| Holly2003 29.07.2015 09:22 |
The back cover of SHA looks like it's been scored with a blade and it occurred to me this predates similar images adopted during the punk era in the UK. Since we know the song SHA dates back to around 1974 and it has a punk sound (and the lyrics may be a critique of punk music)* I wonder could it be said that Roger or Queen predicted the movement or at least tapped into it before it became popular? It's possible maybe even to make a case for Modern Times Rock 'n' Roll being a proto punk/thrash song *I think Fight From the Inside is also a critique of punk. |
| Sebastian 29.07.2015 10:06 |
I agree about 'Modern Times Rock 'n' Roll.' |
| oligneisti 29.07.2015 11:09 |
I think Roger was likely the member most enthusiastic about punk. Modern Times R&R is probably more about glam rock than anything else. |
| dysan 29.07.2015 11:51 |
MTRNR seems to be Taylor having a crack at rewriting Bowie's Spiders From Mars set opener from 72/73 'Hang Onto Yourself'. Certainly the more uptempo live version that he would've seen a few times early on. |
| mooghead 29.07.2015 13:58 |
Punk was shit. I hate everything about it. Johnny Rotten is the luckiest man who has ever made a living out of music. |
| Rick 29.07.2015 14:09 |
mooghead wrote: Punk was shit. I hate everything about it. Johnny Rotten is the luckiest man who has veer made a living out of music.What about The Ramones? These guys were great! Also, Ultravox had a punk period, with John Foxx. Very interesting period for the band. |
| Holly2003 29.07.2015 14:28 |
oligneisti wrote: I think Roger was likely the member most enthusiastic about punk. Modern Times R&R is probably more about glam rock than anything else.I was thinking more how it sounds rather than the lyrics. You're probably right about the lyrics being about glam though. Based on the lyrics to SHA and Fight from the Inside, Roger's attitude to punk seems hostile rather than enthusiastic. |
| Sebastian 29.07.2015 15:58 |
Far as I know, he didn't like The Clash and that sort of thing. I doubt anyone in the band was actually a punk fan, although classing Queen as a punk band would've been way more accurate than the usual label they're given as an opera/rock band (the 'rock' part is spot on, the 'opera' one is not). |
| mooghead 29.07.2015 16:18 |
"What about The Ramones?" Were they? I have seen them on t-shirts... their biggest hit was so punk..... |
| The King Of Rhye 29.07.2015 22:26 |
mooghead wrote: "What about The Ramones?" Were they? I have seen them on t-shirts... their biggest hit was so punk.....Were they what? Were they punk? Uh, yeah....that's almost like asking if Black Sabbath was metal.... |
| The King Of Rhye 29.07.2015 22:33 |
One thought about SHA, though...someone mentioned it on facebook, and I never thought of it before, but I'll be damned if that's not a Beatles reference in the lyrics! I Saw Her Standing There: "Well she was just seventeen/And you know what I mean" Sheer Heart Attack: "Well you're just 17 and all you wanna do is disappear/You know what I mean there's a lot of space between your ears" |
| tomchristie22 29.07.2015 23:55 |
dysan wrote: MTRNR seems to be Taylor having a crack at rewriting Bowie's Spiders From Mars set opener from 72/73 'Hang Onto Yourself'. Certainly the more uptempo live version that he would've seen a few times early on.For sure - the intro of Modern Times especially sounds like the intro of Hang Onto Yourself reworked into a minor key. Both utilised chugging on fifth-heavy 'power' chords in the pre-punk era. |
| Estranged 30.07.2015 01:59 |
The Damned were awesome, as were the Dead Boys. Definitive statements like "punk was shit" are stupid. |
| Queenfred 30.07.2015 03:29 |
The Saints were awesome too. An Australian band who released the first punk-rock single "Stranded" (pre-dating the Sex Pistols). |
| master marathon runner 30.07.2015 10:50 |
Punk was largely Shiite, those that were any good sold out and virtually went mainstream. Johnny Rotten advertising butter indeed. A far cry. |
| mooghead 30.07.2015 14:58 |
"Definitive statements like "punk was shit" are stupid. " Sorry.. punk was shit... IMHO |
| master marathon runner 30.07.2015 18:21 |
"What you rebelling against Johnny?" "What you got?" This dialogue from Brando's "The Wild One" just about sums punk up for me. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 30.07.2015 21:44 |
Nevermind the bollocks is one of the greatest albums of the history. Roger Taylor likes a lot that album, and also he likes The Clash and The Ramones. Said by himself. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 30.07.2015 21:49 |
link |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 30.07.2015 21:56 |
About The Clash, he doesn't like the politic lyrics, that is a little ironic because Roger was the politic member of Queen... |
| cmsdrums 31.07.2015 02:46 |
Apocalipsis_Darko wrote: Nevermind the bollocks is one of the greatest albums of the history. Roger Taylor likes a lot that album, and also he likes The Clash and The Ramones. Said by himself.The Clash weren't exclusively a punk though, there was lot more breadth to them later on. That would be like labelling Queen a synth disco pop band after only listening to Hot Space. 'Punk' in the sense that it is being referred to here wasn't really a musical genre however, but was an 'ethos' or 'movement' (certainly in the few niche places it took off in the UK) - it just so happened that Malcolm McLaren and a few others marketed the public disaffections of the time and put them into a band, and others centred the 'punk' feel around art, fashion, politics etc... If we're just talking about loud and angry music, the Who's 'My Generation' was every ounce 'punk' a dozen years before The Sex Pistols etc.. came to prominence. it's the same in every single musical genre you can think of, in that there are a few innovators and generally musically adept and genuine artists, and then the record companies and bands jump on the bandwagon and create a shedload of copycat acts that are a pale imitation. In the case of 'punk', the original acts that were lauded and got a lot of press were, with only a couple of exceptions, generally pretty crap and so the watered down copycats after were even worse! The only bands that started with a punk ethos and mindset that really became successful and interesting from a musical point of view were the ones that broadened their horizons outside of the original 'three chords and shouting and spitting' format such as Blondie, Talking Heads, The Clash etc... |
| Vocal harmony 31.07.2015 06:21 |
The idea that Sheer Heart Attack pre dates punk because it was written at the time of album of the same name isn't quite true. The dry sounding production (compared to previous albums) added to the overall "punk" sound of the song as did the tempo and guitar sound. It would also be interesting to hear how Roger intended the song to sound in 1974, tempo, sound and possible lyrical differences would all make a difference to how the listener perceived the song. Yes the song/album came out during the time the media was aware of the punk movement in the UK. But I think it was Queen reflecting what was happening around them rather than leading the charge. They repeated the exercise with their venture into disco, almost sounding like, to some die hard fans, that they had invented that too! |
| Sebastian 31.07.2015 11:24 |
Vocal harmony wrote: They repeated the exercise with their venture into disco, almost sounding like, to some die hard fans, that they had invented that too!Well, according to Brian, without 'Hot Space' there would've been no 'Thriller.' And you know the doctor's always right :p |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 31.07.2015 21:18 |
The Clash had the reggae influences, well, the punk in general, in the beginning. It was very casual, because the dj's from Jamaica didn't have enough punk singles, and finally played reggea and dub music. Even Bauhaus, a "goth" band, wrote some disco/funk music. About Hot Space and Thriller...hehehe. I never seen the connection! |
| pittrek 01.08.2015 07:06 |
I always loved the Sex Pistols (their first album + some songs from the later albums, not their life styles), Clash (their music, not their political views), The Damned (again just the music), Buzzcocks, Dead Kennedys, Ramones ... As I think about it I would say I love punk MUSIC, not the punks themselves :-) But I never understood why so many people consider SHA or Modern Times r'n'r punk. |
| Day dop 02.08.2015 04:53 |
I'm glad for the punk movement, and for some of the bands, The Sex Pistols and The Ramones being the obvious two - and those that were largely influenced by punk, especially late 80's/90's groups - Sleater-Kinney, Nirvana, Sonic Youth etc. The world of music would've been a less colourful place without it. |
| The Real Wizard 02.08.2015 10:09 |
Vocal harmony wrote: Yes the song/album came out during the time the media was aware of the punk movement in the UK. But I think it was Queen reflecting what was happening around them rather than leading the charge.Ding. |
| Apocalipsis_Darko 02.08.2015 17:41 |
I love punk rock, I can listen X (the band from Los Angeles) and the next cd Miles Davis without problem. |
| Holly2003 03.08.2015 02:24 |
Vocal harmony wrote: The idea that Sheer Heart Attack pre dates punk because it was written at the time of album of the same name isn't quite true. The dry sounding production (compared to previous albums) added to the overall "punk" sound of the song as did the tempo and guitar sound. It would also be interesting to hear how Roger intended the song to sound in 1974, tempo, sound and possible lyrical differences would all make a difference to how the listener perceived the song. Yes the song/album came out during the time the media was aware of the punk movement in the UK. But I think it was Queen reflecting what was happening around them rather than leading the charge. They repeated the exercise with their venture into disco, almost sounding like, to some die hard fans, that they had invented that too!Of course we'll never know until an original demo from 1974 appears, if it even exists at all. I am speculating based on the evidence currently available -- a scored/ruined album back cover* which is similar to designs punks would later use and the possibility that the song SHA was 'punk-like' from its conception (which may be why it wasn't released back in 74-75). The comparison with Hot Space isn't like for like as funk had been around for decades and disco for years when HS was released. Here I'm talking about Roger possibly being ahead of the game, or at least the possibility of him being influenced by proto punk stuff in the early 1970s. * no idea who came up with the "scored" design, but I'm struggling to think of any other hard rock bands who did this back in 1974. Maybe it was a minor tribute to Hendrix setting fire to his guitar, or Pete Townshend destroying his guitar as a tribute to Gustav Metzger performance art. |
| Rick 03.08.2015 06:05 |
link 14 songs in 26 minutes. That's a quality, too ;) |
| Vocal harmony 03.08.2015 07:36 |
Holly2003 wrote:[/ * no idea who came up with the "scored" design, but I'm struggling to think of any other hard rock bands who did this back in 1974. Maybe it was a minor tribute to Hendrix setting fire to his guitar, or Pete Townshend destroying his guitar as a tribute to Gustav Metzger performance art.Good point about the album cover, although does it indicate a possible punk direction. The bands outfits certainly don't. Status Quo Live had a cover made up of a ripped picture, admitadly after Sheer Heart Attack, but it could be argued that there was a punk influence there, though their music certainly didn't show it. |
| Vocal harmony 03.08.2015 07:51 |
Sebastian wrote:Well, according to Brian, without 'Hot Space' there would've been no 'Thriller.' And you know the doctor's always right :p :)) in BM's defence Beat It may have been influenced by Queen in as much as it used a rock style riff and solo on a funk/dance track. But in saying that Rick James had already done that, especially live, and even the Stones investigated a funk path in the 70's so maybe one of those could have been an influence on Jackson and even Queen! |
| Sebastian 03.08.2015 08:01 |
Vocal harmony wrote: :)) in BM's defence Beat It may have been influenced by Queen in as much as it used a rock style riff and solo on a funk/dance track./Said influence could've come from quite a few different places besides Queen. And if it did come (at least partially) from Queen, it's far more likely to have come from 'The Game' rather than 'Hot Space.' But anyway, Michael (who knew more about what influenced Michael than anybody else) claimed he was commissioned the song when Quincy specifically asked for a track influenced by The Knacks. Not Queen, The Knacks. And that happened, by the way, before the release of 'Hot Space' anyway. Moreover, 88.89% of the album is not 'Beat It.' |
| The King Of Rhye 03.08.2015 08:19 |
Sebastian wrote:I don't know how much they influenced Michael in particular, but Parliament/Funkadelic did that sort of thing quite well before Queen ever got funky ;)Vocal harmony wrote: :)) in BM's defence Beat It may have been influenced by Queen in as much as it used a rock style riff and solo on a funk/dance track./Said influence could've come from quite a few different places besides Queen. Actually maybe they did influence him, just saw that the Jackson 5 covered a Funkadelic song.... |
| Vocal harmony 03.08.2015 08:53 |
^^^^ I think the second paragraph of my last post kind of explained why there maybe wasn't a Queen influence in Jacksons album. |
| cmsdrums 03.08.2015 08:59 |
I'd say that Roger's version of 'I Wanna Testify' is probably the earliest example of anything funky/souly in the Queen related world? And 'Turn On The TV', whilst having a very Led Zep like chorus, also has fairly funky oriented stuff versewise. |
| Bike It 80 05.08.2015 09:44 |
Holly2003 wrote: * no idea who came up with the "scored" design, but I'm struggling to think of any other hard rock bands who did this back in 1974. Maybe it was a minor tribute to Hendrix setting fire to his guitar, or Pete Townshend destroying his guitar as a tribute to Gustav Metzger performance art.The Who "Odds & Sods" was released in 1974 and had a similar cover, where the picture is ripped up. |
| pittrek 07.08.2015 12:43 |
Apocalipsis_Darko wrote: I love punk rock, I can listen X (the band from Los Angeles) and the next cd Miles Davis without problem.Lol, I remember the times when I used to listen to Never Mind The Bollocks followed by Eine Kleine Nachtmusik. Everybody thought it's weird, but for me it was the best relax :-) |