| philip storey 22.04.2010 03:37 |
Hello people hope all is well in the land of Queen. Whilst Brian and Roger have often been hailed as great musicians and have inspired others in the rock world. John never seems to get much recognition for his great bass work. In your opinion how good was John and when did he go from plucking the fat strings to using a plectrum ?Would be great to hear your opinions. |
| mike hunt 22.04.2010 03:43 |
I think John was a very good bass player, not an all time great though. I don't think he had a distinctive style that sets him apart from other players, like a geddy lee or steve harris. He was solid though...he gets points for his ability to play different styles. Wasn't a great live player. All in all he was good. |
| Soundfreak 22.04.2010 03:45 |
I'm no friend of "rating" musicians, as there is no good or bad once you have reached a certain level. What I always found amazing about John Deacon is his versatility. He could adopt any style and always found the right amount of notes to fill gaps on stage and give any song a great fundament on records. Be it some of Freddie's Vaudeville excursions or Brian's hard rock songs. It's strange that he did not offer his talent to other musicians very often. |
| The Real Wizard 22.04.2010 10:31 |
mike hunt wrote: "I don't think he had a distinctive style that sets him apart from other players, like a geddy lee or steve harris. " John Deacon was at least as unique as them. Like Roger Taylor, he just wasn't flashy and in-your-face about it. Deacon's bass lines have been described as little stories, and I couldn't agree more. His playing on Sail Away Sweet Sister is amongst the most interesting ever in a rock song. His sense of timing was exquisite, as was his ability to do exactly what was right for the song - nothing more, nothing less. To me, that's what makes an excellent musician. Nothing's worse than someone who overplays. Try covering The Show Must Go On in a band without a bass player, and almost everything will be missing from that first verse. Deacon was an absolute genius. |
| mike hunt 22.04.2010 10:59 |
Sir GH wrote: mike hunt wrote: "I don't think he had a distinctive style that sets him apart from other players, like a geddy lee or steve harris. " John Deacon was at least as unique as them. Like Roger Taylor, he just wasn't flashy and in-your-face about it. Deacon's bass lines have been described as little stories, and I couldn't agree more. His playing on Sail Away Sweet Sister is amongst the most interesting ever in a rock song. His sense of timing was exquisite, as was his ability to do exactly what was right for the song - nothing more, nothing less. To me, that's what makes an excellent musician. Nothing's worse than someone who overplays. Try covering The Show Must Go On in a band without a bass player, and almost everything will be missing from that first verse. Deacon was an absolute genius. Sounds like every member of queen "Playing for the song, nothing more, Nothing less." My favorite bass songs are millionare waltz, fairy feller's masterstroke, As mentioned "sail away sweet sister" Breakthru....He was a good one for sure....Genius?....Not sure about that one. lol. We use that word a little too often. |
| Gregsynth 22.04.2010 11:28 |
I'd rank John as "genius." You know why? Because he knew EXACTLY HOW to play the bass: He never "overplayed" and he knew what lines fit what songs best. He didn't pull a "Yngwie Malmsteen" and try to cram as many notes into a measure, etc. |
| argQ 22.04.2010 12:39 |
Just listen to "The Millionaire Waltz" and then you'll get the answer. John IS a wonderful bass player, musician and songwriter. |
| masterstroke_84 22.04.2010 13:07 |
The fairy fellers... Nuff said. |
| The Real Wizard 22.04.2010 13:12 |
Yes, I say he's a genius. Most rock musicians are half-decent players, some of whom can write great songs. Deacon could do both, and always with class. He wrote seldom, but always turned in a great song. And as a bassist, he was far and beyond most rock players of his time. Most guys just played octaves and fifths, which is essentially doubling the guitar line, adding little to the song. Deacon's playing was always central to the final product. He was a brilliant musician, but probably will never be appreciated as such, because: a) he was in a band with Freddie Mercury, who got most of the attention b) see a) |
| Amazon 22.04.2010 14:26 |
Sir GH wrote:"He was a brilliant musician, but probably will never be appreciated as such, because: a) he was in a band with Freddie Mercury, who got most of the attention b) see a)" Could another reason he doesn't get the attention he deserves be because he's such a quiet personality? Brian, especially in the years following Freddie's death, has been acknowledged as the brilliant guitarist he is, and he's been everywhere, whether it be on American Idol or working on Queen + Paul Rodgers or campaigning for animal rights. Roger has also received the attention he deserves, and he too hasn't been all that quiet. Ultimately, while Freddie was always the most famous figure in Queen, I think the fact that John is kind of the 'forgotten one' (at least in the eyes of the general public) is due almost as much to his reclusive nature as to Freddie. |
| Sebastian 22.04.2010 15:19 |
Great, great bassist. And very underrated too. |
| Micrówave 22.04.2010 17:12 |
You can find a lot of drummers in Roger's class or even better. You can find a lot of guitarists in Brian's class or slightly better. You can even find vocalists with the range of Freddie Mercury (but you have to look real hard) You can compare John Deacon to Geddy Lee and make me laugh pretty hard. You're still going to have a tough time finding someone as solid and groovy as John. He didn't need Taurus pedals either. Anybody ever try to learn the bass lines to Tom Sawyer? I just did while writing this thread. Done. |
| N0_Camping4U 22.04.2010 22:27 |
John Deacon had an enormous amount of talent, I believe he was the most talented in the group. But, what do I know? I'm just a doctor. |
| Micrówave 22.04.2010 23:58 |
I totally agree with you, Doctor. He was also the gadget man. If something wasn't working, they'd give it to John to fix or create. He doesn't have a soapbox, his personal life wasn't always in the press, and if you wore a fur coat to a Seal clubbing party, John probably wouldn't give a damn. You didn't have to drive him around everywhere, like Freddie. He didn't make us stock our CD shelves with half-ass songs calling it a "solo career". The only thing I have against John are those damn shorts from the Wembley tour. Any truth to the rumor that Freddie gave John his Wembley paycheck? |
| skip 23.04.2010 00:15 |
Micrówave wrote: You can find a lot of drummers in Roger's class or even better. You can find a lot of guitarists in Brian's class or slightly better. You can even find vocalists with the range of Freddie Mercury (but you have to look real hard) You can compare John Deacon to Geddy Lee and make me laugh pretty hard. You're still going to have a tough time finding someone as solid and groovy as John. He didn't need Taurus pedals either. Anybody ever try to learn the bass lines to Tom Sawyer? I just did while writing this thread. Done. It's evident you know nothing about Taurus pedals. |
| Sebastian 23.04.2010 00:34 |
Maybe 'you didn't have to drive him around everywhere, like Freddie' for most of his career, but during one year he did have to use the tube. |
| tcc 23.04.2010 00:52 |
Sebastian wrote: Maybe 'you didn't have to drive him around everywhere, like Freddie' for most of his career, but during one year he did have to use the tube. Was it due to a drink driving offence ? |
| Micrówave 23.04.2010 01:12 |
Ah, rare John Deacon factoids. Do tell!!! And yes, Skip, you are the Taurus Pedal man. I encourage all Queenzoners to direct those questions to you. I do, however, have the pedals for my Hammond organ. So if you have any questions about adding low end when you play a B-3, I'd be able to help you out. It's really quite easy, but you have to have your drawbars set correctly or your harmonics will get muddy. I do know that Taurus Pedals had something built it so if you accidentally hit two keys at the same time only one would sound (the lower one). The Hammonds don't have that... better get it right or don't play it!!! Steve Hackett was better at 'em than Geddy Lee. |
| Bo Rhap 23.04.2010 03:01 |
I agree that John is one of the most under-rated bass players and songwriters of all time. I sometimes wonder if John considered himself a soul bass player,rather than a rock bass player.He was talented enough to do both ofcourse. Lets not forget,he wasnt a bad guitarist as witness Staying Power in the Milton Keyens Bowl gig. |
| FriedChicken 23.04.2010 04:24 |
John's basslines are so recognisable. 2 weeks ago I was walking towards a record store and the door was open. I couldn't hear the music they were playing but I could hear the bassline. And I remember thinking "wow, this sounds so Deaky!" And when I entered the shop they were playing These are the Days. If you would listen to the basslines of songs like Sweet Lady or YOu're my Best Friend solo one could wonder how this basspart would fit in a song. But when all the instruments are played it makes perfectly sense. John was an outstanding player, and an outstanding writer. I wonder if he knew... |
| Soundfreak 23.04.2010 06:08 |
Without doubt he was the perfect bass-player for Queen. But what I always found interesting is, how isolated he always looked on stage. I never saw him talking to anybody. Or the other three talking to him. It was a real surprise when he even said some words on the Freddie memorial concert.... Whatever their relation was like...he was perfect for their chemistry. |
| mike hunt 23.04.2010 07:49 |
I'm going on the othe end on this discussion.....a genius bass player is known as such even for the casual fan and often gets mentioned by muscians for generations to come. Has john been called a genius outside of Queenzone?....Freddie yes, brian, yes.... Never heard anyone call john even a brilliant player. Though i have heard players like John Entwistle, Chris Squier call him very good. He's no genius people!....I am a fan though....solid bass player and love his songs. I also don't think john doesn't get his props because of being in the same band as freddie, that's bullshit!....Entwistle gets his props and he was in the same band as Keith Moon, Geddy Lee gets his props and he's in the same band as neil peart. Ect, Ect. As great as he was Freddie wasn't a god.....there was room for other members to shine, and that's why brian's Influence gets bigger over time, and even roger gets mentioned more often these days as a drummer and overall talent. Havn't heard anything about john though, Except that he was good.....But no genius. |
| JacquesDaniels 23.04.2010 09:59 |
skip wrote: Micrówave wrote: You can find a lot of drummers in Roger's class or even better. You can find a lot of guitarists in Brian's class or slightly better. You can even find vocalists with the range of Freddie Mercury (but you have to look real hard) You can compare John Deacon to Geddy Lee and make me laugh pretty hard. You're still going to have a tough time finding someone as solid and groovy as John. He didn't need Taurus pedals either. Anybody ever try to learn the bass lines to Tom Sawyer? I just did while writing this thread. Done. It's evident you know nothing about Taurus pedals. Going off-topic, but... Had to LOL @ reference to Tom Sawyer. You just had to pick one of their easiest songs to prove what? Rush has always been a progrock band, and most of the time Geddy and Alex are the ones usually doing the composing of the songs. There's a whole lot of difficulty in their songs, if you care to find something beyond the few big hits. Try learning La Villa Strangiato or Cygnus X-1. |
| Dane 23.04.2010 10:05 |
Dont forget John progressed a great deal in his career in Queen. And at the peak of his game, he opted for the quiet life. I think he was a very good, creative bass player who could have been brilliant if he wanted to, but really he didn't. A good bassplayer (or guitarist or singer) is not qualified solely by his skills and talent, but also by his/her charisma and performance. John had neither. Great musician and person, just not superstar material. |
| Voice of Reason 2018 23.04.2010 10:26 |
I wouldn't be an expert on this but I do know John has given us a lot of memorable bass lines. From Queen 1 I can think of Keep Yourslef Alive, Great King Rat and Liar. And Queen had a huge hit with a song basically made up of bass, Another One Bites the Dust. If I have made any techincal errors here please feel free to kick my head in - as if you ever needed permission! |
| mike hunt 23.04.2010 10:44 |
JacquesDaniels wrote: skip wrote: Micrówave wrote: You can find a lot of drummers in Roger's class or even better. You can find a lot of guitarists in Brian's class or slightly better. You can even find vocalists with the range of Freddie Mercury (but you have to look real hard) You can compare John Deacon to Geddy Lee and make me laugh pretty hard. You're still going to have a tough time finding someone as solid and groovy as John. He didn't need Taurus pedals either. Anybody ever try to learn the bass lines to Tom Sawyer? I just did while writing this thread. Done. It's evident you know nothing about Taurus pedals. Going off-topic, but... Had to LOL @ reference to Tom Sawyer. You just had to pick one of their easiest songs to prove what? Rush has always been a progrock band, and most of the time Geddy and Alex are the ones usually doing the composing of the songs. There's a whole lot of difficulty in their songs, if you care to find something beyond the few big hits. Try learning La Villa Strangiato or Cygnus X-1. Another example why I dismiss anything this microwave says...out of all the rush songs he picks the biggest hit. he's the type who probably only likes the Queen hits....maybe A night at the opera because it has Bo Rhap on it. ask him if he likes Queen2 or the first album?...of course not, they have no hits. |
| Amazon 23.04.2010 11:09 |
N0_Camping4U wrote:"John Deacon had an enormous amount of talent, I believe he was the most talented in the group." I love John (a terrific bass player and my third favourite song-writer in Queen), but I don't see how you can call him the most talented member of Queen when Brian May, and more significantly, Freddie Mercury were in the same group. mike hunt wrote:"As great as he was Freddie wasn't a god.....there was room for other members to shine, and that's why brian's Influence gets bigger over time, and even roger gets mentioned more often these days as a drummer and overall talent. Havn't heard anything about john though, Except that he was good.....But no genious." Well, I think that Freddie was a god. :D However, I also think that John's not being mentioned so much has alot to do with his being such a quiet personality. Since Freddie's death, both Brian and Roger have been in the public eye much more than John and neither have adopted a quiet life with the family. |
| jamster1111 23.04.2010 11:14 |
Just listen to The Millionaire Waltz and that will give you the answer |
| master marathon runner 23.04.2010 12:16 |
Micrówave wrote: Ah, rare John Deacon factoids. Do tell!!! And yes, Skip, you are the Taurus Pedal man. I encourage all Queenzoners to direct those questions to you. I do, however, have the pedals for my Hammond organ. So if you have any questions about adding low end when you play a B-3, I'd be able to help you out. It's really quite easy, but you have to have your drawbars set correctly or your harmonics will get muddy. I do know that Taurus Pedals had something built it so if you accidentally hit two keys at the same time only one would sound (the lower one). The Hammonds don't have that... better get it right or don't play it!!! Steve Hackett was better at 'em than Geddy Lee. Taurus pedals ?..........................Load o' bull. |
| The Real Wizard 23.04.2010 13:13 |
mike hunt wrote: "a genious bass player is known as such even for the casual fan and often gets mentioned by muscians for generations to come. Has john been called a genious outside of Queenzone?....Freddie yes, brian, yes.... Never heard anyone call john even a brilliant player." It's because it takes more than a casual listen to Queen's music to appreciate the brilliance of John Deacon's playing. Entwistle, Squire, and Lee are in your face. Deacon isn't. And there aren't many people who aren't Queen fans who are going to give a deep and dedicated listen to Queen's records, because Queen unfortunately aren't known as an album band. Ever seen Sabbath fans call Geezer Butler a brilliant bassist? I doubt it., because even they know he isn't. This isn't a case of fans being stepfords. Take it from a professional musician... John Deacon was an absolutely brilliant musician. If you ask a chef about the composition of food and he says something is a brilliant recipe, you're free to disagree, but you'll look foolish if you think the more popular spice is better than the more obscure but superior spice. |
| Sebastian 23.04.2010 13:59 |
Regarding the whole 'people outside QZ/QOL don't call him a genius therefore he isn't', I suppose that means the earth was flat until it was globally (as opposed to rectangularly) recognised it isn't. Also, because nobody's said John hasn't got four legs, it means he has four legs. Oh wait: he's got nine! After all, nobody (inside or outside QZ) has denied it, which makes it categorically true. Regarding the way the basslines are easily identifiable: yes, but remember that many times John would 'only' play them (and often did a marvellous work with that), but not necessarily write them. Same for the other members and their respective functions: not all drum parts played by Roger were written by Roger, etc. There's also a snowball effect there: it's somewhat 'cool' to say Entwistle's a genius (and indeed he was very good but sometimes I think he got a bit overhyped), so more and more people say it. But then again, people also said the earth was flat, the atom was indivisible, the morphology of one's skull determined the personality, the earth was the centre of the universe, Methuselah lived up to 969 years, hoofbeats sound like those in the movies, mice are obsessed with cheese, vikings wore 'devil' helmets, etc... I suppose all those things were true, right? Because fuck the scientific method, knowledge is a matter of democracy! |
| Amazon 23.04.2010 14:47 |
Sebastian wrote:"Because fuck the scientific method, knowledge is a matter of democracy!" No, however the problem with this is that ultimately, whether or not the two Johns are geniuses is subjective. Personally, I don't believe that simply because popular opinion views a musican in a particular way, therefore he is whatever that opinion is, but it is still untimately opinion, and one could in fact argue that in this case, yes, knowledge is a matter of democracy. Personally, I don't believe that Entwistle was a musical genius, althought I do think he was a genius bass player since IMO he was just about the greatest rock bassist of all time, but there is a massive difference between evaluating the talent of Estwistle and Deason (which as I said above is ultimately subjective) and everything else you said, which is is not open to subjective interpretation. |
| mike hunt 23.04.2010 14:51 |
Who ever say's queen wern't an album band needs to listen to the first 8 albums in full. end of story....Listen, sometimes I'll listen to a Queen song and think how underated John is....it could be a song i heard a million times like crazy little thing or You're my best friend....never paid much attention to the bass lines, but all a sudden it hits me how great he was...i guess the only thing we're debating is the word genius. I'm Definitely a fan of his for sure. |
| Amazon 23.04.2010 14:55 |
mike hunt wrote:"Who ever say's queen wern't an album band needs to listen to the first 8 albums in full. end of story...." When you're talking about the general public, they definitely do not view Queen as an album band. They would view Queen as a singles band who also made ANATO and perhaps The Game. Obviously, we will have a different view of them, but the truth is, many non-Queen fans would know the hits, and perhaps not much else. I don't think it's a coincidence that their biggest selling album was their first Greatest Hits album. |
| Gregsynth 23.04.2010 14:56 |
To sum it up: John is an underrated genius! |
| mike hunt 23.04.2010 15:24 |
Gregsynth wrote: To sum it up: John is an underrated genius! Let's just leave it at that...... |
| mike hunt 23.04.2010 15:28 |
Amazon wrote: mike hunt wrote:"Who ever say's queen wern't an album band needs to listen to the first 8 albums in full. end of story...." When you're talking about the general public, they definitely do not view Queen as an album band. They would view Queen as a singles band who also made ANATO and perhaps The Game. Obviously, we will have a different view of them, but the truth is, many non-Queen fans would know the hits, and perhaps not much else. I don't think it's a coincidence that their biggest selling album was their first Greatest Hits album. I think the first greatest hits is still the biggest selling album in the U.K, and the second isn't far behind in the the top 10, The early Queen albums (first 6) really should get more props. When you have bon jovi albums getting more props than queen albums somethings wrong. |
| Crazy LittleThing 23.04.2010 22:09 |
Sir GH wrote: mike hunt wrote: "I don't think he had a distinctive style that sets him apart from other players, like a geddy lee or steve harris. " John Deacon was at least as unique as them. Like Roger Taylor, he just wasn't flashy and in-your-face about it. Deacon's bass lines have been described as little stories, and I couldn't agree more. His playing on Sail Away Sweet Sister is amongst the most interesting ever in a rock song. His sense of timing was exquisite, as was his ability to do exactly what was right for the song - nothing more, nothing less. To me, that's what makes an excellent musician. Nothing's worse than someone who overplays. Try covering The Show Must Go On in a band without a bass player, and almost everything will be missing from that first verse. Deacon was an absolute genius. Crazy Little Thing writes: And there's no other bass player who could have gotten away with wearing the shorts that John wore at the Wembley gig. |
| javigpalao 29.04.2010 16:20 |
Hello friends, In my poinión, John is an exceptional musician, not a virtuoso, but that's only a matter of technique and method. John has a great sense of rhythm, knows how to compose a simple and catchy song (IWTBF), as well as a complex and elaborate (Who needs you, Spread your wings). He knows exactly how to fit in the harmonies of Freddy and Brian, which was not easy, without disturb into the mix, I think he was an expert in the studio. As an engineer arranger, and mixer, I think he's one of the responsibles of some great studio works on mix and mastering as Innuendo or The miracle. John, capable of creating bass lines undoubtedly have marked the Queen's personality as much as the other three members. As you can note on: Radio Gaga from Roger (great bass lines, The show must go on (Freddie/May), Friends WBF (John), or Get Dow Make Love In short, any of the members of Queen had the ability to not only write beautifully, if not do not allow your ego spoil the song. As with groups of virtuosos such as Dream Theater, who despite being great, just boring after a 9-minute song in which all members are doing one solo at a time with the maximum possible number of notes per measure. Fitting perfectly into each song. ... But it's just my opinion. Hope you enjoy. Greetings! |
| USQUEENFAN 29.04.2010 18:31 |
His Bass playing spoke to me listen to his licks on millionare waltz and of course liar and the live version of liar from the 77 earls court gig brilliant fills he and the late great Dee Murray from the Elton John Band were lyrical bass players if thats the correct term for bass speaking to one lol, and many people feel elton went to shit once he split up the classic line up of murray olsson and johnstone well johnstone never really left and olsson has been back since 01 |
| skip 30.04.2010 00:21 |
USQUEENFAN wrote: His Bass playing spoke to me listen to his licks on millionare waltz and of course liar and the live version of liar from the 77 earls court gig brilliant fills he and the late great Dee Murray from the Elton John Band were lyrical bass players if thats the correct term for bass speaking to one lol, and many people feel elton went to shit once he split up the classic line up of murray olsson and johnstone well johnstone never really left and olsson has been back since 01 Dee Murray was a great bass player. |