Martin Packer 14.08.2015 13:52 |
We're told Freddie was getting bored of making Mr Bad Guy towards the end. How would things have gone if he'd canned it and offered the songs to the band? (And I already know Made In Heaven would've been called something else.) :-) |
miraclesteinway 14.08.2015 16:36 |
I sometimes wonder if the Mr Bad Guy album has songs on it that were offered to the band and rejected initially. |
MercurialFreddie 14.08.2015 16:51 |
It was told over and over again that the album suffers mostly from under-producing. If Brian and Roger would agree to rework it and make it sound more modern and not cheesy in places... I'd like to hear that. Some of the tracks from Mr Bad Guy are mine favourites. It's not that bad album. |
Ale Solan 14.08.2015 17:06 |
MercurialFreddie wrote: It was told over and over again that the album suffers mostly from under-producing. If Brian and Roger would agree to rework it and make it sound more modern and not cheesy in places... I'd like to hear that. Some of the tracks from Mr Bad Guy are mine favourites. It's not that bad album.It is that bad. That doesn't mean it couldn't have been better. Definately it could. |
Dim 14.08.2015 17:08 |
The Works could have there must be more to life than this instead of Is this the world... A Kind of Magic could have I was born to love you and Made in Heaven |
luthorn 14.08.2015 17:55 |
MercurialFreddie wrote: It was told over and over again that the album suffers mostly from under-producing. If Brian and Roger would agree to rework it and make it sound more modern and not cheesy in places... I'd like to hear that. Some of the tracks from Mr Bad Guy are mine favourites. It's not that bad album.yup, I wish it was a Queen album in the 1970s heavy rock style. The lyrics are strong. it's the music that lacks the punch. |
The King Of Rhye 14.08.2015 18:19 |
I think a full Queen version of Mr Bad Guy (the song) would have been pretty sweet! |
The Real Wizard 14.08.2015 19:12 |
miraclesteinway wrote: I sometimes wonder if the Mr Bad Guy album has songs on it that were offered to the band and rejected initially.One or two of Roger's songs were rejected, so it's entirely possible. |
matt z 14.08.2015 23:06 |
Wow. I expected a double entendre here. Nevermind. (Rimshot) If the album got canned Freddie would've owed back the advance on the album. Might have hit the studio sooner for financial purposes. ... With Queen, I mean |
master marathon runner 15.08.2015 01:06 |
Always liked the album,it has a great, upbeat, fun feel to it ,tempered with a little heartfelt melancholia. played it to death in the first couple o' years, if Fred got bored, it doesn't come across to my humble ears, he completely delivers. |
Martin Packer 15.08.2015 04:47 |
I like much of the album, too. It just occurred to me that he realised it was missing the other 3's input. Deliberately so, but he might've realised it was Mr Bad Mistake to persist. :-) But pride and ego... :-) Some of the songs are potentially too personal. Mr Bad Guy itself would be one example. A Queen version of Living On My Own could've been interesting. |
matt z 15.08.2015 09:59 |
^ the songs don't all suck. (*such in German) It kinda brings to light the issues with the band. Imagine Freddie if he entirely heard the album as "QUEEN" arrangement but refused it in order to not be stylistically repetitive. Obviously LET'S TURN IT ON has the most QUEEN like elements. .. but they're lessened with cartoon sound effects. Tripled guitar leads etc. Doesn't it sound interesting?.... Methods of SPARING the QUEEN arrangement. Of course if he'd opted for a DIFFERENT PRODUCER who was "hip to the gay shit going on" the album may have sounded differently Instead some songs sound forcibly restrained. TMBMTLTT, MIH, MBG, SBHAC, MMP... etc. Almost the whole album demands others interests in it. It's weak without it. Maybe he wasn't in as much of a demand for "HIS OWN VOICE" as he was for a paycheck and a pride stroke.... cocaine does that. John Deacon would've probably had the most interesting solo album at that point. Just saying. It doesn't venture far and it's hesitant to reaffirm certain QUEENISH bits. Feels like a forced effort in reduction. Although he wrote about 45% of the band's songs ... Tell me which MR BAD GUY songs are UNIQUE to THAT ALBUM? ????? |
brENsKi 15.08.2015 10:27 |
i think there's tracks there and on Strange Frontier that would've helped AKOM a much-improved album |
Bike It 80 15.08.2015 11:26 |
miraclesteinway wrote: I sometimes wonder if the Mr Bad Guy album has songs on it that were offered to the band and rejected initially.According to Georg Purvis' "The Complete Works" book, "TMBMTLTT and MMP were written and recorded for both Hot Space and The Works, but rejected both times." About the other songs, Freddie apparently felt that they "weren't suitable for Queen's sound". |
mooghead 15.08.2015 11:59 |
To flip it... I think that if Mr Bad Guy sold 10 milllion Freddie would have abandoned Queen. |
miraclesteinway 15.08.2015 12:40 |
Yes but it couldn't have sold ten million copies. The synth sounds on the album were dated before it was released, there was no innovative production, and some of the songs were simply not that great. Interesting Matt, that you hear Let's Turn It On as a Queen song because I really don't. Or were you being ironic? Perhaps it's a Hot Space song. I think the vocal on it is outstanding, but the song is rubbish. Made In Heaven is a very Queen-styled song, and history tells us the band agreed. I was born to love you doesn't sound like it should be a Queen song, but when I hear the Queen version it sounds like it should never have been anything but a Queen song. Foolin' Around sounds like a Queen B-side, but also sounds like it was written for a film (in fact, it was used in a film after the fact wasn't it?), and Your Kind Of Lover sounds disconnected from what Queen were doing at that particular time. Mr Bad Guy itself is a pretty awesome song, and I love the orchestral arrangement. In fact I wish that Freddie had gone down that road for the whole album, rather than producing an album of weak synth-pop. I thought that there was a Queen version of Man Made Paradise kicking around, but I could be making that up or have misread something previously. I thought it was supposed to appear on the Works or something and didn't get finished. My Love is Dangerous isn't my favourite song but I expect it could have been improved with a more careful production, There Must Be More To Life Than This sounds exactly like a classic Queen ballad, Living on My Own is actually a strong track but I think it was improved by the remixes of '93 even though I don't listen to dance music. Love Me Like There's No Tomorrow is absolutely Queen, but it's too, well, I don't know what the word is, but it sounds like something that should be played in a cheap cocktail bar with a warm Piña Colada and a cheap fountain in the garden or something. Matt, I think you're right in saying that the songs on Bad Guy are not unique in style when compared to Freddie's Queen songs, but at the same time I think they don't fit what was going on with Queen in the same period. The problem with the album is that it was kind of hurried (despite taking what, 4 years to make?) and slotted in between other projects. The songs seem like good ideas that were never properly finished, and the production and arrangements are frankly rank in places. I think Freddie should have teamed up with a strict producer who would force him into working properly, but he was too out of his head on coke during most of the time he was making the album. He should probably also have sought help from another songwriter too, and collaborated. Mr Bad Guy sounds like the work of a very talented man who believed he was an untouchable genius, and for that reason thought he could do anything - or more accurately - thought that any record he released, regardless of the quality, would be loved and lauded by his adoring public. I don't think that a Queen version of the album would really work, although if they got John Deacon on board to put some good bass in the songs, stripped down the guitars and cut some bits out of the songs, it would probably start to sound more like a Works/Magic type period album. |
MercurialFreddie 15.08.2015 14:35 |
Can't agree more with you, miraclesteinway ! And yes, Foolin' Around was used in the movie Teachers (1984). As to the Man Made Paradise track, it originated as a Queen track and as QueenVault.com states, the demo was played at the 16th International Fan Club Convention in Prestatyn. What is more, a bit of early version of this track can be heard in The Untold Story Documentary. |
Chief Mouse 15.08.2015 14:44 |
Talking about Foolin' Around, I much prefer the remixed version that's on "The Very Best Of Freddie Mercury Solo" CD. Seems to be this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37yNtqWgi4I . |
musicland munich 15.08.2015 14:55 |
matt z wrote: ^ the songs don't all suck. (*such in German)What ? We pronounce it different :) Let's turn it on ? As soon Fred would've started the Demo, John probably gives it a smile on his face... while Bri's face wents more reddish than his Red Special.... |
ANAGRAMER 15.08.2015 15:02 |
To my ears Lets Turn It On has Brain May playing on it, just like Love Kills... |
ANAGRAMER 15.08.2015 15:02 |
Let's make that Brian! |
miraclesteinway 15.08.2015 17:10 |
it possibly does! |
miraclesteinway 15.08.2015 17:17 |
You know, as a piece of concept cabaret, it might have worked. get rid of the synths, strip it back to piano, bass and drums, and it could have a nouveau Kurt Weill feel about it. |
TomP63 15.08.2015 18:39 |
@Miraclesteinway, I find it always a pleasure to read your very thoughtful comments. But one thing I'd like to ask you, why on earth should Freddie team up with another writer for his solo album? It was afterall his solo album, furthermore, I believe that Freddie is a vey capable songwriter and producer. When the album was released I was very impressed with the result, I never had the feeling that the album was out dated or four years too late for it's release. Nowadays the Bad Guy album gives me still very pleasable moments. In mine humble opinion, I don't believe that it is Brian on let's Turn It On, I could be wrong though..... Tom |
TomP63 15.08.2015 18:43 |
Sorry Miraclesteinway, you did not wrote that Freddie should teamed up with another writer, but with a strict producer, sorry I've jumped too early for a conclusion. In that case you're could be right..... Tom |
miraclesteinway 16.08.2015 04:29 |
Hi Tom, Well, I think in some cases it would have been good for Freddie to have worked with another song writer, or producer who also wrote songs. Most producers actually do some song writing, even though it's not their primary earner. What I mean is that for the album to have been a commercial success (which is what Freddie was wanting after all), some of the songs could have actually been more streamlined. OK, in terms of production the songs were stripped down, but in terms of composition, some of them wandered quite a bit. As an album, it also sounds very one-sided because of that pervasive synth pad on it. There's a lot of excellent ideas on it, but it could have been executed better. It does sound like he was deliberately trying not to produce a Queen album, and pushed himself too far in a direction that he didn't have enough experience in for it to work properly. There were numerous producers at that time who could have helped Freddie get the sound that he wanted - or that would have worked better with these songs - or would have made a more commercial success. Freddie though wanted to stay within the realms of his comfort zone. He worked primarily with Mack, and he even demo'd some of the songs with Queen before stripping their parts off - if indeed all of the parts were stripped off. When Freddie got to work on Barcelona, and the songs in 1987 that might have become his second solo album had he not done Barcelona (It's so you, etc), it seemed he'd learned his lesson and that's why he teamed up with Mike Moran for the Great Pretender onwards. Mike Moran is a very slick composer and musician, and has ears like few other people in the business. He's now a lecturer at the Royal College of Music in London - not because he needs the money, but because they want him there. Mike Moran isn't so much a creative genius - in fact he's probably what I would describe as creatively useful, or reliable - but he's a production genius and composition genius. Freddie was a creative genius, but he wasn't very good at reigning himself in which is where Bad Guy falls and Barcelona succeeds. I think Mike Moran allowed Freddie his excess and bombast, but gave it a shape and style that made it work. The thing about Bad Guy that makes it worth listening to is the vocal performance. Freddie's ability to just let go produces some outstanding work on the album, even for its failings. Some of the songs do sound a bit too difficult for Freddie though - Made In Heaven, which is actually a good song, is just set in an awkward key and if you listen very closely, you can hear that his voice is tiring on some of the notes. They're not higher notes than he has sung on any other album, but they seem to be either on a break in his voice (G/A-flat) or the repetition of these notes tires out his folds a little during the recording sessions. |
MercurialFreddie 16.08.2015 04:44 |
My Love is Dangerous could be reworked as a real rocker (Queen version). While we're discussing Let's Turn It On, how come that the bass intro was later incorporated into the Miracle ? |
matt z 16.08.2015 04:52 |
^ sort of. But that's kinda like comparing David Bowie's HEROES with AKOM ... they're very similar. The miracle bit doesn't ever find resolution. But it is curious seeing how they're from the same composer |
TomP63 16.08.2015 05:45 |
Hi Miraclesteinway, again thank you, from your point of view I have never looked at the Bad Guy album. I was always under the impression that Freddie's intention was to make an album just the way he wanted it. No input from other people. Just Mack as he knew what Mack could do for Freddie and the album. That's why I found it so interesting that Brian did play on She Blow's Hot and Cold, but in the end the original version is without Brian. Maybe, just maybe if Freddie had choosen another producer like Mack, as Mack was already involved with Queen and Freddie, could it mean Mr. Bad Guy turned out to be a different album? The one thing I do regret, if you listen to some demo's , for instance LLTNT, with real instruments, I find a pity that Freddie has choose for the synths........ Tom |
tero! 48531 16.08.2015 05:57 |
TomP63 wrote: Maybe, just maybe if Freddie had choosen another producer like Mack, as Mack was already involved with Queen and Freddie, could it mean Mr. Bad Guy turned out to be a different album? The one thing I do regret, if you listen to some demo's , for instance LLTNT, with real instruments, I find a pity that Freddie has choose for the synths........I might be mistaken here, but wasn't the whole point of the solo album to make it sound a bit different from the Queen albums? What would have been the point in making another "Queen" album between Queen albums, from songs already rejected by Queen?? |
TomP63 16.08.2015 06:09 |
Well Tero, that's my point.........in some songs Freddie came very close to the "Queen sound"....... Tom |
miraclesteinway 16.08.2015 06:28 |
Well, of course he was going to come close to the Queen sound since that was his creative environment for 15 years before Bad Guy, but I think the point that is being made is that by the time he decided to record the songs as a solo album, he was trying too hard to make things sound different to Queen. In other words, he was maybe pushing the songs in directions that they weren't naturally able to go in. It's a shame there was so much in-fighting in the band in the run-up to Bad Guy, which seems to have been resolved by the Magic Tour (is that right? were they on speaking terms by the Magic Tour?), because there could have been two or three more Queen albums of very good material in that period. Alas it was not to be. Roger's solo output has always been the strongest, with the exception of Barcelona which I think as a piece of music is amongst the best work that any of them have been involved in. |
Bike It 80 16.08.2015 07:37 |
ANAGRAMER wrote: To my ears Lets Turn It On has Brain May playing on it, just like Love Kills...Apparently, Brian was annoyed by the fact that Paul Vincent's guitar playing on the Mr. Bad Guy album sounded so much like his. I might be wrong but I kinda remember reading somewhere that he said something like "If Freddie wanted so much the guitar sounding like mine, he should've asked me to play instead". |
miraclesteinway 16.08.2015 07:38 |
I think he did say that, regarding some of the tracks on Bad Guy. It's on the Days of Our Lives or Great Pretender documentary. |
oligneisti 16.08.2015 07:49 |
MercurialFreddie wrote: My Love is Dangerous could be reworked as a real rocker (Queen version).I think that is very true. There is a rock version of it somewhere (Great Pretender - Jeff Lord-Alge Mix) but it doesn't quite work. There are some stupid added vocals on it that kind of ruin it for me. |
Mr.QueenFan 16.08.2015 15:58 |
To my taste Mr Bad Guy is a brilliant album. It's more fun to hear than any Queen record in the 80's except for AKOM maybe. I can understand some issues about the production but the songwriting is superb! |
Sebastian 17.08.2015 05:34 |
It's important to consider that, had 'Made in Heaven' and 'I Was Born to Love You' been recorded for 'The Works' or 'A Kind of Magic', they wouldn't have sounded like the 1995 versions we all know. Roger, John and Brian had three years to work on those tracks, had better technology and the pressure to release something more quickly was off. Under those conditions, they could've probably made 'Body Language' and 'Delilah' sound great. |
The King Of Rhye 17.08.2015 06:39 |
Bike It 80 wrote: Apparently, Brian was annoyed by the fact that Paul Vincent's guitar playing on the Mr. Bad Guy album sounded so much like his. I might be wrong but I kinda remember reading somewhere that he said something like "If Freddie wanted so much the guitar sounding like mine, he should've asked me to play instead".There's a song that was used as a b-side, She Blows Hot And Cold....Freddie recorded a version of it with Brian on guitar so that Paul Vincent would have something to copy (it's on the FM box set) |
Ale Solan 17.08.2015 16:40 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote: To my taste Mr Bad Guy is a brilliant album.You must be the only person in the world who likes this album (?) |
Day dop 17.08.2015 16:50 |
Ale Solan wrote:Mr.QueenFan wrote: To my taste Mr Bad Guy is a brilliant album.You must be the only person in the world who likes this album (?) Lousy production, but it's got some catchy tunes on it. Freddie's voice was top notch on that album too. |
Mr.QueenFan 17.08.2015 17:42 |
Ale Solan wrote:After reading Queenzone i'm beginning to think i am, and that doesn't make sense to me, but as Humans it's good to have diferent tastes.Mr.QueenFan wrote: To my taste Mr Bad Guy is a brilliant album.You must be the only person in the world who likes this album (?) When i first heard Mr. Bad Guy i didn't care about production, i was only interested in hearing my favorite singer. I loved the fact that the album isn't over produced, and it clicks with me. What Brian, John and Roger did with the MIH track and IWBTLY was superb, but they didn't replaced the originals. I still love the originals because of their simplicity, and in the case of IWBTLY i still think Freddie nailed the perfect version of it - pure Pop genius! For me the best thing in music is Freddie with a piano, and Mr Bad Guy has plenty in it to make me happy. When i hear songs like "LMLTNT" i'm in heaven. The way Freddie played the piano, his choice of chords and notes, and the voice is simply superb. I absolutely love this record - there's not one song that i deslike! |
Martin Packer 18.08.2015 02:50 |
What MrQueenFan said. I'd add that the simpler arrangements suit Freddie better. The "mock orchestra" "demon chords" stuff could have been done better - perhaps with help from the other three. (I'm really please the way this thread - which I started - has turned out.) |
miraclesteinway 18.08.2015 08:36 |
I think Freddie did suit simple arrangements. I love to hear him on things like 'You Take My Breath Away' or 'Is this the world we created?' The saving grace on Bad Guy is Freddie's voice, and yes there are good songs on it. I'd have liked to have heard Freddie sing in his lower range more often, you know strip the sound down and strip some of the bombast out of the voice - his vocal on slightly mad for instance, is beautiful, and on Ensueño he proves that he had a beautiful baritone capacity. I think though, he felt that it was his trademark to sing in the highest registers. He complained to Brian that Brian always wrote in a range that was just a bit too high, but actually, Let's Turn It On reaches up to higher than anything Brian wrote for him! |
Mr.QueenFan 19.08.2015 18:33 |
miraclesteinway wrote: (...) I'd have liked to have heard Freddie sing in his lower range more often, you know strip the sound down and strip some of the bombast out of the voice - his vocal on slightly mad for instance, is beautiful, and on Ensueño he proves that he had a beautiful baritone capacity. I think though, he felt that it was his trademark to sing in the highest registers. He complained to Brian that Brian always wrote in a range that was just a bit too high, but actually, Let's Turn It On reaches up to higher than anything Brian wrote for him! .Indeed, and the funny thing is that - if my memory is correct - it was Montserrat Caballe who made Freddie sing in that register on Ensueno. She also liked that register of Freddie. |
Mr.QueenFan 19.08.2015 18:40 |
Martin Packer wrote: We're told Freddie was getting bored of making Mr Bad Guy towards the end. How would things have gone if he'd canned it and offered the songs to the band? (And I already know Made In Heaven would've been called something else.) :-)Just to clarify one small detail. I don't think Freddie was bored of making Mr Bad Guy. He was exausted because he was working with Queen in between both projects. Just listen to the first minute or so of this 1985 interview where Freddie explains it: link By the way, what would "Made in Heaven" be called? |
Day dop 19.08.2015 19:12 |
Mr.QueenFan wrote:I enjoyed listening to that interview. Thanks for posting it Mr.QueenFan.Martin Packer wrote: We're told Freddie was getting bored of making Mr Bad Guy towards the end. How would things have gone if he'd canned it and offered the songs to the band? (And I already know Made In Heaven would've been called something else.) :-)Just to clarify one small detail. I don't think Freddie was bored of making Mr Bad Guy. He was exausted because he was working with Queen in between both projects. Just listen to the first minute or so of this 1985 interview where Freddie explains it: link By the way, what would "Made in Heaven" be called? Freddie liked the word "ingredients". |
cmsdrums 22.08.2015 10:14 |
I've always found 'Let's Turn It On' to be a similar type track to 'Party' - the feel, and the verse harmonies come from the same stable. I agree with the previous post about Freddie setting 'Made In Heaven' in a ludicrous key so that he is struggling throughout a lot of it (particularly the 'that's what everybody says...' sections). As with most comments here, the production and sound of the album is the weakest point - not very good drum machines and dated synths really don't help. The fact that some of the guitar solos are purposely imitating Brian really is poor too. |
Chief Mouse 22.08.2015 10:25 |
To be honest, I quite like when Freddie sounds a bit strained. Sounds more powerful to me. It depends on the song and the way he sings though. So I like his performance on Made In Heaven or One Year Of Love. Of course, it doesn't sound too pleasing when his voice is shot or just going out, but that probably never happened to him all that often in a studio setting anyway. |