| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 08.10.2007 21:49 |
Hello, I do hope you enjoy these 2 minutes Queen in Monterrey video, on the 26th Anniversary of their shows in México. It will be available on this link only until October 19 th. It was filmed from the right side of the stadium with a fixed movie camera (not different angles) .In fact some people’s heads can be seen passing in front of the camera. (The footage isn’t properly synched to the audio). Queen in Mèxico 26th anniversary: link Regards, Hola: Espero disfruten estos dos minutos de Queen en Monterrey en el Aniversario 26 de esta presentación. Sólo estará disponible hasta el 19 de octubre . Fue realizado con una cámara de cine fija desde el lado derecho del estadio. Pueden ver cabezas de personas pasando enfrente de la cámara.(La imagen no está sicronizada con el audio). 26 Aniversario de Queen en Mèxico: link Saludos. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 08.10.2007 21:58 |
Hello, Take a look at this backstage pass. The names of some cities in México can be seen such as Guadalajara, so we can confirm that Queen were originally going to play there too, but in the end this show was cancelled. It’s a pity! Regards, link Hola: Vean este pase, aparecen varias ciudades en México y entre ellas Guadalajara, por lo que se confirma que Queen originalmente tocaría allí, pero finalmente fue cancelado ese concierto. ¡Lástima! Saludos. link |
| NoOneButMe 09.10.2007 00:12 |
Anybody can make such a "concert backstage pass" like that in these days and in earlier years, so I don´t think this one is real. Sorry, we need more realistic and confirmed stuff. Cualquiera puede crear un "backstage pass" del concierto en estos días y en años anteriores, así que no creo que sea verdadero. Lo siento pero necesitamos material mas realista y confirmado. Saludos. Rafael León, México. |
| Marknow 09.10.2007 08:42 |
Are the VHS masters that blurry and Jumpy? Or is it a youtube quality thing? |
| Jeroen 09.10.2007 09:14 |
Marknow wrote: Are the VHS masters that blurry and Jumpy? Or is it a youtube quality thing?Do you realy think that after years of teasing they will all of the sudden give us something decent? The quality of YouTube is never good. But jumping looks like an artificial enhancement. In other words the quality was diminished on purpose. Oh, yes, and indeed that 'pass' is the fakest of all the fakes ever seen. The person that made it didn't even try to make it look genuine. Even in Mexico sure passes aren't printed in Microsoft Word (as this one obviously is). But thanks for the present! |
| Oszmercury 09.10.2007 10:25 |
Why 2 minutes?, well i'm not complain, but some people has leaked some great stuff, why Queen mexico can't? well that's my opinion and i'm from mexico by the way peace |
| Rompez 09.10.2007 11:37 |
2 minutes? That's too long and borring - I want another 2 sec. snippet! |
| Wiley 09.10.2007 11:48 |
Oszmercury wrote: Why 2 minutes?, well i'm not complain, but some people has leaked some great stuff, why Queen mexico can't? well that's my opinion and i'm from mexico by the way peaceYes, I have never understood this. No wonder we have a bad reputation in the Queen trading community. I am from Villahermosa, Tabasco, Mexico but I live in Monterrey, by the way. My dad was in that concert back in '81. I was less than two months old :). Hello to all! |
| Penetration_Guru 09.10.2007 12:27 |
That's a faked pass. |
| The Real Wizard 09.10.2007 13:11 |
Oszmercury wrote: Why 2 minutes?, well i'm not complain, but some people has leaked some great stuff, why Queen mexico can't?Because people like Francisco are selfish and have great pleasure in hoarding their "precious" recordings just so that only they can enjoy them. Funny... the "Mexico fan club" watermark is there to make it appear as if it's the legitimate property of the fan club. Nice try, buddy. At this rate, we'll have the whole video in about 30 years. Keep the clips coming. |
| Rick 09.10.2007 15:00 |
26th Anniversary Video. :') That makes Queen Rock Montreal like the best title ever. |
| Bobby_brown 09.10.2007 15:39 |
We have plenty of Queen videos to watch, and we still have a great comunity here on Queenzone. Let´s respect that he doesn´t want to share it or to trade it and move on. It´s not that serious! Maybe one day he will change his mind. Take care |
| Richy Mercury 09.10.2007 16:08 |
Yes, let him keep the video to himself. It might make up for his small pecker size. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 16:29 |
Hello! Enter this link so that you can check the authenticity of the backstage pass and the reason for it was not used: link The point is not trying to convince anybody but to share information about the concerts in México. If anybody might think this is just a joke , well, then that is not my problem.I have some other more important things to do than wasting my time pretending to make /post fake things. Unfortunately much of the Queen in México stuff was scarce and had got poor quality, it was not made properly since the Queen shows had already been announced in México before and then, later on they had been cancelled. So finally, when the concerts were confirmed and held , the memorabilia (t-shirts & small cardboard banners) lacked any quality at all.In México there was not a music/concerts industry as you know it today.The concerts Queen gave in México were the first massive ones in our country. Regards, |
| The Real Wizard 09.10.2007 16:50 |
Bobby_brown wrote: We have plenty of Queen videos to watch, and we still have a great comunity here on Queenzone. Let´s respect that he doesn´t want to share it or to trade it and move on. It´s not that serious!You're right... but if he doesn't want to share all of it, then he might as well not share it at all. It's like a child taunting his friends with a toy or a piece of cake. It's immature, and it's pathetic. If they were high quality shares, that would be one thing... but these YouTube clips are awful. FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote: The point is not trying to convince anybody but to share information about the concerts in México.If that's the case, then share the whole video, so you can share all the information - not just a small portion of it. Then people will thank you. Right now, they're not too impressed with the way you're making it public that you're hoarding a video, and watermarking it, as if you legitimately own it. Why are you choosing to do it like this? I'm sure many people share my thoughts, but they aren't voicing them, out of fear that the "sharing" (if that's what you want to call it) will stop. But as usual, I'm happy to speak on behalf of whoever feels at least similarly to how I feel. |
| Penetration_Guru 09.10.2007 17:41 |
FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote: Hello! Enter this link so that you can check the authenticity of the backstage pass and the reason for it was not used: link The point is not trying to convince anybody but to share information about the concerts in México. If anybody might think this is just a joke , well, then that is not my problem.I have some other more important things to do than wasting my time pretending to make /post fake things. Unfortunately much of the Queen in México stuff was scarce and had got poor quality, it was not made properly since the Queen shows had already been announced in México before and then, later on they had been cancelled. So finally, when the concerts were confirmed and held , the memorabilia (t-shirts & small cardboard banners) lacked any quality at all.In México there was not a music/concerts industry as you know it today.The concerts Queen gave in México were the first massive ones in our country. Regards,Call that proof???? It's proof that Roger had a Hitler fetish as much as anything.... |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:11 |
NoOneButMe wrote: Anybody can make such a "concert backstage pass" like that in these days and in earlier years, so I don´t think this one is real. Sorry, we need more realistic and confirmed stuff. Cualquiera puede crear un "backstage pass" del concierto en estos días y en años anteriores, así que no creo que sea verdadero. Lo siento pero necesitamos material mas realista y confirmado. Saludos. Rafael León, México.The following replies should not be taken personally , I have been called many things therefore this is what I think. Somebody has talked about me in many ways : nuts, selfish etc. and some other different things. As long as I am allowed to upload this kina of things , I’ll keep on doing it. I doubt I will upload something else on October 17th or 18th, maybe somebody else, but certainly not me. I knew some people would be upset for this video but I just wouldn´t overlook such an important date. Some people like talking cheap, O.K. talk then. Las respuestas que les doy no son personales ya me tacharon de varias cosas y he aquí mis respuestas. Ya alguien hizo alusión a mi persona de diversas formas : demente, egoísta y varias cosas más . Mientras me permitan seguir subiendo este tipo de cosas lo voy a seguir haciendo no crean que el 17 o 18 de octubre se va a subir algo, quizás alguien más pero yo no. Ya se que se iban a enojar pero no por ello iba a dejar pasar por alto esta fecha. A la gente le gusta hablar, hay que dejar que lo hagan. I do not need any kind of real stuff since I was there myself, it’sn not just that somebody had told me anything about it. As I said before, José Luis Pluma saw these backstage passes when they were being designed…that was 26 years ago, he was there and if you don’t want to believe in what he says , thet’s your business. José Luis Pluma is a well known old rock press person in México, with over 40 years in the business. Yo no necesito "material realista" ya que yo estuve ahí, nadie me lo platicó. Como antes dije José Luis Pluma vió estos backstage passes cuando los estaban diseñando ….esto fue hace 26 años, el estuvo ahí ya si no quieres creer en su palabra es cosa tuya, José Luis Pluma es un veterano del rock en México, con una carrera de mas de 40 años. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:12 |
Marknow wrote: Are the VHS masters that blurry and Jumpy? Or is it a youtube quality thing?I only have a copy in DVD and the quality is exactly the same. Sólo tengo una copia en DVD y así es la calidad. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:13 |
Jeroen wrote:I don´t have any time to spoil the quality of any stuff , I do have time to include the Queen Fan Club Mexico watermark , but that’s all.Marknow wrote: Are the VHS masters that blurry and Jumpy? Or is it a youtube quality thing?Do you realy think that after years of teasing they will all of the sudden give us something decent? The quality of YouTube is never good. But jumping looks like an artificial enhancement. In other words the quality was diminished on purpose. Oh, yes, and indeed that 'pass' is the fakest of all the fakes ever seen. The person that made it didn't even try to make it look genuine. Even in Mexico sure passes aren't printed in Microsoft Word (as this one obviously is). But thanks for the present! As I said before, José Luis Pluma saw these backstage passes when they were being designed…that was 26 years ago, he was there and if you don’t want to believe in what he says , thet’s your business. José Luis Pluma is a well known old rock press person in México, with over 40 years in the business. No tengo tiempo para estar degradando la calidad de las cosas, si para poner la leyenda Queen Fan Club Mexico, pero nada más. Como antes dije José Luis Pluma vio estos backstage passes cuando los estaban diseñando ….esto fue hace 26 años, el estuvo ahí ya si no quieres creer en su palabra es cosa tuya, José Luis Pluma es un veterano del rock en México, con una carrera de mas de 40 años |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:14 |
Oszmercury wrote: Why 2 minutes?, well i'm not complain, but some people has leaked some great stuff, why Queen mexico can't? well that's my opinion and i'm from mexico by the way peaceTú eres un ejemplo de la juventud actual, que piensa que solo hay que oprimir un botón para bajar todo a su compu, celular o ipod. Aunque yo suene a vetarro, no idea tienes del trabajo que costo juntar el dinero y arriesgarse a ir al concierto, porque no es como ahora que es como ir al cine. Literalmente antes te jugabas el pellejo, o te golpeaban, asaltaban o se cancelaba el concierto sin reembolso de ningún tipo. la gente se quedaba acampando pasando hambre y frío, ni había transporte suficiente par ir allá y menos para regresar. Ni pensar en arriesgar a llevar una grabadora escondida ya que eran gigantes, y menos una cámara de cine (no existían las videocámaras ni los celulares) y cada rollo de película para la cámara de cine de 8, super8, 16 mm o 35 mm costaba $450.00 pesos el mas económico (sin sonido), porque había con o sin sonido , (el boleto costo $370.00) y filmar todo el concierto requería al menos de 30 rollos de película,¡¡ $13.500 pesos de aquella época!!!! o el equivalente a la entrada de 36 personas… mas el costo de revelado de cada rollo. ¿Para que te arriesgaras a que te confiscaran todo en la entrada o te rompieran la camara?, eran puros granaderos los encargados de la “seguridad”. Eran otros tiempos no había educación respecto a los conciertos, no había ticket master, ni compra por teléfono, ni tarjeta de crédito, ni boletos numerados, ni secciones, en el área de piso estábamos sobre piedras y tierra porque fue el único sitio donde la autoridades permitieron el concierto. ¿Y me preguntas que porque dos minutos?? ¡¡Vaya!! |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:15 |
Rompez wrote: 2 minutes? That's too long and borring - I want another 2 sec. snippet!Right, and so much fussing for such a boring concert? Sí, y por un concierto aburrido ¿tanto lío? |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:15 |
Wiley wrote:You are just another example of the youth these days who think that it only takes a “click” to download anything they want either to the PC, mobile phone, or Ipod.Oszmercury wrote: Why 2 minutes?, well i'm not complain, but some people has leaked some great stuff, why Queen mexico can't? well that's my opinion and i'm from mexico by the way peaceYes, I have never understood this. No wonder we have a bad reputation in the Queen trading community. I am from Villahermosa, Tabasco, Mexico but I live in Monterrey, by the way. My dad was in that concert back in '81. I was less than two months old :). Hello to all! Tú eres otro ejemplo de la juventud actual, que piensa que solo hay que oprimir un botón para bajar todo a su compu, celular o Ipod. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:15 |
Penetration_Guru wrote: That's a faked pass.Do you happen to be some of those people who have bought fake items on the net sometime? I don´t blame you, it must be really frustrating to be cheated like that. Whatever, you should be hired in order to find put Lady Di’s death, with only a couple of picture you have made up a wise diagnosis …¡great! And what’s more, not having held the backstage in your hands, you are a wasted talent. ¡Acaso eres de los que ha comprador alguna vez cosas falsas en la red y ahora crees que todo lo es? No te culpo, debe ser frustrante el que te vean la cara. Lo que tu digas, deberían contratarte para investigar la muerte de Lady Di, con solo un par de imagenes ya hiciste un sesudo diagnóstico…¡¡extraordinario,!! y sin haber tenido el pase en tus manos, eres un talento desperdiciado. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:18 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Wow! Another expert talking!Oszmercury wrote: Why 2 minutes?, well i'm not complain, but some people has leaked some great stuff, why Queen mexico can't?Because people like Francisco are selfish and have great pleasure in hoarding their "precious" recordings just so that only they can enjoy them. Funny... the "Mexico fan club" watermark is there to make it appear as if it's the legitimate property of the fan club. Nice try, buddy. At this rate, we'll have the whole video in about 30 years. Keep the clips coming. Ah!! Otro especialista. If you want to take things like that, that’s your choice, I can´t do anything about it. That´s one of the reasons for I will withdraw the video in a few days time, to stop bothering other Queenzoners with these kind of complaints. Si eso es lo que tu crees, no puedo hacer nada al respecto. Para evitarles mas molestias en este espacio con este tipo de quejas retiraré el video en unos dias. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:21 |
<font color=blue>Rick wrote: 26th Anniversary Video. :') That makes Queen Rock Montreal like the best title ever.Definitely. Who would get to think the Queen concerts in México were supposed to be filmed , but in the end they were not due to technical problems. Sin duda. Y pensar que los conciertos de México iban a ser filmados pero por problemas técnicos no se hizo. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:21 |
Richy Mercury wrote: Yes, let him keep the video to himself. It might make up for his small pecker size.¿Aren´t you looking at yourself in the mirror? ¿No estás viéndote en un espejo? |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:23 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Whatever…it reminds me of a little child throwing a tantrum just because he doesn´t get the lollipop he longs for.Bobby_brown wrote: We have plenty of Queen videos to watch, and we still have a great comunity here on Queenzone. Let´s respect that he doesn´t want to share it or to trade it and move on. It´s not that serious!You're right... but if he doesn't want to share all of it, then he might as well not share it at all. It's like a child taunting his friends with a toy or a piece of cake. It's immature, and it's pathetic. If they were high quality shares, that would be one thing... but these YouTube clips are awful.FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote: The point is not trying to convince anybody but to share information about the concerts in México.If that's the case, then share the whole video, so you can share all the information - not just a small portion of it. Then people will thank you. Right now, they're not too impressed with the way you're making it public that you're hoarding a video, and watermarking it, as if you legitimately own it. Why are you choosing to do it like this? I'm sure many people share my thoughts, but they aren't voicing them, out of fear that the "sharing" (if that's what you want to call it) will stop. But as usual, I'm happy to speak on behalf of whoever feels at least similarly to how I feel. Sí lo que tú digas.. me recuerdan a un niño pequeño haciendo berrinche porque no le quieren comprar su paleta. I have talked to you about this subject some time before, and as far as I see, it is useless saying anything else. You just draw some conclusions which are far from objective. Ya he hablado contigo al respecto, no tiene caso. Sacas conclusiones nada objetivas. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 09.10.2007 21:24 |
Penetration_Guru Posted: 10/9/2007 5:41:17 PM ________________________________________ Regards, Call that proof???? It's proof that Roger had a Hitler fetish as much as anything.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Every person understands what they please. Cada quien entiende lo que quiere. Regards, Saludos. |
| DavidRFuller 09.10.2007 22:45 |
FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote:And you are another example of a selfish prick who likes to tease. I'm not into live stuff but there are a lot of people on here that are.Wiley wrote:You are just another example of the youth these days who think that it only takes a “click” to download anything they want either to the PC, mobile phone, or Ipod. Tú eres otro ejemplo de la juventud actual, que piensa que solo hay que oprimir un botón para bajar todo a su compu, celular o Ipod.Oszmercury wrote: Why 2 minutes?, well i'm not complain, but some people has leaked some great stuff, why Queen mexico can't? well that's my opinion and i'm from mexico by the way peaceYes, I have never understood this. No wonder we have a bad reputation in the Queen trading community. I am from Villahermosa, Tabasco, Mexico but I live in Monterrey, by the way. My dad was in that concert back in '81. I was less than two months old :). Hello to all! |
| Oszmercury 10.10.2007 02:11 |
well you're too sensitive, it's my opinion, i think that, let's see other rock bands forums, there's another kind of situation about leaked stuff, if you don't want to share it, that's okay, i'm fine, it's just an opinion, not a fact, but well. thnks for that 2 minutes and chill out |
| Richy Mercury 10.10.2007 09:10 |
Francisco's daddy must have beat him. |
| Bobby_brown 10.10.2007 10:52 |
FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote:I respect that, and i understand. But this was 26 years ago, i hope now things have changed and your life has improved.Oszmercury wrote: Why 2 minutes?, well i'm not complain, but some people has leaked some great stuff, why Queen mexico can't? well that's my opinion and i'm from mexico by the way peaceTú eres un ejemplo de la juventud actual, que piensa que solo hay que oprimir un botón para bajar todo a su compu, celular o ipod. Aunque yo suene a vetarro, no idea tienes del trabajo que costo juntar el dinero y arriesgarse a ir al concierto, porque no es como ahora que es como ir al cine. Literalmente antes te jugabas el pellejo, o te golpeaban, asaltaban o se cancelaba el concierto sin reembolso de ningún tipo. la gente se quedaba acampando pasando hambre y frío, ni había transporte suficiente par ir allá y menos para regresar. Ni pensar en arriesgar a llevar una grabadora escondida ya que eran gigantes, y menos una cámara de cine (no existían las videocámaras ni los celulares) y cada rollo de película para la cámara de cine de 8, super8, 16 mm o 35 mm costaba $450.00 pesos el mas económico (sin sonido), porque había con o sin sonido , (el boleto costo $370.00) y filmar todo el concierto requería al menos de 30 rollos de película,¡¡ $13.500 pesos de aquella época!!!! o el equivalente a la entrada de 36 personas… mas el costo de revelado de cada rollo. ¿Para que te arriesgaras a que te confiscaran todo en la entrada o te rompieran la camara?, eran puros granaderos los encargados de la “seguridad”. Eran otros tiempos no había educación respecto a los conciertos, no había ticket master, ni compra por teléfono, ni tarjeta de crédito, ni boletos numerados, ni secciones, en el área de piso estábamos sobre piedras y tierra porque fue el único sitio donde la autoridades permitieron el concierto. ¿Y me preguntas que porque dos minutos?? ¡¡Vaya!! Let me just say that everytime someone goes with a camera inside a venue, gets the risk to being caught with all consequences we all know about. Last year it was shared 3 songs of Queen+Paul Rodgers in Hi-Def. That camera was extremelly expensive but he took the risk and shared the 3 songs we wanted. Many people have leaked stuff from the inside, even puting their own jobs at risk, and today we have "Hyde Park", "Earls Court", and the list goes on and on. So, everybody took chances in recording or leaking Queen concerts, and even though i understand your point of view, let me ask you something: - Why did took all that risk at all? If you don´t want to share it, sell it, or trade it, i don´t understand why you recorded in the first place. Only for yourself? Do you get all that pleasure, just being the one in the World to be able to watch that concert? Because, it´s normal that people request this show. It´s our favourite band and we love to see new footage as much as you do, but even though i can understand that in those days it wasn´t easy to live in Mexico, why do you still old on that thought 26 years after the event is what is beyond me. One year has passed since our last discussion, and it´s sad to see that after another great year of sharing in Queenzone, and trading (at least for me), you still hasn´t changed your mind about that. Because i have no doubt that some of the sharings here in Queenzone have made your day too! But i do hope that one day you´ll change your mind. Best wishes |
| The Real Wizard 11.10.2007 01:00 |
FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote: I don´t have any time to spoil the quality of any stuff , I do have time to include the Queen Fan Club Mexico watermark , but that’s all.How convenient. You have the time to watermark it, but not enough time to rip more footage from your DVD. By the way, did you just say that YouTube quality is the same as DVD quality? That is spoiling the quality, last time I checked. Whatever…it reminds me of a little child throwing a tantrum just because he doesn´t get the lollipop he longs for.How original of you, using another analogy referring to children. But, if we must speak in those terms... I'm the one who has been sharing with the other kids here, not you. For years, I have been searching for low generation tapes of Queen shows. For example, after locating a first gen tape of Puebla 10-17-81, I filled in the gaps with an alternate source and shared it here. Not that I'm looking for any credit whatsoever... I simply want to expose you as the selfish and attention-seeking person you are. Many people are hoarding things, but at least they're quiet about it. What you are doing is not sharing. In fact, all you have ever done at this forum is show off your (potentially clinical) obsession with with Queen's three concerts in Mexico. What are you trying to accomplish, really? If you want to take things like that, that’s your choice, I can´t do anything about it.You make it sound like I'm doing something wrong. By your logic, it's okay for you to tease us with watermarked marginal quality excerpts of your video, but it's not okay for others to be critical of that? That's a nice double-standard you've got there. You just draw some conclusions which are far from objective.Oh, really? Then why don't you fill me in on the details I'm missing? That´s one of the reasons for I will withdraw the video in a few days time, to stop bothering other Queenzoners with these kind of complaints.Fine by me. I can live without seeing your video. But clearly YOU can't live without your pathetic need for attention. We get the picture. You have a rare video. Hooray! Well done. You're the greatest Queen fan and collector ever! Happy? Good. Let's move on now, please. |
| Richy Mercury 11.10.2007 02:23 |
Francisco, What exactly is your point when you shared us your clip? Are you trying to show that you are generous? It might be that you don't even have the whole video. By the way everybody, there is a nice recording of the Manchester 1975 show. I already finished downloading it. It shouldn't take longer than 3 hours. link Queen: Sweet Rhapsody Artist: Queen Title: Sweet Rhapsody Label: Gypsy Eye GE 047 / 048 Source: Audience Date: November 26th 1975 (Evening Show) Venue: Free Trade Hall, Manchester, UK Size: 515 MB Source: CDR --> EAC --> FLAC Level 8 Disc 1: 1. Bohemian Rhapsody Intro 2. Ogre Battle 3. Sweet Lady 4. White Queen (As It Began) 5. Flick Of The Wrist 6. Bohemian Rhapsody 7. Killer Queen 8. The March Of The Black Queen 9. Bohemian Rhapsody (Reprise) 10. Bring Back That Leroy Brown 11. Brighton Rock 12. Son & Daughter Disc 2: 1. The Prophet's Song 2. Stone Cold Crazy 3. Doing Allright 4. Keep Yourself Alive 5. Seven Seas Of Rhye 6. Liar 7. Now I'm Here 8. Jailhouse Rock 9. God Save The Queen Artwork included There's a little debate about this concert being the afternoon or the evening show! Freddie says right after Ogre Battle something like "Good Evening, we'll have a great show tonight" So the majority thinks this is the evening show! Very enjoyable sound and the guys in top form! There's a new version tho, which has better sound quality, but it hasn't surfaced yet! So this is what we've got for now! Waiting for the new version! Thanks to the original uploader whitemanadmin! Downloaded from queenzone in 2004! Comments: One of the very few recordings from the UK leg of ANATO tour - that itself is a reason for getting hold of it. Quality is very good. (link Nice performance from this concert in Manchester 1975. This is the complete concert and the song In The lap Of The Gods wasn't played at all but i'm not tottaly sure about that. It comes from a 1st generation recording and the soundquality is almost Excellent so that is pretty amazing for such an old recording. Very clear and stable sound. (link |
| Penetration_Guru 11.10.2007 03:15 |
Ah yes, the "I'm taking my ball away" response. Stunningly original....and based on all the 30 people who have done almost exactly this previously, shows you up as either a prankster or a show off. As a DIRECT result of YOUR responses, I now do not believe that there is a full recording. |
| Oszmercury 11.10.2007 11:34 |
Richy Mercury wrote: Francisco, What exactly is your point when you shared us your clip? Are you trying to show that you are generous? It might be that you don't even have the whole video. By the way everybody, there is a nice recording of the Manchester 1975 show. I already finished downloading it. It shouldn't take longer than 3 hours. link Queen: Sweet Rhapsody Artist: Queen Title: Sweet Rhapsody Label: Gypsy Eye GE 047 / 048 Source: Audience Date: November 26th 1975 (Evening Show) Venue: Free Trade Hall, Manchester, UK Size: 515 MB Source: CDR --> EAC --> FLAC Level 8 Disc 1: 1. Bohemian Rhapsody Intro 2. Ogre Battle 3. Sweet Lady 4. White Queen (As It Began) 5. Flick Of The Wrist 6. Bohemian Rhapsody 7. Killer Queen 8. The March Of The Black Queen 9. Bohemian Rhapsody (Reprise) 10. Bring Back That Leroy Brown 11. Brighton Rock 12. Son & Daughter Disc 2: 1. The Prophet's Song 2. Stone Cold Crazy 3. Doing Allright 4. Keep Yourself Alive 5. Seven Seas Of Rhye 6. Liar 7. Now I'm Here 8. Jailhouse Rock 9. God Save The Queen Artwork included There's a little debate about this concert being the afternoon or the evening show! Freddie says right after Ogre Battle something like "Good Evening, we'll have a great show tonight" So the majority thinks this is the evening show! Very enjoyable sound and the guys in top form! There's a new version tho, which has better sound quality, but it hasn't surfaced yet! So this is what we've got for now! Waiting for the new version! Thanks to the original uploader whitemanadmin! Downloaded from queenzone in 2004! Comments: One of the very few recordings from the UK leg of ANATO tour - that itself is a reason for getting hold of it. Quality is very good. (link Nice performance from this concert in Manchester 1975. This is the complete concert and the song In The lap Of The Gods wasn't played at all but i'm not tottaly sure about that. It comes from a 1st generation recording and the soundquality is almost Excellent so that is pretty amazing for such an old recording. Very clear and stable sound. (linkI did the same, it has very good sound, i love this queen era, some say that there's other source with better sound, i hope we hear it some day, that's great news. check it! |
| The Real Wizard 11.10.2007 14:45 |
Oszmercury wrote: some say that there's other source with better sound, i hope we hear it some day, that's great news. check it!This is definitely the best one we've got, and I doubt we'll get an upgrade. It's apparently a first gen. |
| Bobby_brown 11.10.2007 16:39 |
link Queen: Sweet Rhapsody Artist: Queen Title: Sweet Rhapsody Label: Gypsy Eye GE 047 / 048 Source: Audience Date: November 26th 1975 (Evening Show) Venue: Free Trade Hall, Manchester, UK Size: 515 MBIs it possible to share it here, since i can´t join that site?- Or, if you post the Harsh information, maybe i can download it with Azureos. Can someone do this? Thanks |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 11.10.2007 19:20 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 11.10.2007 19:54 |
FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote:Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote: I don´t have any time to spoil the quality of any stuff , I do have time to include the Queen Fan Club Mexico watermark , but that’s all.How convenient. You have the time to watermark it, but not enough time to rip more footage from your DVD. By the way, did you just say that YouTube quality is the same as DVD quality? That is spoiling the quality, last time I checked.Whatever…it reminds me of a little child throwing a tantrum just because he doesn´t get the lollipop he longs for.How original of you, using another analogy referring to children. But, if we must speak in those terms... I'm the one who has been sharing with the other kids here, not you. For years, I have been searching for low generation tapes of Queen shows. For example, after locating a first gen tape of Puebla 10-17-81, I filled in the gaps with an alternate source and shared it here. Not that I'm looking for any credit whatsoever... I simply want to expose you as the selfish and attention-seeking person you are. Many people are hoarding things, but at least they're quiet about it. What you are doing is not sharing. In fact, all you have ever done at this forum is show off your (potentially clinical) obsession with with Queen's three concerts in Mexico. What are you trying to accomplish, really? REPLIES IN CAPITAL LETTERS: YOU DECIDED TO DO SO AND YOUR TASK IT´S QUITE PRAISEWORTHY , I GUESS TO DO SO AND YOUR TASK IT´S QUITE PRAISEWORTH , I GUESS MANY PEOPLE THANK YOU FOR THAT, I AM NOT TRYING TO GET ANYBODYS APPROVAL. I JUST SHARE WHAT I CAN DUE LACK OF TIME. TIME AGO I MENTIONED THAT THE EQUIPMENT I USED TO DO THE TRANSFERS WAS OUT OF DATE NOW THAT I HAVE AN UP-DATE EQUIPMENT IN ORDER TO TRANSFER BOTH AUDIO AND VIDEO STUFF I LACK OF TIME TO LEARN HOW TO USE IT! THAT´S WHY I HAVE FUN WITH YOUR CONCLUSIONS STARTING THAT I SPOIL THE QUALITY OF THE STUFF I UPLOAD ... I HAVEN´T GOT THE FAINTEST IDEA HOW TO DO THAT, NOR THE INTENTION!! SURE I DO HAVE THE EQUIPMENT BUT AS I HAVE MENTIONED BEFORE I DO NOT HAVE THE TIME TO LEARN TO USE IT WITH SUCH "AIM", NOT TO FAKE ANYTHING AT ALL!! I CAN´T UNDERSTAND YOUR DESIRE TO THINK AND SAY THAT I LIKE WASTING MY TIME DOING SUCH THINGS. YOU LOVE SHARING BOTH AUDIO AND VIDEO STUFF, GOOD! THE VIDEO BITS I HAVE UPLOADED ARE JUST TO REMEMBER THE ANNIVERSARY OF THE SHOWS QUEEN HELD IN MEXICO AND THAT´A ALL. I HAVE BEEN A QUEEN COLLECTOR FOR A LONG TIME, HOWEVER I AM NOT OBSESSED IN GETTING EVERY SINGLE ITEM, I JUST TRY TO GET WHAT I AM INTERESTED IN. I AM ALSO INTERESTED IN OTHER THINGS BESIDES QUEEN AND SUCH THINGS HAVE KEOT ME BUSY NOW SO FAR. DO I HAVE A CLINICAL OBSESSION JUST BECAUSE YOU SAY SO? WELL, THAT´S YOUR OPINION, THERE IS NO PROBLEM.If you want to take things like that, that’s your choice, I can´t do anything about it.You make it sound like I'm doing something wrong. By your logic, it's okay for you to tease us with watermarked marginal quality excerpts of your video, but it's not okay for others to be critical of that? That's a nice double-standard you've got there. AS I SAID BEFORE I CAN LIVE WITH THAT, DON´T WORRY. I AM QUITE USED TO THESE KIND OF CRITICISMS EVEN HERE IN MEXICO AND THEY DON´T STOP ME FROM WORKING, THAT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE.You just draw some conclusions which are far from objective.Oh, really? Then why don't you fill me in on the details I'm missing?That´s one of the reasons for I will withdraw the video in a few days time, to stop bothering other Queenzoners with these kind of complaints.IT HAPPENED TIME AGO AND NOW I AM REALLY TOO BUSY TO CHECK THE CONTEXT OR SPECIFIC SITUATION. OH |
| The Real Wizard 12.10.2007 02:23 |
Here are some ideas of how to clear up the entire thing: 1) Copy the DVD for a few people (or even just one person) and send it to them through the post. If you don't have the time to share the whole thing, then someone else can. 2) Instead of ripping from the DVD (which can be time-consuming), try copying the files straight from the DVD to your hard drive, and create a torrent at the announce forum here. All you have to do is leave the computer on for a day or two, and you will be able to share the whole thing effortlessly. How does that sound? |
| pittrek 12.10.2007 02:48 |
Francisco, may I ask why did you post the clip when you don't want to share the whole video ? Or does it mean you are keeping it for trades ? |
| Bobby_brown 12.10.2007 15:47 |
pittrek wrote: Francisco, may I ask why did you post the clip when you don't want to share the whole video ? Or does it mean you are keeping it for trades ?As far as we know, he doesn´t trade it or sell it(maybe i´m wrong). And this is what i don´t understand. Take care |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 12.10.2007 16:02 |
pittrek wrote: Francisco, may I ask why did you post the clip when you don't want to share the whole video ? Or does it mean you are keeping it for trades ?Or are you a sexually frustrated guy who likes provoking people with this childish "look what I have and you don't " attitude ?Pardon me? ...And talking like this do you expect either your petitions or comments to be regarded as serious? You should think better what you are going to post. |
| Bobby_brown 12.10.2007 16:24 |
Francisco, do you trade the video or sell it? Take care |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 12.10.2007 17:34 |
Bobby_brown wrote: Francisco, do you trade the video or sell it? Take careYes, I trade it for more Queen in Mexico footage. Cheers!! |
| Marknow 12.10.2007 19:27 |
FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote:After 26 years what footage of Queen in Mexico do you not have? I mean you have x which your willing to trade for y. But can you tell us what y is?Bobby_brown wrote: Francisco, do you trade the video or sell it? Take careYes, I trade it for more Queen in Mexico footage. Cheers!! |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 12.10.2007 21:02 |
Marknow wrote:Any Queen video in Mexico 1981, I remember I saw dozens of guys with movie cameras in the stadium, so there are many sources out there. I remember there were lots foreigners, many of them were from the USA, some others from Canada, and some other from Europe and South America.FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote:After 26 years what footage of Queen in Mexico do you not have? I mean you have x which your willing to trade for y. But can you tell us what y is?Bobby_brown wrote: Francisco, do you trade the video or sell it? Take careYes, I trade it for more Queen in Mexico footage. Cheers!! They had amazing filming equipment, and right, after 26 years I´m still looking for this kind of footage. Regards |
| pittrek 13.10.2007 06:55 |
FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote:I didn't my previous post without a reason, the last sentance is not there any more. What I was trying to tell is why you uploaded that 2 minutes sectionpittrek wrote: Francisco, may I ask why did you post the clip when you don't want to share the whole video ? Or does it mean you are keeping it for trades ?Or are you a sexually frustrated guy who likes provoking people with this childish "look what I have and you don't " attitude ?Pardon me? ...And talking like this do you expect either your petitions or comments to be regarded as serious? You should think better what you are going to post. |
| HugoWanKenobi 18.10.2007 20:33 |
Damn... This is embarrasing... This guy Francisco from Mexico is strange... Hey Francisco!!! stop it!!! Amigo, estás enlodando a nuestra gente con tu actitud. Demasiado nos malmiran a los mexicanos en el extranjero. Se feliz con tu video y deja de joder. Bye. Adios. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 18.10.2007 21:18 |
HugoWanKenobi wrote: Damn... This is embarrasing... This guy Francisco from Mexico is strange... Hey Francisco!!! stop it!!! Amigo, estás enlodando a nuestra gente con tu actitud. Demasiado nos malmiran a los mexicanos en el extranjero. Se feliz con tu video y deja de joder. Bye. Adios.Soy extraño? Am I strange? Porque pido a cambio del video de Queen en Mexico mas de lo mismo? Just because in order to trade the Queen in México video I´m asking some more of the same stuff? Entonces segun tu que tengo que hacer para conseguir mas material de Queen en Puebla o Monterrey? So, according to you what should I do in order to get some more either Queen in Puebla or Monterrey video? -Subir ahora mismo todo lo que tengo y quedarme sin nada para intercambiar en caso que alguien tenga mas material? Should I upload what I have now and then eventually I will not have anything to offer in case somebody happens to be willing to trade something I might be interested in? -A ver dime que sugieres? -So tell me, What should I do? What do you suggest? Enlodando a nuestra gente? Tarnishing our people? A que te refieres concretamente, que, yo represento a Mexico? Specifically what are you referring to? Do I represent México? Si a esas vamos tu tambien lo representas en este foro, con una pequeña diferencia tu perfil no tiene ninguna referencia , asi es muy facil hablar anonimamente, esto en todo caso es una muestra tipica de como el peor enemigo de un Mexicano es otro Mexicano. If so, you are also representing México at this messageboard , but with a slight difference, your profile hasn´t got any reference to you (no name, no e-mail address…nothing about you). So talking is quite easy when remaining anonymous.In any case this is the typical example of a Mexican being the worst enemy of another Mexican. Como sabes que nos mal miran en el extranjero, a donde has ido que te han tratado tan mal? How do you know foreigners have a low opinion of Mexican people? Where have you been to and where have you been treated so badly? Si lo dices por lo que pasa en EU, alla no es todo el mundo. Mexico es muy bien visto en otras partes del mundo. If you say so just based on what’s happening in the U.S.A. , well , that country is not all the world. People from other parts of the world have a high opinion of Mexico. Que es para ti dejar de "joder"? In your opinión what is stop “bothering”? Dejar de solicitar a cambio material de Queen equivalente al que tengo? Should I stop requesting Queen stuff similar to the one I have when trading? Que, no te parece justo? So, doesn´t it sound fair to you? Estoy abusando de alguien acaso? Am I taking unfair advantage of anybody? En el coleccionismo cuando se intercambia algo se trata de que ambas partes intercambien material equivalente y los poseedores del mismo ponen las condiciones, a ti en que te afecta? When you are treading something with collectors the point is that both parts exchange stuff which is equivalent , and the owners set the conditions for the deal, Does this affect you in any way? How? Fijate que ahi no te podre dar gusto. Prefiero darme gusto a mi e intentar a pesar tuyo conseguir mas material de Queen. I’m afraid I will not be able to please you. I prefer pleasing myself and keep on trying to get some more Queen stuff, in spite of you. Tal vez lo ves mal porque estas acostumbrado a descargar material, pero alguna vez has aportado algo aparte de tus "amables comentarios" anonimos? Maybe you don´t like it since you might be used to downloading stuff from the net, but have you ever contributed something other than your anonymous “kind comments”? No es facil hoy en dia conseguir material nuevo o inedito de Queen, lo que si es facil es encontrar gente que descarga todo lo que le es posible de la red sin aport |
| deleted user 19.10.2007 02:07 |
FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote:Acaso eres bruto? Intercambia tu video por otros fotanejes que no tengas, varios quisieran tener un video de primera generacion de este concierto, estoy seguro que ellos tienen fotanjes escondidos...es muy facil...HugoWanKenobi wrote: Damn... This is embarrasing... This guy Francisco from Mexico is strange... Hey Francisco!!! stop it!!! Amigo, estás enlodando a nuestra gente con tu actitud. Demasiado nos malmiran a los mexicanos en el extranjero. Se feliz con tu video y deja de joder. Bye. Adios.Soy extraño? Porque pido a cambio del video de Queen en Mexico mas de lo mismo? Entonces segun tu que tengo que hacer para conseguir mas material de Queen en Puebla o Monterrey? -Subir ahora mismo todo lo que tengo y quedarme sin nada para intercambiar en caso que alguien tenga mas material? -A ver dime que sugieres? Enlodando a nuestra gente? A que te refieres concretamente, que, yo represento a Mexico?. Si a esas vamos tu tambien lo representas en este foro, con una pequeña diferencia tu perfil no tiene ninguna referencia , asi es muy facil hablar anonimamente, esto en todo caso es una muestra tipica de como el peor enemigo de un Mexicano es otro Mexicano. Como sabes que nos mal miran en el extranjero, a donde has ido que te han tratado tan mal? Si lo dices por lo que pasa en EU, alla no es todo el mundo. Mexico es muy bien visto en otras partes del mundo. Que es para ti dejar de "joder"? Dejar de solicitar a cambio material de Queen equivalente al que tengo? Que, no te parece justo? Estoy abusando de alguien acaso? En el coleccionismo cuando se intercambia algo se trata de que ambas partes intercambien material equivalente y los poseedores del mismo ponen las condiciones, a ti en que te afecta? Fijate que ahi no te podre dar gusto. Prefiero darme gusto a mi e intentar a pesar tuyo conseguir mas material de Queen. Tal vez lo ves mal porque estas acostumbrado a descargar material, pero alguna vez has aportado algo aparte de tus "amables comentarios" anonimos? No es facil hoy en dia conseguir material nuevo o inedito de Queen, lo que si es facil es encontrar gente que descarga todo lo que le es posible de la red sin aportar nada, que comodo es solo sacar del mundo lo que a uno le place sin aportar nada. De todo hay en la viña del señor, no te parece? |
| Jeroen 19.10.2007 04:45 |
This is an English speaking board. Please respect the Queenzone rules. A few sentances in another language every now and then are never a problem. But in a discussion about a serious topic in which lots of people want to participate, it's pretty blunt. |
| The Real Wizard 19.10.2007 08:43 |
Here's the translation:
FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote: I suck. I suck so much that I am the only person on the forum sharing samples of a recording I'm hoarding. Therefore, I am the best collector ever, since everyone knows I have the video. Screw you all. I'm going to go jerk off to my video now. |
| Double-U 19.10.2007 09:01 |
And that is the story so far. End of session! W. |
| Jeroen 19.10.2007 09:19 |
Thank you, Francesco! See you again next year! |
| Wiley 19.10.2007 10:52 |
Francisco, I am Mexican as well. Born in Villahermosa, Tabasco but I live in Monterrey. My MSN Messenger email is in my profile and I can be easily contacted there, so I'm not anonymous or try to wind up anybody. I will write in English out of respect for other forum users. I think what the other guy mentioned about Mexicans having a bad reputation, he meant in the Queen trading community and in my few experiences I have found that to be true. I have traveled a lot and, as tourists, we are always received with arms wide open (that's the way we are with strangers in Mexico as well) and we are known as being cheerful and fun people, particularly in Europe. As traders it is very different, since we are known as always wanting to get a lot for very little or no effort and sometimes misleading the other person. Just look at our flea markets (tianguis). It is valid that you want to trade your video for something in particular, something you think is equally rare. It is your right to do so, but you have to understand that in this forum (and many others), your attitude is perceived as "hoarding" and you "showing off". You shouldn't expect gratitude here. Even I was angry when I saw that 6 second clip from Puebla. Man, what was that about??!!! I enjoy your stories regarding the Queen shows in Mexico very much (my dad was in the MTY show, by the way) but even I can't get to appreciate these 2 minute clips. Maybe if you shared a few tracks in good quality; parts in which Freddie greeted the audience in spanish, the mexican audience going wild, the infamous shoe incidents in Puebla (although I don't think I want to see that) or something that we see and we are 100% sure that it is indeed Mexico. We don't get to appreciate the greatness of Queen or the magic in those great shows in your clips!! Maybe you could trade these videos with other equally rare materials from other shows. In the end, you will do whatever you want and that's Ok, but please understand that in this forum people don't appreciate 6 second long videos and these are usually perceived to be wind ups and teases. Sorry for the long post. Regards, Juan Carlos Wiley |
| pittrek 19.10.2007 11:00 |
Thank you very much, Viley for saing the thing we all feel using nice words. And please, to all spanish speaking people, PLEASE use english on an english speaking forum. |
| Jeroen 19.10.2007 11:04 |
Good post, Wiley! Cheers |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 19.10.2007 15:57 |
<h6><b><font color="Black">SebasMercury wrote:No soy bruto como TU comprenderas.FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote:Acaso eres bruto? Intercambia tu video por otros fotanejes que no tengas, varios quisieran tener un video de primera generacion de este concierto, estoy seguro que ellos tienen fotanjes escondidos...es muy facil...HugoWanKenobi wrote: Damn... This is embarrasing... This guy Francisco from Mexico is strange... Hey Francisco!!! stop it!!! Amigo, estás enlodando a nuestra gente con tu actitud. Demasiado nos malmiran a los mexicanos en el extranjero. Se feliz con tu video y deja de joder. Bye. Adios.Soy extraño? Porque pido a cambio del video de Queen en Mexico mas de lo mismo? Entonces segun tu que tengo que hacer para conseguir mas material de Queen en Puebla o Monterrey? -Subir ahora mismo todo lo que tengo y quedarme sin nada para intercambiar en caso que alguien tenga mas material? -A ver dime que sugieres? Enlodando a nuestra gente? A que te refieres concretamente, que, yo represento a Mexico?. Si a esas vamos tu tambien lo representas en este foro, con una pequeña diferencia tu perfil no tiene ninguna referencia , asi es muy facil hablar anonimamente, esto en todo caso es una muestra tipica de como el peor enemigo de un Mexicano es otro Mexicano. Como sabes que nos mal miran en el extranjero, a donde has ido que te han tratado tan mal? Si lo dices por lo que pasa en EU, alla no es todo el mundo. Mexico es muy bien visto en otras partes del mundo. Que es para ti dejar de "joder"? Dejar de solicitar a cambio material de Queen equivalente al que tengo? Que, no te parece justo? Estoy abusando de alguien acaso? En el coleccionismo cuando se intercambia algo se trata de que ambas partes intercambien material equivalente y los poseedores del mismo ponen las condiciones, a ti en que te afecta? Fijate que ahi no te podre dar gusto. Prefiero darme gusto a mi e intentar a pesar tuyo conseguir mas material de Queen. Tal vez lo ves mal porque estas acostumbrado a descargar material, pero alguna vez has aportado algo aparte de tus "amables comentarios" anonimos? No es facil hoy en dia conseguir material nuevo o inedito de Queen, lo que si es facil es encontrar gente que descarga todo lo que le es posible de la red sin aportar nada, que comodo es solo sacar del mundo lo que a uno le place sin aportar nada. De todo hay en la viña del señor, no te parece? Gracias por tu sugerencia. |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 19.10.2007 16:02 |
FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote:<h6><b><font color="Black">SebasMercury wrote:FRANCISCO J ARELLANO wrote:No soy bruto como TU, comprenderas. Gracias por tu sugerencia.HugoWanKenobi wrote: Damn... This is embarrasing... This guy Francisco from Mexico is strange... SEBAS MERCURY wrote:"Acaso eres bruto? Intercambia tu video por otros fotanejes que no tengas, varios quisieran tener un video de primera generacion de este concierto, estoy seguro que ellos tienen fotanjes escondidos...es muy facil..." |
| FRANCISCO J ARELLANO 19.10.2007 16:04 |
SEBAS MERCURY wrote:
"Acaso eres bruto? Intercambia tu video por otros fotanejes que no tengas, varios quisieran tener un video de primera generacion de este concierto, estoy seguro que ellos tienen fotanjes escondidos...es muy facil..."
---------------------------- Well, this is my reply: No soy bruto como TU, comprenderas. I am not a "brute" ,as I suppose YOU may understand. Gracias por tu sugerencia. Thank you very much for your suggestion anyway. |
| Jjeroen 19.10.2007 16:52 |
Jeroen wrote: This is an English speaking board. Please respect the Queenzone rules. A few sentances in another language every now and then are never a problem. But in a discussion about a serious topic in which lots of people want to participate, it's pretty blunt. |
| Jjeroen 19.10.2007 16:53 |
Jjeroen wrote:Jeroen wrote: This is an English speaking board. Please respect the Queenzone rules. A few sentances in another language every now and then are never a problem. But in a discussion about a serious topic in which lots of people want to participate, it's pretty blunt. |