| YourValentine 16.05.2009 10:05 |
Years ago the song leaked to the public as a demo sung by Roger Taylor but now we see that it was actually written by Cross member Clayton Moss who included it in his recently released 7digital album. So, the demo was obviously not a Strange Frontier outtake as many of us believed. http://indiestore.7digital.com/claytonmoss/albums/ |
| Sebastian 16.05.2009 10:40 |
Thank you, Barb, it was very interesting. Further evidence in favour of 'don't believe all you read in the net'. |
| Pim Derks 16.05.2009 14:23 |
Nice to finally have some confirmation on this. I still don't really believe that 'Celebration' was a Strange Frontier track either. |
| Pim Derks 16.05.2009 14:27 |
Boy oh boy... I've heard some bad stuff - but the samples from Clayton's album are way up there... It's kinda sad that almost 20 years later he's releasing an album titled 'The Cross Section'. It's not like The Cross had a huuuuge following which will buy this album. But at least it's kept him off the streets for a couple of days. |
| last-horizon 42265 16.05.2009 20:24 |
link |
| YourValentine 17.05.2009 03:36 |
Thanks for the link, so it's rather old news :-) I asked Josh Macrae on facebook about "Celebration" a while ago and he said it's a Cross song, the idea came initially from Peter Noone. |
| Pim Derks 17.05.2009 07:29 |
I wonder why John S. Stuart kept insisting that Celebration was on a Strange Frontier acetate then...? |
| Negative Creep 17.05.2009 08:22 |
Pim Derks wrote: I wonder why John S. Stuart kept insisting that Celebration was on a Strange Frontier acetate then...? Very interesting!! |
| YourValentine 17.05.2009 09:55 |
I don't remember that he said "acetate". Probably he has a demo tape that he bought and that was labelled as SF sessions. I have a "SF session" folder on my ancient first hard drive that contained both "Celebration" and "Can't Get You Out Of My Head", so who confused what is everyone's guess. |
| last-horizon 42265 17.05.2009 12:12 |
link |
| John S Stuart 17.05.2009 12:40 |
Pim Derks wrote: I wonder why John S. Stuart kept insisting that Celebration was on a Strange Frontier acetate then...? Good spot Barbara. I just downloaded the 'Moss Cross album', and for me too, this creates more questions than answers, but here is all the information I have at hand. I would be very interested in reading any other thoughts or opinions. (Are you there Clayton?). First: Here is the track listing from “Strange Frontier” acetates purchased around 1986. (That’s two years before the debut 1986 Cross album – and two years after the 1984 release of “Strange Frontier”): Although the tracks below are conveniently listed in the same running order as the official LP, the actual banding (track order) is different, (I will have to play the disc to recall the acetate running order) and while some tracks are identical to the released version, other tracks like - “Strange Frontier” have alternative mixes – which I have not found elsewhere. Roger Taylor: Strange Frontier (From the released LP sleeve notes) Abandon Fire composed by Roger Taylor & David Richards It's An Illusion composed by Roger Taylor & Rick Parfitt Racing In The Streets composed by Bruce Springsteen Masters Of War composed by Bob Dylan John Deacon & Rick Parfitt on It's An Illusion - Freddie Mercury on Killing Time Strange Frontier Acetate Studio Master 4:07 Mix Unreleased: Home Mini Disc Beautiful Dreams Acetate Studio Master 4:16 Mix Unreleased: Home Mini Disc Man On Fire (Edited by JSS: NOT on acetate) Racing In The Street Acetate Studio Master 4:17 Mix Unreleased: Home Mini Disc Masters Of War Acetate Studio Master 3:40 Mix Unreleased: Home Mini Disc Killing Time (Edited by JSS: NOT on acetate) Abandon Fire (Edited by JSS: NOT on acetate) Young Love Acetate Studio Master 3:16 Mix Unreleased: Home Mini Disc It's An Illusion Acetate Studio Master 4:00 Mix Unreleased: Home Mini Disc I Cry For You Acetate Studio Master 4:06 Mix Unreleased: Home Mini Disc Two Sharp Pencils Acetate Studio Master 3:19 Mix Unreleased: Home Mini-Disc Acetate Studio Master Fast 2:52 Mix Unreleased: Home Mini Disc Keep On Running Acetate Studio Master 2:58 Unreleased: Home Mini Disc I Want To Take You Higher Acetate Studio Master 3:19 Unreleased: Home Mini Disc Celebration Acetate Studio Master 5:11 Unreleased: Home Mini Disc I Can't Get You Out Of My Head Acetate Studio Master 3:36 Unreleased: Home Mini Disc I Can Take You Higher Acetate Studio Master (“40 End Edit) Unreleased: Home Mini Disc We know two tracks on the album were cover versions: Bruce Springsteen's "Racing In The Streets", and Bob Dylan's "Masters of War", while another cover, Spencer Davis' "Keep On Running" was also recorded, but not released. Why then, is it unlikely that further cover/collaborative material could have been worked on? I honestly do not know who wrote "I Can’t Get You Out Of My Head", “I Can Take You Higher” or "Celebration", therefore, I have never argued that they were original Roger Taylor compositions. All I have argued is that versions exist from the 1984 “Strange Frontier” sessions, and we all have the (demo) evidence to support this. The fact in itself that they were not written by Roger (as we have already seen) does not demonstrate versions of these tracks were not kicking around earlier – or that they were not ‘conceived’ during the time of the "Strange Frontier" sessions. So for me the real question is not who - but when they were originally recorded? Second: After listening to the ‘demo’ version against the ‘downloaded', version – they do sound like two different takes – if not completely different tracks. So, which came first? Are these downloads 'genuine' Cross demos – as ‘covered’ by Roger Taylor – or are these downloads ‘modern Moss remixes’ (or remakes) even if based on original tapes? Certainly the Roger Taylor versions sound more ‘demoish’, and the downloads more contemporary, but this may be due to to the download's better/higher sound quality - rather than age. The truth is - I do not know. Perhaps “I Can’t Get You Out Of My Head” is one of those crossover songs. (i.e: late Roger Taylor – but early Cross). The same can be said of “Killing Time”, and “Heaven For Everyone” which (as we all know were Roger Taylor/Queen crossovers). Nevertheless, The fact remains, a version of this track was available a full two years before any release - and that is as much a mystery to me as it is to everyone else. Finally: This is the first time I have heard a studio (rather than live) version of "Let's Get Drunk', and I think the first non-Roger vocals of "Penetration Guru". They are nice to compare against the released versions - but are we sure these are genuine demos - rather than Clayton Moss covers or make-overs? |
| YourValentine 17.05.2009 13:21 |
Okay - this gets more and more mysterious. I'll send Clayton Moss a link to this thread, maybe he can shed some light on it. He did not claim to have written "Can't Get...." - there are no writer credits on the 7digital site, I only assumed it because he wrote Penetration Guru, Better Things and Ain't Put Nothing Down - the 3 Cross songs on the new album. I think that the songs on "Cross Sections" are new takes, it's a very recent album. |
| Pim Derks 17.05.2009 14:42 |
Maybe it's better to edit out my comments on his songs before sending him this link if we want him to react :D |
| John S Stuart 17.05.2009 15:37 |
Strange Frontier (2 x one-sided acetates) No sleeve notes or markings other than "Roger Taylor" written by hand (not his). Strange Frontier Beautiful Dreams It's An Illusion Racing In The Streets Master's Of War I Cry For You I Want To Take You Higher Keep On Running Two Sharp Pencils Young Love I Can Take You Higher (edit) Celebration I Can't Get You Out Of My Head Two Sharp Pencils (Fast Version) Just noticed: 'Man On Fire', 'Killing Time' and 'Abandon Fire' are all missing from this set - yet, 'I Want To Take You Higher', 'Keep On Running', 'Two Sharp Pencils', 'Celebration', 'I Can't Get You Out Of My Head', and 'I Can Take You Higher' are all on the second disc. (Edited above accordingly). Don't ask me how - it just is. I always presumed they were twin discs. Perhaps they are not. Remember, I too would like to know for a certainty. Perhaps one acetate really is a Roger Taylor solo disc - and the other acetate is of the Cross, but then again, why would 'Keep On Running' and 'Two Sharp Pencils' appear on a Cross disc? To compound all this, somewhere in between the two discs, Roger Taylor cut his 'Olympic Theme'. It just seems the waters get murkier and murkier... |
| inu-liger 18.05.2009 03:52 |
John, I want to ask you, that YouTube video linked here a while ago which purports to have a 2 minute-ish clip of Roger's Olympic Theme, do you know if that's the real deal or not?? |
| Queenrockyou 18.05.2009 08:56 |
I was wondering if there would be an official physical release of those songs, do someone know ? Or YourValentine, can you send the question too to Clayton Moss? Regards, Olivier, Belgium. |
| RMT Fan 18.05.2009 10:22 |
Yes, the physical CD of The Cross Section will be released soon - Clayton told me. As to those songs Celebration and I Can't Get... - as I can remember, those were commented on youtube by Clayton (fishpigg) as Cross songs and I think he also told his guitars are in I Can't Get demo and that's his song. |
| RMT Fan 18.05.2009 10:31 |
Hi, it's Actually a Rare Song by The Cross Written by Clayton Moss a demo version from the Jam studio sessions. cited from: link (Fishpigg) Fishpigg This is a Cross song ,probably from the Jam recording sessions ,Peter Noone on outro vocal ,the main writer was Spike Edney , cited from: link |
| Penetration_Guru 19.05.2009 18:07 |
A theory: RT wrote it for SF, then took it off and replaced it with something else. Later, it was considered for his next solo album, which became Shove It, but was initially recorded as a solo album. It was then in the "pool" of songs considered for MBADTK, at which point its origin became muddled (in Clayton's mind, at least). Now, he has recalled it and recorded it. |
| Negative Creep 19.05.2009 18:24 |
Penetration_Guru wrote: A theory: RT wrote it for SF, then took it off and replaced it with something else. Later, it was considered for his next solo album, which became Shove It, but was initially recorded as a solo album. It was then in the "pool" of songs considered for MBADTK, at which point its origin became muddled (in Clayton's mind, at least). Now, he has recalled it and recorded it. Chances of him forgetting whether the song was his or not are fairly slim. And that theory could only work if the version on youtube was a completely different take to what it supposed to be on the so called S.F. acetate. Sonically it sounds closer to The Cross than S.F. - ditto Take You Higher. |
| Adam Unger (QueenVault.com) 04.09.2012 10:28 |
Nothing like bringing up a 3 year old post... Quick question for John, if he is available. "other tracks like - “Strange Frontier” have alternative mixes – which I have not found elsewhere." Are all of the tracks an alternative mix or are there just a select few? |
| cmsdrums 06.09.2012 15:34 |
I wonder if we may get some of these alternative mixes, along with other as yet unreleased tracks, on the RT 'best of' when it finally appears? |