QueenZone discussion #638393

John S Stuart wrote: Lisser: Good mail. PS - I was talking specifically about the failings of the UK system - I guess things are not that different in the US?

Mr.Jingles wrote: Seems like that "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND" program is really working.

John S Stuart wrote: Tough call, but as an independant, you "also" have to feel for the teacher - and other kids. I mean - my child is at the same school. Class of 30. But "his" education is deprived because this kid with special needs not only hogs all the teacher's attention, but, can also flair up at any time because of what "normally" could be perceived as an insignificant incident. At the end of the day, my kids education, and safety "may" suffer, and who cares about his rights? Then on the way home on the bus, other issues are raised where your kin can be a danger to himself and others, and perhaps for the needs of the many (re "Star Trek II") out-weigh the needs of the few? Don't get me wrong, I am only acting as devil's advocate, and I do have a sensitive, sympathetic nature, but I blame the schools system - not the kids - and certainly not your brother. My own cousin has severe cerebal palsy (is that the correct term - I'm old enough to recall when he was a spastic), but he attended a recognised Special Needs school which individually addressed his specific learning difficulties - and he loved it. There was no stigmatisation attached, and other kids just viewed him as "normal". I know that there may be philosphical arguments against this - In my opinion only (and I'm not an educational psychologist) and hey it's only a question - why is it that equal integration in "normal" schools isn't seen for what it is - a cheap and failing alternative for providing specialist care, attention, and facilities for those who really need this service? I mean you can't expect a cheap off-the-peg suit to compare to an expensive made-to-measure individualised tailor-made suit, so why does education expect a "one-size-fits-all" mentality to work with children's wants and needs? As I said, I do not wish to upset or offend anyone, but, I do think it is unfair for all concerned, for authorities (and yes even some Bolshi parents) to ignore such glaring differences, and to lump all kids together like some kind of sheep.

John S Stuart wrote: Tough call, but as an independant, you "also" have to feel for the teacher - and other kids.

I mean - my child is at the same school. Class of 30. But "his" education is deprived because this kid with special needs not only hogs all the teacher's attention, but, can also flair up at any time because of what "normally" could be perceived as an insignificant incident.

At the end of the day, my kids education, and safety "may" suffer, and who cares about his rights?

Then on the way home on the bus, other issues are raised where your kin can be a danger to himself and others, and perhaps for the needs of the many (re "Star Trek II") out-weigh the needs of the few?

Don't get me wrong, I am only acting as devil's advocate, and I do have a sensitive, sympathetic nature, but I blame the schools system - not the kids - and certainly not your brother.

My own cousin has severe cerebal palsy (is that the correct term - I'm old enough to recall when he was a spastic), but he attended a recognised Special Needs school which individually addressed his specific learning difficulties - and he loved it. There was no stigmatisation attached, and other kids just viewed him as "normal".

I know that there may be philosphical arguments against this - In my opinion only (and I'm not an educational psychologist) and hey it's only a question - why is it that equal integration in "normal" schools isn't seen for what it is - a cheap and failing alternative for providing specialist care, attention, and facilities for those who really need this service?

<b><font color = "crimson">ThomasQuinn wrote: Sarajane, for once in your life try to see things from someone else's point of view as well. They can't adapt the whole school to him, you'd harm the others that way. If it's him or the rest that has to go, it's going to be him. If he's autistic, he'll need to go to a special school, such as the one my mum used to work at, where they can handle him, and are trained to do so.

Lisser wrote: We are indeed spoiled in America with regard to public education although many Americans take for granted what is made available, yet still complain it's not enough.

Many times parents of special needs children take on this role, but it is understandable if this role is too stressful for a parent and this is where the advocate or case manager comes in to play.

Is he on any medications

or is he in any therapy sessions to help him develop coping skills for his anger outbursts and behavioral problems?

Who is in charge of making sure that he is receiving the appropriate services is the main question I have.

Does he have a physician that is in charge of his medical care? What does this physician say? Does he have a therapist or social worker that is in charge of his pyscho-social well-being? What do they say?

This all can't be blamed on the school district.

The school district does have a responsibility to provide access to education for your brother but from your description of him, he's not capable of functioning well enough at this point to be in that environment.

Why is this? There is some reason for this. Every Autistic child I know is in a school setting on some level.

Infact, most can be integrated in to regular ed for most of the school day, and attend physical education classes as well. It's a wonderful thing.

Your brother seems to be needing a lot more than what the school can do for him on the whole. Right now there are issues with him that need to be addressed before he can benefit from being in any sort of school setting in my opinion. Right now, there are bigger fish to fry with him.

Is he on any medications

They (school district) were trying to force him on a medication that had far too many side effects, so we refused that one, but we have said we wouldn't be opposed to a mild anti-depressants.

or is he in any therapy sessions to help him develop coping skills for his anger outbursts and behavioral problems?

They may have these at his school, I don't know.

Does he have a physician that is in charge of his medical care? What does this physician say? Does he have a therapist or social worker that is in charge of his pyscho-social well-being? What do they say?

We bring him to a pediatrician. His problem is not a physical problem, and we don't need a social worker.

Infact, most can be integrated in to regular ed for most of the school day, and attend physical education classes as well. It's a wonderful thing.

My brother does not talk, so putting him in a regular high school class would not be very useful, now would it?

for me to poop on wrote:

John S Stuart wrote: Tough call, but as an independant, you "also" have to feel for the teacher - and other kids. I mean - my child is at the same school. Class of 30. But "his" education is deprived because this kid with special needs not only hogs all the teacher's attention, but, can also flair up at any time because of what "normally" could be perceived as an insignificant incident. At the end of the day, my kids education, and safety "may" suffer, and who cares about his rights? Then on the way home on the bus, other issues are raised where your kin can be a danger to himself and others, and perhaps for the needs of the many (re "Star Trek II") out-weigh the needs of the few? Don't get me wrong, I am only acting as devil's advocate, and I do have a sensitive, sympathetic nature, but I blame the schools system - not the kids - and certainly not your brother. My own cousin has severe cerebal palsy (is that the correct term - I'm old enough to recall when he was a spastic), but he attended a recognised Special Needs school which individually addressed his specific learning difficulties - and he loved it. There was no stigmatisation attached, and other kids just viewed him as "normal". I know that there may be philosphical arguments against this - In my opinion only (and I'm not an educational psychologist) and hey it's only a question - why is it that equal integration in "normal" schools isn't seen for what it is - a cheap and failing alternative for providing specialist care, attention, and facilities for those who really need this service? I mean you can't expect a cheap off-the-peg suit to compare to an expensive made-to-measure individualised tailor-made suit, so why does education expect a "one-size-fits-all" mentality to work with children's wants and needs? As I said, I do not wish to upset or offend anyone, but, I do think it is unfair for all concerned, for authorities (and yes even some Bolshi parents) to ignore such glaring differences, and to lump all kids together like some kind of sheep.

cmacadamy.org works

John S Stuart wrote:

for me to poop on wrote:

John S Stuart wrote: Tough call, but as an independant, you "also" have to feel for the teacher - and other kids. I mean - my child is at the same school. Class of 30. But "his" education is deprived because this kid with special needs not only hogs all the teacher's attention, but, can also flair up at any time because of what "normally" could be perceived as an insignificant incident. At the end of the day, my kids education, and safety "may" suffer, and who cares about his rights? Then on the way home on the bus, other issues are raised where your kin can be a danger to himself and others, and perhaps for the needs of the many (re "Star Trek II") out-weigh the needs of the few? Don't get me wrong, I am only acting as devil's advocate, and I do have a sensitive, sympathetic nature, but I blame the schools system - not the kids - and certainly not your brother. My own cousin has severe cerebal palsy (is that the correct term - I'm old enough to recall when he was a spastic), but he attended a recognised Special Needs school which individually addressed his specific learning difficulties - and he loved it. There was no stigmatisation attached, and other kids just viewed him as "normal". I know that there may be philosphical arguments against this - In my opinion only (and I'm not an educational psychologist) and hey it's only a question - why is it that equal integration in "normal" schools isn't seen for what it is - a cheap and failing alternative for providing specialist care, attention, and facilities for those who really need this service? I mean you can't expect a cheap off-the-peg suit to compare to an expensive made-to-measure individualised tailor-made suit, so why does education expect a "one-size-fits-all" mentality to work with children's wants and needs? As I said, I do not wish to upset or offend anyone, but, I do think it is unfair for all concerned, for authorities (and yes even some Bolshi parents) to ignore such glaring differences, and to lump all kids together like some kind of sheep.

cmacadamy.org works

cmacadamy.org works The link does not work. Could you post one which does?

Inu-Liger<h6>-a.k.a. Richard Guilbault- wrote:

Does your brother suffer from either ADD or ADHD (Attention Deficit Disorder / Attention Hyper Deficit Disorder) by the way?

Not that we know of.

I think that's what the need of an aide (assistant) is partially for, so they can spend time with the Autistic individual to try and teach them, or help them adapt, to social norms, ie. behaving, not having fits, etc.

He has an aide at his school.

Now, I can't say I know what goes on in your household, but why would you say that you don't need a social worker for your brother? At least not one that takes him out to give you guys a break (aka. temporary relief), even if it's for 2-4 hours each week?

Why would we want a government busybody whom we barely know to watch a family member for 2-4 hours each week, we he is out of the house 10 hours a weekday anyway?

It doesn't matter if he talks or not. If he has an aide to help him do his work (as I have seen with another severely autistic boy I did volunteer work with about 2 years ago, named Thomas, and he doesn't talk either!), then at least he will have some sort of work to hand in that the school and/or the district can give him marks for and let him advance further until and including grade 12, even if he won't be able to do courses that would normally otherwise let people enter College or University with (eg. Mathematics 30 Applied / Pure, Science, etc.)

My brother is in an ungraded school, and he does do work at that school. It would not suit him to put him in a mainstream school at all.

Lisser wrote: There are no negatives to having him in a regular ed classroom as long as it's beneficial to him and is not taking away from the other children learning.

I would not be so quick to blame every road block on your brother's school district. Work with them, not against them.

Lisser wrote:

Not to mention how poorly teachers are paid.

My sons' grade school ART teacher had a salary of over $103,000 for 9 months work. Over $100,000 for a lousy art teacher in a public school ... and he is not even a very good teacher.

Rip Van Winkle wrote:

Lisser wrote:

Not to mention how poorly teachers are paid.

My sons' grade school ART teacher had a salary of over $103,000 for 9 months work. Over $100,000 for a lousy art teacher in a public school ... and he is not even a very good teacher.

What state is this??!! Is this public school? WOW!!! Our Asst. Superintendents don't even make that much. Our Superintendent does. I'd say the highest paid teacher in my district with a Rank 1 is about $57,000. That is with two Master's degrees, and about 27 years of experience. I am a 12 month employee, not 9 1/4 like teachers but I'd love to come to the district your son is in!!!
FGT, ok I guess your school district is incompetent like you say. Hopeless I guess. Good luck and I wish your brother success.

FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote: My school district is made up of the most incompetent group of people on the face of the earth. At the high school, students have taken a dump in a stairwell and they still have not figured out who did it. People keep writing the N-word on the bathroom walls. The bathrooms themselves are smokestacks and either the floors are covered in liquid and/or there's no toilet paper. Students broke in last year and stole an entire cart of laptop computers. And that's not even everything. Then the middle school, people would sexually harrass or beat up other individuals and nothing would be done. A girl I know had "____ [her name] is a dyke" written on the locker room wall and it just stayed there the entire year. A girl with epilepsy had another girl throw basketballs at her head. The district was, last year, in a surplus, and this year, with its new superintendent, it is 4.3 mil in the hole. What more can I say??? They are INCOMPETENT.

Music Man wrote:

Let me say that I sympathize with your situation. However, everything is not so black and white, especially when it comes to school management. School districts are quite easy to blame, or put off as "incompetent," but even if the administration consisted of the most efficient, intelligent people, I still doubt your school would amend itself.

FYI, my administation is NOT made up of efficient, intelligent people. I have watched the board meetings, and they barely know what they are talking about. The school board members all run on both tickets so there's no way to get rid of them.

Let me begin by saying that in order for a school to function, it needs money. The amount of money the government provides for a given school in the average district is very rarely sufficient. So how does the school get more money? The taxpayers have to vote on it. Taxpayers are divided into two groups of people: "those that care" and "those that don't." The latter group often far outnumbers the former group, so many of these are not passed.

Taxes around here are VERY high. We keep giving the district our money, and the district keeps shitting it away on such things as making an entire section of the school for 9th graders.

Also, of the money that the school is given, most of it, if not all, must be spent very specifically. For instance, $3 million dollars is not just $3 million dollars; it is $3 million dollars that must be spent upon repairs of the school rooftop. It is $3 million dollars that must be spent by the biology department. It is not $3 million dollars to be used freely.

In our district, $3 million which we do not have, which is why none of the teachers have supplies. They need to buy their own print cartredgides and paper since the school board is in the hole.

You are blaming the new superintendent for the 4.3 million deficit of your school, but I am sure he spent the money where it needed to be. There is never a reason for a surplus in a school district.

By the same token, then, I suppose George W. Bush can't be blamed for the U.S. deficit? However, people always do blame him for it, "Clinton had a surplus". Well, it is sufficiently harder to run a large country than it is to run five schools. Also, our new superintendent was formerly assistant superintendent at a nearby school which ended up even worse-off than we are. They need metal detectors and there are missing ceiling tiles with exposed wires.

Might I also mention the almighty teacher's union that perpetually has all the school administrations around the nation by the balls. Basically, this means teachers first, then students. It's that simple.

The fact that teachers are on a union doesn't make the administration competent.

How is this incompetence? Firstly, who cares who did it? From what I hear, I'm sure the administration has much bigger things to worry about. This is a very insignificant, localized problem, to be maybe carried out by the vice principal, if he feels like it.

This is insigificant? It's insigificant that students have to walk through a stairwell that has feces and urine in it? Then what IS significant?

This seems to be a problem of the custodians, once again, not the administration. If maintenance does not want to do its job particularly well, there's little the administration can do to fix this. It's unlikely in any case that a janitor will really care about his job, anyway. Taking care of things that aren't one's property will always lead to negligence.

It's not a janitorial matter. When you get into writing the N-word all over the place, that can be considered a hate crime, and the writing that that girl was a "dyke" is harrassment AND a hate crime. But yet, what's a few hate crimes in this distr

John S Stuart wrote: With that sort of negative attitude, there is really nothing else anyone can say - or do - to help.

FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:

John S Stuart wrote: With that sort of negative attitude, there is really nothing else anyone can say - or do - to help.

I don't have a negative attitude, I just know the district is full of shit.