| magicalfreddiemercury 28.06.2007 12:27 |
I don't know about most of you, but I'm relieved. link I have nothing at all against immigration. I love the diversity of my area of NYC. The different cultures bring color, language, food and ideas that we would otherwise not have. My great grandparents came to this country from Italy - and they were turned back at Ellis Island the first time around. They went home, tried again, and finally made it through the tough trials of American immigration laws. I have the utmost respect for them. They didn't give up, give in or break any laws to get and stay here. My problem is with illegal aliens who, btw, have recently been called, "undocumented Americans" by certain US senators. Gotta love political correctness, yes? The senators for this bill argued that people are living in fear and hiding in this country and that we should change that. They're right, but they're talking about the wrong people living in fear. They're not talking about law abiding American citizens, they're talking about the people who broke the law to not only come into this country illegally but to stay and abuse our admittedly sucky system. I don't have any answers. I just know this particular bill was not it. I'm relieved it was voted down. |
| KillerQueen840 28.06.2007 12:42 |
I know the whole argument about how illegal aliens help our country by doing jobs no one else will do, but I'm relieved, too. My great grandparents were all immigrants as well and had to do everything the hard way. Also, my family is close friends with a man from Brazil who went through a lot of crap to become a legal citizen. He had to know more US history by heart than what is taught in our own school systems. He truly earned his citizenship. |
| Maz 28.06.2007 12:46 |
When did your great-grandparents come here from Italy? I ask because assuming it was pre-1921, which it sounds like it was, there was much less restriction than there is today. To assume that "my grandparents came here legally" (a common argument and not one I'm singling anyone out for) shows a misunderstanding of immigration in the 19th and early-20th centuries. Comparatively speaking, "legal immigration" is a relatively new thing. |
| Micrówave 28.06.2007 12:52 |
Oh yes, it's so good that all the illegals that were going to be "legalized" continue not having to pay any income tax, while citizen's tax rates increase every year to compensate. Gee, is there a way I can donate MORE of my paycheck to Uncle Sam? How 'bout we put a 10 cent tax on gas? or charge an extra buck for a pack of joes? We owe these illegals a lot more than they get paid under the table, and the welfare and food stamps just don't cover that. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 28.06.2007 12:57 |
<font color=lime>KillerQueen840 wrote: I know the whole argument about how illegal aliens help our country by doing jobs no one else will do, but I'm relieved, too.See, this I don't get. I don't think it's that illegals will do work Americans won't do but rather that they'll do it for much less pay than Americans. Once these illegals were granted citizenship through this bill (though I know it would take years), they'd no longer work for that low pay, so this arugment wouldn't work. <font color=lime>KillerQueen840 wrote: He truly earned his citizenship.I think this says it perfectly. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 28.06.2007 13:23 |
Maz wrote: When did your great-grandparents come here from Italy? I ask because assuming it was pre-1921, which it sounds like it was, there was much less restriction than there is today. To assume that "my grandparents came here legally" (a common argument and not one I'm singling anyone out for) shows a misunderstanding of immigration in the 19th and early-20th centuries. Comparatively speaking, "legal immigration" is a relatively new thing.Interesting. But what I mean by them coming here legally is that they weren't stowaways. They didn't jump any fences or steal away into the night at our borders. The came here through the proper route, with the proper paperwork, learned the language and worked hard to support their family and contribute to their new community. Regardless of the differences in immigration from then to now, their trek to the United States of America was accomplished with pride and honor, not arrogance and deceit. |
| AspiringPhilosophe 28.06.2007 13:27 |
This doesn't surprise me at all...even Republicans are abandoning Bush in record numbers because of his unpopularity. Like rats leaving a sinking ship really. I am also aggravated by the illegals being called "undocumented". If anyone knows anyone who has tried to actually become a legal citizen, is here legally, and has to go through all the hoops, it's a ridiculous mess. I mean, I've heard of people here legally who are still waiting for citizenship because they are trying to negotiate the bureaucracy, and it's been 20 years or more since they've applied!!! This is absolutely ridiculous. Down by where my parents live, there are a lot of illegals who work on the Christmas Tree Farm and the Fruit Orchards and stuff. I've long said if they wanted to stop illegal immigration, they need to go after the employers who will employ them...if the jobs for them dry up, we'd see a dramatic drop in the numbers coming across the boarder. But of course the businesses won't do that because then they can pay shit wages and offer no protection and no benefits (I can't tell you how many my mom saw in the ER after accidents on the job due to substandard equipment or working conditions). Giving them citizenship via a "guest worker" program is not going to solve the problem either...it's just easier in the short term than forcing the places that hire them to clean up their acts. This is going to sound very harsh...but the illegals have no rights in this country. They have rights as humans, that is true...but they are not entitled to anything here because they are not citizens, and are not even trying to become citizens. This doesn't mean you have to treat them as sub-humans, because they are not...but they don't have a right to benefits that US citizens enjoy (social security, welfare, etc.) if they don't contribute anything to it as citizens. |
| Micrówave 28.06.2007 13:51 |
HistoryGirl wrote: but they don't have a right to benefits that US citizens enjoy (social security, welfare, etc.) if they don't contribute anything to it as citizens.You mean you didn't know that if you had a work Visa and lose your job you can apply for welfare without being a citizen? Oh yes, it's true. Plus you get more for having more kids!!! Plus you have NO credit history and can recieve a "first time buyer" mortgage loan... WITHOUT BEING A CITIZEN AND PAYING TAXES. God Bless America. |
| Micrówave 28.06.2007 14:15 |
And CMU, I'm not picking on you, but I hear this argument all the time:
HistoryGirl wrote: If anyone knows anyone who has tried to actually become a legal citizen, is here legally, and has to go through all the hoops, it's a ridiculous mess.I know only one person, my friend Sergio who moved here from Peru and became a citizen in 6 years. No problem. Here are the 4 steps required: Step 1: Fill Out N-400 Get the Application for Naturalization (N-400) and fill it out completely. Do not leave out any information, since an incomplete application will delay the process of naturalization. Step 2: Get 2 color photographs. The photos must be U.S. passport sized (2" x2" or 5 x 5 cm), color or black and white on a light/white background and no head coverings unless for religious reasons. Step 3: Photocopy Documents Photocopy of your green card and other documents required Step 4. Send Your Application Package Send your application, fees and documents to the appropriate service center. The fee ($390) for application and fingerprinting has to be in the form of check or money order, no other form of payment is accepted. THAT'S IT!!! What is so difficult about that? Well, no. 1, the language barrier. You talk about migrant workers near you. Do they all read and write English? That's a requirement... not a hassle. Language: You must be able to speak, read, write, and understand basic English; unless you are at least fifty (50) years of age and have been a lawful permanent resident for at least twenty (20) years; or you are at least fifty-five (55) years of age and have been a lawful permanent resident for at least fifteen (15) years; or you have a permanent physical or developmental disability or mental impairment making it impossible for you to meet the English language requirement. It's not Bush, Immigration requirements, or other government "red tape" that holds up most of your illegal aliens. It's laziness. Example: Juan Gonzalez, baseball player, has made over $70 million playing for Major League Baseball. He's also been here for 17 years. How much of that time and money has he spent on learning English? Answer: none. So if a rich resident alien won't even bother to meet the requirements of citizenship, why would the poorer ones even bother? |
| Mr.Jingles 28.06.2007 14:52 |
I think that illegal immigrants who have a basic knowledge of english, no criminal record, and references by legal U.S. residents and citizens deserve a chance to become legal. I know illegals look for better opportunities in this country, but they have also closed a lot of doors for people who are hoping to come here legally as residents, students, or tourists. Who are we fuckin' kidding, anyways? This land has been stolen so many times that arguing about who and who shouldn't come here has shown what a bunch of hypocrites we are. Let the Native Americans (if there are any left) choose the immigration laws, then. |
| sparrow 21754 28.06.2007 15:18 |
Mr.Jingles wrote: I think that illegal immigrants who have a basic knowledge of english, no criminal record, and references by legal U.S. residents and citizens deserve a chance to become legal. I know illegals look for better opportunities in this country, but they have also closed a lot of doors for people who are hoping to come here legally as residents, students, or tourists. Who are we fuckin' kidding, anyways? This land has been stolen so many times that arguing about who and who shouldn't come here has shown what a bunch of hypocrites we are. Let the Native Americans (if there are any left) choose the immigration laws, then.:) i was going to say that hehe |
| Erin 28.06.2007 15:19 |
Micrówave wrote: And CMU, I'm not picking on you, but I hear this argument all the time:It took 3 years for Pieter to get a Green card, and the process was a pain in the ass. Lots of fees, work authorization applications, green card applications, numerous trips to Charleston, trip to Charlotte for fingerprints, photocopies of every document imaginable, and a very stressful interview. It ain't a piece of cake, but it's doable. Btw, he couldn't get a driver's license until he had a Green card!HistoryGirl wrote: If anyone knows anyone who has tried to actually become a legal citizen, is here legally, and has to go through all the hoops, it's a ridiculous mess.I know only one person, my friend Sergio who moved here from Peru and became a citizen in 6 years. No problem. |
| AspiringPhilosophe 28.06.2007 19:39 |
Erin wrote:Hey MicrowaveMicrówave wrote: And CMU, I'm not picking on you, but I hear this argument all the time:It took 3 years for Pieter to get a Green card, and the process was a pain in the ass. Lots of fees, work authorization applications, green card applications, numerous trips to Charleston, trip to Charlotte for fingerprints, photocopies of every document imaginable, and a very stressful interview. It ain't a piece of cake, but it's doable. Btw, he couldn't get a driver's license until he had a Green card!HistoryGirl wrote: If anyone knows anyone who has tried to actually become a legal citizen, is here legally, and has to go through all the hoops, it's a ridiculous mess.I know only one person, my friend Sergio who moved here from Peru and became a citizen in 6 years. No problem. I know the process is simple in steps...but that doesn't mean it always goes smoothly. How many times is paperwork you turn in to the correct agency lost? How many times do you have to make copies of things for all the times they loose stuff? How many endless phone trees do you have to be one to get the right person to speak with about this, only to have them tell you that you need to speak with someone else? Here's a mirror example: It's a simple process to get a US Passport 1) You fill out the application completely 2) You pay the fee 3) You provide copies of your birth certificate to go along with the application 4) You provide a color picture (to their measurement specifications) to be included on your passport. See? A simple, streamline, four step process. And yet how much trouble are they having getting passports issued now that the demand for them is spiking because of the new "You need a passport to get into Canada and The Bahamas" rule? Same thing happens with citizenship applications. Things get lost...people mark the wrong things...bureaucratic errors get made. It may sound simple...but it's not always as easy as it sounds. |
| iGSM 28.06.2007 21:47 |
And to think I thought about moving to America... |