| FreddiesGhettoTrench 07.07.2005 20:46 |
Come on you guys. I see a lot of hatred towards our Middle-Eastern and Muslim neighbors. It is understandable that you are lashing out, and it is alright to be angry, but please remember that people from the Middle East are not all to blame for these attacks. Remember in fact that in the countries we are fighting, extremist dictatorships have in the past been oppressing innocent Muslims and non-Muslim Middle-Easterners. The average Middle-Easterner/Muslim is just as horrified and angered by these attacks as any other person. Please do not allow your anger to overcome your common sense and lash out at innocent people. |
| Sonia Doris 08.07.2005 08:01 |
U know, I came to think that if the world wouldn't have been the way it is, I wouldn't be the person I am. Dunno if it's a good thing or not, but I like me the way I am, I guess. ^_^ Another selfish Soniac post... :P Anyways, we can't stop the hate, nor the religious (or any kind of) extremisms. The only thing we can do is to teach our children and/or our friends that it's better to live in peace with yourself and the world, than to try to impose your own set of values by force... kiss kiss, Sonia |
| The Fairy King 08.07.2005 08:03 |
I'm Muslim. Bring it on! |
| Sonia Doris 08.07.2005 08:18 |
<font color=#C5150>The Fairy King</font> wrote: I'm Muslim. Bring it on!And I'm Romanian... Hating people for their religion or nationality is something I abhor the most... What are you expecting people to say about you just because you are muslim? The image you have is what you create for yourself and what you want people to see. You should know that ;-) |
| Fenderek 08.07.2005 08:26 |
It's so stupid. People who say Muslims this or that actually become exactly the thing they are apparently fighting... They say they're fighting with ahtred and fanaticism but... with hatred and fanaticism? They're as dangerous... |
| Sonia Doris 08.07.2005 08:33 |
If we started about Muslims, let's expand the discussion to what the Catholic church did throughout history... oh, and the Roman Empire, the Ancient Greeks... etc. I totally agree that this type of hatred makes you as bad or worse as the thing you hate (I mean if the hate is really founded)... In fact, I like Muslims very much, and I mean Arabian culture (Ancient and present), Turkish etc. It has a lot of colors (and colors give life), and great stories. I could stay and listen to those stories for days gone by... :D |
| The Fairy King 08.07.2005 08:36 |
<font color=#CC0066>Sonia Doris</font> wrote:I know that, but people think that what they know IS the truth. I just don't give a damn what they think anymore, it's not worth the energy to try and talk with these people. I'm just giving the information they need so they can bash me and put me in the same category as these fucks that keep doing these terrible things.<font color=#C5150>The Fairy King</font> wrote: I'm Muslim. Bring it on!And I'm Romanian... Hating people for their religion or nationality is something I abhor the most... What are you expecting people to say about you just because you are muslim? The image you have is what you create for yourself and what you want people to see. You should know that ;-) |
| Sonia Doris 08.07.2005 08:44 |
It's terrible this need of the humankind to label people in order to bash them... It's been like that since forever... Oh, and if you try to be different is even worse... |
| The Mir@cle 08.07.2005 08:51 |
The problem is that people blame this to all the Muslims. The differences between the cultures will grow, which can be the reason for new violence. It's hard to stop this violence spiral. A good example is the Middle East. We have to find a solution to live with each other, instead of killing each other. |
| Fairy 08.07.2005 09:13 |
Generalizing is the worst mistake. But finding excuses for murderers is just as bad. In the West we tend too often to blame it all on ourselves, our leaders, our ways of life. I can't tolerate this. Sure, the Catholic church caused huge disasters in the past, and the Catholic leaders actually acknowledged this and apologized. Now it's the Muslim turn. Now they are the killers, just like the Catholics were the killers in the past. This does not mean that I should find justification for what the Muslim extremists are doing. I know the great majority of Muslims are peaceful, wonderful people. I just wish they would speak out more against these mass murders. I can't forget the joyous crowd jumping and partying in Palestine on Sept 11th... Can you, guys? Fairy |
| Sonia Doris 08.07.2005 09:13 |
Usually the fear of the unknown creates violence. People don't know a lot of things about muslims (except what they see on CNN or whatever when terrorist attacks happen), so they create this narrowminded impression that all Muslims are religious extremists and they should be killed... Burak is one of the best examples, I think, to prove this theory of hate is false though... |
| Fairy 08.07.2005 09:20 |
What I feel so terrible about is that they're able to bring out the worst of me. I never thought I could hate, now I do. And I dislike myself for hating! But what are we supposed to do? In war adversaries fight one another. Here we are like in a war but we are just under attack, and we can't defend ourselves because there's no visible enemy. It's an awful feeling. There's nothing you can do. Don't say dialog is the way. You can't have any dialog with terrorists. Deep cultural changes are needed, but they can only come from within the Muslim societies. There's very little we can do from here, if not eradicate the brutal leaders like it happened with Hitler. I think we have the right to be angry, at least, since we can't do anything else.......! Should I apologize for being angry, now??! Fairy |
| Sonia Doris 08.07.2005 09:23 |
Of course, blame it on the Muslims. U think that they want this to happen (exc the terrorists? - and thank God there are a lot of Caucasian and Christian terrorists - wanna talk about them now???)? It's always easier to blame it on the other one. Maybe dialogue will fail, but one thing is needed: to get to know the other. |
| Fairy 08.07.2005 09:26 |
Iraq is an attempt to eradicate a brutal regime. I think nobody here in Europe believes the Americans were wrong when they came here and lost so many lives in order to eradicate Hitler's regime. Iraq is the same thing. But after World War II ended, it was the people of Germany and Europe in general who started rebuilding their countries on the basis of democracy and peace. The Iraqis now are called to do just that. You can't demand outside help forever! |
| John S Stuart 08.07.2005 09:27 |
This is meant to stir up debate, NOT hatrid or prjudice. Hypothetically, a group of Marsians visit the Earth. This deligate, blow up a bus of innocent victims, and bring down not one, but two skyscapers of more innocent lives. Do we, A: (like Speilberg's movie) declare war. B: Await the next Martian arrival - just to make sure? C: Invite Martian diplomats for Tea and aromatherapy or D; Because all Martians are different (even though they look the same) - do we allow "friendly" visitors to arrive in tandam with those determined to take over the Earth? As I said, this is not meant to stir up prejudice. It is a realistic question - looking for sensible answers, or options which I may have overlooked or not considered. |
| Fairy 08.07.2005 09:29 |
OK then go to Bin Laden's cave, Sonia, and tell him that you're sad about the latest events and would like to talk it over with him, and to know him a little better...!!! Of course I don't blame it on all the Muslims! As a matter of fact, my ex boyfriend was a Muslim!!! But get real. Today it is Muslim fanatism. I don't think the Muslims are happy about this, but I don't hear many Muslim leaders speak out against this either... |
| Fairy 08.07.2005 09:32 |
John, I think I would certainly go for C, maybe letting aromatherapy alone LOL. But after a few years of failure of C and after a few thousands of civilian lives lost I think I would change my plans... |
| The Fairy King 08.07.2005 09:36 |
the_hero wrote:lol ;)<font color=#C5150>The Fairy King</font> wrote: I'm Muslim. Bring it on!lol YOU YOU.. damn I can't |
| Erin 08.07.2005 09:37 |
John S Stuart wrote: This is meant to stir up debate, NOT hatrid or prjudice. Hypothetically, a group of Marsians visit the Earth. This deligate, blow up a bus of innocent victims, and bring down not one, but two skyscapers of more innocent lives. Do we, A: (like Speilberg's movie) declare war. B: Await the next Martian arrival - just to make sure? C: Invite Martian diplomats for Tea and aromatherapy or D;Personally, I would be hiding under a rock somewhere if aliens came.. |
| Fairy 08.07.2005 09:55 |
Erin wrote:Personally, I would be hiding under a rock somewhere if aliens came..LOL Why? I'd die to meet aliens! |
| Erin 08.07.2005 10:03 |
Fairy wrote:Erin wrote:And you might if they came and blew up buildings right away!Personally, I would be hiding under a rock somewhere if aliens came..LOL Why? I'd die to meet aliens! |
| bitesthedust 08.07.2005 13:51 |
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| doremi 08.07.2005 13:52 |
Fairy wrote: Generalizing is the worst mistake. But finding excuses for murderers is just as bad. In the West we tend too often to blame it all on ourselves, our leaders, our ways of life. I can't tolerate this. Sure, the Catholic church caused huge disasters in the past, and the Catholic leaders actually acknowledged this and apologized. Now it's the Muslim turn. Now they are the killers, just like the Catholics were the killers in the past. This does not mean that I should find justification for what the Muslim extremists are doing. I know the great majority of Muslims are peaceful, wonderful people. I just wish they would speak out more against these mass murders. I can't forget the joyous crowd jumping and partying in Palestine on Sept 11th... Can you, guys? FairyHate..is taught. I was Apalled when during 911, I saw footage in Palestine and other Arab nations ..of 5 and 6 year old CHILDREN, holding rifles, shooting them, off and into the sky, yelling ''death to the Americans''! This from 5 and 6 year olds. But their parents and adults teach them that. Hate is taught. Intolerance, prejudic,e opression are all propaganda lies and taught. But..imagine if adults would teach children compassion, huamity, tolerance. Unfortunately, they don't. Sad. |
| bitesthedust 08.07.2005 13:59 |
Arlene R. Weiss wrote: Hate..is taught. I was Apalled when during 911, I saw footage in Palestine and other Arab nations ..of 5 and 6 year old CHILDREN, holding rifles, shooting them, off and into the sky, yelling ''death to the Americans''! This from 5 and 6 year olds. But their parents and adults teach them that. Hate is taught. Intolerance, prejudic,e opression are all propaganda lies and taught. But..imagine if adults would teach children compassion, huamity, tolerance. Unfortunately, they don't. Sad.Quite right. |
| John S Stuart 08.07.2005 14:12 |
Arlene R. Weiss wrote: Hate..is taught. I was Apalled when during 911, I saw footage in Palestine and other Arab nations ..of 5 and 6 year old CHILDREN, holding rifles, shooting them, off and into the sky, yelling ''death to the Americans''! This from 5 and 6 year olds. But their parents and adults teach them that. Hate is taught. Intolerance, prejudic,e opression are all propaganda lies and taught. But..imagine if adults would teach children compassion, huamity, tolerance. Unfortunately, they don't. Sad. I agree. But what do we do in the meantime, with those already disturbed kids - who will grow into even more disturbed adults? They sure as hell are not going to listen to reason, or sit still in a classroom. |
| doremi 08.07.2005 16:38 |
From Brian's website today: **Fri 08 JUl 05** THE BOMBINGS IN LONDON Q: What is the definition of an idiot ? A: Someone who keeps on doing the same thing, and expects a different result. I sense there is a mood of quiet resolve among the people I speak to. We are feeling that we must not go any further down the road of escalation .... this is old stuff, but I personally feel that in the wake of 9/11 an opportunity was missed .... to seek understanding rather than revenge. The Nelson Mandela way. I do not subscribe to this "War on Terrorism" slogan. I believe we have a need to secure a peaceful world for our children, and that it cannot be done by exerting our muscle internationally. It sure hasn't worked yet, has it?! It must be done by adjusting OUR behaviour; we must stop playing "Cowboys and Indians" - a self-damning phrase if ever there was one. I no longer believe we are the good guys. We must earn this view of ourselves, and start recognising that there are other legitimate views of the world than ours. I'm afraid the comet-smashing philosophy is to blame ! Maybe I'm overdoing this, but there is a kind of arrogance that goes with this, which makes us dangerous.... Every time I fly (which is almost almost every day right now !) I walk past the conspicuous plastic case of confiscated nail clippers and tiny scissors, and think to myself ..."are we really fooling ourselves that by doing this we are making our world safe? " Yesterday in London must have shown us that we have no hope of solving the "Terrorist Problem" with this kind of sticking plaster. So where do we go from here ? Search everyone before they go on a bus? On a tube train ? Walking down the street? This is the road to insanity .... a climate of fear, which, sadly, the USA is already experiencing. It's time we attacked the cause rather than the symptoms. I want to see our politicians answer the question "WHY?" WHY do people hate us this much? What can we do to change this? It's no use thinking we are dealing with a small bunch of maniacs, as seems to be the popular view, who need to be "stamped out". The reality is we are looking at a large number of entire countries of people to whom the American (and English) flag is a symbol of evil. Of selfishness and bullying imperialist aggression. THIS is what we must address. This is what we owe it to our children to do. In my opinion. Bri I agree with some and only a little of the thought and intention of what Brian said. But...Brian's thoughts on the way to deal with it, and how he sees things idealically, but WHAT these fanatics are in reality, I TOTALLY don't. I am no cynic, but Brian is looking at things from a rose colored glasses view like these are rational humane people that will sit down to a peaceful, diplomatic dialogue. Basically...Brian said that the capitalistic nations, the USA, the UK, Western nations, etc...are in effect arrogant, too full of themselves and brought this hate on themselves. That's like saying a woman who wears provacative clothing brings a rape on herself...how archaic. He says fighting fire with fire is wrong..and is Brian is adhereing to the lovely but not very realistic ideal, of trying to rationally sit down and communicate with these fascists fanatics and turn the other cheek. Look, I ABHOR violence and war. And yes, the USA (which I am from) and many western nations are as Brian says ''imperialistic, arrogant''. But...that is NO reason, EVER to cowardly butcher innocent men, women and children and on that I totally disagree with Brian. If you have a problem with our government, fine, talk to our government. That is WHY the Western nations have the United Nations and diplomats and embassies around the world. And if you want to fight. Do so with honor. In combat with soldiers. Not launching ''terrorist'' attacks on women and children, on civilians, on civil |
| John S Stuart 08.07.2005 20:35 |
The problem Arlene, is not whether you are right or wrong, but in a few months time, this sort of debate will be outlawed in the UK under a new citation to hate legislation. This is what annoys me - the politcal correctness gone mad. The brutal, evil attacks on London on Thursday will leave many mourning, hurt, angry and ofcourse will leave some seeking justice or revenge. But while these evil bast*rds cowardly leave explosive packages on civilian buses, the worst thing to do, (IMO) is to curtail my freedom of speech, so that my accusation of evil, is considered to be just as unlawful. My point is that nothing can ever be resolved if at first, we are not permitted to air such views. |
| Saint Jiub 08.07.2005 21:47 |
Citation to hate legislation? Please explain this to me and hopefully tell me that has not yet been enacted. |
| John S Stuart 09.07.2005 00:52 |
Rip Van Winkle: Citation to hate legislation? Please explain this to me and hopefully tell me that has not yet been enacted. Basically, in the UK, it will be a criminal offence to say anything which could be veiwed prejudicial against someone's race or religion - as this offence may be construed as incitement. As (PC) usual, the largest group of targeted criminals will be the indiginous UK male - who may be imprisoned for such serious offences as reciting a Muslim joke, while on the other hand, certain extremists, from all religious factions, will still be able to freely spout hate at spots like Hyde Park corner - free from any molestation. Below I have pasted some links from Google, but let me express in the strongest terms - I am NOT a religious person, so the bottom Christian viewpoint is NOT my own - I only include it so that the overall information provided is both well-rounded and complete. As usual - it is up to the individual to draw their own conclusions. link link link |
| Fairy 09.07.2005 08:34 |
Arlene, you wrote in your usual beautiful language exactly how I feel, word by word. I totally disagree with Brian. I'll take it further and say that I actually feel disgusted. So he's just like all those idiots who will preach peace and love, since this certainly does no harm to their image. They have no guts, no convictions. All they do is sing, party, and pretend they do it to raise awareness for the problems of the world...This from their safe homes, and with billions in their bank accounts. This to me is pure hypocrisy. So Brian is one of those jerks who will blame the very culture that gave them fame and fortune, wealth, comforts...If they lived in Africa, like you said, would they enjoy the same luxury? No, dear. If they lived in the countries they seem to appreciate more than their fatherland, they probably would have been arrested by now just because there's a "fuck" in their lyrics. Brian, fucking hypocrit. You're just like R.E.M., who go to Cuba and praise Castro. If they lived in Cuba, their lead singer would be in jail just because he's gay. Stop being hypocrits everyone. You are benefiting from capitalism, and you are benefiting from the brave soldiers who are fighting for us, while you have your asses comfortably resting on your chairs and sit at the PC chatting of Queen and on the problems of the world (me included, of course). I'm not a brave person. But at least I have the humility to acknowledge that there are braver people around who are risking their lives to defend me. The rest is just hot air. Nice words which everybody likes but which have become empty. Tolerance must be taught. Hate must be eradicated. But like John says, what do we do in the meantime?? I'm sick with hypocrits just as much as I am of the terrorists...Because hhypocrits actually help the terrorists. Brian does too. I think Freddie would never have made such a statement. He always said politics should not enter music. At least he would have kept his mouth shot. If he had lived in Iraq, Freddie would have been tortured just because he was a gayman. I'm sure he knew that, and knew better than to criticize the culture that gave him fame. Fairy |
| Fairy 09.07.2005 08:38 |
John I totally agree with you. I've said this before in other threads. It's this political correctness that is destroying us. We are labeled as racists if we dare say that we are fucking angry. Sure Muslims are not all alike. I think this is an overused statement which everyone in their right mind agrees with. But if my neighbor had 10 children and 8 are good and 2 are evil, wouldn't I try to defend myself from the 2 just because the other 8 are good??? We sure have flaws but it's high time we stop criticizing our own culture. This is the weapon they're using against us. Our political correctness. I love the Tibetans, and I sympathize greatly with their cause. I sponsor a Tibetan child in India for her education, and help the Tibetan community near me as I can. But I don't agree with their mentality. They're the biggest example of turning the other cheek, and of how this is gradually but swiftly causing their disappearance from the world as a race and as a State. I don't want to end up like that... I want to show tolerance to those who deserve it, but no tolerance for those who hurt my people, or who dare interfere with my way of life. Fairy |
| Fairy 09.07.2005 08:43 |
bitesthedust wrote: |
| The Mir@cle 09.07.2005 08:53 |
Don't you people think that the arrogance of Bush is feed for the terrorists??... You're right, 911 triggered this but do we have to react like this?? Like I said before on this board, it's gonna be like the Middle East. You bomb me?? Ok, than I'll bomb you. Something like this will never end. |
| Mr.Jingles 09.07.2005 10:29 |
You guys wanna know how many innocent people have been "accidentally" killed by coallition forces just in order to fight terrorism? You must be living in a fantasy world if you think that people who have lost their homes and their loved ones will calmly understand that it's all done for the sake of fighting terrorism. But turns out to be that we have terrorists on both sides. The problem is that here in the West we call our own form of terrorism by a much nicer name... RETALIATION. |
| doremi 09.07.2005 12:05 |
Fairy Wrote: ''If he had lived in Iraq, Freddie would have been tortured just because he was a gayman. I'm sure he knew that, and knew better than to criticize the culture that gave him fame.'' [quote] Fairy, so true. I also have read several interviews with Freddie where he also said he did NOT like Zanzibar. That it was a poor, 3rd world type, dirty nation of squalor and Freddie ADORED good old capitalistic, but SAFE, Tolerant England. And yes, Freddie's ancestry was from Iran, where it is against the law and punisahable by law to be Gay. Most of these 3rd world nations are so backward, barbaric...not by my standards of western world teachings...but by the standards of VALUE FOR HUMAN LIFE. David Bowie's wife, the African model, Iman, has done TONS of awareness campaigns, especially here in the USA, on shows like Oprah, about how in most Africans nations, young girls and women are regularly raped, molested, tortured, beaten, and...MAIMED by their own fathers, husbands, etc...and that is considered..OK. Pre-teen girls are gand raped and maimed. Or if a man's wife gives birth to a girl, well except for doing chores, women are considered as having no value..even as a human being. So it's ok for a father to kill his infant daughter. Islamic men do pretty much the same in Arab nations to their women and children too. Before a nation condemns MY nation's culture and ways...they had better come out of the stone age and learn the word HUMANITY in regards and respect to their OWN citizens and people, half the time who expect we..the western world, to save them from their own barbaric leaders. That's hypocritical too. Africa, the 3rd world, Afganistan, Cuba, all in the last half century, their OWN people come to the Western nations asking for asylum and protection, so that shows you how bad it is in their nations. Then their leaders KILL US! As for trying to not get involved and letting nations take care of their own problems. Look at WW2. The USA was NOT in the war, avoided involvement. We painfully watched our frineds in the UK, Poland, France, all being blitzed, slaughtered, and invaded by the Germans. BUT we stayed OUT of it. So what happens? On a quiet Sunday morning, the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor, killing unarmed military men, while they are still sleeping in bed and can't defend themselves and slaughter the whole base. That's what turning the other cheek did for the USA in WW2. Then..we HAD to fight and got into WW2. It was not retaliation, it was not revenge, ok maybe it was somewhat, but MOSTLY... ... it was defending ourselves and fighting back. |
| Fairy 09.07.2005 12:12 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: You guys wanna know how many innocent people have been "accidentally" killed by coallition forces just in order to fight terrorism? |
| Mr.Jingles 09.07.2005 13:40 |
So it is justified to kill innocent just to get rid of terrorists? I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense to me at all. The more innocent people who die, the more this war will never end. Besides, who said that violence always works? Martin Luther King and Gandhi were able to put an end to opression and liberate their people without firing one single bullet. Take for instance the situation in Israel and the Palestinian territories. There's no doubt that Sharon and Arafat were two of the greatest war criminals who have ever existed. Sharon wasn't willing to negotiate with Arafat, and that definitely put a halt to any possibilities of achieving peace. Now that Arafat is dead, it seems like Sharon has been able to establish a much better relationship with Abbas towards achieving peace. Now, I really wish that Sharon could be sent to trial for crimes against humanity, but I'd much rather let the guy stay in power as long as he's able to work a peace agreement than keep fighting such a non-sense war. Let God judge this man for whatever he's done. |
| doremi 09.07.2005 14:09 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: So it is justified to kill innocent just to get rid of terrorists? I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense to me at all. The more innocent people who die, the more this war will never end. Besides, who said that violence always works? Martin Luther King and Gandhi were able to put an end to opression and liberate their people without firing one single bullet. Take for instance the situation in Israel and the Palestinian territories. There's no doubt that Sharon and Arafat were two of the greatest war criminals who have ever existed. Sharon wasn't willing to negotiate with Arafat, and that definitely put a halt to any possibilities of achieving peace. Now that Arafat is dead, it seems like Sharon has been able to establish a much better relationship with Abbas towards achieving peace. Now, I really wish that Sharon could be sent to trial for crimes against humanity, but I'd much rather let the guy stay in power as long as he's able to work a peace agreement than keep fighting such a non-sense war. Let God judge this man for whatever he's done.Martin Luther King and Ghandi...were ASSASINATED and killed by the same type of butchering fanatics who bombed London and the World Trade Towers. That's what you get for doing the right, humane, peaceful, thing. All through time, the civil disobediants like Ghandi, Luther King, the Tibetans...get slaughtered. The jews thought if they adopted civil disobediance at the beginning of WW2, the Germans would leave them alone. The jews said..do NOT fight them. Turn the other cheek. Try to have a dialogue with them. Yeah and 6 million jews along with Poles, catholics, Gays, mentally and physically handicpped people, gypsies, were nearly wiped out in Genocide. I am Jewish. I do not subscribe to violence. But after WW2, the Jews said..NEVER again. Now we fight. Not because fighting is right. Sometimes it is your only choice for survival, literally, to be alive. Even we Americans. Didn't the original settlers, Pilgrims and immigrants come to the USA for religous and other tolerance. Did we not fight England...now our best ally and friend, for the right to be FREE and NOT oppressed. And as I stated before, how many dissidants and immigrants, TODAT come to the USA and the UK from 3rd world puppet dictator regimes...to seek asylum and protection. I will NEVER condone violence. But in the USA we have that old bill of rights, ''The right to bear arms'' for a reason. If a soldier or terrorist comes to my home to torture or kill me, I am NOT going to let them slaughter me like sheep. I will fight like a viking, even if I still die, I will defend my right...TO LIVE. |
| Fairy 09.07.2005 14:42 |
You can't compare terrorism to the Palestinian-Israeli situation. In the latter we have 2 leaders who can confront each other and hopefully strike a deal. But with terrorism, who should we negotiate with?? What should we negotiate BTW?? These terrorists don't want something from us which we may grant them, like land. They want to destroy our culture, our way of life. |
| Mr.Jingles 09.07.2005 14:50 |
Fairy wrote: You can't compare terrorism to the Palestinian-Israeli situation. In the latter we have 2 leaders who can confront each other and hopefully strike a deal. But with terrorism, who should we negotiate with?? What should we negotiate BTW?? These terrorists don't want something from us which we may grant them, like land. They want to destroy our culture, our way of life.I'm not saying we should negotiate with terrorists, but rather not give them more motives to attack us and create a lot more terrorists along the way. Have you ever thought how many kids who have lost their loved ones on air bombings by coallition forces will grow up to become terrorists? If we're going to fight terrorists then we should fight them in a way that will ensure the protection of innocent civilians, and if there's any one to attack should be the terrorists directly. You can't just bomb a place that is suspected to have terrorists regardless of the posibility that there might be innocent civilians that could be put at high risk. Of course, if the innocent civilians were American or British, the story would be completely different. |
| Fairy 09.07.2005 14:51 |
Arlene, again I agree with you 100%. Nonviolence in some cases will lead to your people being slaughtered and wiped out from the Earth. I do hate violence. Personally, I feel bad even killing a fly! But another thing is self-defense. The only solution I see along with wars on terrorism is a peaceful revolution from within these countries that generate suicide bombers. This however must be done from within the countries, and we can do little to help, except help restore democracy, wich is exactly what the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have done. Now it's time the Afghanis and Iraqis start caring for themselves, like Europe did after it was liberated by the allies. Fairy |
| Fairy 09.07.2005 14:56 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: You can't just bomb a place that is suspected to have terrorists regardless of the posibility that there might be innocent civilians that could be put at high risk. |
| Mr.Jingles 09.07.2005 15:05 |
The coallition "tries" to some extent to prevent civilian casualities, but there's been a great number of mistakes either based on carrying missions the wrong way or lack of information about targets. Just put yourself on someone else's shoes. How would you feel if a loved one was "accidentally" killed by someone who was targeting someone else? |
| doremi 09.07.2005 15:11 |
Like I said before, isn't it amazing, all throught time, when you have civil disobediant people and leaders like Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Anwar Sadat (the 1st Arab leader to make peace with Isreal), Lincoln, the Tibetans, what do they get for their peaceful dialogue... ..assasinated..for doing the right thing. Again, look at the citizens of these same terrorist nations. The citizens hate and fear their regimes and leaders. How many boatloads of refugees from Cuba, Haiti, South Vietnam, (Communist era Russia), Africa, South America, come here seeking safety and their very lives. Terrorism is just a Millennium term for the savagery that has gone on since the beginning of time and before there was codes of ''civilization''. Evil and brutality has always existed. it's just that in modern times, there are ''civilized'' good cultures who try to do more than tun around raping and pillaging like our ancestors did. Unfortunately, we are in the minority. |
| Fairy 09.07.2005 15:20 |
Mr.Jingles79 wrote: The coallition "tries" to some extent to prevent civilian casualities, but there's been a great number of mistakes either based on carrying missions the wrong way or lack of information about targets. Just put yourself on someone else's shoes. How would you feel if a loved one was "accidentally" killed by someone who was targeting someone else?Of course I agree it is terrible and more. But until someone comes up with a better solution, I don't see any other way out than war. What kind of solution would you suggest? |
| The Mir@cle 09.07.2005 15:37 |
Fairy wrote: Arlene, again I agree with you 100%. Nonviolence in some cases will lead to your people being slaughtered and wiped out from the Earth. I do hate violence. Personally, I feel bad even killing a fly! But another thing is self-defense. The only solution I see along with wars on terrorism is a peaceful revolution from within these countries that generate suicide bombers. This however must be done from within the countries, and we can do little to help, except help restore democracy, wich is exactly what the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have done. Now it's time the Afghanis and Iraqis start caring for themselves, like Europe did after it was liberated by the allies. FairyPeaceful revolution?? Restore democracy?? You don't wanna know how many innocent people died by American bombs... And all those suicide bombing wouldn't have happened if America wasn't there. The Iraqis and Afghanis can't care for themselves, because they never have done that before. And the biggest problem is that they don't have the chance to care for themselves. America wants to hold the power in his own hands, because of the economic advantages. Do ya really think that Bush invaded Iraq to find the mass descruction weapons?? Or because they generate suicide bombers?? Sadam was/is one of the most evil persons on the world. But no hair on his head thought about attacking America. Simply because it should have been his end. America is the country who creates the most suicide bombers... Just because of their arrogance. |
| Fairy 09.07.2005 15:48 |
The Mir@cle, I don't give a damn why Bush invaded these countries. I only know that by invading them, he liberated them, and now there's a bit more control over those areas which harbor training camps where young people are taught that if they kill 3000 innocent civilians in the West they'll go to Heaven and will have 75 virgins to fuck. Why did America "invade" Europe in World War II? I actually don't give a shit. All I know is that we were liberated from the Nazis. Now why is it different in this case? I ask you guys again what solution you propose to end these terrorist attacks. So far all you were able to do is to complain about our leaders, but you haven't suggested anything even close to a viable solution. So until you or anyone does, wars on terror are the only solution. Fairy |