| lettherebegene 17.09.2008 16:51 |
Ok...a million people have probably posted this but... Why won't queen release any multitrack masters commercially. from their point of view it's money for old rope and from ours it's bloody fascinating... so what's their problem? Hate to sound so...demanding. But it's SO FRUSTRATING! Any replies or are you all to scared? Haha! x |
| Penetration_Guru 17.09.2008 17:13 |
Because it would make it too easy for samplers. |
| Vali 17.09.2008 18:30 |
they don't want to release any b-side, demo, unknown songs, bbc sessions ... aka the f****** Queen Anthology ... and you suggest the possibility of releasing the multitrack masters? ;) |
| Adam Baboolal 17.09.2008 19:18 |
Sampling - precisely. Imagine every little piece of their songs being utilised in someone elses work, i.e. Brian's guitars or Freddie/Brian/Roger vocal samples. And while that's a lot to deal with in itself, you couldn't really keep a track on people sneakily putting it out in a song. It may be impossible for QP (etc.) to know for sure if something was used. And I know I probably wouldn't like my own tracks to get out in multitrack form. I'd feel a little exposed and I wonder what a famous band would feel like. The same way? Apart from pissed, that is!! Adam. |
| Martin Packer 18.09.2008 04:23 |
That would be kind of viral - in a GOOD way. And wouldn't detract from revenue or, more importantly, the reputation of their body of work. |
| Dane 18.09.2008 06:40 |
The multi's are from a band that does not exist anymore, and they had their time to work with them. I think its time to give these new young people a chance to work with this material, and maybe just maybe some new bands will discover what real music used to sound like. win-win situation imho. |
| lettherebegene 18.09.2008 08:25 |
I think Queen's lawyers are able to figure out if samples are being used! My point is releasing them for private use. Granted i shouldn't really have hold of the leaked tapes in the first place but i have and they are the most amazing thing i think i've ever heard. I just don't see why they won't release them. Sampling could easily be fished out because it'd be the only decent sounding thing in the charts :P. But seriously. They're happy for us to listen to the same old songs but remastered so we can hear new bits (high Def. mixes, anyone?) and listen while Brian dissects the Bo Rap parts on DVD but not listen to the individual parts on itunes or whatever? Call me foolish but I really don't see the problem... |
| lettherebegene 18.09.2008 12:00 |
Also...if people sample the masters doesn't that mean that queen'd make even MORE money through their release? |
| Band Forever 18.09.2008 12:46 |
It would be nice if BM/JD/RT could go back and polish up some of those B sides that seemed to hashed together very quickly, if they were given that extra time and detail could have been considered worthy of another commercial album not just for collectors or Queen enthusiasts like myself. I thought that Hang on In There really had potential to be a big hit until that piano section with Freddie kicks in towards the end and fucked it up, I did love Brians closing guitar licks though played shortly after, this is an example where a little time and polish on this could have paid dividends. RT Hijack My Heart is another commercial track I believe that could have gone on an album, maybe a bit more work/production on this would do the trick also. I can't believe RT did such a great job on Jimmy Nail's 'Love Don't Live Here Anymore' can you imagine Freddie singing that version it would have been amazing!!! I know its considered Pop but quality sells whatever the format. SO QZrs what do you think? |
| Mercury 90 18.09.2008 15:54 |
I think it's just a thing with the art... you know a painter shows the audience just the painted picture and not the drafts he made bevor or he made on the paper he finaly uses... and that's the way a musician things to, I think... the final song in it's mixed form is the piece of art and the artist does not want to destroy the image in showing how he painted it! Alt least I would not want it, because the final product is the art! |
| lettherebegene 18.09.2008 18:19 |
But drafts are rubbish. this isn't a draft. It's part of the finished product! |
| Dane 19.09.2008 04:25 |
Mercury 90 wrote: I think it's just a thing with the art... you know a painter shows the audience just the painted picture and not the drafts he made bevor or he made on the paper he finaly uses... and that's the way a musician things to, I think... the final song in it's mixed form is the piece of art and the artist does not want to destroy the image in showing how he painted it! Alt least I would not want it, because the final product is the art!And yet many art lovers would die to get their hands on early drawings and sketches of almost ANY famous painter. Would be fascinating to see early drafts of the Mona Lisa for example. My point is that when it is established that a song/painting is a brilliant piece of art, NOTHING the artist himself did/made can bring that down. Some time ago I posted an early version of BoRhap vocals. They are really pretty bad and out of key, but that only made the original that more real and deep. (to me) |
| lettherebegene 19.09.2008 06:23 |
it's all about following their journey to the end production. and besides...many multitracks would maybe only have the finished takes on them... |
| Negative Creep 19.09.2008 06:30 |
No big established bands are ever going to start releasing multitracks of big albums. What format would it take? Who's going to buy it apart from a handful of nerds? Plus, I'm sure very few artists would like the idea of amateurs fucking around with the bones of their material. And as previously stated, it would be a minefield in regard to sampling. |
| TerrorOfKnowing 19.09.2008 12:16 |
Negative Creep wrote: No big established bands are ever going to start releasing multitracks of big albums. What format would it take? Who's going to buy it apart from a handful of nerds? Plus, I'm sure very few artists would like the idea of amateurs fucking around with the bones of their material. And as previously stated, it would be a minefield in regard to sampling.Two words: Rock Band. A number of complete albums are available to be downloaded as separate vocal, guitar, bass, drum, and misc tracks in the Rock Band games. For instance Rush's Moving Pictures I know was scheduled to be released. I don't know where that stands now because I don't have the game myself, but just imagine if Queen did something like that. |
| lettherebegene 20.09.2008 05:25 |
Rock band games e.g guitar hero and all that jazz tend not to use original material except for in special circumstances - bonus levels and the like. You can put your own stuff in and it'll separate the tracks but even then it's only 4/5 basics - vocals/bass/guitar and so on. More to the point - a fair few people think the release of multitracks'd be a god thing - we're not all nerds, ya know! |
| Adam Baboolal 21.09.2008 14:08 |
It's not nerdy to be curious about what makes a track what it is. BoRhap is a curiosity and that leaked multi on the web let people delve into what made it such a wonderful piece of work. The enthusiast, like myself, is curious about those tracks in other ways, too. Adam. |
| Cwazy little thing 21.09.2008 15:54 |
ESPECIALLY considering the sort of commercial decisions being made currently regarding the singles boxset, there is ZERO market in comparison for commercially available multi-tracks, and if they wont be making money, they wont be releasing them. Sad truth. The multi-tracks which leaked were wonderful and interesting, but they shouldnt have been available, and if were honest its only a handful of people who really care for them in the grand scheme of things. So yeah, no market for them, and the sampling thing is also a real issue. If the young people of the world need to know what good music sounds like then Queen's hits are available in about a million formats, with the million and 1st format due later this year! |
| lettherebegene 21.09.2008 17:09 |
it's just so. frustrating! short of breaking in somewhere and stealing them there's not much we can do. and i don't even know where they're kept. Imagine the vocal tracks for somebody to love though!!! |
| Adam Baboolal 21.09.2008 17:35 |
Here's an idea..! What if...the copies that are made of the album tracks (in completed form) at the studio could be used in a special presentation. A tour of a particular place where people could be invited 2-3 times a week to hear a selection of tracks on a paid tour. Yes...paid tour. In other words, fans could get the chance to hear these tracks in their most basic form. Safe and profitable while letting fans hear their most favoured bands' work. I would pay for that privilege. It's a thought... Adam. |
| lettherebegene 21.09.2008 17:50 |
wouldn't work. the bo rhap tapes alone are over 2 hours long...Good idea though! I''d pay too haha |
| john bodega 21.09.2008 23:24 |
It's quite unbelieveable.. The only reason this thread exists is because we have some multitracks that have leaked, and it's not enough for some people :P How many other bands release multitracks of their work? Pretty much none of them.. bet you that most of them have been leaked without artist approval. I don't like that, of course... I wouldn't mind throwing multitracks around if I were ever in the position that people actually wanted to hear me (!). And a few years back, some band released a few of their songs as Garageband files. Could've just been a shallow Apple advertisement but the point is that they were nice enough to do it. |
| lettherebegene 22.09.2008 02:56 |
Course it's a bit hopeful. If anyone wants to hear my bands multi tracks then they can feel free - 2 rhythm guitar tracks, one lead gtr, one bass, 2 vocal takes, some overdubbed harmonies and each of my separate drums for every song! haha. What do you mean you're not interested?!? It really does only work if you're heavily into the band in question...think i've just proved that... I do think, however that there are enough people that are interested to make it a worthwhile venture for the band... |
| john bodega 23.09.2008 01:22 |
A huge band, I mean awesomely huge... could possibly expect to make a bit of money by offering multitrack versions of their songs. But probably not much money. I don't know what insane number of copies that Greatest Hits 1 has sold since it came out... let's say something like 100 million for arguments sake. 100 million people who liked Queen's music forked out for that album. You can almost be certain that not all 100 million of them were audio engineers, people who like to remix music, or people that would know what to do with a multitrack if they got it. This sort of thing is really only fun for enthusiasts. I had great fun with the Bohemian Rhapsody tapes; it finally allowed me to do the solo on Youtube without having to play to a shitty MIDI backing, to play to dead air, or play along with the original (which is cheating!). I love it when these things leak, but you can pretty much forget ever being able to buy them. I'm just hanging out for the day that Pink Floyd stuff starts to leak out..... |
| lettherebegene 23.09.2008 13:40 |
Leak them all! If there is a god it WILL happen. Let's just hope we find the ones for the dark side of the moon too! haha |
| lettherebegene 26.09.2008 06:22 |
i say that there should be a poll for the one song we want to hear the multitracks of and they should put them up for download |
| Micrówave 26.09.2008 17:45 |
lettherebegene wrote: Also...if people sample the masters doesn't that mean that queen'd make even MORE money through their release?Yes. But that's QPL for ya. They want to count the money NOW, not later. |
| Penetration_Guru 26.09.2008 18:03 |
lettherebegene wrote: i say that there should be a poll for the one song we want to hear the multitracks of and they should put them up for downloadEr, had they done so, the song that would have won would be one of the four that are already out, so we'd all be three songs down on the current position. Not entirely sure you've thought that through. |
| john bodega 27.09.2008 02:04 |
Honestly; I really do not think that releasing multitracks would turn a profit. The only way would be to sell in it in a format that will also play the song in very high quality 'as you remember it'. Otherwise the average listener would have no use for it. It'd be bought by completists and remixers.... and that's it. Besides which, I don't think my idea would work. If multitracks were released in a format whereby you could either tinker or listen to it 'as intended', most people would just see it as an expensive re-issue. Maybe if I write David Gilmour a letter he'll send me "Meddle". Thoughts? :) |
| Marcos Napier 27.09.2008 12:01 |
Masters aren't exactly useful for the traditional fan, except for those that are interested in remixing or audio engineering, or the completists that buy anything under a certain brand (no this isn't a pun). It would be expensive to make, distribute and sell, and won't be profitable. It would be a great idea for some of us to have access to some of that stuff, but for the band's bank accounts it won't work. There are also the obvious risks of having the material "stolen" and reused to death, and depending on the band's (or their lawyers) policies about it, it would be a mess to hunt down all these "thieves". Something I was thinking when playing a bit with some of these multitracks of other artists is that I noticed that sometimes certain songs sound much better if they had just done something different in the mix - less guitars, a simpler drum, etc. etc. And this can annoy a lot of famous producers... |
| lettherebegene 27.09.2008 13:18 |
But...surely it's only the people interested in the masters that'd vote - and if people are interested then they've already got that one song...? |
| john bodega 27.09.2008 23:43 |
I for one know that "Memory Almost Full" would've been a decent album if Macca hadn't killed it with almost retarded levels of compression. I *SUCK* at mixing and even I wouldn't have done such a hatchet job.... |
| Marcos Napier 28.09.2008 13:07 |
There's a big debate going on now in the Metallica forums, they seem to have messed up real bad with the sound quality of their new album, and they released a "better" version for Guitar Hero or something. The record label say they didn't do anything, Rick Rubin has nothing to say... but there is a difference. I guess one of the problems of the "80's sound" is a bit related to this - they had to compress the sound to suit some technical stuff of the FM radio broadcasts, and all these songs sound "strange" compared to 70's albums - it's all in the compression. Now they are using this same compression to achieve louder and louder sounds, to make your band sound more powerful and "better" than the others. In some songs, there are just too many things to be played all at once - and they squeeze everything up in a very compressed mix, this is why some songs of these master tracks sound way better when "stripped down". When I first started playing a bit with audio softwares, I used to get every possible VST plugin I could, and also... use them all at once which made everything sound awful. Technology is amazing - only if you know how to use it. Having the best studio gear doesn't make you the best audio engineer (mostly when your "material" - the band - sucks). |
| mooghead 02.10.2008 04:19 |
Its Rubin, he did the same thing to Californication. He thinks that rock music should be a big wall of sound with no sonic depth to it. He is a numpty. Yes, a numpty. |
| Holly2003 02.10.2008 06:10 |
Marcos Napier wrote: Masters aren't exactly useful for the traditional fan, except for those that are interested in remixing or audio engineering, or the completists that buy anything under a certain brand (no this isn't a pun). It would be expensive to make, distribute and sell, and won't be profitable. It would be a great idea for some of us to have access to some of that stuff, but for the band's bank accounts it won't work. There are also the obvious risks of having the material "stolen" and reused to death, and depending on the band's (or their lawyers) policies about it, it would be a mess to hunt down all these "thieves". Something I was thinking when playing a bit with some of these multitracks of other artists is that I noticed that sometimes certain songs sound much better if they had just done something different in the mix - less guitars, a simpler drum, etc. etc. And this can annoy a lot of famous producers... Depends what you mean by useful. The master that had the "Oh Rock of Ages" choral section of Brighton Rock is the best Queen product I've heard for a long long time. |
| Marcos Napier 02.10.2008 11:28 |
And how useful is that? I don't get it. |
| Fireplace 04.10.2008 11:44 |
Holly2003 wrote: Depends what you mean by useful. The master that had the "Oh Rock of Ages" choral section of Brighton Rock is the best Queen product I've heard for a long long time. Funny you singled that one out. I've been lsitening to that particular segment over and over again, as far as harmonies go it's sheer perfection. The multitracks are not only of interest to remixers, but also for fans who just want to know how they constructed their songs. |
| Marcos Napier 04.10.2008 13:01 |
That's the point, it's not interesting to all the fans to justify a commercial release. |
| turini 04.10.2008 13:37 |
i have the master to Killer Queen and Bohemian |
| Penetration_Guru 04.10.2008 16:38 |
turini wrote: i have the master to Killer Queen and Bohemian I've heard the Titanic has hit an iceberg |
| john bodega 05.10.2008 01:58 |
I'm with you guys on the Rock of Ages bit, I was deconstructing Brighton Rock for a video that I never finished, and man! That bit is gold. Having said that, multitracks in their current form will always be a niche thing that the ugly masses wouldn't appreciate even if they could buy them for a good price. |
| Dane 08.10.2008 09:55 |
I have to admit I've been looping that chorus for about an hour myself. Great stuff, though a huge shame it is entirely on one track, so you can never listen to the individual vocal parts. I have recreated that piece pretty accurate. Couldn't have done that without the multi. |
| lettherebegene 03.11.2008 07:17 |
It's fascinating! You hear bits that you've never heard before and the best thing is that you get to hear them in isolation. Anyone got any idea how the originals got leaked in the first place?!? |