| boca 09.05.2009 10:07 |
Ok, here we go. It's well known fact that there were some uncredited musicians that played on Queen albums. Does anybody know who was that, on which albums that happened, and any circumstances that led to that situation? Thanks |
| Penetration_Guru 09.05.2009 10:25 |
Who says it's a well known fact? I can't see any evidence on the sleevenotes... |
| Sebastian 09.05.2009 10:53 |
Album by album: - Queen Debut: There's an uncredited organ (Liar) that could have or could have not been played by the band. I do suspect the band here, because it's also on the demo (suggesting it was an idea by the band and not the staff - btw if you think I copied this from Wikipedia, I was the one who wrote that there in the first place) - Queen II: Uncredited crew singing I Do Like to Be Beside the Seaside (also omitted in the credits, they forgot to mention its composer) at the end of Seven Seas of Rhye. - Sheer Heart Attack & A Night at the Opera: None whatsoever. - A Day at the Races: Uncredited crew singing the final chorus on Teo Torriatte. - News of the World: Uncredited crew singing and clapping We Will Rock You. - Jazz: Uncredited people speaking at the end of Let Me Entertain You. - The Game: Mack played some keyboards (Rock It, for instance). - Flash Gordon: The sleeve doesn't mention which is the orchestra playing (they do mention the conductor, but not the name of the ensemble). I also suspect (but can't prove) Mack played a synth or too. - Hot Space: The horns on Staying Power were produced by Arif Mardin, but it doesn't say who played them (or the name of the brass ensemble or whatever). There's a relatively well-known rumour that David Richards played keyboards (piano? organ? synth?) on Under Pressure, it could easily be true and it could easily be false. Reportedly, Bowie played keys and percussion there as well, which isn't mentioned on the credits. - The Works: I doubt so. - A Kind of Magic: The orchestra playing on Who Wants to Live Forever is credited, but not the one playing on One Year of Love (only the conductor is mentioned). - The Miracle: David Richards played a sampled bass on Scandal. - Innuendo: David Richards programmed the orchestra on Innuendo, the conga percussion on Days of Our Lives and the keyboard sequence on I Can't Live With You. - Made in Heaven: David Richards co-programmed the keyboards on My Life Has Been Saved. Now, according to what Peter Hince once told me, percussion tasks (e.g. tambourines, maracas, handclaps, footstomps) were often taken by whoever was around in the moment (including roadies, producers, engineers, teaboys, girlfriends, acquaintances) and they didn't bother to mention every little thing on the credits. An exception (and that's me speaking, not Mr Hince) is of course Who Needs You, where Brian's credited for maracas and Freddie for cowbell. But then again, many of the percussion overdubs that don't require too much skill (e.g. the clapping on Crazy Little Thing) could have been recorded by anybody inside or outside Queen. When it comes to vocals, I suppose most of them were done by themselves, with certain exceptions (and though I can't prove it, I suspect the end of Rock It is one of them). Oh, and by the way, the fact we 'can't see any evidence on the sleevenotes' is precisely the reason why those are uncredited musicians playing on Queen albums. |
| Negative Creep 09.05.2009 12:47 |
Penetration_Guru wrote: Who says it's a well known fact? I can't see any evidence on the sleevenotes... Presumably you WERE joking with that comment? |
| Penetration_Guru 09.05.2009 19:17 |
I have to confirm whether I was joking????? Idiots.. On the horns, Sebastian - what are the chances that they're performed on a synth to Mardin's arrangement? |
| Sebastian 10.05.2009 00:33 |
I'd never thought about it. Very interesting observation. |
| Winter Land Man 10.05.2009 02:21 |
Now this isn't on the album, but who blows the whistle during Hammer To Fall at Live Aid? That would of been cool on the studio version. I remember I did a good mix a few years back and posted it on this site, a mix of the album version of Hammer To Fall with the Live Aid intro, and some other edits/additions as well. |
| Rick 10.05.2009 04:20 |
"Uncredited crew singing and clapping We Will Rock You." I only heard this recently, but is it possible John sang on this one? I hear him or at least someone who has a voice like his. |
| Bo Rhap 10.05.2009 04:33 |
Sweet Insanity wrote: Now this isn't on the album, but who blows the whistle during Hammer To Fall at Live Aid? That would of been cool on the studio version. I remember I did a good mix a few years back and posted it on this site, a mix of the album version of Hammer To Fall with the Live Aid intro, and some other edits/additions as well. I think John blew the whistle. |
| john bodega 10.05.2009 04:34 |
Sebastian wrote: - The Works: I doubt so.That was a case of the 'Uncredited Demo Button'. |
| cmsdrums 10.05.2009 05:26 |
Interesting that David Richards programmed the congas on .Days Of Our Lives; as a Roger composition I'd always assumed that they may have retained his original loops from his demo version (presuming that he did them on that). Do we know, or think, that Josh Macrae may have played anything like percussion, or programmed stuff on Made In Heaven?? |
| thomasquinn 32989 10.05.2009 05:36 |
cmsdrums wrote: Interesting that David Richards programmed the congas on .Days Of Our Lives; as a Roger composition I'd always assumed that they may have retained his original loops from his demo version (presuming that he did them on that). Do we know, or think, that Josh Macrae may have played anything like percussion, or programmed stuff on Made In Heaven?? Congas are notoriously difficult to record (as are many percussion instruments), so its unlikely that any percussion on his demo would've been of sufficient audio quality to use in the final mix. |
| Penetration_Guru 10.05.2009 06:33 |
Penetration_Guru wrote: On the horns, Sebastian - what are the chances that they're performed on a synth to Mardin's arrangement? A further thought - werent't they "Arranged & produced" by AM? in which case the chances are he's performed them too. |
| Sebastian 10.05.2009 08:21 |
John on WWRY: Yes, he may theoretically be there, as well as tons of other people. Days of Our Lives: The fact Roger composed it doesn't mean he did a demo by himself. It could've easily been first demo'd in the studio with the whole band, and (sampled) congas could've been overdubbed later, intro could've been different at first, etc. Josh Macrae on MIH: Good point. Hard to prove, though, but still a possibility, particularly on Heaven for Everyone. Percussion on DooL: By 1990, technology was more than enough to record HQ percussion instruments, but for that particular case, it was a hell of a lot easier, cheaper and faster to simply programme a track of sampled congas. Rain Must Fall is also mostly sampled stuff. Arif Mardin was a multi-skilled man: he had loads of great abilities, but playing instruments wasn't one of them. He always had people around him to record his arrangements and he concentrated on conducting them. Plus, he favoured live performances, which makes me almost certain that the horns were done 'live' and simultaneously. Putting all of that together, I can assure that the 3-4 horn parts that are there were done by some sort of house band he had in his Sterling Sound studio in New York. I expect we could get some names by looking at contemporary album credits (e.g. Chaka Khan). |
| Winter Land Man 10.05.2009 10:36 |
Who plays the damn harmonica, clarinet, cello, and violin on It's A Hard Life??? |
| Sebastian 10.05.2009 12:37 |
Sweet Insanity wrote: Who plays the damn harmonica, clarinet, cello, and violin on It's A Hard Life??? There's no harmonica, clarinet, cello or violin on It's a Hard Life. |
| Sheer Brass Neck 10.05.2009 13:19 |
Hi Sebastian, having listened to Rock it this morning, I'm interested to hear who you think the voices that at aren't Queen come from. To me, I think it's a case of being used to Freddie being in the mix which is odd for BV's that changes what I'm used to hearing. |
| victor fleitas 10.05.2009 14:16 |
I think Roy Thomas Baker Sings the "6 7 8 9 oclock" part of good old fashioned lover boy... but i think he is credited... xD |
| Sebastian 10.05.2009 14:37 |
Rock It: I've got no idea. It could be anybody: producers, engineers, or just a band member breathing differently or having a cold. Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy: It's Mike Stone, and it's not the counting, but 'hey boy...'. Roy Thomas Baker didn't take part on that album. '...o'clock' is by Freddie. |
| victor fleitas 10.05.2009 15:00 |
Sebastian wrote: Rock It: I've got no idea. It could be anybody: producers, engineers, or just a band member breathing differently or having a cold. Good Old Fashioned Lover Boy: It's Mike Stone, and it's not the counting, but 'hey boy...'. Roy Thomas Baker didn't take part on that album. '...o'clock' is by Freddie. Yeah! your right! thanks for the correction... I remember I read that somewhere a couple of years ago... |
| cmsdrums 10.05.2009 15:04 |
ThomasQuinn wrote:cmsdrums wrote: Interesting that David Richards programmed the congas on .Days Of Our Lives; as a Roger composition I'd always assumed that they may have retained his original loops from his demo version (presuming that he did them on that). Do we know, or think, that Josh Macrae may have played anything like percussion, or programmed stuff on Made In Heaven??Congas are notoriously difficult to record (as are many percussion instruments), so its unlikely that any percussion on his demo would've been of sufficient audio quality to use in the final mix. I'm sure that congas can't be that difficult to record, (I've done it once myself an an album!), especially for quality engineers, producers and musicians working in the top recording studios as recently as the 90's - even on 'demos'. Having said that, I am sure that parts on TATDOOL are samples that are looped as opposed to played 'live' all the way through. |
| Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira 10.05.2009 15:48 |
@ Sebastian (thanks for the good pieces of info). As for the end of Rock It, what are you refering to? Leads or backing vocals? Which part, the very end? Well, if you mean the very end, I would say it still sounds like Roger to me. If you refer to the last "we want some prime jive", about a minute before the end of the track, I would guess it is just the band, but there could be someone else I could not hear. Cheers, Ogre- |
| Sebastian 10.05.2009 17:53 |
Years ago, I used to have 'The Game' DTS tracks, and I thoroughly examined backing vocals for every song. On all the pieces, I was positive that only the band were included, except for Rock It ('we want some prime jive') and maybe the last chorus in Dragon Attack. |
| Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira 10.05.2009 20:56 |
Mmmm, then I know the part you are talking about. It is possible, but I would instinctly think the other way. I have these DTS files here somewhere and I could share them when found. I cannot find them right now, because I am coincidently in the middle of a massive backup. My computer is turning itself off from time to time, so I figured it is time to backup :/ Cheers, Ogre- |
| Arnaldo "Ogre-" Silveira 10.05.2009 22:27 |
Hey, I have just found the DTS files for Rock It and you may be right. On the front right channel, at 3min8s, a difficult to define voice appears. Maybe that is the one you are talking about. I would tend to think it is Brian, but this certainly is not an easy one. It could well be somebody else, member of the band or not. BTW, you've got PM :) Cheers, Ogre- |
| Sebastian 11.05.2009 09:28 |
Thank you. Now: - Front left: 'We want some prime jive' has two voices in falsetto. They're probably coming from the same person, but it's hard to say for sure who's responsible: Roger's the obvious option, probably using a mellower tone than his usual rough one. Mack's synth is easily noticeable here too. - Front right: A nice low voice that is definitely neither May nor Taylor. It's definitely Mercury, single-tracked. - Surround left: Now, the high voice is definitely Roger, which makes me doubt a little about the one in front left, because this one is definitely very 'Rod Stewart-esque', and the other isn't. But then again, any singer can perform differently depending on what they want. There's more than one person singing the low part, one of them is definitely Freddie, the other one's neither May nor Taylor, but can easily be Freddie double-tracking himself. Btw, it's rather obvious here that the rhythm guitar is played by May. Roger's tradition of playing most of the instruments in his own songs seems to have disappeared once he started working on solo and Cross albums. - Surround right: Freddie, double-tracked. Now, May could be there too, but I doubt it. At the end of the day, it looks I was wrong: no outside voices. |
| Voice of Reason 2018 11.05.2009 09:36 |
I played lead guitar on Hammer to Fall and wasn't credited. I told Brian it would be ok so long as he bought me a beer and he did! |
| Micrówave 11.05.2009 11:43 |
cms drums wrote: I'm sure that congas can't be that difficult to record, (I've done it once myself an an album!), I was thinking the same thing about all of Brian's guitar solos. |
| thomasquinn 32989 11.05.2009 12:56 |
cmsdrums wrote:ThomasQuinn wrote:I'm sure that congas can't be that difficult to record, (I've done it once myself an an album!), especially for quality engineers, producers and musicians working in the top recording studios as recently as the 90's - even on 'demos'. Having said that, I am sure that parts on TATDOOL are samples that are looped as opposed to played 'live' all the way through.cmsdrums wrote: Interesting that David Richards programmed the congas on .Days Of Our Lives; as a Roger composition I'd always assumed that they may have retained his original loops from his demo version (presuming that he did them on that). Do we know, or think, that Josh Macrae may have played anything like percussion, or programmed stuff on Made In Heaven??Congas are notoriously difficult to record (as are many percussion instruments), so its unlikely that any percussion on his demo would've been of sufficient audio quality to use in the final mix. Congas produce a broadband tone (meaning one containing a many different frequencie), and thus require careful miking. A single condensator microphone, however, will invariably give a thin sound. At least two would be needed, with careful placement. It could be done, but it would be highly *unlikely* on a demo. |
| Penetration_Guru 11.05.2009 14:59 |
cmsdrums wrote: I am sure that parts on TATDOOL are samples that are looped as opposed to played 'live' all the way through. Interesting, I have the same theory about WWRY.... |
| Sebastian 11.05.2009 16:43 |
Polyphonic samplers didn't exist in 1977. We Will Rock You may have used looping, echo, reverb, phasing or even varispeed, but it didn't have sampling as we know it, and as was employed in Days of Our Lives. |
| kirkpatrickuk 11.05.2009 17:49 |
WWRY is a tape loop. |
| cmsdrums 12.05.2009 07:27 |
Sebastian wrote: Thank you. Now: - Front left: 'We want some prime jive' has two voices in falsetto. They're probably coming from the same person, but it's hard to say for sure who's responsible: Roger's the obvious option, probably using a mellower tone than his usual rough one. Mack's synth is easily noticeable here too. - Front right: A nice low voice that is definitely neither May nor Taylor. It's definitely Mercury, single-tracked. - Surround left: Now, the high voice is definitely Roger, which makes me doubt a little about the one in front left, because this one is definitely very 'Rod Stewart-esque', and the other isn't. But then again, any singer can perform differently depending on what they want. There's more than one person singing the low part, one of them is definitely Freddie, the other one's neither May nor Taylor, but can easily be Freddie double-tracking himself. Btw, it's rather obvious here that the rhythm guitar is played by May. Roger's tradition of playing most of the instruments in his own songs seems to have disappeared once he started working on solo and Cross albums. - Surround right: Freddie, double-tracked. Now, May could be there too, but I doubt it. At the end of the day, it looks I was wrong: no outside voices.Amazingly Rock IT came round on my ipod shuffle out of 6,000 tunes this monring on the way to work! - this raised a further question; Does Roger play the bass on this track? (I don't have the sleeve with me so it could be addressed on there, and so apologies if so) - it certainly doesn't seem like John's style at all. Additionally are you saying that Brian plays rhythm guitar just on the ned parts (feasible) or all the way through the song? It definitely seems like Roger to me on some rhythm parts of the song. Cheers - good to see another healthy discussion about the music rather than who has the biggest cock in hte band or whatever else fascinates some people!! |
| Sebastian 12.05.2009 08:02 |
It does sound totally John to me. Roger could've played bass and rhythm guitar on several of his own songs, but Rock It isn't one of them. |
| cmsdrums 12.05.2009 13:28 |
Sebastian wrote: It does sound totally John to me. Roger could've played bass and rhythm guitar on several of his own songs, but Rock It isn't one of them. Col - I would have expected more of the high notes from John rather than the simpler, far more rhythmic parts on here, but I'm sure you're right - it would just emphasise John's knack for always playing for the song. In addition, I'm sure it would be credited on the sleeve notes if it were Roger. In a similar vein, I recall that the percussive intro part to Rain Must Fall is very much based on the John Deacon track from the Biggles soundtrack - although I haven't directly compared the two, I recall them being very similar in places; do we know if any parts of the Rain Must Fall rhythm are actually the same parts taken from the Deacon track, or just that he had ideas based on the earlier song along a similar vein but The Miracle version is completely new takes?? |
| Sebastian 12.05.2009 14:53 |
I don't think it's the same, but indeed very similar. |
| Penetration_Guru 14.05.2009 19:03 |
Sebastian wrote: Polyphonic samplers didn't exist in 1977. We Will Rock You may have used looping, echo, reverb, phasing or even varispeed, but it didn't have sampling as we know it, and as was employed in Days of Our Lives. Never mind.... |
| 4 x Vision 16.05.2009 22:49 |
Sebastian wrote: Roger's the obvious option, probably using a mellower tone than his usual rough one. This is very interesting... are there other clearer instances where any of the band "edit" there voices to sound better for a particular part of a song (or all of it) ??? More interested in Freddie really? |
| Sebastian 17.05.2009 00:58 |
Freddie was marvellous when it came to adapting his voice to different passages. Just think about Bo Rhap and how he changes during 'gotta leave you all behind and face the truth', starting off very melancholic and ending up more angry than anything; by the time he's on 'Mamma' he's already in the aggressive state: besides being a phenomenal singer, he was a very good actor! That particular topic deserves a lot of research. I've still got very little knowledge about it, but I hope to improve soon(er or later). |
| Sebastian 29.08.2009 08:43 |
Judging by John's ability to play guitar choirs (as he did on Misfire), he could've theoretically added some later on (e.g. Spread Your Wings, Who Needs You, In Only Seven Days... at least one of them). Also, some people have suggested Roger played rhythm since earlier on (e.g. Tenement Funster) rather than Drowse. It could easily be true, and could easily be false. |
| Yara 29.08.2009 09:29 |
Brian says in that documentary about ANATO that Mike Stone is the real unsung hero of the album - I know he's not uncredited in a strict sense, nor a musician who played - except for that line in GOFLB, I guess - on the albums, but a more in-depth view of his work with the band would be really welcomed and a delight to read (or watch). It's slightly off-topic but still in some way related to the core of the thread - very important people behind Queen's sound whose work are not as well known as some of us would wish it to be, perhaps. Do you guys know of any good sources documenting his work with Queen and perhaps even other bands in more depth? What's in the documentary about ANATO sounds too vague. It's great as an introduction about how the album was conceived and recorded, but it doesn't tell or show that much, in fact. |
| Planetgurl 29.08.2009 12:29 |
Penetration_Guru wrote: I have to confirm whether I was joking????? Idiots.. On the horns, Sebastian - what are the chances that they're performed on a synth to Mardin's arrangement?And here's me thinking it was the Muscle Shoals horn section...Thought I'd better check, looked on the vinyl notes and no mention.Mmm... |