Cedric6014 13.07.2007 00:15 |
If I was to attribute the following songs to a band member, who would be the most appropriate? Khashoggi’s Ship May Baby Does Me One Vision Stone Cold Crazy The Miracle Was It All Worth It |
Lester Burnham 13.07.2007 02:10 |
Cedric6014 wrote: If I was to attribute the following songs to a band member, who would be the most appropriate? Khashoggi’s Ship May Baby Does Me One Vision Stone Cold Crazy The Miracle Was It All Worth ItKhashoggi’s Ship -- Freddie, mostly May Baby Does Me -- Freddie and John One Vision -- Freddie, Brian, and Roger Stone Cold Crazy -- Freddie, mostly The Miracle -- Freddie Was It All Worth It -- Freddie and Brian |
Sweetie 13.07.2007 02:58 |
...White Lines On A Black Road... who wrote that - huh? |
Sebastian 13.07.2007 07:44 |
Yes, although actually 'Worth It' is more Freddie than Brian with some contributions from Roger, and 'Kashoggi's' is Fred's only regarding music - lyrics are a four-way split (reportedly the same thing happens with 'Miracle'). |
brian-harold-may 26643 13.07.2007 08:17 |
one vision. music- mainly Brian words- mainly roger arrangment- mainly freddie( also he changed alot of rogers words). thats as far as i am aware, if anyone knows different and can correct me then please do. cheers. |
Sebastian 13.07.2007 08:21 |
You're right, and that's why IMO Fred shouldn't be counted as co-writer in 'One Vision'. Surely, he arranged and changed some ideas, but so did George Martin on 'Yesterday' but the song is still McCartney's; or Roger on 'No One But You', Brian on his 'All The Way From Memphis' cover or Fred himself on 'Magic' and 'Ga Ga'. All arrangers instead of co-writers. |
thomasquinn 32989 13.07.2007 12:44 |
Sebastian wrote: You're right, and that's why IMO Fred shouldn't be counted as co-writer in 'One Vision'. Surely, he arranged and changed some ideas, but so did George Martin on 'Yesterday' but the song is still McCartney's; or Roger on 'No One But You', Brian on his 'All The Way From Memphis' cover or Fred himself on 'Magic' and 'Ga Ga'. All arrangers instead of co-writers.I don't know if you've ever written a song, Sebastian, but if you have, you should know that whether or not an arranger deserves co-authorship depends from song to song. If an arrangement adds creatively to the song as a whole, the arranger should get credit (for example, Ravel arranging Debussy for orchestra, but also in a number of popular songs), if he/she didn't do much (such as my arranging Jean-Michel Jarre's 'Equinoxe' for a 7-piece rock-band [sorry, I can't think of anything better example right now] which leaves most of the song as it was), he/she shouldn't. |
Sebastian 13.07.2007 13:41 |
I have written songs, and I keep my point. George Martin orchestrated many Beatles tracks, but they're still Lennon's, McCartney's, Harrison's or Starkey's. Freddie Mercury changed loads of things in 'Radio Ga Ga' but, as he said, "it's still Roger's song". Valensia changed 'Liar' completely but it's still Mercury's, Guns N' Roses completely re-arranged 'Knockin' On Heaven's Door', added bass-part, guitar solos, a nice intro ... but the piece is still Bob Dylan's. Of course everybody's entitled to their own opinion about the matter ... reportedly, John considered Fred's input in 'Pain Is So Close' and 'Friends Will Be Friends' enough for a co-credit, while 'A Hard Life' is credited solely to Mercury in spite of Brian's strong lyrical contributions and in spite of the (almost verbatim) quote on the intro. Some people give a co-credit for a single word (or note/chord/riff), some don't. It seems obvious that the band considered 'One Vision' to be collaborative enough to be credited to them all (same as 'Stone Cold Crazy', God knows why), so all I'm giving here is a(nother) opinion, not intending to impose it to anybody. I have indeed arranged songs from friends, but I always reject a co-credit unless I've actually put an entire new section (like McCartney did for 'A Day In The Life'). |
thunderbolt 31742 13.07.2007 21:17 |
Freddie will always be considered a co-composer of "One Vision" in my book. He added the timeless lyrics: "fried chicken." |
Sebastian 14.07.2007 07:37 |
Thunderbolt<br><h6>Courtesy of God wrote: Freddie will always be considered a co-composer of "One Vision" in my book. He added the timeless lyrics: "fried chicken."Wasn't that Jim Hutton? |
August R. 14.07.2007 10:47 |
Sebastian wrote:I believe it was. Also, I believe there's a difference between a composer and a lyricist.Thunderbolt<br><h6>Courtesy of God wrote: Freddie will always be considered a co-composer of "One Vision" in my book. He added the timeless lyrics: "fried chicken."Wasn't that Jim Hutton? |
~im a fool~ 15.07.2007 20:37 |
i think the real question is: who cares? |
The Real Wizard 15.07.2007 23:00 |
~im a fool~ wrote: i think the real question is: who cares?Many of us do, clearly... as we're adding to the discussion. If you don't, then that's fine. Leave us be. Very interesting discussion, guys. In my opinion, composition and arrangement are equal, and thus arrangement should deserve equal credit... although it rarely gets it. |
Sweetie 16.07.2007 00:54 |
~im a fool~ wrote: i think the real question is: who cares?A lot of people and unlike many threads that I've said that on - I care. |
Sebastian 16.07.2007 08:48 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Very interesting discussion, guys. In my opinion, composition and arrangement are equal, and thus arrangement should deserve equal credit... although it rarely gets it.Interesting point, which I partially share. Generally, popular music's essentially oblivious about the importance of arrangements, while classical and jazz gives the deserved consideration to them (and more to the point, to the creative force behind). |
The Real Wizard 16.07.2007 11:30 |
Sebastian wrote:Yep... agreed.Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Very interesting discussion, guys. In my opinion, composition and arrangement are equal, and thus arrangement should deserve equal credit... although it rarely gets it.Interesting point, which I partially share. Generally, popular music's essentially oblivious about the importance of arrangements, while classical and jazz gives the deserved consideration to them (and more to the point, to the creative force behind). |
thomasquinn 32989 17.07.2007 09:20 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:I think that might be to do with the fact that, usually, jazz- and classical musicians/composers have far more technical understanding of the process of making music than those in the pop/rock area. And I'm not referring to technical proficiency in playing or composition, but more to musical philosophy.Sebastian wrote:Yep... agreed.Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:Very interesting discussion, guys. In my opinion, composition and arrangement are equal, and thus arrangement should deserve equal credit... although it rarely gets it.Interesting point, which I partially share. Generally, popular music's essentially oblivious about the importance of arrangements, while classical and jazz gives the deserved consideration to them (and more to the point, to the creative force behind). |
Bobby_brown 17.07.2007 10:02 |
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> Very interesting discussion, guys. In my opinion, composition and arrangement are equal, and thus arrangement should deserve equal credit... although it rarely gets it.Touché!! Exactlly my opinion. If people don´t guive credit, that doesn´t mean it´s ok. I understand that people often see arrangement as "put some cloths on the body". The chords are already there, so the arranger only has to add some instruments here and there! Well, in some cases i agree ; ) but when the arrangement elevates the song to another level, then i think that a co-credit wouldn´t harm. Examples: Michael Kamen on "Who wants to live forever"; George Martin on some of the Beatles stuff; Freddie Mercury on Radio GaGA (when i hear this song and compare it to "Love Kills" i wonder how much of the music and song structure is really Roger´s- and without Freddie this would probably be just another Queen song); Now, then there are cases when i think it´s insultuous to have royalties (because that´s what were´re really talking about). And the number one slot goes to : Sting on "Money for Nothing" by Dire Starits. Well, Sting only sanged a few words. He didn´t write nothing, and Still his publishing company insisted on co-writing credits (50% ??-need confirmation here). Well, at least Sting was embarassed (yeah, right!): link Take care |
Sebastian 17.07.2007 14:18 |
> but when the arrangement elevates the song to another level, then i think that a co-credit wouldn´t harm. Same thing with performance for that matter. What I think is that each song should have "music by ..., lyrics by ... arrangement by ...". > George Martin on some of the Beatles stuff; Over half actually :) Listen to 'Yesterday' by Boys II Men: nearly 80% is new! Yet the song is still McCartney's. Or the much cited 'Knocking' by GnR (or by many others). Otoh, many hip-hop artists give credit to anybody who's contributed with anything. Quite a different philosophy. |
August R. 17.07.2007 15:53 |
Sebastian wrote: > What I think is that each song should have "music by ..., lyrics by ... arrangement by ...".Funny you said that 'cos this is exactly how things are up here in Finland. I can't remember I've ever seen a Finnish album that doesn't give credits to the arranger(s). So, maybe it's a cultural difference, different tradition on giving credits... or maybe it's got something to do with fact that we have relatively small domestic markets up here... dunno really. But I've always wondered about that... |
Sebastian 17.07.2007 16:53 |
Celine Dion's 'Falling Into You' (one of the few albums that I actually bought instead of downloading) does credit the arranger for each track too. As far as I remember, 'Thriller' credits the arrangers too ... at least regarding vocals. For some extent Queen did it too, but on a more general basis. It'd have been nice if they specified, for instance "this song was written by Brian but Roger defined the tempo, Freddie came up with the bass line and John mixed it", but certainly it didn't matter to them as much as it does to us. |