| kzer_za 23.10.2009 17:38 |
(I meant to put this here the first time but accidentally put in on general...mods, you can delete my general post). The topic about Queen songs on the radio got me thinking about this. It's well-known that Hot Space pretty much ended Queen's career as the US was concerned. The Game had been a huge success in America, and then Hot Space hurt them so much here that they never toured in the US again. While the rest of the world forgave them for Hot Space, the US their career never really took off again. In the US, at least from my experience, almost everyone likes Queen at least somewhat but most people only know their biggest 70s/early 80s hits. I Want it All is a half-exception, but only because of some use in commercials; a lot of people don't even know it's a Queen song. More importantly, only a small minority of people know any of their album tracks at all. So while Queen is respected in the US now after being viewed as something of a joke in America for a long time (as I understand it, I'm only 22), I feel like they still haven't quite recovered from their fall from grace then. Sure they're considered a classic band here now - but compared to other classic bands like The Beatles or Pink Floyd, a lot less people have listened to even a single one of their albums. Or even heard of any of them. I can't help but think that maybe the disaster of Hot Space that made them irrelevant here for years is the reason for this. Let's not turn this into a debate about the quality of 80s Queen please, that's not really the point here. |
| Levon Thyme 24.10.2009 20:32 |
I've never posted before, but I've read this board for years and I've thought about this topic a lot. I believe the answer is no. I was a 10-year-old American kid living in England when Bo Rap exploded. I was hooked. My family moved back to the U.S. in '78 and I continued to follow Queen. At that time in this country, as a teenager, you either liked rock music or soul/dance music. Almost no one where I lived, and I'm guessing in many parts of the country, openly liked both. Clearly that's wrong, it's just the way it was. We don't share the same collective cultural awareness here that you have in the UK...if a single is number 1 in England, everyone is aware of it, from pre-teens to grandparents. It doesn't work that way here. Too many local radio stations played to many different and rigid formats for that to ever happen here. In the late 70's most of my friends here (all of them rock fans) were aware of Queen. Many of them liked the band and had an album or two. They were certainly considered a rock act even if they strayed from the format on the albums. Then came Queen's biggest spell here. Crazy Little Thing Called Love worked because it was a throwback to Elvis, to the 50's, it was a bit of a novelty, a good song, and most people who heard it liked it....at least they didn't really have a reason to hate it. Another One Bites The Dust was next, and here's the twist, I believe Queen's biggest U.S single was the beginning of the end of the huge success. Rock fans considered it "that disco crap", they had their reason to hate it. Soul fans loved it but wouln't ever be interested in News Of The World or A Day at the Races. AOBTD got played, and played, and eventually so very overplayed that the rock fans not only disliked it ..they detested it, resented it and made fun of it. Even "Dust" fans got burned out on the over-exposure. ..we so overdo things here. The next song to hit the radio would have to really rock to win back the old fans, who now had a reason to abandon Queen. We hardcore fans of course never would abandon them, and never haw, but the casual fans were gone. The next song to hit the radio was "Body Language." Game over (pun fully intended) Hot Space was here. I was a Jr. in high school when S came out.. I bought it the day it was released and listened to it right after school at a friend's house. My jaw hit the floor as soon as it started, and I recovered only briefly during Put Out The Fire and Under Pressure. For the record I do like Hot Space now, I did not like it at all then.. I was 16 or 17 and trying to convince everyone that Queen was great. Hot Space was not the evidence I needed. Body Language got some airplay and I was embarrassed every time it came on. I still don't like it, but that's my fault, not Queen's. So that's my answer...Under Pressure had some real credibility, but I remember hearing it referred to on a national TV show as a "Bowie Song"! Queen did not recover from HS in the U.S. I was at University when Break Free came out, and honestly I don't remember ever seeing the video on TV, or ever hearing anyone talk about it. I think it was already over for Queen here. I was thrilled the first time I heard "One Vision:....no one cared. I was thrilled the first time I heard "I Want It All"...no one cared. Queen has regained a lot of credibility here. There are 6 or 7 songs that get play on Classic Rock radio, Including, oddly enough, AOBTD. Most popple love Bho Rhap and Rock You/Champions. I'll never give up on them. I saw Q+PR 12 times in the UK and US in 05 and 08. If they tour again, I'll go again, no matter who sings...but I don't expect my favorites (favourites) to me the faves of too many of my fellow Americans. |
| 12yrslouetta 24.10.2009 21:46 |
Hmmm, This topic will run and run, and has done incidentally with no answer, but I always wonder if this whole Hot Space album "flop" has been made more of than it actually was. Firstly the release, even though it sold relatively poorly next to all their other huge albums,never seemed to have any long term effect in any other musical territories. Secondly it seems odd that their biggest hits in America were Youre my Best Friend, Crazy Little Thing and Another One Bites, and then suddenly after Hot Space in 1982 America finally said "no you arent heavy enough". Im not so sure about that. Of course this is just my opinion and i stand to be corrected, but it seems a little strange |
| The Real Wizard 24.10.2009 23:15 |
Great post, Levon. Post often. Please. This place needs quality people. |
| 4 x Vision 25.10.2009 11:45 |
Agreed, Levon that was educating and sounds like a winner for me. |
| sexmachine 25.10.2009 15:57 |
well, i am not really sure about this because i am from europe, but... the stones released "miss you" and kiss" i was made for loving you", also "disco-crap" for real rock fans and also very popular. both bands didn't release any real good records after that to "win back" the rock fans but they didn't loose their credibility as much as queen. correct me if i'm wrong. |
| The Real Wizard 25.10.2009 17:43 |
sexmachine wrote: well, i am not really sure about this because i am from europe, but... the stones released "miss you" and kiss" i was made for loving you", also "disco-crap" for real rock fans and also very popular. both bands didn't release any real good records after that to "win back" the rock fans but they didn't loose their credibility as much as queen. correct me if i'm wrong. Fair point. But note that Miss You and I Was Made For Loving You came out in 1978 and 1979 respectively when disco was popular, while Body Language came out in 1982 when disco was completely unpopular. The Stones and Kiss were just adapting to the times, while Queen were a couple years too late. Another One Bites The Dust was therefore not so bad in 1980 for Queen's core fans in the US, as they generally hoped it was a slight hiccup and that their next record would be a rock record since disco was falling by the wayside. But it wasn't to be. After Body Language came Ga Ga and Break Free, and that was it. Had they made Hammer To Fall the lead single from The Works, perhaps things may have been a bit different. The success of Dust and Body Language in the pop charts was good in the short term, but ultimately damaging in the long term. But of course, hindsight is always 20/20. Queen more or less conquered the rest of the world in the meantime, anyway. |
| Sheer Brass Neck 25.10.2009 23:41 |
And as I was around when it was happening, Queen lost their rock base because even The Game stuff was a lot different. Queen was a guitar heavy band and then singles like CLTCL, AOBTD, Body Language and even Calling all Girls were hardly rock and barely featured Brian. When the Works came out with Radio Ga Ga as the lead single, that pretty much sealed their fate as a touring and sales success in America. |
| Levon Thyme 26.10.2009 01:13 |
Thanks Sir GH and Van Basten. Sexmachine, I think in Europe you music fans have always had a much greater appreciation for songs outside your favorite genre. We're getting better about that here, but back then, there was very little of it. I too see you point about the Kiss and Stones songs. I don't recall many camplaints about them at the time because they didn't seem to be quite such huge departures. Miss You still had that Stones swagger and I Was Made still had big power chords in the verse. Kiss fans at the time maybe didn't love the Dynasty album as much as the earlier stuff, but they liked it. They were the first concert I ever saw, and it was on that tour, and it was cool. Sir GH I think your follow up to sexmachine is spot on. Body Language was much later and so very,very different from other Queen hits that it just didn't work for much of the US fanbase. I always had so much respect for the earlier stuff that I figured HS was what the band wanted it to be and they'd make more music I liked later. They did. Sheer Brass Neck we're on the same page. Even the stuff from The Game was different, but it wasn't "Body Language" different. I don't remember much talk about Queen at all by the time Ga Ga came out. Queen did just fine without us. |
| mike hunt 26.10.2009 01:41 |
The game was an album that gained Queen a lot of new fans, but the hardcore fan was dissapointed, though most of them still thought it was pretty good. After the game, their best bet was too release a classic Queen album. Instead they go all disco on us. Not very smart of Queen!....They still could have regained their popularity with the works, but the decision to release radio ga ga, and break free as singles was once again a bad choice. "hammer to fall" and "hard life" were betters choices. |
| redspecialusa 26.10.2009 07:24 |
Sir GH wrote: Great post, Levon. Post often. Please. This place needs quality people. Agreed, this has been a great thread to read. I'm an American fan that was born in the mid 80's. Thanks for the insight & info to all. |
| icmrocha (The Man From Planet Marzipan) 26.10.2009 08:59 |
To my eyes (and ears!) it was only a matter of decisions and timing.. Maybe things would be different if they released Hot Space first (1980) and then The Game (1982), and, later on, released Hammer To Fall and It's A Hard Life as singles instead of Gaga And Break Free. Let me add that this is a very good discussion indeed! Quality topic =) |
| 4 x Vision 26.10.2009 10:28 |
Levon T said, "in the UK...if a single is number 1 in England, everyone is aware of it, from pre-teens to grandparents. It doesn't work that way here. Too many local radio stations played to many different and rigid formats for that to ever happen here". This is very interesting to read from a British perspective. I was always under the impression the US charts worked similar to ours back then... even with the US being many times larger. After reading this it made sense to me personally that this could have been the major factor in their declining success. I always just thought it was the Break Free video and refusing to tour, but this could have been what started their demise (in comes background Flash Gordon effects). In the 70s and 80s, I always thought you guys had the Billboard Chart and thought that it was similar to our main UK chart. (Back when getting to Number One meant you had to actually have a degree of success about your single... unlike today where any sucker can hit the top!!!). Such a shame tho, cos the American tour bootlegs we have sounded so much fun and so different to gigs from other parts of the world. I think they played doubly hard in the States to win the crowd/country over during gigs and they would have continued this style mid 80s. (What gems we may have had). |
| Levon Thyme 26.10.2009 11:08 |
Just to clarify. .this is all just my opinion based on what I remember from 30 years ago. We did have charts back then and there was a weekly radio show that was syndicated to local radio stations...if they paid for it they could air it....but there were so many stations that only a fraction of the audience heard it. I remember in England everyone being aware of the new chart when it came out and the new number one when it was announced. People in the US certainly knew the biggest hits, like them or not, but it wasn't the same universal awareness and often appreciation that you had in the UK. When I moved back to the States I just remember how different it was. I remember someone told me Bicycle Race was a single and was in the top 25 and I hadn't even heard it on the radio. |
| USQUEENFAN 06.01.2010 05:20 |
Hey Levon are you my kindered spirit??????????? omg im serious word for word i suffered the same situation in high school with the spike heads and metal heads nothing against judas priest and all other leather cladden showmen but i used to blast the works out of my car stereo in the parking lot of my school and i would especially blast hammer to fall deliberatly so the heaviest of metal fans could hear brians genious but all i would get in return is brian is cool but freddie is a fag and queen arent a heavy band im really please to see especially on you tube more and more US queen fans In awe of the sheer genious of the band and even appreciating the hot space era stuff even today as i type i despise side one of hot space no offence brian roger john and fred, dance music is not my cup of tea but i did and still do love put out the fire and calling all girls i feel once they put out ghIII on dvd and maybe a few live dvds from the 70s 77 houston or earls court or 74 rainbow or 75 hammersmith those alone can show all that queen was the best and most rocking live band ever i remember watching Live aid my friends thought queen was the best band there but we had a major problem in the states capitol emi did not rerelease any of the back catalog and it was becoming more and more difficult to find queen product from elektra/asylum as well that may of had a tad to do with them not getting the recognition they so sorley deserved |
| Levon Thyme 07.01.2010 01:29 |
Hi USQUEENFAN...I think we're close. I think I'm a little older than you so the high school experience was different. Class of 83, I had the tail end of The Game and then Hot Space. I will say that I now like a lot of HS including side one. Staying Power is great...very Earth Wind & Fire. But, yeah, at the time, most other music fans I knew were finished with Queen. Didn't matter, we still had them, right? As I said once before....Queen did just fine without the U.S. fans. |
| e-man 07.01.2010 03:51 |
as much as I think it's Queen's weakest album - I do agree with Mack that it was a little ahead of its time. I can easily envision it being a hit later on, when that type of sound was in fashion. however - had it been a hit - who knows what "The Works" might have been.... |
| mooghead 07.01.2010 15:49 |
It wasn't ahead of its time, just face it, its shit. Queen could have recovered from Hot Space, then some bright spark thought of the 'I Want to Break Free' video. Final nail in the coffin. I Want It All could have created interest but alas, it was the beginning of the end... |
| mooghead 07.01.2010 15:51 |
The biggest compliment Queen ever got as far as the US is concerned is a mention in 'Quantum Leap' |
| *goodco* 07.01.2010 16:02 |
here's a link from two months ago link To the moderators: album comments should be a 'sticky' at the top of each section. Seems that this topic comes up every two months. To the original poster of this thread: perhaps it was the Flash soundtrack (which should have just been an EP). Maybe it was the 'Greatest Hits' release (back then, a GH release almost signified the end of a band), or...............side one of the HS album was crap, and side two missed most of the Queen trademarks. |
| skip 08.01.2010 02:53 |
kzer_za wrote: (I meant to put this here the first time but accidentally put in on general...mods, you can delete my general post). The topic about Queen songs on the radio got me thinking about this. It's well-known that Hot Space pretty much ended Queen's career as the US was concerned. The Game had been a huge success in America, and then Hot Space hurt them so much here that they never toured in the US again. While the rest of the world forgave them for Hot Space, the US their career never really took off again. In the US, at least from my experience, almost everyone likes Queen at least somewhat but most people only know their biggest 70s/early 80s hits. I Want it All is a half-exception, but only because of some use in commercials; a lot of people don't even know it's a Queen song. More importantly, only a small minority of people know any of their album tracks at all. So while Queen is respected in the US now after being viewed as something of a joke in America for a long time (as I understand it, I'm only 22), I feel like they still haven't quite recovered from their fall from grace then. Sure they're considered a classic band here now - but compared to other classic bands like The Beatles or Pink Floyd, a lot less people have listened to even a single one of their albums. Or even heard of any of them. I can't help but think that maybe the disaster of Hot Space that made them irrelevant here for years is the reason for this. Let's not turn this into a debate about the quality of 80s Queen please, that's not really the point here. Although "Another One Bites The Dust" was a big hit in the U.S. and "The Game" sold well there, too, AOBTD's funk/dance style didn't set well with the rock crowd. "Hot Space" was the death of Queen in the U.S. Freddie's homosexuality (his flamboyant behavior) did not go over well with the U.S. If "Hot Space" didn't kill Queen in the U.S., then the video for "I Want To Break Free" took them off of life support. |
| skip 08.01.2010 03:11 |
sexmachine wrote: well, i am not really sure about this because i am from europe, but... the stones released "miss you" and kiss" i was made for loving you", also "disco-crap" for real rock fans and also very popular. both bands didn't release any real good records after that to "win back" the rock fans but they didn't loose their credibility as much as queen. correct me if i'm wrong. 1) KISS put out some great cds after "I Was Made For Loving You": "Creatures Of The Night", "Revenge", "Sonic Boom", for starters. They've also released some great singles: "I Love It Loud", "Lick It Up", "Heaven's On Fire" , "Tears Are Falling", "Crazy Crazy Nights", "Reason To Live", "Hide Your Heart", "Forever" , "God Gave Rock 'n' Roll To You II", "Unholy", "Domino", "Every Time I Look At You", "Jungle", "Psycho Circus", "Modern Day Delilah", "Say Yeah". 2) "Dynasty" wasn't a disco lp, it was a rock lp. "I Was Made For Loving You" wasn't a disco song, it was a rock song that had a dance tempo (the drum beat was in the range of most dance/disco music at that time). The rest of "Dynasty" was not like IWMFLY. 3) Even though "I Was Made For Loving You" is KISS' biggest selling single, they never tried to record IWMFLY II. |
| skip 08.01.2010 03:26 |
Sir GH wrote: Fair point. But note that Miss You and I Was Made For Loving You came out in 1978 and 1979 respectively when disco was popular, while Body Language came out in 1982 when disco was completely unpopular. The Stones and Kiss were just adapting to the times, while Queen were a couple years too late. >>True. KISS weren't afraid to try something different. Although they classify themselves as a rock and roll band, they've recorded songs that have folk/country, dance, metal, rock/hard rock, grunge/alternative, and pop/commercial influences. Sir GH wrote: Another One Bites The Dust was therefore not so bad in 1980 for Queen's core fans in the US, as they generally hoped it was a slight hiccup and that their next record would be a rock record since disco was falling by the wayside. But it wasn't to be. After Body Language came Ga Ga and Break Free, and that was it. Had they made Hammer To Fall the lead single from The Works, perhaps things may have been a bit different. The success of Dust and Body Language in the pop charts was good in the short term, but ultimately damaging in the long term. But of course, hindsight is always 20/20. Queen more or less conquered the rest of the world in the meantime, anyway. >>"Under Pressure" came out before "Body Language". I'm almost positive "Hammer To Fall" was released as the first single in the U.S. HTF was the first song I heard on the radio from the new Queen lp and was the reason why I purchased the lp. |
| skip 08.01.2010 03:32 |
icmrocha (The Man From Planet Marzipan) wrote: To my eyes (and ears!) it was only a matter of decisions and timing.. Maybe things would be different if they released Hot Space first (1980) and then The Game (1982), and, later on, released Hammer To Fall and It's A Hard Life as singles instead of Gaga And Break Free. Let me add that this is a very good discussion indeed! Quality topic =) It wouldn't matter when "Hot Space" was released in the U.S. The songs and music were not what the U.S. (rock audience) was looking for in Queen. Queen going away from their rock roots and turning towards pop didn't sit well here. |
| Sheer Brass Neck 08.01.2010 21:37 |
Skip wrote: "Freddie's homosexuality (his flamboyant behavior) did not go over well with the U.S. If "Hot Space" didn't kill Queen in theU.S., then the video for "I Want To Break Free" took them off of life support. Nice try Skip, but you couldn't be more wrong, unless you believe that a US audience actually accepted and embraced a man wearing multiple ballet outfits as macho at the height of the band's popularity. If they couldn't accept the band dressing up as women, do you think American men went home after a Queen concert in the late 70s saying "that fucking guy in the diamond ballet suit is all man, they rock"? I doubt it very much. Because musically at the time, Queen were nearly peerless as a HARD rock act. Fast forward to the early 80s, Brian May is put of the band as far as a presence and the US audience didn't care for it. End of story, it was all, all, all about the music. |
| skip 09.01.2010 01:09 |
Sheer Brass Neck wrote: Skip wrote:"Freddie's homosexuality (his flamboyant behavior) did not go over well with the U.S. If "Hot Space" didn't kill Queen in the U.S., then the video for "I Want To Break Free" took them off of life support. Nice try Skip, but you couldn't be more wrong, unless you believe that a US audience actually accepted and embraced a man wearing multiple ballet outfits as macho at the height of the band's popularity. If they couldn't accept the band dressing up as women, do you think American men went home after a Queen concert in the late 70s saying "that fucking guy in the diamond ballet suit is all man, they rock"? I doubt it very much. Because musically at the time, Queen were nearly peerless as a HARD rock act. Fast forward to the early 80s, Brian May is put of the band as far as a presence and the US audience didn't care for it. End of story, it was all, all, all about the music. No, I'm absolutely correct. Bible Belt America wanted nothing to do with Queen and Freddie's flamboyant behavior. The video for "I Want To Break Free" was not played. The video for "Body Language" was banned. Queen nearly peerless? Please. KISS, Van Halen, RUSH, Ozzy, Journey, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, AC/DC, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John, etc., were all playing sold out shows in the U.S. Something Queen at that time wasn't doing. Freddie's homosexuality, Freddie's flamboyant behavior, Queen abandoning their trademark sound for disco/funk/pop music, and their refusal to fix things and try again in America ended their career in the U.S. End of story. |
| Gregsynth 09.01.2010 01:17 |
skip wrote:U.S., then the video for "I Want To Break Free" took them off of life support. Nice try Skip, but you couldn't be more wrong, unless you believe that a US audience actually accepted and embraced a man wearing multiple ballet outfits as macho at the height of the band's popularity. If they couldn't accept the band dressing up as women, do you think American men went home after a Queen concert in the late 70s saying "that fucking guy in the diamond ballet suit is all man, they rock"? I doubt it very much. Because musically at the time, Queen were nearly peerless as a HARD rock act. Fast forward to the early 80s, Brian May is put of the band as far as a presence and the US audience didn't care for it. End of story, it was all, all, all about the music. No, I'm absolutely correct. Bible Belt America wanted nothing to do with Queen and Freddie's flamboyant behavior. The video for "I Want To Break Free" was not played. The video for "Body Language" was banned. Queen nearly peerless? Please. KISS, Van Halen, RUSH, Ozzy, Journey, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, AC/DC, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John, etc., were all playing sold out shows in the U.S. Something Queen at that time wasn't doing. Freddie's homosexuality, Freddie's flamboyant behavior, Queen abandoning their trademark sound for disco/funk/pop music, and their refusal to fix things and try again in America ended their career in the U.S. End of story. Freddie's sexuality/flamboyance had NOTHING to do with the commercial decline in the 80s, if that was true, then the US would've turn their backs on Queen in the 70s!Sheer Brass Neck wrote: Skip wrote:"Freddie's homosexuality (his flamboyant behavior) did not go over well with the U.S. If "Hot Space" didn't kill Queen in the |
| skip 09.01.2010 02:01 |
Gregsynth wrote:skip wrote:U.S., then the video for "I Want To Break Free" took them off of life support. Nice try Skip, but you couldn't be more wrong, unless you believe that a US audience actually accepted and embraced a man wearing multiple ballet outfits as macho at the height of the band's popularity. If they couldn't accept the band dressing up as women, do you think American men went home after a Queen concert in the late 70s saying "that fucking guy in the diamond ballet suit is all man, they rock"? I doubt it very much. Because musically at the time, Queen were nearly peerless as a HARD rock act. Fast forward to the early 80s, Brian May is put of the band as far as a presence and the US audience didn't care for it. End of story, it was all, all, all about the music. No, I'm absolutely correct. Bible Belt America wanted nothing to do with Queen and Freddie's flamboyant behavior. The video for "I Want To Break Free" was not played. The video for "Body Language" was banned. Queen nearly peerless? Please. KISS, Van Halen, RUSH, Ozzy, Journey, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, AC/DC, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John, etc., were all playing sold out shows in the U.S. Something Queen at that time wasn't doing. Freddie's homosexuality, Freddie's flamboyant behavior, Queen abandoning their trademark sound for disco/funk/pop music, and their refusal to fix things and try again in America ended their career in the U.S. End of story. Freddie's sexuality/flamboyance had NOTHING to do with the commercial decline in the 80s, if that was true, then the US would've turn their backs on Queen in the 70s!Sheer Brass Neck wrote: Skip wrote:"Freddie's homosexuality (his flamboyant behavior) did not go over well with the U.S. If "Hot Space" didn't kill Queen in the Wrong. In the early/mid '70s glam and androgyny went hand in hand. In the '70s Freddie was coy about his sexuality. When he went all Village People during the "Jazz" tour he wasn't being coy any more. By the time of "Body Language" the majority of rock record buyers new Freddie's secret. When Elton John came out in the '70s he actually quit for awhile because his record sales had dropped. Being a gay rock star in the '70s was not/is not the same as being a gay rock star in the '90s and beyond. Being an out of the closet gay rock star in the '70s was not going to help your career. |
| maxpower 09.01.2010 11:16 |
i have to agree with Gregsynth summed it up very well what annoys me about Queen fans is some (not all) think they were the only rock band in the world. When Queen lost the U.S after Hot Space it wasn't too long for people like Def Leppard to come along with Pyromania & pick up the mantle |
| Gregsynth 09.01.2010 14:53 |
skip wrote:Wrong. In the early/mid '70s glam and androgyny went hand in hand. In the '70s Freddie was coy about his sexuality. When he went all Village People during the "Jazz" tour he wasn't being coy any more. By the time of "Body Language" the majority of rock record buyers new Freddie's secret. When Elton John came out in the '70s he actually quit for awhile because his record sales had dropped. Being a gay rock star in the '70s was not/is not the same as being a gay rock star in the '90s and beyond. Being an out of the closet gay rock star in the '70s was not going to help your career. ==================== You said his "flamboyance" caused the decline in the 80s, that's not even true. What caused the decline was combination of bad promotion, the Hot Space saga, and the homophobic/bible-washer fans from the US crying "Queen's gay" during the "I want to break free" video (they didn't get the cross-dressing jokes in the video). Plus, the bandwagon fans jumping off after The Game.Gregsynth wrote:skip wrote:U.S., then the video for "I Want To Break Free" took them off of life support. Nice try Skip, but you couldn't be more wrong, unless you believe that a US audience actually accepted and embraced a man wearing multiple ballet outfits as macho at the height of the band's popularity. If they couldn't accept the band dressing up as women, do you think American men went home after a Queen concert in the late 70s saying "that fucking guy in the diamond ballet suit is all man, they rock"? I doubt it very much. Because musically at the time, Queen were nearly peerless as a HARD rock act. Fast forward to the early 80s, Brian May is put of the band as far as a presence and the US audience didn't care for it. End of story, it was all, all, all about the music. No, I'm absolutely correct. Bible Belt America wanted nothing to do with Queen and Freddie's flamboyant behavior. The video for "I Want To Break Free" was not played. The video for "Body Language" was banned. Queen nearly peerless? Please. KISS, Van Halen, RUSH, Ozzy, Journey, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, AC/DC, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John, etc., were all playing sold out shows in the U.S. Something Queen at that time wasn't doing. Freddie's homosexuality, Freddie's flamboyant behavior, Queen abandoning their trademark sound for disco/funk/pop music, and their refusal to fix things and try again in America ended their career in the U.S. End of story. Freddie's sexuality/flamboyance had NOTHING to do with the commercial decline in the 80s, if that was true, then the US would've turn their backs on Queen in the 70s!Sheer Brass Neck wrote: Skip wrote:"Freddie's homosexuality (his flamboyant behavior) did not go over well with the U.S. If "Hot Space" didn't kill Queen in the |
| skip 09.01.2010 21:51 |
Gregsynth wrote:==================== You said his "flamboyance" caused the decline in the 80s, that's not even true. What caused the decline was combination of bad promotion, the Hot Space saga, and the homophobic/bible-washer fans from the US crying "Queen's gay" during the "I want to break free" video (they didn't get the cross-dressing jokes in the video). Plus, the bandwagon fans jumping off after The Game.skip wrote:Wrong. In the early/mid '70s glam and androgyny went hand in hand. In the '70s Freddie was coy about his sexuality. When he went all Village People during the "Jazz" tour he wasn't being coy any more. By the time of "Body Language" the majority of rock record buyers new Freddie's secret. When Elton John came out in the '70s he actually quit for awhile because his record sales had dropped. Being a gay rock star in the '70s was not/is not the same as being a gay rock star in the '90s and beyond. Being an out of the closet gay rock star in the '70s was not going to help your career.Gregsynth wrote:skip wrote:U.S., then the video for "I Want To Break Free" took them off of life support. Nice try Skip, but you couldn't be more wrong, unless you believe that a US audience actually accepted and embraced a man wearing multiple ballet outfits as macho at the height of the band's popularity. If they couldn't accept the band dressing up as women, do you think American men went home after a Queen concert in the late 70s saying "that fucking guy in the diamond ballet suit is all man, they rock"? I doubt it very much. Because musically at the time, Queen were nearly peerless as a HARD rock act. Fast forward to the early 80s, Brian May is put of the band as far as a presence and the US audience didn't care for it. End of story, it was all, all, all about the music. No, I'm absolutely correct. Bible Belt America wanted nothing to do with Queen and Freddie's flamboyant behavior. The video for "I Want To Break Free" was not played. The video for "Body Language" was banned. Queen nearly peerless? Please. KISS, Van Halen, RUSH, Ozzy, Journey, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, AC/DC, Fleetwood Mac, Elton John, etc., were all playing sold out shows in the U.S. Something Queen at that time wasn't doing. Freddie's homosexuality, Freddie's flamboyant behavior, Queen abandoning their trademark sound for disco/funk/pop music, and their refusal to fix things and try again in America ended their career in the U.S. End of story. Freddie's sexuality/flamboyance had NOTHING to do with the commercial decline in the 80s, if that was true, then the US would've turn their backs on Queen in the 70s!Sheer Brass Neck wrote: Skip wrote:"Freddie's homosexuality (his flamboyant behavior) did not go over well with the U.S. If "Hot Space" didn't kill Queen in the Man, either you have a reading comprehension issue or you're just thick. Freddie's homosexuality and flamboyant behavior turned off many U.S. fans. End of story. Ever heard of Billy Squier? Ever see his video for "Rock Me Tonight"? Well, here it is if you've never seen it: link His flamboyant behavior in this video single handedly destroyed his musical career. BTW, it was the rock fans who jumped off after "The Game". They didn't like the direction Queen was going in. |
| skip 09.01.2010 21:52 |
maxpower wrote: i have to agree with Gregsynth summed it up very well what annoys me about Queen fans is some (not all) think they were the only rock band in the world. When Queen lost the U.S after Hot Space it wasn't too long for people like Def Leppard to come along with Pyromania & pick up the mantle I believe you are agreeing with the wrong person. |
| Gregsynth 14.01.2010 00:12 |
Hey skip! Brian May HIMSELF said it was the IWTBF video that ruined Queen's momentum in the US. End of story. LMFAO! |
| skip 14.01.2010 01:12 |
Gregsynth wrote: Hey skip! Brian May HIMSELF said it was the IWTBF video that ruined Queen's momentum in the US. End of story. LMFAO! Queen had no momentum in the U.S. after "Hot Space" was released. "Hot Space" was a major flop in the U.S. A flop that resulted in them never recovering in the U.S. End of story. LMFAO! |
| mike hunt 14.01.2010 04:13 |
Skip....how old are you?.....I find it funny that some people on Queenzone who wern't even born in the early 80's think they know why Queen fell out of favor in the us. Skip thinks (Wrongfully) that it was freddie's sexuality that was the problem. Unless you were alive, and living in the us you don't know jack shit, so stop trying to be a know it all Mr. skppy!.....the reason why Queens Decline?.....The change in style that they were doing. Rock fans hated dance music back then, and queen betrayed them by releasing Another on bites the dust. They made tons of new fans with that catchy tune, but the old school fans hated it.....then came hot space......We all know the response to that album. The old school fans went on to new and heavier acts (forgetting about Queen) at this point, and the newer fans who loved AOBTD didn't even like hot space....That's when the decline started, it's all about the music, not sexuality. They still had enough of a fan base to make the top 40 a few times, but the damage was done. |
| Gregsynth 14.01.2010 13:36 |
This is what I don't get: I agree that Hot Space damaged Queen's momentum in the US (but didn't completely destroy it), but there were US HITS on that record. Under Pressure was a top 30 hit, Body Language hit #11, and Calling All Girls hit #60. Even after Hot Space "destroyed Queen in the US," they still had hits: "Radio Ga Ga" (#16). I just refuse to believe that Freddie being Gay/Bi had anything to do with Queen's US downfall. He already admitted being gay in one quote "I'm as gay as a daffodil," and bi in another "I play on the Bisexual thing," people were already aware of his sexuality. I'd say Hot Space damaged Queen in the US, and the lack of "70s Queen sounds" plus the IWTBF video was the icing on the cake. |
| skip 15.01.2010 02:56 |
mike hunt wrote: Skip....how old are you?.....I find it funny that some people on Queenzone who wern't even born in the early 80's think they know why Queen fell out of favor in the us. Skip thinks (Wrongfully) that it was freddie's sexuality that was the problem. Unless you were alive, and living in the us you don't know jack shit, so stop trying to be a know it all Mr. skppy!.....the reason why Queens Decline?.....The change in style that they were doing. Rock fans hated dance music back then, and queen betrayed them by releasing Another on bites the dust. They made tons of new fans with that catchy tune, but the old school fans hated it.....then came hot space......We all know the response to that album. The old school fans went on to new and heavier acts (forgetting about Queen) at this point, and the newer fans who loved AOBTD didn't even like hot space....That's when the decline started, it's all about the music, not sexuality. They still had enough of a fan base to make the top 40 a few times, but the damage was done. I was born in the 1960's, lived in the U.S. my entire life, and lived through Queen's decline in the U.S., dumbass. Freddie's flamboyant behaviour, Queen dropping their trademark sound and going pop/dance/funk ("Another One Bites The Dust" and the "Hot Space" cd), and the video for "I Want To Break Free" pissed off the U.S. rock audience and brought Queen's career to an end in the U.S. Freddie's prancing, just like Billy Squier's prancing, killed both of their careers in the U.S. End of story. |
| skip 15.01.2010 03:18 |
Gregsynth wrote: This is what I don't get: I agree that Hot Space damaged Queen's momentum in the US (but didn't completely destroy it), but there were US HITS on that record. Under Pressure was a top 30 hit, Body Language hit #11, and Calling All Girls hit #60. Even after Hot Space "destroyed Queen in the US," they still had hits: "Radio Ga Ga" (#16). I just refuse to believe that Freddie being Gay/Bi had anything to do with Queen's US downfall. He already admitted being gay in one quote "I'm as gay as a daffodil," and bi in another "I play on the Bisexual thing," people were already aware of his sexuality. I'd say Hot Space damaged Queen in the US, and the lack of "70s Queen sounds" plus the IWTBF video was the icing on the cake. Being a musician in the '70s and '80s and coming out of the closet was not going to help your career. Elton John actually stated that he was quitting after his sales started to decline due to his coming out. Rob Halford didn't come out back then because he knew that it would hurt Priest's career. Chuck Panozzo (Styx) said the same thing. Melissa Etheridge had established her career before she came out. To be a musician in the '70s and to play the androgyny card during the glam era was not going to hurt your career (look at David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler, even Freddie at that time). When Freddie made those states above he made them during the glam era. Those hits you mentioned above were not memorable hits here in the U.S. Ask a U.S. music fan to name a few Queen songs and no one will ever mention "Body Language" or "Calling All Girls". "Radio Ga Ga" most likely wouldn't be mentioned. "Under Pressure" would be mentioned after a long list of '70s hits. Queen's music after "The Game" was not played on U.S. rock radio. U.S. classic rock stations today will only play the '70s hits. BTW, in the U.S. a hit is generally defined as being top 10. Being #30 or #60 is not a hit here. |
| mike hunt 15.01.2010 10:37 |
so in the 70's freddie didn't prance around?....It's all about the music/songs that queen did at the time. Anyway, under pressure was only a top 30 hit, but the staying power is the key to that tune. Why?....because the song was good....Radio gaga americans don't even remember that much. body language?....not at all. Same with calling all girls. |
| The Real Wizard 15.01.2010 13:55 |
skip wrote: To be a musician in the '70s and to play the androgyny card during the glam era was not going to hurt your career (look at David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler, even Freddie at that time). When Freddie made those states above he made them during the glam era. Right. And just look at any picture of him from 1977 and tell me he looked heterosexual. At the height of their US popularity, nobody cared that Freddie was gay. It was Dust and ultimately Hot Space that turned their rock fans off. It had very little to do with Freddie's sexuality, if anything at all. |
| Gregsynth 15.01.2010 15:24 |
Sir GH wrote:My point exactly.skip wrote: To be a musician in the '70s and to play the androgyny card during the glam era was not going to hurt your career (look at David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler, even Freddie at that time). When Freddie made those states above he made them during the glam era.Right. And just look at any picture of him from 1977 and tell me he looked heterosexual. At the height of their US popularity, nobody cared that Freddie was gay. It was Dust and ultimately Hot Space that turned their rock fans off. It had very little to do with Freddie's sexuality, if anything at all. |
| mike hunt 15.01.2010 16:27 |
Gregsynth wrote:Sir GH wrote:My point exactly.skip wrote: To be a musician in the '70s and to play the androgyny card during the glam era was not going to hurt your career (look at David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler, even Freddie at that time). When Freddie made those states above he made them during the glam era.Right. And just look at any picture of him from 1977 and tell me he looked heterosexual. At the height of their US popularity, nobody cared that Freddie was gay. It was Dust and ultimately Hot Space that turned their rock fans off. It had very little to do with Freddie's sexuality, if anything at all. Mine too, it was all about the songs. |
| skip 15.01.2010 21:28 |
mike hunt wrote: so in the 70's freddie didn't prance around?....It's all about the music/songs that queen did at the time. Anyway, under pressure was only a top 30 hit, but the staying power is the key to that tune. Why?....because the song was good....Radio gaga americans don't even remember that much. body language?....not at all. Same with calling all girls. Nobody cared when Freddie was prancing around during the glam era '70s. He was fitting in just like the other bands that were doing the same thing. When Freddie started with the Village People look rock fans in the U.S. were turned off. It was no longer the glam era, it was the disco era. They equated Freddie's moustache and leather biker outfits with the Village People. It wasn't all about the music. He started to flaunt his look and his mannerisms even more during "The Jazz" era, the era where he wasn't trying to hide his sexuality as much as he had earlier in his career. |
| skip 15.01.2010 21:33 |
Sir GH wrote:skip wrote: To be a musician in the '70s and to play the androgyny card during the glam era was not going to hurt your career (look at David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler, even Freddie at that time). When Freddie made those states above he made them during the glam era.Right. And just look at any picture of him from 1977 and tell me he looked heterosexual. At the height of their US popularity, nobody cared that Freddie was gay. It was Dust and ultimately Hot Space that turned their rock fans off. It had very little to do with Freddie's sexuality, if anything at all. Bible belt America were turned off by Freddie's homosexuality. It didn't help Queen's career in the U.S. The musical direction they went in eventually brought an end to their touring in the U.S. |
| skip 15.01.2010 21:35 |
mike hunt wrote:Gregsynth wrote:Mine too, it was all about the songs.Sir GH wrote:My point exactly.skip wrote: To be a musician in the '70s and to play the androgyny card during the glam era was not going to hurt your career (look at David Bowie, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler, even Freddie at that time). When Freddie made those states above he made them during the glam era.Right. And just look at any picture of him from 1977 and tell me he looked heterosexual. At the height of their US popularity, nobody cared that Freddie was gay. It was Dust and ultimately Hot Space that turned their rock fans off. It had very little to do with Freddie's sexuality, if anything at all. Go ask Billy Squier how prancing around acting homosexual in his video made his career sky rocket. |
| Sheer Brass Neck 15.01.2010 22:27 |
Billy Squier's was career suicide BECAUSE of the video. Billy Squier was perceived as a hard rocking guy, no different than any other guy in AOR music. Then to see his prancing? Bye bye men. As a Squier fan, I know he came back with a great vid for All Night Long, a rocking song, and lots of shots featuring girls looking longingly at Billy. Too late as the damage was done. So you're not comparing apples with apples Skip. One guy pranced through the 70s IN A FUCKING DIAMOND ENCRUSTED BALLET OUTFIT!!!!!!!!!!!, and yet you say America only collectively discovered he was gay at Hot Space? Ain't buying it. |
| skip 15.01.2010 23:32 |
Sheer Brass Neck wrote: Billy Squier's was career suicide BECAUSE of the video. Billy Squier was perceived as a hard rocking guy, no different than any other guy in AOR music. Then to see his prancing? Bye bye men. As a Squier fan, I know he came back with a great vid for All Night Long, a rocking song, and lots of shots featuring girls looking longingly at Billy. Too late as the damage was done. So you're not comparing apples with apples Skip. One guy pranced through the 70s IN A FUCKING DIAMOND ENCRUSTED BALLET OUTFIT!!!!!!!!!!!, and yet you say America only collectively discovered he was gay at Hot Space? Ain't buying it. You need to work on your reading comprehension. |
| Sheer Brass Neck 16.01.2010 00:15 |
And you, your writing comprehension. And history. When you say, "then Freddie started with the Village People look rock fans in the U.S. were turned off", you do realize that Queen were the biggest act in America in that very year? Two number one singles, plus a sold out stadium tour. As a guy named Brian May said, they were at the peak of their powers in America, at the very moment that you say "they equated Freddie's moustache and leather biker outfits with the Village People." Freddie had a moustache on The Game inner sleeve and was wearing PVC and biker hats on the Jazz tour (hugely successful BTW.) So please explain why this backlash didn't start sooner if America (like America has a collective gaydar and said, "that guy from Queen is a faggot). Skip, if you beleive it was Freddie's gayness, great. They changed styles, lost their identity and American rock audiences didn't buy Queen as a keyboard heavy pop band. |
| skip 16.01.2010 00:59 |
Sheer Brass Neck wrote: And you, your writing comprehension. And history. When you say, "then Freddie started with the Village People look rock fans in the U.S. were turned off", you do realize that Queen were the biggest act in America in that very year? Two number one singles, plus a sold out stadium tour. As a guy named Brian May said, they were at the peak of their powers in America, at the very moment that you say "they equated Freddie's moustache and leather biker outfits with the Village People." Freddie had a moustache on The Game inner sleeve and was wearing PVC and biker hats on the Jazz tour (hugely successful BTW.) So please explain why this backlash didn't start sooner if America (like America has a collective gaydar and said, "that guy from Queen is a faggot). Skip, if you beleive it was Freddie's gayness, great. They changed styles, lost their identity and American rock audiences didn't buy Queen as a keyboard heavy pop band. Queen have never been the biggest rock act in the U.S. Far from it. Their tours here were relatively short compared to other bands at the time (KISS, Styx, Journey, for example). Their material after "The Game" wasn't a staple on U.S. radio. They stopped playing here after the "Hot Space" tour. I don't know where you got the idea that they had a sold out stadium tour here, but that's absolutely wrong. They played in theaters early on, then arenas, not stadiums here. They weren't big enough to launch a U.S. stadium tour. |
| The Real Wizard 16.01.2010 13:29 |
skip wrote: Bible belt America were turned off by Freddie's homosexuality. It didn't help Queen's career in the U.S. The musical direction they went in eventually brought an end to their touring in the U.S. Correct. It didn't help, but it didn't take away from it either. Look at the picture of Freddie in the A Day At The Races sleeve where he's wearing the white leotard. And... Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy, for crying out loud !? Did these bible-thumpers not pick up on the fact that he was gay? The glam era was long over by 1976, so that can't be used as an excuse. Elton John dressed as Donald Duck in 1980, and nobody cared. He is still worshiped by millions to this day. Today we have artists like Mika, and it's no different. A few people gripe about the fact that someone's gay, but at the end of the day, if the music is good, people still like it. |
| mike hunt 16.01.2010 16:19 |
how about rob halford?....priest was at their biggest in 1982. With all the leather outfits and biker hats. Another one bites the dust was queens biggest hit and the video for that song has freddie prancing around with the stach. It's all about the songs skippy!.....the 80's was popular for the stach look anyway, both gay and straight men. Didn't tom selleck and burt ryenolds both have the same look as freddie? |
| mike hunt 16.01.2010 16:19 |
how about rob halford?....priest was at their biggest in 1982. With all the leather outfits and biker hats. Another one bites the dust was queens biggest hit and the video for that song has freddie prancing around with the stach. It's all about the songs skippy!.....the 80's was popular for the stach look anyway, both gay and straight men. Didn't tom selleck and burt ryenolds both have the same look as freddie? |
| Gregsynth 16.01.2010 16:36 |
Well said! (Mike and Sir GH). |
| skip 16.01.2010 19:08 |
Sir GH wrote:skip wrote: Bible belt America were turned off by Freddie's homosexuality. It didn't help Queen's career in the U.S. The musical direction they went in eventually brought an end to their touring in the U.S.Correct. It didn't help, but it didn't take away from it either. Look at the picture of Freddie in the A Day At The Races sleeve where he's wearing the white leotard. And... Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy, for crying out loud !? Did these bible-thumpers not pick up on the fact that he was gay? The glam era was long over by 1976, so that can't be used as an excuse. Elton John dressed as Donald Duck in 1980, and nobody cared. He is still worshiped by millions to this day. Today we have artists like Mika, and it's no different. A few people gripe about the fact that someone's gay, but at the end of the day, if the music is good, people still like it. As I mentioned before being a gay musician today doesn't mean anything. It did in the '70s and '80s. It could ruin your career back then. RE: white leotard Many of the lead vocalists in the glam rock bands were wearing similiar outfits. It wasn't a big deal during the glam era. That's what made it glam. Elton John had some backlash when he came out of the closet. He announced that he was going to quit the music business. It didn't help that he was a raging alcoholic and coke head at that time. RE: glam era The glam era was still going in the mid '70s. KISS, Sweet, Parliament Funkadelic, etc. |
| skip 16.01.2010 19:14 |
mike hunt wrote: how about rob halford?....priest was at their biggest in 1982. With all the leather outfits and biker hats. Another one bites the dust was queens biggest hit and the video for that song has freddie prancing around with the stach. It's all about the songs skippy!.....the 80's was popular for the stach look anyway, both gay and straight men. Didn't tom selleck and burt ryenolds both have the same look as freddie? The difference between Rob Halford and Freddie Mercury was Rob didn't act like a queen during interviews or during concerts. The look he went for eventually became a symbol of heavy metal. Freddie was influenced by disco and I'm sure he was quite aware of the Village People from all of his gay club experiences. It's not all about the songs, it's also about the image. |
| Gregsynth 17.01.2010 05:05 |
Freddie grew his mustache in 1980--inspired by Glenn Hughes (village people Biker). |
| Gregsynth 19.01.2010 11:20 |
Wikipedia says that "glam rock" was declining by 1975, just a note. Not that it makes a difference. |
| Gregsynth 19.01.2010 11:21 |
Also, we've cited the reasons why Queen lost popularity in the US. How about the revival! BOOM! Hollywood records promoted Queen's back catalog, and Innuendo was successful in the US (and had some radio rock hits as well)! |