| Dan C. 20.05.2007 09:14 |
link |
| magicalfreddiemercury 20.05.2007 09:40 |
Dan Corson VI: Son of Altered Beast wrote: linkIt's beyond appalling. I was stunned when they showed the video of this on the news. Stunned. That poor girl. I can't imagine the terror she must have felt. And those pricks around her just watching, police included. Some say it's their culture and yet so many from that culture are outraged by this. Not enough, apparently, since they allowed that girl to be murdered. Horrible. |
| AspiringPhilosophe 20.05.2007 10:00 |
It is absolutely appalling. Unfortunately, these "Honor Killings" are not unheard of in the Middle East, though they are not exactly common. I know there are several efforts by women's groups to combat this problem, but there is limited success due to limited access. They often occur in small villages, and the elders of the village will not let anyone from a female-related organization in, and any attempt to help by a more neutral group is circumvented by the elders. Many people it is simply the Islamic religion, which is the not the case. Islam is actually more pro-woman than the Bible is, if you actually read it and compare the two. It's the interpretation that f*s up the situation. Christianity went through the same type of thing, about 800 years ago. Islam is simply at the stage that Christianity and Judaism have already been through in the past...how to cope with a modern world around you. This, however, is appalling and disgusting and cruel. Unfortunately, nothing is likely to be done about it. |
| Janet 20.05.2007 13:21 |
I don't even know what to say. Just awful :-( |
| KillerQueen840 20.05.2007 16:04 |
Thousands of these happen each year... Great world we live in. |
| YourValentine 21.05.2007 03:41 |
Hundreds of thousands of women are abused, raped, killed and deprived of the most basic rights all over the world. Millions of women are property of their husbands or male relatives with no right of self determination. Thousands of women are subject to Female Genital Mutilation each day (over a million women each year), so called honor killings happen everywhere. Even in Europe Turkish and Arabic families execute so called honor killings - of course the killers are convicted for murder in Europe. We may feel helpless but we can do our share to stop this incredible violence by joining help organisations, donating money and raisinge our voices. link is a good start - you don't need to become a member or donate money, just suscribe to the email notification for campaigns. |
| Micrówave 21.05.2007 12:23 |
YourValentine wrote: ...we can do our share to stop this incredible violence by joining help organisations, donating money and raisinge our voices.This really does nothing except fund political organizations with an agenda and clog your email. It's really up to the citizens of each country to put an end to their horrific acts. If they don't care, well, my money isn't going there. AI is a multi-million dollar organization. But besides throwing great concerts and a website that shows nearly every country doing terrible things, what exactly has it succeeded in? They didn't get Pinochet to do anything, and he was one of their top targets in the 90s. Donating a hour of your time volunteering at a women's shelter or a soup kitchen would be much more productive, but no one really wants to see the problem face to face. They'd rather send a check and pat themselves on the back for helping out... then using the deduction when filing their taxes. |
| magicalfreddiemercury 21.05.2007 14:14 |
Micrówave wrote: This really does nothing except fund political organizations with an agenda and clog your email. It's really up to the citizens of each country to put an end to their horrific acts. If they don't care, well, my money isn't going there. AI is a multi-million dollar organization. But besides throwing great concerts and a website that shows nearly every country doing terrible things, what exactly has it succeeded in? They didn't get Pinochet to do anything, and he was one of their top targets in the 90s. Donating a hour of your time volunteering at a women's shelter or a soup kitchen would be much more productive, but no one really wants to see the problem face to face. They'd rather send a check and pat themselves on the back for helping out... then using the deduction when filing their taxes.I agree that getting personally involved is the best way to help out. It works on so many levels. It's nearly impossible to know the extent of the abuses out there unless you experience them or the results of them directly. That experience will/should bring about an awareness that makes it unacceptable. However, a few volunteers at a women's shelter, for example, won't be enough. The husband/boyfriend she's hiding from will eventually find her. That is unless there is a wider support group out there ready to protect her. So, sending in that check really does help. And being part of an organization that distributes information helps also. Every little bit that brings attention to these things helps in some way. It's not the answer, but I wouldn't discount it completely. YourValentine wrote: We may feel helpless but we can do our share to stop this incredible violence by joining help organisations, donating money and raisinge our voices. link is a good start - you don't need to become a member or donate money, just suscribe to the email notification for campaigns.I just subscribed to their emails, YourValentine. Thanks for the link. |
| YourValentine 22.05.2007 03:43 |
"Donating a hour of your time volunteering at a women's shelter or a soup kitchen would be much more productive, but no one really wants to see the problem face to face. They'd rather send a check and pat themselves on the back for helping out... then using the deduction when filing their taxes" How do you know? Certainly you are not involved with any human rights organisation. It's cheap to badmouth people who do get involved. In my experience people who are members in human rights and other social organisations are also the ones who help out themselves and give their time. |
| Sweetie 22.05.2007 03:59 |
Dreadful why does everyone write so much? I can never get past the first sentence... |
| Micrówave 22.05.2007 13:23 |
YourValentine wrote: How do you know? Certainly you are not involved with any human rights organisation. It's cheap to badmouth people who do get involved. In my experience people who are members in human rights and other social organisations are also the ones who help out themselves and give their time.No, Barb, I don't belong to AI, which you are schilling for. Calm down. Nothing cheap about anything here. You're mad because I'm right. Please explain how your check has provided relief? You can't. I however am involved EVERY thanksgiving at St. Vincent's Kitchen serving meals to homeless people. I don't do it to make myself feel better, I do it because I have so much compared to them. What's one day? But you telling people to sign up for emails because that will help women around the world? Please! Also remember that A.I. doesn't think the Isreal/Palestine conflict is that big of a deal. And that's a fact. Everyone has an agenda. |
| user name 22.05.2007 14:29 |
He's right, insofar as that just about every organization has its own agenda, and you never know how your money is really spent. It's a kind gesture, but he's right that it's a flawed one. |
| thomasquinn 32989 22.05.2007 14:38 |
Micrówave wrote:They do much more than you might think. Why don't you read their monthly magazine just once, it'll give you a good view on what they do.YourValentine wrote: ...we can do our share to stop this incredible violence by joining help organisations, donating money and raisinge our voices.This really does nothing except fund political organizations with an agenda and clog your email. It's really up to the citizens of each country to put an end to their horrific acts. If they don't care, well, my money isn't going there. AI is a multi-million dollar organization. But besides throwing great concerts and a website that shows nearly every country doing terrible things, what exactly has it succeeded in? They didn't get Pinochet to do anything, and he was one of their top targets in the 90s. Donating a hour of your time volunteering at a women's shelter or a soup kitchen would be much more productive, but no one really wants to see the problem face to face. They'd rather send a check and pat themselves on the back for helping out... then using the deduction when filing their taxes. And be grateful I'm so polite; assholes don't usually receive that courtesy off me. |
| thomasquinn 32989 22.05.2007 14:41 |
<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: He's right, insofar as that just about every organization has its own agenda, and you never know how your money is really spent. It's a kind gesture, but he's right that it's a flawed one.Only if you are totally oblivious, in your extremely negative view of humanity, of the way Amnesty operates, and the fact that it is not run by heartless managers, but by highly engaged idealists. |
| YourValentine 22.05.2007 15:17 |
"Also remember that A.I. doesn't think the Isreal/Palestine conflict is that big of a deal. And that's a fact." A fact? why do they issue reports about the region each year? I am not campaigning for ai, it was just an example. It does not matter where you get involved as long as you do get involved. However, you should get more information before insulting thousands of people who really make a difference. |
| Micrówave 22.05.2007 17:39 |
Ok Thomas A Hole and Barb, then explain this: human rights NGOs, such as HRW, Amnesty International, the International Commission of Jurists, etc., should have been very aware of the scale of these human rights violations in Sudan. Yet, as Prof. Don Habibi has noted, "despite the scale, scope, and duration of this genocide, it was never a priority on the agendas of AI, HRW or the UN." Amnesty International, the "world's largest private human rights organization," and possibly its most prolific, managed to produce a total of 7 reports on Sudan during this time period (March 7, 2001 to October 13, 2001). 5 of those reports addressed the arrest and imprisonment of specific human rights lawyers. One mentioned the massive human rights violations being committed by the Sudanese military and allied forces. However, this report was not addressed to the government in Khartoum, the Arab League, or the UN, but to the Canadian oil company, Talisman Energy. And besides, Thomas, I really could care less what a little child like you has to say. You shouldn't be allowed to be on the same website as someone with a keen mind as Barbara. |
| Micrówave 22.05.2007 18:41 |
<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: Why don't you read their monthly magazine just onceYou can read? It must have pictures on every page or big words for you to understand it. |
| YourValentine 22.05.2007 20:17 |
I don't quite understand the criticism that the ai report AI Index AFR 54/010/2001 was adressed to Talisman Energy and not the government in Sudan. It was meant to raise the concern and awarenes of Talisman Energy - of course it was adressed to them. The Sudan has been on the priority list and still is. Visit the American website and check under "our issues". No matter which problem or issue you address - there is always someone who tells you that there are other problems and issues which deserve your attention just as well. With regard to human rights issues there are always lots of problems and issues in our own countries - so why don't we clean up at home before we meddle into the business of other nations and cultures? The answer is: it makes a bigger impression when the criticism comes from outside your county, I have seen this in many cases in my own country because we have human rights violations, too. Certainly, a lot of mistakes are made in a big organisation like ai but it's independent and non-ideological. It's still better to get involved and help avoiding mistakes because an individual does not make that much noise and does not have any power to make the difference. A big organisation does not always speak with "one voice", either because people have very different backgrounds and opinions. |
| user name 22.05.2007 21:28 |
<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote:And I'm sure Enron was run by proponents of corporate social responsibility. Give any organization money, power, or resources and it will be abused - regardless who is running it.<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: He's right, insofar as that just about every organization has its own agenda, and you never know how your money is really spent. It's a kind gesture, but he's right that it's a flawed one.Only if you are totally oblivious, in your extremely negative view of humanity, of the way Amnesty operates, and the fact that it is not run by heartless managers, but by highly engaged idealists. |
| AspiringPhilosophe 22.05.2007 21:40 |
I admire some things that AI does...just like I admire some things the Red Cross and Doctors Without Boarders do. But MusicMan is right. People are more than willing to donate money to a cause...as Microwave said, it's easier to write a check than to get personally involved. But get enough money together and.... well, everyone has their price. |
| YourValentine 22.05.2007 22:36 |
What you choose to ignore is: ai is not some centralistic superorganisation: there are pretty small local sections who decide about the campaigns they want to start or to support. Very often the local sections focus on very few selected issues and only support other campaigns by sending emails or letters etc. However: you can always find something wrong in any useful organization but it does not change when you just find the fault and shrug your shoulders. ai members at least try to the best of their knowledge to fight injustice and human rights violation. Doing nothing makes it so much easier for dictators, killers in office and other criminal elements in power to commit their crimes. |
| thomasquinn 32989 26.05.2007 09:02 |
Microwave is giving you nothing more than a bullshit speech on re-introducing social-darwinism and fascism. Music Man has a point, but is overly cynical about it...which is the main ailment of the right: they do not believe in *any* systematic good residing in mankind. |
| user name 26.05.2007 19:09 |
I admit I'm cynical. Usually cynicism presents itself in one's later life, but it seems to have advanced rapidly upon me. But for the last time, TQ, I'm not a conservative except when it comes to strictly financial and economical matters. |
| deleted user 26.05.2007 19:44 |
That is so disturbing :/ |