when I saw it the first time. Right after the Wayne's World thing happened - I noticed my local library started carrying more Queen stuff so I would pick up something new - listening to The Works, which they only had on LP back when casettes were the in-thing. Later, I remember tracking down A Day At The Races and The Game from a used record store. Then finally, when I got a CD player - maybe 94? I purchased Queen's first album on CD with my slowly accumalting allowance for whopping 27$ CDN - CDs cost a lot more back then - now you can pick it up for 17-18 - which is about 10-11 pounds sterling. And it was only after listening to all those albums that I first heard A Night At the Opera! Right after Made In Heaven came out, I decided to track down the rest of their output - Hot Space, Miracle, Sheer Heart Attack, II, Flash Gordon, the live lps, etc... To this day, I still regard News Of The World as my favorite album of all time. I can still remember myself listening to it for the first time as a little 5 year old wearing these massive cans that would practially cover my entire head at my grandparents house (where my uncle lived, then). Nice post - brought back some of MY early Queen memories :-) |
| PrimeJiveUSA 26.03.2011 12:16 |
Jimmy Dean..."News Of The World" was my first Queen album, too! Only...I bought it as a new release in early '78! LOL It's an awesome album...and remains a top 3 favorite to this day. |
| mike hunt 26.03.2011 15:41 |
i think NOTW still sounds fresh to this day......In all honesty when i first heard the album I thought it was good, but not great. Now I see it as a truly great album. I still like the first 5 slightly better, but i have to say it's aged better than a lot of their albums. |
| Soundfreak 27.03.2011 06:03 |
Very interesting topic with lots of good points! I'm definitely generation 1 having heard "Keep yourself alive" when it was "Powerplay" on Radio Luxembourg on medium wave. I was totally into the "Sweet" by then and was amazed how similar they sounded (on medium wave!). It's nothing I am particular proud of...it just happened. I think it's great, that new generations have discovered the music and still do. But it sometimes drives me crazy when I read all this comparisons between songs of different eras like "Tie your Mother down" or "Body Language". It shows, that some people do not understand, where all the music is coming from. And they completely ignore the context of the times when it was created. Music was developing so fast in the late 60s/ early 70s and everyone was - unlike today - trying to find something new and original. But besides the several generations there are two more groups I see in the Queen fan scene: - Those who accept that the time does not stand still and who are open to changes and new ideas. - And then there are those, who are "deadly conservative", glorify a past that has never existed and even want to forbid the remaining band members to do anything that does not fit into their fantasy of a perfect rock band. And those obviously have never understood Queen at all. It was always about trying something new and also risky. |
| GratefulFan 27.03.2011 15:01 |
rhyeking wrote: For a fascinating look at how the world changes and how each new generation perceives it, take a look at Beloit College's "Mindset Lists", published each year. For your convenience, here's the current one, for students who will graduate college in the Class of 2014 (having started in the Fall of 2010): link ========================================= "66. Galileo is forgiven and welcome back into the Roman Catholic Church." Ahhhahahah. We're so funny sometimes. |
| GratefulFan 27.03.2011 15:21 |
Soundfreak wrote: And those obviously have never understood Queen at all. It was always about trying something new and also risky. ============================= Which doesn't preclude people concluding "Huh. That didn't really work. I think I'll listen to Def Leppard instead." Comparing Queen to Queen (or considering Queen in a vacuum), and comparing Queen to people that broadly did what they were trying to do much better than they did in the 80's are two different things. I'm not convinced the generational aspects have as much to do with things as is being suggested. Great music is great music, and average music by a great band is still average music. I came to the entire catalogue relatively late because after an early fascination with NOTW through an older cousin, followed by being a freshly minted teenager when The Game hit in North America, they kind of disappeared in my AM Top 40 radio town after Body Language and Pressure. In theory, every album should have had an equal chance to become a musical staple for me. But I'm one of the many that draws a fundamental line between The Game and everything that came after it. I do believe the fundamental reason for that is the music. |
| Sheer Brass Neck 27.03.2011 16:36 |
Every fans' opinion is a meaningful/worthless as the next's. I'm a first generation fan, who believes that every artist ever, with the exception of perhaps Picasso, has a time when they do their best work, when they are hungry and trying to make their mark in the world. For me, that's Queen from '73 to '78. They had great songs after that, mostly hit and miss albums, and grew bored after their monster success, which is human nature. Their early music revealed their hunger and had a vitality their later stuff lacked. My "time invested" as a fan means nothing other than I and others were there when it was happening, and you can't replace the feeling of something special happening as it happens. I can see Bohemian Rhapsody being a revelation in 2011 for a 15 year old. I can't see it as being as powerful as when it happened, and the world had never seen or heard anything close to it. Back to Picasso, "Guernica" is an extremely powerful anti-war painting. I saw it for the first time last year. It was incredibly powerful, but I can't imagine it being more powerful for me as a free man traveling Europe at my leisure, than for someone who lived through the horror of the bombing seeing it for the first time. Same thing, I saw the power of music as a 17 year old when Queen played Toronto for NOTW, and the album wasn't yet released in Canada. Yet after the show, hundreds of people walked down Yonge Street chanting We will rock you, probably the only thing they could remember from a song they'd never heard. And a gigantic sound never before captured on record. If that touches someone today or in 1988 the way it did me and others, that's awesome, but it's hard to look at this stuff in a revisionist light. What was awesome is now routine in the world, and the thought of people chanting a song they'd never heard would probably seem quaint to a generation where a flash mob can get together and do things in a matter of minutes. |
| Soundfreak 28.03.2011 04:16 |
@ Grateful Fan I fully agree with you. There is no reason to like everything a band or an artist produces. That's not my point at all. But I watch people complaining all the time "how could they do this...how could they do that....how could they do a musical...how could they work with Robbie Williams....how could they do an album like Hot Space....." And those have never understood the band and their ambition of always trying new and also risky things. |
| Thistle 28.03.2011 11:10 |
I was born in November '80 and can remember Queen II, SHA, GH1 and The Works being in my dad's LP collection, but I didn't actually start listening to them properly until MIH in '95. I suppose that makes me a 3rd gen fan! I wasn't really into music back then lol, so my music experience, and education, began with MIH....Queen captured my imagination instantaniously and, having set the bar so highly, I have struggled to find anything that even comes close in terms of class or the ability to drum up excitement. So I started with MIH and worked my way bacwards, dropping off at several stations where I thought I had found my favourite album or track. After claiming it to be a plethora of the possibilities, I have finally stopped, and stayed, at Queen II and MOTBQ! |
| Big Fat Fanny 28.03.2011 14:28 |
Generation 1, I was 14 when Bo Rhap was first released which means I was lucky enough to see the "classic lineup" Queen live eleven times between 1976 and 1984. Here I am, still a fan 30-odd years later. |