| jamster1111 26.07.2010 21:55 |
What do we all think of this song? I was just listening to it and never really realized how great of a song it is. In my opinion, it has one of Freddie's best vocal performances |
| rhyeking 26.07.2010 22:13 |
I like the song too. Apparently, Brian did the drum track on the album version, or so I've read, because either Roger wasn't up to it or he just felt it worked better. Or that story could be bullshit, I really don't know. The Rocks Re-Take kicks ass, though I wish they'd left the last "Can't liiiiive without you!" in after the "Whoa-oo-oo-oo-oh yeah!" near the end. I sing it anyway. The eYe instrumental is really good too and holds together nicely. I've also read that it was originally meant for Back To The Light, so a pre-Queen demo would be interesting with Brian's vocals, if such a thing exists. Yes, all around, a solid rocker! I also like that it follows Headlong on the album, keeping the heavy momentum going. Curously, the LP edition of the album moves Don't Try So Hard to Side 2, resulting in Headlong, I Can't Live With You and Ride The Wild Wind going back to back to back, so the second half of Side 1 completely rocks out. |
| mike hunt 27.07.2010 00:20 |
It's a good song....Thanks god for freddie and brian, cos the early 80's to the early 90's roger was in decline as a drummer. With all the talk on Queenzone of freddie's voice not being what it was in the mid 80's.....most of these songs wouldn't have been very good if it wasn't for his voice. let's face it, musically they wern't what they were back in the 70's....the one constant was freds voice. "in the studio" Innuendo was the best album since the 70's or at least the Game. That's debatable, but the album could have used better drum work. Think how much better Innuendo would have been if it had drums closer to news of the world. age isn't an excuse. live maybe, but not the studio. neil pert sounds as powerful as ever in his 60's. |
| rhyeking 27.07.2010 00:59 |
Queen's drum sound is sort of all over the place through their career. Personally, I think the techniques they used on the first few albums make the drums sound flat, Roger is playing pancakes of something. It's not his playing, just the sound of the drums as recorded. It might have been Roy Thomas Baker's influence. I hate comparing Queen songs with other Queen songs, but listen to the beginning of "Liar" then listen to the beginning of "Crazy Little Thing." Mack's drum sound was tight! In my mind, loosely, Queen has a few different phases (some of which overlap): Early Queen (Q1, Q2, SHA) = Lots of Zeppelin and blues/rock influence Mid-'70s (SHA, Opera, Races) = Lots of Beatles-esque in-studio experimenting Late '70s (News, Jazz, Game) = scaled down production, straightforward rock Early '80s (Game, Flash, Hot Space) = Heavy on the Funk, Dance, Pop Mid to Late '80s (Works, Magic, Miracle) = Synth-Pop-Rock '90s (Innuendo, Heaven, NOBY, Queen+ )= Heavy Rock, back to big production 2000s (46664, Q+PR, Queen+) = back to blues/rock, but with big production The last two eras are hard to easily describe because there was a lot of recording/remixing of older songs and the result is a broad cross-section. In the '80s, though, as pop/rock dominated their sound, they weren't using the "look at the awesome drum fills" approach so much as "keep the beat" approach. Plus, Roger added synth-drums to his kit, which he's now pretty much dropped. |
| Rick 27.07.2010 03:57 |
Albums with the best drum sound are, IMHO: ADATR, NOTW and The Miracle. Why did he change to such a flat sound on Innuendo? It was perfect on The Miracle! |
| mike hunt 27.07.2010 07:13 |
The Miracle?....Nah, don't think so. Roger at his best is Sheer Heart attack to News of the world. Jazz has some of his best work as a drummer but the sound messes it up. Really anything from queen to the game has great stuff from him. After that he became average. Just the basic beat, nothing more. Actually, after' the game' i think made in Heaven is roger's best. A nice full drum sound on that one. |
| mandocello 27.07.2010 11:50 |
Rick - "Albums with the best drum sound are, IMHO: ADATR, NOTW and The Miracle." One of the greatest drum sounds ever is the very last moment of White Man, where it's just one single strike. It sounds so good that you think you're sitting behind the drumkit! |
| Rick 27.07.2010 13:36 |
mike hunt wrote: The Miracle?....Nah, don't think so. Roger at his best is Sheer Heart attack to News of the world. Jazz has some of his best work as a drummer but the sound messes it up. Really anything from queen to the game has great stuff from him. After that he became average. Just the basic beat, nothing more. Actually, after' the game' i think made in Heaven is roger's best. A nice full drum sound on that one. Songs like Hang On In There and Was It All Worth It have perfect drumming with a perfect sound. But that is just my opinion. I agree with you on Jazz. Awful sound, great drumming. Maybe his best on record. |
| ludwigs 28.07.2010 04:22 |
Jazz was the album where he used lots and lots of 'flams'. See how many times you notice? IYCBTJT, NMOTJ, LHAE and many more.... |
| cmsdrums 28.07.2010 07:12 |
Roger's real drums on the Rocks Re-take of ICLWY are, I presume, taken from the original sessions, but were just not used on the Innuendo version. The playing is good, and sounds great, so I'm not quite sure why it wasn't used originally, but sometimes the drum machine approach just works for a song. I agree with ADATR and SHA being goods sounding drum albums; the toms are massive!! NOTW sound very good overall, but the snare is, in places (and this is certainly cleare on the newer remasters), starting to creep towards the strange snare sound on Jazz, which is very un Roger like. The not very nice snare, and the fact that the kit is panned very hard and the opposite way around to usual, makes the drums sound very different on Jazz. I too love the drum sound on The Miracle - some tracks are better than others and some suffer from being covered in samples and triggers, but Was It All Worth It is particularly lovely and great playing too; similarly Khashoggi's Ship sound nice. Although because it's not a standard rock song it oftern gets looked over, but the main parts of Party have a really good real kit, hi hats and snare sound - they really suit the song. The toms on The Miracle are, for the most, great sounding - enough room reverb, but not too much that they don't sound hollow and fail to carry depth and punch (like a lot of Innuendo) The Works drum sound? Don't go there!!!! |
| brians wig 28.07.2010 09:21 |
Personally I LOVE Roger's drum sound from the first three albums. I hate the later stuff that sounds like tin cans with no bass to them. |
| mike hunt 28.07.2010 09:27 |
Think a night at the opera has some great drums.....'Death on two legs' anyone?.......sheer heart attack is the perfect showcase for brian and roger. Brighton rock, flick of the wrist, ect. |
| Wiley 28.07.2010 12:49 |
I second the "Death on two legs" comment. Awesome drumming that serves the song 100%. "You're my best friend" has a very enjoyable drum pattern, for a pop song with barbershop-type backing vocals. Side 1 on A Night at the Opera is awesome. I only skip Sweet Lady every now and then, and even there Roger's drumming is great. |
| rhyeking 28.07.2010 14:16 |
Re: ICLWY Rocks Re-Take I'm pretty sure the song was a full 1997 re-record with at least new drums from Roger and new guitar from Brian. I'm not sure if John recorded any new bass (or if Brian redid the bass, maybe). Freddie's vocals are obviously re-edited from the original album take. I assume this rerecord took place around the same time they recorded No One But You, whereby the three were in the studio together, but I'm just guessing. |
| Regor 28.07.2010 16:11 |
As far as I know (and I'm sure Sebastian will shed some light on this) rhyeking is right, the Innuendo-version is Brian's demo including the programmed drums. This version ended on the album either because of lack of time to re-record or Roger himself thought it sounded good as it was. The "Rocks re-take" of course adds a lot to the song. Concerning drums in general, in the very early days the drums sounded dry and flat because that was the "Trident"-sound, the studio was new and at the time for a certain style of music that was the popular sound. Queen did not like it themselves and that was corrected from II or SHA latest, adding "room" to the sound - achieved by different mic-positions and other studios, I think. Sometimes it fits, think of Stewart Copeland: for the sound of The Police - a power trio with just the instrumentation of the three protagonists at least for the first three albums - the tight/dry sound (sorry, dunno if it comes across with my school-english) fits perfectly, leaving open spaces but cutting through sound-wise at the same time. Just listen to some of his unbelievable exercises on the high-hat in relation to the hard-hitted and crisp snare. He did not need big rolls or fills across the tom-toms to support the music. What a drummer! For Queen, their musical soundscapes and rich arrangements, a "big" sound was needed - just like for Led Zep. So you need a room for that, and mics not only positioned right at the set, but in a little distance as well. Personally, I think Rog is a great drummer, not technically but in a musical way. He admits to involuntarily open the high-hat with every hit of the snare, but that became a trademark, and adds to the huge sound on the 2 and 4. IMO he also tends to "accompany" the bass drum on the high-hat when more difficult bassdrum-patterns are played (anyone else noticed that?), but that does not bother me at all. Again, Sebastian, I would be interested in your opinion. His rolls and fills are great and powerful, and there are a lot of examples for excellent playing: -Brighton Rock studio and live - awesome! -the 16th-notes on the high-hat in Dragon Attack - must be exhausting on the wrist -the solo in the same song - recorded over the basic beat, this solo actually grooves! -isn't there an inversion of the emphasis in "Hitman" - the snare on 1 and 3 after the bridge? If so, great idea! -Staying Power live - his use of the ride, the tempo and complexity - awesome! And lots more - IMO a fantastic "band"-drummer, perfectly serving the songs. |
| rhyeking 28.07.2010 17:49 |
Regor, I'm not sure the Innuendo version of ICLWY is entirely Brian's demo. All I know is he programmed the drums, which is what we hear on the album. Even though Roger doesn't play the drums on the album version, he still sings the harmonies with Freddie and Brian, John is on bass and Freddie is singing lead. I assume there's a proper Brian Demo of the song somewhere in the vault, with his guide vocal, but I have no way of knowing. It's said he planned it for Back To The Light, but I don't think it's known how far along he got before it became a Queen song for Innuendo. As you can see, we're fraught with speculation. |
| lyricalassasin77 28.07.2010 18:51 |
Funny......I thought this Thread was about "I Can't Live With You", but it now seems to be all about Roger's drumming.....Well GREAT song, and Roger never really was that great a drummer anyhow so disinterested in that topic all together..... |
| andreas_mercury 28.07.2010 19:05 |
too bad of your a retard ...... roger was a great drummer unless you want in conversation about duran duran the other roger taylor |
| rhyeking 28.07.2010 20:35 |
lyricalassasin77 wrote: Funny......I thought this Thread was about "I Can't Live With You", but it now seems to be all about Roger's drumming.....Well GREAT song, and Roger never really was that great a drummer anyhow so disinterested in that topic all together..... +++++++++++++ It's ironic that Roger's drumming comes up in a thread about "I Can't Live With You," where Roger doesn't even provide drums on the album version. These threads have short attention spans sometimes, so expect to see a lot of that. Nothing wrong with it either, as it can always pulled back to the original topic. |
| And91 28.07.2010 21:53 |
Some time ago I had discovered that if you oopsed the 1997 version of ICLWY , you remove Freddie lead singer (exept in the bridge and the chorus of the song) and you hear the drums clearly highlighted in music. And I believe they have redone the whole ICLWY, except for the vocals, obviously. Here is the oopsed of ICLWY (retake-1997): link Seems like the instrumental version. Unlike other songs, this version oopsed of ICLWY '97 is quite interesting |
| mike hunt 29.07.2010 01:02 |
I guess I'm at fault for making this a roger thread, but my point was that the song and album could have used a better drummer.....sorry roger!.....I disagree that he was never a great drummer. In the 70's he was truly underated. (live killer's anyone?) after that i agree, not so great, but the band still released great songs in the 80's. And later on of course a great album with INNUENDO. |
| rhyeking 29.07.2010 12:13 |
As I noted earlier, by the '80s, they weren't too concerned with "awesome drum fills" so much as "keep the beat" as they had long drifted away from Zeppelin-esque rock to more pop-rock. I'd like to toss Roger's two '80s solo albums into the mix, though. I think there's some great drumming on those. "My Country I & II," "Man Of Fire," "Abandonfire" to name a few. |
| mike hunt 30.07.2010 06:56 |
I understand you're point, but even the rock songs like One vision, Hammer to fall, He doesn't sound all that impressive. He was less powerful and slower. compare those songs with 'let me entertain you' or 'dead on time' brighton rock that's how a great rock drummer suppose to sound like. I understand The drum sound on Jazz wasn't great, but the actual drum work is in another league compared to the 80's rock songs. He aged as a drummer is what I'm getting at. |
| mike hunt 30.07.2010 15:46 |
Rick wrote: mike hunt wrote: The Miracle?....Nah, don't think so. Roger at his best is Sheer Heart attack to News of the world. Jazz has some of his best work as a drummer but the sound messes it up. Really anything from queen to the game has great stuff from him. After that he became average. Just the basic beat, nothing more. Actually, after' the game' i think made in Heaven is roger's best. A nice full drum sound on that one. Songs like Hang On In There and Was It All Worth It have perfect drumming with a perfect sound. But that is just my opinion. I agree with you on Jazz. Awful sound, great drumming. Maybe his best on record. You might be right about the drumming on the miracle. Individually every member shines on that record, but i don't think about it much because the songs arn't great IMO. KS, The miracle, IWIA, Rain must fall and was it all worth it all had great drums.....Even party was good musically. |
| tommycharles 01.08.2010 14:19 |
Having seen this thread I was inspired to check out the re-take of it for the first time, and wow, that does sound better. Those drums are pure Roger. Also, this song is definitely up there with I Want It All on the list of tracks that should have been live classics had history turned out differently... I wonder why Brian never attempted it on the Another World tour... |
| inu-liger 02.08.2010 10:49 |
I had asked a question about this remake over on QOL, and while I sparked an interesting discussion about it, never got a direct answer to my initial question: Was the bass guitar on the remake still Deacy's, or was it (as some rumour went) played by Brian?? I recall back in the day the original queen-fip.com site mentioning that the remake "featured new material from Brian and Roger" but no mention of any Deacy involvement in the remake's production! |
| rhyeking 02.08.2010 19:01 |
Re: Deaky on bass for ICLWY 1997 Re-take There are three possibilities: 1) Yes, John recorded new bass, possibly in the same sessions as the band recorded No One But You that same year, possibly at a different date. 2) No, Brian remixed/re-edited his original bass into the Re-take, as was done with Freddie's vocals. Or left the original bass work untouched and simply mixed it into the Re-take. 3) Brian recorded a new bass line for the Re-take. I don't have any information to support or refute any one of these theories. Someone who plays guitar might be able to listen to the two and tell us whether it sounds like a different bass performance, which would at least eliminate the 2nd possibility. |