| Richy Mercury 17.08.2007 13:45 |
Lets start a discussion on the merits of both albums. I'm at the office now so I can't really say much. BTTLL=Back to the Light MBG=Mr.Bad Guy Production - BTTL wins Songs - MBG wins Album Cover - MBG (Our Freddie is so handsome at age 38) Guitars - BTTL Comments: MBG sounds so cheaply produced. I think it sold only 200,000 copies. Does anybody know the production numbers of the CD? I have one of the originals on CBS. I had a still-sealed vinyl record which I lost when I moved. Also, I have an original cassette. |
| Sebastian 17.08.2007 14:45 |
I think BBTL's better than, not only 'Bad Guy', but also any Queen album. |
| FriedChicken 17.08.2007 14:53 |
I agree with Sebastian, I think Another World has some songs which are the best ones Brian has ever written. But for some reason it doesn't sound like a real album. It sounds more like a complilation of songs. But especially stuff like Wilderness and Business are great |
| AlexRocks 17.08.2007 14:58 |
The problem with "Back To The Light" is that that is EXACTLY the type of album Queen should be making NOW! Lol! I DEFINETLY think that "Mr Bad Guy" is a great studio l.p. even with it's spotty production and some times dated synthesizers which I actually LOVE in moderation at times. Otherwise "Back To The Light" is as good as a Queen l.p. as far as I'm concerned! All I know is that Brian May better get to work on doing some more solo l.p.s amongst some new Queen ones ever so often for sure! Sorry Mr. May but we're gonna have to lay claim to you and make you dance for the rest of your life! Lol! |
| ok.computer 17.08.2007 16:18 |
Did we get enough exclamation marks in there? |
| The Fairy King 17.08.2007 16:57 |
BTTL>MBG, but Barcelona>BTTL ;) |
| Tero 17.08.2007 17:07 |
Sebastian wrote: I think BBTL's better than, not only 'Bad Guy', but also any Queen album.Let me get this straight... You think that BTTL is better than ANY Queen album? Better than all fifteen of them? The same BTTL with the lyrics that makes some of the other BM masterpieces like Put Out the Fire or Sweet Lady sound like classical poetry? The same BTTL which has about as many interesting production innovations as The Night Comes Down? The same BTTL which has vocals that are just about as good as a Queen song like Football Fight? I don't hate the album at all. I think there was potential in some of the songs (about four of them), but it was wasted on an album that sounded like a collection of demos. I don't know which is more worrying... The fact that this album was released as it is, or the fact that some people would see this as the peak of Brian's talents. If this REALLY is as much as the average Queen fan expects from the forthcoming QPR album, and the band would really try to pass this kind of material as a Queen(+Paul Rodgers) album, I would never buy another Queen product in my entire life. I hope I didn't sound too harsh? :P |
| Sebastian 17.08.2007 17:54 |
> You think that BTTL is better than ANY Queen album? Better than all fifteen of them? Indeed. > The same BTTL with the lyrics that makes some of the other BM masterpieces like Put Out the Fire or Sweet Lady sound like classical poetry? Let's see: 'Intro' - Nothing special, but not bad lyrics 'Back To The Light' - Good lyrics 'Love Token' - Nice 'Resurrection' - Nice 'Too Much Love' - Beautiful 'Driven By You' - Nice, albeit somewhat shallow 'Nothin' But Blue' - Poor lyrics 'I'm Scared' - Nothing special, but not bad 'Let Your Heart' - Good lyrics 'Just One Life' - Good lyrics 'Rollin' Over' - Nothing special, but not bad* * I know those aren't his lyrics, but it's still included. So, it's not precisely Shakespeare, but considering that most Queen albums have three or four songs with really poor lyrics and 'Back To The Light' has only one, I take BTTL anytime. > The same BTTL which has about as many interesting production innovations as The Night Comes Down? No Queen album has production innovations for that matter, which doesn't change that most of them are brill. > The same BTTL which has vocals that are just about as good as a Queen song like Football Fight? 'Dark' has nice vocals IMO. The ballads in general have a wonderful by Dr May, and his hoarse delivery on both 'Love Token' and 'Resurrection' is marvellous. He's not as good singer as Freddie or Roger, but he's still a very good one. > or the fact that some people would see this as the peak of Brian's talents. Not only his, but the cast is extraordinary, and both Neil and Cozy outdo John and Roger any time. |
| PieterMC 17.08.2007 19:37 |
Sebastian wrote: > You think that BTTL is better than ANY Queen album? Better than all fifteen of them? Indeed.You are joking? Right? BTTL has some good songs, but some pretty crappy songs too. |
| Adolfo and the spiders from Mercury 17.08.2007 20:18 |
MBG I think is not well produced |
| Boy Thomas Raker 17.08.2007 20:47 |
A nice album, scattered, but to compare it to any of the first six Queen albums in terms of quality? To each his own, Sebastian :) |
| Mr Faron Hyte 17.08.2007 23:55 |
I just want to stick up for "Nothing But Blue", which is probably my favorite song on "Back to the Light" - IMO a much better album than "Mr. Bad Guy", which does sound very much like a collection of demos (demos that could and in some instances were turned into great songs). But anybody who thinks "Back to the Light" is better than any Queen album has been smoking the wacky tabacky. Its in the upper echelon of Queen solo works, along with "Barcelona" and "Fun in Space", but it doesn't lay a glove on about two-thirds of the Queen album catalogue. That's right - "Fun in Space" is Roger's best solo album. That's what I said. |
| The Real Wizard 18.08.2007 00:22 |
Mr Bad Guy sounds horribly dated. Most of the songs are great, but I definitely prefer the Queen versions of the two songs that made their way onto Made In Heaven. I enjoy the rarities disc on the Freddie boxed set far more than MBG - particularly the piano + vocal versions. As for BTTL... I can honestly see how Sebastian rates the album so well. However, I personally disagree, and will take ANATO, ADATR, and Innuendo over it for sure. But BTTL is a truly solid rock album, full of fantastic writing and musicianship all around (Cozy and Neil considered). Many of Brian's best songs, lyrics, vocal performances, and guitar orchestrations are on there. |
| john bodega 18.08.2007 00:48 |
Cozy Powell + Resurrection = 'nuff said!! I honestly don't like listening to all the songs on Back to the Light, they're a little too David-Gilmour-after-he-was-free-of-Roger-Waters for me.... at the same time I appreciate that it's a thoughtful album, I happen to like what Brian May was saying with it, and I do love three or four of the songs. I suppose the lyrics of Nothing But Blue were a little poor, as Sebastian said.... but I think that's territory you automatically risk sailing into when you do something as self-indulgent as mourning a friend! I like that song quite a bit. The funny thing is, and maybe this means I'm a deficient personality, but when I heard Back to the Light, I didn't find myself saying 'this would sound better as a full Queen song'. But when I was listening to Mr. Bad Guy, there were several moments where I thought it was just begging for... well.... Brian, Roger, and John. That isn't exactly a criticism, I suppose... what I will say for Mr. Bad Guy is that it had good songs on it. I didn't like all of them, but they were in there. They just suffered from lousy production. So anyway.... how about that Cozy Powell?? |
| Shane Jazz 18.08.2007 01:00 |
My top five songs from the albums combined: 5- Let Your Heart Rule Your Head 4- Back to the Light 3- Love Me Like There's No Tomorrow 2- TMLWKY 1- (my fave) Man Made Paradise (I love that song to freakin' bits!) As a cohesive album, BTTL is far more solid. MBG has some truly great individual moments, but stands as more of an exercise in the excesses of Freddie Mercury (which is not a bad thing). I don't fault the production of MBG- most everything from '84-'85 sounds dated. |
| john bodega 18.08.2007 01:48 |
"most everything from '84-'85 sounds dated." That doesn't make it okay though! :P |
| Tero 18.08.2007 04:38 |
Sebastian wrote: Not only his, but the cast is extraordinary, and both Neil and Cozy outdo John and Roger any time.Okay, so THAT'S what it's all about... You just happen to be a fan of Brian May the solo artist in any way shape or form, not Queen the band. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it's nice to know for future reference that your opinion of Queen albums compared to BM solo isn't all that credible. ;) |
| maxpower 18.08.2007 05:33 |
MBG is shit, sorry BTTL wins hands down |
| QueenSite 18.08.2007 06:09 |
BTTL wins...but it's easy, because Mr Bad Guy is Freddie's worst solo work |
| john bodega 18.08.2007 06:21 |
"Okay, so THAT'S what it's all about... You just happen to be a fan of Brian May the solo artist in any way shape or form, not Queen the band. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it's nice to know for future reference that your opinion of Queen albums compared to BM solo isn't all that credible. ;)" He's probably right though. |
| thomasquinn 32989 18.08.2007 15:47 |
Sebastian wrote: I think BBTL's better than, not only 'Bad Guy', but also any Queen album.I'm sorry, but you've now lost all the respect I had left for your musical taste. First, you find ABBA the best band ever, then, you say BTTL is better than any Queen album (therefore including Queen II and Innuendo); to be quite honest, I think you should stick to analysing songs for keys and instrumentation, because your assessement of quality is dubious at the least. |
| Bobby_brown 18.08.2007 18:49 |
Mr. Bad Guy vs. Back to the Light i´m really surprised about how people don´t like MBG. It´s the best thing I´ve heard from the 80´s (it surprassed any 80´s release by Queen- exception of Kind Of Magic). I like catchy songs, and i like the eighties sounds. This album makes me feel good, at it has the element that makes the difference for me- Freddie´s voice! That´s why i don´t get why so many people like to hear Brian on BTTL. There are songs were he just screams to get to the pitch. But, tastes are tastes, i just don´t get why people talk so much about production, and they ttally forget about the most beautifull instrument of them all- The voice. And in Freddie´s case, even though some songs are simple produced, i think his vocal delivery can make the difference. The same goes for Queen albums. What makes those songs Excellent is Fredie´s vocal delivery. Not production (but of course they´re very well produced). His voice has a pure quality, almost ethereal. I wouldn´t mind spending the day just listening him singing only with a piano. Of course the later versions from Queen were excelent, but for some reason i´ve allways liked the MBG versions the most. Maybe because i´ve listen to them first (and i think they should have kept the intro of IWBTLY as it was- with choir- and i really think that the intro is the focal point of the song. This little details is where Freddie scores big time- he uderstood how a song should go!). Take care |
| maxpower 18.08.2007 22:19 |
Might have something to do with BTTL rocks & has the guitar in it, were as MBG is pop/disco/gay bar music, each to their own |
| john bodega 19.08.2007 00:17 |
"There are songs were he just screams to get to the pitch." Freddie did that too, as he wasn't 'trained' per se..... the difference being, it sounded a lot better when he did it :) "(it surprassed any 80´s release by Queen- exception of Kind Of Magic)." I dunno.... I'd trade the Mr. Bad Guy album for one more song that was on a par with Was It All Worth It. |
| mike hunt 19.08.2007 00:33 |
Back to the light is a overall better album than Mr. bad guy. The most original and best work from a queen member outside of the band was easily freddie's barcelona. Back to the light is my second favorite. I won't even comment on back to the light being better than queen, that's just a joke. "I'm scared" is the worst song I'v ever heard. |
| thomasquinn 32989 19.08.2007 06:11 |
mike hunt wrote: Back to the light is a overall better album than Mr. bad guy. The most original and best work from a queen member outside of the band was easily freddie's barcelona. Back to the light is my second favorite. I won't even comment on back to the light being better than queen, that's just a joke. "I'm scared" is the worst song I'v ever heard.Let's not forget Roger's "Happiness?", which was a damn solid album! |
| Sebastian 19.08.2007 09:36 |
> BTTL has some good songs, but some pretty crappy songs too. IMO there's only one crappy song in 'BTTL', which is 'I'm Scared' - I've never been so thrilled about that one, I'd have preferred a cover of 'Since You've Been Gone'. But the album has everything I love on Queen music, only better (especially considering that my favourite Queen song is '39 and here we've got one with a more powerful edge). Sure, the vocal harmonies on 'Opera' and 'Races' outdo those found here, but in every other aspect (guitar, drums, bass, lyrics) I take 'Back To The Light'. 'The Dark' is Brian's best multi-tracking thing ever IMO, and I prefer 'Last Horizon' over any Queen solo, even 'WWTLF' and 'TATDOOL', which are both extraordinary. > A nice album, scattered, but to compare it to any of the first six Queen albums in terms of quality? Well ... as I said, in terms of vocals, 'II', 'Sheer Heart Attack', 'Opera' and 'Races' "win", but not in the other aspects. > IMO a much better album than "Mr. Bad Guy", which does sound very much like a collection of demos (demos that could and in some instances were turned into great songs). Indeed. Freddie was a wonderful songwriter and arranger, but here 'twas more a matter of "doing it" than "doing it right". I disagree with the "he was nothing without the others" theory, but I think he was rather lazy here. And I'm not criticising the genre - because disco/pop can sound well if done correctly - or the absence of distorted electric guitars - 'Barcelona' hasn't got any guitar but it's brilliant from beginning to end -, but the quality of performance. Even on vocals, it was Freddie's least powerful period: a solo album in the 70s or late 80s (like 'Barcelona') would have been fantastic. > But anybody who thinks "Back to the Light" is better than any Queen album has been smoking the wacky tabacky. Is it so hard to realise that someone's opinion may differ from yours? > Many of Brian's best songs, lyrics, vocal performances, and guitar orchestrations are on there. Not to mention his truly meticulous work on piano, drum programming and occasional bass. > You just happen to be a fan of Brian May the solo artist in any way shape or form, not Queen the band. Actually, not. I'm a fan of any sort of music which is played well, be it Queen, Mika, Britney Spears, Wes Montgomery or a group of buskers doing stomp. Roger's a fantastic drummer (and a quite underrated one), but Cozy's better, which makes the overall percussion sound on 'Back To The Light' much better than on any Queen album; similar with John and Neil. As I said, lyric-wise it's not perfect, but then again, most Queen albums had poor moments on lyrics ('Sweet Lady', for instance). > I'm sorry, but you've now lost all the respect I had left for your musical taste. OMG, I'll never be able to sleep again! > First, you find ABBA the best band ever Actually I don't think ABBA were the best band ever, although I do rate them amongst the greatest. Especially for sentimental reasons: the day my daughter was born their 'Gold' compilation was on top of the charts, and one ofthe very first songs she loved was 'I Had A Dream'. That's enough for loving the band more than nearly any other, and if you wanna know, my favourite group are the Spice Girls, for similar reasons. When it comes to the best band ever, I think Def Leppard would earn the prize for me, followed maybe by Radiohead. > then, you say BTTL is better than any Queen album (therefore including Queen II and Innuendo); 'II' has only one poor song ('Loser In The End'), and 'Innuendo' has 'Delilah' that ruins an otherwise perfect record. 'Back To The Light' has 'I'm Scared', which I don't like, so in that matter it's a tie. Now, the guitar work on 'II' and 'Innuendo', extraordinary as it is, isn't as marvellous as the one in 'Back To The Light' IMO ('Resurrection', 'Last Horiz |
| Tero 19.08.2007 15:35 |
Here are my thoughts about the original topic... MBG has a lot better vocals than BTTL, but BTTL has more of that rock feeling which usually sounds better. MBG has more good song ideas than BTTL (6-4 in my opinion), but both of the albums lack a second opinion to refine the songs further, and some good production. What really edges it over to MBG in my opinion is the fact that there is still potential in making them great songs instead of the ones they are now by additional input from the other members of Queen... It's a bit too late to have that for BTTL, as Freddie isn't around anymore. ;) The ultimate proof of this (and for the fact that Queen albums are better than either of these solo outputs) is the Made In Heaven album, which features songs from both of these albums which are miles better than the original versions... Queen really was a sum of four parts, and to think that one (or even two) of them would reach anything eve close to similar heights is wishful thinking. |
| Sebastian 19.08.2007 17:23 |
> The ultimate proof of this (and for the fact that Queen albums are better than either of these solo outputs) is the Made In Heaven album, which features songs from both of these albums which are miles better than the original versions... Irrelevant thesis: 'Too Much Love' is a song that had been recorded by Brian completely on his own for the solo project (he played piano, guitar and synths and did all of the vocals). It doesn't mean - at all - that Roger + John would outdo the rhythm performance found on 'Love Token', or that Brian's, Roger's or John's (or even Freddie's for that matter) keyboard abilities would be on par with Mike Moran's. |
| Winter Land Man 19.08.2007 21:19 |
A lot of the songs on Back To The Light sound rediculous, particularly the title track. Sounds like Brian doing a parody of himself. And I'm not a big fan on Brian's vocals anyway, too soft. Not a big fan on using female backing singers either. Not being sexist, it's just when I think a man is singing, I think they should have men singing backing vocals if they need any. Same with women. Too Much Love Will Kill You sounds too soft. Driven By You is a pathetic song. Last Horizon is a nice instrumental. The rest to me is filler. I'm just not a big fan of Brian's vocals. They seem to have no power, and I love Queen's version of Too Much Love Will Kill You far better than Brian's solo version. Vocally, and instrumentally. I like Mr. Bad Guy better. I don't care if it's more dance oriented. I like that kind of music anyway. Brian sings nice at times. I really like Leaving Home Ain't Easy but that of course is from a Queen album. Brian's a great song writer but not the best of vocalists, and he'd agree with that. And besides, like a lot of people have mentioned, they compared Back To The Light to Mr. Bad Guy which many Queen fans don't really like much. Compare Back To The Light to Barcelona. |
| Tero 19.08.2007 23:56 |
Sebastian wrote: Irrelevant thesis: 'Too Much Love' is a song that had been recorded by Brian completely on his own for the solo project (he played piano, guitar and synths and did all of the vocals). It doesn't mean - at all - that Roger + John would outdo the rhythm performance found on 'Love Token', or that Brian's, Roger's or John's (or even Freddie's for that matter) keyboard abilities would be on par with Mike Moran's.If you have a thesis completely irrelevant to my message, why bother quoting it? Yes, you are quite right with your thesis: the content of the album will tell us nothing about the instrumental skills of any individuals. It will however tell us about... (surprise surprise) the content of the album, which is mediocre and sounds unfinished. Additional production and outside opinions can only improve that, hence the Made In Heaven version of TMLWKY. |
| mike hunt 20.08.2007 01:23 |
<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:I'v never been a huge fan of roger's solo work, but electric fire was ok.mike hunt wrote: Back to the light is a overall better album than Mr. bad guy. The most original and best work from a queen member outside of the band was easily freddie's barcelona. Back to the light is my second favorite. I won't even comment on back to the light being better than queen, that's just a joke. "I'm scared" is the worst song I'v ever heard.Let's not forget Roger's "Happiness?", which was a damn solid album! |
| mike hunt 20.08.2007 01:35 |
.*.Messenger: Jake Pyndle.*. wrote: A lot of the songs on Back To The Light sound rediculous, particularly the title track. Sounds like Brian doing a parody of himself. And I'm not a big fan on Brian's vocals anyway, too soft. Not a big fan on using female backing singers either. Not being sexist, it's just when I think a man is singing, I think they should have men singing backing vocals if they need any. Same with women. Too Much Love Will Kill You sounds too soft. Driven By You is a pathetic song. Last Horizon is a nice instrumental. The rest to me is filler. I'm just not a big fan of Brian's vocals. They seem to have no power, and I love Queen's version of Too Much Love Will Kill You far better than Brian's solo version. Vocally, and instrumentally. I like Mr. Bad Guy better. I don't care if it's more dance oriented. I like that kind of music anyway. Brian sings nice at times. I really like Leaving Home Ain't Easy but that of course is from a Queen album. Brian's a great song writer but not the best of vocalists, and he'd agree with that. And besides, like a lot of people have mentioned, they compared Back To The Light to Mr. Bad Guy which many Queen fans don't really like much. Compare Back To The Light to Barcelona.I'm also not a huge fan of brians voice, and I agree about "driven by you" is not very good. The title track is ok, but brians voice sounds weak and strained. "one life" is decent, but boring. On the other hand "love token" kicks ass, and last horizon is perfect. This argument could go on forever, it's all opinion. You can't rip sebastion for his opinion, but I want to ask why he places Neil higher than John?...arn't you underating Mr. Deacon just a little sebastion?...remember millianare waltz?...Cozy vs roger is close, but in the early 90's roger could never play ressurection the way cozy did. The 70's roger is another story. |
| john bodega 20.08.2007 08:36 |
"'The Dark' is Brian's best multi-tracking thing ever IMO" I'd agree actually... usually, I say the best thing he did in that area is the big sounding section of All Dead, All Dead. I amend that to 'The Dark', depending on what mood I'm in! |
| Sebastian 20.08.2007 09:04 |
> If you have a thesis completely irrelevant to my message, why bother quoting it? What I meant is that *your* thesis was irrelevant because 'Too Much Love' was only one song off the album, and it doesn't mean that all tracks would've been better as Queen things. I think Brian was clever enough to give 'Headlong' and 'I Can't Live With You' to the band, because those are the ones that sounded better with Freddie on vocals (myself, I'd have put Cozy on drums and leave Roger just for vocal harmonies). > Additional production and outside opinions can only improve that, hence the Made In Heaven version of TMLWKY. BTTL had outside opinions where needed, and as I said, 'Too Much Love' is a different case (especially considering that it was going to be on a Queen album in the first place). 'Love Token' and 'Resurrection' are different cases: they do sound better with Brian's voice IMO, and Cozy's a much better drummer than Rog, which improves the quality of the tracks. 'Resurrection' sounds all right with that synth-bass, so it didn't need John at all, and 'Love Token' has Neil, who easily outdoes Deacy. > You can't rip sebastion for his opinion, but I want to ask why he places Neil higher than John?... It's Sebastian actually (with an "a"). I don't mean to be nitpicky, but I've actually seen my name spelt like that many times in this forum and it's annoying (I'm sure it's not your intention but still...). Anyway, John is (or was?) an extraordinary bass player, and quite an underrated one too. But Neil's better, hands down - better technique and his playing is even more versatile (which is something they're both excellent at). Roger's a wonderful drummer too, but Cozy was obviously better. > I'd agree actually... usually, I say the best thing he did in that area is the big sounding section of All Dead, All Dead. 'All Dead' is indeed one of those songs that sounds better with Roger on drums, than it would with Cozy. Same for the bass (John vs Neil). I suppose that Brian wrote the Queen songs with Roger+John in mind, so he arranged in a way that sounded better with them. The only thing I would "Queen-ise" in 'Back To The Light' would be the backing vocals: imagine 'Resurrection' interlude with Roger, Freddie, Brian and Chris multi-tracking each part; 'Love Token' would have sounded brill with that combination too. 'Too Much Love' and 'Driven By You', OTOH, are perfect with just Brian IMO. |
| Boy Thomas Raker 20.08.2007 09:05 |
I think BTTL is a more unfocused album than MBG, which is why I have a tough time with it. Some nice songs, but looking back, The Dark is from 1980's Flash Gordon sessions, TMLWKY is mid 80s and Nothing but blue is around that time of Freddie's death. I think it's hard to have a coherent album when you're working with material over a 12-15 year period. At least Freddie's album was primarily a synth dance thing that was written in a small window of time in the mid 80s. Unlike Sebastian, I didn't like the sound of Cozy Powell and Neil Murray playing with Brian, not that they're not superb, or even better than Roger and John, I just didn't like the sound of the drums or bass in comparison to ow Roger and John were recorded. Only fair I suppose as I've heard their sound with Brian for so many years. |
| The Fairy King 20.08.2007 09:09 |
<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:Amen!mike hunt wrote: Back to the light is a overall better album than Mr. bad guy. The most original and best work from a queen member outside of the band was easily freddie's barcelona. Back to the light is my second favorite. I won't even comment on back to the light being better than queen, that's just a joke. "I'm scared" is the worst song I'v ever heard.Let's not forget Roger's "Happiness?", which was a damn solid album! It was the first Roger solo album i owned and it's still my favorite one. |
| Freddie May 20.08.2007 11:50 |
MBD and BTTL are both crap : "Spice" from the Spice Girls is easily the best album of all times... |
| Sebastian 20.08.2007 12:06 |
Actually, I disagree: 'Spice World' is a much stronger album than 'Spice', and both Sporty and Posh improved greatly from one recording to the other. Plus the instrumentation on 'World' is more professional. |
| Vali 20.08.2007 14:11 |
<b><font color="#FF1493">The Fairy King wrote:"Happiness?" has, in my opinion, the most catchy starting of any of the solo projects by any Queen member. Everytime I play it I listen from "Nazis 1994" til "Foreign Sand", wich means 5 songs, as a unique whole song with different sections. I cannot random and go from, for example, "Revelations" to "The Key". It would break the ... spirit or whatever you call it ... of this album´s starting section.<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:Amen! It was the first Roger solo album i owned and it's still my favorite one.mike hunt wrote: Back to the light is a overall better album than Mr. bad guy. The most original and best work from a queen member outside of the band was easily freddie's barcelona. Back to the light is my second favorite. I won't even comment on back to the light being better than queen, that's just a joke. "I'm scared" is the worst song I'v ever heard.Let's not forget Roger's "Happiness?", which was a damn solid album! Regarding Brian´s, BTTLL is a good album that "sounds" like a whole thing (like Happiness) to me, not as the (good) collection of songs that is "Another World". BUT, always in my modest oppinion, "Another World" has one song that makes me always wonder what would have been if it was sung by Freddie: China Belle, wich is to me the most Queenie of Brian´s solo songs. And some words about Freddie´s work. I do agree that the most original and daring solo work from any Queen member is "Barcelona" (not saying this for being my hometown). Songs like "La Japonaise" are simply superb artworks. And "Mr Bad Guy" is a fantastic work, too. Just for the fact that it contains Freddie´s voice at his peak, as somebody said in a previous post. That´s all I need. Maybe sounds dated, yes, if you don´t feel confortable with that 80´s sound (it´s not my case), but I find it truly funny. cheers everybody ! |
| Tero 20.08.2007 14:40 |
Sebastian wrote: What I meant is that *your* thesis was irrelevant because 'Too Much Love' was only one song off the album, and it doesn't mean that all tracks would've been better as Queen things. I think Brian was clever enough to give 'Headlong' and 'I Can't Live With You' to the band, because those are the ones that sounded better with Freddie on vocals (myself, I'd have put Cozy on drums and leave Roger just for vocal harmonies).You need to start paying attention to what's been written, even in your own posts. Absolutely no-one in this topic brought to question the quality of musicianship on the BTTL or Queen albums. That was the irrelevant thesis of yours on which you spent your entire reply to me. It had absolutely nothing to do with my point (about TWLWKY sounding better on the MIH album), because I never mentioned anybody's musical abilities. If I call the songs on BTTL half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos, where does it imply that there is something wrong with the quality of the backing musicians? Or is this all just your attempt to throw a smokescreen around the real issue, that the songs have plenty of weak points that could have been addressed? |
| cinfred 20.08.2007 20:06 |
I would have to say Mr. Bad Guy is better then Back to the Light. I just think the songs are more catchy and Freddie has by far a much better voice then Brian. I think " The Great Pretender" Is Freddie's best for solo work. "My Defence" Is a absolute lovely song. Truely Beautiful. Thanks for listening. Cindy |
| Sebastian 20.08.2007 20:51 |
You need to start paying attention to what's been written, even in your own posts.That's actually another "irrelevant thesis". But anyway, to describe it step by step, you wrote "The ultimate proof of this (and for the fact that Queen albums are better than either of these solo outputs) is the Made In Heaven album, which features songs from both of these albums which are miles better than the original versions...". In that statement you consider that MIH featuring songs from both 'Bad Guy' and BTTL is "the ultimate proof", which is what I refer to as the 'irrelevant thesis'. The reason is that even if 'Too Much Love' sounded better as a Queen track (which is a matter of opinion, and I for one prefer Brian's solo), it doesn't mean that every track on BTTL would sound better as a Queen thing, the reason being the musical professionalism of Cozy and the others (which I didn't imply had been "brought to question"). If I call the songs on BTTL half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos, where does it imply that there is something wrong with the quality of the backing musicians?Nowhere, but then again, I didn't say you'd implied that. It seems I'm not the only one who's got to "start paying attention to what's been written, even in (one's) own posts". And then again, it's not a fact that those songs were "half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos", it's just an opinion, just as my opinion (which can be agreed or disagreed with) is that, if those numbers had been "half-finished ideas almost worthy of being classed as demos" they wouldn't have been released in the first place, considering how meticulous Dr May is. They're finished versions with loads of effort behind, regardless of the different opinions generated by them. Or is this all just your attempt to throw a smokescreen around the real issueNot at all. Personal attacks (even those mild ones, like criticising one's reading comprehension), OTOH, are something I'd consider an "attempt to throw a smokescreen around the real issue". that the songs have plenty of weak points that could have been addressed?Those weak points are merely opinions, which can't be absolutes. In MY opinion, a weak point of Queen live in the 80s was the vocal warm-up bit Fred did with the audience; in someone else opinion, that could be a plus. No right or wrong there. Same here: you may not like the sound and (relative) simplicity of Brian's 'Too Much Love', but that's very different from stating that the Queen version is categorically better and that it's an "ultimate proof for the fact that Queen albums are better than either of these solo outputs". And THAT is what I meant by 'irrelevant thesis'. |
| Tero 21.08.2007 02:12 |
Sebastian: How could one prove that the BTTL or MBG songs would be better as Queen versions? By making Queen versions of them, and asking what people think about them. Which one of them have been made into Queen versions? Made In Heaven, I Was Born To Love You, and Too Much Love Will Kill You. Which of them sound better as Queen versions rather than solo versions? All of them, according to just about everybody here at QZ. That means, that according to all existing proof (as opposed to speculation what the other songs might sound like if they were ever remade) the second opinion and additional production on the songs has improved them. The "ultimate proof" is that listeners prefer the Queen versions over the solo versions. That much isn't about personal opinion, wouldn't you agree? (We can just ignore the rest of this argument because it's all about you adoring Brian's work, and me not caring about it.) |
| Sebastian 21.08.2007 07:48 |
> How could one prove that the BTTL or MBG songs would be better as Queen versions? By making Queen versions of them, and asking what people think about them. On MBG the plural applies, on BTTL it doesn't, because it's just one song (and one that'd been recorded for 'The Miracle' first), which doesn't mean that "BTTL songs would be better as Queen versions". > Which of them sound better as Queen versions rather than solo versions? All of them, according to just about everybody here at QZ. Wrong. There have been several threads about "which is your favourite 'Too Much Love'?" (or something to that effect) and it's sort of a toss-up. Some like Brian's better, some prefer Freddie's. Thus, it IS "about personal opinion". Regarding Mr Bad Guy, indeed a vast majority of QZ seems to prefer Queen versions, which still doesn't mean they're absolutely "better". |
| john bodega 21.08.2007 08:51 |
"We can just ignore the rest of this argument because it's all about you adoring Brian's work, and me not caring about it" I love it when people invalidate their own argument in one sentence, it makes it a lot quicker for me to sift through bullshit posts. |
| Boy Thomas Raker 21.08.2007 09:07 |
I find the Queen versions inferior, except for IWBTLY, which falls into my personal bottom 5% of Queen songs so I don't care. TMLWKY sounds emotionally flat vocally with Freddie, I much prefer Brian's version, and MIH is just utterly contrived to make it Queen like. Again, songs are finished and put out by their authors as they want to hear them. When Brian did TMLWKY, he didn't have an electric solo or harmony guitars because he didn't want them on it. Same with Freddie on MIH, no guitars because he didn't want them. Now you have two songs that sound pretty dissimilar to the original, and it's totally opinion if they're better. Both Brian and Freddie released the song in the form they WANTED it released. Freddie even thanks Brian, Roger and John on MBG for not interfering. In my view, even worse than changing the instrumentation on MIH, they manipulated the ending to make it darker and more plodding than Freddie's, which is horrible in my view. MIH off of MBG was optimistic, despite its lyrical form. It ends with Freddie playing a major key piece and singing the "written in the stars" line to a fade out. On the Queen version, it becomes a minor key cold ending that dramatically thumps. If that's what Freddie wanted, he would have written the song that way. IMHO of course. |
| Tero 21.08.2007 10:33 |
Sebastian wrote: There have been several threads about "which is your favourite 'Too Much Love'?" (or something to that effect) and it's sort of a toss-up. Some like Brian's better, some prefer Freddie's. Thus, it IS "about personal opinion". Regarding Mr Bad Guy, indeed a vast majority of QZ seems to prefer Queen versions, which still doesn't mean they're absolutely "better".If you'd just said this instead of waffling about the musical abilities of Mike Moran, we could have agreed to disagree yesterday. ;) The subjective quality of the songs IS purely a matter of personal opinion, and it cannot be quantified (even with instrumental prowess which you attempted). The ONLY way to draw any larger conclusions about "which is better" is to ask people their opinions, and make a statistical generalisation that most people like one of the versions more than the other. It is STATISTICALLY true that Queen albums are regarded as better than the solo outputs, and that's enough for me to say that Queen albums are "better". Everyone knows that there are the extremes (e.g. you) which would disagree with it, but that doesn't change the opinion of the overwhelming majority. |
| thomasquinn 32989 21.08.2007 11:38 |
Wow. I'd never have thought Sebastian was an extremist :P |
| louvox 21.08.2007 14:04 |
My vote goes to "Back to the light" "Mr. Bad Guy" is one of the worst albums ever released. Talk about a total pile of shit. |
| thomasquinn 32989 21.08.2007 14:14 |
louvox wrote: My vote goes to "Back to the light" "Mr. Bad Guy" is one of the worst albums ever released. Talk about a total pile of shit.I'm pretty sure N*SYNC, Backstreet Boys, Spice Girls, and other similar bands that I've blissfully forgotten about, have made considerably worse efforts. |
| cakebox. 21.08.2007 14:35 |
No, not N Sync! Even you got to admit, Home for Christmas is one of the best conceptual albums ever made! |
| louvox 21.08.2007 18:07 |
<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:Your right about that, but for some one as good as Freddie, it was a total shame he decided to release a crappy disco record just appease his circle of friends.louvox wrote: My vote goes to "Back to the light" "Mr. Bad Guy" is one of the worst albums ever released. Talk about a total pile of shit.I'm pretty sure N*SYNC, Backstreet Boys, Spice Girls, and other similar bands that I've blissfully forgotten about, have made considerably worse efforts. |
| Sebastian 21.08.2007 20:40 |
> If you'd just said this instead of waffling about the musical abilities of Mike Moran, we could have agreed to disagree yesterday. ;) Good point. OTOH everything happens for a reason... > The subjective quality of the songs IS purely a matter of personal opinion, and it cannot be quantified (even with instrumental prowess which you attempted). Agreed. > The ONLY way to draw any larger conclusions about "which is better" is to ask people their opinions, and make a statistical generalisation that most people like one of the versions more than the other. Sort of ... I agree to disagree > It is STATISTICALLY true that Queen albums are regarded as better than the solo outputs, and that's enough for me to say that Queen albums are "better". For that matter, it's STATISTICALLY true that Hitler was right, because millions followed him; millions voted for George Bush, so it's STATISTICALLY true that he's a wonderful person... > Everyone knows that there are the extremes (e.g. you) which would disagree with it, but that doesn't change the opinion of the overwhelming majority. Sort of ... you've got to consider that the overwhelming majority don't even know Brian's solo career. There's a very subjective aspect in those polls and things. > I'd never have thought Sebastian was an extremist :P I am, but not on a dangerous way - the more I can do is throwing a long explanation for my opinions on an online forum. But I'm not the sort of person who'd kill others for having a different religion, race or nationality. In that matter, there have been thousands of people much more extremists than me. > Even you got to admit, Home for Christmas is one of the best conceptual albums ever made! Actually, 'No Strings Attached' is much better IMO. I've never been so thrilled about 'Celebrity', although I like 'Pop' and 'Gone', but hardly the rest of it. |
| inmydefence 21.08.2007 22:07 |
Zebonka12 wrote: I honestly don't like listening to all the songs on Back to the Light, they're a little too David-Gilmour-after-he-was-free-of-Roger-Waters for me....Funny you should say that... because i think the best song on your myspace is "missing you" (love it, gave me goosebumps!) and it really reminded me of "Marooned" by Pink Floyd, and thats about as "David-Gilmour-after-he-was-free-of-Roger-Waters" as you can get! |
| Tero 22.08.2007 02:00 |
Sebastian wrote: For that matter, it's STATISTICALLY true that Hitler was right, because millions followed him; millions voted for George Bush, so it's STATISTICALLY true that he's a wonderful person...Then again you could statistically say that Hitler was wrong because the majority of the people around the world disagreed with him (just like the majority of the world seems to disagree with Bush). ;) And then there's of course the whole question of whether they knew what he was really up... It's a bit like voting in a Queen vs. Brian poll without ever hearing a single Queen song! Sebastian wrote: Sort of ... you've got to consider that the overwhelming majority don't even know Brian's solo career. There's a very subjective aspect in those polls and things.I agree of course, and that's why you can't ask about these kinds of things from the average Joe who's never even heard of Brian May as a solo artist... On places like QZ you might get some indication on which is generally considered to be "better", but here we have the risk of being more biased towards the other end of the scale. Either way, I hope you enjoy listening to Brian May in the future as well. :) |
| gnomo 22.08.2007 04:05 |
louvox wrote: it was a total shame he decided to release a crappy disco record just appease his circle of friends.... how do you know it was not just to appease HIMSELF...? |
| g2000 22.08.2007 06:46 |
Its a very interesting topic. One thing that i dont think has been mentioned is is that as artists they couldnt do anything that sounded remotely like Queen. So they had to change their writing style accordingly. In many ways Barcelona was an easier concept for freddie as it was coming from such a definate place and he could do what he wanted in that particular field. But all the other solo output were trying to be in the same top 40 genre as Queen giving all of them little room to manoeuver as Queen covered so much ground. So i think its a little unfair to judge their writing abilities based on their solo stuff. Also, major record company backing helps if you want to have any chart or worldwide success, but if you limit all promotion to just queen fans you are going to struggle. For example when justin timberlake came out there was a strategy to sell big that had nothing to do with exsisting n'sync fans |
| john bodega 22.08.2007 07:04 |
inmydefence wrote:Well it's funny :) There's the music that I like listening to, and there's the music that comes out of me.... and you know what? The two differ a fair bit. If I heard any of my songs on a car radio, I'd probably turn them off pretty quickly :PZebonka12 wrote: I honestly don't like listening to all the songs on Back to the Light, they're a little too David-Gilmour-after-he-was-free-of-Roger-Waters for me....Funny you should say that... because i think the best song on your myspace is "missing you" (love it, gave me goosebumps!) and it really reminded me of "Marooned" by Pink Floyd, and thats about as "David-Gilmour-after-he-was-free-of-Roger-Waters" as you can get! Having said that, I really do like Marooned and High Hopes. |
| Boy Thomas Raker 22.08.2007 09:52 |
I don't think Freddie did anything to appease anyone but Freddie. His greatest strength as a writer and artist was his imagination and diversity. I think he'd be bored writing songs like he did for the first two albums in 1985. He changed, but he changed in a direction that was unpopular for most Queen fans. |
| HAGASBAR 27.08.2007 22:42 |
Creo que MBG es levemente mejor que BTTL. La pé. |
| john bodega 27.08.2007 23:07 |
HAGASBAR wrote: Creo que MBG es levemente mejor que BTTL. La pé.No thanks, I just ate. |
| NOTWMEDDLE 28.08.2007 15:05 |
I remember delving into the solo Queen ctalog in 1992. First solo album I heard was Mercury's Mr Bad Guy (on cassette) and was saying "what on Earth?". Then I heard Star Fleet from Brian and said "very good though only 28 minutes". Then I remember when BTTL came out here in the US, I was a junior in High School and aged 17. When I heard WZLX play the title cut, the rock mix of Driven By You, Nothing But Blue and Resurrection, I was sold on the album. My standouts are The Dark, title cut, Love Token, Resurrection (definitely Cozy kicked f*cking a**), Too Much Love, Driven by You (though I preferred the version with new drum track and mix at the end of the US version), Nothing But Blue (Deaky did a stellar job on bass on this track), Lost Horizon (awesome instrumental). The other tracks were great but this album was sadly ignored in favor of Pearl Jam (whose lead singer needs Pepto Bismol) and Nerdvana. MBG had its moments, I thought it had a Roger drum sound but it was Curt Cress who played the drums on the album. Favorites on here were the title cut, Man Made Paradise (the phased Freddie singing in a low octave and the delayed Freddie singing in a higher octave then the end with the collage of his voices, could have been a separate track). |
| Danne 31.08.2007 10:07 |
Sebastian wrote: Roger's a wonderful drummer too, but Cozy was obviously better.OK, you've been saying that quite a lot in this thread, and I felt an urge to address it... :) The thing that annoys with mw with this comment is that you state it like it's a "fact", while you in other posts say that there can be no right or wrong, only opinions. Well, let me tell you then, Roger's obviously a better drummer, in my opinion (since that's what it is). It probably all depends on how you define what good musicianship is all about. Sure, I have no doubt that Cozy Powell is a much faster drummer than Roger, but that's not all it takes to be a good musician (IMO). Roger is a far more musical drummer, and his playing gels much more with Brian's playing, as is obvious (to me), when comparing them. Roger's drumming has a lot more swing to it (while I think that Cozy's drumming is a bit stiff, to say the least), and last - but not least - Roger is a far more original drummer. His playing is almost always instantly recognizable. Cozy sounds like any session rock drummer, albeit one with great technical capabilities. |
| Sebastian 31.08.2007 12:26 |
I agree to disagree there, then. Sometimes the matter of who's "better" is merely opinion, like in a Satriani vs Vai or if we put Lennon vs McCartney as composers. But in other cases, there IS a black-or-white solution. For instance, Rick Wakeman is absolutely better as pianist than Mercury, McCartney or Axl Rose, by far. Likewise, Ritchie Blackmore's a much better guitarist than Kurt Cobain, Chris Squire's a much better bassist than Sting, and Michael Ball's a much better singer than Eddie van Halen. So, here, as brill (and underrated) as a drummer Roger definitely is, I *think* it's fairly obvious that Cozy's on a different level. |
| Micrówave 31.08.2007 12:44 |
NOTWMEDDLE wrote: I thought it had a Roger drum sound but it was Curt Cress who played the drums on the album.Ah, the great Curt Cress. Got his start working for Englebert and was in the right place at the right time. No, not the Freddie album. But that role led him a few years later to his biggest fanbase, as the drummer for Milli Vanilli. Wonder if he ever met 'em.? |
| Zak Royen 31.08.2007 12:50 |
but, Sebastian, what is/are the objective criterion/a to judge, say, a guitarist? |
| Danne 31.08.2007 13:13 |
Sebastian wrote: I agree to disagree there, then.You do that! :) It would be no fun if people always agreed... But in other cases, there IS a black-or-white solution. For instance, Rick Wakeman is absolutely better as pianist than Mercury, McCartney or Axl Rose, by far. Likewise, Ritchie Blackmore's a much better guitarist than Kurt Cobain, Chris Squire's a much better bassist than Sting, and Michael Ball's a much better singer than Eddie van Halen.The imperative question must be: better at what, exactly? I know really great musicians (since I am one myself, not great, that is, but a musician :) ), many classically trained, or viruoso jazz performers. There is no question that they are enormously good at what they do. However (and this is a big however), many of them, if they try to play a so called "simple" rock song, lacks all the feel for what is the fundamental aspects of that genre, no matter if they play the notes correctly. Music is so much more than technical ability, and that's why Ritchie Blackmore, no matter how good he is, probably would be a disaster in a grunge band, such as Nirvana. (I don't really know, maybe he's a phenomenal grunge guitarist). So, here, as brill (and underrated) as a drummer Roger definitely is, I *think* it's fairly obvious that Cozy's on a different level.Yes, you *think'. And I agree, they are (or were, since sadly Cozy is no longer with us) on different levels, but in my opinion Roger is the drummer on the higher one (and I'm still not talking about technical ability, although it's important to have that aswell)... |
| The Real Wizard 31.08.2007 16:27 |
All I'll add is this: If it were all about the technical level, then we'd all be listening to Shawn Lane and Victor Wooten all day. But it's not most people's cup of tea, is it? |
| Boy Thomas Raker 31.08.2007 17:28 |
I guess it depends on the reasons that you like music. Maybe Eddie Van Halen, Rick Wakeman, Cozy Powell and Billy Sheehan are absolutely "better" at their respective instruments than Brian, Freddie, Roger and John. But none of the four (of the stuff I've heard) is anywhere near as tasteful in their playing as the guys from Queen. I remember a review in Musician magazine about Billy Sheehan and Steve Vai trading 64th note licks on a song called Elephant Gun on a David Lee Roth album. The reviewer was orgasmic about Billy Sheehan's super dynamic bass skills compared to Michael Anthony. Well, imagine Billy Sheehan on Under Pressure. He may have played the same bass line as John, or he may have seen the need for a couple of 64th note passages that John may not technically have done, but that would hurt the song. Sebastian would argue that the ability to play tastefully and for the song isn't a criteria on technical proficiency, but I'd think the reason a lot of us like Queen is they played for the song most of the time. I think that's a huge part of being a great musician. |
| Danne 01.09.2007 06:28 |
Well said. |
| Sebastian 01.09.2007 07:54 |
I do agree that technique isn't everything. Not even half of it, actually. But technique is (IMO) just one of the many aspects Cozy outdid Roger in. There are many songs with Roger's fantastic drumming, but which would've sounded better with Cozy, and sure enough they did ('Hammer to Fall', 'Headlong'). Brian was clever enough to pick the right man during his solo career though: 'Nothin' But Blue' is precisely the sort of track that Deacy would fit better than Neil, and there you go ... as far as I know, 'No-One But You' had been taylor-made for Rog too, before thinking of it as a "Queen" track (and Cozy was still alive at the time). Otoh, as I said, I would have liked Roger (and Freddie, for that matter) to sing backing vocals on some songs off 'Back To The Light'. |
| Danne 01.09.2007 10:41 |
Sebastian wrote: There are many songs with Roger's fantastic drumming, but which would've sounded better with Cozy, and sure enough they did ('Hammer to Fall', 'Headlong').'Headlong' is a perfect example of what I mean. In my opinion, the Queen version, with Roger drumming, is superior to the one from Live at Brixton. Roger's drumming (although far from being his greatest effort) swings along in a lazy, rock'n'roll fashion, which suits the track perfectly. The sound is pure Roger, with the simultaneous half-open hihat and snare, and the singing tom-toms. In comparison Cozy's version sounds much more stiff, and his hugely forward-driving and "on" playing make the track sound like a hard rock track from the 80's (and not in a good way). |