icmrocha (The Man From Planet Marzipan) 18.08.2004 08:12 |
Hey guys, i used to have an account here as ICMROCHA but i don't know... i had some sort of problem with that... so, i had to create a new account... odd isn't it??? Well, now let's go to the serious part heheheh Do you guys now if there's gonna be any overdub on the CD/DVD of Milton Keynes?? Of course Freddie is not working with it, but i mean, audio from some other Hot Space tour concert or anything... do you guys know anything?? |
Fenderek 18.08.2004 08:28 |
I'm pretty sure there are gonna be overdubs- I don't believe we'll hear Fred's squeak during FAT BOTTOMED GIRLS or Brian's mistake during Brighton Rock Solo... Probably they'll patch it up here and there... Nevertheless- it's gonna be SOMETHING!!! Something much bigger and better than Wembley... |
icmrocha (The Man From Planet Marzipan) 18.08.2004 08:39 |
Oh yeah!! i really think that it's gonna be MUCH bigger than wembley... i'm really expecting this one.... it's just that.... well, i really would like to hear the guys as they were..... Humans, with the right to make some mistakes... what you think?... Does this concert have other mistakes? i have the bootleg but i haven't heard it in a long time |
Maz 18.08.2004 11:17 |
:=[Tom Cat]=: (former ICMROCHA) wrote: Do you guys now if there's gonna be any overdub on the CD/DVD of Milton Keynes??Has there ever been an official live Queen release without overdubs? |
The Real Wizard 18.08.2004 17:46 |
Live Magic was definitely clean. All that was done to those tracks was multi-track mixing. I can assure you of that. The only strange thing is at the end of Break Free, where on "Free"... it seems like a cut, but the ending is also from Knebworth. |
artist_nine 19.08.2004 03:56 |
I would disagree about Live Magic being clean of overdubs. For example, A Kind Of Magic is clearly taken from the Budapest concert. However, the end bit "will soon be will soon be..." sung by Freddie is overdubbed (or taken from another concert). On the VHS Live in Budapest you can hear Freddie singing the part very low, but on Live Magic Freddie magically gets his voice back and sings much higher. Could anyone confirm this, or am I wrong? |
Jjeroen 19.08.2004 05:15 |
It's taken from another concert yes. Same with Live Killers were also some songs are being patched together form different shows... |
[StArMaN] 19.08.2004 05:54 |
This is not an overdub, this is an editing. Ok they cheated a bit, but there is no proof that somthing was re-recorded. |
Penis - Vagina 19.08.2004 05:56 |
This topic of overdubs comes up a lot lately and I have to say I'm torn. On one hand it would be nice if they'd keep the shows as original as possible, warts and all, but I do see how when the time comes for release, they're gonna want to fix things up here and there to make a more pleasing release and hide embarrassing flubs. The only thing that's certain is they're gonna continue to do this. The best you could hope for is to perhaps let Brian know that this is a concern and encourage them to keep it as minimal as possible. I've just searched Brian's site and can't find any letters or comments about this.. anyone know if he's addressed the issue before, or perhaps he doesn't want to talk about it? :) |
Jjeroen 19.08.2004 06:29 |
Non-overdubbed live-albums by any artist are exceptions! Some artists dub more then others but 95 out of all official live album by any artist ever released has at least some overdubbing. (and yes, edititing is something else!) |
Daz85 19.08.2004 06:36 |
If you want an example of a really overdubbed live album, then check out Guns N' Roses "Live Era '87-'93" release. Most of the vocals were re-recorded by Axl in '99! There are also new guitar parts too. According to ex-bassist Duff, the overdubbed were done to stop the album sounding like a bootleg! |
Jjeroen 19.08.2004 06:41 |
Or take the Randy Rhoads Tribute album by Ozzy Osbourne! Recorded in 1980 completely overdubbed (ALL vocals) in 1987. But I understand; this show was the only live-recording of Randy Rhoads. When Randy died Ozz wanted to leave his fans something and this was the only thing that he could give. But if you listen to the original live-recording you hear why the overdubs have been done. Ozz was barking at the moon indeed ;-) |
EddieVanHalen 19.08.2004 06:48 |
Some guitar parts on One Vision were in fact overdubbed on the Live Magic album, for example in the region between 1:42 and 1:46, there's a slight variation in that lick which can't be played live by only 1 human. |
icmrocha (The Man From Planet Marzipan) 19.08.2004 07:36 |
hummm but still... i'm not sure about having that albuns overdubbed..... for example, i have got "It's Late" from Vienna '78 (or Montreal, i'm at work now, can't remember heheheh)... so..... Freddie's voice is on a pretty bad shape on that song... you know... if Queen would EVER gonna release this concert, they would try to overdub it, or not release it at all, because of that... but IMO, it loses all the magic..... simplifying: for me, the concerts with slight mistakes are the best. |
Penis - Vagina 19.08.2004 08:38 |
For big time fans yes, no problem with hearing little 'charming' mistakes or whatever you want to call them. But Queen really seems to promote stuff heavily and aims for a bigger audience so I would imagine they're concerned that some new fan might pick up a live show and get a bad impression of the group. Just a theory. |
RMT Fan 19.08.2004 08:51 |
Or maybe they do overdubs because they are Queen, so no room for any mistakes ;P |
icmrocha (The Man From Planet Marzipan) 19.08.2004 09:02 |
Yeah, i'll take the first theory, EH... maybe they're too concerned that people would think that they were lousy at ther concerts or something hehehe... but couldn't they release just ONE show without overdubs?... I vote for Knebworth... maybe it's WORTH buying it.. (hahaha what a HORRIBLE joke) |
Penis - Vagina 19.08.2004 09:11 |
LOL :) Yes, Knebworth would be a good one to leave alone.. since it's the last it should be a wholly accurate record of the show, right? But sadly they'd probably go the other direction and say that since it's the last, it has to be PERFECT. You can't win :-P |
icmrocha (The Man From Planet Marzipan) 19.08.2004 10:06 |
Someday... hahahahahhaha Well, we (Queen Fans) could open our own record company to make better uncut bootlegs hahahahaha |
Penetration_Guru 19.08.2004 12:27 |
DVDs have multiple audio streams - why not have an "original" stereo warts and all mix, and a shiny 5.1 overdubbed one? |
Queenland 19.08.2004 12:38 |
Yes, just like they did with Coming Soon on The Game DVD-A. The 5.1 mix has the different RT vocals and the stereo mix is the original version. |
The Real Wizard 20.08.2004 01:02 |
artist_nine wrote: I would disagree about Live Magic being clean of overdubs. For example, A Kind Of Magic is clearly taken from the Budapest concert. However, the end bit "will soon be will soon be..." sung by Freddie is overdubbed (or taken from another concert). On the VHS Live in Budapest you can hear Freddie singing the part very low, but on Live Magic Freddie magically gets his voice back and sings much higher. Could anyone confirm this, or am I wrong?Good observation. But what we're hearing is actually Spike and Roger singing the line, and they muted Freddie's vocal track. You hear Freddie's first "will soon be" and then he's gone until the final "will soon be done" on his own, before the big finish. EddieVanHalen wrote: Some guitar parts on One Vision were in fact overdubbed on the Live Magic album, for example in the region between 1:42 and 1:46, there's a slight variation in that lick which can't be played live by only 1 human.I didn't notice anything tricky at this point. Are you sure you have the right time region? If you're talking about 2:39 to 2:40, that's definitely as it happened. It's the tapping part Brian did on just about every night of the tour. |
EddieVanHalen 20.08.2004 05:26 |
Sir GH wrote:I'm not sure about that time region, because I always work with bars and not with actual minutes or seconds.but I'll try to explain it, it is in bar 54, where Brian goes from an F5 chord to a D11 chord over to a D5 chord.The actual overdub is over this bar 54 I'm talking about, so it is over these three chords I mentioned.It should be in between 1:40 and 1:50, but I'd have to check the album to find out the exact time, I shall do so tonight.artist_nine wrote: I would disagree about Live Magic being clean of overdubs. For example, A Kind Of Magic is clearly taken from the Budapest concert. However, the end bit "will soon be will soon be..." sung by Freddie is overdubbed (or taken from another concert). On the VHS Live in Budapest you can hear Freddie singing the part very low, but on Live Magic Freddie magically gets his voice back and sings much higher. Could anyone confirm this, or am I wrong?Good observation. But what we're hearing is actually Spike and Roger singing the line, and they muted Freddie's vocal track. You hear Freddie's first "will soon be" and then he's gone until the final "will soon be done" on his own, before the big finish.EddieVanHalen wrote: Some guitar parts on One Vision were in fact overdubbed on the Live Magic album, for example in the region between 1:42 and 1:46, there's a slight variation in that lick which can't be played live by only 1 human.I didn't notice anything tricky at this point. Are you sure you have the right time region? If you're talking about 2:39 to 2:40, that's definitely as it happened. It's the tapping part Brian did on just about every night of the tour. |
icmrocha (The Man From Planet Marzipan) 20.08.2004 07:18 |
hahahah now... that's complicated for me... :-) i don't play the guitar, i am a drummer hahahah |
EddieVanHalen 20.08.2004 08:53 |
I've listened to the cd, and it's around 1:44 1:45.It's not very noticeable, and if you wouldn't know it was there you probably wouldn't hear it.It's a sort of muted chord sound that you can hear for just a second or so that I'm talking about, amongst guitarists also known as a rasp. It's very hard to explain to someone that doesn't play the guitar. I hope this will be of any help. |
icmrocha (The Man From Planet Marzipan) 20.08.2004 09:07 |
0ne of the things we can be happy about this concert, is that it won't have any video mixed with audio from other concerts, since this is the only gig in MK... :-)... that's a good thing, because what they've done to the Montreal '81 concert was awful... |
Penetration_Guru 20.08.2004 12:44 |
rasp - the sound made by fingers against strings as they slide along the neck. Best example - Every Breath You Take by The Police - listen with headphones. Is that the hard to describe effect you were thinking of? |
EddieVanHalen 20.08.2004 12:58 |
No sorry I made a mistake, the word I was looking for is a rake.It's like playing a chord but not playing it properly, it sounds a bit muted although it's a different technique. Jimi Hendrix used it on Hey Joe in the guitarsolo. |
The Real Wizard 20.08.2004 13:21 |
EddieVanHalen wrote: I've listened to the cd, and it's around 1:44 1:45.It's not very noticeable, and if you wouldn't know it was there you probably wouldn't hear it.It's a sort of muted chord sound that you can hear for just a second or so that I'm talking about, amongst guitarists also known as a rasp. It's very hard to explain to someone that doesn't play the guitar. I hope this will be of any help.I'm a guitarist, and I definitely hear exactly what you're talking about. But what is so humanly impossible about that part, as you mentioned? |
EddieVanHalen 20.08.2004 14:03 |
Sir GH wrote:Impossible to play is maybe a bit exagurated, but I have read this also in a guitar magazine called Guitarist, and they had written an analysis of the song together with some comments from Brian about the structure of the song and it also stated very clearly that there was an overdub on bar 54.EddieVanHalen wrote: I've listened to the cd, and it's around 1:44 1:45.It's not very noticeable, and if you wouldn't know it was there you probably wouldn't hear it.It's a sort of muted chord sound that you can hear for just a second or so that I'm talking about, amongst guitarists also known as a rasp. It's very hard to explain to someone that doesn't play the guitar. I hope this will be of any help.I'm a guitarist, and I definitely hear exactly what you're talking about. But what is so humanly impossible about that part, as you mentioned? |
Adam Baboolal 20.08.2004 22:10 |
You mean the studio version, don't you..? I have that issue of Guitarist. Peace, Adam. |
Penetration_Guru 21.08.2004 20:20 |
rake - also heard on Should I Stay Or Should I Go by The Clash... |
EddieVanHalen 22.08.2004 06:15 |
No I mean the Live Magic version. I'll check for you later this afternoon which guitarist it was in. |
earwig 22.08.2004 15:28 |
Yeah, there is definately an overdub at 1'46". You need to listen on headphones really. To me it sounds like the normal guitar goes from mono into stereo AND with tons more overdrive. The same kind of overdub happens at 2'47" as well. I disagree that it's a rake or sweep pick though! Sounds nothing like either! So many of the songs off Live Magic are assembled from 2 or more gigs though - for example check out Radio GaGa at 3'20" and A Kind Of Magic at 4'55"... |
EddieVanHalen 23.08.2004 10:56 |
It's in the july issue from 1999 of Guitarist magazine. |
Bohardy 24.08.2004 14:04 |
- |
Bohardy 24.08.2004 14:09 |
EddieVanHalen: You'd think with a name like that you'd actually know something about playing the guitar. To say that what Brian plays at around the 1:45 mark in One Vision cannot be played live by only 1 human is staggeringly laughable. At the moment the song reaches 1:45 Brian lightly plays a muted staccato note which sounds like a G, 3rd fret on the bottom E. He immediately unfrets the string and slides his hand up and down the fretboard quickly, and you hear the noise of his left hand sliding against the strings, an effect which you hear much more clearly at the end of the original WWRY solo. I first thought that this was the bit your on about, but I'm not so sure now. If it was, well a 2 year-old could make that noise. Then between 1:46 and 1:48 Brian plays a simple lick that goes like this (click 'edit' to see tab properly): E|----------------|-- B|--6-----6-------|-- G|--5-------5---7-|-- D|------------5-7-|-- A|--------------5-|-- E|----------------|-- How that can be impossible to play live by 1 human is beyond me. You even see Bri playing pretty much that exact riff in the studio during the making of One Vision on Magic Years 1 and GVHII. I will admit that the actual sound of the guitar in the mix seems to change slightly for this lick, but I personally don't think thats a sign of an overdub/bit of editing. What this lick definitely isn't though is two guitars. Absolutely not. The lick that earwig mentions at 2:47 sounds a little more suspect to me. Again, it's easy for 1 guitarist to pull-off, but the sound of that specific riff is noticeably different to the surrounding guitar parts. I have no idea what you can hear at those points in AKOM and RGG earwig that indicates there's been some kind of splice there. There's absolutely nothing at all that stands out to my ears there. |
earwig 24.08.2004 14:14 |
I'd put money on it! Listen on headphones - you probably won't hear it on speakers. The stereo imaging changes as does the overall tone (bass, treble etc). Of course I could stand corrected (said the man in the orthopaedic shoes!!!). |
EddieVanHalen 25.08.2004 06:16 |
Bohardy wrote: EddieVanHalen: You'd think with a name like that you'd actually know something about playing the guitar. To say that what Brian plays at around the 1:45 mark in One Vision cannot be played live by only 1 human is staggeringly laughable. At the moment the song reaches 1:45 Brian lightly plays a muted staccato note which sounds like a G, 3rd fret on the bottom E. He immediately unfrets the string and slides his hand up and down the fretboard quickly, and you hear the noise of his left hand sliding against the strings, an effect which you hear much more clearly at the end of the original WWRY solo. I first thought that this was the bit your on about, but I'm not so sure now. If it was, well a 2 year-old could make that noise. Then between 1:46 and 1:48 Brian plays a simple lick that goes like this (click 'edit' to see tab properly): E|----------------|-- B|--6-----6-------|-- G|--5-------5---7-|-- D|------------5-7-|-- A|--------------5-|-- E|----------------|-- How that can be impossible to play live by 1 human is beyond me. You even see Bri playing pretty much that exact riff in the studio during the making of One Vision on Magic Years 1 and GVHII. I will admit that the actual sound of the guitar in the mix seems to change slightly for this lick, but I personally don't think thats a sign of an overdub/bit of editing. What this lick definitely isn't though is two guitars. Absolutely not. The lick that earwig mentions at 2:47 sounds a little more suspect to me. Again, it's easy for 1 guitarist to pull-off, but the sound of that specific riff is noticeably different to the surrounding guitar parts. I have no idea what you can hear at those points in AKOM and RGG earwig that indicates there's been some kind of splice there. There's absolutely nothing at all that stands out to my ears there.Why do you have to get personal? Since english isn't my native language I find it sometimes hard to explain certain technical guitar things in english. It almost seems like everything one posts at this board as a newbie is bound to be flamed and critisized.Do you rather have me asking stupid questions about if freddie is still alive or something like that? If you listen to one vision with earphones you can hear brian playing a chord over the first chord from bar 54, the f5 chord.there's definetly something going on there. |
earwig 25.08.2004 13:08 |
I still agree with you EVH! This guy who is posting guitar tab to prove a point is just going too far!!! And I also agree that newbies are treated like scum sometimes which isn't nice at all. The minority spoiling it for the majority... |
Adam Baboolal 25.08.2004 14:57 |
Bohardy is another of the long-time postees of this forum. I've never found myself doubting his musical knowledge and just because you hear something different doesn't make you right and Bo, wrong. Bohardy knows what he's talking about. That, I am 100% positive of. Now, after getting a hold of Live Magic, I have to agree with Bo. Trust me, my ears are good! :) Peace, Adam. |
Bohardy 25.08.2004 18:22 |
Cheers for the suport Adam. 'Tis appreciated. EVH: Perhaps my initial comment and the overall tone of my post was a little personal, but some of the things you said in your posts indicated that you did genuinely know about the things mentioned here, and that made me all the more flabbergasted when I actually listened to the part you were on about and realised how wrong you were. I've listened on headphones numerous times to that section (and the other sections mentioned), and don't hear anything impossible to play, only a slight change in the sound of the guitar. As Adam said, I know what I'm talking about, and I'm just trying to help clarify the issue here. Of course I'd rather you talk about these things than ask stupid questions about Freddie, as it's these things I like to talk about. If you did ask stupid questions about Fred I probably wouldn't bother posting in the topic, like I don't in 95% of the drivel that gets posted here. You wrote something that interested me enough to make me respond, so if you have any more things like this to point out in the future, please go right ahead and do so. I'd love to join in the conversation. I don't see how me posting a tab is going too far earwig. What better way is there for me to explain what I'm on about? Namely that what Brian plays there is definitely playable by 1 person. If EVH could perhaps post a tab of what he thinks is played there that it's impossible to do with 1 guitar I might possibly just rethink my position. And no-one's being flamed here just for being a newbie. You can spot the twerps from the people with something decent to say from a mile off here, and to be 'accepted' is quite simple: Just don't be a twat, which neither of you two (EVH and Earwig) appear to be. :) |
EddieVanHalen 25.08.2004 20:51 |
i've listenend to the same part again for like 15 times, and i've also listenend to the left channel and the right channel alone, and I can hear that the guitar in the left channel plays some slightly different note's around that area. You can hear the stereo mix change and then you can also hear that the guitar on the left channel plays something slightly different.I didn't want to critisize you in any way bohardy, i have no hard feelings against you.I still think that the part I mentioned smells a bit funny to say at least, something was done there that wasn't played exactly on the night the gig was recorded.The only way to find out is to listen to a bootleg of that concert to be sure.And by the way I already stated that I exagurated with the not possible to play by only one human sentence.It was just a way to express that I think there was something added in that guitarpart.It's interesting to debate about these kind of things.Anyway I'm looking forward to your response on the left and right channel thing :-) |
earwig 26.08.2004 14:31 |
OK no hard feelings! All I would say is that I'm a professional guitarist myself and have recorded with pro tools etc as well as transcribing and arranging from various recordings and I feel that my ears are very sensitive to such things! I guess we need to agree to disagree... Not to be childish I promise but listen to Strawberry Fields Forever at about 59 seconds (I think) now that is TOTALLY a splice because George Martin freely admits it!!! |
Adam Baboolal 26.08.2004 15:27 |
Done any Queen transcripts, Earwig? If not, could you transcribe the guitars in Let Me Live, please? Thanks! Adam. |
Adam Baboolal 27.08.2004 09:30 |
Is that a no, earwig? Btw, anyone can download and record on Pro Tools. There is a free version after-all. Peace, Adam. |
KevMull 27.08.2004 11:54 |
Anyone know what aspect ratio it'll be in? Isn't it the turn of (common sense) 4:3 (like Wembley 86) I hope so just for a bit of peace and quiet on this forum. I really can't be bothered to participate in yet another (annual!) heated debate on which aspect ratio is best. I'm tired of stating the obvious year in year out! |
earwig 27.08.2004 12:56 |
Hey Adam - I only have a dial up connection and only go online once a day!!! Now if you want the guitar parts transcribed why don't you work them out???!!! It's great for ear training (he says with a wicked laugh!!!). Also you could try link and see if it's there. Yeah hopefully MK DVD will be in original 4:3 ratio like Wembley DVD. It's the same director so fingers crossed! |
Adam Baboolal 27.08.2004 13:27 |
Well, I'm a very very busy guy, which is why I asked you. You said you were a pro, so obviously you must have some idea. Btw, you didn't mention if you'd done any Queen transcriptions or not. You could put us onto your work. Peace, Adam. |
earwig 27.08.2004 13:34 |
Well I'm very busy with my work too! Sorry I can't help and no I haven't specifically done any Brian May transcriptions. I'd like to in the future. Have a look in powertabs. Or try the japanese tab books that sometimes come up on eBay. There may be a book of MiH. Cheers. |
Adam Baboolal 27.08.2004 13:49 |
Got a book. It's not that in-depth. Neither are the tabs I've found on the internet. So... Peace, Adam. |