| The Real Wizard 25.04.2007 10:54 |
link Discuss. |
| Boy Thomas Raker 25.04.2007 11:04 |
I've been following this story, and any cover up, in any country by people in authoritarian positions is absolutely shameful. It's no wonder that respect for leadership is fading by the day. |
| Mr.Jingles 25.04.2007 11:59 |
That's quite odd considering that the our government NEVER EVER fabricates stories. |
| sparrow 21754 25.04.2007 12:02 |
Mr.Jingles wrote: That's quite odd considering that the our government NEVER EVER fabricates stories.XD |
| JoxerTheDeityPirate 25.04.2007 14:37 |
strange how it gets the hollywood treatment before it gets the hollywood treatment |
| user name 25.04.2007 15:07 |
mp_friendlyfire 0 |
| Micrówave 25.04.2007 19:05 |
Here I go, being abrasive and over-the-top. We've known about this for a while now. It is a shame, but really, what difference does it make now? He's dead. He was killed by friendly fire. He's not the first, won't be the last. The military wanted to continue on the "hero" story, so when he died a decision was made. Say he was killed defending his country. Still, though, what do you say? Sorry? A squad from Canada was killed by friendly fire also. The minute the media gets involved with wars, bad things begin to happen. I would rather have left it as "he was killed in an operation." Even our enemies die a very mercilous death. There's no pretty way to paint it. But I suppose people thinking a military cover up is evil live in a country that has no military secrets. Maybe we should publish blueprints of all our weaponry to make it a more level playing field. |
| Haystacks Calhoun II 25.04.2007 19:12 |
Micrówave wrote: Here I go, being abrasive and over-the-top. We've known about this for a while now. It is a shame, but really, what difference does it make now? He's dead. He was killed by friendly fire. He's not the first, won't be the last. The military wanted to continue on the "hero" story, so when he died a decision was made. Say he was killed defending his country. Still, though, what do you say? Sorry? A squad from Canada was killed by friendly fire also. The minute the media gets involved with wars, bad things begin to happen. I would rather have left it as "he was killed in an operation." Even our enemies die a very mercilous death. There's no pretty way to paint it. But I suppose people thinking a military cover up is evil live in a country that has no military secrets. Maybe we should publish blueprints of all our weaponry to make it a more level playing field.Didn't we already sell secrets to China? I agree here. This has been known for years, old news.... |
| john bodega 25.04.2007 21:36 |
Shows you how fucked up the military is on an administrative level. I never question the individual bravery of people who sign up to get shot at for a living, but as my sincerely fucked-over cousin could tell you, the military couldn't care less about the 'little people'. Our only casualty in Iraq so far (I think?) was a guy who got shot by his own gun. Even though they had the decorum not to write a story about how he was gunned down by a vampire (to make things more dramatic), the matter was still handled in a matter not befitting an institution that's supposed to defend the country. Talk about a white wash.... |
| Boy Thomas Raker 25.04.2007 22:49 |
Microwave, Haystacks Calhounski, long time no political debate.! WTF, I'm wasting my breath here, and I've already stated this has nothing to do with America, and everything to do with abuse of power, but HOLY FUCK!!! You guys will die to defend your rights to bear arms, but don't give a shit if the government tramples all over every right that a man defending his country has earned? One of the great "we need guns" defences many American's make is they mistrust government owning all the guns. So people don't trust their government enough to give up their arms, but hey, if they want to lie about a soldier's death, that's cool, we trust their hearts are in the right place, greater good, collateral damage etc. This has nothing to do with media, or America, it's about your expectations from people in authority, and leadership. The people who asked Pat Tillman to lay down his life for his country, basically shit down his throat, pissed on his grave and told his family to go fuck themselves. I know you two are patriots, but, God forbid, if you are ever killed I'd hope your families would learn the truth, not have the police, or church, or government lie to them to cover their asses. Shit like this leads to a slippery slope for citizens. When an American agent comes to your door to seize your handguns as they've monitored your e-mails about gun control on QZ, I hope you'll accept their abuse of power graciously. |
| YourValentine 26.04.2007 03:03 |
Great post, Thomas Roy Baker. If it does not make a difference if a government lies about the death of soldiers for propaganda reasons I wonder why the family of the victim is so hurt and upset now. |
| The Mir@cle 26.04.2007 04:53 |
YourValentine wrote: Great post, Thomas Roy Baker. If it does not make a difference if a government lies about the death of soldiers for propaganda reasons I wonder why the family of the victim is so hurt and upset now.Well.. lemme say three words... GOD BLESS AMERICA!!! |
| Boy Thomas Raker 26.04.2007 08:08 |
Your Valentine, I believe that the hearing into Pat Tillman's death is happening as we speak, and more and more information is being released that shows the levels that the US Army went to cover up his cause of death, which is why the family is getting progressively more upset. In an April 20 Associated Press wire story, it states "within hours of Pat Tillman's death, the Army went into information-lockdown mode, cutting off phone and Internet connections at a base in Afghanistan, posting guards on a wounded platoon mate, and ordering a sergeant to burn Tillman's uniform." I understand that accidents happen in war, but the government basically withheld the truth from the family for 5 weeks. Pat Tillman's commanding officers, men he looked to for guidance and judgment, all spun a false story (during a bad news week for the government re: the war in Iraq and Afghanistan) about the ultimate American hero who gave up millions of dollars and fame only to die at the hands of terrorists while serving his country. This story was a lot more palatable than saying he was shot by his own troops, so the powers that be lied and stonewalled to protect themselves, to hell with his memory or his family. That's disgraceful. |
| The Mir@cle 26.04.2007 08:17 |
The whole war is based on lies... It doesn't surprise me! |
| The Mir@cle 26.04.2007 08:17 |
dbl post |
| magicalfreddiemercury 26.04.2007 08:58 |
Boy Thomas Raker wrote: Pat Tillman's commanding officers, men he looked to for guidance and judgment, all spun a false story (during a bad news week for the government re: the war in Iraq and Afghanistan) about the ultimate American hero who gave up millions of dollars and fame only to die at the hands of terrorists while serving his country. This story was a lot more palatable than saying he was shot by his own troops, so the powers that be lied and stonewalled to protect themselves, to hell with his memory or his family. That's disgraceful.It is disgraceful - what they did with Tillman's story as well as with Jessica Lynch's story. After she was rescued, people wanted to know 'what happened to her' and the country was fed only bits and pieces - just enough to make us sick about what might have been done to this young female soldier. Then we were told further details couldn’t be released because she had amnesia. Her father, soon after, clearly stated she in fact did not have amnesia. She spoke out right after (before?) Kevin Tillman at the hearing. Both tales were articulate and emotional. In Jessica Lynch’s testimony, she said they didn't have to try to make her into a hero since there were already heroes to talk about. Those heroes were the people with her who all perished. It seems we were lied to because the powers that be thought the American people needed to identify with those giving their lives for the cause. Public opinion was already waning. What better way to join us together as one than to tell us about a lovely young all-American girl in enemy hands? Or about a man of integrity who gave up millions to fight for our country? Surely, after hearing what the 'enemy' did to these exceptional people, American's would pump their fists in the air and demand justice. We'd reverse our stance on the war so quickly we'd suffer whiplash. If we learned Lynch's weapon jammed before she got off a shot or that Tillman was killed by friendly fire, we would have further despaired at the war results thus far and pulled yet more of our support. Calling us unpatriotic wasn't enough to get us to say we supported the war, so they painted a 'romantic' war story for us figuring that falsehood, that trickery, would be enough to change the collective opinion... as if the opinion of the American people mattered in the least. Here's what I thought was a powerful piece by Kevin Tillman, written in October of '06 - link |
| Micrówave 26.04.2007 16:59 |
Propaganda. Nothing new to the world. How do you think Germany convinced it's citizens that Jews were evil and need to be controlled? I'm a big fan of the NFL and everyone who is followed this story from his imployment. This is a sad story, but as a fairly intellegent human being who knows a little about human history, it's nothing that hasn't happened before. If you looked into military records of all Armies since the dawn of time, you'd find some pretty sick stuff. But I do know one thing. And this is because I have an actual cassette tape that was brought back from the Desert Storm days. Arab children listen to recorded lies about The West. Not just the US, but all Western civilizations. About how we kill arabian children for sport. Enslave them in our countries. Again, some pretty sick stuff. And they play it over and over and over. So, with all that said, what's the point of this thread? Yes, it's truly sad that we tried to paint Tillman as a hero who died defending his beliefs. (Remember this millionaire enlisted!!!) But in reality, that's exactly what happened. It's just in this day and age we want all the bloody details. Pat Tillman wasn't the first soldier this has happened to. He simply was the highest profile in that category. If the Tillman family was told the true nature of his death, would that make it any easier on them? The reason it's painful now for them is because WE WON'T LET HIM DIE. We want to hold someone accountable. You think it's any easier for the soldier who accidently killed his brother in the confusion of war? After reading that Kevin Tillman article, I feel sorry for Kevin Tillman, because he is one sorry individual. His brother's death has consumed him. From day 1, there was doubt on the legitimacy of this invasion, yet he went. Had his brother not died, that letter would never even be in his mind. Glad he's not defending my country anymore. Also remember the reports about how abusive the Tillmans were to their fellow soldiers. One article even suggested this was payback. |
| The Real Wizard 27.04.2007 02:44 |
Boy Thomas Raker wrote: Microwave, Haystacks Calhounski, long time no political debate.! WTF, I'm wasting my breath here, and I've already stated this has nothing to do with America, and everything to do with abuse of power, but HOLY FUCK!!! You guys will die to defend your rights to bear arms, but don't give a shit if the government tramples all over every right that a man defending his country has earned? One of the great "we need guns" defences many American's make is they mistrust government owning all the guns. So people don't trust their government enough to give up their arms, but hey, if they want to lie about a soldier's death, that's cool, we trust their hearts are in the right place, greater good, collateral damage etc. This has nothing to do with media, or America, it's about your expectations from people in authority, and leadership. The people who asked Pat Tillman to lay down his life for his country, basically shit down his throat, pissed on his grave and told his family to go fuck themselves. I know you two are patriots, but, God forbid, if you are ever killed I'd hope your families would learn the truth, not have the police, or church, or government lie to them to cover their asses. Shit like this leads to a slippery slope for citizens. When an American agent comes to your door to seize your handguns as they've monitored your e-mails about gun control on QZ, I hope you'll accept their abuse of power graciously.Fantastic post. magicalfreddiemercury wrote: Here's what I thought was a powerful piece by Kevin Tillman, written in October of '06 - link^ Equally fantastic. |
| thomasquinn 32989 27.04.2007 07:47 |
Lies, fabrications and misinformation. Can that honestly surprise anyone? I mean, ever since the Bush-administration decided it'd be fun to bomb Kabul, we've had more of that than we've had hot dinners! |